Excellent video Dave!! Your tutorial was spot on. The volt meter is parallel with the power running through it from the transformer, while your amp meter is in series with the “Hot” or Center Rail from the volt meter. Well done. Just remember, the ZW has great power of 275 Watts, but it does not have a lot of Amps, and when it comes to power, Amps are KING! Each of the 4 channels of A, B, C, and D only put out 3.437 amps per channel. 275 Watts divided by 20 volts = 13.75 amps total. Divide 13.75 amps by each of the (4) A, B, C, and D channels and you get 3.437 amps per channel. So be careful when hooking up a lot of things like illuminated passenger cars and things of the sorts, because you can trip those new circuit breakers easily by drawing too much power, and then you’ll be scratching your head thinking you hooked up all of your meters incorrectly. It’s not so. Postwar transformers put out high wattages, not high amperage. Also, ALL Postwar transformers put out Smooth Sine Waves, compared to today’s modern transformers that put out Chopped Sine Waves. Chopped Sine Wave transformers are designed for modern train components that use capacitors for smoke units, electro couplers, digital sounds etc. Modern day trains don’t work as well with Postwar transformers because of the lower amperage, and the Smooth Sine Wave they put out.
Gages are actually useful AND fun to have, I had them on the power supply last year when running the trains off an industrial "variac" for power. Also I found the limits of my old Lionel's with the meters too, the KW couldn't handle my long trains, the LW's could supply 8 even 9 amps before the circuit breakers popped. Only thing to keep track of is the amperage ratings of the ammeter. Guess u can assume if they have the capability of measuring a certain amount , they can handle that amount? When I pull my longer multi locomotive trains up a grade I often push 8 to 9 amps. The variac I have will easily handle/supply 20 amps continuous , MOST layouts will never need more than 5 amps :) Actually something u might have fun trying someday ( the variac) . A decent one has a better wave form as well than the older Lionel's. Anyway this is a real interesting video for me. You will have a more organized plan than my hack and smoke. ( they didn't smoke, worked quite well, and planning to reinstall the meters and variac on the layout this winter )
For the Buzzing or annoying transformers when you have some loose windings that are driving you insane..... What works great for the noise reduction is clear silicone. Apply some clear silicone to the outsides of the coils where the carbon rollers are Not on. The rubberized silicone once cured acts as a shock absorber or dampener which will stop almost all noise from the transformer. When applying the silicone, make sure that it's getting pushed into the copper windings well and applying it from one end of the lamination to the other is preferred. Clear silicone is a insulator, so there's absolutely no electrical risks here. Hope this helps you Dave or anyone else who's ZW or any type or brand transformer you have that's become a nuisance to the ears. Good luck and keep the trains rollin. 😊
I've been dealing with circuit schematics for over 30 years. Your diagram of how to wire up the breaker LED voltmeter ammeter is perfect, and easy to understand. You said you felt like you were struggling with it; I think you're doing great
Thanks! It took my brain a while to warm up and arrive at the point I could film. The breakers I have are not quick enough for modern trains. I definitely need quicker ones.
I was headed down nearly the exact same road as you; I had the two postwar ZWs, was about to order the meters, breakers and such to put it all together.... But I ended up deciding against it. I ended up biting the bullet and bought a new Lionel ZW-L instead. Sure, it put a dent in the wallet... But the integrated meters on it are nice, circuit protection is awesome, has more reliable whistle controllers, doesn't take up much space and still has that retro ZW look. I also like the big size of it.... almost twice that of a ZW. I'm keeping the postwar ZWs (I bought them restored) on standby just in case the ZW-L craps out... although it has been working just fine for about a year.👍
Dave, when that revision of a ZW buzzes, it's due to failure of the bonding agent between the T-shaped anchor piece and the main section of the steel laminations. The way I fix them is to drive a narrow putty knife into the gap to separate the anchor piece. Clean the mating surfaces and apply 5 minute epoxy, then clamp it tightly.
@@dagryffynhobby I've done several with epoxy and they seem to run cooler. My concern is that silicone caulk would be too thick and also not adhere as well.
Actually very informative. As to ZW's. As a kid I had one and then added a second. I liked the hum. I had them before I spent 36 years in the Army, eleven of which were in the self-propelled Artillery. Now; what hum?
This is inspiring. While watching the video I was checking out inexpensive volt/amp meters on Ali Express. I think I found some cool ones. Also, for my EPO, I have an Echo I. The train room, and my trains are on a smart switch. Even from across the room I can call out “Alexa! Turn off train!”
Dave, if you install the E-stop ahead of the 120 volt receptacle serving your transformer(s), then it can serve as a master kill switch each time you exit the room to ensure that you disconnect all power sources from your layout using only one switch. . If it's installed on the 120 vlot supply line, all the wiring methods would need to be installed per your local codes using rated wiring and enclosures. The E-stop would be required to be 120 volt rated at 15 amps minimum. You could then install a multi outlet TVSS surge power strip from the switched receptacle to supply multiple transformers from one master kill switch. This is how I have configured my setup. Only I used a single pole light switch at the 4 gang light switch by the door of my train room and I kill everything in my train room when exiting. This ensures that I don't inadvertently leave anything on accidentally. If I can see Lights off then trains off by turning all switces off. The entire duplex receptacle can be switched by the E-stop or by running a 3 wire with ground and breaking the tab on the hot side of the receptacle located between the brass screws you can split wire the receptacle to be half hot half switched. I'm a retired electrician with 47 years experience in the trade and would be glad to help with any further wiring or code related questions if desired. The low voltage wiring from the secondary side of your transformers is less of a potential fire or electrocution risk than the 120 volt primary supply side. The older transformers are linear loads and provide a somewhat pure 60 hertz sign wave and is actually a cleaner power supply than the solid state variety. Ironically solid state transformers are non-linear and as such produces a dirty chopped sign wave otherwise known as harmonic load that is the cause of chip degradation. Electronic circuits in and of themselves is one source of non-linear loads. Using TVSS ( transit voltage surge suppression) on the load side of the transformer is the best way to protect the sensitive electronic devices of modern electronic equipment. The best protection against harmonic loads or non-linear transit voltages is to install it on both sides where power is utilized to mitigate transits such as a transit voltage power strip ahead of the transformer and again from each individual positive secondary transformer tap. The use of a TVSS circuit breaker or whole panel surge protector is also encouraged to mitigate potential threats to all of the sensitive electronics in your home against lightning and utility switching. Every TVSS unit only provides minimal clamping voltage with some let through. So the more the merrier. The end goal is to get as close to zero let through as possible with each providing a line of defense so to speak. Transits occurs overtime slowly degrading chips like cancer, causing chip failure at some point. Like I said Ironically non-linear loads in and of themselves are responsible for this phenomena as well and computer Chips are used in almost everything in a modern home. From furnaces to a/c units to even our LED lights not to mention microwaves, TVs, computers and now even our trains. Circuit breakers protect against short circuits or overloads. TVSS surge protects against transit voltages. Harmonics are additional sign waves generated by non-linear loads on to the pure 60 hertz sign wave. So third, forth, and fifth harmonics are third, forth, fifth sign waves which aren't a problem for liner loads such as motors and transformer but wreak havoc on non-linear loads such as sensitive electronics.
You've gotten some great advice here Dave, nothing I can add that's worthwhile. Except maybe with my warped sense of humor I'd set up the control panel to where it looked like something Doctor Frankenstein might use!
Gave me tons of great ideas! I like the emergency stop button. Here is a thought for you. Have a key lock on your panel. This way no unauthorized running.
I noticed your breakers are 5 AMP. I have 5 AMP on mine, and I do have a non problematic situation that will pop them every time: when I run a string of 12 lit passenger cars behind a double headed set of F7s. That pulls about 8-9 AMPs, which the ZW and Z4000 can deliver in their sleep.
A main input power kill is a good idea. I use a power switch (big rocker style illuminated light when on and light off when open) inline with power cord. Kill s/b on main power not any output out of transformer. The foam is only for layout setup right? A high temp non metallic epoxy will fix the transformer loose coils. Nice you are sharing the electrical up grades you plan for.
Dave you can use an in line circuit breaker rated for switch duty as your kill switch. Make sure to add the watts for each transformer together and divide by 120 volts to get total Amps. Do not exceed 80% of the breaker amp rating. May I suggest using some heat shrinks on your connections. Your ideas for a simple control panel are well thought out. I enjoy your channel and budget minded approach.
You've set up another interesting project, Dave, but I'm sure it's not something you can't see to the end. I think you have a sense of electrical knowledge more than you give yourself credit for. Just try to not get injured. 'Wisely and slow, for they stumble who run fast' was the monk's advice to Romeo on their way to Juliet's tomb. Romeo didn't take the advice and everything went south. If necessary, latch on to a collector or a website that has or relates experience with this type of panel building. You'll be fine.
The only thing that comes to mind is ( suggestion) is use larger gauge wire. I’m thinking you’ll loose some amps going through your board . But I’m not neither a electrician.
Yeah, there are calculations for wire size but that’s beyond my skill. I will be using a larger wire though. I have a lot of scrap 14 and 12 gauge wire from when I renovated my house.
Great video! I did the same thing with gauges on my layout. 😄 Don't have a Z4000 transformer so I figured I would add meters. I think the analog meters beat a digital readout any day anyways!
I am curious about how much current is being used for a dual pull more motor engine with a long consist of cars, will it trip a 5-amp breaker when it starts up or running at full speed puffing smoke.
Ammeters are even more important than voltmeters. BUT MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN METER WITH AN INTERNAL SHUNT OR YOU NEED TO PROVIDE AN EXTERNAL METER SHUNT FOR YOUR AMMETER!!!!!
@@dagryffynhobby it should be marked. If there’s no marking, assume no shunt. A 50 microvolt shunt across the meter is then needed. This will protect the delicate meter from being subjected to full track current.
@@dagryffynhobby Dude, I'm 76 years old. Talk about aches, pains, not to mention multiple doctors appointments. Enjoy what you have. The golden years have a lot of tarnish. I gave up on the lawn ages ago.
Emergency shut off buttons are smart and I think the big red buttons would look cool too lol
Excellent video Dave!! Your tutorial was spot on. The volt meter is parallel with the power running through it from the transformer, while your amp meter is in series with the “Hot” or Center Rail from the volt meter. Well done. Just remember, the ZW has great power of 275 Watts, but it does not have a lot of Amps, and when it comes to power, Amps are KING! Each of the 4 channels of A, B, C, and D only put out 3.437 amps per channel. 275 Watts divided by 20 volts = 13.75 amps total. Divide 13.75 amps by each of the (4) A, B, C, and D channels and you get 3.437 amps per channel. So be careful when hooking up a lot of things like illuminated passenger cars and things of the sorts, because you can trip those new circuit breakers easily by drawing too much power, and then you’ll be scratching your head thinking you hooked up all of your meters incorrectly. It’s not so. Postwar transformers put out high wattages, not high amperage. Also, ALL Postwar transformers put out Smooth Sine Waves, compared to today’s modern transformers that put out Chopped Sine Waves. Chopped Sine Wave transformers are designed for modern train components that use capacitors for smoke units, electro couplers, digital sounds etc. Modern day trains don’t work as well with Postwar transformers because of the lower amperage, and the Smooth Sine Wave they put out.
Gages are actually useful AND fun to have, I had them on the power supply last year when running the trains off an industrial "variac" for power. Also I found the limits of my old Lionel's with the meters too, the KW couldn't handle my long trains, the LW's could supply 8 even 9 amps before the circuit breakers popped. Only thing to keep track of is the amperage ratings of the ammeter. Guess u can assume if they have the capability of measuring a certain amount , they can handle that amount? When I pull my longer multi locomotive trains up a grade I often push 8 to 9 amps. The variac I have will easily handle/supply 20 amps continuous , MOST layouts will never need more than 5 amps :) Actually something u might have fun trying someday ( the variac) . A decent one has a better wave form as well than the older Lionel's. Anyway this is a real interesting video for me. You will have a more organized plan than my hack and smoke. ( they didn't smoke, worked quite well, and planning to reinstall the meters and variac on the layout this winter )
For the Buzzing or annoying transformers when you have some loose windings that are driving you insane..... What works great for the noise reduction is clear silicone. Apply some clear silicone to the outsides of the coils where the carbon rollers are Not on. The rubberized silicone once cured acts as a shock absorber or dampener which will stop almost all noise from the transformer. When applying the silicone, make sure that it's getting pushed into the copper windings well and applying it from one end of the lamination to the other is preferred. Clear silicone is a insulator, so there's absolutely no electrical risks here. Hope this helps you Dave or anyone else who's ZW or any type or brand transformer you have that's become a nuisance to the ears. Good luck and keep the trains rollin. 😊
That’s an amazing idea. I will have to try that. Thanks!
I've been dealing with circuit schematics for over 30 years.
Your diagram of how to wire up the breaker LED voltmeter ammeter is perfect, and easy to understand.
You said you felt like you were struggling with it; I think you're doing great
Thanks! It took my brain a while to warm up and arrive at the point I could film. The breakers I have are not quick enough for modern trains. I definitely need quicker ones.
I was headed down nearly the exact same road as you; I had the two postwar ZWs, was about to order the meters, breakers and such to put it all together.... But I ended up deciding against it. I ended up biting the bullet and bought a new Lionel ZW-L instead. Sure, it put a dent in the wallet... But the integrated meters on it are nice, circuit protection is awesome, has more reliable whistle controllers, doesn't take up much space and still has that retro ZW look. I also like the big size of it.... almost twice that of a ZW. I'm keeping the postwar ZWs (I bought them restored) on standby just in case the ZW-L craps out... although it has been working just fine for about a year.👍
Really enjoyed this one. Looking forward the next video on your panel and cart.
Dave, when that revision of a ZW buzzes, it's due to failure of the bonding agent between the T-shaped anchor piece and the main section of the steel laminations.
The way I fix them is to drive a narrow putty knife into the gap to separate the anchor piece.
Clean the mating surfaces and apply 5 minute epoxy, then clamp it tightly.
That makes sense. Someone else mentioned a silicone caulk. You prefer the epoxy? Seems like the caulk would be easier.
@@dagryffynhobby I've done several with epoxy and they seem to run cooler.
My concern is that silicone caulk would be too thick and also not adhere as well.
👍 This is going to be good!
I sure hope so!
Very impressive
Thanks!
Actually very informative. As to ZW's. As a kid I had one and then added a second. I liked the hum. I had them before I spent 36 years in the Army, eleven of which were in the self-propelled Artillery. Now; what hum?
This is inspiring. While watching the video I was checking out inexpensive volt/amp meters on Ali Express. I think I found some cool ones. Also, for my EPO, I have an Echo I. The train room, and my trains are on a smart switch. Even from across the room I can call out “Alexa! Turn off train!”
Great video very informative thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching 👍
Dave, if you install the E-stop ahead of the 120 volt receptacle serving your transformer(s), then it can serve as a master kill switch each time you exit the room to ensure that you disconnect all power sources from your layout using only one switch. . If it's installed on the 120 vlot supply line, all the wiring methods would need to be installed per your local codes using rated wiring and enclosures. The E-stop would be required to be 120 volt rated at 15 amps minimum. You could then install a multi outlet TVSS surge power strip from the switched receptacle to supply multiple transformers from one master kill switch. This is how I have configured my setup. Only I used a single pole light switch at the 4 gang light switch by the door of my train room and I kill everything in my train room when exiting. This ensures that I don't inadvertently leave anything on accidentally. If I can see Lights off then trains off by turning all switces off. The entire duplex receptacle can be switched by the E-stop or by running a 3 wire with ground and breaking the tab on the hot side of the receptacle located between the brass screws you can split wire the receptacle to be half hot half switched. I'm a retired electrician with 47 years experience in the trade and would be glad to help with any further wiring or code related questions if desired. The low voltage wiring from the secondary side of your transformers is less of a potential fire or electrocution risk than the 120 volt primary supply side. The older transformers are linear loads and provide a somewhat pure 60 hertz sign wave and is actually a cleaner power supply than the solid state variety. Ironically solid state transformers are non-linear and as such produces a dirty chopped sign wave otherwise known as harmonic load that is the cause of chip degradation. Electronic circuits in and of themselves is one source of non-linear loads. Using TVSS ( transit voltage surge suppression) on the load side of the transformer is the best way to protect the sensitive electronic devices of modern electronic equipment. The best protection against harmonic loads or non-linear transit voltages is to install it on both sides where power is utilized to mitigate transits such as a transit voltage power strip ahead of the transformer and again from each individual positive secondary transformer tap. The use of a TVSS circuit breaker or whole panel surge protector is also encouraged to mitigate potential threats to all of the sensitive electronics in your home against lightning and utility switching. Every TVSS unit only provides minimal clamping voltage with some let through. So the more the merrier. The end goal is to get as close to zero let through as possible with each providing a line of defense so to speak. Transits occurs overtime slowly degrading chips like cancer, causing chip failure at some point. Like I said Ironically non-linear loads in and of themselves are responsible for this phenomena as well and computer Chips are used in almost everything in a modern home. From furnaces to a/c units to even our LED lights not to mention microwaves, TVs, computers and now even our trains. Circuit breakers protect against short circuits or overloads. TVSS surge protects against transit voltages. Harmonics are additional sign waves generated by non-linear loads on to the pure 60 hertz sign wave. So third, forth, and fifth harmonics are third, forth, fifth sign waves which aren't a problem for liner loads such as motors and transformer but wreak havoc on non-linear loads such as sensitive electronics.
You've gotten some great advice here Dave, nothing I can add that's worthwhile.
Except maybe with my warped sense of humor I'd set up the control panel to where it looked like something Doctor Frankenstein might use!
I like it! That would be awesome!
Yeah side by side looks way better I think too
Thanks, agree, especially the more I look at it
I got a couple of breakers that I bought at the train station in mountain lakes NJ. You can really rely on them to give you a good deal on them
I really need to get back to that store
Gave me tons of great ideas! I like the emergency stop button. Here is a thought for you. Have a key lock on your panel. This way no unauthorized running.
I noticed your breakers are 5 AMP. I have 5 AMP on mine, and I do have a non problematic situation that will pop them every time: when I run a string of 12 lit passenger cars behind a double headed set of F7s. That pulls about 8-9 AMPs, which the ZW and Z4000 can deliver in their sleep.
A main input power kill is a good idea. I use a power switch (big rocker style illuminated light when on and light off when open) inline with power cord. Kill s/b on main power not any output out of transformer. The foam is only for layout setup right? A high temp non metallic epoxy will fix the transformer loose coils. Nice you are sharing the electrical up grades you plan for.
I don’t know why a regular switch didn’t occur to me! I think I was just wanting a big red button! Yeah the foam is just to figure it all out
Dave you can use an in line circuit breaker rated for switch duty as your kill switch. Make sure to add the watts for each transformer together and divide by 120 volts to get total Amps. Do not exceed 80% of the breaker amp rating. May I suggest using some heat shrinks on your connections. Your ideas for a simple control panel are well thought out. I enjoy your channel and budget minded approach.
You've set up another interesting project, Dave, but I'm sure it's not something you can't see to the end. I think you have a sense of electrical knowledge more than you give yourself credit for. Just try to not get injured. 'Wisely and slow, for they stumble who run fast' was the monk's advice to Romeo on their way to Juliet's tomb. Romeo didn't take the advice and everything went south. If necessary, latch on to a collector or a website that has or relates experience with this type of panel building. You'll be fine.
Maby you could put the ZW'S recessed inside the foam little bit too might look cool also just a idea whatever you think
Cool idea, thanks
You did it correctly. The volt meter goes in parallel and the amp meter goes in series. Make sure the switch is rated to carry enough volts and amps.
Thanks David. I think everything is rated ok based on my calculations
Big red buttons are good!
That is awesome! I didn’t know that, I’m ordering more. That makes me feel a lot better about my plan. Thanks!
@@dagryffynhobby Glad to help :)
The only thing that comes to mind is ( suggestion) is use larger gauge wire. I’m thinking you’ll loose some amps going through your board . But I’m not neither a electrician.
Yeah, there are calculations for wire size but that’s beyond my skill. I will be using a larger wire though. I have a lot of scrap 14 and 12 gauge wire from when I renovated my house.
Great video! I did the same thing with gauges on my layout. 😄 Don't have a Z4000 transformer so I figured I would add meters. I think the analog meters beat a digital readout any day anyways!
I’m going to have to save this video for when I do a control panel (or IF I do one). Great video Dave!
Thanks! If you have a loop of track, I think you should have at least an ammeter on it. Really helps especially when troubleshooting
Nice planning video, seeing the process work and the logic behind decisions, Zee W ? Oh Zed W 😀
Thanks!
Dave when will you be completing this project?
I wish I knew! Hopefully someday soon I’ll feel like working on it
I am curious about how much current is being used for a dual pull more motor engine with a long consist of cars, will it trip a 5-amp breaker when it starts up or running at full speed puffing smoke.
Me too. If I start tripping breakers, I move to a larger one I guess
Ammeters are even more important than voltmeters. BUT MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN METER WITH AN INTERNAL SHUNT OR YOU NEED TO PROVIDE AN EXTERNAL METER SHUNT FOR YOUR AMMETER!!!!!
How would I know if it has an internal shunt?
@@dagryffynhobby it should be marked. If there’s no marking, assume no shunt. A 50 microvolt shunt across the meter is then needed. This will protect the delicate meter from being subjected to full track current.
It's all witch craft! Don't over think it. KISS. Great video. Be safe.
Thanks! Yeah I need to not get carried away and keep it simple for sure
Over my pay grade😂
You get paid 😂
You are FAR from being a senior. It looks correct to me.
I just feel like a senior. Aches and pains, and those darn kids won’t get off my lawn! Haha
@@dagryffynhobby
Dude, I'm 76 years old. Talk about aches, pains, not to mention multiple doctors appointments. Enjoy what you have. The golden years have a lot of tarnish. I gave up on the lawn ages ago.