I like the idea of keeping everything "off the shelf" as much as possible. 12.5:1 comp with itb's and kelford cam's plus adjustable cam gears. Maybe a dry sump to?
Dry sump for sure, the next update will actually discuss this. We're going to improve on the setup that was already there to hopefully let us mount the next engine lower - Taz #samepage
Individual Cylinder tuning was and still is done on every single car at my old workplace. From carby to EFI even on everyday stock standard nothing street cars. This is done by reading the each spark plug multiple times throughout the tuning process. The reading of the plug is done by looking for a nice thin grey lead pencil like fuel ring at the base of the porcelain insulator deep down inside the plug to confirm good fuel mixture and then looking for "peppering" on the insulator tip for any signs of detonation (carbon specs) using an eye magnifier with a light. This combined with ditching the basic 02 sensor tuning and using a high speed gas analyzer while paying specific attention to C0, C02, Lambda, HC and N0x using steady state tuning has resulted us achieving a highly balanced engine (equal cyl pressure per cyl) resulting in great engine torque/power, fuel economy and safe tunes on the road and in circuit racing. Obviously this cant be done live with the engine running so some margin is always left on the table but with no drop off in torque and no knock being recorded in the data logging on long steady state runs its a proven method. I would love to get my hands on a set of transducer spark plugs and look at live data right inside the combustion chamber and more accurately lean on cars harder while keeping that safety margin.
I need to congratulate you guys, yet again, for running one of the best and useful information rich channels on YT. The tuning sensor part of this vid was well delivered and hopefully will have served to debunk of misinformation about the "best" way to tune a multi-cylinder hydrocarbon burning engine.
I think I saw a video on Richard Holdener’s channel a while back about individual cylinder tuning, it didn’t make a lot of additional power on the dyno (not the point) but the engine was going to be a whole lot more healthy.
What about the 5.7l Toyota Intech out of the Lexus GX570? Ported heads, 14:1 compression ( better thermal efficiency, throttle response ), enough cam with smooth acting lobes for reliability ( hp peak at 7500-8000 with good overrun to 9000 rpms ), tuned runner intake instead of itb's for cost and simplicity. Iron block is more stable in the long run, can offset weight elsewhere. The idea is to take the Ferrari 458 concept and apply it to the Toyota engine ( lots of compression, revs, etc. with excellent engine management and knock control )
Judd V8 sound is just insane. Amazing engines you see a lot in Swiss Hillclimb video's (RUclips it if you dont know!). Maby nitrous oxide for this 3UZ? 150-200 shot on the straights, pretty light weight, and cheap!!
Andre actually did a [TECH TOUR] on Georg Plasa's (RIP) old Judd powered BMW at Goodwood last year. Nitrous actually takes similar considerations to a forced induction setup, but unfortunately I don't think MSNZ allow the use of it either way - Taz. ruclips.net/video/StzB4Cs5HzU/видео.html
Offset grinding from 52mm to 45mm big-end make a diffrence in diameter of 7mm and yes the center is moved only 3.5mm so att tdc it will be 3.5mm higher... BUT it Will also be 3.5mm lower att bdc so the stroke is in fakt incressed by 7mm and not 3.5mm as you mentioned in the video
Yes there is a slight error there, we tried to catch it in the video description and I'll try to make sure I feed Andre more coffee in the future before these haha. Appreciate your comment about it too :) - Taz.
I wonder if you could fit a coyote ford engine in that chassis. It would drastically help you to meet your power level or 600. Fairly light weight although they are super wide. I love the sound that 1uz made though. Good luck.
We're building a 3uzfe with dry sump in to our MX5 race car, was there a follow-up video to this? All the same OEM reasoning you used we used...though I doubt we'll be revving as high as you :)
@@sanjosonny2503 Sadly our project is on hold while our engineer is flat out busy with real work :) Engine is mounted in car, gearbox and diff etc all mounted. Hoping to see progress start again in the next few months.
@@marksvideochannel3592 ok, cool. Well keep me posted if you can trying to build mine. Hoping to find a good route to 500hp. Any suggestions? Do you guys have a channel I can subscribe?
@@sanjosonny2503 No channel other than a bit of racing with the current turbo car. Once its built there will be more up :) Good luck with your build, you planning on turbo to hit that target?
Some more cool info' there. Minor error there regarding the offset ground big ends - you're correct in that the increase in the throw is half the change in diameter, 3.5mm, but the increase in stroke is actually 7mm, not 3.5mm - the change is both up and down from the crank centre line. Is there a difference in the crankshaft material between the car and truck versions as it is common for cars to be cast/nodular but truck forged - however, with Toyota they may both be forged? As you mentioned using Honda big end bearings, I assume you're looking at having some custom 'rods made up? If so, a compromise may be to use the early Chev' 2" (50.8mm) big ends with a small offset grind of the truck crank? I don't know how the widths, compare but there is a good selection of shell materials available. With the pistons (and rods for that metter) you're probably going to need to special order them - that may be a good opportunity to look at the ring pack and how you can move the gudgeon pin up for a better rod-stroke ratio? Oh, again, if they're custom, might be worth looking at thinner rings as there seems to be a small reduction in friction with negligible wear penalty, maybe even a single compression ring? The cylinder airflow variations are something many people overlook and, judging from some plenum designs, are ignorant of - however, even then, the affect of the exhaust on the airflow characteristics in the cylinders also shouldn't be overlooked, and this also applies to forced induction of either type. There is a good video on YT, where a tuner is setting up a dual quad tunnel ram, and there quite a big difference in the jetting around the carb's because of the airflow variations in the plenum - same thing may occur in EFI plenums. FOUND IT - different application, same principle! - ruclips.net/video/EP1Rh829rVk/видео.html The Mountune engine is actually directly related to one of today's topics - note the plenum design that is intended to give a more even distribution than an end opening design.
You're absolutely right - Minor brain fade on my part. Will teach me for running numbers on no sleep. Regardless what we do, the rods will be aftermarket and if we do offset grind the crank then they will by necessity be custom.
Cool. More windows than the Andersen factory and crispy asteroid nuggets . Hopefully it wasn’t the VVTi being used still, they don’t have enough oil pressure to maintain that rpm from what I have seen .
@Tomyp89, the stock 1UZ rods are a pretty good thing. The 3UZ rods however are tiny and a well documented weak point. None of this is relevant though since the rods in our existing engine are an aftermarket H-beam and we will be fitting aftermarket rods to our new engine too.
I think you are in a rock and hard place. Since you are already built for the UZ I would keep the UZ. I would consider going down the procharger route for more power. Turbo would be better but that is a lot of packaging to deal with.
We have considered the supercharger route but it would require complete re-engineering of the car from a cooling perspective. It also adds a considerable amount of additional weight to the front axle line.
My 3uz just did this, I believe related to the valve guide failing. Was the heads built using the cast steel valve guides? and you could confirm OE valves based on diameter since supertech is 1.5mm over. Thanks in advance if you accommodate my curiosity and if you remember such details lol.
@J.C. Kohle I'm meaning diamond like carbon coating on the followers and camshafts.....in the uk that's around 200£ give or take. Could also do piston skirts and rings to theres also valve stem coatings. All race teams do it now.
Just a thing from my end here guys. Change those 3UZ rods to the 1UZ rods. The 3UZ is much thinner and not as wide and more prone to destruction under higher loads. That's why 1UZ's are still worth $1000+ most times and a 3UZ can be had for around $500 or less. 🤷
@@hpa101 Fair enough Andre. Great breakdown on why you avoided the 2UZ crank on the 3UZ block aswell, that was my piece of information learned for today. 🤘
Here’s my issue with lambda sensors. They are only useful for tuning unleaded fuels. They don’t work with all fuels. I’ve noticed that even pyrometers get ruined.
It's very rare these days that we deal with leaded fuels. Back in the earlier days of my career we used a lot of VP Racing C16 and Q16 and sensor life was limited with the LSU sensors. The NTK sensors were surprisingly robust though and we were seeing at least 12 months out of a sensor. Given the high volume of tuning, this isn't too bad.
Only HPA could make something akin to a nuclear wasteland entertaining! Sorry to see it guys, BUT, as they say "One engines explodes, another find its way into its place." or something like that ;-) Also, the 3UZ isn't a bad choice and I'm looking forward to see what you can do with it, given your constraints.
Sorry im French and I don't understand all the video unfortunately.. could you tell me which engine is more reliable please? the 4.3 3UZ FE or the 4.6 1UR FE? thanks for your answer! ;)
Is there enough room for a procharger under the hood? Then you could just do bearings, rods, pistons, valve springs. I'm guessing a there's no room for a turbo.
High Performance Academy what does your data logger say? Did you have an injector fail or get blocked? Seems more tune to me. I recently had a blocked injector (mechanical injection) and EGT went up 100 degrees instantly and torched the head.
Hmm, would be interested to hear the logic/through process on why you'd say it was the tune given the very limited amount of information. I haven't looked at the log yet, not sure where Andre is at with it. A data logging course is a big goal for the quarter here so he's busy writing that, but who knows maybe some data from this will end up in there once filming starts - Taz.
Sort of, if you get one new I believe you don't actually own it, you pay a fee and a large bond that is returned when you return the engine. That said, we were looking at one that someone had opened which voided the ability to return it to collect the bond back, however, they have decided to hold onto it. They decided that not before we started to get excited though haha Note, it was much, much, much less than 100k - Taz.
There's a bit more too it and for the gains the reengineering that would have to go into the car, particularly the cooling, would make it quite a bit more effort that it would be worth unless we decided to shoot for a few hundred HP more instead of just 100HP more. Then, if we did want to go for say 700-800HP, our tyres size and aero, or lack of, would be issue$, so a bit of a spanner in the works. This and a few other reasons are why we're keen to get a bit more out of a NA 3UZ-ish based setup but keep the same size tyres and just do some mild aero work, and then hopefully have a season where the team can just work on building their skills and finishing more often in a car that still has a bit of balance to it :) - Taz.
I don't think Kelford do cams for these unfortunately. We are putting a Kelford in the Holden here though, so can and will deliver on that idle video haha - Taz.
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What engine would you guys like to see dropped into the 86? - Taz.
N/A all billet 2 rotor.
It would be expensive but think about a 1LR-GUE V10 from the LFA. The sounds of it would be worth it in itself.
The v8 they make out of the busa engine lol
Vk56 the thing is severely underrated. Vsport squeezed out 800 hp out of it NA and stock displacement.
1GZ-FE or the Hartley V12. 😈
I like the idea of keeping everything "off the shelf" as much as possible. 12.5:1 comp with itb's and kelford cam's plus adjustable cam gears. Maybe a dry sump to?
Dry sump for sure, the next update will actually discuss this. We're going to improve on the setup that was already there to hopefully let us mount the next engine lower - Taz #samepage
Individual Cylinder tuning was and still is done on every single car at my old workplace. From carby to EFI even on everyday stock standard nothing street cars. This is done by reading the each spark plug multiple times throughout the tuning process.
The reading of the plug is done by looking for a nice thin grey lead pencil like fuel ring at the base of the porcelain insulator deep down inside the plug to confirm good fuel mixture and then looking for "peppering" on the insulator tip for any signs of detonation (carbon specs) using an eye magnifier with a light.
This combined with ditching the basic 02 sensor tuning and using a high speed gas analyzer while paying specific attention to C0, C02, Lambda, HC and N0x using steady state tuning has resulted us achieving a highly balanced engine (equal cyl pressure per cyl) resulting in great engine torque/power, fuel economy and safe tunes on the road and in circuit racing. Obviously this cant be done live with the engine running so some margin is always left on the table but with no drop off in torque and no knock being recorded in the data logging on long steady state runs its a proven method.
I would love to get my hands on a set of transducer spark plugs and look at live data right inside the combustion chamber and more accurately lean on cars harder while keeping that safety margin.
I need to congratulate you guys, yet again, for running one of the best and useful information rich channels on YT.
The tuning sensor part of this vid was well delivered and hopefully will have served to debunk of misinformation about the "best" way to tune a multi-cylinder hydrocarbon burning engine.
I think I saw a video on Richard Holdener’s channel a while back about individual cylinder tuning, it didn’t make a lot of additional power on the dyno (not the point) but the engine was going to be a whole lot more healthy.
The 5 liter 2UR-GSE is a bad azz engine !!!
We've already considered that engine but it requires so much of the setup to be re-engineered to make it work. It would be a great choice though.
Junkyard engines can somewhat limit you in maximum performance but they open all sorts of doors in terms of reliability and parts availability.
What about the 5.7l Toyota Intech out of the Lexus GX570? Ported heads, 14:1 compression ( better thermal efficiency, throttle response ), enough cam with smooth acting lobes for reliability ( hp peak at 7500-8000 with good overrun to 9000 rpms ), tuned runner intake instead of itb's for cost and simplicity. Iron block is more stable in the long run, can offset weight elsewhere. The idea is to take the Ferrari 458 concept and apply it to the Toyota engine ( lots of compression, revs, etc. with excellent engine management and knock control )
Judd V8 sound is just insane. Amazing engines you see a lot in Swiss Hillclimb video's (RUclips it if you dont know!). Maby nitrous oxide for this 3UZ? 150-200 shot on the straights, pretty light weight, and cheap!!
Andre actually did a [TECH TOUR] on Georg Plasa's (RIP) old Judd powered BMW at Goodwood last year.
Nitrous actually takes similar considerations to a forced induction setup, but unfortunately I don't think MSNZ allow the use of it either way - Taz.
ruclips.net/video/StzB4Cs5HzU/видео.html
Stuffing a gen 2 1uz/w58 combo in my 83' supra at the moment. Should make for a fun little car when finished.
Damn, missed the live webinar. Was interested in this
Offset grinding from 52mm to 45mm big-end make a diffrence in diameter of 7mm and yes the center is moved only 3.5mm so att tdc it will be 3.5mm higher... BUT it Will also be 3.5mm lower att bdc so the stroke is in fakt incressed by 7mm and not 3.5mm as you mentioned in the video
Yes there is a slight error there, we tried to catch it in the video description and I'll try to make sure I feed Andre more coffee in the future before these haha. Appreciate your comment about it too :) - Taz.
I'll be back to see this engine build. I have a 2001 is300 I was thinking of do this engine for it.
I wonder if you could fit a coyote ford engine in that chassis. It would drastically help you to meet your power level or 600. Fairly light weight although they are super wide. I love the sound that 1uz made though. Good luck.
if you offset grind 7mm smaller you will get 7mm of stroke, 3.5 at the top 3.5 at the bottom
Yea sorry, brain fade there!
We're building a 3uzfe with dry sump in to our MX5 race car, was there a follow-up video to this?
All the same OEM reasoning you used we used...though I doubt we'll be revving as high as you :)
Hows this going with the 3uzfe?
@@sanjosonny2503 Sadly our project is on hold while our engineer is flat out busy with real work :)
Engine is mounted in car, gearbox and diff etc all mounted.
Hoping to see progress start again in the next few months.
@@marksvideochannel3592 ok, cool. Well keep me posted if you can trying to build mine. Hoping to find a good route to 500hp. Any suggestions? Do you guys have a channel I can subscribe?
@@sanjosonny2503 No channel other than a bit of racing with the current turbo car. Once its built there will be more up :) Good luck with your build, you planning on turbo to hit that target?
@@marksvideochannel3592 Thanks and yes if that is the best route to 500. I'll figure it out but yes if you can keep me posted.
Some more cool info' there.
Minor error there regarding the offset ground big ends - you're correct in that the increase in the throw is half the change in diameter, 3.5mm, but the increase in stroke is actually 7mm, not 3.5mm - the change is both up and down from the crank centre line.
Is there a difference in the crankshaft material between the car and truck versions as it is common for cars to be cast/nodular but truck forged - however, with Toyota they may both be forged?
As you mentioned using Honda big end bearings, I assume you're looking at having some custom 'rods made up? If so, a compromise may be to use the early Chev' 2" (50.8mm) big ends with a small offset grind of the truck crank? I don't know how the widths, compare but there is a good selection of shell materials available.
With the pistons (and rods for that metter) you're probably going to need to special order them - that may be a good opportunity to look at the ring pack and how you can move the gudgeon pin up for a better rod-stroke ratio? Oh, again, if they're custom, might be worth looking at thinner rings as there seems to be a small reduction in friction with negligible wear penalty, maybe even a single compression ring?
The cylinder airflow variations are something many people overlook and, judging from some plenum designs, are ignorant of - however, even then, the affect of the exhaust on the airflow characteristics in the cylinders also shouldn't be overlooked, and this also applies to forced induction of either type.
There is a good video on YT, where a tuner is setting up a dual quad tunnel ram, and there quite a big difference in the jetting around the carb's because of the airflow variations in the plenum - same thing may occur in EFI plenums.
FOUND IT - different application, same principle! - ruclips.net/video/EP1Rh829rVk/видео.html
The Mountune engine is actually directly related to one of today's topics - note the plenum design that is intended to give a more even distribution than an end opening design.
You're absolutely right - Minor brain fade on my part. Will teach me for running numbers on no sleep. Regardless what we do, the rods will be aftermarket and if we do offset grind the crank then they will by necessity be custom.
Cool. More windows than the Andersen factory and crispy asteroid nuggets . Hopefully it wasn’t the VVTi being used still, they don’t have enough oil pressure to maintain that rpm from what I have seen .
More uz content please
Say what you want, those 1uz have some stout conrods.
shame the 2 & 3 dont..well from my inderstanding
@@markhalden3922 only first gen non vvti 1uz have strong OEM rods, all VVTI UZ engines use a "skinny" rod for fuel efficiency
Maybe they do - but those are aftermarket...
@Tomyp89, the stock 1UZ rods are a pretty good thing. The 3UZ rods however are tiny and a well documented weak point. None of this is relevant though since the rods in our existing engine are an aftermarket H-beam and we will be fitting aftermarket rods to our new engine too.
I think the issue you will be having is trying to get the weight of that rotating assembly as log by as possible while keeping strength.
I think you are in a rock and hard place. Since you are already built for the UZ I would keep the UZ. I would consider going down the procharger route for more power. Turbo would be better but that is a lot of packaging to deal with.
We have considered the supercharger route but it would require complete re-engineering of the car from a cooling perspective. It also adds a considerable amount of additional weight to the front axle line.
Good Stuff . .
Any thoughts on using a Nissan VK56DE v8?
Ohhh that's quite good question. I'm also curious
Good engine design except Nissan cheapened out a lot more on parts quality compared to the UZ/UR.
Put in a Beams engine BUT make the crankshaft a CROSSPLANE. That would sound SWEET!
My 3uz just did this, I believe related to the valve guide failing. Was the heads built using the cast steel valve guides? and you could confirm OE valves based on diameter since supertech is 1.5mm over.
Thanks in advance if you accommodate my curiosity and if you remember such details lol.
This one came with the car sorry, we didn't build it so I don't have many details on hand outside of the video content involving it - Taz.
@@hpa101 the diameter of valves would be the indicator, it matters less now though since I'm sure it's bin'd.
Also with all new valves and cams etc I would get everything DLC coated. Its surprisingly not that expensive.
@J.C. Kohle I'm meaning diamond like carbon coating on the followers and camshafts.....in the uk that's around 200£ give or take. Could also do piston skirts and rings to theres also valve stem coatings. All race teams do it now.
Just a thing from my end here guys. Change those 3UZ rods to the 1UZ rods. The 3UZ is much thinner and not as wide and more prone to destruction under higher loads. That's why 1UZ's are still worth $1000+ most times and a 3UZ can be had for around $500 or less. 🤷
Yea I'm aware of the rod size in the 3UZ. We were never intending to run stock rods though so it's really not a huge concern for us.
@@hpa101 Fair enough Andre. Great breakdown on why you avoided the 2UZ crank on the 3UZ block aswell, that was my piece of information learned for today. 🤘
Here’s my issue with lambda sensors. They are only useful for tuning unleaded fuels. They don’t work with all fuels. I’ve noticed that even pyrometers get ruined.
It's very rare these days that we deal with leaded fuels. Back in the earlier days of my career we used a lot of VP Racing C16 and Q16 and sensor life was limited with the LSU sensors. The NTK sensors were surprisingly robust though and we were seeing at least 12 months out of a sensor. Given the high volume of tuning, this isn't too bad.
wish you guys could run dry sump. rev to that 9k with ease and could be used in some serious dogfight situations
Well the old engine was dry sumped and revs to 8700 so not far off. The new one will rev to 9k.
sorry about the engine, that sucks
id go from 52mm to 48mm, a gain of 4mm in sttroke without reducing main to big end overlap to drastically
Only HPA could make something akin to a nuclear wasteland entertaining!
Sorry to see it guys, BUT, as they say "One engines explodes, another find its way into its place." or something like that ;-)
Also, the 3UZ isn't a bad choice and I'm looking forward to see what you can do with it, given your constraints.
Sorry im French and I don't understand all the video unfortunately.. could you tell me which engine is more reliable please? the 4.3 3UZ FE or the 4.6 1UR FE? thanks for your answer! ;)
Is there enough room for a procharger under the hood? Then you could just do bearings, rods, pistons, valve springs. I'm guessing a there's no room for a turbo.
The extra cooling setup required for a supercharger or turbocharger is actually trickier than physically squeezing things in to be honest - Taz.
How did you guys handle the dual distributor of the 1UZ? That was always a fumbling point for me on my 1UZ
The later model 1UZFE VVTi engine is COP.
I run Supertech valves and springs/retainers and rev to 11,000rpm and never had a failure. Something very odd here.
We've used them in other builds too. There is still some digging to do to figure out the exact cause - Taz.
High Performance Academy what does your data logger say? Did you have an injector fail or get blocked? Seems more tune to me. I recently had a blocked injector (mechanical injection) and EGT went up 100 degrees instantly and torched the head.
Hmm, would be interested to hear the logic/through process on why you'd say it was the tune given the very limited amount of information.
I haven't looked at the log yet, not sure where Andre is at with it. A data logging course is a big goal for the quarter here so he's busy writing that, but who knows maybe some data from this will end up in there once filming starts - Taz.
Rotrex it!
What intake manifold are you using on the 1UZ?
It's off an LS1 I believe. Confuses a few people in the paddock - Taz.
Hey Andre. Would you be interested in buying my 1URFSE? 4.6L all alloy
Hey there Gary, thanks for the offer but we're sorted now and have things under way - Taz.
Aren’t judds like 100 grand?
Sort of, if you get one new I believe you don't actually own it, you pay a fee and a large bond that is returned when you return the engine.
That said, we were looking at one that someone had opened which voided the ability to return it to collect the bond back, however, they have decided to hold onto it. They decided that not before we started to get excited though haha Note, it was much, much, much less than 100k - Taz.
Forced induction man, if you arent limited then slap a turbo on the v8
There's a bit more too it and for the gains the reengineering that would have to go into the car, particularly the cooling, would make it quite a bit more effort that it would be worth unless we decided to shoot for a few hundred HP more instead of just 100HP more.
Then, if we did want to go for say 700-800HP, our tyres size and aero, or lack of, would be issue$, so a bit of a spanner in the works.
This and a few other reasons are why we're keen to get a bit more out of a NA 3UZ-ish based setup but keep the same size tyres and just do some mild aero work, and then hopefully have a season where the team can just work on building their skills and finishing more often in a car that still has a bit of balance to it :) - Taz.
Throw some kelfords in there. I need to see good idle video
I don't think Kelford do cams for these unfortunately. We are putting a Kelford in the Holden here though, so can and will deliver on that idle video haha - Taz.
@@hpa101 they do make vvti cams