Leaving unrealized capital gains out of the tax system will create inequity: Yale's Natasha Sarin
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2024
- Natasha Sarin, Yale Law School and Yale School of Management professor and former Treasury Department official, and Joel Griffith, Heritage Foundation economics research fellow, join 'Squawk Box' to discuss President Biden's calls for tax increases on corporations and the wealthy, what's considered 'fair share', how to best reduce the federal deficit, and more.
Why are professors so unintelligent?
dei hiring, affirmative action ...
@@tomjeff8262 She went to school to get stupid:)
Why are Liberals so unintelligent
Those who don't do (strive to contribute / survive in the real world), teach.
it's textbook dunning-kruger effect to assume that professors are unintelligent.
She's confusing "unfair" with being smart... some families are smarter than others & shouldn't be punished for being successful investors.
Forced equality of outcome is what they want. That means dragging down the smart and successful people. Listen to how angry she is that you can pass on your wealth to your own children.
A plumber should pay 10% of his income to federal taxes, and billionares like Bezos & Musk should pay 0% because they are "smart"?
Basically, poor people should pay a greater percentage of taxes than rich people in your mind.
She isn't confusing anything.
She hates success.
The US needs to raise revenue.
How about stopping giving money to fund foreign wars.
She stinks of communism when she says "fair share".
She’s also does not realize that she is in favor of taking away the easiest path for poor and middle class to build wealth. I have built all of my wealth through investments, as a $200k household income doesn’t cut it in to days society, especially with inflation, and if I had to pay unrealized capital gains, I would not be able to afford to invest logically term for goals like retirement, college, or anything else.
@@jesse_- You will never make enough stocks to be taxed at any rate. She is talking about Bezos, Musks, and Bloomberg, who paid zero in federal income taxes because instead of selling their stock, they get their income through bank loans with their stock as collateral. They basically use tax loopholes to get income from selling their stocks without paying capital gains while reporting it as debt.
we need tax cuts not tax hikes. Cut govt. spending.
You need both
Your solution will only increase the deficit further and kick the can down the road yet again. Have you actually done any economic DD here? We absolutely need both tax hikes and govt spending cuts to really make a dent on debt. Given how divisive our government is and their stubborn unwillingness to work together, I won't see a solution in my lifetime. We need younger politicians that are open to ideas and willing to work across the aisle for a solution, not stubborn old fools that want to hamstring any sort of progress in order to "own the libs/cons".
We need to take a long hard look at our foreign aid spending. $1m to Pakistan for gender studies is the kind of spending that needs to be cut. Spending $800k for grants to study fireflies in NW Oregon, could be removed from the list. Most of these bills contain tons of this kind of BS spending. A top-down housekeeping of how every dollar is spent should be reviewed and approved by voters, none of this big omnibus garbage.
When billionares pay 0% effective tax rate, what more can we cut?
And yet you keep voting blue ? It amazes me that people are convinced to vote with their heart rather than their head .
I'm a Democrat now voting TRUMP 2024
Do unrealized losses give us a tax deduction?
We need more than pathetic $3k.
Yes when you sell. That is why you hold unless it's trash
The thing I don’t like is wealthy people are able to leverage unrealized stocks to loan money
@@minjikim2161 why would that be an issue
@@minjikim2161 Why don't you like that?
“Revenue” no it’s called tax. Not very popular pitching raising taxing while also raising spending. Tired of politicians, spending like drunken sailors.
Oh, you're tired of roads, social security, Medicare, clean air and water etc... What private island are you living on and who's military is protecting it?
Why should billionaires pay 0% effective tax rate?
@@badluck5647 Name one Billionaire that paid "0% effective tax rate"
@@xcqematic1 Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Michael Bloomberg on federal income taxes in 2021.
This is pure insanity - you do not tax unrealized capital gains - that is pure confiscation. If you tax a moving target of price, then you must be willing to be a buyer at the price you are taxing it at to create a transaction.
I think she was talking about the step-up in cost basis when heirs inherit equities from their deceased relatives. It is a tax loophole so heors can then sell or liquidate everything and pay zero or next to zero in capital gains. It's great to help out the little guy or gal who inherited their childhood home and what's left of a 401k, but the otherside is the billions that go untaxed from the wealthiest
Start by taking away the bogus non-profit tax status of the nation's largest Universities starting with Harvard's $50 billion dollar "endowment" aka un-taxed asset management business. Have them pay their fair share and leave us be.
only an academic would think tax on unrealized income would be a good idea
The word "fair" share is very baised and open to interpretation. The taxation policy can not be ambiguous.
We have a spending problem not a revenue problem. We are still spending irresponsibly as if it is 2020 Covie. Increase Cap Gains rate and have everyone actually pay taxes.
Natasha you can gladly pay more if you want, contact the treasury dept
What is your "fair share" of what I have earned?
If you pay taxes on your income and Bezos and Musk pay 0% effective tax rate, you are subsidizing them.
Natasha, if someone works hard and invests wisely, why does he or she have to pay taxes over and over again? Do you know how many people live of the government?
Fr. We get triple taxed. Income tax, property tax, sales tax, capital gains tax, every single thing is taxed and stacks on top of everything. It’s crazy
They never pay taxes on it. They use unrealized gains as collateral to get a bank loan for their income. Since their income is technically debt, they actually get a rebate from the government thanks to generous write offs.
Raising revenue means more taxes, just say it. Stop Spending!!!
you need to talk to republicans about that. as much as they stop spending, they spend like drunken sailors. www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/pubs_2x/public/2020-02/president%20spending.png
so tax a dead man for saving for his family's future?
These people are insane
gifts and estates aren't taxed until they $13.61 million. you know that, don't you?
So, she is talking about unrealized gains tax on the wealthy, who will promptly find a legion of lawyers and tax accountants to get them out of, while middle to upper middle-class families will bear the brunt of her idea. She talks a big game but in reality, she is just another one of those who want to dismantle the middle class, have a bifurcated society of those who have and those who have NOT. She will sit happily in her big budget high paid cushy teaching job and thank herself for being so enlightened. Reality is that she is either utterly clueless or evil to the core.
Stop SPENDING…. Stop spending stop spending
I totally agree, but must it be in that order?
Residential real estate gets reassessed every year, by most states, regardless of the fact that its an entirely unrealized gain.
Inaccurate. Property taxes are notoriously slow to be re-assessed.
FL and NM is every year.
RE taxes are paid to fund utilities such as fire department, local libraries, etc. What would taxes on equities pay for? Better looking stock exchanges? Taking away people's possessions just because they have it is never a good reason. In fact, there is a word for it, it's robbery.
State can tax property - not the feds, thankfully.
this woman: if I am robbed, then the other fellow americans need to be as well.
25% of “real income” over a couple decades is gaining ground?!? Ha!!! Meanwhile inflation has decreased the value of our money by 39% over the past couple decades! What a schmuck!!!
Cnbc goes hard to protect rich people. Micro DOES own back taxes btw that was true
This is pure propaganda for the elite and the people in the comments with Stockholm syndrome are eating it up.
It's funny to watch the corporate talking heads and Joe from the conservative think tank get defensive when Natasha is basically just questioning the logic of Reaganomics.. which has been solidly disproven for decades.
It's very simple. Don't allow people to take out loans against their equities without paying tax on the current profit on that equity and roll back all of the Trump tax cuts on real estate. Then revisit the other taxes that relate to these like the setp up in basis for things that add no value to society. You can't tax unrealized gains because it is too hard to do. But you can get rid of the obscenely beneficial tax programs for those who want to take advantage of asset price changes over time and low interest rates.
Yeah I really don't understand why we've allowed the creation of a system of tax avoidance of this size. It makes no sense for us to let people worth more than a billion to just take out loans for the rest of their lives to skip out on their obligation to society (especially given all the surplus value they've scraped to get to that point)
There's no more entitled class of people in this country than the rich and business community I swear to God.
So I guess no one heard how someone owes 30billion in taxes today and not paying them (I WOULD BE IN JAIL AND YOU TOO)
For sure. If true, regulators should threaten to delist the stock.
Changing taxes means nothing when theres exemptions and deductions for literally everything keeping CPAs very busy. If you simplify the tax code and make it so people cant deduct literally everything youd get more revenue and reduce the bureaucratic cost to account it all.
Fr
Bruh, have you not done taxes in the last few years. Almost EVERYONE does standard deduction because it's simple and will give almost EVERYONE the biggest return.
@@nicholas5396 the only ones who don't do standard deductions are rich people now, should make it pretty simple to close those deductions that have existed for decades in real estate, stocks, etc.
@@TopShot501st concur
Stop Spending.
They need to raise revenue to continue to extract wealth from every hard working person in this country to give to non-productive people. This is the game….extracting $$ from the tax base by rent-seeking bureaucrats.
If you let us treat unrealized losses the same way as gains with the same progressive rate, then it’s a fair game. Not the 3K we get to deduct now
the moment she said "pay their fair share" concerning corporations and the wealthy, I knew she was a card-carrying far left liberal and I stopped caring what she has to say....
The problem with increasing Federal taxes is that its only a drop in the bucket relative to overall gov spending. The trend is pretty clear, even if taxes were to be increased Dramatically, eventually the US gov spending will outstrip that too. We literally can't increase taxes enough to cover the explosive rise in gov spending.
"so-called rich"? with an $800 billion defense budget untouchable, any spending cuts will hit the less well-off.
The top 1% pays over 50% of all US fed income tax while the bottom 50% pays NOTHING, 0 fed income tax. Who needs to pay their "fair" share?
no the us faces a spending problem.
Hard to believe this woman is a Yale employee
BRANDON has made a complete mess out of our country, he's 100% INCOMPETENT
TRUMP 2024
Someone needs an 'unrealized' dismissal notice.
Didnt similar happen in Sweden during the late 1960s ? .... and most of the affluent and wealthy simply picked up and removed themselves from Sweden, never to return.
If you want to figure out how to raise revenue how about stopping all these foreign donations to Ukraine, China and the middle east, cut the size of big government (way too much bureaucracy and red tape any way) and start bringing back jobs and manufacturing to the USA. Why punish working people who are investing for building generational wealth?
Get rid of the income tax, it doesn't work how it was intended. Implement higher sales taxes.
If people are finding “loopholes” to not pay taxes. Shouldn’t you, perhaps, figure out that people don’t want to pay taxes?
Then the question becomes, how do you reduce taxes, which is the will of the people?
I think what she meant to say was
"My parents and I didnt work towards building a future for my kids so who ever did should be punished for the sacrifices they made to become successful"
This is how the wealth tax should be applied. For loans backed by assets like stocks or real estate, they should be taxed at 1.5% for the amount above $1.8M. Loans solely backed by treasuries will be exempt for the wealth tax.
Does Biden family pay income tax on income from the family business? Just asking.
Yes, and they released their tax returns. You can search and view them since you brought it up.
Taxing unrealized gains while offering no compensation for losses is delusional at best. Taxing on gains in a properties/assets value (that is already taxed in many cases (property wise)), will only compound the losses when those properties/assets decrease in value during a market crash/bubble collapse. Don't think for a second that these taxation ideas would not impact the average American Home owner.
Makes no sense, if you own a 500K house and it goes up 10% in a single year ($50K unrealized gain), and you have little to zero cash sitting in your bank, you literally would have to sell your house to pay your taxes. Now you've lost the asset that you owned and you wouldn't even be able to buy a similar house (priced ~$550K) given that if the house was priced at market price when the gain was assessed, which means you would only be able to buy a smaller house. How is this even an "investment" anymore. You buy an asset, it appreciates, you owe taxes, you sell your asset for cash and the proceeds can only afford a smaller asset.
Didn’t know $500k was $1mil. 😂
Red herring.
the government needs to stop sending money to other countries ..
How can people not put two and two together? This woman is looking at the quick fix. Takes more sight to see the solution.
2:11 she did not have the decency to answer his question regarding cutting spending. Incredible, how dumb does she think we are? Lady, you did not answer the question!!!!!!!
Sarin is Soros' niece
I see a mass exodus from stocks before a proposed unrealized gains tax is implemented
dude on the right ommitting the truth that wealth is stored in equity bubbles like CRE, and there is a glaring problem insofar as there are loopholes for transferring/rehypothecating such equity as less taxable than the labor of the lowest 5 deciles.
the US is the paramount economy, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to comprehend that the tax regime is not optimized for sustainable growth. oh, and btw, think about how many sole proprietorships & SMEs drive that job creation & economic growth. the unrealized capital gains conversation isn't actually about that cohort, when you check the data.
The only fair solution is the one that no one is talking about. Go 100% digital currency, no paper! Then introduce an automatic 0.01% dollar transfer tax taken out for any transaction, wheather that transaction is the revenue from the sale of a stock or real estate or a candy bar as well as a loan from a bank or the receipt of a wage. Any time a dollar is transacted. Then we can do away with income taxes and the IRS.
it's not a revenue problem, it's an expense problem.... wants to punish the American Dream
Taxing unrealised gains will completely destroy the economy
they need more money to send to other countries
Big business owing taxes and why? Do you soften the criteria to find every excuse for them not to pay? Microsoft owing 30 Billion as an example. Make them pay up otherwise lower incomes are paying your stupid taxes.
Ohhhh.... now we see why the IRS hired another 97,000 agents.
The second they pass an unrealized capital gains tax everyone will dump their stocks and the market will crash. Then will come the housing market crash when everyone sells their home to avoid paying this tax. You are talking about something worse than the great depression!
Why do I pay 9% of my income to taxes when Bezos and Musk pay near 0%?
She would only demonstrate common sense if she was to say cut government spending, cut the government bureaucracy, and stop over spending.
But no one equates common sense with communism.
The real answer to Joe’s question is NO!!. Whatever taxes, costs and regulations you ask the economy/ corps/ wealthy to pay, those costs are passed on to workers and customers
oh good god, could we not just play the same text from this debate, again?
Regarding the unrealized gains, it's not hard to institute a rule similar to minimum withdrawals for retired people. The wealthy should have to realize gains on the highest valued 10% of their portfolio yearly.
Arbitrary.
@williamerdman4888 Zoo, cotton candy, triangle. I can say random words too, doesn't mean they have a bearing on the argument.
@@nbonasoro Well answer me... where does the 10% come from... seems arbitrary.
@@williamerdman4888 I'm saying the claim that the number is arbitrary is not a sufficient argument to say we shouldn't do it.
Socialism. This is why trump will win.
He's the biggest recipient. Constant beggar.
@@supermutant the gov is, trump is just more able to take back some, "if I am robbed, then others need to get robbed as well, equality", cowards.
I'm now 1,000% voting for TRUMP 2024
@@Myers70 Now?
She is definitely a fair share type . Spending in the last 4 years is out of control.
Why are people from Yale so DUMB. Balance the budget! Stop taking from us to spend MORE.
In 12/31 you have a unrealized balance. Pay taxes on that balance
crazy idea...stop spending money you dont have and pay off debt. Just like the rest of us have to do. Taxation is theft...bottom line
We have been cutting taxes since 1982. Add three Middle East wars( Iraq twice,Afghanistan) the Great Recession, the pandemic, Reagan, Bush and Trump tax cuts and here were are. We need tax levels for million dollar incomes and incomes over $10 million. Taxing unrealized gains is insanity. If you don’t have the money to pay your P&L tax bill then you have to sell your stock which gets taxed as income or capital gains. That kind of system is a stock market killer. Stock market investors fuel the economy. Tax the actual incomes. Democrats support gun control because they keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Can you imagine your primary home appreciates in value and the government swoops in and takes a slice of the appreciation even without you selling. LOL. Can't believe this lady teaches at Yale.
Natasha is exactly correct. The unrealized capital gains mean much more for the ultra-rich and corporates because they are in the order of billions. There are multiple problems with those. First, those gains could be easily passed to their children, which Natasha points out. Second, those are easy source of collaterals for more debts and making more money using leverage. This is what corporates and ultra-rich also do, the VC types.
This has nothing to do with middle-class and upper middle-class. We are talking about the 1% of the country, mainly NYC, LA and Valley folks.
Unrealized capital gains should be taxed as a different class of asset.
After tax has been paid on an unrealized capital gain and the next year the asset goes down in value will there be a tax refund?
If you look at the history of individual income taxes in the US., it started when people agreed to tax the "rich." Same tactic again today. It is never just about the top 1% in the country. It is always about to get a tax started. @@treygarver7791
400,000 in investment income… look at the inflation around you and let that sink in. THAT IS SOON TO BE MIDDLE-UPPER CLASS
Sarin is an acolyte of Yellen. Do the math.
I have accumulated about $1.5m in the stock market, but I only make $100k per year, and with inflation it’s difficult to save, as I have a family. I got there by continuously putting away since my early 20s, so I’m not rich my any means. If they started amazing my unrealized gains, I would not be able to afford the taxes. I would have to pull my money out of the stock market and I would stop investing. I’d probably spend all of my money in time for retirement and just go on public assistance.
2:30 i disagree that banning tik-tok is broadly popular among the american right. maybe the neocons, but i think trump is more of a populist, and banning tik-tok is widely unpopular among the populace.
Wish this administration would just keep their hands off the economy and policies.
Man, I'm with you!
So will they credit unrealized losses?? Stupid people in politics.
No one’s gonna invest in the stock market anymore😂 and how is US a Low tax country ?! It taxes it citizens globally
Apparently the majority of commenters on this thread are expecting to inherit more than the $25 million inheritance tax exclusion and feeling threatened that the tax code may change.
We’ve definitely got a lot of billionaire apologists watching this. I’m not necessarily in love with taxing unrealized gains but if we don’t stop the ultra wealthy from passing down assets without being taxed this is only other option.
Also, their arguments about cutting spending without mentioning that the only way to make a dent is to cut Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Defense is completely disingenuous. If you want to raise the retirement age so that billionaires don’t have to pay more in taxes then just say that.
@@Terpopoly11400,000 in investment income… +1million in any income… look at the inflation around you think long and hard about it. THAT WILL SOON BE UPPER-MIDDLE CLASS INCOME NUMBERS. Don’t deflect attention with the 25 million inheritance threshold, don’t omit the RELEVANT numbers here. I voted Biden. What a STUPID STUPID thing to do. 400,000 threshold on UNREALIZED gains??? INSANITY.
Just make it so billionaires can't just take loans after loans and problem's solved.
I think there shouldn't be a minimum wage but insted, the constitution should have said "all secsessfull employers are to profit share so that man that makes another rich joins him in the harvest. Stealing from ritch to give a bunch of money to the government is just dumb look what they did with the last payment! Lol 😆 🤣
If you have to tax the rich give them the option to employ more people than atlest you give the money a chance to be productive before a buracrat gets ahold of it to hurt the economy more.
She used the word "like" a little too much for me to take her seriously.
THIS IS A PROFESOR ????????????????????????????? HOW CRAZY
that was a laugh
" fAiR sHaRe "
How about getting rid of the step up in basis and then move capital gains back to be taxed as normal income like it was before the 90's. Both of these items help the wealthy not the middle class no need to tax unrealized capital gains.
"Book smart" does NOT equal reality.
Congratulations to her, however she got hired.
But she is NOT smart regarding to economics and how it affects human behavior.
That guy is a liar.
Instead of attacking her, why not really listen to her words rather than just defend
Because what she's saying is ridiculous
Because she is out of her mind. Her proposal is dead upon arrival.
Natasha is pretty… she can dare to date me 😂
university brainwashing
Ah that’s a new one , eat the rich .
Great book by PJ Orourke. I laughed through the entire volume.
print revenue.
I agree with both of them. Tax the rich and get more people to work.
Socialism doesnt work dear child.
They already do get taxed
We need to go back to FDR tax levels. 90% top tax level will transform America to the greatest nation, again.
Ridiculous comment... revenue percentage of GDP was the same asit is today. 90% marginal tax was never paid.
@@williamerdman4888facts. They paid like 40% historically past 80 years. No one paid 90%
@@HateTheIRS Then why do you want a 90% marginal? Also, you didn't sddress my first point.... no mater what the marginal rate, revenue ALWAYS hover at 17% of GDP.
You are dazed. The top marginal tax rate was over 90% for years.
Read a book.
@@williamerdman4888
@@williamerdman4888 I was agreeing with u broski
I don't think it is unfair. Capital gains are not tax until cash in.
It is unfair
are you familiar with the basis step-up on death tax regime?
When America was great, the top tax rate was what 75%? Maybe we do need to make America great again.
People became poorer because of inflation in the last decade period.
Fair share means nobody's income should be more than 20-30X the median income and nobody's wealth should exceed 30 million. Tax everything above that at 100%
Terrible idea.
@HateTheIRS Are there pragmatic difficulties to this? Yes, but they wanted to know what fair share means. These wealthy people get to live insulated lives in their gated communities, send their kids to private schools, they get to afford good food and medical treatment while not living paycheck to paycheck. They insulate themselves away from poverty, crime, and experiencing the day to day realities of the typical person. Frankly, I think wealthy people should legally have to live in the poorest, most crime infested communities and have their kids banned from private schools. As long as they get to live such out of touch lives and lobby to keep the system in their favor, they have too much money and it should be taxed away.
Here's an easy one; If you made the money and paid taxes, it's yours. But you can't pass it down the generational line to someone who didn't earn it. Allow for some transfer of wealth without taxes but not enough where the next generation doesn't have to earn their living.
Warren Buffett lifetime tax rate = less than 1%. This has to be fixed.