I play zombies 90% of the time and find frogs to be my worst matchup. They never need to attack your recruiters, they just monarch them away, and they often have battle faders/threatening roar to stop zombies main pushes and then hit back and potentially clear the board. I’m not an amazing player or anything so it’s also very possible that I’m just playing wrong, but I have heard similar opinions from other zombie players like Beastmode. To be fair I haven’t played against many fairies, but I think they do have a strong matchup against zombies as well
I'm a bit late to this conversation, but as someone who plays both of these decks quite a bit, I might be able to give a different perspective. Apologies for the long rant in advance. I personally think this matchup is even, and it's rather complicated to explain why. Even among the highly ranked players in the format, there are contentious opinions. For example, the premier frog player Rogh used to say that Zombies were a very tough matchup, especially after RBET2, but recently he's given his matchup opinions in the edison server frog channel and he seems to think that frogs just don't lose a matchup except for maybe gladiator beasts. Silchas on the other hand is one of the best zombie players along with beastmode and xeris and he seems to think that zombies win the matchup. The thing about the matchup that makes it have such contentious opinions in my opinion is that it is very volatile. So for example, if zombies have an inactive hand of single recruiter and all extenders that require setup, and they go second into a monarch, they're probably going to lose if they can't do anything except get raiza looped. On the other hand, if zombies go first and establish a monster first, then it becomes incredibly dangerous for frogs because they must pitch a card to special swap then sack for monarch. This means it costs them 3 cards for this monarch, and they lose a full extra monarch because that pitch special could have been used to recycle that same monarch. If you don't have a lot of monarchs, then they could just set next turn and you're in the exact same situation. Alternatively, if you just normal swap dump and you don't have defense like gorz/fader/roar, you risk dying next turn to a diva gob push. It becomes even more complicated if the defense isn't gorz/fader and is instead threatening roar because you risk end phase dust/mst or even solemn. This is a really common situation because the zombie player doesn't rly have a reason to not set dust/mst against frogs unless they really need to establish gorz or are monstrously bricked and don't even want to threaten bth/tt for monarch target backrow. So there's situations that you can describe for both sides that make it incredibly complicated to play, and winning the die roll is extremely important for these two decks since they both require setup. Since the matchup tends to snowball based on tempo because the side that sets up first tends to crush the other one, it's very easy for both the zombie and the frog player to be under immense pressure in the early game, and that means that it feels very difficult to play against for both sides. If you don't have tuner access as the zombie player, then you feel like the monarchs will just run you over, and if you don't have defense as the frog player, it's easy to feel like you're going to get OTK'd when you pass turn. Post board is a little awkward as well because zombies expand their win condition to not just be a lethal push, but also to establish checkmate situations like a protected skill drain (stardust) or stopping both treeborns (banishing with bol, crow, soul release or negating with ha des) or going for a lethal push, and it's very difficult for the frog player to defend against all those options. They can't leave the treeborns in gy, or they can be hit by bol/soul release/crow, but if they ever summon the tree to block dmg in the grind game, they risk getting caius'd or ha des'd. Skill drain will also stop every important play forcing the frog player to draw unsearchable outs. However, if the zombie player ever goes for the lethal push and the frog player has gorz, fader or sometimes even trag, then they committed all their resources, failed to secure the lethal line and the frog player often does not struggle to break the board. 1 enemy controller/soul exchange + monarch and that's 2/3 threats gone which is often the game. So my personal opinion is that it is winning for frogs if they have gorz/fader, and probably favored for the player who went first otherwise. Game 2-3 I think it's likely zombie favored without gorz/fader, still frog favored with gorz/fader. Lastly, I haven't spoken to beastmode myself about the matchup, but I have spoken to my friends on his team, and I think beastmode is in a strange position where he has the perfect combination of traits to lose to frogs as zombies. He plays the game with a very +/- mentality, and that will not work against frogs because you will never outgrind frogs unless you have eliminated both treeborns somehow. In my opinion, you need to think more tempo based and set yourself up for lethal pushes. He also plays his deck with less extenders (no mali, no fufu) and more cards that help in aggro matchups like necro gardna or il blud. These cards are trash against frogs. He also doesn't board for frogs at all. In his deck profile, he talked about siding out zombie extenders for beatdown options like sirocco or smashing ground to make boarded crows dead, but if you do that, then you functionally forfeit against frogs because normal summon sirocco, smash monarch is not a good play against this deck. Obviously, he is still one of the best players in edison format, and I have nothing but the highest respect for him, but I really think he sets himself up for failure against frogs and it isn't necessarily indicative of the matchup.
I also think everybody has the qd bw match up wrong the one that run decree auto loses to it but the one that run battle trap can deal with there pressure actually pretty well
As a Fairy player, the frog matchup feels borderline unwinnable game one. If you get into post board and don't see your sides, you scoop. It's the worst matchup in the meta and it's not close. The Zombie matchup is a bit more difficult to analyze, simply due to the amount of engines that the Zombie package can be played with.
Ryko, caius, etc… he’s only really amazing against frogs. Of course you might board him again any deck but many of them have too many outs to make it be worth it.
I'm new to Edison (but been following Yugioh for years) and one of the coolest things IMO is that the metagame seems very balanced overall
I play zombies 90% of the time and find frogs to be my worst matchup. They never need to attack your recruiters, they just monarch them away, and they often have battle faders/threatening roar to stop zombies main pushes and then hit back and potentially clear the board. I’m not an amazing player or anything so it’s also very possible that I’m just playing wrong, but I have heard similar opinions from other zombie players like Beastmode.
To be fair I haven’t played against many fairies, but I think they do have a strong matchup against zombies as well
I have an insane winrate with zombies against fairies but frogs are one of my rare negative matchups, definitely a crazy difficult matchup.
I recommend mask of restrict.
I'm a bit late to this conversation, but as someone who plays both of these decks quite a bit, I might be able to give a different perspective. Apologies for the long rant in advance.
I personally think this matchup is even, and it's rather complicated to explain why. Even among the highly ranked players in the format, there are contentious opinions. For example, the premier frog player Rogh used to say that Zombies were a very tough matchup, especially after RBET2, but recently he's given his matchup opinions in the edison server frog channel and he seems to think that frogs just don't lose a matchup except for maybe gladiator beasts.
Silchas on the other hand is one of the best zombie players along with beastmode and xeris and he seems to think that zombies win the matchup.
The thing about the matchup that makes it have such contentious opinions in my opinion is that it is very volatile. So for example, if zombies have an inactive hand of single recruiter and all extenders that require setup, and they go second into a monarch, they're probably going to lose if they can't do anything except get raiza looped.
On the other hand, if zombies go first and establish a monster first, then it becomes incredibly dangerous for frogs because they must pitch a card to special swap then sack for monarch. This means it costs them 3 cards for this monarch, and they lose a full extra monarch because that pitch special could have been used to recycle that same monarch. If you don't have a lot of monarchs, then they could just set next turn and you're in the exact same situation. Alternatively, if you just normal swap dump and you don't have defense like gorz/fader/roar, you risk dying next turn to a diva gob push. It becomes even more complicated if the defense isn't gorz/fader and is instead threatening roar because you risk end phase dust/mst or even solemn. This is a really common situation because the zombie player doesn't rly have a reason to not set dust/mst against frogs unless they really need to establish gorz or are monstrously bricked and don't even want to threaten bth/tt for monarch target backrow.
So there's situations that you can describe for both sides that make it incredibly complicated to play, and winning the die roll is extremely important for these two decks since they both require setup.
Since the matchup tends to snowball based on tempo because the side that sets up first tends to crush the other one, it's very easy for both the zombie and the frog player to be under immense pressure in the early game, and that means that it feels very difficult to play against for both sides. If you don't have tuner access as the zombie player, then you feel like the monarchs will just run you over, and if you don't have defense as the frog player, it's easy to feel like you're going to get OTK'd when you pass turn.
Post board is a little awkward as well because zombies expand their win condition to not just be a lethal push, but also to establish checkmate situations like a protected skill drain (stardust) or stopping both treeborns (banishing with bol, crow, soul release or negating with ha des) or going for a lethal push, and it's very difficult for the frog player to defend against all those options. They can't leave the treeborns in gy, or they can be hit by bol/soul release/crow, but if they ever summon the tree to block dmg in the grind game, they risk getting caius'd or ha des'd. Skill drain will also stop every important play forcing the frog player to draw unsearchable outs.
However, if the zombie player ever goes for the lethal push and the frog player has gorz, fader or sometimes even trag, then they committed all their resources, failed to secure the lethal line and the frog player often does not struggle to break the board. 1 enemy controller/soul exchange + monarch and that's 2/3 threats gone which is often the game.
So my personal opinion is that it is winning for frogs if they have gorz/fader, and probably favored for the player who went first otherwise. Game 2-3 I think it's likely zombie favored without gorz/fader, still frog favored with gorz/fader.
Lastly, I haven't spoken to beastmode myself about the matchup, but I have spoken to my friends on his team, and I think beastmode is in a strange position where he has the perfect combination of traits to lose to frogs as zombies. He plays the game with a very +/- mentality, and that will not work against frogs because you will never outgrind frogs unless you have eliminated both treeborns somehow. In my opinion, you need to think more tempo based and set yourself up for lethal pushes. He also plays his deck with less extenders (no mali, no fufu) and more cards that help in aggro matchups like necro gardna or il blud. These cards are trash against frogs. He also doesn't board for frogs at all. In his deck profile, he talked about siding out zombie extenders for beatdown options like sirocco or smashing ground to make boarded crows dead, but if you do that, then you functionally forfeit against frogs because normal summon sirocco, smash monarch is not a good play against this deck. Obviously, he is still one of the best players in edison format, and I have nothing but the highest respect for him, but I really think he sets himself up for failure against frogs and it isn't necessarily indicative of the matchup.
@@SunnyYGO I am so glad i found this comment u big brain
Should do more of these, very helpful for understanding the format more.
I’ve been beating the whole meta with Flamvell.
Same just top 4ed an in person tourney with it last weekend. Went 6-1
@@elijahbarfoth1832 Congrats been testing it for a bit, got a list?
What other engine do you play?
Hell yeah, same bro. They are so good.
@@Jay-nn2ts ruclips.net/video/G-RVtrsrFdc/видео.html
You and AllencPennington from goat format have the same voice 😂😂😂😂
I also think everybody has the qd bw match up wrong the one that run decree auto loses to it but the one that run battle trap can deal with there pressure actually pretty well
Put Gernia in my Zombie deck
As a Fairy player, the frog matchup feels borderline unwinnable game one. If you get into post board and don't see your sides, you scoop. It's the worst matchup in the meta and it's not close.
The Zombie matchup is a bit more difficult to analyze, simply due to the amount of engines that the Zombie package can be played with.
QuickDraw dies to vanaties feind
If you summon it while drill is banished
Depends on the build but yeah that’s a dope play be them 😂
Yo, Alex. Activate your ryko.
Ryko, caius, etc… he’s only really amazing against frogs. Of course you might board him again any deck but many of them have too many outs to make it be worth it.
fact: all decks are weak to kfc 😤