Slain in the Spirit: With Matthew Esquivel (2019)
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- Опубликовано: 1 сен 2019
- Slain in the Spirit: With Matthew Esquivel
This week on The Remnant Radio we will be diving into Extra-Biblical Manifestations with Matthew Esquivel. We will be focusing on the "slain in the Spirit" phenomenon in the pentecostal charismatic movement. Is being slain in the Spirit a biblical practice, is it a new age phenomenon that has crept into the church, or is it something new that God is doing in the church?
Is being "Slain in the Spirit" a real experience? Is it supported by scripture? Is it possible for someone to lay hands on you and you fall backward uncontrollably into possibly a convulsion? What does the Bible have to say about this experience that is so prevalent in the charismatic community? Is being slain in the Spirit in the bible? In this theology podcast, we present a Biblical and robust examination for the slain in the spirit phenomenon. While some say it’s demonic, kundalini, or pure emotion, Remnant Radio gives a Biblical examination of this manifestation.
SCRIPTURES YOU CAN CHECK OUT
2 Chronicles 5:14
2 Chronicles 7:2
1 Kings 8:11
Ezekiel 1:28
Daniel 8:17-18
Daniel 10:9-12
Luke 9:32
John 18:6
Acts 26:13-14
Revelation 1:17
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SHOW RESOURCES
Mike Bickle (CHURCH HISTORY)
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Great show! Love the dialogue :-)
I agree
Someone performed a follow up study of individuals who were "slain in the Spirit" during a service. His findings were that virtually every person went home and absolutely nothing changed in their life whatsoever. It was as if nothing had happened at all. It is impossible to believe a person could be so flooded or supercharged with the Spirit that they couldn't even stand, and yet no tangible affect occurred at all in their life.
Emotionalism. Sadly it is more common to reach for experiences rather than truth of Scriptures.
@@whittakerdanielj That is the danger.
@@hisservants8003 yes it is. It has severe repercussions.
I understand what you’re saying but having said that, there are also those who repent and accept the Gospel but then decide to turn away from it. Does that deligitimise that they received salvation or the Gospel? Of course not! It proves again that humanity has free will and needs to CHOOSE to follow Jesus in relationship. Also Hebrews 6:4 specifically talks about this, that there WILL be those people who encounter God’s power and love and presence but will still turn away from him and have unredeemed lives.
Plenty of people experienced Jesus while He was on Earth and then walked away later. What you've shared does not necessarily mean anything. Plus, I know people transformed after such an experience.
The first time I experienced this we were in a meeting and the Pastor was praying over married couples. When the preacher was praying for us ( he was three feet away from us ) we both feel back and I didn’t feel a thing. And it was so awesome and peaceful basking in HIS Presence. The other time a Pastor called me up to pray for me. As he began to pray for me I fell to the ground. He told me you need to stand, after the third time he had two men hold me up I was limp as a dishrag under the power of GOD. I’ve been on stage behind a pulpit and the Presence of GOD so strong I could hardly stand.
Oh boy..I would have to say I'm an old timer..went to a Pentecostal church as a kid in the 60s. Then became a high schooler and got really involved in the 70s. I've seen it all. I can only speak to my experience. I did it once and it was more a push. Even as a young man I was skeptical. People want to "feel" something rather "experience" something. Leader often (not all) use this laying on of hands to make people fall out as a means to show their power and "annointing" over people. Its usually done in an emotionally charged environment with music playing. But people rarely change after. They are emotionally satisfied but no real spiritual benefit. If I saw people being healed emotionally, mentally and spiritually then I might be more receptive but as its done now, not so much. I would also be more receptive if people were so moved by the spoken Word that something happened, then I would also be more inclined. I am not saying that people cannot be floored by Gods Spirit. What I am saying that what I've seen, for the most part does not seem genuine
Speaking in tongues is a whole another thing.
This became the signature of ministry in Toronto. They realized that when the Word was preached, people did not fall, but when it was not preached, it greatly increased so they greatly limited the preaching of the Word so the "party" could continue and grow. This alone is enough to discern this so called sign of the power and presence of the Holy Spirit. Satan loves it when the Word is not preached.
The only genuine time I can say I was slain in the Spirit was when I was a little girl. I don't remember if the pastor was praying for me or not (many of us were up by the alter), I just remember not being able to get up and I couldn't stop laughing. It was the joy of the Lord, no doubt. I was overcome by his love and his presence. No one else was laughing - just quietly crying. Because I was just a kid I didn't care what people thought. My dad eventually came and got me up. All the the other times throughout my life I felt pushed or expected to fall. It doesn't sit well with me, and I refuse to go up for prayer for that reason. I have sensed, in my home, that I need to get on my face before him but that's it. I do believe you can be slain in the Spirit - and I think it's rare - but it is definitely manipulated and abused.
I so struggle with this. I grew up AOG so I was exposed to it. But when I was in my early 20's a women evangelist came to my church. Whole she was praying for me, she started pushing on my forehead in which I responded by planting one foot in front of the other and telling her no, she continued to push and I continued to tell her no. After I went back to my seat. Someone said that they thought a demon was acting up in me. I said, ah no, this person was trying to push me to the ground and I was resisting her. I believe that if He wants me on the ground it will happen. I have just had that experience plus seeing way to many people have these hyper emotional experiences at church services and then go back to their lives right after as if it was nothing.. well until the next service.... Seems to me none of the examples in the Bible given for the Spirit falling ever left the person the same.
Heather I am so sorry for your experience. I have had similar experiences.
I don't like being "pushed" by Evangelists or Ministers. This happened to me so many times that I no longer go up for "altar services." I go up to the front row of seats, holding on to the back of the seats and I stay there and pray. I don't want to be someone's spiritual guinea pig. God's Spirit can reach us wherever we are.
Yes I totally agree! It was like the Toronto blessing idea! Laughing, jerking, but no real fruit! None of the Apostles went alive doing this. It's totally fleshly and emotional. Not even a gift of the Spirit.
I served for several years in both the Church of God and the Assemblies of God denominations. I can tell you that the Biblical examples you give for falling down in God's Holy presence is absolutely Not what I observed in these two denominations. The nonsense I observed has no basis in scripture what so ever. What I observed was not people bowing down in reverence to God but people yelling, screaming, dancing around and calling attention to themselves. David Wilkerson hit the mail on the head when he said that Pentecostals have to stop these fleshly displays and then saying they are spirit led.
The "freaking-out" stuff can draw attention to yourself and NOT to God.
I think Pentecostal/Charismatic Pastors should give some kind of Preamble about David dancing before the Lord and other Scriptures like that. Also, Daniel fell down when he saw the angel 😇
The Benny Hinn style of "Slain in the Spirit" should by put in a pile with snake handlers.
I believe it can be real (as what happened to Daniel when he saw the angel) or it can be false (like some kind of Kundalini thing).
I think people should be careful.
Benny teaches at my church regularly. Watch some of his recent sermons at Jesus Image. I did not grow up charismatic and recently started attending Jesus Image and I can tell you with confidence that when people fall over, it is mostly real. When people are overwhelmingly hungry for Jesus, God moves in powerful ways.
Once again, great program and discussion.
I've personally fallen a couple of times.
The genuine encounters, I walked away having great momentum with the Lord in areas I had been praying into. The fruit has lasted and a great maturity blossomed that has remain until this very day.
However, I've also been pushed down a couple of times as well. Once I was heavily forced, the second time, the "guest speaker" pushed down on the top of my head. Out of confusion and courtesy I just sat down on the floor instead of making a scene. Ugg.....
I believe we open ourselves up to demonic influence when we fall down just because that is what we are "suppose to do" or because we are seeking to be "Acknowledged". The reason I believe so is based on the idea that when we fall as if it is the power of God, even though it is not, we promote lying. When we lie is such a way, we encourage lies and promote lies. This is contrary to the spirit to truth and not the way a child of God should conduct themselves.
When we falsify the power of God, we then become vessels of deception and open up ourselves and those we influence to demonic activity. I won't go into detail as to how that played out in an encounter I had some time ago. But, it is very serious and nothing to play with.
Dr. Michael Brown does a great job in his Book "Playing with Holy Fire" in exposing some of the abuses and errors among us.
Let God move if he so desires to move upon you in his Grace. But, do not fall simply because it is guest speaker "so and so" or because you feel a need to be acknowledged as someone who "Experienced the power". Your identity is in Christ and his Shed Blood, not the amount of time you've fell on the floor.
Go in your prayer closet, read the word of God, seek his face, and you will encounter him. Not for the sake of a manifestation, but for the sake of encountering and knowing Him!
Blessings,
John
Your comment is excellent.
Love this. Thank you for explaining it! I feel the same way
46:06 BAMB!! Exactly! A while ago, the holy spirit dealt with me on this issue and to be honest, when the lord spake to me, it hit! Sometimes its Gods power coming in contact with a demonic power to drive that demon or satanic spirit out of God's people! That hit home! The entire message hit home right to my spirit man! This podcast actually proved being slain in the spirit even more true! I've experienced this "phenomena" several times and it has happened with me. Hallelujah
I think it is a long shot to say Revelation or Mount of Transfiguration falling down are direct, uncontrolled, doing of Holy Spirit.
I've long been curious and or skeptical of being slain in the spirit, probably because it's never happened to me. But I have had experiences where the spirit was so strong or compelling I physically reacted in different ways at different times. I can not deny the experience as real, many(well.. Hasn't happened many times.) times it coinsided directly with a new level of freedom, purity, or love.
That said, I'd like to experience anything and everything Jesus Christ has made available to us, that I may know him more. Likewise I'm cautious of anything that isn't Him, and I've seen plenty that isn't.
@@TheTykus amen brother! Agree- Same for me. I’ve experienced some great and amazing, edifying moments in the Presence of God, but not slain. I’m cautious, but also welcome whatever gift he desires to give
We should want The Giver (God) before The "gift."
I went to see Heidi Baker. During worship I was walking across the room and a man was dancing (spinning) with his arms out in a very crowded room. He slammed his hands into me and others. I got him to stop and sit down and gathered a few people to pray for him with me. It was a huge room and I would not have been able to find leadership to help. This man seemed like he was in a trance when he was dancing. We prayed for deliverance for him and he calmed down.
Heidi Baker?! Very dangerous woman!!!
ive been genuinely "slain". i dont like that term, but i have experienced it, & it wasn't something I was seeking. I'd never even seen it happen before. it was a blessing, but it's difficult to back it up Biblically (with letter & verse that is). thanks guys
riight! I too disagree with the term "slain in the spirit" and i believe that the very term used as "slain' in the spirit" is the very reason why many disagree with this manifestation. However I know without a doubt that it is very much INDEED the Power of the Holy Ghost!! When the natural comes into contact with the supernatural something has got to give. Hallelujah
Could you share more of your experience?
I've NEVER EVER been around this thing. It wasn't on my radar. I asked a friend to pray for healing over my sciatic nerve. She touched me....literally just hand on my shoulder as she prayed a normal prayer for me to be healed. I fell all the way down. No one pushed me. No one insinuated this to me. I just truly wasn't expecting it, but I fell out and was unable to stand in that moment. I beleive it can be real.
There is something in the Old Testament that said: The Priests could NOT stand because the presence of the Lord was so strong. Also, when they came to arrest Jesus, He said: "I am He" and the guards fell backwards to the ground.....
When Daniel saw the angel, he (Daniel) "fell out."
Just because there’s no explicit verse in Scripture to support being “slain in the Spirit” doesn’t mean it’s an invalid experience. There are plenty of things that the Scripture doesn’t address specifically, yet it doesn’t mean it’s of the Devil. Sure there have been abuses (which every church/denomination has their own share), but just because something has the potential to be abused doesn’t mean we dismiss it. I can personally testify that when I was at church service and the presence of God was tangibly present and I fell back and no one laid hands on me or “pushed” me. God touched me that night and I haven’t been the same ever since. “Falling under the power” isn’t a new phenomenon that started in the Pentecostal movement. You can look at John Wesley, Bill Sunday, the Great Awakenings, and throughout church history people have had a genuine experience like this. When it comes to gray issues like this, we cannot get caught up in certain manifestations (though some do unfortunately); we have to look at the fruit that it bears and if people are being draw to the love of Christ, and being empowered by God’s Spirit we can be confident that their experience was valid.
Thank you for sharing this. That's a beautiful testimony, and what you shared is plainly sensible. I really simply don't understand the logic of people who criticise certain things because they're not explicitly "in the Bible" - a God-inspired book filled to the brim with constantly varying miracles from beginning to end! Nothing about this experience violates the scripture.
I was filled with joy and could feel the Holy Spirit for weeks. People asked me what happen to me, they told me that I looked different.
The times I have experienced this have mostly been at the end of a service/conference seminar and I am still in my seat...no hands on me...and I either feel this creeping heaviness all over and i have to lie down or I am glued to my seat.Then the Lord ministers to me directly because,boy,He has my full attention..I feel pinned down and it is a wonderful loving feeling.
What he said at 32:24 is exactly what I experienced when I God healed me after a major operation 3 years ago.
Will all due respect, it is quite astonishing to me that people immediately decry this experience as being not on the Lord based on the Bible - when said Bible is filled from beginning to end with constantly varying miracles and manifestations of God's presence. Many portions of Scripture render this experience positively tame. Saul comes into contact with Samuel and strips off all his clothes and prophecies all night as a result, Jacob wrestles with God and receives a hip injury, Hosea is called by the Lord to marry a prostitute as a prophetic sign, Elisha's bones cause a man to rise from the dead, Jesus turns water into wine, the disciples experience wind from Heaven have tongues of fire descend on their heads, Paul's handkerchiefs drive out demons, Peter's shadow heals the sick, and John even writes that "if all the things Jesus did and said were written down, the whole world would not contain the books" needing to be written - but people falling down because of God's power is apparently outside the realm of possibility? Okay. It does seem to me the "where is that in the Bible?" argument as it is usually utilised against such things is actually entirely flawed in its presuppositions anyway - and also doesn't make any sense in light of the sheer diversity on display in inspired Scripture or the principles of how New Testament authors interpreted Old Testament texts either.
I love RR. Serious discussion combined with humour. I also like fact that you are not arrogant ordogmatic about disputable issues. You guys wisely handle controversial subjects with humility, grace and respect. Bless you guys for this ministry. Keep up the great work.
I have “fell in the Spirit” many times through many different people’s prayers and always felt good, but I did not experience radical change from it. I did have an experience at my home church which I had attended for 10 years. During ministry time the pastor called out for anyone struggling with this particular issue and I don’t even remember what it was, to come forward quickly. I stepped forward a few feet and as soon as the pastor laid hands on me, I was hit by the power of the Holy Spirit and was thrown back four feet and I hit the ground hard (I didn’t feel hitting the floor, but I heard it) This encounter was immediately life changing! It is all Him! The people who pray and people fall out are only conduits of God’s love and power. It’s His Glory.
Great episode guys!
Gosh, I’m so thankful for you guys.
Thank god someone is discussing into such topics
Ayush Lal yeah we are trying to grapple with the hard stuff.
your shedding light on something that needs to be discussed
I've never fallen but there have been a few times I felt a charge of energy rush through my body and a also times when I felt heat in my hands when I prayed for people. What would that be called?
I went from a nominal church to a Pentecostal church and began to feel like there was something wrong with me. I desired being slain and to speak in tongues. I would even try to fall. Then I stopped believing in tongues and being slain. Then Due to my circumstance I became deeply depressed. I was at a prayer meeting, no one touched me and I was slain and totally healed of a clinical depression.
Every instance of God's Followers falling, they fell on their faces. Every instance of God's enemies falling, they fell back.
That's not entirely true.
2 Chronicles 5:14 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of God.
1 Kings 8:11so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD.
there are also a dozen other verses that say that people "fell down" in the presence of the Lord. Though there are many verses that say they "fell down and prostrate" it is a far stretch to say that "every instance of God's followers falling, they fell on their faces". You are going beyond what is written when you speak like that.
I grew up as Pentecostal In Ukraine where Pentecostalism is very similar to Holiness tradition and in the time of my youth in the middle of 90 ies was in distance to such practices as slain in Spirit ,holy laughter ,being drunk in Spirit ..but when i studied in AoG bible school in Kyiv in 1995-96 There was a Great revival In post Soviet time and Church growth explosion ,i visited a meeting in one of Kiev churches where was a guest from Florida connected to Rodney Howard Browne . I see when people experienced something and i felt electrisized atmosphere of Revival . Shortly to said when i back to my traditional church we experienced many supernatural things when i was 18 years old young evangelist conducted youth meeting , - people were slain In Spirit even don't believing In such things i even don't lay hands on some people but they became falling on the flour in different corners of the building , some were took to Heaven and see Jesus ,angels ,some became drunk in Spirit ( it was several times in different meetings with different people ),people felt God's power ..This experience changed my life with Jesus ..our Revival was a long time living
That's a beautiful testimony - thank you for sharing!
There is no such thing as 'drunk in the Spirit.' Drunk indicates that a person is intoxicated to the point of being out of control. However, in Galatians 5 we are told that one of the fruit of the Spirit is self control. The Spirit will not produce a fruit in a person, and then override that. What you saw was people caught up in a frenzy of emotionalism.
@@mikerobertson4041 you maybe have preoposition and prejeustice about such things because never ever expirienced such things ,but they were already in past agaes ,even in Middle Ages of the Church . For example last mentions were about 18 century The Great Awakening when people like John Wesley ,George Whitefield and also during 2 and 3 Great Awakening in 19 ct. also others had something similar ..This also doesn't contradict the Bible and Galations told us about friut of Christian character ,not forbide maninfestatons
God forgive me if I am wrong, but that sounds like a 3 Ring Circus. The Bible also says: "Let all things be done decently and in order."
The Bible also says: "Be filled with the Spirit." We just have to be careful about what "spirit" we "get."
“Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. And Moses said to Aaron, ‘This is what the Lord spoke, saying:
_By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; And before all the people I must be glorified._
So Aaron held his peace” (Leviticus 10: 1-3).
Maranatha!
I didnt grow up with the slain in the spirit or laying flat on the floor when overcome by God .
I've searched scriptures and can find falling down .
But in the charismatic movement its involved with convulsing shaking , holy laughter
The holy spirit being violently slaying someone .
And I cant find that in scripture .
There should be a difference in how a demon manifast and when holy spirit manifest
@@matasaina2011
Yes God has to explain himself cuz its said in scripture that he would .
Paulus complimented the bereans cuz they didnt take paulus word for it , but challanges it with scripture, scripture also says to not belive a diffrent message , even if it comes from Angel's, and scripture also teaches that the devil imitates the things of God with a twist .
It says to be very careful , cuz there will be teachings which will if possible even deceive the elect .
That says it all
Hi guys, just wondering about your thoughts regarding the similarities of “Holy Spirit” to Kundalini Awakening and other New Age manifestation? I’m thinking about Steven Bancarz, Doreen Virtue and Melissa Dougherty and their testimonies xx
Lindsay Sian Trehearne As we said in the show. I’m not sure we can make a case for people falling over from the laying on of hands. But there is a precedence of people not being able to stand in God‘s presence.
We can find this as a consistent biblical theme throughout old and New Testament. Kundalini is a demonic force in cult groups that may cause people to fall over, but preaches a false Gospel.
VERY valid question
One thing that is scary… passing out during a service and people think you’re slain in the spirit. Not fun! It did happen to me. Nope, I was having a medical emergency. I did end up experiencing a healing of POTS symptoms afterwards which itself has no cure since it is due to Neuro damage to the vagus nerve. God used it but scary that no one had any idea how much I was struggling.
Excellent teaching🕊✝️❤
What comes to my mind in some parts of this dialogue, is that There are so much things of the Spirit that are difficult to "explain" in a "reasonable" manner. Where does it say scripturally that the things of the Spirit are craziness to the natural men which can't discern the things of the Spirit?
How do we now, that it is the spirit of God really operating there ?
Hey @The Remnant Radio, I know this is way after the fact, but I see 1 Cor 14:32 used to argue that the Holy Spirit won't cause us to lose control and therefore against being slain in the spirit. What do you guys think of that verse?
If you wonder what value being knocked down might bring, well for me it settled any question of God being real? At maybe age 7 or 8 I went to a neighbor's home for a childen's ' bible study. There were folks dancing around, being prayed for while in a chair often falling down when they got up, I remember saying to myself when my turn came " if I FALL DOWN God will have to do it? When I WENT TO GET UP, DOWN i went?
Also in Acts. they thought the disicples were drunk..thought you guys did good job breakin it down...
“All it takes to have the gift of discernment is a critical spirit and a pair of eyes” …. Sounds like John MacArthur. 👍
Advent of Eve slayed many spirits 🤘😱
I’m a skeptic 🤨. Especially to the gifts of the spirit . But ....You guys seem super genuine which has been hard for me to find in this area of theology . Most apostolic / Pentecostal / charismatic folks that I’ve watched on RUclips seem super dishonest and money hungry . I’m trying to learn so I appreciate your channel . ✌🏼
Skeptical Jed: I think you so much for the interaction. I think we should be skeptical. We don’t want to be so open minded that our brain falls out. I advise every charismatic friend I come across to watch our series Gnosticism.
Do to the origination of the Pentecostal movement during the early 1900s there has been a lot of anti-intellectualism deep rooted in the movement. The Christian academic community ridiculed the tongue talkers for being a demon possessed or mentally ill. This went on for quite a long time and the Pentecostal movement subconsciously or consciously determined they wanted nothing to do with academia.
I I think this is probably why it will be hard to find a theologically skeptical Penecostal or charismatic. Because the movements in which these individuals are raised are often, not always, anti-intellectual. Usually the sound continuationist that I have found were raised main line evangelicals who then had a charismatic experience.
So I would recommend guys like John piper, Jack dear, Sam storms, and Wayne Grudem. Very conservative theologically robust continuationist. There are other guys like Craig Keener and Dr. Michael Brown I would also recommend but I would not necessarily say they are mainline evangelical.
The Remnant Radio ....You stepped it up a notch with that response . I have downloaded on RUclips red a bunch of your shows to listen to as I travel the roads of Alabama . I have been in a skeptical conundrum for at least ten years and have run the gamut on tons of atheist vs theist debates and apologetic literature. I’m still riding the fence with God as well but I’ve been trying to jump off on the Jesus side for about a year . It’s a daily struggle for me. I guess we will see what happens down the road. Thanks again for the information and your advice ✌🏼.
Skeptical Jed I didn’t realize your skepticism was more agnostic than cecessionist. Where abouts do you live?
The Remnant Radio . I’m a medical device sales rep so I travel the state to various hospitals . I live just outside Birmingham ✌🏼
Might i recommend mike winger and steven bancarz
Do a video on “laughing from the Holy Spirit.”
I have wanted to be empowered by the Holy Spirit for the work of His kingdom a very long time. I have considered going up to the altar a lot, but some of what I see occur there terrifies me. People sprinting around and hollering just puts me in a state of fear when I want to be empowered to service rather than experience. A few nights ago a young girl went up to the altar and people laid hands on her. Someone else got up to testify at the same time and I couldn't hear a word she said because this other girl was surrounded by people shouting in her face. She began to speak in tongues for the first time, which is great, but I'm just completely terrified of being surrounded by people shouting in my face if I go up there. Some of what they were shouting was just ba ba ba ba ba ba, while another shouted praise, praise over and over. It can really become psychologically dismantling to other people when things get out of control and chaotic like this. If that was me that got surrounded with people shouting in my face and babeling, I'd probably lose my mind and start shoving people out of the way to flee the situation entirely.
acc abb where do you live?
@@TheRemnantRadio Edit: Let me know if you missed the location.
Run from that church.
God is not the author of confusion, plain and simple. What you saw was people worked up into an emotional frenzy. The young girl began to speak in tongues. Who interpreted? From your short description I see so much out of order. Not good.
If I were you, I would get out of that Church. Do you have a reason for staying? (Such as family members who go there?) There are all kinds of Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches. Some are more conservative and Biblically-minded than others....
Very good guys...
The thing Ive been thinking about is Jesus said every sin shall be forgiven, but the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit not in this lifetime or the next..Sooooo in other words how do we discern or judge if its the Holy Spirit without Blasphemy the Holy Spirit..? If that makes sence
Most of the slain in the spirit examples I've seen over the years is very selfish and involves people trying to out do each other in their oddities and such. One would act like a chicken and another would bray like a donkey, etc. You have to ask yourself: what does this have to do with serving the Lord? What is this accomplishing for His family? It just seems like a self centered show that people are putting on in support of a superstar evangelist that relishes in all the attention. I just do not see the good fruit that should come out of such activity.
That is the discerning of spirit its th Holy Spirit which gives us spiritual insight we have to always know its God not us
I think if I went to a Church where people brayed like donkeys and cackled like chickens, I would leave immediately....The Bible says: "Let all things be done DECENTLY and IN order." The "donkey and chicken" thing is neither one of them....
I think if I went to a Church where people brayed like donkeys and cackled like chickens, I would leave immediately....The Bible says: "Let all things be done DECENTLY and IN order." The "donkey and chicken" thing is neither one of them....
@@caroleimani9754 Absolutely right to be sure. I would be so ashamed if the people in my church acted that way. As I said, it becomes a self-centered show and nothing to do with praise and worship.
I think it's mostly in the mind. The confusion over this issue is evidence to me that it's not of God. Being in the precense of God means being in heaven or God literally descending something close to his fullness upon where you are.
Common in old line pentecost.also happened in early holiness and Methodist movements,.
Falling on your face before a Holy God seems quite different than falling on your back because a self proclaimed apostle praying, blowing, and maybe even pushing you to the ground.
One suggestion I do have is the volume needs to be much higher. I have to use an amplifier in order to hear your guests.
Dan Johnson thanks for the suggestion
oh no it doesn't lmao its perfect volume
@@AnsweringMusic That's one opinion and you have every right to be wrong. Lol
@@TheRemnantRadio I also find an issue with the volume between you all. Often one is quiet and the other louder. Someone else mentioned it before. But other than that, love the show!
It isn't very loud....
The dude with the hat saying that it is not a sign of GOD on someone's life and call, then says "it's fun".... totally disagree with that view. God's presence should be revered and God's way of moving should be honored. Who are we to dictate to the Most High how "we think HE should do things?
Problem is it is NOT being "slain in the Spirit"....... it is being
under the power of the Spirit. Second problem and the biggest
problem..... Pastors are so guilty of just "pushing" people over, they
like to make a show of themselves and look so "holy". No,,,, just love
Jesus and forget about all the "drama" that pastors like to wallow
in.!!!!
Jonathan Edwards , John Wesley, George Whitefield. R.A Torrey and D L Moody or even Charles Finney meetings has these wild things happen. I tend to believe if it happens it just does . I like the book Ken Fish's wife wrote that J.I Packer gave a endorsement as pertaining to inner healing to the book the River is here. But I don't seek to experience those things. It is not a merit badge or such. It is the fruit of the experiences that point us back to the Lord. A great conversation . Note the Dr who claimed to say he died of Alcoholicism recanted in an interview speaking of A.A Allen. Note not saying he did not have a drinking issue.My original mentors in the manifestations of the Spirit were directly apart of the Voice of Healing circles as kids and teens from Dallas and Midwest.
The power of suggestion.
He sounds so much like Michael Knowles
He looks like him too… (secret cousins)
Being “slain in the spirit” is not biblical. Using old and new testament texts about reverence to push this narrative is disappointing. If you really do respect Heisers work, he explains what is happening with the Apostles.
I’ve witnessed people being slained and it is not reverence, it is exactly the same as voodoo priests putting demonic spirits in people. There is a huge difference between being “slain in spirit” and being baptized, accepting Jesus, & the Holy Spirit coming upon a person.
I hear your examples about the moments in scripture where people fall down when they see the glory of God. But as noted, in my opinion those definitely sound different from what's happening in some churches.
When people like John fall down "as if dead", I take it to mean he fell down in worship because he was witnessing something huge. He was seeing Jesus in his glory. That isn't a normal event. But these "slayings" are happening all the time.
So my only caution is paying attention to the context around these passages. Not to cherry-pick events and try to apply them to other situations that don't apply.
The picture on the video of the guy with his hands up is a good answer for the question for most. If you don't know how can you make a video and answer any question except your own doubts.
I would guess most of you have never had a supper natural healing doesn't mean its not true. With any think in this life or world you have people who lie and who tell the truth. Me and my mom went to a meeting month ago it happened to her not me and while she was down i ask God should i get her up i heard no I'm not done yet. She was down about 15 min and when she started to get up she was shaking and wobbly. I ASKED HER LATER WAS IT REAL AND SHE SAID YES ( MOM DON'T LIE) BUT WE CAN'T SAY WHY ARE WHAT GOD DID MAY NOT KNOW TILL WE GET TO HEAVEN. BUT SOMETHING HAPPENED
Did you watch this video?
I’m more than a bit concerned that you brought up Catholic mystics during this conversation.
The blankets were created when most women wore dresses!
“If a quest speaker is pushing we gave a meeting about having them back” paraphrased
Really? Why even have discussion about it. Anyone willing to be that deceitful should not be ministering in that role.
The gift of *discerning of spirits* not the “gift of discernment”… There is not “gift of discernment”
Josh I think that you might be Bapticostal!
Melanie Anderson I do belong to an SBC church. So. Yeah that’s fare.
Laughing during prayer is a mockery to the holy spirit. Drunkenness is a sin
I agree. The Bible clearly says not to be drunk with wine which leads to debauchery but to be FILLED with the Spirit -- it does NOT say don't be drunk with wine but be drunk with the Spirit. This passage is gravely taken out of context. If one continues to read the passage, the Holy Spirit inspired scripture tells us what being filled with the Spirit looks like, and it is NOT falling over laughing. It says singing songs and hymns, greeting the brethren, etc.
I have zero experience with the charasmatic church. But I have fallen over once when I asked a friend to pray for my sciatic nerve to be healed. There was no music. Just me and her and another friend standing there. No emotions. Just, "hey would you pray for this nerve to quit bothering me." She touched my shoulder in just a normal way and said a normal prayer, and I did sink down to the ground. My sciatic nerve never bothered me again. I have also had difficulty standing upright in His presence (although I have been able to force myself to stand in those situations when in my church service, which is southern Baptist, and everyone stands erect and follows all the very non-charasmatic rules lol). Falling to the ground was NO WHERE on my radar or my friend's radar. So I do believe it is possible to fall under the presence of the Spirit (maybe He came over me while healing me. Idk). But we must use wisdom given by God and we MUST, above all, I believe, have love for the truth. If we love the truth, then we will not be deceived.
@@deanag1043 Of course it is.... But God is not a spiritual rollercoaster. He's not trying to give us spiritual highs and we shouldn't be seeking them.... There are a ton of new age practices you can partake in if what you want is a spiritual high... There's a ton of substances you can take. All of which scripture literally tells us to avoid.... Falling out and stuff like that doesn't happen because God wants to knock us out so u can say I got knocked out. Perhaps got just puts u to sleep to do a physical repair... Perhaps u literally are overwelmed in the moment emotionally and I literally pass out .... Which is fine. God is awesome, nothing wrong with getting emotionally spiked about God. But we need to stop saying God slayed me as some sort of feat. It seems its the end result of something else you personally r experiencing or something God wanted to accomplish that required u to rest in that moment.
If you cannot discern an evil spirit instantly, you have a huge problem.
Y'alls episodes never disappoint. Miller talks around 23:50 about his first time being slain in the Spirit. The first time that happened to me, I bent my knees and crouched and thought "No one is going to push me down!" I think the minister could sense my resistance, and he just held his hand in front of me and said "Do what you want to do Lord" then turned away. As soon as he turned around, I fell backwards and hit the floor like a ton of bricks. The Lord gave me numerous visions and direction. I realized it didn't have anything to do with the minister, but happened because the Lord wanted to meet me there. Every subsequent time I have at least felt the Lord's presence and peace, if not direction or visions. Thankful for the Lord and his presence and power!
Benny hinn done fooled a lot of people! & made himself a multi millionaire in the process.. smh
John MacArthur’s ‘Strange Fire’ is not a good book to recommend with regards to the topic here. It’s nothing more than stereotyping Pentecostals (bearing false witness). MacArthur cherry picks and selectively crafts material that is less than straightforward about the Charismatic Movement. It’s a very dishonest book. I would recommend ‘Strangers to Fire’ (edited by Robert W. Graves) which is a rebuttal by various charismatic scholars. I can speak on authority as I have been a member of MacArthur’s church for 15 years and I am not a cessationist. In fact that doctrine is error, fits the definition of idolatry, and is postmodern philosophy.
And yes I can give you a very good Biblical argument for things like ‘being slain in the spirit’. Coincidentally the dream that Matthew described where he was shaking but heard the LORD tell him to proclaim fruit is a good sign of what the important element is. The Bible ignores this phenomena because the LORD wants the focus to be the fruit produced.
Matt 7:15-20
Isaiah 11:1-3 (Gal 5:22-23)
I Samuel 16:7
“We don’t care whether you shake or fall in here. It’s how you walk after you’ve left the building.
Dr. Michael Brown, assessment of the manifestations seen during the Brownsville revival.
There is no biblical precedent for being slain in the Spirit. All the verses cited have no tangible connection or relation to what happens or is done when someone is slain in the Spirit. When the only evidence for this is "I had this experience" then it's suspect. Every religious group has loads of people who believe the claims of their religion because of personal experience. When "slain in the Spirit" is put to the test, it fails. Basing your beliefs on personal experience is a wide path to believing falsehoods.
Too many Christians especially here in the states are so bunbarded with materialism that they start speaking spiritual highs..... This is the culture from which being slain in the spirit arises. It's obvious to me that most people in line to get hands laid on them are there for a spiritual high .... Not for any specific healing for to get interceded with on something they are battling. And so anyone seeking any high will quickly get smoked by demonic realm who have a million ways to quench that thirst. In this case it's by raising up wolves in sheep's clothing who want fame and respect for their healing power or prophetic power, and giving them all of the spiritual aid they desire to perform low budget miracles on people seeking that high. All of this makes the church look absolutely insane and filled with nutcases who are clearly just looking for the next high. Prove me wrong. An encounter with God is a sober experience filled with a mix of aww and humility. Not a freaking comedy show or a gas chamber.
You called being slain in the spirit an "extra biblical" experience. But nothing could be further than the truth... Just look at Acts chapter 2.
Before you had your program you guys would have done well to talk to somebody who can explain it to you. This did not start at Azusa Street, it goes back hundreds of years. being able to lay hands on somebody and have them fall out under the power is not a goal for anybody in the ministry. It's not a feather in anybody's cap. It's a sovereign work of the Holy Spirit. You guys have the focus on the falling down stuff. It's not about falling down it's about what happens while you are down. Sometimes God is rewiring a person while they're down. Sometimes they're being physically healed. Sometimes God is mending a broken heart.
I've seen people on the floor for 4 or 5 hours. When they can finally get up there a different person. Heidi Baker had to be carried around for three days. When she went back to Mozambique, her efforts as a missionary went from planting a church or two a year to 2,500 in a year. Gentleman, it's all about fruit. If you really want to know if God is anywhere near this phenomenon, interview people whose lives have been changed by this experience. Nobody comes to the altar and says slay me in the spirit. They go to the altar with life and death in the balance. And sometimes God has a little conversation with then while they are on the floor.
I was born again at seven years of age. When I was 18 I got filled with the Holy Spirit evidence by speaking in tongues. I didn't feel a thing. But the baptism in the Holy Spirit gives you the power to be a witness and lead you into all truth. But people... All they can do is talk about the tongues part of it. I was in Longview Washington around 1971 or two when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. It was during the beginning of the Jesus people movement but I never heard of a Jesus people movement. Nevertheless I exploded into flames. I prayed for I don't know how many people leading them to the Lord kneeling down on a curb. I pray for healing.
a Baptist crusade came through town and asked me to go with them for the summer. I helped start a church that next year. This is fruit.
I have prayed for hundreds maybe thousands of people that not only fell out under the power but watch their broken heart mend as they wept uncontrollably for 3 hours. Gentleman I have seen lives touched and changed. I've laid hands on people in public that didn't know a church pew from a communion cup and they fell out and hit the ground. She knew that she had just had an encounter with the Lord. you don't have to ask somebody twice if they want to get saved when this happens to them. I could tell you story after story. I want touched a lady in Pizza hut on the shoulder that I knew as I walked up to her from behind. She fell out of her chair. I seen the joy of the Lord hit a funeral.
Those who flow in the supernatural simply carry the glory of God. It's the same thing as when people would try to get into Peter's shadow. When you have an overflow of living water it splashes on people. I've never asked God to slay somebody in the spirit. It's a sovereign active Grace by God himself. As a worship leader in a prophetic psalmist, I've seen people fallout by a directed gliss on my Strat. I've seen things that glorify God like you wouldn't believe. Funny thing is... I have never been slain in the spirit. I was a pastor and worship leader during this revival they called renewal starting in the early 90s. I've prayed for people and seeing him fall down and start laughing till they were delivered of a spirit of heaviness with joy unspeakable and full of Glory. But that's never happened to me. I've prayed for people that got so drunk in the spirit they couldn't stand up or even talk. But that's never happened to me. And I'm okay with that. Sometimes there needs to be a designated driver.
Said all that to say this is that spoken by the prophet Joel. If you could see the changed lives. If you could see the marriages restored. If you could see joy for ashes you would do everything you could in your power to be like Peter who said: "freely I have received and freely I give....."
You guys have the show wrong. We are not gurus. We are not demon possessed. And we take no pride if God uses us to wield his power. I'll tell you what we are though....Donkeys. We are donkeys. When Jesus rode into Jerusalem for his triumphal entry, he rode in on a she-colt of an ass. Yep... That's me. And when everybody cries hosanna... The donkey knows exactly who the accolades are for. We just carry the glory, where the Anti-Shadow thereof comes in contact with an open heart and we see people saved healed and delivered.
Of course wherever there is the real deal they're going to be counterfeits. People like Simon bar-Jesus. There will always be people who will want the experience and not the life change that comes with it. Generally we can discern that in a person that comes up for prayer. Many times have I held somebody from falling down cuz I knew it was not God. And it's generally not the devil either. It's usually simply the flesh.
I would encourage you guys to talk to an Assembly of God pastor, for instance. Or contact me and I will explain the stuff to you from how it is found in scripture and it's practical. You can get my number on Facebook. Better yet, contact my best friend and co-laborer in Christ, pastor Dan Helland.
He has the lead pastor at East End Assembly of God Church in Henrico county just 10 minutes south of Richmond Virginia. He's pretty well-known...TBN, pastors prayer at the Capitol building in DC and a lot more than I'll say here. It would certainly be worth the phone call. You can tell him Neil Jones sent you. (That's me) He is also a Presbyter for the Assemblies of God.
Let me ask you one last quick question:
Q: if somebody could share the word of God with you to where you realized there is more to this than you thought, would you leave your current narrative? I think you are Men of Honor and I believe you would take the truth over something less. Put on your Berean excellence. Don't just ask people who are doubtful, ask somebody who knows.
Love your Channel.
Be blessed,
Idk about using heidi baker as an example of someone being HOLY spirit filled......
@@somethinggood9267
Hi,
I don't quite follow what you're saying. Could you expound a little?
Thanks,
If one is born again and one knows that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit lives in US, and if we walk by the Spirit WHY WOULD THE SPIRIT SLAIN HIS SONS AND DAUGHTERS?
Have you guys or anyone approached a number of these church members and asked them questions like, what happened, did God speak to you, what did you feel, was God being glorified with your experience, how many times has this happened to you, did you have a different experiences every time or is there a certain repeated peace or word or sound or healing or revelation that is experienced?.
It would benefit the church if one knew what was happening to the people that were being slain in the Spirit. WHAT IS THE SPIRIT SAYING OR DOING TO THESE PEOPLE?
Why does one have to have a catcher behind them, will the spirit allow someone to fall and hurt themselves?
All the examples you gave where there any catchers? You guys have you fallen under the power of the Spirit, if so could you tell us what you experienced, what did you feel, what did God do for you, what did you get from the experience?
IF THERE WERE NO CATCHES AND APRONS WOULD THE PEOPLE STILL FALL BACKWARDS? Why use catchers? WHO INTRODUCED OR STARTED HAVING CATCHERS in the churches. Could it be that people were getting seriously hurt and even suing the churches?
We are in the end times , your going to see lost of these things that are NOT biblical !
Do I believe an individual can be overwhelmed by God’s presence via the laying on of hands? Yep.
But I think most people are giving courtesy falls. They don’t want to look like they’ve not with the program. A kind of Christian virtue signaling.
Worse, much worse, most ministers are pushing.
I don’t know why we by the millions don’t see or look the other way.
I find it reprehensible.
Galatians 5:22-23 New International Version (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. A fruit of the spirit is SELF CONTROL
Are these people exercising SELF CONTROL when the fall OR ARE THE being CONTROLLED BY ANOTHER SPIRIT?
Do you think that if we use common knowledge like:- IT WOULD HELP ANSWER MANY QUESTIONS ASKED RELATING TO THE BIBLE
If Jesus TAUGHT IT OK
If Jesus DID IT OK
If the Apostles DID IT OK
If the Apostles TAUGHT IT OK
ON A LIGHTER NOTE
JUDE 24 ...24 Now unto him that is ABLE TO KEEP YOU FROM FALLING, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, STICK TO JESUS HE WILL KEEP YOU FROM FALLING ....
Psalm 91:7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, BUT IT WILL NOT COME NEAR YOU.
: )