Give me guys like Mangini, Portnoy, and Carey. Have seen and heard them do drum clinics where all you can hear are the real drums and surprise surprise - it sounds just like everything on every album they have ever done. This shitshow of "i can play 400bpm singles/doubles" is just a dick measuring contest for people who can't make music worth listening to.
I'd hate to burst your bubble. But i can't find any mic recorded examples of any of these, lol. In the last 40 years, I've found 2 drummers who are 100% mic recorded with zero sound additions, sample blends, sample replacement, etc. Chris Turner and Alex Lopez. There was a 3rd, Chris Adler, but they actually added a random sound to his snare.. but just the snare. Every other drummer may have an album that's mic recorded, but they havent been consistently mic recorded.
I'm not a metal guy, but I get a very good drum sound recording in my basement using very consumer-grade stuff -- Focusrite Clarett, decent (but not expensive/vintage) mics, etc. I get the triggering for really fast double-kick stuff, so I'm not knocking that. But aside from that... it's not THAT hard to get a good drum sound without samples, and I am nowhere near a professional. People are just lazy nowadays, and this epidemic of "everything I record has to be PERFECT" is sucking the soul out of a lot of modern music.
@@robertfoshizzle yeah, totally possible. But you also need to start with a good sounding drum, and some of the shit I've seen people want to record... SMH. It's never going to sound good if the heads are old, filthy, and covered with dents and tape. I've also known so many drummers who don't know how to tune the drums. It's annoying to do, sure... But it's essential.
@@soundman1402 For sure, if you're a professional mixer and a band sends you garbage multi-tracks, there's only so much you can do. If the performance, tuning, and recording quality are all bad, there is no choice but to sample replace. It's sad though that should ever need to happen with a band that's serious enough about their music to pay someone to mix them. I've been around other drummers in our music scene that play on kits that sound like dog ass because they refuse to spend a few bucks on new heads or learn how to tune -- or even what a well-tuned drum sounds like. I understand not everyone is rich and can afford a high-end drum set and fresh heads every month. But even when I was a broke college kid playing in bands, I made sure my drums didn't sound like crap.
The issue with the #ArchspireAuditon is that the band specifically had guidelines for it, and people still did post-production quantizations and edits. Doing edits for production is one thing, but lying on your application and audition is completely different.
Sonically it sounds fake, kick drums are like someone with a bad case of explosive diarrhea, is quite monotonous, and unoriginal; all because they are afraid of creativity. Then these amateur bands whine & cry because their "songs" are not bringing them fame, fortune, and hordes of fans. Well because they are generic, not the band of all bands they claim to be, and no different than the hundreds of others doing the same thing. Besides that, they cannot play their stuff accurately in a live setting.
I don't care if people use real drums or samples. If they play them live or program them. It makes no difference to me if they sound good. I get so sick of the elitism. Claiming they are live when they are not is another matter. If it sounds good, then great. If I want to hear live music I will buy a live recording or go and watch them live.
Q: How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb? A: Four. One to change the light bulb & the other three to tell him how much better Neil Peart would have done it.
As a singer who doesn't use Auto-Tune I feel this. I absolutely can't believe how many metal acts use autotune, and the consumers can't tell the difference. They absolutely don't know when somebody's using subtle Auto-Tune, but they will complain to fuck if you ain't perfect.
Almost as if this elitist attitude towards "pure" music doesn't matter and people just want to listen to something that sounds good. The 80s thrived on drum machines. I'd rather my voice be in tune than not. No one cares if you dig a long deep ditch with a shovel in 10 hours when you could've got an excavator for 10 minutes. CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY DON"T VALUE HARD WORD AND EXPERIENCE?? At the end of the day most people won't notice or care. Folks only care about the end product. Just make music and get over yourself.
My dad is a jazz drummer with over 60 years experience under his belt, and the fake drum crap makes him cringe and laugh. Just sayin'. Rock on, Glenn:)
This is starting to become a series with a repeating plot, like that of Power Rangers: - A video is published stating a strict, one-sided opinion on something, so it's potentially polarising. - Comments get predictably outraged at the strictness and one-sidedness of the statement. - A follow-up video is published stating «you got it wrong». - Comments dissing previous video's commenters bloom like it's spring again. - If there's enough drama, more videos on the topic can be made, like with the Gibson series. According to communication theory, when the receiver gets the wrong message the problem is with the sender.
It's like it was planned that way to generate more content. ;) And this is not meant to be a disparagement at all! I think it's a great idea. We all want more and more content, and sometimes the ideas just don't flow, so this is a good way to stretch a concept into multiple vids. If I had any charisma or ideas or any video editing ability at all, I'd probably put out content this way. But that also requires a lot of followers, which I also don't have (see above about lack of charisma). So Glenn's earned the right to stretch an idea into a series using crowd-sourced content, IMO.
@@soundman1402 He definitely has the right! And others have the right to bitch about it, haha. What I really don't like is he shows author names. That's public shaming. Any other channel I follow showing comments remove the name of the author, even when it's hate.
Any argument that states "It's just the way it's done" makes me instantly loose respect for someone. That's just telling me that you're lazy, take shortcuts and not someone that I'd want to work with. Just because "it's the way it's done" doesn't make it right or better; just means someone doesn't know how to think outside the box or is too lazy to.
Yep... The same excuses used for why so many modern rock albums are brickwal limited within an inch of their lives. Drums and bass suffer first and then if the limiting is really extreme the guitars even start sounding like sausage.
Agreed 100%. Sample replacing all drums by default is lazy and boring. I have no problem with people using sample enhancement/replacement for creative effects, or when you have a problematic drum that you don't have the time/ability to re-record in an otherwise great take. But if you decide before you even hit record that you're going to sample replace everything, what are you really learning, if anything, about mic placement, tuning, etc.? People just want to take the shortcut to get "acceptable" sounding results instead of learning how to record and create unique drum sounds without using the same damn samples everyone in the "industry" uses.
How do you feel about Metallica recording master of puppets on down tuned guitars and then speeding the recording up to get the album tempo? How do you feel about megadeath using drum samples on almost all their albums to pad the drums? Since compression and distortion give a false sense of dynamic consistency is that cheating? Is cutting and pasting different takes together to create a track cheating? Why are triggers any different?
This debate is so one-sided that even my idiotic bass player brain can see just how utterly incorrect drummers are being about this sample/trigger topic. If it's a sample, it's not a real drum, and therefore cheating! Now... where did I put my bong, again?
I happened to catch up belatedly with one of your efforts about ‘tone wood’ which was hilarious and it got me thinking if P.T. Barnum had been around today he would have gone straight into the ‘Vintage’ electric guitar market.
Hope its going well! I started doing the same because of him years ago and had to take some time (i took 2 years just to be solidified in it) to relearn how to play the drums because i found out how bad i was. Timing was fine, but every other aspect of my playing was atrocious. Dont give up. it's completely worth it. If you haven't already, check out Sound Radix drumleveler (Glenn has a video about it) or the one i have, MeldaProductions mdrumleveler. They are extremely helpful
@@SpectreSoundStudiosabsolutely. It’s time for metal drums to evolve. Maybe wood, hoops and skins aren’t appropriate for speed anymore. My question is what medium could be used to get “typewriter” but naturally hit & mic-able. Aluminum? Ceramic? Probably a convo for 40 years from now 😅. Appreciate you & the team Mr. Fricker 🤘
As a classical musician, hiring a percussion section to do metal is probably a bad idea. Orchestral bass drums are so much bigger and just can't play that quickly, and if you put any of them on a kit to play, they're likely going to be worse than your average metal drummer. They'd need a rehearsal or so to make sure everything happens at the right time. However, if you want anything mallet related, bells, and giant cymbal related sounds, they've got that in their bag for you every day while half asleep. Now, if you get a bunch of half-decent metal drummers together that've had some band class experience, you'd probably have a semi-decent chance of getting a metal percussion ensemble together!
@@metalinyourhead3604 i like me some technical drumming here and there, but i'd rather hear something that someone could actually play live if their drum module goes down haha
For sure speed doesn't necessarily mean technical, and honestly i don't give a shit if it's just a great song. I don't honestly think samples (even augmentation) makes drums sound better in any setting. Natural drums can be made to sound awesome if someone knows what they are doing. If one is bothering to mic up drums, they should leave all the nuance in and mix/compress/automate to bring it up a bit if need be. Even a shitty drummer just needs some time alignment and heavy compression, let the mix mask the subtle bleed and anomalies
I'm a washed up never was, what's he mean? I got fanboy attacked in the comments on that video because I dared to suggest a real drummer doesn't need triggers to perform.
For the comment about converting wav files to pro tools. Technically you don't have to wav files will work just fine. Back when I had my studio with protools (7/8 era) if you were using protools on a Mac you would want to convert to sd2 files. At the time wav files couldn't be quantized to the grid. I can't quite remember but I think when you loaded a session with wav it would ask if you wanted to convert.
Talking about mix perspective for drummers recently. I always mix from the drummer's perspective, but I'm a lefty and play with the kit backwards so I end up mixing from a typically audience perspective. Does my head hurt because I'm thinking about it so hard and drummers aren't typically supposed to think?
They're certainly easier to play. I had Ernie Ball Not Even Slinky 12's for the longest time and I just *dreaded* bending that 3rd string. I went to the Magnum set after they were released and I've been so happy to *ahem* "touch my g string"
1:24 Here’s the thing. I’ve seen metal bands use triggers live before. Not to fake the drumming, but to better dial in the kick drum sound so that it’s really nice and crisp. You can’t do that with an actual kick drum. The actual playing however is not fake at all. The drummer still has to do the work.
velocity of hits IS part of drumming though... If a drummer has a constant feather touch because they're used to samples then they won't be any good if you take those samples off.
@@placeholder739they don’t have a constant feather touch though. That’s an exaggeration. There’s tons of great extreme metal drummers hitting real hard. You just need triggers on the kicks to make it sound pleasing in a live show environment
as a drummer i never play triggered. isnt it wayyy more fun to put like 3 mics on a bass drum anyway?? also i actually play with dynamics so its nice to be able to pick up on that in the recording.
If I had to choose between Scott Columbus (RIP) and Thomas Lang for my record, I would go for Scott any time. Thomas Lang is so perfect that he is lifeless. Just an example.
I recently listened to the Imperial edition of Hail To England paying particular attention to Scott Columbus' drumming. He had a unique sometimes sparse approach that I'd never fully appreciated. Definitely a one off.
I’m really of two minds about it - I think that sampling in particular is fine in a vacuum because it is much quicker and easier to “record” good-sounding drums on a shoestring budget using them. If you are a new young band or can’t afford studio time for other reasons, but have access to an e-kit or triggers, it’s a great way for your drums to not sound like complete dog shit, especially with how comparatively cheap and easy it is to record vocals, guitars, etc with good results. However, properly recorded real drums are ALWAYS going to sound better to my ears and people should always be honest with their audience.
All the more reason why I don’t regret getting into electronic music production, I can play instruments, compose, arrange, mix and master on my own time and not worry about the elitism of what’s “real” and “fake”, that kind of thinking really holds back experimentation, I mean, it’s music, there aren’t really any “rules” just guide lines to achieve certain sounds, machines are overall better to work with than people lol
See this is where I disagree with Glenn. Like these drummer auditioning aren't pretending that these are the acoustic drums. They're trying to display how they can play the tracks right because the music that they are playing in the style they are playing is played with triggers. I've done sound for a quite notable black metal band who drummer took the kick drum away and replaced it with a kick trigger pad. There a bunch of bands the faster more extreme styles that I think are pushing how far you can push metal with either speed or sound by using triggers. I recently joined a band the music and sounds can't be created live with a 100% acoustic kit because a lot of the sounds are 100% synthetic and it's all over the place. There is only so much you can do with the traditional setup and there are bands out there trying to push beyond that. Most suck but some are golden
Ahah long live Glenn! Thanks man, really appreciate your input and sharing of all things music industry, recording, tips and tricks, so we don’t fuck it up as much or understand where we messed things up. Hope you get to 1M subs soon. Cheers from Portugal!
I mean it is a short step from fake drumming to realising that 90% of recorded music is actually changing everything up to create a synthetic soundscape of audio. Guitar cabs dont sound like that in the room if you close mic, bass doesnt sound like that through DIs, mics are just EQ filters..The difference is that the playing is often more real than some instagrammer triggering a sample of fills from a single trigger source. Maybe this lot need to discover Albini, Robinson etc, who tried to capture authentic takes at times.
The point of recorded music is to make it sound as good as possible for home listening, and have perfect version of the tracks. So yes, obviously, they are going to be meticulously edited. If you want to hear live performed music, then watch them perform live or buy a live recording.
@@EgoChip that is not the point I am making. The point I am making is we accept some dishonest sound, and many edits, its nuanced both with the studio and the listener. Even live acts are not true representations anyway, due to the use of modellers, DIs, PA systems and even autotune now.
5:59 We actually played a show with a band who did exactly that. Drums and some other instruments were sampled and two guy walked on stage. It was a bit bizzare, but why not.
Would love your opinion Glenn: Last album I made, we did bed tracks live off the floor with only 4 mics for the drums, so I used ableton to extract the UN-QUANTIZED midi data and augment, not replace, the kick and snare to help them be audible on crappy speakers/headphones. I don't consider it cheating, as the only thing I was compensating for was my lack of access to better/more mics. This time it's sample free, and I'm using reaper, because we have a lot more gear at our disposal
The only hypocrisy I see, as a bass player, is that you sell software instruments like Element Bass. Doesn’t bother me much, but it felt worth mentioning. Love your work, Glen. (I think Element sounds legitimately great, I am happy to put that on the record)
These are outside the metal sphere and more in the jazz/electronic realm but there are two very interesting TEDx Talks around the influence of the digital age on live music. The first one is Jojo Mayer's "Between 0 and 1" where he talks about how digitally created beats influenced his playing style but trying to replicate what a machine can do, while adding the human element of improvisation. The other one is Owen Biddle and Zach Danzinger talking about how they use triggers to play along with them instead of playing along to the pre-sampled triggers. It's not the "we need samples to play 300BPM" kind of thing, but if you're interested to see other ways digital music has influenced music/drumming I can't recommend them enough.
Remember its only "just noise" if you lack the ability to comprehend what's being played, if you worked on your listening skills and practiced your instruments more you'd be able to understand what was happening :)
corpo/salesman glenn is the most cursed content on this side of youtube... thanks for trying to help so many people with your experience man! appreciate your time
Ah well... Small apartment and my drums are kinda shit. I never lie about programming and I only program what I play, if even that tbh cuz it's so tedious and grueling. Id much rather just play if I could
Glen, engineers are part of the problem. Ten years ago all of them, at least those I had access to, didn't think twice about aligning everything to the grid, sample replacing and making their life easy. Nowadays there are a few, actually one that is around me, that is whiling to make that extra effort of working with a take of reasonably recorded acoustic drums. The rest will do just as before and If you ask them, then why even bother with live drums I may just send a midi file. They will say yeah that will be better. And I am not mentioning costs at this time.
There are videos of Spencer Prewitt (Archspire's previous drummer) playing some of their songs taken with phone camera audio. Pretty clear he doesn't *need* triggers or samples at all.
I absolutely oppose the use of triggers to compensate for what the instrument can't do. I agree it's completely fake. Whether or not the drummer still has to physically do something to trigger it is irrelevant, it is not the instrument making the sound. But I have much less problem with that than I do with ACTUAL cheating. Mainly because I can't pick on drummers for fake sounds while listening to a guitar run through 57 pedals that tweak the sound in unnatural ways. That smells a bit like a double standard.
On cross daw support! Just found out the newest version of Cubase supports other daws. Here's a quote from the product page on Sweetwater "Multi-DAW Support: Across manufacturers beyond Steinberg, Cubase Pro and Artist 14 support detailed project-data exchange across multiple DAWs" Love your show!
When Glenn reaches 1 million subscribers he'll put some content in between the Ads and 5 star reviews of free stuff he's been given. Remember, it's the big bad corporations who control the Ad frequency & placement. So I was told?
There's these OMF files or something that supposedly can be used for compatibility but I never got them to work. The thing is the goal of most companies is monopoly, so any efforts at giving a universal option are very much out of the question.
I was signed up for the "Fix the Mix" challenge. Those were interesting. On the first one, they replaced the shitty drums with..... slightly less shitty drum samples. First, I was amazed by how easily and carelessly they did it. Second, with that being so easy, I was thinking "Wow, it is too damn easy to change a whole drum kit", and then they started to have to fix timing. Might as well just reprogram and sequence it.... and they did that too. There's just little to no respect towards band-created music, which also seems tied to a lack of musicianship. Why not just let AI write the stuff and save us all the hassle?
People have been coming for the show and not the music for a long time. 90's techno had the wop wop bass in nearly every song and that's all anybody could hear at the clubs. I'm sure they just hear the fast drums while moshing.
Triggers, samples, backtracks, and to an extent MIDI are an issue for me. I can see how they're fun to play around with, but if you're making music with them, why not just add a keyboard player to your band instead? Keyboards have E-drum settings, they have orchestra sounds, miscellaneous spunds for whatever you need. It also won't be cheating, because someone is actually playing the keys to make it all happen and can add their own personal taste to it. Keyboards were metal enough for Children of Bodom, they're metal enough for me.
Friendly rant here with probably tons of grammatical errors - I honestly don't believe samples can be considered completely "someone else playing". The hits are yours, the timing (usually) is yours, the velocity of the hits are yours, it's just coming from a different kit. Someone else produces the sounds but YOU are still playing the grooves live and hopefully not being quantized. I admit though, they are a tool - not a replacement for an actual performance. Admittedly, I used to work for Steven Slate of Slate Drums/Slate Digital, I helped take his software down from being pirated. His sample library saved tons of my mixes to give bands a sound they wanted when their recordings weren't done up to snuff. Granted, I try hard to mix live drums because I prefer them, I do...but sometimes samples are used out of need (at least for me.) It is still someone's performance though on the foundation of it, is it not? Also - Steven's MIDI SSD plugin helped me so much as a disabled musician who, without a drummer, can write songs and release them. I don't like using it to remake a band's song for them when their drummer sucks, though, even if they ask. My profile has my own songs and songs I mixed from Spectre Academy, those ones I tried to mix the live drums without any samples. (I have to admit to blending sometimes.) I'm not a professional, I'm amateur, I suck sometimes because I lack proper monitors and shit, but...this is my take. I'm open to being wrong, I think it's opinion no matter what, but this is my take. If anyone wants to call me out, so to speak, just keep it civil?
Importing WAV files into Pro Tools is simple, as long as they're not little chunks of audio that need to be placed somewhere on the timeline other than the starting point.
I'm argumentative by nature, so when someone makes swathing points like you tend to do, I typically want to start the debate and try to defend the other side. But your takes on modern metal (in general) are so spot on to me, especially from a recording/production stand point. The fake drummers are just that, they are fake drummers. I watched that video and agree with your analysis of each of those drummers. Video idea for you, you should do a Beginner vs Professional drummer video. Have you play drums on a track, and have a professional drummer play the same track. Nothing fancy, even just a 4 on the floor kind of beat would work. Then compare how they sound with and without the use of samples. Because if there's anything I've learned in my years of recording drums, it's that the drummer is more important than almost anything when it comes to recording drums. Hell, have you play on the nicest kit you have, and have the professional drummer play on an entry level kit or something just to double down on the comparison. Beyond that, and I've felt this way since I first opened a DAW, the over perfection of music is flat out ruining music. I heard someone talk about the state of baseball, and why it seems like its not as fun to watch anymore, I forget who said it it but the quote is "The more we learn about winning, the more boring the product becomes." This was in reference to almost all MLB teams relying on analytics and "moneyball" strategies instead of developing an individual approach to the game. The same is said for many genres of music, the formula is there, and anyone can grab it. The catch 22 to the whole thing is, many musicians who are actually creative and talented songwriters or producers or performers are too afraid of all their work being picked apart by the 12 year olds in their parents' basement who think they heard a single off time note don't have the guts to put out honest music.
Man you really want to impress drummers. Just show them some of these live Japanese female drummers and make them feel bad about being outplayed by women live 😂. Love the content. Keep it up 👍
Just because something is a modern trend doesn’t mean it’s good. No, not all metal recordings were this way. One day in the future we may all be listening to this era and think “ wow, things back then all sound the same and terrible. It’s so dated”. That’s what trends do when everyone moves on.
Drums are the heartbeat to any band, the drums are supposed to be loud snd proud not muddied down just to give the singer the spotlight to stick out to an executive just cause they of all of a sudden have a "problem" with every bandmember and they their ego gets to their head. Notes should be taken from other great percussionists we had lost throughout time like John Bonham or Neil Peardt bands like Led Zeppelin and Rush they disbanded because there was respect and love
Yeah, but fast drumming with this type of genre just sounds like every other fast drumming of that drumming. There is no cowbell, no swing and drowned out cymbals.
@orlock20 Do it like Black Metal did they said fuck compression and throw in the cowbells, the 70s techniques, keep it less technical, defy the rules, you're not trying to impress the Swifties after all
8:07 NO NEVER PAY FOR file conversion. It was a thing in like 2004 but NO ONE charged for it. Pro Tools joined the rest of the Music world by using Wav/Aiff/CAF files in 2004. Before that a few DAWs used Sound Designer II SD2 files which were a mess and basically just proprietary nonsense. But once DAWs reached a Bit Depth of 24 Bits everyone switched to normal lossless files. The engineer was trying to scam you for more money, he probably has a drug habit or gambles LMAO!! Just export the files neatly for the studio you will be using for mixing or mastering. Export each track as the next engineer needs with or without plugins depending on you agreed too. Cheers!
I think that for playing metal with no triggers and samples you need extremely skilled people that can hit hard and with good note spacing, the human limit is around 200 - 220 bpm in my opinion.
I think guitarists is actually to blame about this "super speed triggers gravity blast" thing. Pirated Cubase 15 years ago, EzDrummer and progranmed some redicilous stuff, and the internet went like "WOAH". About the fake drummer thing, this is my view. If you quantize it and drops in a hit on a STUDIO RECORDING, it is fine. Many times it is the only solution due to schedules and money. But if you are like quantizing and dropping in stuff and claims to be a "playthrough one take" it is not cool. This is mostly about Lord Marco, and Lord Marco is a GREAT DRUMMER! But that he drops in and hits and quantizes his "life performances" is not fine. On the other hand, people that does this, and people who thinks it is 100% real, it will produce som freaks of nature like Alex Rüdinger and Chris Turner. People that are ON the grid, and you would not believe that it is 100% without samples
Completely agree on the DAW to DAW thing outside of Rewire it's just such a pain. Would be cool if someone even tried to team up with the major companies to make a software to like drag & drop the project file, Select what DAW you want to convert to and let it do it's thing.
I think we might be going back to old school. In the late 80's rock music was lots of beep-boop electronic stuff...... then Nirvana killed that stuff. It's a cycle, but I'd like to go back to organic music.
Hey Glenn! You've probably answered this a thousand times but I can't remember your stance off the top of my head. Is it better to go from a Line out directly into your DAW or would the best sound come from micing the amp instead? Thanks and fuck you my friend! Rock on! P.S. I have hit the subscribe button at least three times but I don't think it's helping. Also, love seeing "Nice Glenn" again. He should do a whole episode again some time. 🥸
8:07 in the start of their comment they said "wave files made from reaper" i'm assuming made = rendered. so they ARE talking about pure wave files there, which means the engineer was either lying or trying to rip them off. the rest of the comment is saying they did a background check on this engineer and found red flags which also counts towards this mastering engineer likely being a ripoff.
People who listen to music don't care if the drum is sample or not.. They care about if the songs good, and that's songwriting. Drum samples is not the problem, songwriting is.
Re Drum Samples. Even if we remove drum samples then we still rarely hear the true sound of the drum, we have to consider the room, the drum type including size and skin, the mics and mic placement, the electronics of the desk plus stuff like reverb, compression, EQ. Bonhams when the levee breaks. The drum kit did not sound like that in real life, it was because of drum kit placement, playing and the mics which captured that sound. If one had the skills and equipment you could record live drums and end up sounding like a sampled drum. Does it really matter to the end? I suspect not. Like I said even a live drum recording is going to be processed, compressed, get EQ'ed, close mike and room mic blended. The only person in my view to get real natural drums is steve albini RIP.
Regarding drum samples versus real drums: it usually boils down to one of two problems if not both, the drummer is too lazy to change their heads and tune their drums, or the engineer is too lazy to take the time to properly mic up a kit in the studio. There was a time when there was professionalism in this industry, but sadly that's going the way of the dodo...
I guess it's a style/genre thing, I love hiphop and I dont think theres anything wrong with samples, but when it comes to rock or metal NOTHING can really replace a real drummer playing real drums
i hate "sampled" drums. using a midi/sampled-drum virtual instrument is GREAT when you're not a drummer and you're alone and want to record an idea. Sampled drums do not sound good, even when pasted over a real drummer's performance. If you think they do, then you grew up after sampled drums were already a thing, and your initial life programming subconsciously says "I love my favorite bands that I grew up with...even though I found out years later that they used sampled drums...therefore I don't care"
well . I guess drive , chorus , delays and the like to get a better sound is guitarists cheating , aren't we just manipulating tones , , maybe amplification is too
In a sense, if you can't play your parts without triggering samples, you're a trigger player, not a drummer. Not a value judgement, just a clear distinction between the two... 🤷🏻
Show me a single "trigger player" who isn't also a drummer. I think your logic would follow to make the distinction that trigger playing is more a technique that is separate from traditional drumming, but the skill required to do so requires a base knowledge and mechanical skill for traditional drumming. It is like saying shredding really fast and musically on an electric isn't guitar playing, because you aren't strumming chords on an acoustic, or playing classical guitar. The distinctions are really down to technique and then how you feel about them is down to taste.
Here's a legit question...When doubling guitars and want to double again, what are the best results for panning when doubling left and right?Hard left,right and the second batch the same? Should eqing be slightly different for each take for more pro sounding?or not?
Samples are a different topic in my opinion. I myself dont like it and i think modern metal relys to much on them. Id personly love more accustic drums without triggers. That being said, a couple of the videos that got the hate have drummers putting in hits they never played in the first place and then claiming their take wasnt edited which is another level in my opinion. With triggers at least you still have to have the skill to play all the hits at the right time and if you miss a hit it wont trigger. Yeah sure, without triggers it would sound shit but at least you played every note and didnt just drop in the ones you missed in post
I’ll probably get hate but modern Metal Core probably just has the best drums in Metal. The album Tether by Of Mice and Men has my favorite drums. They just sound huge. My favorites are Indigo, Shiver, and Into the Sun. Tell me those drums don’t fuckin rule. They’re aren’t a dick measuring speed contest. They’re heavy, they go through your chest and give a great sense of time.
Give me guys like Mangini, Portnoy, and Carey. Have seen and heard them do drum clinics where all you can hear are the real drums and surprise surprise - it sounds just like everything on every album they have ever done. This shitshow of "i can play 400bpm singles/doubles" is just a dick measuring contest for people who can't make music worth listening to.
I'd hate to burst your bubble. But i can't find any mic recorded examples of any of these, lol. In the last 40 years, I've found 2 drummers who are 100% mic recorded with zero sound additions, sample blends, sample replacement, etc.
Chris Turner and Alex Lopez. There was a 3rd, Chris Adler, but they actually added a random sound to his snare.. but just the snare. Every other drummer may have an album that's mic recorded, but they havent been consistently mic recorded.
I swear Danny Carey is not of this earth. Dude freakin' rips! Find the Vic Firth YT video of him playing "Pneuma" live with Tool.
I'm not a metal guy, but I get a very good drum sound recording in my basement using very consumer-grade stuff -- Focusrite Clarett, decent (but not expensive/vintage) mics, etc. I get the triggering for really fast double-kick stuff, so I'm not knocking that. But aside from that... it's not THAT hard to get a good drum sound without samples, and I am nowhere near a professional. People are just lazy nowadays, and this epidemic of "everything I record has to be PERFECT" is sucking the soul out of a lot of modern music.
@@robertfoshizzle yeah, totally possible. But you also need to start with a good sounding drum, and some of the shit I've seen people want to record... SMH. It's never going to sound good if the heads are old, filthy, and covered with dents and tape. I've also known so many drummers who don't know how to tune the drums. It's annoying to do, sure... But it's essential.
@@soundman1402 For sure, if you're a professional mixer and a band sends you garbage multi-tracks, there's only so much you can do. If the performance, tuning, and recording quality are all bad, there is no choice but to sample replace.
It's sad though that should ever need to happen with a band that's serious enough about their music to pay someone to mix them. I've been around other drummers in our music scene that play on kits that sound like dog ass because they refuse to spend a few bucks on new heads or learn how to tune -- or even what a well-tuned drum sounds like. I understand not everyone is rich and can afford a high-end drum set and fresh heads every month. But even when I was a broke college kid playing in bands, I made sure my drums didn't sound like crap.
The issue with the #ArchspireAuditon is that the band specifically had guidelines for it, and people still did post-production quantizations and edits.
Doing edits for production is one thing, but lying on your application and audition is completely different.
“Dick measuring contest” is a very accurate description of this phenomenon. Musicality is more important than being the fastest.
That's just metal and jazz instrumentalists in general. Jazz has drum battles and metal has shredding contests for example.
Sonically it sounds fake, kick drums are like someone with a bad case of explosive diarrhea, is quite monotonous, and unoriginal; all because they are afraid of creativity. Then these amateur bands whine & cry because their "songs" are not bringing them fame, fortune, and hordes of fans. Well because they are generic, not the band of all bands they claim to be, and no different than the hundreds of others doing the same thing. Besides that, they cannot play their stuff accurately in a live setting.
I don't care if people use real drums or samples. If they play them live or program them. It makes no difference to me if they sound good. I get so sick of the elitism. Claiming they are live when they are not is another matter. If it sounds good, then great. If I want to hear live music I will buy a live recording or go and watch them live.
What's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine? You only have to punch the information into the drum machine once.
How do you know when there is a drummer at the door? He never knows when to come in!
@LorraineHinchliffe-vg5cb and the knocking speeds up
How do you get a drummer to stop playing while you tune ?? You can't.
Q: How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Four. One to change the light bulb & the other three to tell him how much better Neil Peart would have done it.
@@LorraineHinchliffe-vg5cbThat and the knock speeds up.
As a singer who doesn't use Auto-Tune I feel this. I absolutely can't believe how many metal acts use autotune, and the consumers can't tell the difference. They absolutely don't know when somebody's using subtle Auto-Tune, but they will complain to fuck if you ain't perfect.
Adding Autotune to song is like adding urine to a recipe. 😢
They need to play some Dark Souls.
Almost as if this elitist attitude towards "pure" music doesn't matter and people just want to listen to something that sounds good. The 80s thrived on drum machines. I'd rather my voice be in tune than not. No one cares if you dig a long deep ditch with a shovel in 10 hours when you could've got an excavator for 10 minutes. CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY DON"T VALUE HARD WORD AND EXPERIENCE?? At the end of the day most people won't notice or care. Folks only care about the end product. Just make music and get over yourself.
My dad is a jazz drummer with over 60 years experience under his belt, and the fake drum crap makes him cringe and laugh. Just sayin'. Rock on, Glenn:)
This is starting to become a series with a repeating plot, like that of Power Rangers:
- A video is published stating a strict, one-sided opinion on something, so it's potentially polarising.
- Comments get predictably outraged at the strictness and one-sidedness of the statement.
- A follow-up video is published stating «you got it wrong».
- Comments dissing previous video's commenters bloom like it's spring again.
- If there's enough drama, more videos on the topic can be made, like with the Gibson series.
According to communication theory, when the receiver gets the wrong message the problem is with the sender.
At the same time, a lot of people don’t even have their receivers on.
It's like it was planned that way to generate more content. ;) And this is not meant to be a disparagement at all! I think it's a great idea. We all want more and more content, and sometimes the ideas just don't flow, so this is a good way to stretch a concept into multiple vids. If I had any charisma or ideas or any video editing ability at all, I'd probably put out content this way. But that also requires a lot of followers, which I also don't have (see above about lack of charisma). So Glenn's earned the right to stretch an idea into a series using crowd-sourced content, IMO.
This is basically humanity's M.O. re: everything.
@@soundman1402 He definitely has the right! And others have the right to bitch about it, haha.
What I really don't like is he shows author names. That's public shaming. Any other channel I follow showing comments remove the name of the author, even when it's hate.
Any argument that states "It's just the way it's done" makes me instantly loose respect for someone. That's just telling me that you're lazy, take shortcuts and not someone that I'd want to work with. Just because "it's the way it's done" doesn't make it right or better; just means someone doesn't know how to think outside the box or is too lazy to.
Yep... The same excuses used for why so many modern rock albums are brickwal limited within an inch of their lives. Drums and bass suffer first and then if the limiting is really extreme the guitars even start sounding like sausage.
Agreed 100%. Sample replacing all drums by default is lazy and boring. I have no problem with people using sample enhancement/replacement for creative effects, or when you have a problematic drum that you don't have the time/ability to re-record in an otherwise great take. But if you decide before you even hit record that you're going to sample replace everything, what are you really learning, if anything, about mic placement, tuning, etc.? People just want to take the shortcut to get "acceptable" sounding results instead of learning how to record and create unique drum sounds without using the same damn samples everyone in the "industry" uses.
How do you feel about Metallica recording master of puppets on down tuned guitars and then speeding the recording up to get the album tempo? How do you feel about megadeath using drum samples on almost all their albums to pad the drums? Since compression and distortion give a false sense of dynamic consistency is that cheating? Is cutting and pasting different takes together to create a track cheating? Why are triggers any different?
This debate is so one-sided that even my idiotic bass player brain can see just how utterly incorrect drummers are being about this sample/trigger topic. If it's a sample, it's not a real drum, and therefore cheating! Now... where did I put my bong, again?
I happened to catch up belatedly with one of your efforts about ‘tone wood’ which was hilarious and it got me thinking if P.T. Barnum had been around today he would have gone straight into the ‘Vintage’ electric guitar market.
Hell yea I made VC! Good stuff Glenn. Started my journey recording acoustic drums because of you.🤘🔥
It's a bumpy road! But worth it!
Hope its going well! I started doing the same because of him years ago and had to take some time (i took 2 years just to be solidified in it) to relearn how to play the drums because i found out how bad i was. Timing was fine, but every other aspect of my playing was atrocious. Dont give up. it's completely worth it.
If you haven't already, check out Sound Radix drumleveler (Glenn has a video about it) or the one i have, MeldaProductions mdrumleveler. They are extremely helpful
@@SpectreSoundStudiosabsolutely. It’s time for metal drums to evolve. Maybe wood, hoops and skins aren’t appropriate for speed anymore. My question is what medium could be used to get “typewriter” but naturally hit & mic-able. Aluminum? Ceramic? Probably a convo for 40 years from now 😅. Appreciate you & the team Mr. Fricker 🤘
As a classical musician, hiring a percussion section to do metal is probably a bad idea. Orchestral bass drums are so much bigger and just can't play that quickly, and if you put any of them on a kit to play, they're likely going to be worse than your average metal drummer. They'd need a rehearsal or so to make sure everything happens at the right time. However, if you want anything mallet related, bells, and giant cymbal related sounds, they've got that in their bag for you every day while half asleep. Now, if you get a bunch of half-decent metal drummers together that've had some band class experience, you'd probably have a semi-decent chance of getting a metal percussion ensemble together!
a tip to make bands sound more unique... learn to play fast and powerful without any aid... that might mean no 16th notes at 300 bpm
Just as well, that crap is boring as shit.
@@metalinyourhead3604 i like me some technical drumming here and there, but i'd rather hear something that someone could actually play live if their drum module goes down haha
@@bassgoul I think "technical" is used to make it sound more complex than it truly is.
For sure speed doesn't necessarily mean technical, and honestly i don't give a shit if it's just a great song. I don't honestly think samples (even augmentation) makes drums sound better in any setting. Natural drums can be made to sound awesome if someone knows what they are doing. If one is bothering to mic up drums, they should leave all the nuance in and mix/compress/automate to bring it up a bit if need be. Even a shitty drummer just needs some time alignment and heavy compression, let the mix mask the subtle bleed and anomalies
I'm a washed up never was, what's he mean? I got fanboy attacked in the comments on that video because I dared to suggest a real drummer doesn't need triggers to perform.
For the comment about converting wav files to pro tools. Technically you don't have to wav files will work just fine. Back when I had my studio with protools (7/8 era) if you were using protools on a Mac you would want to convert to sd2 files. At the time wav files couldn't be quantized to the grid. I can't quite remember but I think when you loaded a session with wav it would ask if you wanted to convert.
Talking about mix perspective for drummers recently. I always mix from the drummer's perspective, but I'm a lefty and play with the kit backwards so I end up mixing from a typically audience perspective. Does my head hurt because I'm thinking about it so hard and drummers aren't typically supposed to think?
I got a theory I think you could test, from experience I found wound 3rds stay in tune better than unwound.
They're certainly easier to play. I had Ernie Ball Not Even Slinky 12's for the longest time and I just *dreaded* bending that 3rd string. I went to the Magnum set after they were released and I've been so happy to *ahem* "touch my g string"
@alococuccoyo6103 as a bass player first I like the feel better too
1:24 Here’s the thing. I’ve seen metal bands use triggers live before. Not to fake the drumming, but to better dial in the kick drum sound so that it’s really nice and crisp. You can’t do that with an actual kick drum. The actual playing however is not fake at all. The drummer still has to do the work.
You wouldn't be able to make him comprehend it
@ What part of “the drummer still has to do the work” isn’t understandable?
velocity of hits IS part of drumming though... If a drummer has a constant feather touch because they're used to samples then they won't be any good if you take those samples off.
@@placeholder739they don’t have a constant feather touch though. That’s an exaggeration. There’s tons of great extreme metal drummers hitting real hard. You just need triggers on the kicks to make it sound pleasing in a live show environment
as a drummer i never play triggered. isnt it wayyy more fun to put like 3 mics on a bass drum anyway?? also i actually play with dynamics so its nice to be able to pick up on that in the recording.
If I had to choose between Scott Columbus (RIP) and Thomas Lang for my record, I would go for Scott any time. Thomas Lang is so perfect that he is lifeless. Just an example.
I recently listened to the Imperial edition of Hail To England paying particular attention to Scott Columbus' drumming. He had a unique sometimes sparse approach that I'd never fully appreciated. Definitely a one off.
I’m really of two minds about it - I think that sampling in particular is fine in a vacuum because it is much quicker and easier to “record” good-sounding drums on a shoestring budget using them. If you are a new young band or can’t afford studio time for other reasons, but have access to an e-kit or triggers, it’s a great way for your drums to not sound like complete dog shit, especially with how comparatively cheap and easy it is to record vocals, guitars, etc with good results. However, properly recorded real drums are ALWAYS going to sound better to my ears and people should always be honest with their audience.
“Dick measuring competition of epic proportions and they’re all using strap ons”
Oh that actually made me laugh and I needed that today
Cheers dude
All the more reason why I don’t regret getting into electronic music production, I can play instruments, compose, arrange, mix and master on my own time and not worry about the elitism of what’s “real” and “fake”, that kind of thinking really holds back experimentation, I mean, it’s music, there aren’t really any “rules” just guide lines to achieve certain sounds, machines are overall better to work with than people lol
See this is where I disagree with Glenn. Like these drummer auditioning aren't pretending that these are the acoustic drums. They're trying to display how they can play the tracks right because the music that they are playing in the style they are playing is played with triggers. I've done sound for a quite notable black metal band who drummer took the kick drum away and replaced it with a kick trigger pad. There a bunch of bands the faster more extreme styles that I think are pushing how far you can push metal with either speed or sound by using triggers.
I recently joined a band the music and sounds can't be created live with a 100% acoustic kit because a lot of the sounds are 100% synthetic and it's all over the place.
There is only so much you can do with the traditional setup and there are bands out there trying to push beyond that. Most suck but some are golden
Ahah long live Glenn! Thanks man, really appreciate your input and sharing of all things music industry, recording, tips and tricks, so we don’t fuck it up as much or understand where we messed things up. Hope you get to 1M subs soon. Cheers from Portugal!
Bro, you can't keep hating on sample drums when you have a DRUM PLUG-IN. My brother in christ, you are making what you hate.
I mean it is a short step from fake drumming to realising that 90% of recorded music is actually changing everything up to create a synthetic soundscape of audio. Guitar cabs dont sound like that in the room if you close mic, bass doesnt sound like that through DIs, mics are just EQ filters..The difference is that the playing is often more real than some instagrammer triggering a sample of fills from a single trigger source. Maybe this lot need to discover Albini, Robinson etc, who tried to capture authentic takes at times.
The point of recorded music is to make it sound as good as possible for home listening, and have perfect version of the tracks. So yes, obviously, they are going to be meticulously edited. If you want to hear live performed music, then watch them perform live or buy a live recording.
@@EgoChip that is not the point I am making. The point I am making is we accept some dishonest sound, and many edits, its nuanced both with the studio and the listener.
Even live acts are not true representations anyway, due to the use of modellers, DIs, PA systems and even autotune now.
@@EgoChipeven then, the sound will be manipulated through the live mixing board.
@@RealHomeRecording People need to stop getting so bogged down by the "how" and just enjoy the music.
@@EgoChip indeed
5:59 We actually played a show with a band who did exactly that. Drums and some other instruments were sampled and two guy walked on stage. It was a bit bizzare, but why not.
Modern metal reminds me of the 80s . You had over the top shredding and showboating and now it's who can play faster and more technical
Nechtan doesn't sound half bad without triggers, it'd be a pleasure to have him on the show, he clearly deserves to be heard ^^
Would love your opinion Glenn:
Last album I made, we did bed tracks live off the floor with only 4 mics for the drums, so I used ableton to extract the UN-QUANTIZED midi data and augment, not replace, the kick and snare to help them be audible on crappy speakers/headphones. I don't consider it cheating, as the only thing I was compensating for was my lack of access to better/more mics.
This time it's sample free, and I'm using reaper, because we have a lot more gear at our disposal
The only hypocrisy I see, as a bass player, is that you sell software instruments like Element Bass. Doesn’t bother me much, but it felt worth mentioning. Love your work, Glen. (I think Element sounds legitimately great, I am happy to put that on the record)
These are outside the metal sphere and more in the jazz/electronic realm but there are two very interesting TEDx Talks around the influence of the digital age on live music. The first one is Jojo Mayer's "Between 0 and 1" where he talks about how digitally created beats influenced his playing style but trying to replicate what a machine can do, while adding the human element of improvisation. The other one is Owen Biddle and Zach Danzinger talking about how they use triggers to play along with them instead of playing along to the pre-sampled triggers. It's not the "we need samples to play 300BPM" kind of thing, but if you're interested to see other ways digital music has influenced music/drumming I can't recommend them enough.
Remember its only "just noise" if you lack the ability to comprehend what's being played, if you worked on your listening skills and practiced your instruments more you'd be able to understand what was happening :)
corpo/salesman glenn is the most cursed content on this side of youtube...
thanks for trying to help so many people with your experience man! appreciate your time
Ah well... Small apartment and my drums are kinda shit. I never lie about programming and I only program what I play, if even that tbh cuz it's so tedious and grueling. Id much rather just play if I could
Glen, engineers are part of the problem. Ten years ago all of them, at least those I had access to, didn't think twice about aligning everything to the grid, sample replacing and making their life easy. Nowadays there are a few, actually one that is around me, that is whiling to make that extra effort of working with a take of reasonably recorded acoustic drums. The rest will do just as before and If you ask them, then why even bother with live drums I may just send a midi file. They will say yeah that will be better. And I am not mentioning costs at this time.
There are videos of Spencer Prewitt (Archspire's previous drummer) playing some of their songs taken with phone camera audio. Pretty clear he doesn't *need* triggers or samples at all.
I absolutely oppose the use of triggers to compensate for what the instrument can't do. I agree it's completely fake. Whether or not the drummer still has to physically do something to trigger it is irrelevant, it is not the instrument making the sound. But I have much less problem with that than I do with ACTUAL cheating. Mainly because I can't pick on drummers for fake sounds while listening to a guitar run through 57 pedals that tweak the sound in unnatural ways. That smells a bit like a double standard.
On cross daw support!
Just found out the newest version of Cubase supports other daws. Here's a quote from the product page on Sweetwater
"Multi-DAW Support: Across manufacturers beyond Steinberg, Cubase Pro and Artist 14 support detailed project-data exchange across multiple DAWs" Love your show!
Hmmm. I’ll have a look!
When Glenn reaches 1 million subscribers he'll put some content in between the Ads and 5 star reviews of free stuff he's been given. Remember, it's the big bad corporations who control the Ad frequency & placement. So I was told?
There's these OMF files or something that supposedly can be used for compatibility but I never got them to work. The thing is the goal of most companies is monopoly, so any efforts at giving a universal option are very much out of the question.
I was signed up for the "Fix the Mix" challenge. Those were interesting. On the first one, they replaced the shitty drums with..... slightly less shitty drum samples. First, I was amazed by how easily and carelessly they did it. Second, with that being so easy, I was thinking "Wow, it is too damn easy to change a whole drum kit", and then they started to have to fix timing. Might as well just reprogram and sequence it.... and they did that too. There's just little to no respect towards band-created music, which also seems tied to a lack of musicianship. Why not just let AI write the stuff and save us all the hassle?
People have been coming for the show and not the music for a long time. 90's techno had the wop wop bass in nearly every song and that's all anybody could hear at the clubs. I'm sure they just hear the fast drums while moshing.
I'll say this... Extreme technical playing does not equate to quality OR talent for that matter.
im not into metal but love your videos and have helped, much love
I agree with your critique of the genre; play the instruments. If I want electronic music, I'll listen to it.
It's funny. There has never been a music competition with the category of "Best Laptop". 😂
Triggers, samples, backtracks, and to an extent MIDI are an issue for me. I can see how they're fun to play around with, but if you're making music with them, why not just add a keyboard player to your band instead? Keyboards have E-drum settings, they have orchestra sounds, miscellaneous spunds for whatever you need. It also won't be cheating, because someone is actually playing the keys to make it all happen and can add their own personal taste to it.
Keyboards were metal enough for Children of Bodom, they're metal enough for me.
4:01 wait people are just sampling drum sounds and then using those? Why aren't they designing sounds or sampling explosions and doing foley ish. man.
I am planning to record percussion with my car in the coming weeks.
Friendly rant here with probably tons of grammatical errors - I honestly don't believe samples can be considered completely "someone else playing". The hits are yours, the timing (usually) is yours, the velocity of the hits are yours, it's just coming from a different kit. Someone else produces the sounds but YOU are still playing the grooves live and hopefully not being quantized. I admit though, they are a tool - not a replacement for an actual performance.
Admittedly, I used to work for Steven Slate of Slate Drums/Slate Digital, I helped take his software down from being pirated. His sample library saved tons of my mixes to give bands a sound they wanted when their recordings weren't done up to snuff. Granted, I try hard to mix live drums because I prefer them, I do...but sometimes samples are used out of need (at least for me.) It is still someone's performance though on the foundation of it, is it not?
Also - Steven's MIDI SSD plugin helped me so much as a disabled musician who, without a drummer, can write songs and release them. I don't like using it to remake a band's song for them when their drummer sucks, though, even if they ask.
My profile has my own songs and songs I mixed from Spectre Academy, those ones I tried to mix the live drums without any samples. (I have to admit to blending sometimes.)
I'm not a professional, I'm amateur, I suck sometimes because I lack proper monitors and shit, but...this is my take.
I'm open to being wrong, I think it's opinion no matter what, but this is my take. If anyone wants to call me out, so to speak, just keep it civil?
Sounds like Glenn has cast the 1 Mic challenge! And I agree, put a Mic of your choice in a room, with u, and your drums, n JUST FUCKIN PLAY!!!
Glenn should make a list of who’s fake and who isn’t! Since he seems to just know it all .
Importing WAV files into Pro Tools is simple, as long as they're not little chunks of audio that need to be placed somewhere on the timeline other than the starting point.
I'm argumentative by nature, so when someone makes swathing points like you tend to do, I typically want to start the debate and try to defend the other side. But your takes on modern metal (in general) are so spot on to me, especially from a recording/production stand point. The fake drummers are just that, they are fake drummers. I watched that video and agree with your analysis of each of those drummers.
Video idea for you, you should do a Beginner vs Professional drummer video. Have you play drums on a track, and have a professional drummer play the same track. Nothing fancy, even just a 4 on the floor kind of beat would work. Then compare how they sound with and without the use of samples. Because if there's anything I've learned in my years of recording drums, it's that the drummer is more important than almost anything when it comes to recording drums. Hell, have you play on the nicest kit you have, and have the professional drummer play on an entry level kit or something just to double down on the comparison.
Beyond that, and I've felt this way since I first opened a DAW, the over perfection of music is flat out ruining music. I heard someone talk about the state of baseball, and why it seems like its not as fun to watch anymore, I forget who said it it but the quote is "The more we learn about winning, the more boring the product becomes." This was in reference to almost all MLB teams relying on analytics and "moneyball" strategies instead of developing an individual approach to the game. The same is said for many genres of music, the formula is there, and anyone can grab it. The catch 22 to the whole thing is, many musicians who are actually creative and talented songwriters or producers or performers are too afraid of all their work being picked apart by the 12 year olds in their parents' basement who think they heard a single off time note don't have the guts to put out honest music.
Man you really want to impress drummers. Just show them some of these live Japanese female drummers and make them feel bad about being outplayed by women live 😂. Love the content. Keep it up 👍
Just because something is a modern trend doesn’t mean it’s good. No, not all metal recordings were this way. One day in the future we may all be listening to this era and think “ wow, things back then all sound the same and terrible. It’s so dated”. That’s what trends do when everyone moves on.
Drums are the heartbeat to any band, the drums are supposed to be loud snd proud not muddied down just to give the singer the spotlight to stick out to an executive just cause they of all of a sudden have a "problem" with every bandmember and they their ego gets to their head. Notes should be taken from other great percussionists we had lost throughout time like John Bonham or Neil Peardt bands like Led Zeppelin and Rush they disbanded because there was respect and love
Yeah, but fast drumming with this type of genre just sounds like every other fast drumming of that drumming. There is no cowbell, no swing and drowned out cymbals.
@orlock20 Do it like Black Metal did they said fuck compression and throw in the cowbells, the 70s techniques, keep it less technical, defy the rules, you're not trying to impress the Swifties after all
I just catched the image of the "mobile infantry, we need you" is that from Starship trooper ?
8:07 NO NEVER PAY FOR file conversion. It was a thing in like 2004 but NO ONE charged for it. Pro Tools joined the rest of the Music world by using Wav/Aiff/CAF files in 2004. Before that a few DAWs used Sound Designer II SD2 files which were a mess and basically just proprietary nonsense. But once DAWs reached a Bit Depth of 24 Bits everyone switched to normal lossless files. The engineer was trying to scam you for more money, he probably has a drug habit or gambles LMAO!! Just export the files neatly for the studio you will be using for mixing or mastering. Export each track as the next engineer needs with or without plugins depending on you agreed too. Cheers!
I think that for playing metal with no triggers and samples you need extremely skilled people that can hit hard and with good note spacing, the human limit is around 200 - 220 bpm in my opinion.
I think guitarists is actually to blame about this "super speed triggers gravity blast" thing. Pirated Cubase 15 years ago, EzDrummer and progranmed some redicilous stuff, and the internet went like "WOAH".
About the fake drummer thing, this is my view. If you quantize it and drops in a hit on a STUDIO RECORDING, it is fine. Many times it is the only solution due to schedules and money.
But if you are like quantizing and dropping in stuff and claims to be a "playthrough one take" it is not cool.
This is mostly about Lord Marco, and Lord Marco is a GREAT DRUMMER! But that he drops in and hits and quantizes his "life performances" is not fine.
On the other hand, people that does this, and people who thinks it is 100% real, it will produce som freaks of nature like Alex Rüdinger and Chris Turner. People that are ON the grid, and you would not believe that it is 100% without samples
Completely agree on the DAW to DAW thing outside of Rewire it's just such a pain. Would be cool if someone even tried to team up with the major companies to make a software to like drag & drop the project file, Select what DAW you want to convert to and let it do it's thing.
I think at one point Avid made software that would convert other DAW project files to Pro Tools. Not the other direction, of course.
I think we might be going back to old school. In the late 80's rock music was lots of beep-boop electronic stuff...... then Nirvana killed that stuff. It's a cycle, but I'd like to go back to organic music.
Eric Morotti from suffocation is one of the fastest drummers in Canada hands down
Hey Glenn!
You've probably answered this a thousand times but I can't remember your stance off the top of my head.
Is it better to go from a Line out directly into your DAW or would the best sound come from micing the amp instead? Thanks and fuck you my friend! Rock on!
P.S. I have hit the subscribe button at least three times but I don't think it's helping. Also, love seeing "Nice Glenn" again. He should do a whole episode again some time.
🥸
8:07 in the start of their comment they said "wave files made from reaper" i'm assuming made = rendered. so they ARE talking about pure wave files there, which means the engineer was either lying or trying to rip them off. the rest of the comment is saying they did a background check on this engineer and found red flags which also counts towards this mastering engineer likely being a ripoff.
Let people fake it who gives a shit? It'll be quite obvious once they get in the jam room if they can truly play it
People who listen to music don't care if the drum is sample or not.. They care about if the songs good, and that's songwriting. Drum samples is not the problem, songwriting is.
Re: Election. Glad to hear we're not the only ones choosing between a shit sandwich and a piss popsicle.
Re Drum Samples. Even if we remove drum samples then we still rarely hear the true sound of the drum, we have to consider the room, the drum type including size and skin, the mics and mic placement, the electronics of the desk plus stuff like reverb, compression, EQ. Bonhams when the levee breaks. The drum kit did not sound like that in real life, it was because of drum kit placement, playing and the mics which captured that sound. If one had the skills and equipment you could record live drums and end up sounding like a sampled drum. Does it really matter to the end? I suspect not. Like I said even a live drum recording is going to be processed, compressed, get EQ'ed, close mike and room mic blended. The only person in my view to get real natural drums is steve albini RIP.
Imagine this perfect world, everyone using universal projects between daws 😱
Regarding drum samples versus real drums: it usually boils down to one of two problems if not both, the drummer is too lazy to change their heads and tune their drums, or the engineer is too lazy to take the time to properly mic up a kit in the studio. There was a time when there was professionalism in this industry, but sadly that's going the way of the dodo...
not really sure for extreme metal bands with 280+bpm, your bass drum have limitation especially when you only use double pedal
I guess it's a style/genre thing, I love hiphop and I dont think theres anything wrong with samples, but when it comes to rock or metal NOTHING can really replace a real drummer playing real drums
REAL DRUMMERS MATTER
Apparently not in Modern Metal, they don't :)
Anyone else feel like Glenn’s nice guy after is based off of Mitch Gallagher from Sweet Water 😂
i hate "sampled" drums. using a midi/sampled-drum virtual instrument is GREAT when you're not a drummer and you're alone and want to record an idea. Sampled drums do not sound good, even when pasted over a real drummer's performance. If you think they do, then you grew up after sampled drums were already a thing, and your initial life programming subconsciously says "I love my favorite bands that I grew up with...even though I found out years later that they used sampled drums...therefore I don't care"
I got a feeling, you‘d be pleasantly surprised, what John Longstreth or Kevin Paradis can accomplish after pulling the Roland/Alesis.
YES!!!! Ive finally made it to the big time boys.
well . I guess drive , chorus , delays and the like to get a better sound is guitarists cheating , aren't we just manipulating tones , , maybe amplification is too
Theyve been using samples on drums since the 1990s
Fake drums = bad. Fake bass = ok. Make bassists great “again”.
Samples on kicks are so standard, non death metal bands use it too. It clears up the sound live, I'd recommend it to slower bands as well.
This is where I think premium E Kits come in handy. Same sound every night.
Biggest moan is when the kit is so heavily compressed to get it all louder there's no room for any subtlety. Kick is either 'BOOM!' or nothing.
Is playing a e-kit cheating ?
In a sense, if you can't play your parts without triggering samples, you're a trigger player, not a drummer. Not a value judgement, just a clear distinction between the two... 🤷🏻
Show me a single "trigger player" who isn't also a drummer. I think your logic would follow to make the distinction that trigger playing is more a technique that is separate from traditional drumming, but the skill required to do so requires a base knowledge and mechanical skill for traditional drumming. It is like saying shredding really fast and musically on an electric isn't guitar playing, because you aren't strumming chords on an acoustic, or playing classical guitar. The distinctions are really down to technique and then how you feel about them is down to taste.
Ezdr 3 is superb for us home studio types who suck at drums.
Obligatory Moose for reference 😂
Leets gooo
Yes samples are lying just like recordings are. Got it.
Here's a legit question...When doubling guitars and want to double again, what are the best results for panning when doubling left and right?Hard left,right and the second batch the same?
Should eqing be slightly different for each take for more pro sounding?or not?
Did you want to listen to my band Glenn?
Our drummer did everything without samples.
I would love a 3-mic drum setup... But that is not metal anymore... 😭
Love the (deliberate?) typo in the title, saying “dummers” instead of “drummers” 🤣 or have *I* missed the point? 🤔🤣
"Deliberate." Yeah, that's the ticket! :) :)
If anything, triggers make mistakes more audible because every hit is heard and can show if that drummer is actually tight or not
Real drums challenge? Yes, in a heart beat! Where do I sign up?
Even my cat roles its eyes at me these days.
Samples are a different topic in my opinion. I myself dont like it and i think modern metal relys to much on them. Id personly love more accustic drums without triggers. That being said, a couple of the videos that got the hate have drummers putting in hits they never played in the first place and then claiming their take wasnt edited which is another level in my opinion. With triggers at least you still have to have the skill to play all the hits at the right time and if you miss a hit it wont trigger. Yeah sure, without triggers it would sound shit but at least you played every note and didnt just drop in the ones you missed in post
If your keeping the performance how are triggers any different as using a plugin to reamp a guitar or bass track?
I’ll probably get hate but modern Metal Core probably just has the best drums in Metal.
The album Tether by Of Mice and Men has my favorite drums.
They just sound huge. My favorites are Indigo, Shiver, and Into the Sun.
Tell me those drums don’t fuckin rule.
They’re aren’t a dick measuring speed contest. They’re heavy, they go through your chest and give a great sense of time.
If they really want to be honest about it why don’t they play electric drums which is a trigger firing machine