It certainly has its advantages, being constructed after the event with reflection. It doesn't quite transport you to the moment in the same way, but it's great for something more evaluative- also much easier to make than the video ones which are very labour intensive!
I like the 8th. ones very much. In particular as you explain your reasonings for your actions/moves and your reactions on developments during the battle. As I plan to revive 8th. for me, I will certainly watch all your reports for a second time. One can learn a lot from them..😃
I-I MISSED YOU, ya old Rocker-Punk on a bike. Get on over here and tell us a story of war and carnage. Make it good or face punishment for leaving us in the dust for so long!
Ah, He's returned to us! Just in time for spring. An excellent battle report as always, interesting to see just how different a OW army looks than in 8th ed. Cheers from the states!
Great video. One rules issue, the marauder horsemen can't have the chaos sorcerer on chaos steed in their unit while they are skirmishers. This is because the chaos steed is classified as heavy cavalry. See "Characters Joining Skirmishers" pg. 185. Tried linking to the rule but I think youtube won't let me.
It's about time you came back to keep us updated on the latest bout of mayhem, evilness and catastrophe!!!!! The more we learn from you, the better to crush our foes!!!!!! Wonderful introduction!!!!
@@DrBlaxill Four sets of rolling 1's! Aaargh! I would have thrown the dice out the window. What are the stats for that? LOL! Your composure even in after action reporting is commendable Sir. 👍
Heya, in the 1.1 faq on page 4, after an overrun move you can do a second test to attempt to reform at the end of the overrun move. So not every single one of your overruns would have been as devastating! Thanks for the content :-)
@@DrBlaxill I think Exiles may be the best (worst) Army of Infamy. A couple of units of Peg Knights with 2 Barons supporting. One Peg Knights have Vanguard for 10" move. 29" charge range on the first turn with 360. One Baron with Killing Blow and Monster Slayer is a real threat to most Dragon Lords, and the high mobility makes it relatively easy to focus on enemy wizards. With a very small number of deployments a 2/3 chance of going 1st. A lot of armies would say 'ouch'.
Hello Doctor. Im afraid i don't understand the failed charge at 27 minutes. Is there a terrain obstacle there other than the forrest? There may be some parallax effect from the camera angle but It looks like the foresaken could wheel 3 inches and then still be 2" away from their target, making a roll of 1 still succeed.... Or is that basically what happened and the final angle was still more than 2" away? (Taking into account -1mv and roll 2 dice take the worst). In terms of speed, I find a spare base tray onto the table or a 6x2" measuring widget placed against the charging units front allows me to quickly assess the different charge lines afforded by greater wheels in order to decide if a charge is declarable (in range) or what would be the roll required before dice get rolled and optimism starts interfering with folks interpretation of the situation.... I.e. decide with your opponent what dice roll would be required to succeed before you roll any. That's my 2 cents
I may have slightly exagerated, they might be 3' away. I believe I rolled a '1' on the charge, so with -1 move the forsaken can charge 5 inches. We calculated that this was not enough for me to wheel what I needed to to change the angle, then charge forwards with the rest of the move. It was close, but we decided they couldn't. We probably spent 5 minutes measuring it. In 8th ed it would have simply been an automatic maximised charge, over in 5 seconds. But here, lots of anally retentive measuring involving radial estimations come into play. To me, its just fiddly, irritating, time consuming, and doesn't add anything to the game. If you work out all of these rolls in advance (as you often have to for impetuous/frenzy) one ends up spending so long on hyperthetical working out that the game really stalls. To the high-octane 2.5 hours 2500 point 8th ed player this seems extremely ponderous.
Yes, a 'reflection' video should come soon. I think after I've been to and run my tournament. Should have well over 50 games under my belt by then too.
Your tournament sounds fantastic! 2000 points, legacy armies and 100 players! Could be the largest in the world so far. Not entertaining the 1999 points Vs 2000 points could bring you some dragon spam. I suppose a house rule re line hammer may come into play? Have you got enough terrain?!!
We've houseruled linehammer at 10 wide. Part of me didn't want to do this, because by doing so we're reducing perversion but making infantry even worse. It's a very good venue, the best one I've been to here in the UK, so we won't have to turn up with two vans of terrain!
Ah, nice video. Still easily the best battle reports on youtube. Concise, no "hm"s and "um"s. Love it! Still don't know what I think of Old World. Will definitively need some houserules, I think. As did 8th. Something like "Max 25% points spent on a single model, a character ridding something doesn't add their wounds (you take the higher one) and infantery can max attacke from two more models per side than the opponent and maybe attacking from two ranks/casualties aren't discounted".
Hi Dr., love your Vids and also your style. Fantastic Battlereport! While i agree with almost every point you make i for myself really enjoy the new rules. Here some things to put into perspective. 1) Mark of Korn (befor rather bad) can make Chaos Knights and, to a lesser degee, also Warriors quit good. 2) I play a DP with Mark of Tzeentch LvL 4 and the Ruby Ring and find him quite strong. 3) LOS and the new Magic system while being very different to 8ed can be used very tactical what i enjoy quit a bit. Underlining some of your points. 1) Yes, new charge rules are super crap. Bring back 8eds! 2) Give ground should also allow reform, or no reform for FBIGO. 3) Dragons... stupid. 4) Overrun when not charged.... get rid of it! One more point. Ruby Ring ist to powerfull for the points. Should cost 50 at least. Keep up the good work!
I more or less agree with all those points. I think the LOS is fair enough ALTHOUGH I would prefer a 'height' based system like Kings of War or 9th Age. I think an ogre should be able to see over a Dwarf, for example. Kings of War has infantry height 1, cav height 2, monstrous infantry/cav height 3, monster height 4.
@@DrBlaxill Wont argue with that. Its a good idea. One thing, now that i got your attention. I play the Dragon Ogers single with the gnarled Hide upgrade. It makes the 2up Armor. Im having a great time with them.
@@pabloklemann3471 Alas, gnarled hide is infantry only! DOgre is Cav. Also DOgre shartak can't have the charmed shield either as they can't take a mundane shield. I was also having a lot of fun with single 2+ shartak (via the sheild route) before someone correctly pointed out the error of my way!
@@DrBlaxill Noooo... youre right. Missed that. Damn it. Got to rewrite my list. Thx for the clarification. Hope for more Battlereports! Greatings from germany
27:27 If you don't roll enough to wheel, you can still succeed on a charge so long as you can make any contact. In this case, you'd wheel 1'' or 2'', then go straight forward to still make contact and then get the free closing the door. The contact would be more limited than if you roll high though.
Love this Dr! Missed your content. An observation on the game: your mounted wizard can’t join marauder horsemen when they are in skirmish formation, as they are not the same unit sub type. This is under the “characters joining skirmishers” section of the skirmisher rules. I THINK you have them in skirmish formation…
So I see. What an irritating and fiddly rule. Both wizard and horsemen are both skirmishing cav but not allowed to join each other due to this heavy/light cav distinction when, were they not skirmishing, this would be no problem. And yet the wizard can still be right next to them , move with them, and not be shot as within 3' of them if he is the closest target- and yet not officially 'join' them.
On the morale check to restrain pursuit following combat... the only thing I can imagine is that while, in game terms, the defeated unit has been eliminated, there are a few fleeing remnants that the victorious unit wants to run down. It’s a common concept in historical war games, where the models are actually meant to represent multiple individuals. So even if all the models are removed, conceptually, there could be broken individuals fleeing. That said, not sure I’d apply this to TOW.
Cool rep! Good job. Couple things: 1. Chaos sorcerer cannot join skirmish marauders. They need to be the same unit type (heavy inf/cav can’t join reg inf/cav in skirmish). 2. After overrun, unit can attempt reform as per FAQ. So Ogre & forsaken could have tried to reform after they kissed over wreckage of chariot. 3. Warhounds are Loner, can’t join units unless char is also Loner, no dog walking. ;)
You are allowed a professional dog walker again though. I see my 1980s Chaos Hound Handler can come out to play for the first time in I don't know how many editions. I mean he appears to actually make the unit worse, but he's still going to get his day in the sun.
I am not certain level 4 is necessary in all lists. The Slann were average to start with and the latest FAQ significantly nerfed them. I know two lizardmen players who have won minor tournaments with lizards and neither took a Slann.
maybe the "unsteady mechanic" was you not using stubborn on the Forsaken :) Great video! your rolls were all over the place! BTW your dragon ogres look really amazing on those larger bases!!
As you will see, neither had my opponent! In short, I hate it. It seems such a faff for so little, especially given they have barely released any new model lines which can benefit from the extra space afforded by a larger base. Also, I think it makes the game worse by crowding the table (which also makes infantry even worse as they are most affected by the change). Finally, I think most models - which were designed for smaller bases - look worse on larger ones (others have a different view on that). Almost nobody in my gaming circles has rebased or even uses the converters and if it is the same for both players, then I guess there's little incentive. However, tournementing will force us to. I am often excited by new modeling projects which rules changes may pre-empt, but rebasing or converters is nothing more than a chore. TLDR: Groan. However, it is not *that* important in the scheme of things.
This interesting, I know this is competitive game and I'm not judging but it's a million miles away from the type of games we'd play for fun. Anyone rocking up with darts or less than four ranks in an infantry would be mercilessly mocked. But the ingenious way you break the games mechanics and optimise the most powerful builds is fascinating. I thought chosen knights and chaos warriors are really good in this edition, but we are simply playing different games. Do you ever play classic bricks of your favourite models?
Indeed- one of the most interesting thing about wargaming is the way it is played. I started playing properly about 6 years ago largely as a fluff player who liked 80s models and retro painting. But then, Fantasy was dead and players dwindling. To get games at all meant going to tournaments and I fell in with the 8th ed competitive crowd. Once I learned this it became more and more interesting and I started to finish amongst the top players in events. That was 8th ed of course- which for various reasons had a streamlined and red-teamed ruleset much more suited to competitive play than TOW. The problem is that once one has learned to play in this way, it's hard to go back! And as you say, it's quite conducive to youtube content. Chosen knights are good, yes (due to drilled!). Chaos warriors...not so much, because infantry is pretty weak across the board. Most of my models have got at least some play as I play TOW, 8th, 9th age, and older editions. But I do think the ultimate wargamer should ideally be able to play super comeptitive or entirely fluff depending on what his opponent wants. So I see beauty in simply playing my favourite models- ideally in a larger game so I can have more of them on the table!
Yes! The local priest has also come knocking on my door recently. He's had a spike in the congregation with me out on the streets and has encouraged me to carry on
@@DrBlaxill - He just can't appreciate your content. The many personalities of the ToW community are what will keep this game fresh and vibrant for years to come.
You glorious grumpy dude! You can't even realize how much of a fresh breeze it is to ear some playfuls rants during a batrep. 😊 That's an auto subscribe here, and I hope to see more fights like this on your channel.
That's interesting! I daresay you won't be the last. In 8th ed, Fantasy was a mainline high budget GW game, not the boutique specialist one of today. So everything is much more lavish and bespoke. Almost everything in OW (art, models) is reused.
Excellent to see a batrep with RAW as opposed to some that are already comping the basic rules. I think it’s important to play the game, as written, in a competitive fashion, to reveal the shortcomings. Yes, I’m already adjusting things in friendly casual games. And no, I’m probably never going to be playing in a tournament. But it’s clear that TOW could stand a little tightening up to improve the competitive environment.
I think about 7-8 changes would do it from a gamesplaying perspective. From a game balance perspective, that would be a harder question, but people can always invent comp systems.
That was a fun battle report and included some lovely competitive moaning too, +1 for that Dr Luke. GW are great at making almost good rules but always seem to have some clunky weirdness that spoils our fun, this time it's the crazy math wheeling rule when charging. Do you think people will start house ruling this out to speed the game up?
Have you considered writing up some of your preferred houserules to improve the game and circulating them? I broadly agree with many of your critiques, but it also feels like this is an important time to be reminding the community of how important homebrew has always been to the old WHFB ethos. (I'm currently working on an alternative magic system, aiming at being a bit more tactically deep and truer to the spirit of the lore than what the game currently has without just going back to 8th.)
I'm liking the MSU approach you have in this list. I actually had mind to try an MSU WoC list in 8th ed using Forsaken, dogs, and dragon ogres similar to this list you have here. I never for once thought it would be competitive, but I thought it could be interesting at least. I do hope this return means we will see more reports from you in the Olde World.
While I'm the first one to want to play the game in a gentlemanly and narrative fashion, I'm all for a competitive batrep that pushes the boundaries of the ruleset and squeezes the most uselfuness from your units. And as always, your vintage army is a bliss to watch. Yet I wouldn't want closest to closest like 8th and I prefer blocks to be clunky so you have to pilot them like ships: anticipating the next movement. It's part of the game, and at this point I don't want it to be faster and simpler, really. Shame I'm on the other side of the channel, or I'd be delighted to join the tournament, sounds like a good bunch of fun. Keep it up with the Old World content! And cheers
Thanks! Aside from the ambiguities of the charge rule itself, I wouldn't mind the blocks being clunky if they a.) good or b.) were in a game where other things were not so fast. The trouble is that most other things are as fast as they were in 8th ed and the blocks are now super slow- unless you have teleport magic of course! I think if both sides take blocks they feel meaningful, but less so otherwise. Fully agree about wanting slower pace and complexity. I was all for that, although I perhaps got more than what I wished for- the game is much more like 6th ed than 8th. That is to a lot of player's tastes, but not really mine. Still, I can't complain too much in the grand scheme of things- it still feels like the real thing!
@@DrBlaxill You got me there, I'm a 6th ed man and this feels like home. And I agree with the speed and clunkyness of the blocks as opposed to other formations. It's a field in which I think they took half measures when they could've gone all in. Take for instance the "no takebacks" rule (ignored as it is), which is like the "no premeasuring" of up to 7th ed... but not quite. I can't complain either, it's good to have new blood in the hobby once again.
I liked how you bring it to the point. TOW is not for Infantery (as it is garbage in this ruleset ). I am an Infantry man, as these have been the bread and butter of any army , in the past and will be in the future. I do like Cavalry ( Tanks ) Arty and Monsters, of course, but not as the main battle lines. Overall, TOW is not my cup of tea. Too much monsters, Heroes and heavy cav. Think I go back to 8th. or WAP
Dear Dr, really nice report ;-), despite my profound love for dogs, mines usually never rally because they cannot benefit from the commanding presence of the leaders ... also those bloody marauder horsemen cannot be joined by a sorcerer when they are in a skirmish formation ... such a pity 😢
I always enjoy seeing competitive battle reports over "casual" ones. Unless it's a narrative game I don't know why people would rather want to watch bad players playing bad armies.
Surely i love what you do, am also deep into the oldhammer thing. Just got my hands in a horned dragon and will paint it soon to add to my chaos army 👍 Watching this video, am a bit critical regarding the « count as », i am not a real fan of that (chaos warriors). I do understand why, but i kind of stick to the wysiwyg spirit, i first play my collection as it is, and not looking at twitsting the thing for more competitive play. It stops from looking at an army list first and the minis you have rather than the opposite. I know 8th ed and 9age player don’t really understand or share this game spirit, just for your thoughts 😎
I think the premium on WYSIWYG was eroded by competitive play. Because to be truly WYSIWYG (inc at the level of equipment) especially if it takes you years to collect and paint an army, is very difficult. However, for much of the history of the game a much stricter norm of it was common than became the case in and after 8th. On one level it is neccesary though for some themes to be consistent. I have an 80s chaos army, but Forsaken did not exist until some decade and a half later. So I have to either proxy or convert if I want to run with the theme. The Horned Dragon is fantastic- and very good for a rider (although I prefer dragons withouit them in general, as I feel dragons are intelligent and idiosyncratic creatures who would not appreciate being ridden!)
They have the owl head mutation which means they can see everything! All single character infantry and cav (including monstrous inf/cav) get 360 vision as they count as skirmishers when on their own. It's very silly.
Found this fascinating if a little depressing in at least some ways. Rather disgusting (though beautiful) armies, but interesting to see how they're used. Your commentary on the application of some of the rules is as entertaining and insightful as ever. Think on balance I prefer the movement, magic (as was) and shooting phases to the flying and teleporting phase and the magic missile phase. Hope to see more soon regardless and you never know, perhaps we'll see some ranks from one of your opponents... Think I might enjoy seeing your Bretonnians more than the competitive version of your Chaos army now even though at heart I like Chaos a great deal more. Definitely intrigued to see what you make of the Bretonnian Lance and its interaction with 'Linehammer', base-to-base contact etc as I haven't quite got my head round it.
In 8th I enjoyed playing with Bretonnia more. Chaos always felt slight reduced (and too easy at points). Certainly the 'teleport phase' and the 'magic missile phase' are not the most beautiful of things. The magic isn't at all interesting in OW unfortunately- the spells are so similar and the cast/dispel mechanic is tedious and repetitive. 8th ed is the better game from a competitive perspective without question. Perhaps in time there will be a split in my gaming- 8th and 9th for competitive play, OW for casual. That might be ideal. Have you played OW yourself yet?
@@DrBlaxill Sadly not (other than pushing a few things around on the dining table) as there's still a lot of painting for me and my daughter to get through to have a presentable army and in any case there are family reasons why I won't be able to 'go out to play' for a while in any case. Aiming for late summer realistically though there is also the 'finding someone and somewhere to play' issue. I have made a couple of enquiries though and it sounds like it should be possible locally, fingers crossed.
Just to point out, GW itself wrote that in competitive play there should be the rule of 3 so 4 units of dogs would not be allowed there and I think going with the rule of 3 is a good way. Nevertheless a good video as usual Dr. Punk. Even thou hatred so Khorne Forsaken are good when in combat, Slaanesh Forsaken due to having swiftstride and thus being very fast as infantry much easier end up there and also charging.
Yep, Slaanesh are also good. I like khorne in a list with Steed of Shadows in it, to overcome their slowness. Rule of 3 is good I agree. AFAIK that is usually for special and rare, but it could also be applied to core too. It isn't so bad for Warriors of course because maurader horse are also a very good option for this role, but less economical for points.
@@DrBlaxill In my opinion, at least I think so, the rule of three also applies to core units as well to, with purpose, not allow things like chaos dogs core only (what would be 17 units on 2000 pts) or just spamming tons of units of 5 dwarf quarrellers and so on for instance. Yes, chaos dogs are simply an OP unit, way too cheap for what they do. 😉
Have you tried Warmachine, good doctor? Much less silly, unpredictable randomness or rules loopholes/ambiguities, much more strategy, tools and options to build a perfect turn out of. Such a game feels so much more up your alley than "roll dice for everything and abuse loopholes" design of GW games.
A unit of 750 gnoblar fighters with throwing weapons is 1500 points. level 4 slaughtermaster with 50 points magic items. And a iron blaster cannon is 2000 points. hehe
Just here to rant, I'm starting to resent how this game and many other GW games seem to play completely different at a competitive level than they do as they are marketed (for lack of a better term). Like I just played a beastmen list where it was just waves and waves of a bunch of single entity screening/counter charging units such as single dragon ogres, slannesh spawn and razorgors. Like all these f****** dogs just need impetuous. It's so stupid to have them just March up within an inch of you and stare at you hoping to get charged or block vision. I brought a fun fluffy orcs and goblins list so there was definitely a dichotomy in our interest but it still felt like there was literally nothing I could do other than become extremely lucky. My opponent could have literally brought 500 points or so less and it wouldn't have changed anything. End rant, thank you and nice video!!
It can be extremely hard to charge with infantry in OW if your opponent knows how to use chaff and is prepared to run them in marching columns. Plus you are incentivised to go wide for the attacks, which makes charging harder still. Competitively, the only reason I I run WoC infantry at all is because I have Steed of Shadows.
@@DrBlaxill the kicker is that, in my case, my opponent wasn't necessarily a great player who knows the game that well (and he himself would say the same), but the list is straight up just a copy of something he found on the web. We have a TK player (who hadn't played since like 4 ed.) Who played his first few games with good old classic list and got severely punished for it(lots of bad rolling too) He then came back with a meta list from the Internet and is doing amazingly now. Sure, there are many variables at play but I think the game needs a fair bit of grooming and internal balancing within each individual army(that I'm worried it might not receive) until I have to straight up ask an opponent "how optimized is your list". It feels like too many units fall into the categories of either"OP" or "Dogshit" 😂
I don't think you can have your exalted sorc join a unit of marauders b/c unit type is different. Ext. Sorc are heavy infantry and with a steed makes them heavy Cav. Marauder Horsemen are Light Cav. I hope I'm wrong b/c I've wanted to do this too.
You're right. She can ride next to them as a skirmisher but not 'join' them. Irritating really (also makes Mark of Tzeentch on them pretty pointless as there are no wizard choices who can actually join them)
Look. I don't care. I'm loving how powerful dragons are. i can actually use them and they can survive getting shot. maybe they need to be more expensive. Or maybe... they should reinstate 25% Lords and 25% Heroes. 8th edition had a natural balance in that regard. you didn't see big monster lords in less then 2500, and rarely even then due to the tyranny of Cannons.
Certainly true that monster and rider became pretty much extinct from 8th ed. In part due to the silly 'hit both' rule (we changed that in our 8th ed event). I suppose I can't begrudge their owners some fun for a while...
You remind me o that wonderful London loquacious rogue around Soho's colourful past, still sadly missed. Sebastian Horsley. I assume you live in Fulham dough.
@@mickbrilliantfootballeroft327 A legend indeed. He's the disciple of Lord Buckethead, who also ran for office in the '90s. The things you learn on the Dr Blaxill channel!
Mr Luke, i think you are playing movement a bit wrong but cant be sure tbh, open order units get quick turn ONLY if they haven't marched, only fast cavalry can do it after march I think your forsaken on the left did it anyways after marchflying with steed of shadows I wouldn't have noticed if you were faster with video uploads, you force me to watch the same one multiple times while i wait for more!
Yes, very likely in one of the cases that was illegal. A shame one cannot march and do the spin as not being able to do that eliminates much meaningful applies difference between close and open order- there are not many situations I can think of where a unit could not accomplish the same with a march and wheel that it could with a normal move plus open order spin. Unless the initial move is backwards or sideways. They'll be another BR within a week :-)
@@DrBlaxill well, steed of shadows is OP as it is, 24 movement with free turn is kinda too much, don't you think 😅, i'm using it too with my Dark elves, it's an essential part of the army Btw, have you played against wood elves? Sisters of the thorn are BEYOND broken For 140 points you get a 4+ ward save fast cavalry with a bound spell of your choice cast on a +2 and they can fire and flee, fire while marching with poisoned attacks hitting on a 3+ 90% of the time, oh and you have no restriction to put a character in either And i was under the impression that my dark elf warlocks were good... My opponent brought 2 units with 2 spellsingers (one on each unit but also leaving and rejoining a lot) and they were an absolute nightmare, they dominate flanks I mean, in theory, you can (and should) max special points with 6-7 unit sisters since they have no restrictions and i'm pretty sure the norm in competitive is gonna be nothing less than 4 units of them until gw makes them 0-2 In overall, i think old world has done a bad job at balancing, removing or not adding restrictions that give lots of opportunities for extra cheesy plays We are gonna see a looot more of these and my poor dark elves are gonna suffer more 😢
@@Jimmyjazz1414 No, I've not played Wood Elves yet- they are amongst the army I am least looking forward to facing given the skirmish fire and flee and move after rally nonsense- not to mention the general absurdity of skirmishers. I have seen some competitive wood elf lists however and they fill me with terror- not just because of how good they are but because of how depressing they will be for many players to face. I'm not really even sure they have tried to balance the game. I don't think the competitive audience was much in mind here- the animating attitude seems much more analogous to the late '90s view of self-comping between gentlemen. I think this is my evolving view of the game- the rules were written mainly to please 6th ed people in how it feels to play, but it has also fused that with a 4th/5th ed attitude to game balance .
@@DrBlaxill in my latest experience skirmish was the least of my problems, as a matter of fact my 12 shades got killed to a man round 1 from magic missiles, goodbye assassin 😅, NEVER again scouting against wood elves, and his deepwood scouts was the only unit i dealt with easily The problem was the insane mobility they have combined with the magic missiles, poison arrows and javelins coming from all sides I spent 3 rounds chasing his cavalry block that had freaking reserve move with a dragon and when i finally cornered them he just got the characters out... If a dragon struggles so much to engage what chance is there for infantry I mean our friend group is antagonistic (we want to win, i think its pointless to play against someone that doesnt care to win) but we are all gentlemen, we have some home rules like 10max file, 4 max chaff, we don't follow the lame terrain rules and we are never lame about vision or movement I think wood elves are just too good, they can force every single army to corner camp or be destroyed, maybe except tomb kings i don't know, haven't played against them and i probably never will, noone of my friends has an army or plans to make one When you play you are gonna lose ofc but it's kinda demoralizing to get destroyed and not even have an opportunity to blame your luck or something I agree, feels like 6th but at the same time it seems like the rulemakers never had gaming experience past casual games so they couldn't apply the restrictions that would make this game balanced enough to be competitive I have no experience fron editions before 6th, but i bet these were the ones that made 6th so solid, hopefully the new edition (when it comes out) will be the same We should treat this one as a beta/casual one, preseason gaming 😉 Oh, and pick up the pace with these battle reports sir!
IMHO this is a way better format for battle reports than watching people roll dice. Much more in depth, and also very well executed. Thanks!
It certainly has its advantages, being constructed after the event with reflection. It doesn't quite transport you to the moment in the same way, but it's great for something more evaluative- also much easier to make than the video ones which are very labour intensive!
2 hour long videos of people rolling dice 💀
Fantastic to see you back. I had been looking forward to this for a long time. Genuinely one of the few YT channels I would watch every day.
Your narration of this battle report is very entertaining! So many people who share battle reports are very dull. You should do more of these.
They'll be more :-) I've done many 8th ed ones, looking forward to doing some regular TOW ones.
I like the 8th. ones very much. In particular as you explain your reasonings for your actions/moves and your reactions on developments during the battle. As I plan to revive 8th. for me, I will certainly watch all your reports for a second time. One can learn a lot from them..😃
I-I MISSED YOU, ya old Rocker-Punk on a bike. Get on over here and tell us a story of war and carnage. Make it good or face punishment for leaving us in the dust for so long!
Absolutely love your classic models with awesome paint jobs.
They are the all time great model line, chaos '85-91.
The most enjoyable RUclips video I've seen in months!
The level of detail of how everything works is especially welcome.
THE MASTER SPEAKS
Ah, He's returned to us! Just in time for spring. An excellent battle report as always, interesting to see just how different a OW army looks than in 8th ed. Cheers from the states!
Great video. One rules issue, the marauder horsemen can't have the chaos sorcerer on chaos steed in their unit while they are skirmishers. This is because the chaos steed is classified as heavy cavalry. See "Characters Joining Skirmishers" pg. 185. Tried linking to the rule but I think youtube won't let me.
It's about time you came back to keep us updated on the latest bout of mayhem, evilness and catastrophe!!!!! The more we learn from you, the better to crush our foes!!!!!! Wonderful introduction!!!!
crushing one's foes is the order of the day!
@@DrBlaxill Four sets of rolling 1's! Aaargh! I would have thrown the dice out the window. What are the stats for that? LOL! Your composure even in after action reporting is commendable Sir. 👍
@@DrBlaxill I'll drink to that one!
I was getting worried about ya doc - great to see another video from you.
Never intends to claim a rank bonus 😂
❤
That intro left me feeling more drilled than my Dawi Longbeards! 😳
Great group of folks on your channel, Doc. Always fun to read the comments!
Heya, in the 1.1 faq on page 4, after an overrun move you can do a second test to attempt to reform at the end of the overrun move. So not every single one of your overruns would have been as devastating!
Thanks for the content :-)
You're right. I would have had a second chance.
@@DrBlaxill also worth noting that I think Veteran would let you reroll restrain/reform.
@@doubleskulls it would indeed. The more I look at that rule the better it looks (Exiles!)
@@DrBlaxill I think Exiles may be the best (worst) Army of Infamy. A couple of units of Peg Knights with 2 Barons supporting. One Peg Knights have Vanguard for 10" move. 29" charge range on the first turn with 360. One Baron with Killing Blow and Monster Slayer is a real threat to most Dragon Lords, and the high mobility makes it relatively easy to focus on enemy wizards. With a very small number of deployments a 2/3 chance of going 1st. A lot of armies would say 'ouch'.
@@doubleskulls The exiles are good. I think you have to simply deploy with a 6.5 inch DZ when facing them until the pegs are all down.
Hello Doctor.
Im afraid i don't understand the failed charge at 27 minutes. Is there a terrain obstacle there other than the forrest? There may be some parallax effect from the camera angle but It looks like the foresaken could wheel 3 inches and then still be 2" away from their target, making a roll of 1 still succeed.... Or is that basically what happened and the final angle was still more than 2" away? (Taking into account -1mv and roll 2 dice take the worst).
In terms of speed, I find a spare base tray onto the table or a 6x2" measuring widget placed against the charging units front allows me to quickly assess the different charge lines afforded by greater wheels in order to decide if a charge is declarable (in range) or what would be the roll required before dice get rolled and optimism starts interfering with folks interpretation of the situation.... I.e. decide with your opponent what dice roll would be required to succeed before you roll any.
That's my 2 cents
I may have slightly exagerated, they might be 3' away. I believe I rolled a '1' on the charge, so with -1 move the forsaken can charge 5 inches. We calculated that this was not enough for me to wheel what I needed to to change the angle, then charge forwards with the rest of the move. It was close, but we decided they couldn't.
We probably spent 5 minutes measuring it. In 8th ed it would have simply been an automatic maximised charge, over in 5 seconds. But here, lots of anally retentive measuring involving radial estimations come into play. To me, its just fiddly, irritating, time consuming, and doesn't add anything to the game. If you work out all of these rolls in advance (as you often have to for impetuous/frenzy) one ends up spending so long on hyperthetical working out that the game really stalls. To the high-octane 2.5 hours 2500 point 8th ed player this seems extremely ponderous.
Would be awesome to see a video from you about your indepth thoughts about old world, where it is, where it could go and how you enjoy or hate it
Yes, a 'reflection' video should come soon. I think after I've been to and run my tournament. Should have well over 50 games under my belt by then too.
More chaos reports! I love your analyze
Great battle report and narration!
I think an overrun also counts as a pursuit move, so you can test to reform at the end.
You're right- I could have done. Which would mean two such tests in one turn when the troops (due to them hitting each other) had barely moved.
ARRRRRRRRRGGGHHH. Always love your stuff!
Great battle report, I’m still busy painting so haven’t played a game yet but it appears very random with unexpected things occurring, I like it
Your tournament sounds fantastic! 2000 points, legacy armies and 100 players! Could be the largest in the world so far. Not entertaining the 1999 points Vs 2000 points could bring you some dragon spam. I suppose a house rule re line hammer may come into play? Have you got enough terrain?!!
We've houseruled linehammer at 10 wide. Part of me didn't want to do this, because by doing so we're reducing perversion but making infantry even worse.
It's a very good venue, the best one I've been to here in the UK, so we won't have to turn up with two vans of terrain!
Wonderful batrep! Love the format! You've got me jazzed for my first TOW GT this weekend.
Ah, nice video. Still easily the best battle reports on youtube. Concise, no "hm"s and "um"s. Love it! Still don't know what I think of Old World. Will definitively need some houserules, I think. As did 8th. Something like "Max 25% points spent on a single model, a character ridding something doesn't add their wounds (you take the higher one) and infantery can max attacke from two more models per side than the opponent and maybe attacking from two ranks/casualties aren't discounted".
Hi Dr., love your Vids and also your style. Fantastic Battlereport! While i agree with almost every point you make i for myself really enjoy the new rules.
Here some things to put into perspective.
1) Mark of Korn (befor rather bad) can make Chaos Knights and, to a lesser degee, also Warriors quit good.
2) I play a DP with Mark of Tzeentch LvL 4 and the Ruby Ring and find him quite strong.
3) LOS and the new Magic system while being very different to 8ed can be used very tactical what i enjoy quit a bit.
Underlining some of your points.
1) Yes, new charge rules are super crap. Bring back 8eds!
2) Give ground should also allow reform, or no reform for FBIGO.
3) Dragons... stupid.
4) Overrun when not charged.... get rid of it!
One more point.
Ruby Ring ist to powerfull for the points. Should cost 50 at least.
Keep up the good work!
I more or less agree with all those points. I think the LOS is fair enough ALTHOUGH I would prefer a 'height' based system like Kings of War or 9th Age. I think an ogre should be able to see over a Dwarf, for example. Kings of War has infantry height 1, cav height 2, monstrous infantry/cav height 3, monster height 4.
@@DrBlaxill Wont argue with that. Its a good idea.
One thing, now that i got your attention.
I play the Dragon Ogers single with the gnarled Hide upgrade. It makes the 2up Armor. Im having a great time with them.
@@pabloklemann3471 Alas, gnarled hide is infantry only! DOgre is Cav.
Also DOgre shartak can't have the charmed shield either as they can't take a mundane shield.
I was also having a lot of fun with single 2+ shartak (via the sheild route) before someone correctly pointed out the error of my way!
@@DrBlaxill Noooo... youre right. Missed that. Damn it. Got to rewrite my list.
Thx for the clarification.
Hope for more Battlereports! Greatings from germany
Solid! Thanks for the share!!
27:27 If you don't roll enough to wheel, you can still succeed on a charge so long as you can make any contact. In this case, you'd wheel 1'' or 2'', then go straight forward to still make contact and then get the free closing the door. The contact would be more limited than if you roll high though.
More content Doc... Excellent battle report.
Love this Dr! Missed your content. An observation on the game: your mounted wizard can’t join marauder horsemen when they are in skirmish formation, as they are not the same unit sub type. This is under the “characters joining skirmishers” section of the skirmisher rules. I THINK you have them in skirmish formation…
So I see. What an irritating and fiddly rule. Both wizard and horsemen are both skirmishing cav but not allowed to join each other due to this heavy/light cav distinction when, were they not skirmishing, this would be no problem. And yet the wizard can still be right next to them , move with them, and not be shot as within 3' of them if he is the closest target- and yet not officially 'join' them.
On the morale check to restrain pursuit following combat... the only thing I can imagine is that while, in game terms, the defeated unit has been eliminated, there are a few fleeing remnants that the victorious unit wants to run down. It’s a common concept in historical war games, where the models are actually meant to represent multiple individuals. So even if all the models are removed, conceptually, there could be broken individuals fleeing. That said, not sure I’d apply this to TOW.
havent even watched video yet but i liked it. been waiting too long for more Blaxill content
Excellent battle report, thank you very much 😊.
Stunning models and a great game .
Linehammer worked for me thank you.
oh yes!
Cool rep! Good job.
Couple things:
1. Chaos sorcerer cannot join skirmish marauders. They need to be the same unit type (heavy inf/cav can’t join reg inf/cav in skirmish).
2. After overrun, unit can attempt reform as per FAQ. So Ogre & forsaken could have tried to reform after they kissed over wreckage of chariot.
3. Warhounds are Loner, can’t join units unless char is also Loner, no dog walking. ;)
You are allowed a professional dog walker again though. I see my 1980s Chaos Hound Handler can come out to play for the first time in I don't know how many editions. I mean he appears to actually make the unit worse, but he's still going to get his day in the sun.
Are u sure you can attempt to reform after overrun?
If true, my witch elves just became sooo much better
Excellent report!
I am not certain level 4 is necessary in all lists. The Slann were average to start with and the latest FAQ significantly nerfed them. I know two lizardmen players who have won minor tournaments with lizards and neither took a Slann.
maybe the "unsteady mechanic" was you not using stubborn on the Forsaken :) Great video! your rolls were all over the place! BTW your dragon ogres look really amazing on those larger bases!!
Great vid! More battle reports please!
FOR THE LADY!
While watching your fantastic BR for the second time I realised that you haven't converted the base sizes. What's your current take on this task?
As you will see, neither had my opponent! In short, I hate it. It seems such a faff for so little, especially given they have barely released any new model lines which can benefit from the extra space afforded by a larger base. Also, I think it makes the game worse by crowding the table (which also makes infantry even worse as they are most affected by the change). Finally, I think most models - which were designed for smaller bases - look worse on larger ones (others have a different view on that). Almost nobody in my gaming circles has rebased or even uses the converters and if it is the same for both players, then I guess there's little incentive. However, tournementing will force us to. I am often excited by new modeling projects which rules changes may pre-empt, but rebasing or converters is nothing more than a chore.
TLDR: Groan. However, it is not *that* important in the scheme of things.
@@DrBlaxill Thank you very much for answering. Appreciate your time spent.
Been missin yes Good Sir!
the miscasts were a warning from khorne be careful not to cross him again
Going to keep this video untill Sunday’s paiting session. I was starting to miss you too much!
We miss you!!!
The Doctor is in!!
19.40 - Oil that door, Sir!
This interesting, I know this is competitive game and I'm not judging but it's a million miles away from the type of games we'd play for fun. Anyone rocking up with darts or less than four ranks in an infantry would be mercilessly mocked. But the ingenious way you break the games mechanics and optimise the most powerful builds is fascinating.
I thought chosen knights and chaos warriors are really good in this edition, but we are simply playing different games. Do you ever play classic bricks of your favourite models?
Indeed- one of the most interesting thing about wargaming is the way it is played. I started playing properly about 6 years ago largely as a fluff player who liked 80s models and retro painting. But then, Fantasy was dead and players dwindling. To get games at all meant going to tournaments and I fell in with the 8th ed competitive crowd. Once I learned this it became more and more interesting and I started to finish amongst the top players in events. That was 8th ed of course- which for various reasons had a streamlined and red-teamed ruleset much more suited to competitive play than TOW. The problem is that once one has learned to play in this way, it's hard to go back! And as you say, it's quite conducive to youtube content.
Chosen knights are good, yes (due to drilled!). Chaos warriors...not so much, because infantry is pretty weak across the board.
Most of my models have got at least some play as I play TOW, 8th, 9th age, and older editions. But I do think the ultimate wargamer should ideally be able to play super comeptitive or entirely fluff depending on what his opponent wants. So I see beauty in simply playing my favourite models- ideally in a larger game so I can have more of them on the table!
If I become a parent, this is the youtube channel I will show my children to scare them away from trying drugs.
Yes! The local priest has also come knocking on my door recently. He's had a spike in the congregation with me out on the streets and has encouraged me to carry on
@@DrBlaxill - He just can't appreciate your content. The many personalities of the ToW community are what will keep this game fresh and vibrant for years to come.
You glorious grumpy dude! You can't even realize how much of a fresh breeze it is to ear some playfuls rants during a batrep. 😊
That's an auto subscribe here, and I hope to see more fights like this on your channel.
Glad you like the cut of my jib, punk! The rant is IN!
How'd you get the turn 1 flank with the picket lines?
Bro love your content. Got into fantasy from ToW and found myself buyin 8th rules lol.
That's interesting! I daresay you won't be the last. In 8th ed, Fantasy was a mainline high budget GW game, not the boutique specialist one of today. So everything is much more lavish and bespoke. Almost everything in OW (art, models) is reused.
You could also check "the ninth age" - a game based on 8th edition WHF rules after GW destroyed 8th edition. Rules are for free.
@@richardpagel6959 I agree. It's a superb game, although for the connoisseur.
Excellent to see a batrep with RAW as opposed to some that are already comping the basic rules. I think it’s important to play the game, as written, in a competitive fashion, to reveal the shortcomings. Yes, I’m already adjusting things in friendly casual games. And no, I’m probably never going to be playing in a tournament. But it’s clear that TOW could stand a little tightening up to improve the competitive environment.
I think about 7-8 changes would do it from a gamesplaying perspective. From a game balance perspective, that would be a harder question, but people can always invent comp systems.
Enjoyed it, thanks for posting.
Totally agree!
Dr Luke! What are the designs on your banners references to? I know Welcome To The Machine is a Pink Floyd song.
ALRIGHT, PUNKS!!!
That was a fun battle report and included some lovely competitive moaning too, +1 for that Dr Luke.
GW are great at making almost good rules but always seem to have some clunky weirdness that spoils our fun, this time it's the crazy math wheeling rule when charging. Do you think people will start house ruling this out to speed the game up?
Have you considered writing up some of your preferred houserules to improve the game and circulating them? I broadly agree with many of your critiques, but it also feels like this is an important time to be reminding the community of how important homebrew has always been to the old WHFB ethos. (I'm currently working on an alternative magic system, aiming at being a bit more tactically deep and truer to the spirit of the lore than what the game currently has without just going back to 8th.)
Enjoyed your narration greatly, being able to play this in the background while working. consider me subscribed!
I wonder what the work is? Something heavy and destructive I hope punk!
I'm liking the MSU approach you have in this list. I actually had mind to try an MSU WoC list in 8th ed using Forsaken, dogs, and dragon ogres similar to this list you have here. I never for once thought it would be competitive, but I thought it could be interesting at least. I do hope this return means we will see more reports from you in the Olde World.
Well, that sort of list will work in OW much better than it would have done in 8th. Forsaken and DOgres are now strong!
While I'm the first one to want to play the game in a gentlemanly and narrative fashion, I'm all for a competitive batrep that pushes the boundaries of the ruleset and squeezes the most uselfuness from your units. And as always, your vintage army is a bliss to watch.
Yet I wouldn't want closest to closest like 8th and I prefer blocks to be clunky so you have to pilot them like ships: anticipating the next movement. It's part of the game, and at this point I don't want it to be faster and simpler, really.
Shame I'm on the other side of the channel, or I'd be delighted to join the tournament, sounds like a good bunch of fun.
Keep it up with the Old World content! And cheers
Thanks! Aside from the ambiguities of the charge rule itself, I wouldn't mind the blocks being clunky if they a.) good or b.) were in a game where other things were not so fast. The trouble is that most other things are as fast as they were in 8th ed and the blocks are now super slow- unless you have teleport magic of course! I think if both sides take blocks they feel meaningful, but less so otherwise.
Fully agree about wanting slower pace and complexity. I was all for that, although I perhaps got more than what I wished for- the game is much more like 6th ed than 8th. That is to a lot of player's tastes, but not really mine. Still, I can't complain too much in the grand scheme of things- it still feels like the real thing!
@@DrBlaxill You got me there, I'm a 6th ed man and this feels like home.
And I agree with the speed and clunkyness of the blocks as opposed to other formations. It's a field in which I think they took half measures when they could've gone all in. Take for instance the "no takebacks" rule (ignored as it is), which is like the "no premeasuring" of up to 7th ed... but not quite.
I can't complain either, it's good to have new blood in the hobby once again.
Some good old fashioned revenge.
What kind of biscuits are they punk?
I liked how you bring it to the point. TOW is not for Infantery (as it is garbage in this ruleset ). I am an Infantry man, as these have been the bread and butter of any army , in the past and will be in the future. I do like Cavalry ( Tanks ) Arty and Monsters, of course, but not as the main battle lines. Overall, TOW is not my cup of tea. Too much monsters, Heroes and heavy cav. Think I go back to 8th. or WAP
I know the feeling. Ranked up infantry are integral to the game, and they are just so so bad in TOW.
Dear Dr, really nice report ;-), despite my profound love for dogs, mines usually never rally because they cannot benefit from the commanding presence of the leaders ... also those bloody marauder horsemen cannot be joined by a sorcerer when they are in a skirmish formation ... such a pity 😢
The latter rule is very annoying!
The former one is fair enough- although rallying cry still works on them!
Steed of Shadows seems
Ludicrously good.
There is a question for you. Can you dispell a bound spell using wizardly dispell?
Yes, I don't see why not.
Missed your videos! Was starting to get a bit worried about you…😅 Great battle report and thoughts on the game!
Great!
Solid stuff
I always enjoy seeing competitive battle reports over "casual" ones. Unless it's a narrative game I don't know why people would rather want to watch bad players playing bad armies.
Just need some badly rendered 2D arrows added as overlays and I'll be in heaven. This was great!
Great report mate. Don't you role your random attacks on the Forsaken per model rather than one roll for all?
Thinking about it you would roll per model. Which means the deviation is likely to be smaller.
Are you off to Derby next weekend?
@@stephentoal4705 alas no, I didn't get a ticket!
@@DrBlaxill that's a shame... I'll have to do it for the WOC then.
@@stephentoal4705 Good luck!
Surely i love what you do, am also deep into the oldhammer thing. Just got my hands in a horned dragon and will paint it soon to add to my chaos army 👍
Watching this video, am a bit critical regarding the « count as », i am not a real fan of that (chaos warriors). I do understand why, but i kind of stick to the wysiwyg spirit, i first play my collection as it is, and not looking at twitsting the thing for more competitive play.
It stops from looking at an army list first and the minis you have rather than the opposite.
I know 8th ed and 9age player don’t really understand or share this game spirit, just for your thoughts 😎
I think the premium on WYSIWYG was eroded by competitive play. Because to be truly WYSIWYG (inc at the level of equipment) especially if it takes you years to collect and paint an army, is very difficult. However, for much of the history of the game a much stricter norm of it was common than became the case in and after 8th.
On one level it is neccesary though for some themes to be consistent. I have an 80s chaos army, but Forsaken did not exist until some decade and a half later. So I have to either proxy or convert if I want to run with the theme.
The Horned Dragon is fantastic- and very good for a rider (although I prefer dragons withouit them in general, as I feel dragons are intelligent and idiosyncratic creatures who would not appreciate being ridden!)
Please tell me why those Chaos characters get 360 los?
They have the owl head mutation which means they can see everything!
All single character infantry and cav (including monstrous inf/cav) get 360 vision as they count as skirmishers when on their own. It's very silly.
Im rooting for more Larry and Chairman!
Found this fascinating if a little depressing in at least some ways. Rather disgusting (though beautiful) armies, but interesting to see how they're used. Your commentary on the application of some of the rules is as entertaining and insightful as ever. Think on balance I prefer the movement, magic (as was) and shooting phases to the flying and teleporting phase and the magic missile phase. Hope to see more soon regardless and you never know, perhaps we'll see some ranks from one of your opponents...
Think I might enjoy seeing your Bretonnians more than the competitive version of your Chaos army now even though at heart I like Chaos a great deal more. Definitely intrigued to see what you make of the Bretonnian Lance and its interaction with 'Linehammer', base-to-base contact etc as I haven't quite got my head round it.
In 8th I enjoyed playing with Bretonnia more. Chaos always felt slight reduced (and too easy at points). Certainly the 'teleport phase' and the 'magic missile phase' are not the most beautiful of things. The magic isn't at all interesting in OW unfortunately- the spells are so similar and the cast/dispel mechanic is tedious and repetitive. 8th ed is the better game from a competitive perspective without question. Perhaps in time there will be a split in my gaming- 8th and 9th for competitive play, OW for casual. That might be ideal.
Have you played OW yourself yet?
@@DrBlaxill Sadly not (other than pushing a few things around on the dining table) as there's still a lot of painting for me and my daughter to get through to have a presentable army and in any case there are family reasons why I won't be able to 'go out to play' for a while in any case. Aiming for late summer realistically though there is also the 'finding someone and somewhere to play' issue. I have made a couple of enquiries though and it sounds like it should be possible locally, fingers crossed.
Rock on!
Are you sure about the reform after pursuing? I believe you can only.do that if you pursue and cut your enemies down or wipe them out and overrun
You have to catch them, yes
Just to point out, GW itself wrote that in competitive play there should be the rule of 3 so 4 units of dogs would not be allowed there and I think going with the rule of 3 is a good way.
Nevertheless a good video as usual Dr. Punk.
Even thou hatred so Khorne Forsaken are good when in combat, Slaanesh Forsaken due to having swiftstride and thus being very fast as infantry much easier end up there and also charging.
Yep, Slaanesh are also good. I like khorne in a list with Steed of Shadows in it, to overcome their slowness.
Rule of 3 is good I agree. AFAIK that is usually for special and rare, but it could also be applied to core too. It isn't so bad for Warriors of course because maurader horse are also a very good option for this role, but less economical for points.
@@DrBlaxill In my opinion, at least I think so, the rule of three also applies to core units as well to, with purpose, not allow things like chaos dogs core only (what would be 17 units on 2000 pts) or just spamming tons of units of 5 dwarf quarrellers and so on for instance.
Yes, chaos dogs are simply an OP unit, way too cheap for what they do. 😉
How do you say advantageous again
‘Rank and flank’ lol
THAT WAS ENTERTAINING PUNKS
What an intro.
Good report dr
Are all competitive scenes dominated by dirty boxing power gaming?
When is the next one?
Loathesome rank bonuses be damned!
I've forgotten they exist personally
Have you tried Warmachine, good doctor? Much less silly, unpredictable randomness or rules loopholes/ambiguities, much more strategy, tools and options to build a perfect turn out of. Such a game feels so much more up your alley than "roll dice for everything and abuse loopholes" design of GW games.
I never have, though I'm very tempted. I have played Kings of War though, which also puts a different experience on the table.
A unit of 750 gnoblar fighters with throwing weapons is 1500 points. level 4 slaughtermaster with 50 points magic items. And a iron blaster cannon is 2000 points. hehe
yep. Getting back to the 900 skavenslaves build of 8th ed!
@@DrBlaxill Thanks for the battle report. Was nice to see some tactical play, rather then boring 3h core hammer.
Just here to rant, I'm starting to resent how this game and many other GW games seem to play completely different at a competitive level than they do as they are marketed (for lack of a better term). Like I just played a beastmen list where it was just waves and waves of a bunch of single entity screening/counter charging units such as single dragon ogres, slannesh spawn and razorgors. Like all these f****** dogs just need impetuous. It's so stupid to have them just March up within an inch of you and stare at you hoping to get charged or block vision. I brought a fun fluffy orcs and goblins list so there was definitely a dichotomy in our interest but it still felt like there was literally nothing I could do other than become extremely lucky. My opponent could have literally brought 500 points or so less and it wouldn't have changed anything. End rant, thank you and nice video!!
It can be extremely hard to charge with infantry in OW if your opponent knows how to use chaff and is prepared to run them in marching columns. Plus you are incentivised to go wide for the attacks, which makes charging harder still. Competitively, the only reason I I run WoC infantry at all is because I have Steed of Shadows.
@@DrBlaxill the kicker is that, in my case, my opponent wasn't necessarily a great player who knows the game that well (and he himself would say the same), but the list is straight up just a copy of something he found on the web. We have a TK player (who hadn't played since like 4 ed.) Who played his first few games with good old classic list and got severely punished for it(lots of bad rolling too) He then came back with a meta list from the Internet and is doing amazingly now. Sure, there are many variables at play but I think the game needs a fair bit of grooming and internal balancing within each individual army(that I'm worried it might not receive) until I have to straight up ask an opponent "how optimized is your list". It feels like too many units fall into the categories of either"OP" or "Dogshit" 😂
I don't think you can have your exalted sorc join a unit of marauders b/c unit type is different. Ext. Sorc are heavy infantry and with a steed makes them heavy Cav. Marauder Horsemen are Light Cav. I hope I'm wrong b/c I've wanted to do this too.
You're right. She can ride next to them as a skirmisher but not 'join' them. Irritating really (also makes Mark of Tzeentch on them pretty pointless as there are no wizard choices who can actually join them)
Look. I don't care. I'm loving how powerful dragons are. i can actually use them and they can survive getting shot. maybe they need to be more expensive. Or maybe... they should reinstate 25% Lords and 25% Heroes. 8th edition had a natural balance in that regard. you didn't see big monster lords in less then 2500, and rarely even then due to the tyranny of Cannons.
Certainly true that monster and rider became pretty much extinct from 8th ed. In part due to the silly 'hit both' rule (we changed that in our 8th ed event). I suppose I can't begrudge their owners some fun for a while...
Spawn wouldn't be able to fly with steed of shadows if it already moved in the compulsory.
That's right. They just got even more useless- a pity :-(
Lol well pleased!!!
The demon prince is crap. And the chimera. But their models are soooo good.
You remind me o that wonderful London loquacious rogue around Soho's colourful past, still sadly missed. Sebastian Horsley. I assume you live in Fulham dough.
Maybe my obituary in the Chap magazine will similarly call me an Anarcho-dandyist. I'm not too far off, in Victoria!
@@DrBlaxill Well I wasn't far out. x
I'd vote for you either way. You is Count Bin Face. Yes. xx
@@mickbrilliantfootballeroft327 A legend indeed. He's the disciple of Lord Buckethead, who also ran for office in the '90s. The things you learn on the Dr Blaxill channel!
@@DrBlaxill John Harvey. Hope if you vote. It is for him. x
Overrun and reform makes you think twice about blocking with trash I guess?
Also sad to see only one “rank and file” unit
The Old World really is a fantastic skirmish game eh?
This one is by no means the worst on that score- wait till you see an army with skirmish core!
Mr Luke, i think you are playing movement a bit wrong but cant be sure tbh, open order units get quick turn ONLY if they haven't marched, only fast cavalry can do it after march
I think your forsaken on the left did it anyways after marchflying with steed of shadows
I wouldn't have noticed if you were faster with video uploads, you force me to watch the same one multiple times while i wait for more!
Yes, very likely in one of the cases that was illegal. A shame one cannot march and do the spin as not being able to do that eliminates much meaningful applies difference between close and open order- there are not many situations I can think of where a unit could not accomplish the same with a march and wheel that it could with a normal move plus open order spin. Unless the initial move is backwards or sideways.
They'll be another BR within a week :-)
@@DrBlaxill well, steed of shadows is OP as it is, 24 movement with free turn is kinda too much, don't you think 😅, i'm using it too with my Dark elves, it's an essential part of the army
Btw, have you played against wood elves?
Sisters of the thorn are BEYOND broken
For 140 points you get a 4+ ward save fast cavalry with a bound spell of your choice cast on a +2 and they can fire and flee, fire while marching with poisoned attacks hitting on a 3+ 90% of the time, oh and you have no restriction to put a character in either
And i was under the impression that my dark elf warlocks were good...
My opponent brought 2 units with 2 spellsingers (one on each unit but also leaving and rejoining a lot) and they were an absolute nightmare, they dominate flanks
I mean, in theory, you can (and should) max special points with 6-7 unit sisters since they have no restrictions and i'm pretty sure the norm in competitive is gonna be nothing less than 4 units of them until gw makes them 0-2
In overall, i think old world has done a bad job at balancing, removing or not adding restrictions that give lots of opportunities for extra cheesy plays
We are gonna see a looot more of these and my poor dark elves are gonna suffer more 😢
@@Jimmyjazz1414 No, I've not played Wood Elves yet- they are amongst the army I am least looking forward to facing given the skirmish fire and flee and move after rally nonsense- not to mention the general absurdity of skirmishers. I have seen some competitive wood elf lists however and they fill me with terror- not just because of how good they are but because of how depressing they will be for many players to face.
I'm not really even sure they have tried to balance the game. I don't think the competitive audience was much in mind here- the animating attitude seems much more analogous to the late '90s view of self-comping between gentlemen. I think this is my evolving view of the game- the rules were written mainly to please 6th ed people in how it feels to play, but it has also fused that with a 4th/5th ed attitude to game balance
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@@DrBlaxill in my latest experience skirmish was the least of my problems, as a matter of fact my 12 shades got killed to a man round 1 from magic missiles, goodbye assassin 😅, NEVER again scouting against wood elves, and his deepwood scouts was the only unit i dealt with easily
The problem was the insane mobility they have combined with the magic missiles, poison arrows and javelins coming from all sides
I spent 3 rounds chasing his cavalry block that had freaking reserve move with a dragon and when i finally cornered them he just got the characters out...
If a dragon struggles so much to engage what chance is there for infantry
I mean our friend group is antagonistic (we want to win, i think its pointless to play against someone that doesnt care to win) but we are all gentlemen, we have some home rules like 10max file, 4 max chaff, we don't follow the lame terrain rules and we are never lame about vision or movement
I think wood elves are just too good, they can force every single army to corner camp or be destroyed, maybe except tomb kings i don't know, haven't played against them and i probably never will, noone of my friends has an army or plans to make one
When you play you are gonna lose ofc but it's kinda demoralizing to get destroyed and not even have an opportunity to blame your luck or something
I agree, feels like 6th but at the same time it seems like the rulemakers never had gaming experience past casual games so they couldn't apply the restrictions that would make this game balanced enough to be competitive
I have no experience fron editions before 6th, but i bet these were the ones that made 6th so solid, hopefully the new edition (when it comes out) will be the same
We should treat this one as a beta/casual one, preseason gaming 😉
Oh, and pick up the pace with these battle reports sir!