Now throw in a set of Bosch super plugs. They are the 1 plug I have seen kill the performance of more than 1 engine. When I worked for Dodge I lost track of how many times a car would come in running rough and low on power after a tune-up, pull the plugs to find the super cheap Bosch supers in there, swap in a set of used plugs, and the engine runs like new.
My grandfather who owned and ran a service station post WWII always said the air and fuel doesn't care what's making the spark. As long as it's the right heat range, it doesn't care. Seems like he was right.
Man Richard preaching what I've been saying for years. I managed a parts store for about 10 years and always preached this info. All plugs if firing will make the same power. The difference in high dollar plugs is that the expensive alloy plugs will last longer without burning out and fouling as quickly as something like copper plugs. The NGK Lazer series plugs are designed with oem companies to be the best plug and are usually the OEM installed plugs. The only way to change how much power is Made is by changing cylinder pressure, either done by combustion chamber design or by forced or chemical induction. Copper is an ideal conductor. It's the reason your home uses copper wire. But in an engine it will burn away eventually.
Another smart mechanic,Its funny when I send people to the local O'Reilly and they try to push whatever junk plugs they have an excess of/Bosch/autolite Platinum whatever,then they get a dumb founded look when I say nope a want the cheapest ngk plug you have,I've put them in everything including a 367k ls that burned a quart plus a day n never had issues!
I don't consider ngk to be "cheap" plugs. They aren't a stupid rip off(or maybe not,we'll see) like the iridium and whatever they try to sell you. Ngk are great.
Ive run copper cores in all my gen 3 applications since the early 2000s. Local tuner found " a strange small but repeated midrange power increase" with them. I guess this just confirms his statement.
Less resistence in the ignition system under compression allows the field coil to collapse and release the maximum power with the least energy wasted from resistence using copper over other exotic metals..., metal to metal... Copper is the best comparatively. Exotic metals were introduced due to the mess the emissions control equipment created and access to spark plugs so using these exotic metal plugs allows longer periods between plug changes... Not any more power, as evidenced here
Copper plugs don't last as long, after 60k miles an iridium plug will be making more power. I run copper where changing them is easy or on power adder engines. A dozen copper plugs are usually cheaper than one iridium, plus there's no chance you're getting a chinese clone.
@@hydrocarbon82 , i do my plugs every 50k so it isnt an issue anyway. I can get the coppers at 30% the price of the platinums so even changing them twice as much im saving money
Tried those E3 plugs in my new (at the time) 08 F150. Kept getting random misfires and sluggish performance, went back to the factory recommended platinum tip plug and the truck ran fine.
Use iridium plugs, but don't use those multi tipped plugs. OEM ignition systems can't saturate the coils enough to warrant using them, and yes, they are prone to setting off misfire codes.
I know there is electronic feedback to the computer for fire. Plugs firing to different electrodes may send slightly diff signals. Maybe telling computer to adjust parameters. The factory spent time and research to know what’s (or which is) best. Because they do not want to burden the shops, or get a bad rep.
@@tomreyn3610 Yeah, which is why I was going to say there's nothing wrong with "double platinum" plugs to the poster above. That's what GM recommended in MANY engines before switching to iridium. Edit: OH, he meant multi-tipped (as he said). I agree, that multi-tip stuff is a huge gimmick. It always fires from one tip, anyways. I'm here because I bought 6x AC Delco Professional Iridium plugs for a 2000 Buick Park Ave with the 3800 Series II engine. The copper plugs in it (don't ask, I was dumber 15 years ago) when I put them into said Buick. It was my grandmother's (mine now). 2 of them started missing a month ago. Was getting misfire codes on cylinder 4 and 5. Driver side front and rear. I pulled out plug 5 (driver side front) and the "copper core" there was almost completely gone lol. Had about 38k miles on it. I know to change them at 20k, or that's the recommendation, but it had been so long, I forgot my stupid self opted for copper for "moar power." Now I have to go through the PITA of changing those plugs. The front ones are easy, of course. But, anyways, I went with the iridium. It was right around this year model (2000) that they went from recommending double platinum to iridium... so I just went iridium. I'll sell this car before these plugs go out. OH.. and they had went from a .055 gap to a .07+ gap in that 35-38k miles. Wow... But I may continue running copper plugs in my 86 F-150 5.0 EFI. Easy to change. Not sure if it would hurt anything going to iridium, though. If not, I'll just go with iridium. I have the timing bumped up and run 93 octane in it. I'll read into it it sometime.
I've used them on a few vehicles. They are best suited for older carbureted vehicles. I did use them on a 97 thunderbird though, and it didn't even want to run at first. After I disconnected the battery a while to hard reset the ecm, it was fine and performance/mpg showed small gains.
I’ve ran a set of e3 spark plug’s in my 63 Chevy 283 m/t two wheel drive pick up truck for years I think I got them when they first became available to purchase I replaced them because the factory plugs were fouling from leaking valve seals and would have to be pulled weekly and cleaned after putting the e3 plugs in I’ve never pulled them I still have the points distributer and oil bath air cleaner so for me they are great
I'm glad to finally see E3s on the dyno. I am a tiny bit surprised. I've always suspected they would actually KILL a little power, due to the shrouding by the numerous and massive ground electrodes.
They can work alright, but they do not last long. I wouldn't give more than 6-12 months on them before misfiring. They seem to work better than Bosch +4's but just about any standard plug from any manufacturer would work better.
@@The_Fat_Turtle I have no idea where the Hate for +4s comes from....I put a set in My Chevy W/T with Vortec V6 when doing the tune up at 100K....I checked them at 200K and they were still good, at 286,000 miles when the body became unsafe for road use due to rust, the +4s were still in it, Now its a Farm Truck that gets used for wood hauling, it was -15F yesterday and it fired right up...there is over 180,000 miles on those plugs and they still run like new.
The variances will be lightly affected by chamber geometry, which means the test here only covers LS heads. As an aside... I hate dealing with autozone. I have gone in with manufacturers part number in hand only to receive dumb looks [since their training stops at year/make/model], and to add insult to injury I get told to go look up their unique in-house part # on THEIR website so they can "look it up" in store. Preposterous business model if you'e a hot rodder. If there is one thing I like about E3, its that design forces a more asymmetrical flame kernel compared to traditional design. What I don't like about E3 is their website - no filter to drill down on reach, sealing design etc. Also... no downloadable catalog that I could find. I guess the NHRA guys all have to call? Aftermarket heads do not fit in the year/make/model box
All it does is have more sharp edges than a normal plug, and plugs like to fire from a sharp edge. Tbh I've seen more runability issues because of them, so I'll swap in standard plugs and retest the problem.
once again Richard comes in and kills the placebo effect ...awesome job! but if you've ever change the spark plugs on a 6-cylinder Subaru, you'll value iridium long lasting spark plugs.
Great test, I'm loving this ignition system testing since it's so applicable to so many different setups. You are the first person I have seen dyno test indexing and gapping spark plugs. If I may suggest some future tests, I think "high performance" coils, performance plug wires, side gapping the spark plugs, and different oil grades and types would be great information for a lot of people too.
Autolite plugs are used in some sports cars. Plus they have a 4,000 oms resistance. Which is less than other plugs. Giving you more stronger spark at the tip.
I have a naturally aspirated LS7 that I have ran NGK TR6 spark plugs in platinum and copper variety at the same gap. I noticed the copper plug seemed to change the exhaust sound when revving up from idle, like it had more power as it swept through the revs. I didn't think much of it and installed a fresh set of platinum TR6 plugs a few months later. The sound and ease of revving from idle was reduced. This year I removed the platinum plugs and put in a set of copper TR6 plugs, hey guess what...the sound is back when revving from idle, sounds meaner. Your test definitely helped shed some light on subtle gains. On the chassis dyno though I didn't notice any gains that stood out at peak hp, maybe 0.5 to 1 hp at peak hp between the 2 materials, similar to what you showed.
I switched out the standard NGK UR-5's with compatible E-3's at the track in my mid-12 second(at the time) Buick 455 and saw basically nothing after the switch. MSD 6AL ignition. Luckily I got the E3's off E-Bay for a reasonable price compared to the usual local prices. Kept them in just because and they still run fine a few years later.
Richard! I have a 6.0 in my 2003 SS sjlverado to start off with, l pulled out the Platt. 1month old plugs, put in E3's no other mods! I could feel the difference Right away! in The seat of pants feel! Ran Better,started easer, PICKED UP AT LEAST 1.3MPG! AGAIN NO OTHER THINGS ON THE TRUCK TOUCHED! PUT A SET E3'S IN MY WIFE'S AVALANCHE W/5.3, SAME DEAL YOU CAN FEEL THE EXTRA POWER IN THE SEAT OF PANTS! also some mpg!
@@richardholdener1727 hay Richard, picked out a distance, backand forth With repeated it, with e3's and before with platt.plugs 4trips average With my truck Computer and by calculator! Always 1.mpg To 1. 3 and as much as 1. 4mpg. With different weather!
I won a set of 16 E3 plugs at a car show over in Adel Ga 6.7 years ago at southern Mopar week. Just ram across em cleaning out a box of old stuff in the shop and came in to look up this video. Guess it’s just money savings for next plug change being plugs are crazy high now days.
wow the cheap plugs did great. i made a comment about arc blowout a while ago. i said that the arc gets blown out. iv seen arc blow out when the arc travels a long distance. However, i did try to blow out the arc from my arc lighter using compressed air. The arc never went out. the arc would bend and deform but would never go out. so i learned something. thank you.
Ran e3 on our 2007 Tahoe for almost 4yrs ran fine. A couple months ago we did a tune up and changed our the 4yr old e3s for new e3s along with new coils and wires. Runs great everytime no issues no need to deal with needing to gap the plugs. Plus you get a nice exhaust pops after you rev it up.
Very informative video! At the end of the day, a spark plug is designed to ignite fuel/air mixture. They either will or they won't. The way I see it, the design/material the center and ground electrodes are made of can dictate the longevity of the plugs. And, with the way the factories are hiding the plugs on a lot of the engines, I personally want a plug to last AS LONG AS POSSIBLE!! 😀
Watching the video, sitting in my tahoe, running with a head and cam swap, and the factory original ac delco spark plugs with 253xxx miles on it. With the head and cam swap at 175xxx. Buddy asked me if i was buying new plugs. I said, these are still working perfect... they are still working perfect today. Pretty wild.
The previous owner of my 6.0L truck installed the e3 diamonds not long before selling and within 6 months they were misfiring. I also tried Bosch +4 plugs when I was a dumb kid on a 4.3L work truck and they just misfired out of the box. I have since just assumed all gimmick sounding spark plugs are going to be garbage. If NGK sells a standard plug for the application, I am going to use them.
Did all that 15 years ago! Same results! Upgrade the coil to make sure they got a good spark! That seemed to make your runs consistent! And, most guys are probably running a carb bigger than they need!
Only place to use those expensive iridium plugs are on a Ford 4.6/5.4L engine. The plugs always break trying to replace them because of a terrible design, so put the longest life span plugs you can find in them when replacing them.
I used e3 here the last change in both vehicles about 6 months ago.(Wifes truck and my car) Really depends on how you drive for how long they last. She's a conservative driver. Her plugs still look great. And my car sees the redline a lot! And are in need of a change again.
I had iridium plugs get the tips rounded off, and never figured out why. That was on a bone stock car. I put new iridiums back in and checked it 20K miles later. They were fine. The last two cylinders are hard to reach, and I'm gonna leave it that way. -- Otherwise, I just run copper. I understand that copper plugs don't last as long, but haven't managed to wear out a set. -- Yeah, I've had no-start situations and check engine lights that were fixed by putting new plugs in, but for all I know, the plugs could have had some sort of defect.
I work with CNG heavy duty engines that use the 3 ground electrodes with a tiny gap. The 3 prongs and tiny gap are designed to keep the ionization of molecules from being blown out. On a gasoline engine I would assume no difference unless under high boost with high swirl combustion chambers. So there is a place for fancy spark plugs but not an LS.
Over 40 years working on cars. These are some of the problems I've run a crossed. 2 Mopars, one with a slant 6 and the other a 360 that wouldn't start with champion plugs but ran ok with autolites. 3 Fords with point distributors that wouldn't start or missed like hell because the distributor lost ground. Despite the fact the distributor has contact with the oil pump, cam and block and a new ground wire for the point plate to the distributor. A simple ground wire running to the distributor solved the problem. 3 cars with severe misses because the tech used way too much gray anti seize on the plug threads. Cleaned them and the plug holes and use a very small amount of the same anti seize and problem solved.
I have a set of E3's to go in my 4200 Atlas but my guru homeboy on the west coast said go back with the AC Delco Iridiums & let it ride! I removed the AD Delco Iridiums that were in there when I bought my 2005 Trailblazer LS & I had 130,000 miles at the time I pulled the plugs & they were the OE plugs & WOW, none were fouled, just worn! I was changing the coils & figured why not throw a fresh set of plugs while I had gone that far. It was running smooth but I wanted to know how the plugs looked anyway since I had bought it at 124,000 miles. New plugs & coils & Wix filters, Dynomax Super Turbo muffler & resonator delete with a set of double walled stainless steel tips out back & she is running primo smooth 🥰 Also have Marvel Mystery oil in the engine & 1oz mix in with every fill up of 93 octane. When I mash on it she doesn't hesitate! Cold air & tune next🥰👍🏿
Like the Frank's Red Hot Sauce commercial, "I use that shiz on everything." Living in the rust belt, it's a must. And that big jug that Richard showed, best bang for the buck. I bought the nickel version and it actually wipes off you hands unlike the silver stuff. Jug has lasted me over a decade.
For longtivity I've always found aoutolight and motorcraft to last the longest. Champions always came up short. Used e3 in an old dodge 5.2 that lasted a long time but 2 plugs had failed.
Hey Richard, love your videos as always. I will say that Iridium and Platinum plugs have slightly different intents, as well as the new Ruthenium plugs. Would really enjoy a comparison between Copper, Platinum, Iridium, and Ruthenium all from the same brand. NGK would be the brand obviously. Iridium plugs are used in racing, Ruthenium are supposed to be sort of a jack of all trades. I suspect there would be few differences in a single dyno run vs a high stressed engine under endurance conditions, but would be interesting to see.
Once again a great dyno test run video. Take a look at when exotic type plug became more common place . It seemed to be when OBDII became the standard in 1996. With this system part of it was a vehicle that would remain clean running for 100k before needing significant service to the engine. The exotic type metals would do this. Copper plugs did the job for 75 plus years before o.e. install was a exotic metal type. I welcome other thoughts and observations on this.
Had a high compression Buck 350 in a 1972 skylark. It was torquey and responsive. Had to have platinum plugs or it would zap the spark plugs and burn the oil up. Ran pump gas.
I tested at the track chapion spark plugs vs E3 plugs. Didn't pick up anything, it ran the same ET and MPH. Weather didn't change , cloudy day. My reaction time was .002 and .000. Cheap plugs rule!
I’ve tried the E3 plugs twice and they aren’t reliable. One set in a Sportster and it would shut down on me and the other set in a Echo blower and it wouldn’t crank back up after it got hot. Put the old plugs back and still running. The only reason I changed them to the E3 was I just figured it was time to change the plug, but it was running fine.
Ive noticed when tuning iridium is more susceptible to knock with aggressive timing. Although it idles better than copper and seems to have more response down low in the rpms. I agree the main trade off is useful life. I recommend copper for track cars and iridium for pure street cars
I would like to see the same brands. Like laser ngk copper ngk ect. I dont think it'll make a difference but i figure it's worth a check. I run ngk in my b16a allmotor only thing i change is the nuber i run 7s in winter and 6s in the summer Tyvm 4 all your content very helpful
13 years ago my local distributor gave me a set of 16 I put them in my hemi. I still have 14 of them in there to the day in 13 years I’ve only had two of them go bad. One of them was only three months old it went to a dead mess at 3000 RPM the other one I replaced about two years ago it had quit firing all together it runs no different and it currently has 14 E3’s and two champions.
The irridium plus or pro (that have irridium on top and bottom) last a loooooooooooong time. I have a 14 civic and the plugs lasted 292,000 miles when one finally started miss-firing. I pulled them all out and swapped for the same. The old plugs looked just as new as the new plugs with ZERO wear on electrodes. The car never lost mpg and never had any missfires right up to the point one failed. They cost $30ea at the honda dealer though, so quite pricey.
I have not watched the video, but personally E3s are not my thing, in fact I ended up with random misfires, when we tried them on Dyno...Gimmick like Splitfire, or complete BS like Pulstar... The thing that any multiple ground electrode spark plug does, is *they last longer* electricity takes shortest path no matter what, so, when Electrode #1 is worn wider than #2 or #3 or #4 then it will Arc to one of those...Making them last longer with a certain amount of redundancy...Aircraft has used this since the 60s or 70s.
Copper is the most conductive but also the softest metal and will wear the fastest. There's always trade offs in life. The Ultra Irderpium plugs are for stock engines that have the hood opened once every 100k. Thanks again Richard. Funny how the E3 sponsored dyno shows make more power **cough** PowerNation **cough**.
Just had a customer with a supercharged 5.7 Hemi come in today. Said he put a new exhaust on and wanted to retune, particularly because he picked up a misfire on the top end after the exhaust. I was perplexed. Didn't think the new exhaust would make that big of a difference. Short story - it didn't. Customer also replaced his plugs with the E3 units, using the as delivered plug gap. Yeah - don't do that.
I got Diamondfires for my 1MZ-FE recently firing a parts gun at a developing backfire issue, they seem to work pretty well so far. Granted, when I pulled the old ones out it became clear to me that they had seen the full 316,925 miles that this engine has run in its 21 years, horridly burned up, with tons of transfer deposits on both the ground and electrode, and about a third of the ground literally burned away judging by how thick the spark point was compared to the arm leading up to it. I didn't think that the diamondfire thing would do much of anything power wise, and this video kind of shows that is the case normally, but coming from the plugs that were in there, with how out of spec they had become after running for so long, I am actually seeing some extra power out of them. As for fuel economy, I can't say anything yet as they've only been in for about a day and one short drive to make sure everything worked at least as well as before, though I didn't get to test the driving conditions that I was getting backfire through yet. I'm not saying to get diamondfires or laser platinums, just, don't be like the original owner of my '03 Avalon, do more regular maintenance than just oil changes.
Msd said to use the cheap copper core plugs not to use any of them other ones because the different materials are made of light up like a disel glow plug they called them hype plugs
i just changed my plugs in my 2015 6.0 last week and they have 163,000 and look great! they went right in the boxes the new ones came in,i will be saving them for start up plugs for our junk yard 5.3 swap project! :)
there is no hotter spark-the spark temp is the same-you either initiate the flame front or you don't-don't look for power changes in plug gap-except to eliminate misfire in boosted applications (where you reduce gap)-gap might help MPG at lower engine speeds and light throttle angles
Yes & no. Since high voltage is an odd beast a multimeter is not necessarily useful - measuring peak current would be the only real world proof. The interesting thing I stumbled upon years ago is that aviation plugs tend to favor being roughly 2/3 the resistance of automotive design. Maybe an engineer or intrepid flyer can explain why.
From what I've read, indexing and plug construction is that last 0.1% you are looking to find. And sometimes that last .1% is worth the effort when you are racing. Certainly not worth all the effort on a 100% road driven sports car. Have you looked at the difference between copper resistive and copper non-resistor plugs? Maybe in combination with resistor and non-resistor wires? Wondering if the resistor changes the spark enough to see a change.
From the testing i have done, non resistor spark plugs generated a stronger spark. I have a video of testing that on my channel. The problem is the interference from using Nology non resistor spark plugs messed with my ECU.
You would expect more spark energy, but probably not a huge amount. Jumping a 1mm (0.040") gap at 10 bar (150 psi) of pressure takes about 30k volts. A typical resistor plug might have 5kohms of resistance, and if you have a plug wire (like an LS engine) that's probably another 4-5kohm or more. That means that you're generating no more than 3 amps of peak current and that's only during the initial ionization of the plug. Theoretically less resistance could result in a better initial ionization event, but the RFI as Avery says is a big deal on modern electronics.
@@ChurchAutoTest How did you figure out that an ignition coil will output up to 3 amps of current? For the output current to be that high, wouldn't the input current need to be very high too? A typical output voltage of 30kV X 3 amps is 90,000 watts. At 12 volts, 90,000 watts would be 7,500 amps and there's no way a coil could draw so much on the input side.
I like the E3 plugs for normal use ! they do not like high voltage coil packs ! The ceramic insulator will start to leak to the base causing a misfire !
Your results are what I expected. However it is interesting that one of your colleagues, Jim McFarland, was involved in the development and testing of E3 plugs. He published a number of scientific papers on the differences in burn initiation and flame propagation compared with a conventional J-plug. There is an interesting video done at Michigan Tech demonstrating the benefits of the design. I suspect that the weaker the ignition system the more likely they would be to show a benefit but, as your test showed, today's high power ignitions will fire anything.
I recall reading about an individual coil retrofit on a 5.7 vortec (sbc) and they had pretty substantial gains in the mid range. That's likely why there was no big gain here, the LS has plenty of spark. My own experince with LS's running fine with rounded copper plugs with >0.080" gap supports that idea.
copper is a much better conducter than those exotic metals. so the copper plug will actually make a hotter and bigger spark which means combustion will be just a tad better. but they will not last nearly as long as the exotic metal plugs will. a fuel economy and combustion chamber deposit comparison would have been very interesting. would have also been interesting just to see the plugs fired side by side outside of the engine.
Now throw in a set of Bosch super plugs. They are the 1 plug I have seen kill the performance of more than 1 engine. When I worked for Dodge I lost track of how many times a car would come in running rough and low on power after a tune-up, pull the plugs to find the super cheap Bosch supers in there, swap in a set of used plugs, and the engine runs like new.
My grandfather who owned and ran a service station post WWII always said the air and fuel doesn't care what's making the spark. As long as it's the right heat range, it doesn't care. Seems like he was right.
Man Richard preaching what I've been saying for years. I managed a parts store for about 10 years and always preached this info.
All plugs if firing will make the same power. The difference in high dollar plugs is that the expensive alloy plugs will last longer without burning out and fouling as quickly as something like copper plugs.
The NGK Lazer series plugs are designed with oem companies to be the best plug and are usually the OEM installed plugs.
The only way to change how much power is Made is by changing cylinder pressure, either done by combustion chamber design or by forced or chemical induction.
Copper is an ideal conductor. It's the reason your home uses copper wire. But in an engine it will burn away eventually.
I run cheap ngk plugs in everything. Vehicles and ATVs runs great like they should.
If its a powersports item from Japan or Europe, it gets NGK plugs.
Some of them are more sensitive about it for things he's not testing here...
@@TravisFabel I ride Suzuki and drive Dodge. They work great
Another smart mechanic,Its funny when I send people to the local O'Reilly and they try to push whatever junk plugs they have an excess of/Bosch/autolite Platinum whatever,then they get a dumb founded look when I say nope a want the cheapest ngk plug you have,I've put them in everything including a 367k ls that burned a quart plus a day n never had issues!
Same. Good to read the plugs every 15k anyways
I don't consider ngk to be "cheap" plugs. They aren't a stupid rip off(or maybe not,we'll see) like the iridium and whatever they try to sell you. Ngk are great.
Ive run copper cores in all my gen 3 applications since the early 2000s. Local tuner found " a strange small but repeated midrange power increase" with them. I guess this just confirms his statement.
Less resistence in the ignition system under compression allows the field coil to collapse and release the maximum power with the least energy wasted from resistence using copper over other exotic metals..., metal to metal... Copper is the best comparatively. Exotic metals were introduced due to the mess the emissions control equipment created and access to spark plugs so using these exotic metal plugs allows longer periods between plug changes... Not any more power, as evidenced here
Copper plugs don't last as long, after 60k miles an iridium plug will be making more power. I run copper where changing them is easy or on power adder engines. A dozen copper plugs are usually cheaper than one iridium, plus there's no chance you're getting a chinese clone.
@@hydrocarbon82 , i do my plugs every 50k so it isnt an issue anyway. I can get the coppers at 30% the price of the platinums so even changing them twice as much im saving money
I've always said if your engine is running right with the right mixture and timing it only takes one spark to get it going!
Tried those E3 plugs in my new (at the time) 08 F150. Kept getting random misfires and sluggish performance, went back to the factory recommended platinum tip plug and the truck ran fine.
Use iridium plugs, but don't use those multi tipped plugs. OEM ignition systems can't saturate the coils enough to warrant using them, and yes, they are prone to setting off misfire codes.
I know there is electronic feedback to the computer for fire.
Plugs firing to different electrodes may send slightly diff signals.
Maybe telling computer to adjust parameters.
The factory spent time and research to know what’s (or which is) best.
Because they do not want to burden the shops, or get a bad rep.
@@tomreyn3610 Yeah, which is why I was going to say there's nothing wrong with "double platinum" plugs to the poster above. That's what GM recommended in MANY engines before switching to iridium. Edit: OH, he meant multi-tipped (as he said). I agree, that multi-tip stuff is a huge gimmick. It always fires from one tip, anyways.
I'm here because I bought 6x AC Delco Professional Iridium plugs for a 2000 Buick Park Ave with the 3800 Series II engine. The copper plugs in it (don't ask, I was dumber 15 years ago) when I put them into said Buick. It was my grandmother's (mine now). 2 of them started missing a month ago. Was getting misfire codes on cylinder 4 and 5. Driver side front and rear. I pulled out plug 5 (driver side front) and the "copper core" there was almost completely gone lol. Had about 38k miles on it. I know to change them at 20k, or that's the recommendation, but it had been so long, I forgot my stupid self opted for copper for "moar power."
Now I have to go through the PITA of changing those plugs. The front ones are easy, of course. But, anyways, I went with the iridium. It was right around this year model (2000) that they went from recommending double platinum to iridium... so I just went iridium. I'll sell this car before these plugs go out.
OH.. and they had went from a .055 gap to a .07+ gap in that 35-38k miles. Wow...
But I may continue running copper plugs in my 86 F-150 5.0 EFI. Easy to change. Not sure if it would hurt anything going to iridium, though. If not, I'll just go with iridium. I have the timing bumped up and run 93 octane in it. I'll read into it it sometime.
I've used them on a few vehicles. They are best suited for older carbureted vehicles. I did use them on a 97 thunderbird though, and it didn't even want to run at first. After I disconnected the battery a while to hard reset the ecm, it was fine and performance/mpg showed small gains.
I did that in a 2011 Fiesta. Immediately put the factory plugs back in and the misfire went away.
I’ve ran a set of e3 spark plug’s in my 63 Chevy 283 m/t two wheel drive pick up truck for years I think I got them when they first became available to purchase I replaced them because the factory plugs were fouling from leaking valve seals and would have to be pulled weekly and cleaned after putting the e3 plugs in I’ve never pulled them I still have the points distributer and oil bath air cleaner so for me they are great
I always use the autolite copper plugs.
I'm glad to finally see E3s on the dyno. I am a tiny bit surprised. I've always suspected they would actually KILL a little power, due to the shrouding by the numerous and massive ground electrodes.
They can work alright, but they do not last long. I wouldn't give more than 6-12 months on them before misfiring. They seem to work better than Bosch +4's but just about any standard plug from any manufacturer would work better.
@@The_Fat_Turtle I have no idea where the Hate for +4s comes from....I put a set in My Chevy W/T with Vortec V6 when doing the tune up at 100K....I checked them at 200K and they were still good, at 286,000 miles when the body became unsafe for road use due to rust, the +4s were still in it, Now its a Farm Truck that gets used for wood hauling, it was -15F yesterday and it fired right up...there is over 180,000 miles on those plugs and they still run like new.
The variances will be lightly affected by chamber geometry, which means the test here only covers LS heads. As an aside... I hate dealing with autozone. I have gone in with manufacturers part number in hand only to receive dumb looks [since their training stops at year/make/model], and to add insult to injury I get told to go look up their unique in-house part # on THEIR website so they can "look it up" in store. Preposterous business model if you'e a hot rodder. If there is one thing I like about E3, its that design forces a more asymmetrical flame kernel compared to traditional design. What I don't like about E3 is their website - no filter to drill down on reach, sealing design etc. Also... no downloadable catalog that I could find. I guess the NHRA guys all have to call? Aftermarket heads do not fit in the year/make/model box
All it does is have more sharp edges than a normal plug, and plugs like to fire from a sharp edge.
Tbh I've seen more runability issues because of them, so I'll swap in standard plugs and retest the problem.
@@flinch622 that's the reason they are known as "autoidiots"
once again Richard comes in and kills the placebo effect ...awesome job!
but if you've ever change the spark plugs on a 6-cylinder Subaru, you'll value iridium long lasting spark plugs.
Same for a 351C with long tubes in a first gen Mustang. PITA to change!
I run ACdelco iridiums, never had an issue.
Great test, I'm loving this ignition system testing since it's so applicable to so many different setups. You are the first person I have seen dyno test indexing and gapping spark plugs. If I may suggest some future tests, I think "high performance" coils, performance plug wires, side gapping the spark plugs, and different oil grades and types would be great information for a lot of people too.
Could you ask about more things that don't change much at all
I’d like to add spark plug wire length. Is the shortest the best or like indexing does having them all the same length help.
COILS-NOTHING, PLUG WIRES-NOTHING, SIDE GAP-NOTHING, OIL TEST POSTING TODAY
@@richardholdener1727 Sweet, looking forward to that video!
Man I wanted this test for years to be done
Autolite plugs are used in some sports cars. Plus they have a 4,000 oms resistance. Which is less than other plugs. Giving you more stronger spark at the tip.
I have a naturally aspirated LS7 that I have ran NGK TR6 spark plugs in platinum and copper variety at the same gap.
I noticed the copper plug seemed to change the exhaust sound when revving up from idle, like it had more power as it swept through the revs.
I didn't think much of it and installed a fresh set of platinum TR6 plugs a few months later. The sound and ease of revving from idle was reduced.
This year I removed the platinum plugs and put in a set of copper TR6 plugs, hey guess what...the sound is back when revving from idle, sounds meaner.
Your test definitely helped shed some light on subtle gains. On the chassis dyno though I didn't notice any gains that stood out at peak hp, maybe 0.5 to 1 hp at peak hp between the 2 materials, similar to what you showed.
I switched out the standard NGK UR-5's with compatible E-3's at the track in my mid-12 second(at the time) Buick 455 and saw basically nothing after the switch. MSD 6AL ignition. Luckily I got the E3's off E-Bay for a reasonable price compared to the usual local prices. Kept them in just because and they still run fine a few years later.
Richard! I have a 6.0 in my 2003 SS sjlverado to start off with, l pulled out the Platt. 1month old plugs, put in E3's no other mods!
I could feel the difference Right away! in
The seat of pants feel! Ran
Better,started easer, PICKED UP AT LEAST 1.3MPG!
AGAIN NO OTHER THINGS ON THE TRUCK TOUCHED!
PUT A SET E3'S IN MY WIFE'S AVALANCHE W/5.3, SAME DEAL YOU CAN FEEL THE
EXTRA POWER IN THE SEAT OF PANTS! also some mpg!
no on the power, I would like to see your test procedure for mpg
@@richardholdener1727 hay Richard, picked out a distance, backand forth
With repeated it, with e3's and before with platt.plugs 4trips average
With my truck
Computer and by calculator! Always 1.mpg
To 1. 3 and as much as 1. 4mpg. With different weather!
I won a set of 16 E3 plugs at a car show over in Adel Ga 6.7 years ago at southern Mopar week. Just ram across em cleaning out a box of old stuff in the shop and came in to look up this video. Guess it’s just money savings for next plug change being plugs are crazy high now days.
they work-especially when they are free-they just don't add power
@@richardholdener1727 😂 I’ll use em next change on something
Thank you for finally putting advertising to rest!! The gap was way more revealing than the advertising!! Thanks Rich please keep on testing!!
Thanks Richard.. That is the kind of testing we have seen KNOW WHERE else
wow the cheap plugs did great. i made a comment about arc blowout a while ago. i said that the arc gets blown out. iv seen arc blow out when the arc travels a long distance. However, i did try to blow out the arc from my arc lighter using compressed air. The arc never went out. the arc would bend and deform but would never go out. so i learned something. thank you.
I had spark blow out but I was boosted at 24 psi I was having issues with spark blow out it is an issue
Ran e3 on our 2007 Tahoe for almost 4yrs ran fine. A couple months ago we did a tune up and changed our the 4yr old e3s for new e3s along with new coils and wires.
Runs great everytime no issues no need to deal with needing to gap the plugs. Plus you get a nice exhaust pops after you rev it up.
Spark plug change causing exhaust to pop after accelerating isn’t what I’d consider “runs great”. 😂
I back cut the ground strap on my autolite and ngk copper plugs and that's my best combo.
Very informative video! At the end of the day, a spark plug is designed to ignite fuel/air mixture. They either will or they won't. The way I see it, the design/material the center and ground electrodes are made of can dictate the longevity of the plugs. And, with the way the factories are hiding the plugs on a lot of the engines, I personally want a plug to last AS LONG AS POSSIBLE!! 😀
Thanks for doing this. For the cost I always wondered about the e3 plugs
Watching the video, sitting in my tahoe, running with a head and cam swap, and the factory original ac delco spark plugs with 253xxx miles on it. With the head and cam swap at 175xxx. Buddy asked me if i was buying new plugs. I said, these are still working perfect... they are still working perfect today. Pretty wild.
I want friggin sharks with friggin spark plugs attached to their friggin heads!
WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS
I watched another test with a similar premise done by David Vizard. He speaks highly of you. 👍
DAVID VIZARD IS GOOD PEOPLE-EVERYONE GO WATCH HIS CHANNEL
The previous owner of my 6.0L truck installed the e3 diamonds not long before selling and within 6 months they were misfiring. I also tried Bosch +4 plugs when I was a dumb kid on a 4.3L work truck and they just misfired out of the box. I have since just assumed all gimmick sounding spark plugs are going to be garbage. If NGK sells a standard plug for the application, I am going to use them.
You should do a test video of Pulstar spark plugs.
Used E3 in my lawn tractor. Misfired like crazy. I switched to NGK,back to normal. No more E3 for me!
Did all that 15 years ago! Same results! Upgrade the coil to make sure they got a good spark! That seemed to make your runs consistent! And, most guys are probably running a carb bigger than they need!
Only place to use those expensive iridium plugs are on a Ford 4.6/5.4L engine. The plugs always break trying to replace them because of a terrible design, so put the longest life span plugs you can find in them when replacing them.
I take credit for the idea behind this video, love it!
I used e3 here the last change in both vehicles about 6 months ago.(Wifes truck and my car) Really depends on how you drive for how long they last. She's a conservative driver. Her plugs still look great. And my car sees the redline a lot! And are in need of a change again.
Seen several sets e3 cause miss fires n daily drivers wasn’t immediate but was soon after install don’t remember how many miles.
Excellent test to backup old knowledge. If the ignition system is working properly, plugs and/or wires will not increase power production.
I find that iridium are always the best. I use these in all my engines.
I had iridium plugs get the tips rounded off, and never figured out why. That was on a bone stock car. I put new iridiums back in and checked it 20K miles later. They were fine. The last two cylinders are hard to reach, and I'm gonna leave it that way.
-- Otherwise, I just run copper. I understand that copper plugs don't last as long, but haven't managed to wear out a set.
-- Yeah, I've had no-start situations and check engine lights that were fixed by putting new plugs in, but for all I know, the plugs could have had some sort of defect.
Od love to see some ruthenium HX sparkplugs be compared as well to any of these
I work with CNG heavy duty engines that use the 3 ground electrodes with a tiny gap. The 3 prongs and tiny gap are designed to keep the ionization of molecules from being blown out. On a gasoline engine I would assume no difference unless under high boost with high swirl combustion chambers. So there is a place for fancy spark plugs but not an LS.
Over 40 years working on cars. These are some of the problems I've run a crossed. 2 Mopars, one with a slant 6 and the other a 360 that wouldn't start with champion plugs but ran ok with autolites. 3 Fords with point distributors that wouldn't start or missed like hell because the distributor lost ground. Despite the fact the distributor has contact with the oil pump, cam and block and a new ground wire for the point plate to the distributor. A simple ground wire running to the distributor solved the problem. 3 cars with severe misses because the tech used way too much gray anti seize on the plug threads. Cleaned them and the plug holes and use a very small amount of the same anti seize and problem solved.
I would like to see if on a warm out oil burning engine that is fouling plugs if there is a difference.
I have a set of E3's to go in my 4200 Atlas but my guru homeboy on the west coast said go back with the AC Delco Iridiums & let it ride! I removed the AD Delco Iridiums that were in there when I bought my 2005 Trailblazer LS & I had 130,000 miles at the time I pulled the plugs & they were the OE plugs & WOW, none were fouled, just worn! I was changing the coils & figured why not throw a fresh set of plugs while I had gone that far. It was running smooth but I wanted to know how the plugs looked anyway since I had bought it at 124,000 miles. New plugs & coils & Wix filters, Dynomax Super Turbo muffler & resonator delete with a set of double walled stainless steel tips out back & she is running primo smooth 🥰 Also have Marvel Mystery oil in the engine & 1oz mix in with every fill up of 93 octane. When I mash on it she doesn't hesitate! Cold air & tune next🥰👍🏿
“Like cologne, a little goes a long ways.”😂 Great life advice. Appreciate all that you do sir 👍🏻
Like the Frank's Red Hot Sauce commercial, "I use that shiz on everything." Living in the rust belt, it's a must. And that big jug that Richard showed, best bang for the buck. I bought the nickel version and it actually wipes off you hands unlike the silver stuff. Jug has lasted me over a decade.
@@button-puncher -Living in the woods ya gotta buy it in bulk and know how much you have!
Mantap sekali mempromosikan barang mesin pasti bagus sekali
For longtivity I've always found aoutolight and motorcraft to last the longest. Champions always came up short. Used e3 in an old dodge 5.2 that lasted a long time but 2 plugs had failed.
Hey Richard, love your videos as always. I will say that Iridium and Platinum plugs have slightly different intents, as well as the new Ruthenium plugs. Would really enjoy a comparison between Copper, Platinum, Iridium, and Ruthenium all from the same brand. NGK would be the brand obviously. Iridium plugs are used in racing, Ruthenium are supposed to be sort of a jack of all trades. I suspect there would be few differences in a single dyno run vs a high stressed engine under endurance conditions, but would be interesting to see.
don't look for any power change from plugs-unless misfire
I wonder if there would be any difference if it was running with a massive shot of nitrous and/or a ton of boost
This is awesome Richard I have been needing to change my spark plugs but which one to choose
Once again a great dyno test run video. Take a look at when exotic type plug became more common place . It seemed to be when OBDII became the standard in 1996. With this system part of it was a vehicle that would remain clean running for 100k before needing significant service to the engine. The exotic type metals would do this. Copper plugs did the job for 75 plus years before o.e. install was a exotic metal type. I welcome other thoughts and observations on this.
I've been waiting for someone to do this to compare fancy to standard.
Had a high compression Buck 350 in a 1972 skylark. It was torquey and responsive. Had to have platinum plugs or it would zap the spark plugs and burn the oil up. Ran pump gas.
I tested at the track chapion spark plugs vs E3 plugs.
Didn't pick up anything, it ran the same ET and MPH.
Weather didn't change , cloudy day. My reaction time was .002 and .000.
Cheap plugs rule!
I still run the plugs my cylinder heads were designed and engineered with.
I’ve tried the E3 plugs twice and they aren’t reliable. One set in a Sportster and it would shut down on me and the other set in a Echo blower and it wouldn’t crank back up after it got hot. Put the old plugs back and still running. The only reason I changed them to the E3 was I just figured it was time to change the plug, but it was running fine.
Ive noticed when tuning iridium is more susceptible to knock with aggressive timing. Although it idles better than copper and seems to have more response down low in the rpms. I agree the main trade off is useful life. I recommend copper for track cars and iridium for pure street cars
I would like to see the same brands. Like laser ngk copper ngk ect. I dont think it'll make a difference but i figure it's worth a check. I run ngk in my b16a allmotor only thing i change is the nuber i run 7s in winter and 6s in the summer Tyvm 4 all your content very helpful
I love these comparison videos
13 years ago my local distributor gave me a set of 16 I put them in my hemi. I still have 14 of them in there to the day in 13 years I’ve only had two of them go bad. One of them was only three months old it went to a dead mess at 3000 RPM the other one I replaced about two years ago it had quit firing all together it runs no different and it currently has 14 E3’s and two champions.
The irridium plus or pro (that have irridium on top and bottom) last a loooooooooooong time. I have a 14 civic and the plugs lasted 292,000 miles when one finally started miss-firing. I pulled them all out and swapped for the same. The old plugs looked just as new as the new plugs with ZERO wear on electrodes. The car never lost mpg and never had any missfires right up to the point one failed.
They cost $30ea at the honda dealer though, so quite pricey.
Fascinating results! I wonder, though, if you might see more difference at lower rpm, part throttle, or BSFC or something. Everyday driving scenarios.
I used to use AC Delco. On nitrous the plug would melt way before the piston!
Awesome test, I've always wondered about his.
I have not watched the video, but personally E3s are not my thing, in fact I ended up with random misfires, when we tried them on Dyno...Gimmick like Splitfire, or complete BS like Pulstar... The thing that any multiple ground electrode spark plug does, is *they last longer* electricity takes shortest path no matter what, so, when Electrode #1 is worn wider than #2 or #3 or #4 then it will Arc to one of those...Making them last longer with a certain amount of redundancy...Aircraft has used this since the 60s or 70s.
I ran e3 for years never had a problem I even run them in my Harley
Hey Richard, any chance to see a test of different ls ignition coils? Like stock vs eBay vs smart coils vs etc.
I use what's recommended when I have an OEM ECU. Aftermarket ECU I run NGK Copper.
Couldn't you test economy at running a static rpm with measured fuel Over time?
Call me crazy but I think the Denso TT spark plugs are the best performance plugs available
Copper is the most conductive but also the softest metal and will wear the fastest. There's always trade offs in life. The Ultra Irderpium plugs are for stock engines that have the hood opened once every 100k.
Thanks again Richard. Funny how the E3 sponsored dyno shows make more power **cough** PowerNation **cough**.
Great test !! 😎
How about oil weight power difference on the Dyno and seeing if lighter weight or heavier weight changes oil temps drastically as well.
Are the junkyard ones you used copper core ? They seem to do alright and who know how old they are .
1st run warmed up the engine oil and everything else.....good plugs tho...
It would be awsome if you did a coolant additive test......like redline water wetter ect . I think it would be a great vid.
Just had a customer with a supercharged 5.7 Hemi come in today. Said he put a new exhaust on and wanted to retune, particularly because he picked up a misfire on the top end after the exhaust. I was perplexed. Didn't think the new exhaust would make that big of a difference. Short story - it didn't. Customer also replaced his plugs with the E3 units, using the as delivered plug gap. Yeah - don't do that.
GOOD CATCH
Im running NGK plugs in 04 8.1 silverado 3500 srw. Over a year now so far so good . 35" gap from fact.
I got Diamondfires for my 1MZ-FE recently firing a parts gun at a developing backfire issue, they seem to work pretty well so far.
Granted, when I pulled the old ones out it became clear to me that they had seen the full 316,925 miles that this engine has run in its 21 years, horridly burned up, with tons of transfer deposits on both the ground and electrode, and about a third of the ground literally burned away judging by how thick the spark point was compared to the arm leading up to it.
I didn't think that the diamondfire thing would do much of anything power wise, and this video kind of shows that is the case normally, but coming from the plugs that were in there, with how out of spec they had become after running for so long, I am actually seeing some extra power out of them. As for fuel economy, I can't say anything yet as they've only been in for about a day and one short drive to make sure everything worked at least as well as before, though I didn't get to test the driving conditions that I was getting backfire through yet.
I'm not saying to get diamondfires or laser platinums, just, don't be like the original owner of my '03 Avalon, do more regular maintenance than just oil changes.
Curious if running boost would bring out any differences in the plugs. Such as spark stability/ miss-fire.
Msd said to use the cheap copper core plugs not to use any of them other ones because the different materials are made of light up like a disel glow plug they called them hype plugs
Project farm tested plugs and the e3s actually were more fuel efficient. Pretty wild test
I love project farm-but would like to see much more data
Myth busted! Great video Richard! Looks like I need to find some OEM used plugs to get the best bang for the buck…
I DO LIKE JUNKYARD PLUGS! SOMETIMES WE FIND FRESH ONES!
I had E3's in 94 454 lasted 1 year then had misfires put autolite coppers in and ran great for 6 years b4 pulling motor for rebuild
i just changed my plugs in my 2015 6.0 last week and they have 163,000 and look great! they went right in the boxes the new ones came in,i will be saving them for start up plugs for our junk yard 5.3 swap project! :)
@Richardholdener sounds like a scam
To my ears the entire and the lasers, sounded mutch smoother than any of the others.
Typo
YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO ACTUAL RUNS
You may have done it but I’d be curious on testing LS plug gap. GMs original 60 thousandths vs GMs revised gap at 40 thousandths.
makes no difference if no misfire occurs
@@richardholdener1727 the hotter spark of the 60 thousands gap I’d think would help?
@@richardholdener1727 just searched and saw you have a LS plug gap video. I’ll go watch it now.
there is no hotter spark-the spark temp is the same-you either initiate the flame front or you don't-don't look for power changes in plug gap-except to eliminate misfire in boosted applications (where you reduce gap)-gap might help MPG at lower engine speeds and light throttle angles
Single post has beat these fance plugs in every test I've seen. I guess the question is longevity. Imma go with mid range to save few bucks
Heat range is what seems to matter the most... Is there a difference in resistance in some brands? Good video as always!
Yes & no. Since high voltage is an odd beast a multimeter is not necessarily useful - measuring peak current would be the only real world proof. The interesting thing I stumbled upon years ago is that aviation plugs tend to favor being roughly 2/3 the resistance of automotive design. Maybe an engineer or intrepid flyer can explain why.
From what I've read, indexing and plug construction is that last 0.1% you are looking to find. And sometimes that last .1% is worth the effort when you are racing. Certainly not worth all the effort on a 100% road driven sports car.
Have you looked at the difference between copper resistive and copper non-resistor plugs? Maybe in combination with resistor and non-resistor wires? Wondering if the resistor changes the spark enough to see a change.
From the testing i have done, non resistor spark plugs generated a stronger spark. I have a video of testing that on my channel. The problem is the interference from using Nology non resistor spark plugs messed with my ECU.
You would expect more spark energy, but probably not a huge amount. Jumping a 1mm (0.040") gap at 10 bar (150 psi) of pressure takes about 30k volts. A typical resistor plug might have 5kohms of resistance, and if you have a plug wire (like an LS engine) that's probably another 4-5kohm or more. That means that you're generating no more than 3 amps of peak current and that's only during the initial ionization of the plug. Theoretically less resistance could result in a better initial ionization event, but the RFI as Avery says is a big deal on modern electronics.
@@ChurchAutoTest How did you figure out that an ignition coil will output up to 3 amps of current? For the output current to be that high, wouldn't the input current need to be very high too? A typical output voltage of 30kV X 3 amps is 90,000 watts. At 12 volts, 90,000 watts would be 7,500 amps and there's no way a coil could draw so much on the input side.
@@averyalexander2303 You're correct. The 3 amps would be on the input to the coil, not the output.
I like the E3 plugs for normal use ! they do not like high voltage coil packs ! The ceramic insulator will start to leak to the base causing a misfire !
I did pick up et .10 from NGK R vs Autolite racing. I run alcohol as well. Any reason??
Auto lite copper. Good stuff. Most NA motors dyno at at around 12.8 12.7. My best ets on NA is 12.7
3:26 what I was told about cologne long ago: If it smells like cologne leave it alone, but if it smells like fish make it a dish 😁
E 3 plugs are 100,000 mile plugs. my 1989 5.7 liter gets 21 to 22 mpg highway with them and smog checks are almost no smog detected.
Your results are what I expected. However it is interesting that one of your colleagues, Jim McFarland, was involved in the development and testing of E3 plugs. He published a number of scientific papers on the differences in burn initiation and flame propagation compared with a conventional J-plug. There is an interesting video done at Michigan Tech demonstrating the benefits of the design. I suspect that the weaker the ignition system the more likely they would be to show a benefit but, as your test showed, today's high power ignitions will fire anything.
I recall reading about an individual coil retrofit on a 5.7 vortec (sbc) and they had pretty substantial gains in the mid range. That's likely why there was no big gain here, the LS has plenty of spark. My own experince with LS's running fine with rounded copper plugs with >0.080" gap supports that idea.
@hydrocarbon8272 Great info, I'd like to read that if you can perhaps remember the source?
copper is a much better conducter than those exotic metals. so the copper plug will actually make a hotter and bigger spark which means combustion will be just a tad better. but they will not last nearly as long as the exotic metal plugs will. a fuel economy and combustion chamber deposit comparison would have been very interesting. would have also been interesting just to see the plugs fired side by side outside of the engine.
A little dab on anti-seize is enough to paint everything you own a lovely shade of silver
Prefer copper
Just proved how good them chambers are designed and it Ignition system, Try 1960s motors with single points when this was popular.