I suspect what you see as a "control loop" is the intentional, periodic, quick removal of current used in "mode 1". This enables updates to the internal resistance measurement, which compares load vs unload voltages for the calculations. Otherwise, an update to the internal resistance would not be possible. I'm sure the integration of total capacity excludes the duration of the IR measurement event, so that is why you find the end result is accurate. If you start the procedure from the voltage setting, this invokes "mode 2" which excludes the IR measurement, which is appropriate for power banks.
Thank you. Great video. We see many chargers and testers on the web. I am very please with your discovery. However,. One area or void on lithium 18650 cell area is the measure of internal resistance. These values are critical when determining battery health. We a great deal on capacity. Your insight and assistance on how to accurately measure internal resistance in of a cell.
I ran into a problem where this TEC-06 would not do a test for certain power banks. As soon as the test would start, it would stop. I noticed the TEC-06 is impatient about power banks dropping to 0V for a brief moment as the PB switches on, and has a brief voltage drop-out. To solve this problem I soldered a 1000uF 6.3V capacitor to two pogo pins, which I use to temporarily sustain the input voltage while the PB momentarily goes through the 0V state. To do so, I push the capacitor down against the top of the I+ and I- screw terminals for the few seconds during test start and then take it off. So this "starting capacitor" is just a workaround for certain powerbanks. I also noticed the device will get stuck after a test and not reset to zero. I'm thinking I need to make a convenient switch on the USB input so I don't wear out the input jack. to cycle the power.
It looks like they are using the data pins on the USB connector for UART serial data instead of USB traffic, that explains why windows gets very upset.
The huge voltage difference reason is (in my opinion) the tester momentarily turns off the load for measuring the voltage, while your voltage meter measuring the voltage under load.
Have a TEC-06 and and EBD-M05 and after calibrating the last one using the original software (I came poorly calibrated), the TEC-06 still kick a** of teh EBD-M05. Specially when measuring at high currents, the EBD shows bigger deviations while the TEC proves realiable.
Could you show how to calibrate this unit? I got one that is not very accurate. Push in the button when giving it power to go into calibration, I dont know what to next.
U4 is classic 431 IC. Like TL431. It seems they ran the data lines from USB directly under the micro on the PCB layout?? I found an STC datasheet where they describe... something where these lines from USB connector are essentially connected directly to RXD and TXD pins of the micro, so perhaps they abuse USB connector for plain TTL serial, and they probably have a magic cable to go along with it, where they have an adapter IC. EDIT: STC supplies a Y-cable that goes to USB power and to proper RS232 socket. It's an active cable that has something like MAX232 in it.
Well the TL431 is more or less a precision reference (depending on the grade and version you buy). As another viewer pointed out (and gave a link) the micro is simply spitting out serial data from it´s TxD pin. You need a separate USB-Serial converter to tap the TxD (at pin 3 of the micro I think) to feed it then into the software. Anyway this is just a gimmick to log the data if you want to. But you can´t send control commands to remote-control this thing. So for me this feature is of no great use (and I want/need a standalone device that monitors the milliamphours without a PC running all the time) I have already got and tested another battery charge tester with just the reverse: Not useable as standalone device but only (and fully) software controllable. It gave excellent results concerning useability, accuracy and the GUI/functionality of the software. Will present that in a few weeks together with the other 2 testers I am still waiting for.
I just found out a problem. The battery internal resistance check, at the beginning of the measurement, cause a very high current (just for ms, but much higher than the regular discharge current), this can trigger a protection circuit at the battery. This will also occur, when starting the measurement with "mode 2" (which is for two wire).
Yes, occurred, not with a battery PCB, but with a cheap USB powerbank which I wan't to test (which is limited to 2A max current and shut down, when exceeded). I took some time, to find out what's happen here. My workaround was to put a supercap parallel, which was also tricky, because charging the cap causes also high drain. It's probably better to add a resistance in series and bypass after the test. Maybe other versions of the TEC-06 don't have the problem. For my understanding it's a bug, the IR should not be determined when starting in the 2-wire mode. If I have time next week, I'll try to do a more detailed measurement regarding the IR test.
Interesting. I think I remember I noticed something similar but didn´t care much about because it gave no problems with my test-setup. Anyway it looks like it´s a software bug.
Hi, thanks a lot for this Video! I also ordered this little thing to measure my Sony NP-FW50 batteries (typically used for DSLR/DSLM cameras). But I´m wondering why I can discharge the 3rd party batteries (e.g. baxxstar) with a much higher current than the genuine Sony batteries? If I go higher than 100mA the Sony batteries turn off. But if I´m recording a 4k Video tha batterie lasts roughly 1 hour which corresponds to 1000mA, 10 times more! Any idea why?
2 questions; 1. Will this test/report maH capacity in 3.7 Lion laptop batt packs? 2. Can you please test a Genuine SKYRC Imax B6 balance charger?? Great stuff thanks!!
No. Because I am only searching for a versatile discharge capacity meter that you can set down to very low discharge currents. Does the IMax B6 do that (e.g. to be "better" that the TEC-06: 10mA discharge current, 0.8V cutoff-voltage)?
What cut-off voltage must one set for testing (discharging) AA NiMh batteries? Now I use the lowest possible settings on the TEC-06 which are 50 mA and cut-off voltage of 0.9V. Is this bad?
No, that is quite OK. The discharge current should of course be chosen according to the device that you use your NiMH batteries. When they get worn, the intternal resistance increases. Therefore the cutoff-voltage is reached quicker at high discharge currents even if there is still some remaining charge. So the capacity is heavily dependent on the discharge current and the wearout of the battery.
@@KainkaLabs Thank you for your quick answer! I set de discharge current low because I use the batteries only for low-draining devices (like wireless keyboard and mouse).
I think this is an error in the Ebay description. I have seen non-existing features claimed in many Ebay product-descriptions from Chineses vendors because they copy descriptions from each other without understanding what they really sell. The used micro cannot handle USB.
KainkaLabs you might be right, the description is at least confusing if not even contradictory. Though the one I found shows even a discharge curve (found on aliexpress)
Yes I know (we both found probably the same ad) The curve is from a software from ZKE as far as I remember which I already downloaded in an English version for some of the still to be delivered battery charge-testers. These curves are used as showpiece in more than one battery charge-tester which actually have no real USB functionality.
There is certainly a Software-enabled version of this unit. The following link is to a blog that reverse engineers the device's serial communications: syonyk.blogspot.com.au/2018/01/reverse-engineering-tec-06-serial.html - and he says he codes a Linux software of some form to grab the data. Note that the standard version can be hacked to add a remote serial port, and there are a number of links on that webpage for more information.
If you mean "... to set the discharge current" instead of "...to discharge the battery current": You can set the discharge current without the load being connected.
No, because it´s a discharger, not a charger. So it "needs" to have neither CV nor CC. CC-discharge up to a final cutoff-voltage is just the usual way to measure battery capacity.
Roger is correct. Only charging requires a CC-CV specific charge curve so as to not overcharge the Li-Ion cell. It is good to have a settable constant discharge current so as not to exceed the particular battery's max discharge rating.
Yes. You are right. But at that moment I had already found out that the "4-wire measurent" is in fact a "3-wire measurement" and both leads from the "-" pole of the battery are connected at the screw-terminals. So here it has no effect on the measurement resp. the error in the voltage measurement under load. I will explain everything about "true" and "false" 4-wire measurement in a forthcoming video and demonstrate in detail what is wrong with the way they tried to implement 4-wire connections with this devie.
The follow-up video explains that: ruclips.net/video/3FEMPlNA0EQ/видео.html The accuracy improved by a factor of 2. The remaining error is due to the offset of the LM324. A precision quad rail-in/rail-out opamp would probably bring the remaining error down to zero.
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Thanks for sharing your test results. Your watch is intriguing : 10:59
You deserve much more subscriptions!
Thanks for your thoroughness.
I suspect what you see as a "control loop" is the intentional, periodic, quick removal of current used in "mode 1". This enables updates to the internal resistance measurement, which compares load vs unload voltages for the calculations. Otherwise, an update to the internal resistance would not be possible.
I'm sure the integration of total capacity excludes the duration of the IR measurement event, so that is why you find the end result is accurate.
If you start the procedure from the voltage setting, this invokes "mode 2" which excludes the IR measurement, which is appropriate for power banks.
Is there an update to this device now 4 years ago? Thumbs up.
Thank you. Great video. We see many chargers and testers on the web. I am very please with your discovery. However,. One area or void on lithium 18650 cell area is the measure of internal resistance. These values are critical when determining battery health. We a great deal on capacity. Your insight and assistance on how to accurately measure internal resistance in of a cell.
What replaces the TEC 06 that measures the internal resistance of a 18650?
I ran into a problem where this TEC-06 would not do a test for certain power banks. As soon as the test would start, it would stop. I noticed the TEC-06 is impatient about power banks dropping to 0V for a brief moment as the PB switches on, and has a brief voltage drop-out. To solve this problem I soldered a 1000uF 6.3V capacitor to two pogo pins, which I use to temporarily sustain the input voltage while the PB momentarily goes through the 0V state. To do so, I push the capacitor down against the top of the I+ and I- screw terminals for the few seconds during test start and then take it off. So this "starting capacitor" is just a workaround for certain powerbanks.
I also noticed the device will get stuck after a test and not reset to zero. I'm thinking I need to make a convenient switch on the USB input so I don't wear out the input jack. to cycle the power.
Fantastic Channel. Very technical. Hello from Brazil. Is this still the more accurated low price in 2021…?
It looks like they are using the data pins on the USB connector for UART serial data instead of USB traffic, that explains why windows gets very upset.
The huge voltage difference reason is (in my opinion) the tester momentarily turns off the load for measuring the voltage, while your voltage meter measuring the voltage under load.
Have a TEC-06 and and EBD-M05 and after calibrating the last one using the original software (I came poorly calibrated), the TEC-06 still kick a** of teh EBD-M05. Specially when measuring at high currents, the EBD shows bigger deviations while the TEC proves realiable.
Hello Roger, does the cut off voltage work to the correctly set cut off ?
yes
Could you show how to calibrate this unit? I got one that is not very accurate. Push in the button when giving it power to go into calibration, I dont know what to next.
U4 is classic 431 IC. Like TL431.
It seems they ran the data lines from USB directly under the micro on the PCB layout?? I found an STC datasheet where they describe... something where these lines from USB connector are essentially connected directly to RXD and TXD pins of the micro, so perhaps they abuse USB connector for plain TTL serial, and they probably have a magic cable to go along with it, where they have an adapter IC.
EDIT: STC supplies a Y-cable that goes to USB power and to proper RS232 socket. It's an active cable that has something like MAX232 in it.
Well the TL431 is more or less a precision reference (depending on the grade and version you buy).
As another viewer pointed out (and gave a link) the micro is simply spitting out serial data from it´s TxD pin.
You need a separate USB-Serial converter to tap the TxD (at pin 3 of the micro I think) to feed it then into the software.
Anyway this is just a gimmick to log the data if you want to.
But you can´t send control commands to remote-control this thing.
So for me this feature is of no great use (and I want/need a standalone device that monitors the milliamphours without a PC running all the time)
I have already got and tested another battery charge tester with just the reverse:
Not useable as standalone device but only (and fully) software controllable.
It gave excellent results concerning useability, accuracy and the GUI/functionality of the software.
Will present that in a few weeks together with the other 2 testers I am still waiting for.
I just found out a problem. The battery internal resistance check, at the beginning of the measurement, cause a very high current (just for ms, but much higher than the regular discharge current), this can trigger a protection circuit at the battery. This will also occur, when starting the measurement with "mode 2" (which is for two wire).
Has that (protection circuit triggers) occured in real life? I doubt that this gives a problem.
Yes, occurred, not with a battery PCB, but with a cheap USB powerbank which I wan't to test (which is limited to 2A max current and shut down, when exceeded). I took some time, to find out what's happen here. My workaround was to put a supercap parallel, which was also tricky, because charging the cap causes also high drain. It's probably better to add a resistance in series and bypass after the test. Maybe other versions of the TEC-06 don't have the problem. For my understanding it's a bug, the IR should not be determined when starting in the 2-wire mode.
If I have time next week, I'll try to do a more detailed measurement regarding the IR test.
Interesting. I think I remember I noticed something similar but didn´t care much about because it gave no problems with my test-setup.
Anyway it looks like it´s a software bug.
Hi, thanks a lot for this Video! I also ordered this little thing to measure my Sony NP-FW50 batteries (typically used for DSLR/DSLM cameras). But I´m wondering why I can discharge the 3rd party batteries (e.g. baxxstar) with a much higher current than the genuine Sony batteries? If I go higher than 100mA the Sony batteries turn off. But if I´m recording a 4k Video tha batterie lasts roughly 1 hour which corresponds to 1000mA, 10 times more! Any idea why?
2 questions; 1. Will this test/report maH capacity in 3.7 Lion laptop batt packs? 2. Can you please test a Genuine SKYRC Imax B6 balance charger?? Great stuff thanks!!
1. Yes
2. No
That's not 5 mV steps. It's 50 mV steps/increments.
Hey, did you compared it to an Genuine IMax B6 ? Regards
No.
Because I am only searching for a versatile discharge capacity meter that you can set down to very low discharge currents.
Does the IMax B6 do that (e.g. to be "better" that the TEC-06: 10mA discharge current, 0.8V cutoff-voltage)?
That + a BUNCH more stuff, well worth the $32 price tag
What cut-off voltage must one set for testing (discharging) AA NiMh batteries? Now I use the lowest possible settings on the TEC-06 which are 50 mA and cut-off voltage of 0.9V. Is this bad?
No, that is quite OK. The discharge current should of course be chosen according to the device that you use your NiMH batteries. When they get worn, the intternal resistance increases. Therefore the cutoff-voltage is reached quicker at high discharge currents even if there is still some remaining charge. So the capacity is heavily dependent on the discharge current and the wearout of the battery.
@@KainkaLabs Thank you for your quick answer! I set de discharge current low because I use the batteries only for low-draining devices (like wireless keyboard and mouse).
There seems to be a version which can be connected to a PC as well
I think this is an error in the Ebay description. I have seen non-existing features claimed in many Ebay product-descriptions from Chineses vendors because they copy descriptions from each other without understanding what they really sell.
The used micro cannot handle USB.
KainkaLabs you might be right, the description is at least confusing if not even contradictory. Though the one I found shows even a discharge curve (found on aliexpress)
Yes I know (we both found probably the same ad)
The curve is from a software from ZKE as far as I remember which I already downloaded in an English version for some of the still to be delivered battery charge-testers.
These curves are used as showpiece in more than one battery charge-tester which actually have no real USB functionality.
There is certainly a Software-enabled version of this unit. The following link is to a blog that reverse engineers the device's serial communications: syonyk.blogspot.com.au/2018/01/reverse-engineering-tec-06-serial.html - and he says he codes a Linux software of some form to grab the data. Note that the standard version can be hacked to add a remote serial port, and there are a number of links on that webpage for more information.
Sounds interesting, but the link doesn´t work :-(
Are you sure that it´s a USB-connection or is it just a pin of the micro that puts out serial data?
Just to be sure, this doesn't require a load to discharge the battery current?
If you mean "... to set the discharge current" instead of "...to discharge the battery current": You can set the discharge current without the load being connected.
@@KainkaLabs lol you got me. Ok cool thanks man. Love your vids
It needs to have constant voltage (CV) and constant current (CC) for lithium
No, because it´s a discharger, not a charger.
So it "needs" to have neither CV nor CC.
CC-discharge up to a final cutoff-voltage is just the usual way to measure battery capacity.
Roger is correct. Only charging requires a CC-CV specific charge curve so as to not overcharge the Li-Ion cell. It is good to have a settable constant discharge current so as not to exceed the particular battery's max discharge rating.
For the record: We now all know you phone unlock code
:D I didn't notice
Oops :-)
Big deal. He is doomed.
What is the model number for this board
TEC-06
So, you have shown us how to unlock your phone...
The NSA knows it anyway :-)
Hello, it looks like the white croc clip is not connected.
Iti is connected. There is a hard to see blank wire srewed into the screw-terminal where the croc-clip is clipped at..
I mean the other end. At 22:44 it seems to be hanging in air instead beeing clipped to the battery contact.
Yes. You are right.
But at that moment I had already found out that the "4-wire measurent" is in fact a "3-wire measurement" and both leads from the "-" pole of the battery are connected at the screw-terminals.
So here it has no effect on the measurement resp. the error in the voltage measurement under load.
I will explain everything about "true" and "false" 4-wire measurement in a forthcoming video and demonstrate in detail what is wrong with the way they tried to implement 4-wire connections with this devie.
The 2 outer wires "+" go the positive terminal of the battery while the 2 in the middle go to the negative terminal.
The follow-up video explains that: ruclips.net/video/3FEMPlNA0EQ/видео.html
The accuracy improved by a factor of 2.
The remaining error is due to the offset of the LM324. A precision quad rail-in/rail-out opamp would probably bring the remaining error down to zero.