For me the whole question comes down to this: Does he think she learned from this experience enough to become a better partner? Some people learn to be better people from their mistakes. Others just learn how to be better at not getting caught.
"In veno veritas. In wine, there is truth." People often reveal their true selves under the influence of alcohol. She wasn't blackout drunk, but was drunk enough to reveal her true nature.
Alcohol just releases your inhibitions and lets you do what you want to do. If she had been roofied she wouldn't have been bumping and grinding. I would say she got carried away, and it never crossed her mind he would come looking for her. I hate to say, but if he marries her, and they have kids, he'd better have each one paternity tested.
If you truly believe that she was cognizant and rational enough to recognize all of you and what she was doing with whom, then you never really knew her and need to break it off with her now.
While it is possible that she was drunk enough for her to do what she did, it could be her just trying to avoid responsibility, at the end it comes to the question of what has she done on the past that would make you think she's a cheater, this is a tricky one. This is more of a decision that needs to be made while gathering facts and being rational than taking a decision just on feelings. (Sorry for my English)
@themandownthehall Like I said, this is a matter of facts and being rational, which means leaving feelings in second place. While I do share a small part of your opinion, I still think that generalizing can lead to misunderstandings in the future, just my process of thought though.
I've seen someone scared sober. Hell, I've been shocked sober myself. I have friends who would do stupid stuff they wouldn't do sober when drunk. I remember being young and partying with friends I trusted and one of the single friends I was interested in was a shy virgin...but drunk she would try to throw herself at me to the point her bestie/my cousin would have to pull her off of me. I would not reciprocate her affection while drunk and she would barely remember what she did. My cousin shocked her back into realty/sober the last time she came on to me drunk and never did it again. We never did get together. Still, Anna's behavior is unacceptable. Either this is what she does when OP isn't around, or she simply cannot hold her liquor AND should not publicly drink EVER. She still seems to want to repair the relationship. He seems to be considering it. He should do this if he chooses to stay in the relationship(and some of it is going to be ugly): 1)she doesn't drink publicly anymore, and she can completely forget about girl's nights out to the bars/clubs ever again. Girls night will be going out to eat or having wine at one of the girl's homes without mixed company. 2)if they get married, there will be a prenuptial agreement that is iron clad covering irreconcilable differences/no fault, cheating, child custody/child support, and everything will be either in his favor or equal split for mutually agreed marital termination. 3)paternity testing on the children at birth before signing a birth certificate. The shame of her "club indiscretion" is permanent with trust never EVER reaching 100 percent in the relationship...actions have consequences. 4) This is big...they are going to a strip club and she has to watch a beautiful nude dancer give him a very enthusiastic lap dance SHE has to pay for, including a couple of drinks so he will be "less in control of his actions". She needs to witness what she expects to be forgiven for. She will either understand or end the relationship out of disgust at that point.
The question that must be going through this guy's mind is if she did this before we were married, at a club where she knew we were all present, would she do something similar in the future? I suspect the answer will be, "Yes". The trust is gone....move on.
Looking at her and getting the feeling that you did something wrong in natural. It is your previous deep imprinting of your love and affection for her, like a computer program being overwritten to a new reality of disgust and loathing. They are incompatible and the older program cannot be erased overnight.
She was tempted. Lacking integrity and dismissing all judgement about what it would mean for her relationship she gave in to temptation. I doubt that she was anything more than a bit buzzed from the booze. If she had been dr*gged sh would have passed out not taken off like a scalded cat. Instead she recognised the severity of the situation and took off running. Disappeared until she had time to concoct the lamest story ever about "not remembering" to minimise her transgression. I'll bet she wishes she had come up with something better because now she has to stick to her lame story. BTW. So what if she doesn't remember. She did it. OP remembers because he saw it. "I don't remember running that child over while drunk so I'm not responsible." Eye roll. Making her return the ring herself was cold. Fist bump to OP for that. It must have really hurt but it looks like she took that consequence on the chin. Props for that at least but she is continuing to deny he truth. That she was tempted and went with it rather than resist. She obviously didn't think about being caught. Maybe next time she will. Question: Will she show some integrity and say no or will she just put more effort into covering her tracks. Has this changed her and does she want to be a person of integrity? Until she at least owns up OP has to proceed on he basis that even if this was the first time it will not be the last.
She's clearly showed who she was. He better run.
The fact she was grinding with a random guy knowing you were there with her with friends showed a total disrespect for you drunk or not
I agree
Drunk or not, letting a random man touch you means she is not ready for being a wife.
For me the whole question comes down to this: Does he think she learned from this experience enough to become a better partner? Some people learn to be better people from their mistakes. Others just learn how to be better at not getting caught.
"In veno veritas. In wine, there is truth." People often reveal their true selves under the influence of alcohol. She wasn't blackout drunk, but was drunk enough to reveal her true nature.
I agree
Did she know the guy she was dancing with? OP says he was a random guy, how does he know?
Alcohol just releases your inhibitions and lets you do what you want to do.
If she had been roofied she wouldn't have been bumping and grinding.
I would say she got carried away, and it never crossed her mind he would come looking for her.
I hate to say, but if he marries her, and they have kids, he'd better have each one paternity tested.
She could be telling the truth, but I don’t see how it’s possible she didn’t know it wasn’t you groping her.
A strong story! People often don't realize how much they can hurt those who believed them.
She wasn't behaving like a wife so don't make her one. Simple, just explain that to her
She is lying
If she can do that when all of you are in the club, imagine what she will do when she is that club alone?
Dodged another bullet. Stay single men.
If you truly believe that she was cognizant and rational enough to recognize all of you and what she was doing with whom, then you never really knew her and need to break it off with her now.
While it is possible that she was drunk enough for her to do what she did, it could be her just trying to avoid responsibility, at the end it comes to the question of what has she done on the past that would make you think she's a cheater, this is a tricky one.
This is more of a decision that needs to be made while gathering facts and being rational than taking a decision just on feelings.
(Sorry for my English)
She is definitely trying to avoid responsibility. That is what women do. They always refuse to take responsibility for their actions
@themandownthehall Like I said, this is a matter of facts and being rational, which means leaving feelings in second place. While I do share a small part of your opinion, I still think that generalizing can lead to misunderstandings in the future, just my process of thought though.
I've seen someone scared sober. Hell, I've been shocked sober myself. I have friends who would do stupid stuff they wouldn't do sober when drunk. I remember being young and partying with friends I trusted and one of the single friends I was interested in was a shy virgin...but drunk she would try to throw herself at me to the point her bestie/my cousin would have to pull her off of me. I would not reciprocate her affection while drunk and she would barely remember what she did. My cousin shocked her back into realty/sober the last time she came on to me drunk and never did it again. We never did get together.
Still, Anna's behavior is unacceptable. Either this is what she does when OP isn't around, or she simply cannot hold her liquor AND should not publicly drink EVER. She still seems to want to repair the relationship. He seems to be considering it. He should do this if he chooses to stay in the relationship(and some of it is going to be ugly): 1)she doesn't drink publicly anymore, and she can completely forget about girl's nights out to the bars/clubs ever again. Girls night will be going out to eat or having wine at one of the girl's homes without mixed company. 2)if they get married, there will be a prenuptial agreement that is iron clad covering irreconcilable differences/no fault, cheating, child custody/child support, and everything will be either in his favor or equal split for mutually agreed marital termination. 3)paternity testing on the children at birth before signing a birth certificate. The shame of her "club indiscretion" is permanent with trust never EVER reaching 100 percent in the relationship...actions have consequences. 4) This is big...they are going to a strip club and she has to watch a beautiful nude dancer give him a very enthusiastic lap dance SHE has to pay for, including a couple of drinks so he will be "less in control of his actions". She needs to witness what she expects to be forgiven for. She will either understand or end the relationship out of disgust at that point.
The question that must be going through this guy's mind is if she did this before we were married, at a club where she knew we were all present, would she do something similar in the future? I suspect the answer will be, "Yes".
The trust is gone....move on.
Looking at her and getting the feeling that you did something wrong in natural. It is your previous deep imprinting of your love and affection for her, like a computer program being overwritten to a new reality of disgust and loathing. They are incompatible and the older program cannot be erased overnight.
Well you figured it out before kid
No she knew
And wants sympathy
Good story till the impaled part.
She was tempted. Lacking integrity and dismissing all judgement about what it would mean for her relationship she gave in to temptation. I doubt that she was anything more than a bit buzzed from the booze. If she had been dr*gged sh would have passed out not taken off like a scalded cat. Instead she recognised the severity of the situation and took off running. Disappeared until she had time to concoct the lamest story ever about "not remembering" to minimise her transgression. I'll bet she wishes she had come up with something better because now she has to stick to her lame story. BTW. So what if she doesn't remember. She did it. OP remembers because he saw it. "I don't remember running that child over while drunk so I'm not responsible." Eye roll.
Making her return the ring herself was cold. Fist bump to OP for that. It must have really hurt but it looks like she took that consequence on the chin. Props for that at least but she is continuing to deny he truth. That she was tempted and went with it rather than resist. She obviously didn't think about being caught. Maybe next time she will. Question: Will she show some integrity and say no or will she just put more effort into covering her tracks. Has this changed her and does she want to be a person of integrity? Until she at least owns up OP has to proceed on he basis that even if this was the first time it will not be the last.
Ridiculous. Listening to a guys thoughts with no clue what happened.