Watching this was like sitting in lecture where I was totally engaged with the topics going on! Agree with lots of what was talked about here - especially ont how Darktide should emphasize more active decision making rather than "here - take these bunch of passives and you are stronger now" or mindlessly steamrolling enemies when they are suppose to be actual threats. HOpe to see some of the ideas here implemented (ammo dropping from ranged enemies please!)
15:40 also dogs have started doing a thing where they will face a random direction (not at you) but pounce directly at you even tho they are facing a wall
Suggestion if this does happen again - make the discussion more structured. Have topics separated clearly, and have dedicated back and forth. Crab has a tendency to get distracted by whatever telos brings up and never finishes his thought on the previous topic. I know hes not super big on doing this type of stuff but there are genuinely a lot of interesting behind the scene and design philosophy.
A great talk! I know I have wanted FOR YEARS to have enemies be able to be split down the middle when you do a big overhead. Doesn't even need to have dismemberment involved, like not necessarily all the way. But c'mon, heads should at least cleave apart!
My preferred change for all class trees is to remove auras and the tiny nodes and have them compensate by adding unique curio modifiers (possibly replacing the large health/wound/toughness slot) and buffing curio numbers a tiny bit. I also want all of vet's nade-based talents to be removed and then replace the focus keystone with a complete grenadier keystone. It could have as many point options as combat specialist, or just function as empowered psionics with a tougher proc condition. A free horde/crusher patrol eliminator every couple minutes isn't healthy. I also like the idea of tougher elites, and giving the dreg and scab bruisers more unique presence to make hordes less braindead would be great.
i like focussed fire, it really makes you feel like a defacto run leader with how you could either designate a squishy target for easy/fast buffs or designate a tanky enemy target to get value out of the dmg buff + the longer u take to kill one yellowed target, the more time you give focussed fire to refresh
Truly an awesome video! Loved listening to this high tier balancing and brainstorming convo. A little nitpick - don't interrupt Crab as much. I love listening to you guys EQUALLY.
I love hearing the discussion about the sargeant and the 4 man squad idea, would love to see FartShart implement something like that. Especially when that's something HL2 did nearly 2 decades ago haha.
A fun listen. Bunch of stuff I agree with. Some stuff I really, really don't agree with. I particularly enjoyed Crab's opinions on enemy design and his insight in to the internal workings at Fatshark.
You guys mentioned my biggest pet peeve! Vermintide 2 warning swoosh sound for when you’re getting attacked was so consistent and you could always time the block perfectly with the audio queue but darktide groaners attacking audio queue is so unreliable and I’ll block or dodge and the attack just comes way too late and I’ll take the hit and it just so irritating and deflating
(it wasn't consistent in V2 either) but to be fair in DT it breaks so consistently you can spawn a dude in meat grinder and you'll see that every other hit he does will not have a backstab sound, I don't remember if V2 was ever that bad
This is outstanding, i regret not finding this sooner. Are there more conversations like this? Anyone know where TinyAngryCrab's RUclips account he mentions at the end is?
*Beast of Nurgle* I think isn't inherently broken (though I'm open to giving him more interesting attacks). I think they could improve it a ton with balance tweaks: * mouth: weak point at all times (probably with slightly more armor than the back-weakspot) * slime: slightly reduce movement penalty, slightly reduce corruption bleed, slightly increase Slide bonus (and moderately reduce slide corruption damage) * eating: max time capped at 5 seconds (2 if last man standing), but increase damage substantially so this is one of the worst attacks to get hit by * knockback: -75% damage/stagger against blocking players * spit: *maybe* tweak the telegraph to be slightly longer. This runs the risk of severely trivializing the boss. (Granted maybe you could argue that because the other bosses can be trivialized very similarly, maybe this is fine.) *Ragers* were already tweaked after this vid, but I do still like the _spirit of the suggestions made here,_ where they should make interacting with Ragers more dynamic and less reliant on either blocking, dodge+shooting, or stunning them. *Blocks* I do think should be rewarded more. Give some mobs medium-sized attacks where blocking them staggers the enemy, giving you an opportunity to hit back. Tweaking their perfect block system (which I think does exist? It's hard to tell sometimes) to be both clearer and more valuable would be great. *Block efficiency* should increase perfect-block active time, and perhaps some weapons (dueling swords, ogryn shield, etc) should have a blessing that gives you 10 sec of +60% power after a perfect block (it needs to be a long duration, since it'd be boring to perfect-block every 3 seconds). *Hellbore* they just need to make a choice. Either Plasma Gun or Hellbore need to be the best at killing Crushers, and the one that's not best at that should be quite excellent at dealing with hordes (by penetrating through tons of targets). *Recon lasguns* are okay-ish in their current state but always felt designed wrong to me. I wanted a laser SMG, with good mobility, excellent short-range damage, but damage dropoff at longer range. This also means, due to what I described being well-suited to shooting unarmored targets (including hordes) up close, we'd want to make sure it had good ammo capacity so that you're not just tanking your team's ammo supply by playing it that way (currently if you shoot horde with the thing you're basically wasting all the team's ammo). Basically this would be a middle ground between Lasgun and Flamer (and with better mobility than either). I'd look into the penetration values of the shots too (it should be a value of like 3-6ish depending on the ReconLas, so that against hordes it's very often penetrating for multiple hits worth of value; in fact this might be just the primary way they achieve "excellent short-range damage").
When class rework came out I really wanted for the zealot middle tree to be similar to warrior priest. WP can heal teammates depending on how well he plays when his passive procs. The more he kills, and the stronger the enemies were, the more hp the team gets. It encourages the player to be active and "mend through violence". Why devs decided to not implement something similar in darktide is beyond me. It could be capped, it could only count for elite and special kills, it could have a longer cooldown... But nah, a support zealot can only cleanse a bit of corruption and give some shields every now and then.
Remember when you could slide on the beast of nurgles slug trail and go really fast? that was fun, could get you to the boss faster and had risk vs reward with the corruption, the trail shouldnt slow you it should make you faster!
25:50 Still haven't seen a game that has a better gun feel than the BF4, BF1, BF5 games. They really should have consulted DICE yet another swedish game company that does their job better.
Crabs is content, confirmed. I dislike his thoughts on Ragers because being forced to use context based counters against the Ragers would result in actual gameplay with result in there being no meaningful way to counter them other than just shooting them which is exact where they are now, if they further buff them with carapace armor on the body would fully solidify how toxic they make games. but other than that I'd have to agree with almost everything he said, good show.
Interresting discussion. Strongly disagree with your take on implementing dodging patterns on ragers tough. This would make the game unecesserarly complex and only enjoyable for the elite player base (no offense but i think that balancing a game around the top players is generally the worst idea). It raises an interesting problem however. Ennemies that have no correct way to deal with them in melee are frustrating.
Cant watch any more. Complain about the problems enemies pose and suggest options to make them easier to deal with. If an enemy is a pain in the ass its doing its job where other enemies are a higher threat. A lot of suggestions are how to allow more skilled options to deal with enemies. Darktide excels at chaos... regardless of skill, the right enemies in the right situation will be too much to handle. Control of the battle is a skill in itself. Losing is meant to happen.
as a new player, i got level 30 and cleared auric malestrom on my third day and feel i have done everything, the game needs more content first and foremost
46 minutes of an okay discussion about game design with some ranting, some fair suggestions, and some technically impossible ones by people who have never worked in software. Then the quick rant about having to hear "female soldier voices voices" outta nowhere. The sub count of this channel makes sense now I guess.
crabe has experience in coding and has been able to point out specific lines in the lua that needed changing to fix certain things I'd love to know what you consider technically impossible I don't hate them because they're chicks, female voices across the board in darktide have some of the worst and most grating voice acting I have ever heard, I loved Keri and Sienna
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Watching this was like sitting in lecture where I was totally engaged with the topics going on! Agree with lots of what was talked about here - especially ont how Darktide should emphasize more active decision making rather than "here - take these bunch of passives and you are stronger now" or mindlessly steamrolling enemies when they are suppose to be actual threats. HOpe to see some of the ideas here implemented (ammo dropping from ranged enemies please!)
this was great, enjoyed it a lot. Hugely in agreement with almost all of it.
I like crab talks, he has interesting/good takes and he is good at explaining concepts and why they should change
You should do crabtalks more often!
Crabtalk mondays sounds like a perfect way to make mondays good again
15:40 also dogs have started doing a thing where they will face a random direction (not at you) but pounce directly at you even tho they are facing a wall
I could not agree more about the beast of nurgle. It is by far my least favorite monstrosity to fight in its current state.
Suggestion if this does happen again - make the discussion more structured. Have topics separated clearly, and have dedicated back and forth. Crab has a tendency to get distracted by whatever telos brings up and never finishes his thought on the previous topic. I know hes not super big on doing this type of stuff but there are genuinely a lot of interesting behind the scene and design philosophy.
100%. Also tele needs to not be like "oh Jesus blah blah happened in game" as it derails the discussion. So irritating
this is a good idea, crab talks are all spur of the moment things where he'll just show up to talk about whatever for some hours
Loved this video and everything spoken about. More of this please.
A great talk! I know I have wanted FOR YEARS to have enemies be able to be split down the middle when you do a big overhead. Doesn't even need to have dismemberment involved, like not necessarily all the way. But c'mon, heads should at least cleave apart!
We love crab
2:39:16 truly horrifying. The demon appears.
crab
wish i could catch a tiny angry crab while fishing
My preferred change for all class trees is to remove auras and the tiny nodes and have them compensate by adding unique curio modifiers (possibly replacing the large health/wound/toughness slot) and buffing curio numbers a tiny bit.
I also want all of vet's nade-based talents to be removed and then replace the focus keystone with a complete grenadier keystone. It could have as many point options as combat specialist, or just function as empowered psionics with a tougher proc condition. A free horde/crusher patrol eliminator every couple minutes isn't healthy.
I also like the idea of tougher elites, and giving the dreg and scab bruisers more unique presence to make hordes less braindead would be great.
i like focussed fire, it really makes you feel like a defacto run leader with how you could either designate a squishy target for easy/fast buffs or designate a tanky enemy target to get value out of the dmg buff + the longer u take to kill one yellowed target, the more time you give focussed fire to refresh
i swear these guys are priming us to see a massive skill tree overhaul
Also the chat calling the zealot relic, Zealot Phone is fucking hysterical.
Truly an awesome video! Loved listening to this high tier balancing and brainstorming convo. A little nitpick - don't interrupt Crab as much.
I love listening to you guys EQUALLY.
bullet magnetism is the curse bungie puked up upon the world of fps games
I love hearing the discussion about the sargeant and the 4 man squad idea, would love to see FartShart implement something like that. Especially when that's something HL2 did nearly 2 decades ago haha.
A fun listen. Bunch of stuff I agree with. Some stuff I really, really don't agree with. I particularly enjoyed Crab's opinions on enemy design and his insight in to the internal workings at Fatshark.
Sniper should indeed be the NCR ranger from the new vegas opening
2:20:00 ish - "if given the options players will optimize the fun out of any game" - I don't remember, probably a dev
they returned to this idea in a recent stream actually, talking about plasteel farming that time
43:55 kingkhal_drogo expressed exactly what I had been thinking of while listening to this conversation. Great discussion btw. Vacuum Capsule!
You guys mentioned my biggest pet peeve! Vermintide 2 warning swoosh sound for when you’re getting attacked was so consistent and you could always time the block perfectly with the audio queue but darktide groaners attacking audio queue is so unreliable and I’ll block or dodge and the attack just comes way too late and I’ll take the hit and it just so irritating and deflating
(it wasn't consistent in V2 either)
but to be fair in DT it breaks so consistently you can spawn a dude in meat grinder and you'll see that every other hit he does will not have a backstab sound, I don't remember if V2 was ever that bad
This is outstanding, i regret not finding this sooner. Are there more conversations like this? Anyone know where TinyAngryCrab's RUclips account he mentions at the end is?
*Beast of Nurgle* I think isn't inherently broken (though I'm open to giving him more interesting attacks). I think they could improve it a ton with balance tweaks:
* mouth: weak point at all times (probably with slightly more armor than the back-weakspot)
* slime: slightly reduce movement penalty, slightly reduce corruption bleed, slightly increase Slide bonus (and moderately reduce slide corruption damage)
* eating: max time capped at 5 seconds (2 if last man standing), but increase damage substantially so this is one of the worst attacks to get hit by
* knockback: -75% damage/stagger against blocking players
* spit: *maybe* tweak the telegraph to be slightly longer. This runs the risk of severely trivializing the boss. (Granted maybe you could argue that because the other bosses can be trivialized very similarly, maybe this is fine.)
*Ragers* were already tweaked after this vid, but I do still like the _spirit of the suggestions made here,_ where they should make interacting with Ragers more dynamic and less reliant on either blocking, dodge+shooting, or stunning them.
*Blocks* I do think should be rewarded more. Give some mobs medium-sized attacks where blocking them staggers the enemy, giving you an opportunity to hit back. Tweaking their perfect block system (which I think does exist? It's hard to tell sometimes) to be both clearer and more valuable would be great. *Block efficiency* should increase perfect-block active time, and perhaps some weapons (dueling swords, ogryn shield, etc) should have a blessing that gives you 10 sec of +60% power after a perfect block (it needs to be a long duration, since it'd be boring to perfect-block every 3 seconds).
*Hellbore* they just need to make a choice. Either Plasma Gun or Hellbore need to be the best at killing Crushers, and the one that's not best at that should be quite excellent at dealing with hordes (by penetrating through tons of targets).
*Recon lasguns* are okay-ish in their current state but always felt designed wrong to me. I wanted a laser SMG, with good mobility, excellent short-range damage, but damage dropoff at longer range. This also means, due to what I described being well-suited to shooting unarmored targets (including hordes) up close, we'd want to make sure it had good ammo capacity so that you're not just tanking your team's ammo supply by playing it that way (currently if you shoot horde with the thing you're basically wasting all the team's ammo). Basically this would be a middle ground between Lasgun and Flamer (and with better mobility than either). I'd look into the penetration values of the shots too (it should be a value of like 3-6ish depending on the ReconLas, so that against hordes it's very often penetrating for multiple hits worth of value; in fact this might be just the primary way they achieve "excellent short-range damage").
pure and unadulterated, but self aware.. good stuff lads : D also i'm gay
Wowow tinyangrycrab represent
When class rework came out I really wanted for the zealot middle tree to be similar to warrior priest.
WP can heal teammates depending on how well he plays when his passive procs.
The more he kills, and the stronger the enemies were, the more hp the team gets.
It encourages the player to be active and "mend through violence".
Why devs decided to not implement something similar in darktide is beyond me.
It could be capped, it could only count for elite and special kills, it could have a longer cooldown...
But nah, a support zealot can only cleanse a bit of corruption and give some shields every now and then.
the middle tree is a bit of a disaster
1:32:52
talking about smoke grenades n how theyre either shit or op
"i dont think it would be fun to play with or AGAINST"
against? Darktide pvp?
you know how horribly annoying it is to have someone griefing with them ?
now imagine if an enemy could disrupt your vision like that
Excellent talk.
hello mr pots what is the mod that gives you inventory and other shortcuts from the character select screen?
psych ward
thank you very much @@telopots
Remember when you could slide on the beast of nurgles slug trail and go really fast? that was fun, could get you to the boss faster and had risk vs reward with the corruption, the trail shouldnt slow you it should make you faster!
25:50 Still haven't seen a game that has a better gun feel than the BF4, BF1, BF5 games. They really should have consulted DICE yet another swedish game company that does their job better.
What if they removed slide tech and gave us a dedicated roll instead?
Only if it spins your camera 360 degrees really fast with maximum motion blur like a barrel roll
delete this
Crabs is content, confirmed. I dislike his thoughts on Ragers because being forced to use context based counters against the Ragers would result in actual gameplay with result in there being no meaningful way to counter them other than just shooting them which is exact where they are now, if they further buff them with carapace armor on the body would fully solidify how toxic they make games. but other than that I'd have to agree with almost everything he said, good show.
good thing you didnt record the run
FINALLY! THX
KINO
Interresting discussion. Strongly disagree with your take on implementing dodging patterns on ragers tough. This would make the game unecesserarly complex and only enjoyable for the elite player base (no offense but i think that balancing a game around the top players is generally the worst idea). It raises an interesting problem however. Ennemies that have no correct way to deal with them in melee are frustrating.
Cant watch any more. Complain about the problems enemies pose and suggest options to make them easier to deal with. If an enemy is a pain in the ass its doing its job where other enemies are a higher threat. A lot of suggestions are how to allow more skilled options to deal with enemies. Darktide excels at chaos... regardless of skill, the right enemies in the right situation will be too much to handle. Control of the battle is a skill in itself. Losing is meant to happen.
your character names are based
as a new player, i got level 30 and cleared auric malestrom on my third day and feel i have done everything, the game needs more content first and foremost
46 minutes of an okay discussion about game design with some ranting, some fair suggestions, and some technically impossible ones by people who have never worked in software. Then the quick rant about having to hear "female soldier voices voices" outta nowhere. The sub count of this channel makes sense now I guess.
crabe has experience in coding and has been able to point out specific lines in the lua that needed changing to fix certain things
I'd love to know what you consider technically impossible
I don't hate them because they're chicks, female voices across the board in darktide have some of the worst and most grating voice acting I have ever heard, I loved Keri and Sienna
Maan, such a noob, crying about one of the easiest monstrosity out there..