To be a good welder you must have the eyes of an eagle and the hands of a surgeon and the brains of a piss ant, I am a retired union pipeliner worked 35 years and been retired 20 years, I have watched you on u tube Isaac and you always amaze me , I have done very little heavy equipment repair but never turned down the challenge of something new to learn, keep up the good work there is always something new to learn when welding.
Brains of a piss ant maybe for you, but in my own business I have to be able to solve engineering issues on the fly to get a customer back from the dead and operating without have to keep repairing the issue... outside the cheap repair customers who just want the quick dirty fix..
If you're dumber than a box of rocks, it wouldn't matter a lick if you had the hands of a surgeon. Your statement makes zero sense. Knowing how to correct a shoddy design takes intelligence. I don't know about you, but I'd pick a surgeon with a shaky hand with the brain of Einstein over a rock solid hand controlled by the brain of a moron.
@@dougdelane3642 Hello? Face diaper= face mask? I mean, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to work that out. The op might be onto something as far as having the brain of a piss ant.
Love the carbon arc torch, used one for the first time in1977. IC came thru again by identifying the problem. Made me smile when he added the extra pieces inside, this man knows what he is doing. Thanx for another instructional video. God bless you sir.
@@nortons4673 you would think that by a snobby college prick engineers don't take advice from anyone outside their field. Yet I keep fixing or getting shotty designed work...
@@nortons4673 true, would love to see that they have to take like 6 month internship in welding/Fabrication in the field following another engineers blue prints.. think that would improve the quality and designs better...
Surprised they didn't at least cut the horizontal beam coming out from the machine at the same angle as that square tube. It would have eliminated the big gap you filled in with the larger gusset, and provided a larger surface to weld to. Nice work, and super insightful to suspect the gap inside! Thanks for the lesson professor Isaac!
They probably didn't weld the backside of the square tube to avoid bowing it. There's a shaft in there with bearings on both ends. Factory welds are symmetrically on both sides of the square tube so the stresses cancel out. That's the only logical explanation I could come up with. Or it's just incompetence.
@@kasparroosalu blowing through is an issue but a good welder wouldn't... a MIG jockey paid 15 an hour ya they will not give a shit... I have gotten into a cat mini excovator and have found many weld defects that are the reason for failure.
The “horizontal beam” isn’t a beam, it’s a number of flat plates welded together. So it boils down to why not use bigger pieces and more plate? Initially the reason is of course 🤑 money. Now with time though, with the number of units out there getting used and abused in severe service for several years on end, they look at the failure rates/common failure points, and figure out using more plate on every single unit compared to the number of customers effected by this failure, they crunch the numbers and it’s just not worth it to us all as a whole. 99.99 % of customers manage to not constantly overdo it with the down pressure while grinding stumps and don’t have problems in this area. When used properly, this area is under very little stress, however if you obliviously and constantly take too big of a bite or increase the down pressure during the pass, the machine will hop itself up off the stump and bounce around leading to insane stress in this area as you can imagine. This is definitely the most common operator error with running stumpers and it occurs rarely and only lasts for a few seconds at a time with professionals using personally owned units. Those units handle the intermittent stress of this occurrence for years on end with nearly zero failures at the neck. However, this type abuse during operation is rampant and constantly/continuously occurring with rental units! When the operator is clueless and they don’t own it so they don’t care if it’s hopping around violently destroying itself or even just not considering how maybe that’s not the correct way to use it. Rental units hop and bounce around during their entire day long rental sometimes because of the combination of the for mentioned reasons combined with the rental companies using worn out cutters and charging people by the hour/day. You obviously don’t want an inexperienced guy borrowing an unfamiliar tool from you to be in a big hurry but that’s the situation they set up for themselves. So while they do obviously suffer occasional neck failures, the people they fail on, almost exclusively the rental companies, they easily make twice their money back on the machine by the time failure does occur so….. it’s not like their new at this and they continue to order new Vermeer units for their rental fleets as fast as they can get them because they are profitable long before they fail. Even with inexperienced unsupervised, unlimited abuse type of service, their still worth every penny they initially cost for them and earn profits. It sure is impressive when a heavy tracked machine jumps itself around and busts big pieces of stump off instead of grinding little bits like it should but anyone running something like this should honestly know better. It’s acts just like wheel hop in a serious 4x4 during a steep hill climb, if you keep it up loading/unloading violently, hopping the thing around, big bite, no bite, big load, no load, jumping itself around, eventually it’s gonna break something. It’s definitely not worth designing and building EVERYTHING to survive multiple years of the most extreme instances of constant abuse and operator ignorance. If we did that a F150 would cost everyone as much as a Baja trophy truck and this stump grinder would cost as much as a current F150. That would actually be the moment the idiots among us have officially won, when the majority of us can’t afford regular normal things anymore because everything needs to be designed and built completely idiot proof to the max. It’s bad enough a simple lawnmower already cost us all $5-$20 more to buy just because it needs comically ignorant safety stickers warning us not to stick our hand in the place the grass gets cut up🤔. Duh. Charge us all extra for a sticker reminding us to not eat our piano while you’re at it. The dumb far outnumber the rest of us at this point and even United together the rest of us simply cannot afford to pay enough extra on every item to compensate for and counteract the amount of ignorance running amuck. It’s progressed to the point where making something idiot proof nowadays has many levels and barriers we couldn’t of even imagined ten years ago. Idiots are bound to break stuff, it’s not worth idiot proofing the entire planet at our cost in effort to prevent those few abusive idiots from the occasional yet well earned disappointment of machine failures. Pretty much if these things break on you, you either deserved the down time for your ignorance, or by then the machine has earned the down time twice over with earned profits anyway. 👊
You were spot on with your prognosis. This machine was probably designed by an engineer who had all his education at university and no actual time on the floor repairing and building equipment. Back in the early 80’s when I did my apprenticeship, the engineers came from the floor after serving an apprenticeship and doing there studies while working as a tradesman. This gave them valuable hands on experience that doesn’t come from a university education.
Very nice comment Tony and you can probably guess I did a 5 year apprenticeship. I took a job at JCB in Staffordshire in 1984 with my apprenticeship eleven years behind me and an H.N.C. in Mechanical Engineering. One month into the job I had several design engineers and draughtsmen employees with degrees …… coming to me saying that they are going to make a complaint about my being a Senior Design Engineer on a salary of £9500 p.a. with ‘only’ an HNC ……. I wasn’t paid overtime. Ironically they earnt quite a bit more due to being paid overtime. One year later I moved job within JCB to escape the back biting and finally gave my notice in 1989. I went freelance contracting and earnt a lot more money with a lot less responsibility and I was paid overtime. 😆👍
Note that this is a 12 year old model, discontinued and superceded by the SC362/382 line. Perhaps some arborists/tree folks that use Vermeer/work with them can step in and add to the story? Also, I see some of these 372 as rentals, which is likely how these get wrecked/abused. Design could also be result of keeping costs down...and customers pay for the next revision...
Seems like engineers know their forces and math to design things but it's not their job to think ahead about how it's to be used, repaired or even assembled. Sometimes the smallest change makes a 6 hour job a 30 minute job...
@@xoxo2008oxox Designs are always to keep costs down. I suppose there are several stump grinders out there to chooses from. How does the durability of this machine compare to others in the same price range? I think repair Isaac made was good, I don't understand why he pulse welded versus continuous.
Vermeer should pay you a consulting fee for sorting out their design flaws. Kudos on a great repair, well thought out and executed. I always enjoy seeing what problems you figure out and solve.
Former Vermeer Engineer here. Learned a ton about metal there from very smart engineers, welders, machinists, and mechanics. I didn't work on stump cutters, but I think they also have a pretty good engineering team. There was a reason why they didn't weld the interior piece, though it may not be as it seems. I don't believe it would have been overlooked unless it was intentional. I can't speak for the engineer(s) that designed it, but generally if an issue arises they attempt to remedy asap. It may be that the "abuse" loading is more than can be reasonably expected to last on a machine of this size. If you get cracks in one place then strengthen it you often chase the cracks upward and outward to different places. After a few field failures they likely would have investigated and built a solution into the next design. Sometimes field repair kits are offered as well. Now, it's been a decade since I was there, but they kept parts book for all the old machines and would come up with solutions when new parts were necessary. Either way, Isaac's repairs are top notch and well reasoned. Sometimes the reasons and solutions are more than meets the eye.
I have to agree that it's a top notch repair. All of Isaac's repairs are well thought out and executed. I have to wonder why that vertical tube didn't crack. It may have been engineered that way to prevent the tube from cracking. There is a shaft inside that transmits power to the cutting disk which also acts as a flywheel. I could see if the tube cracked, bent but didn't come all the way off that you could bend the shaft or tear up one or both of the expensive 90deg gear boxes. Another commenter mentioned that he ran this type of stump grinder. He said that it could have come from operator abuse, cutting stumps that were too tall.
Isaac is an excellent fabricator and what he accomplishes is amazing. As a design engineer, I will say that sometimes the logic behind a design isn't always obvious. More than once I have made a change to very old equipment only to learn the hard way why the original design was so. Other times it's all about saving dollars. Hard to say in this case, but Isaac did a great job as usual; makes it look easy!
Yeah, most likely from repeated abuse and or past its expected life. Im assuming it's mainly from sideloading. I wonder if he could adjust the max pressure on that motion to reduce the stress while in use.
This repair, and so many others that he does, is the epitome of professionalism and going above and beyond the bare minimum to actually improve upon things. Well done.
Imagine if that great man was your father? Lottery win. Great job fixing, no cut corners, just a great solution. The shaking joke was good too, great entertainment and smart content to boot!
Man, I know next to nothing about welding. I thoroughly enjoy your channel and have learned quite a bit. I am super impressed by your humble spirit and seeing every job as a learning opportunity. It is also impressive how you don't belittle the previous guy's repair attempt, even when it is clearly not well done. You are a true master of your trade and an inspiration to all who tune in! Keep up the good work!
I don’t think anyone is going to argue with how a professional welder welds and the best way he thinks to do a job. Apart from the people who don’t know how to weld or do not have a job. Or just your standard kid keyboard warrior. Great job as allways sir. 🇬🇧
I love how you don't just scab something on it and weld it up. You clean it up so you can see and analyze the cause of the problem. Then make it as good as factory or usually better than original. I always learn something from your videos.Shake in the direction of the weld!
Reverse engineering the catastrophic failure is key to being an effective repair welder. I had a mentor with a brilliant analytical mind when I started out at an excavating company and he made me think things through at a level that would not have entered my mind. I think your repair was well thought out and effective. You're the only welder on youtube that I take seriously. Fine job my man.
Me too, as Charles Anderson pointed out, I am impressed with Isaac`s `forensic` style of repairing an original engineering design and or procedure issue. It would seem to me that the folks at Vermeer owe some thanks to I C Weld for solving this problem. Good job ( a bit of an understatement perhaps ) done here. Thanks for the video in showing this too, Isaac.
That's what most guys don't have, they can fix it but they don't know why it broke and how to prevent it from happening again. This guy is super talented, I would pay him to let me be his slave/helper/spare whatever....
This was a great episode. I’m really impressed with your skills. The troubleshooting, dissecting and fabrication all with common sense and a calm demeanor. The music was spot on as well. When I’m fabricating or looking at someone else’s patch job, I think about you and your methods. ✌️🇺🇸👍
Awesome job! "Cut in the direction you're shaking, makes it look like you're cutting straight." Words to live by! I think you more than doubled the strength of that arm. That was incredible!
You have done some amazing repair work on this machine. I like how that your not worried about going into something and not know for sure what’s behind it. Confidence in your ability to fix some of the damage you have come up against is amazing.
I LEARNED HOW TO STICK WELD AT A VOTEC SCHOOL IN 1975 WHEN I WAS 19 YEARS OLD AND THAT'S WERE I FELL IN LOVE WITH WELDING AND I ALSO LEARNED TO WORK ON WASHERS AND DRYERS AND SMALL APLIENTS AND ELECTRONIC MOTORS AND AIR CONDITIONERS AND LAWNMOWERS AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS SO I WATCH YOUR VIDEOS FOR ONLY ONE THING IS THAT YOU AND YOUR SON KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING KEEP UP THE FANTASTIC JOBS WELL TAKE CARE AND STAY SAFE TILL NEXT VIDEO TTYL
The words “well, there’s you’re problem lady”..., came to mind when you exposed that void behind the tubing and in front of that fabricated “i” beam.... Great work, thank you sir.
Air arc to the rescue. That thing is a real labor saver; in the right hands of course. 😉 Those old oak trees down there must be as hard as that concrete covered limestone ground around there.
You hit the nail on the head as far as "in the right hands". I know my first couple of times using one I dug into the parent metal and pretty much destroyed the workpiece. It wasn't a big deal simply because I had a mentor that wouldn't let me near a customer job. So I practiced on machines that were parted out and headed for the scrap yard. It's so easy to dig too deep with them. Isaac makes it look easy. His torch work is also top notch. And his welding. He's an incredible talent for sure.
Well done!! Unbelievable that they didn't close these gaps like you did during the repair. Putting together the mashine it would have cost only a little bit of steel and welding. Every engineer knows that at these parts there enormous forces. Can't stop shaking my head. Greetings from Germany
lost a good welder friend of mine before xmas ,like you he could see issues and would sort them. his fav saying "belt and braces ..........belt and braces " miss him every day. keep up the excellent repairs.
it was probably manufactured that way to cut production costs and the problem areas were covered. You always amaze me with the knowledge and skills you have acquired
What a smart individual you are and how fast you can determine what the root cause of the crack is. Most people would only assume it was a crack and not really get to the root of the problem, my hats to you sir.
There are times when in the engineering design of a machine, a future problem was overlooked, but never fear, if Isaac finds it, he will correct it. Thanks for the video, I always learn something in "How To Do It Right" welding and this time, I learned a lot more than I had even hoped for.
Appreciated the comment about shaking in the direction of the cut. Once a person was saying and old man had real bad shakes. Said his welding was perfect, he just held rod still, and his shaking made the perfect weld.
You have a great understanding of where the forces go and why things fail. The guys in the design office have probably never been to site. Great video thanks. Paul
First class analysis of the weakness of the design. The lower flange of the beam should continue across to the front of the box section and the shear web should also have butted onto the box and been welded to the box side wall.
Vermeer bought out the company I worked for a few years ago. As a welder their engineer's and safety design team make you scratch your head alot in confusion. Great video and another amazing repair!!!!
great job. it is actually a tough subject you conquered. resonant frequency of runtime. you can even find weird spots to go monster on an old chevy truck. shafts and things spinning, spring bouncing, tire digging. Manufacture makes it look simple. Only years reveals the missing extras.
The next three comments said it pretty well. Isaac I do hope you followup on talking to your local vocational programs and pass on your experience. We are losing our "craftsmen" everyday and with all the job hopping long term experience is not accumulating. Well Done Sir.
It would be really cool if the engineers from Vermeers would see this video and change their design somewhat. It would be even better if they would contact you and acknowledge the change giving you some credit but I fear most engineers would never credit anyone. Awesome work, really enjoy what you do to. You never seem to just "fix " the problem without doing a complete investigation first.
Great work, as usually you impress me. I find it interesting how the "engineer" that designed this machine and the fabricators that put it together did not see the issue that would happen over time. I had to chuckle when I saw you go for the added gussets. My mind went there as soon as you opened it up, I am glad to see that I am learning something from you. Thank you for sharing and marketing your skills.
You would be surprised to know how much engineering work is done by people who happened to be around at the time. At the same time the requirements towards engineers when hiring are equally out of place and what they actually do on a day to day basis also doesn't match. All a big FU.
Wth! I’ve got 2 SC 372’s both have over 1500hrs and they are bullet proof ! I’ve been running Vermeer stump grinders for 25 years and have never seen a failure right there. The only failures I ever had was on the bulkhead in front of the motor where the hydraulic ram meets the swing it left and right. I can’t imagine what that machine had been put through a have a failure right there unless it was just a flaw in the manufacturing process. Also on a sidenote we had one bounce off of a trailer and it broke up by the gearbox so insurance paid for all of that new stuff which included what you are repairing. And I see why you are working on it, I believe that part cost me/insurance around $4400 plus $300 shipping and that was before the labor having to put it on.
The failure or weakest point is the 4 bolts that hold the lower gear box on. The sc352 had those issues but most had over 2k hours before failure. But that’s the first I’ve even heard of in a 372. Now some people abuse the heck out of theirs using the wheel to push down and move over or if they are stuck swing the machine over like a back hoe does when it’s stuck and that could be the cause of this failure or a run of weak metal. Just odd.
Your background music is as intense as your welding skills. Makes one want turn it up as opposed to muting it or changing channels. Your skills are much respected and the word of mouth brings you jobs worthy of them. Very good teaching channel as well. Hats off to you sir.
You nailed this repair and upgrade. I have experience on these machines and the manufacturer either doesn’t understand the forces or doesn’t care because every Vermeer stump grinder I’ve seen that’s been used a lot develops cracks and most of them are along the welds but not always. When they changed to the offset shaft driven design they failed to beef it up enough to withstand the torsional and tension forces that can be very extreme when you mix in all the vibrations when grinding very hard stumps. They Florida-shaped piece you installed will work better because there is not a horizontal seam like they had. And with the torsion and vibration that’s going on that welded seam they had didn’t stand a chance over the long haul. Your insert will transfer forces to the vertical tube. Of course now other issues will develop because of forces just being transferred. Oh the life of a stump grinder.
I worked with stump grinders, one was an SC372. What happened here; is that this machine's user, is "grinding" stumps which are too tall, causing for the cutting wheel to want to roll up the side of the too tall stump. This then, generating more violent then designed for stresses on the machine. The stumps need to be cut as low to the ground as possible before grinding, so that the cutting wheel doesn't want to buck so violently as to cause these kinds of forces.
Ya probably a big portion of operator error , but u have repair that company's equipment and have found they tend to lack the proper structural support on a few of their directional drill rigs and pieces like this.. come in normal from cost from companies cheaping out on places to save a dime... I bought a Reading truck body in 2018 and they took out a $200 cross member on a ton of their bodys and had a huge warranty nightmare that cost them 35mil .. not enough people do their research when buying equipment from manufacturers for repair issue and normal repair cost.
My welding instructor back in school had Parkinson’s and he said the same thing. If you shake, shake in the right direction. The guy was a legend. He could barely drink a cup of coffee but he could lay down a stringer like it was nothing.
Things I like best on your site are that you diagnose the root of the problem, correct design flaws, and you have a visual record to present to your customers.
Isaac- Another thorough repair and I appreciated the fact that you didn't trash the initial vermeer build. Your humility and skill are the reason I continue to look forward to your videos. Best regards, mjm
Love how IC takes it to ground zero & explains why. My father in law had an old Ford 555 backhoe, patched the loader & boom with so many plates, looked like a checkerboard. Didn’t help that the unit was yellow & the patches were flat black…. Thanks IC 🙏
That screams of Engineer Left Hand wasn't in the Room with Engineer Right Hand when designing that thing. That is a Horrible way to unify the parts. At least you understood the issue. Nice repair!
I've always thought that hands-on engineering people have a better feel for what works and what doesn't than people who learnt it all at college. I started my working life as a toolmaker and it was not unusual to be presented with drawings that were totally impossible to machine. When I later joined a small design team I had a huge advantage of understanding tool paths, and even about about the strength of a fabricated component. I still used the tools and got to prove my designs before they went out for batch production, and never got tired of having a job in which I actually made physical things rather than sat in front of a computer all day.
I agree I work as R&D job shop we to where always dealing with engineering people. That would say than can draw we should be able to make it . Or when they designed a assembly . And are using the the most state of the art cad / cam model program. And you have senior machinist saying guys this is not going to work. Or there tolerances are to loose. Sorry I was taught to make is tight and pretty better than what to call out is.
You are very kind and thoughtful. Most guys would have started complaining about what a stupid design it is. Just one patch at the factory after another without any actual engineering. But you didn't say any of that. Good character.
Your beads on the final weld looked spectacular Isaac. I have a touch of OCD, and I find it soothing when a finished job looks great, which yours always do.
Vermeer makes great equipment, we had a trencher backhoe machine in the mid 80's. But that design sucks, there's no support for that vertical box tubing. That horizontal piece that pivots should have been cut to the same angle as the angled "boom" I'll call it, I guess Vermeer thought that welding on some brackets would be enough, crazy!! IDK if you have a video about how you got to this point but you are phenomenal at what you do!! I bet everyone local to you wants you to fix their stuff because they know how you work! I'd love to be trained by a guy like you... And the way you can use that rod that cuts thru the metal but you manage to save the metal behind it, yeah, you are very, very good at that as well!!
Great repair Isaac as always. Its a pleasure to look over your shoulder and learn some new stuff. I was put out to pasture at 40 because my health tanked but i sure wish i could have tried the weaving technique with the gouger. I never actually saw that before and i like it. I was pretty good with the thunderstick so i got stuck on it often. Its very efficient and you're a master at it. Thanks for the insight. (Michelle's hubby)
To be a good welder you must have the eyes of an eagle and the hands of a surgeon and the brains of a piss ant, I am a retired union pipeliner worked 35 years and been retired 20 years, I have watched you on u tube Isaac and you always amaze me , I have done very little heavy equipment repair but never turned down the challenge of something new to learn, keep up the good work there is always something new to learn when welding.
Brains of a piss ant maybe for you, but in my own business I have to be able to solve engineering issues on the fly to get a customer back from the dead and operating without have to keep repairing the issue... outside the cheap repair customers who just want the quick dirty fix..
@@facediaper4607 Says face diaper....
@@dougdelane3642 pull the dick out hard to understand ya
If you're dumber than a box of rocks, it wouldn't matter a lick if you had the hands of a surgeon. Your statement makes zero sense. Knowing how to correct a shoddy design takes intelligence. I don't know about you, but I'd pick a surgeon with a shaky hand with the brain of Einstein over a rock solid hand controlled by the brain of a moron.
@@dougdelane3642 Hello? Face diaper= face mask? I mean, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to work that out. The op might be onto something as far as having the brain of a piss ant.
Love the carbon arc torch, used one for the first time in1977. IC came thru again by identifying the problem. Made me smile when he added the extra pieces inside, this man knows what he is doing. Thanx for another instructional video. God bless you sir.
Companies should take note of the videos that IC puts out! What an amazing engineering/design knowledge he has acquired
@@nortons4673 you would think that by a snobby college prick engineers don't take advice from anyone outside their field. Yet I keep fixing or getting shotty designed work...
@@facediaper4607 that’s the way it goes unfortunately
@@nortons4673 true, would love to see that they have to take like 6 month internship in welding/Fabrication in the field following another engineers blue prints.. think that would improve the quality and designs better...
@@facediaper4607 the best ones do, but it feels as if they are the vast minority.
Surprised they didn't at least cut the horizontal beam coming out from the machine at the same angle as that square tube. It would have eliminated the big gap you filled in with the larger gusset, and provided a larger surface to weld to. Nice work, and super insightful to suspect the gap inside! Thanks for the lesson professor Isaac!
Lol the engine didn't think hard enough and the welder fab guys said fuck it I not getting paid to think so fu k it.
They probably didn't weld the backside of the square tube to avoid bowing it. There's a shaft in there with bearings on both ends. Factory welds are symmetrically on both sides of the square tube so the stresses cancel out.
That's the only logical explanation I could come up with. Or it's just incompetence.
@@kasparroosalu blowing through is an issue but a good welder wouldn't... a MIG jockey paid 15 an hour ya they will not give a shit... I have gotten into a cat mini excovator and have found many weld defects that are the reason for failure.
@@facediaper4607 I'm talking about bowing as in being bent like a bow.
The “horizontal beam” isn’t a beam, it’s a number of flat plates welded together.
So it boils down to why not use bigger pieces and more plate?
Initially the reason is of course 🤑 money.
Now with time though, with the number of units out there getting used and abused in severe service for several years on end, they look at the failure rates/common failure points, and figure out using more plate on every single unit compared to the number of customers effected by this failure, they crunch the numbers and it’s just not worth it to us all as a whole.
99.99 % of customers manage to not constantly overdo it with the down pressure while grinding stumps and don’t have problems in this area. When used properly, this area is under very little stress, however if you obliviously and constantly take too big of a bite or increase the down pressure during the pass, the machine will hop itself up off the stump and bounce around leading to insane stress in this area as you can imagine.
This is definitely the most common operator error with running stumpers and it occurs rarely and only lasts for a few seconds at a time with professionals using personally owned units. Those units handle the intermittent stress of this occurrence for years on end with nearly zero failures at the neck.
However, this type abuse during operation is rampant and constantly/continuously occurring with rental units! When the operator is clueless and they don’t own it so they don’t care if it’s hopping around violently destroying itself or even just not considering how maybe that’s not the correct way to use it.
Rental units hop and bounce around during their entire day long rental sometimes because of the combination of the for mentioned reasons combined with the rental companies using worn out cutters and charging people by the hour/day. You obviously don’t want an inexperienced guy borrowing an unfamiliar tool from you to be in a big hurry but that’s the situation they set up for themselves.
So while they do obviously suffer occasional neck failures, the people they fail on, almost exclusively the rental companies, they easily make twice their money back on the machine by the time failure does occur so….. it’s not like their new at this and they continue to order new Vermeer units for their rental fleets as fast as they can get them because they are profitable long before they fail. Even with inexperienced unsupervised, unlimited abuse type of service, their still worth every penny they initially cost for them and earn profits.
It sure is impressive when a heavy tracked machine jumps itself around and busts big pieces of stump off instead of grinding little bits like it should but anyone running something like this should honestly know better.
It’s acts just like wheel hop in a serious 4x4 during a steep hill climb, if you keep it up loading/unloading violently, hopping the thing around, big bite, no bite, big load, no load, jumping itself around, eventually it’s gonna break something.
It’s definitely not worth designing and building EVERYTHING to survive multiple years of the most extreme instances of constant abuse and operator ignorance.
If we did that a F150 would cost everyone as much as a Baja trophy truck and this stump grinder would cost as much as a current F150.
That would actually be the moment the idiots among us have officially won, when the majority of us can’t afford regular normal things anymore because everything needs to be designed and built completely idiot proof to the max. It’s bad enough a simple lawnmower already cost us all $5-$20 more to buy just because it needs comically ignorant safety stickers warning us not to stick our hand in the place the grass gets cut up🤔.
Duh.
Charge us all extra for a sticker reminding us to not eat our piano while you’re at it.
The dumb far outnumber the rest of us at this point and even United together the rest of us simply cannot afford to pay enough extra on every item to compensate for and counteract the amount of ignorance running amuck.
It’s progressed to the point where making something idiot proof nowadays has many levels and barriers we couldn’t of even imagined ten years ago.
Idiots are bound to break stuff, it’s not worth idiot proofing the entire planet at our cost in effort to prevent those few abusive idiots from the occasional yet well earned disappointment of machine failures.
Pretty much if these things break on you, you either deserved the down time for your ignorance, or by then the machine has earned the down time twice over with earned profits anyway. 👊
I C Weld and CEE Australia are the two best channels on RUclips!! You guys rock!
I am so impressed. Your work is always better then factory. The use of patterns is magic..
You were spot on with your prognosis. This machine was probably designed by an engineer who had all his education at university and no actual time on the floor repairing and building equipment. Back in the early 80’s when I did my apprenticeship, the engineers came from the floor after serving an apprenticeship and doing there studies while working as a tradesman. This gave them valuable hands on experience that doesn’t come from a university education.
Very nice comment Tony and you can probably guess I did a 5 year apprenticeship. I took a job at JCB in Staffordshire in 1984 with my apprenticeship eleven years behind me and an H.N.C. in Mechanical Engineering. One month into the job I had several design engineers and draughtsmen employees with degrees …… coming to me saying that they are going to make a complaint about my being a Senior Design Engineer on a salary of £9500 p.a. with ‘only’ an HNC ……. I wasn’t paid overtime. Ironically they earnt quite a bit more due to being paid overtime. One year later I moved job within JCB to escape the back biting and finally gave my notice in 1989. I went freelance contracting and earnt a lot more money with a lot less responsibility and I was paid overtime. 😆👍
Those were the days...
Note that this is a 12 year old model, discontinued and superceded by the SC362/382 line. Perhaps some arborists/tree folks that use Vermeer/work with them can step in and add to the story? Also, I see some of these 372 as rentals, which is likely how these get wrecked/abused. Design could also be result of keeping costs down...and customers pay for the next revision...
Seems like engineers know their forces and math to design things but it's not their job to think ahead about how it's to be used, repaired or even assembled. Sometimes the smallest change makes a 6 hour job a 30 minute job...
@@xoxo2008oxox Designs are always to keep costs down. I suppose there are several stump grinders out there to chooses from. How does the durability of this machine compare to others in the same price range? I think repair Isaac made was good, I don't understand why he pulse welded versus continuous.
Vermeer should pay you a consulting fee for sorting out their design flaws. Kudos on a great repair, well thought out and executed. I always enjoy seeing what problems you figure out and solve.
Former Vermeer Engineer here. Learned a ton about metal there from very smart engineers, welders, machinists, and mechanics. I didn't work on stump cutters, but I think they also have a pretty good engineering team. There was a reason why they didn't weld the interior piece, though it may not be as it seems. I don't believe it would have been overlooked unless it was intentional. I can't speak for the engineer(s) that designed it, but generally if an issue arises they attempt to remedy asap.
It may be that the "abuse" loading is more than can be reasonably expected to last on a machine of this size. If you get cracks in one place then strengthen it you often chase the cracks upward and outward to different places.
After a few field failures they likely would have investigated and built a solution into the next design. Sometimes field repair kits are offered as well.
Now, it's been a decade since I was there, but they kept parts book for all the old machines and would come up with solutions when new parts were necessary.
Either way, Isaac's repairs are top notch and well reasoned. Sometimes the reasons and solutions are more than meets the eye.
I have to agree that it's a top notch repair. All of Isaac's repairs are well thought out and executed. I have to wonder why that vertical tube didn't crack. It may have been engineered that way to prevent the tube from cracking. There is a shaft inside that transmits power to the cutting disk which also acts as a flywheel. I could see if the tube cracked, bent but didn't come all the way off that you could bend the shaft or tear up one or both of the expensive 90deg gear boxes. Another commenter mentioned that he ran this type of stump grinder. He said that it could have come from operator abuse, cutting stumps that were too tall.
Isaac is an excellent fabricator and what he accomplishes is amazing. As a design engineer, I will say that sometimes the logic behind a design isn't always obvious. More than once I have made a change to very old equipment only to learn the hard way why the original design was so. Other times it's all about saving dollars. Hard to say in this case, but Isaac did a great job as usual; makes it look easy!
Yeah, most likely from repeated abuse and or past its expected life. Im assuming it's mainly from sideloading. I wonder if he could adjust the max pressure on that motion to reduce the stress while in use.
Your skills are something special. Always I’m amazed by your thought processes as well as the finished product.
Q
52
I am the grasshopper and you are the Master. I watch, I learn.
Always good to see a job done right, instead of the usual slap it together and run away before it breaks again.
This repair, and so many others that he does, is the epitome of professionalism and going above and beyond the bare minimum to actually improve upon things. Well done.
Imagine if that great man was your father? Lottery win. Great job fixing, no cut corners, just a great solution. The shaking joke was good too, great entertainment and smart content to boot!
Man, I know next to nothing about welding. I thoroughly enjoy your channel and have learned quite a bit. I am super impressed by your humble spirit and seeing every job as a learning opportunity. It is also impressive how you don't belittle the previous guy's repair attempt, even when it is clearly not well done. You are a true master of your trade and an inspiration to all who tune in! Keep up the good work!
I don’t think anyone is going to argue with how a professional welder welds and the best way he thinks to do a job. Apart from the people who don’t know how to weld or do not have a job. Or just your standard kid keyboard warrior. Great job as allways sir. 🇬🇧
Have u met the internet? LOL
I love how you don't just scab something on it and weld it up. You clean it up so you can see and analyze the cause of the problem. Then make it as good as factory or usually better than original. I always learn something from your videos.Shake in the direction of the weld!
Love this fix, the pulse weld was a good call. Should last another 10 years under a new Apprentice learning the ropes on that machine
Love your videos Isaac! You are a master sir thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Please never stop making videos.
From the second they leave the shop grinders are trying to tear themselves apart. Nice work as always.
Paper Cad is always a life saver. Glad to see it didn’t stump you. No grinder to fix the grinder either. Mad skillz
I believe CAD is short for, Cardboard Aided Design.....😁
@@kristianskov4841 it is however he used paper so I couldn’t say just cad and Pad sounded dumb.
You have great understanding of why something cracked and how the forces are acting. Remember the bigger the blob the better the job.
Reverse engineering the catastrophic failure is key to being an effective repair welder. I had a mentor with a brilliant analytical mind when I started out at an excavating company and he made me think things through at a level that would not have entered my mind. I think your repair was well thought out and effective. You're the only welder on youtube that I take seriously. Fine job my man.
I like that you are fixing someone else's fix that didn't work but you are still respectful
That customer better be happy! NICE JOB!
Me too, as Charles Anderson pointed out, I am impressed with Isaac`s `forensic` style of repairing an original engineering design and or procedure issue. It would seem to me that the folks
at Vermeer owe some thanks to I C Weld for solving this problem.
Good job ( a bit of an understatement perhaps ) done here.
Thanks for the video in showing this too, Isaac.
For sure
That's what most guys don't have, they can fix it but they don't know why it broke and how to prevent it from happening again. This guy is super talented, I would pay him to let me be his slave/helper/spare whatever....
I love the way you explain what you're doing and the shortcoming behind the original designs. Please continue doing that.
This was a great episode. I’m really impressed with your skills. The troubleshooting, dissecting and fabrication all with common sense and a calm demeanor. The music was spot on as well.
When I’m fabricating or looking at someone else’s patch job, I think about you and your methods. ✌️🇺🇸👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
I smiled when you welded in those tiny gussets. That’s what I thought as soon as you were planning your attack. I freakin’ LOVE gussets!
Awesome job! "Cut in the direction you're shaking, makes it look like you're cutting straight." Words to live by! I think you more than doubled the strength of that arm. That was incredible!
Why is it that Isaac isn’t over 100,000 subscribers ? Let’s get him up there ! 🇦🇺 love your work mate .
It is a real pleasure watching an experienced man ply his trade. Thank you for sharing.
You have done some amazing repair work on this machine. I like how that your not worried about going into something and not know for sure what’s behind it. Confidence in your ability to fix some of the damage you have come up against is amazing.
You cut that apart like a Surgeon, you do beautiful work my friend, you have a great channel!!!
I LEARNED HOW TO STICK WELD AT A VOTEC SCHOOL IN 1975 WHEN I WAS 19 YEARS OLD AND THAT'S WERE I FELL IN LOVE WITH WELDING AND I ALSO LEARNED TO WORK ON WASHERS AND DRYERS AND SMALL APLIENTS AND ELECTRONIC MOTORS AND AIR CONDITIONERS AND LAWNMOWERS AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS SO I WATCH YOUR VIDEOS FOR ONLY ONE THING IS THAT YOU AND YOUR SON KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING KEEP UP THE FANTASTIC JOBS WELL TAKE CARE AND STAY SAFE TILL NEXT VIDEO TTYL
The words “well, there’s you’re problem lady”..., came to mind when you exposed that void behind the tubing and in front of that fabricated “i” beam....
Great work, thank you sir.
that's Eric O of South Main Auto's line when he does a diagnosis. 😅
You are too humble. That looks amazing.
Air arc to the rescue. That thing is a real labor saver; in the right hands of course. 😉 Those old oak trees down there must be as hard as that concrete covered limestone ground around there.
You hit the nail on the head as far as "in the right hands". I know my first couple of times using one I dug into the parent metal and pretty much destroyed the workpiece. It wasn't a big deal simply because I had a mentor that wouldn't let me near a customer job. So I practiced on machines that were parted out and headed for the scrap yard. It's so easy to dig too deep with them. Isaac makes it look easy. His torch work is also top notch. And his welding. He's an incredible talent for sure.
Glad to see that problem didn’t “stump” you. I’m not a welder but really enjoy your videos. Thanks.
We see what you did there.
@@bige.3474 yup. Have a good day.
Great repair, We always want to know whys first but sometimes digging deeper is a must when not an obvious reason , Excellent welding knowledge.
Well done!! Unbelievable that they didn't close these gaps like you did during the repair. Putting together the mashine it would have cost only a little bit of steel and welding. Every engineer knows that at these parts there enormous forces. Can't stop shaking my head. Greetings from Germany
You’ve help me a lot on cutting straighter watching your cutting techniques.
*I C Weld* Bravo well done, thank-you sir for taking the time to bring us along. God Bless.
Your fix looks so much better than the factory design. Well done Isaac!
lost a good welder friend of mine before xmas ,like you he could see issues and would sort them.
his fav saying "belt and braces ..........belt and braces " miss him every day.
keep up the excellent repairs.
Sorry to hear that
it was probably manufactured that way to cut production costs and the problem areas were covered. You always amaze me with the knowledge and skills you have acquired
Your cuts are nice because you plan or test your cut path to make sure you don't have to reset/adjust much. Looks like a great fix!
When I was young, I used to re-furbish old coolers. They called me El Coolero.
My name for you is El Maestro! Love your vids Isaac.
haha, thats an interesting nickname. Not good in spanish!😁😁
What a smart individual you are and how fast you can determine what the root cause of the crack is. Most people would only assume it was a crack and not really get to the root of the problem, my hats to you sir.
There are times when in the engineering design of a machine, a future problem was overlooked, but never fear, if Isaac finds it, he will correct it. Thanks for the video, I always learn something in "How To Do It Right" welding and this time, I learned a lot more than I had even hoped for.
Great job as usual.
I would laugh if Vermeer watched this and made the necessary changes to their machines. Great job on that.
Great job of exposing the real problem and fixing it once and for all!!
That's a fine repair, makes you wonder why it's not better design and build from new. Well done 👍
Appreciated the comment about shaking in the direction of the cut. Once a person was saying and old man had real bad shakes. Said his welding was perfect, he just held rod still, and his shaking made the perfect weld.
You have a great understanding of where the forces go and why things fail. The guys in the design office have probably never been to site. Great video thanks. Paul
First class analysis of the weakness of the design. The lower flange of the beam should continue across to the front of the box section and the shear web should also have butted onto the box and been welded to the box side wall.
Well done. I was wondering if you were going to fill those little gaps. Now let's hope youtube doesn't give you a strike for brandishing a firearm.
Vermeer bought out the company I worked for a few years ago. As a welder their engineer's and safety design team make you scratch your head alot in confusion. Great video and another amazing repair!!!!
Wow, great video of the difference between a professional welder and a hack!
When Big Bang happens all that will be left is this piece of plant and Cockroaches. Amazing repair, thanks for sharing.
great job. it is actually a tough subject you conquered. resonant frequency of runtime. you can even find weird spots to go monster on an old chevy truck. shafts and things spinning, spring bouncing, tire digging. Manufacture makes it look simple. Only years reveals the missing extras.
The next three comments said it pretty well. Isaac I do hope you followup on talking to your local vocational programs and pass on your experience.
We are losing our "craftsmen" everyday and with all the job hopping long term experience is not accumulating.
Well Done Sir.
Those inner gussets I think are a game changer!
It would be really cool if the engineers from Vermeers would see this video and change their design somewhat. It would be even better if they would contact you and acknowledge the change giving you some credit but I fear most engineers would never credit anyone. Awesome work, really enjoy what you do to. You never seem to just "fix " the problem without doing a complete investigation first.
Great work, as usually you impress me. I find it interesting how the "engineer" that designed this machine and the fabricators that put it together did not see the issue that would happen over time. I had to chuckle when I saw you go for the added gussets. My mind went there as soon as you opened it up, I am glad to see that I am learning something from you. Thank you for sharing and marketing your skills.
You would be surprised to know how much engineering work is done by people who happened to be around at the time. At the same time the requirements towards engineers when hiring are equally out of place and what they actually do on a day to day basis also doesn't match. All a big FU.
Wth!
I’ve got 2 SC 372’s both have over 1500hrs and they are bullet proof !
I’ve been running Vermeer stump grinders for 25 years and have never seen a failure right there.
The only failures I ever had was on the bulkhead in front of the motor where the hydraulic ram meets the swing it left and right.
I can’t imagine what that machine had been put through a have a failure right there unless it was just a flaw in the manufacturing process.
Also on a sidenote we had one bounce off of a trailer and it broke up by the gearbox so insurance paid for all of that new stuff which included what you are repairing. And I see why you are working on it, I believe that part cost me/insurance around $4400 plus $300 shipping and that was before the labor having to put it on.
Maybe running rounded over teeth so the machine was battering its way through the wood instead of cutting?
The failure or weakest point is the 4 bolts that hold the lower gear box on. The sc352 had those issues but most had over 2k hours before failure. But that’s the first I’ve even heard of in a 372.
Now some people abuse the heck out of theirs using the wheel to push down and move over or if they are stuck swing the machine over like a back hoe does when it’s stuck and that could be the cause of this failure or a run of weak metal. Just odd.
Mr IC you are my favorite welding channel....
I Appreciate that
Your background music is as intense as your welding skills. Makes one want turn it up as opposed to muting it or changing channels. Your skills are much respected and the word of mouth brings you jobs worthy of them. Very good teaching channel as well. Hats off to you sir.
Please do a video explaining how you determine when your flame is ready
Once again I’ve learned something new from your videos. Thank you sir for the continued education.
Never fails that I learn a trick on every video! Great Job!
Your son is blessed to have a teacher like you. Is he going to follow in your footsteps. As always thank you for sharing your skills.
You nailed this repair and upgrade. I have experience on these machines and the manufacturer either doesn’t understand the forces or doesn’t care because every Vermeer stump grinder I’ve seen that’s been used a lot develops cracks and most of them are along the welds but not always. When they changed to the offset shaft driven design they failed to beef it up enough to withstand the torsional and tension forces that can be very extreme when you mix in all the vibrations when grinding very hard stumps. They Florida-shaped piece you installed will work better because there is not a horizontal seam like they had. And with the torsion and vibration that’s going on that welded seam they had didn’t stand a chance over the long haul. Your insert will transfer forces to the vertical tube. Of course now other issues will develop because of forces just being transferred. Oh the life of a stump grinder.
I worked with stump grinders, one was an SC372. What happened here; is that this machine's user, is "grinding" stumps which are too tall, causing for the cutting wheel to want to roll up the side of the too tall stump. This then, generating more violent then designed for stresses on the machine. The stumps need to be cut as low to the ground as possible before grinding, so that the cutting wheel doesn't want to buck so violently as to cause these kinds of forces.
Absolutely, you should be grinding down onto a stump .
I've used one of these models , it was great for getting rid of stumps.
Ya probably a big portion of operator error , but u have repair that company's equipment and have found they tend to lack the proper structural support on a few of their directional drill rigs and pieces like this.. come in normal from cost from companies cheaping out on places to save a dime...
I bought a Reading truck body in 2018 and they took out a $200 cross member on a ton of their bodys and had a huge warranty nightmare that cost them 35mil .. not enough people do their research when buying equipment from manufacturers for repair issue and normal repair cost.
I was gonna comment that if an operator treated it like he wanted it to last, it would last forever.
My welding instructor back in school had Parkinson’s and he said the same thing. If you shake, shake in the right direction. The guy was a legend. He could barely drink a cup of coffee but he could lay down a stringer like it was nothing.
Things I like best on your site are that you diagnose the root of the problem, correct design flaws, and you have a visual record to present to your customers.
Isaac- Another thorough repair and I appreciated the fact that you didn't trash the initial vermeer build. Your humility and skill are the reason I continue to look forward to your videos. Best regards, mjm
Shake in the direction of the cut, that was funny. Great work on the re design expertly done.
"Shake in the Direction of the Cut." That was awsome.
Nice job I like that working from the inside to the outside so much missed inside thanks again ✌️
Thinking on one's feet in your trade shows depth of experience. Another fantastic video. Great craftsmanship. Great video
Love how IC takes it to ground zero & explains why. My father in law had an old Ford 555 backhoe, patched the loader & boom with so many plates, looked like a checkerboard. Didn’t help that the unit was yellow & the patches were flat black…. Thanks IC 🙏
That screams of Engineer Left Hand wasn't in the Room with Engineer Right Hand when designing that thing. That is a Horrible way to unify the parts. At least you understood the issue. Nice repair!
You are just a pleasure to watch! The best flaming hacksaw man i have ever witnessed! Great job!
Haha, Vermeer musta run short of material when they assemble welded those parts. Great recovery job!
Thanks for sharing.🇺🇸🏁🇺🇸👍
Who could argue with you about welding or fabricating....you do super great work!!!
Another very innovative solution successfully done - for sure this shows a design flaw considering the stresses on that area. Kudos Sir :)
I've always thought that hands-on engineering people have a better feel for what works and what doesn't than people who learnt it all at college. I started my working life as a toolmaker and it was not unusual to be presented with drawings that were totally impossible to machine. When I later joined a small design team I had a huge advantage of understanding tool paths, and even about about the strength of a fabricated component. I still used the tools and got to prove my designs before they went out for batch production, and never got tired of having a job in which I actually made physical things rather than sat in front of a computer all day.
I agree I work as R&D job shop we to where always dealing with engineering people. That would say than can draw we should be able to make it . Or when they designed a assembly . And are using the the most state of the art cad / cam model program. And you have senior machinist saying guys this is not going to work. Or there tolerances are to loose. Sorry I was taught to make is tight and pretty better than what to call out is.
Another beautiful job Isaac . Can't wait for the next video.
Great repair and welding i agree with you that fix should never be a problem again!!!
You are very kind and thoughtful. Most guys would have started complaining about what a stupid design it is. Just one patch at the factory after another without any actual engineering. But you didn't say any of that. Good character.
Your beads on the final weld looked spectacular Isaac. I have a touch of OCD, and I find it soothing when a finished job looks great, which yours always do.
You never cease to amaze me and what you come up with and what's your repair good stuff looking forward to your next. 👍👍😀🇨🇦
I see the heater is still working also! Another mess cleaned up and better than new!
Those welds are Beautiful... Damn! Nice Job. 🤘
Good repair Isaac! Nice one! 👍🏼👍🏼😀
Vermeer makes great equipment, we had a trencher backhoe machine in the mid 80's. But that design sucks, there's no support for that vertical box tubing. That horizontal piece that pivots should have been cut to the same angle as the angled "boom" I'll call it, I guess Vermeer thought that welding on some brackets would be enough, crazy!! IDK if you have a video about how you got to this point but you are phenomenal at what you do!! I bet everyone local to you wants you to fix their stuff because they know how you work! I'd love to be trained by a guy like you... And the way you can use that rod that cuts thru the metal but you manage to save the metal behind it, yeah, you are very, very good at that as well!!
Great repair Isaac as always. Its a pleasure to look over your shoulder and learn some new stuff. I was put out to pasture at 40 because my health tanked but i sure wish i could have tried the weaving technique with the gouger. I never actually saw that before and i like it. I was pretty good with the thunderstick so i got stuck on it often. Its very efficient and you're a master at it. Thanks for the insight. (Michelle's hubby)
Simply amazing early vision. Great work
Great job,Well done. As we say over here “every day’s a school day! “
An interesting job and challenge. A brilliant repair and a first class video too!