@@treadtyred9742Significantly reduced leverage and off-axis alignment of counter pulling to pedal force vector when out of saddle. Not good for rides with a lot of steep climbing, attacks, and/or gap-closing.
Changed my hoods slightly inwards this summer (not as agressive as yours) and I have to say it is a gamechanger for me, definitely recommend trying it!
I also turned the handles inwards because handlebar is too wide and hands get numb. Old bikes didn't have this problem because the handlebars were narrower and thinner.
I tried it after I crashed and the impact did it for me on one side. Just turned in the other side to match and I’ve been hooked ever since. Did it for the aero gains at first, real quickly realized just how much better it felt. I now promote it as simple an ergo thing that gives you a minor aero benefit. Never running straight levers on a bike ever again.
Great for aero, great for racing, but there’s never a comment on the compromise on braking ability, especially in emergency or unexpected situations where you need to jam brake, this is not the best option you want, imo.
Did that a couple of years ago with bars that are about 25cm at the top and 38 at the bottom. Everyone says its too narrow and looks stupid, but I knew it was a more natural position for me.
Flared gravel bars give a similar effect, and that is what I run on my road bike. Looks goofy, but works for my goofed up wrists that have reduced range of motion (negative ulnar variance).
Just ride what’s comfortable for you, regardless of what others say………if ya want the levers turned in then turn them in but if ya don’t then don’t. Every body is always recommending/ or you should if ya will,” on others on what to do all the time on how to ride a bike.
It is possible it feels comfier cause the bar in regulsr position is too wide...usually bikes are sold with wider bars compared to size...at least gravel ones
I never thought I would like riding a flatbar until I started riding my hybrid bike, I have never gone back! I know there are benefits to road bike handlebars but I wear a heavy backpack so I don't think curved handlebars would work unless I use saddlebags
I have a retro style bike called a Hero Hawk. It had brake extensions and i ride it like a flatbar. Single speed, heavy and just badass. Im well over 100 kgs so it suits me.
This way of setting bars ergonomically was championed by Jarno Sarinnen in the 70’s in the motorcycle world. He set his bars up at a steeper angle than the norm because our hands naturally fall in this way.
Personally, I can't stand straight bars (as on mountian bikes) I find them to be very uncomfortable and difficult to control - feels like driving a bus. To each his own, though.
Got myself my first gravel (after being born and living with an MTB). Bars, of course, set for 'the double H' from the shop. First ride, a few dozen km into it - massive wrist pain. I looked at the bars, tried moving my hands about. Discovered that turning the hoods inwards will help. Several thousand kilometers later, I am pretty sure that whoever decided that the hoods should point straight up has zero clue about anatomy. (and has possibly some weird "hobby")
Great effort Richie !! Keep it going. As long as you are riding and posting, ill be watching and wishing was on the bike instead of going to work every day. 👍👍
Firstly, love the sleeve tat👍🏻 I must say as goofy as it looks, it does make so much sense now you actually show it here. Still don't know if I want goofy on my new Bianchi, so I'm on the fence until I get prodded! 👍🏻👊🏻
Awesome VC that’s dope I’ve been riding em that long, I just barely did this to my indoor bike, it feels great especially when pulling on ur bars when ur exhausted uphill.
Even though it seems logical, I've tried that position once, not even that much crooked, its just impossible to handle bike. Dk maybe I did something wrong 🤷
Ehhh, comfort is a pretty big part of the riding experience. If you are not comfortable, you won’t want to ride. Getting a comfortable setup will help way more than 0.0001%. Now for aero gains, sure, but this is a comfort thing, not a performance thing.
Looks not good for steering. It remembers to time trial or triathlon bars, but for narrow high speed turns or bumpy roads it looks not comfortable at all. I guess there is a reason I have never seen this before.
This setup was so popular in the tour that they banned it. It’s been around for a while, and your intuition on how this would feel and ride is seems correct it wildly is not. The stability comes from the elbows being able to flair out, which counters the narrow bar fit. And if you look at the comments here of people who have tried it, 95% say it’s more comfortable. It doesnt seem like this would be good, but it’s actually amazing. Now my setup is extreme, but in the middle of double HJs and full on bull horns is perfect.
Also its worth mentioning that your fingers travel on an arc, not perfectly side to side. So changing gears feels like it takes a lot less effort when you crank your hoods in
Agreed. The only issue I have with it is that drop bars dont feel comfortable after being in these hoods. Tried for 3 dayd, didnt get used to. Any advice? 😮
It always looked comfier and more natural to me...until i tried it and was surprised about how unpleasant it felt...no matter the surface and hold position...it just feels wrong...elbows out feel uncomfy to me...tho it looks here like i should feel the opposite..to esch their own
That's not true at all. It's all about hand position, hold out your arms in front of you as limp as possible: You will find that your hand naturally fall in a more diagonal position and that rotating them to align vertically introduces a stretch in your wrist and forearm. I personally am 6'1 and broad shouldered and I use this hood placement for both 38cm bars and 44cm bars on my road and gravel bikes.
one important thing to note regarding the video is he mentions the grip on the hoods give you more control and proceeds to demonstrate the position at 0:38. this position is actually LESS aerodynamic than conventional hood setups. It's noted by leading aerodynamicists that if your arms go out in response to the inwards shifted hoods instead of tuck within your bodies frontal area: it actually results in more drag and a worse aerodynamic position. otherwise if your body naturally tucks inwards and merges with your body in the frontal area: its faster
That's the position for control. It's for when you're going down on technicals and aero is not a priority. You can also do that position with a straighter hood setup but it will feel more awkward. He showed a different position for aero. It's the one where the pinky fingers are tucked in.
Brake hoods need to be set up for braking and shifting from the drops. That includes height and tilt. Unless you're planning to never use the drops. Then all of these conversations are worth little. Try this yourself and see what grabbing a handful of brake at 80 kph feels like with your levers all twisted.
Even with my extreme hood position, it hasn’t affected my braking or shifting at all. I could see the potential of it hurting a rim brake/cable shift setup, but with an electronic/hydraulic setup, there’s no difference in braking/shifting.
@@TheVCAdventures For mechanical shifting there are all sorts of implications. But let's think about the pull of that brake lever back to the bar-- which is no longer in line as designed. I would ask the kind people of RUclips to try this for themselves. You'll see-- and you can probably imagine, if you've been cycling long enough-- how that lever travels as it moves backward through its stroke. Take it to its extreme and imagine the lever is rolled all the way in, approaching 90 degrees to the bar and consider the lever travel. I'm glad you like your lever positions. I think it's a load of hogshyte, myself. And the aero benefits are meaningless to 98% of the cyclists out there. In the end, you do you-- this goes for everyone.
Ok, but still, like many others, you seem angry about this setup without actually trying it. I’ve ran this for 4 years, I’ve raced, trained, and road around d 50,000 mi with this setup. Not once did I have an issue with shifting or braking. And the main benefit is comfort and stability, aero is a separate thing. I do agree with you on one thing, do whatever you want. But let’s not trash something we don’t have any experience with.
@@alanschlug5418It's funny because pro riders go WAY faster downhill and they ran their hoods tilted just fine. It's called a reach adjustment screw. Also you can tap them in and still keep the lever relatively in line with the drops, not splayed out like this guy. I've survived many close calls just commuting in SoFlo on this setup
@@josephreilman8527 Two keys bits you added that work against your own assertion. One is 'just fine.' And the other is 'ran.' I suspect you know the rest-- which makes one wonder why you would attempt this approach. Tilted levers were 'ran' that way by pros until they (the UCI) made a rule against it because, rather than being 'just fine,' other pro riders and D.S.s had to admit it was dangerous. Dangerous for the exact reasons previously discussed. Thank you for your participation. I only bring up the UCI because you mentioned pro riders-- I know full well those rules will never apply to us.
double handjob gave me so much pain in my wrist, the trend of narrow handlebar and inward hood was a revelation for me, so much more comfort on the bike
tried n had major pain on the begining of my thumb... so I had to tone it down from 3 o clock to like 2 o clock. id say urs are at 4 o clock almost... yikes... couldnt do it
I find regular hood position perfectly comfortable. But that has mostly to do with proper bike size and fit, not putting much weight on the hands. And not holding the bar with a death grip. Death grip is for the rare times when you are in the drops.
Our hands/wrists do not naturally fall linear vertically or horizontally which is why super straight flat mtb bars are very uncomfortable and regular drop bars tend to lead to numbness and many other chronic issues. That’s for the masses. There are, of course, people like yourself who can be comfortable and not have issues in that position. You are BY FAR in the minority, though. Most will benefit from a more natural hand/wrist position.
@@TobyLerone76 facts are facts. While humans differ in small ways, our anatomy, especially joint anatomy, is very similar from person to person. Obviously size changes, but we are all very anatomically similar.
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UCI wants to know your location... 🕵️🔍
black helicopters already fueled.
Ok stay calm and use your illegal bars and run 😂
A velocopter just flew over my house bro. This isn't a game.
Can't stop me from putting 5hp motor in down tube only the width of a pencil
😂😂😂😂😂
Looked stupid until I tried it. Way, way more comfortable.
True
You’re missing out on crucial double HJ training tho
@@longebane exactly??! Does no one care about double HJ training anymore? :'(
Yep till I get out the saddle and it's horrible. So I only turn them a little.
@@treadtyred9742Significantly reduced leverage and off-axis alignment of counter pulling to pedal force vector when out of saddle. Not good for rides with a lot of steep climbing, attacks, and/or gap-closing.
Changed my hoods slightly inwards this summer (not as agressive as yours) and I have to say it is a gamechanger for me, definitely recommend trying it!
Funny video....after I had an accident, it seems my hoods are now in the same angle, very ergonomic and comfortable😅
I also turned the handles inwards because handlebar is too wide and hands get numb. Old bikes didn't have this problem because the handlebars were narrower and thinner.
Or, just get some narrower bars. You nincompoop.
I knocked mine inward when I saw this short for the first time. Much more comfortable for sure!
Nicely explained & so much better. Younger riders are adopting / have adopted it but older ones, it takes time to convince them!!
A lot of older ones are still preaching about rim brakes and 18mm tyres in the 90s.
gen x are the most stubborn
I tried it after I crashed and the impact did it for me on one side. Just turned in the other side to match and I’ve been hooked ever since. Did it for the aero gains at first, real quickly realized just how much better it felt. I now promote it as simple an ergo thing that gives you a minor aero benefit. Never running straight levers on a bike ever again.
You made the point so well it almost kept my mind off those shocking shorts.
I've just done 600km with the hoods inward and it's definitely the most comfortable riding position I've ever had 👍
Great for aero, great for racing, but there’s never a comment on the compromise on braking ability, especially in emergency or unexpected situations where you need to jam brake, this is not the best option you want, imo.
Yeah the crazy lever angles are what put me off
Did that a couple of years ago with bars that are about 25cm at the top and 38 at the bottom. Everyone says its too narrow and looks stupid, but I knew it was a more natural position for me.
Flared gravel bars give a similar effect, and that is what I run on my road bike. Looks goofy, but works for my goofed up wrists that have reduced range of motion (negative ulnar variance).
Just tilted mine in a few degrees. Going to see if that helps with some of the shoulder discomfort I feel during long rides.
Just ride what’s comfortable for you, regardless of what others say………if ya want the levers turned in then turn them in but if ya don’t then don’t. Every body is always recommending/ or you should if ya will,” on others on what to do all the time on how to ride a bike.
you recognized he said SHOULD and not MUST? 🤦🏻♂️
Got away from ya a little at the end there, but im with you
Sounds like you don’t agree with this.
I wouldn’t get too bogged down in semantics,it was just a recommendation based on his experience.
Every time I move them in, i keep adjusting them until they are back in neural postion. 36cm on the hoods anyway.
It is possible it feels comfier cause the bar in regulsr position is too wide...usually bikes are sold with wider bars compared to size...at least gravel ones
I never thought I would like riding a flatbar until I started riding my hybrid bike, I have never gone back! I know there are benefits to road bike handlebars but I wear a heavy backpack so I don't think curved handlebars would work unless I use saddlebags
Wow, i do ride like that some years, and this way is much comfortable. It works just fine. Hello from Russia, good luck.
I'll keep this in mind when it's time to change the tape.
I have used this same set up the last 10 years. I did it because it was just more comfortable. And from observing TT riders and their set up.
isn't your bar just abit to wide for the with of your shoulders? I do the double HJ and it's super comfy so i dunno man
It's a way to fix a too wide handlebar without buying a new one.
Us old folks are kind of snickering that you just discovered Dirt Drops...
Aero in the sphinx position otherwise it flairs your elbows for the majority of folks. Also less stable.
"Sphinx position". Nice term. 👍🏻
Don’t forget about the sweet ass TT bars 🙌🏼
Depends a lot on each person’s shoulder width but yes generally correct
I run mine this way now. Way less pain in the shoulders & traps as this opens them up rather than squeezing them together.
Bro doens't say your bar is too wide, he calls it naturally comfortable.
my ranked teammates
I have a retro style bike called a Hero Hawk. It had brake extensions and i ride it like a flatbar.
Single speed, heavy and just badass. Im well over 100 kgs so it suits me.
I’ve been running my hoods like this for about 6 yrs now. Very comfortable positioning.
Thanks for sharing this information Brother 😎✌️
double HJ's! love it! lol
😂😂😂
🤨
Made me chuckle
Why 2x HJ's
When you can have tilted 2xHJ'S?
Why do you love double HJs? The thrill of disappointing two people at the same time?
This way of setting bars ergonomically was championed by Jarno Sarinnen in the 70’s in the motorcycle world. He set his bars up at a steeper angle than the norm because our hands naturally fall in this way.
Dude, first drop bar road guy to make sense 👍 Flat bars, diamond grip, elbows up
VC just showing his secret for bigger biceps.
Personally, I can't stand straight bars (as on mountian bikes) I find them to be very uncomfortable and difficult to control - feels like driving a bus. To each his own, though.
Got myself my first gravel (after being born and living with an MTB).
Bars, of course, set for 'the double H' from the shop.
First ride, a few dozen km into it - massive wrist pain. I looked at the bars, tried moving my hands about. Discovered that turning the hoods inwards will help.
Several thousand kilometers later, I am pretty sure that whoever decided that the hoods should point straight up has zero clue about anatomy.
(and has possibly some weird "hobby")
Great effort Richie !! Keep it going. As long as you are riding and posting, ill be watching and wishing was on the bike instead of going to work every day. 👍👍
Maybe your handle bars were just too wide?
my ranked teammates
Shattered my wrist last May mountain biking. 2 surgeries later and any bike has been absurdly uncomfortable. Will give this a try.
Firstly, love the sleeve tat👍🏻 I must say as goofy as it looks, it does make so much sense now you actually show it here. Still don't know if I want goofy on my new Bianchi, so I'm on the fence until I get prodded! 👍🏻👊🏻
Love you dude ! 🫶🏼✨
done this on my first road bike, totally agree.
Super man keep posting more content like you are good at it 😊
Awesome VC that’s dope I’ve been riding em that long, I just barely did this to my indoor bike, it feels great especially when pulling on ur bars when ur exhausted uphill.
...and, just tried it, makes your brake lever reach a bit shorter. Not bad!
I always been setting up hoods slightly inwards because it felt natural to hand rest, never seen a video of people actually doing it
Even though it seems logical, I've tried that position once, not even that much crooked, its just impossible to handle bike. Dk maybe I did something wrong 🤷
Yep. I agree with all this. It certainly works for me too
And how about climbing while standing grip and also braking effectiveness?
It’s also nice for showing off your biceps. 💪
Crashed riding my bike and one of the shifter pushed in like this and i didnt notice till riding it later and realizing how comfortable one side was
well that's okay until your shifter housing cracks and your brake levers arent in an efficent position. They are designed to following the bar.
I run my bar slightly inwards, just cause it’s more comfortable, but that’s too extreme for me. double hand jobs had me rolling.🤣
I’m a “if little good, more better” type a guy. So mine are definitely extreme, a less aggressive tilt is probably best.
How is it on the drops?
Lose weight, ride hard... you'll get faster overall. Lever position is .0001% of the equation
Ehhh, comfort is a pretty big part of the riding experience. If you are not comfortable, you won’t want to ride. Getting a comfortable setup will help way more than 0.0001%. Now for aero gains, sure, but this is a comfort thing, not a performance thing.
Somebody should tell the Tour de France lads about this. They're all about the micro gains.
I've said it for years, "neutral isn't necessarily natural."
I tilt my hoods in too but if you tilt them that far maybe the bar is too wide
Really good!
Its why gravel bikes handles are like this
My bike fitter actually adjusted my hoods like this 👍🏼
Looks not good for steering. It remembers to time trial or triathlon bars, but for narrow high speed turns or bumpy roads it looks not comfortable at all. I guess there is a reason I have never seen this before.
This setup was so popular in the tour that they banned it. It’s been around for a while, and your intuition on how this would feel and ride is seems correct it wildly is not. The stability comes from the elbows being able to flair out, which counters the narrow bar fit. And if you look at the comments here of people who have tried it, 95% say it’s more comfortable.
It doesnt seem like this would be good, but it’s actually amazing. Now my setup is extreme, but in the middle of double HJs and full on bull horns is perfect.
Mine are inward too didn’t even notice until I watched this video 😂
Tyler's short shorts are too short, but I'm listening.
funny how many are commenting about too wide handle bars, though he explained in the video that the wider the beterr it is for control and handling.
Feels really weird for me when standing up
Also its worth mentioning that your fingers travel on an arc, not perfectly side to side. So changing gears feels like it takes a lot less effort when you crank your hoods in
Agreed. The only issue I have with it is that drop bars dont feel comfortable after being in these hoods. Tried for 3 dayd, didnt get used to. Any advice? 😮
Yup it’s comfy, thanks!
does this feel odd for out of the saddle climbing?
gravel bars with flares just exist)
It always looked comfier and more natural to me...until i tried it and was surprised about how unpleasant it felt...no matter the surface and hold position...it just feels wrong...elbows out feel uncomfy to me...tho it looks here like i should feel the opposite..to esch their own
That high seat and tight shorts say different.😁
Funny I stripped my bike down to service and rebuild it and this was naturally where I put the levers cause it felt most comfortable 🤷♂️
100%agree after you start trying it
Wait… that’s actually a thing?! I only ride like that after a bad fall. And usually just one
lol you’re a trend setter apparently.
You’ll have to fall on the other side now to make them even 😂
Road cycing academy has a short video on a coefficient cycling handlebar with the same logic.
Hello!
Is it good for a Gravel bike?
Running your hoods that far in means your bars are too wide.
That's not true at all. It's all about hand position, hold out your arms in front of you as limp as possible: You will find that your hand naturally fall in a more diagonal position and that rotating them to align vertically introduces a stretch in your wrist and forearm. I personally am 6'1 and broad shouldered and I use this hood placement for both 38cm bars and 44cm bars on my road and gravel bikes.
perfect.
How do you brake when your hands are in drops?
one important thing to note regarding the video is he mentions the grip on the hoods give you more control and proceeds to demonstrate the position at 0:38. this position is actually LESS aerodynamic than conventional hood setups. It's noted by leading aerodynamicists that if your arms go out in response to the inwards shifted hoods instead of tuck within your bodies frontal area: it actually results in more drag and a worse aerodynamic position. otherwise if your body naturally tucks inwards and merges with your body in the frontal area: its faster
He knows. That's why position 1 and 3 are the primary position. 2 is only if you're going over some really rough shit
he just shows ability to flare elbows naturally in case you need balance out hitting hole or mark cavendish or other shit
That's the position for control. It's for when you're going down on technicals and aero is not a priority. You can also do that position with a straighter hood setup but it will feel more awkward. He showed a different position for aero. It's the one where the pinky fingers are tucked in.
@@Shadowboost I know but he didn’t clarify and might be misinterpreted
Brake hoods need to be set up for braking and shifting from the drops. That includes height and tilt. Unless you're planning to never use the drops. Then all of these conversations are worth little. Try this yourself and see what grabbing a handful of brake at 80 kph feels like with your levers all twisted.
Even with my extreme hood position, it hasn’t affected my braking or shifting at all. I could see the potential of it hurting a rim brake/cable shift setup, but with an electronic/hydraulic setup, there’s no difference in braking/shifting.
@@TheVCAdventures For mechanical shifting there are all sorts of implications. But let's think about the pull of that brake lever back to the bar-- which is no longer in line as designed. I would ask the kind people of RUclips to try this for themselves. You'll see-- and you can probably imagine, if you've been cycling long enough-- how that lever travels as it moves backward through its stroke. Take it to its extreme and imagine the lever is rolled all the way in, approaching 90 degrees to the bar and consider the lever travel.
I'm glad you like your lever positions. I think it's a load of hogshyte, myself. And the aero benefits are meaningless to 98% of the cyclists out there. In the end, you do you-- this goes for everyone.
Ok, but still, like many others, you seem angry about this setup without actually trying it. I’ve ran this for 4 years, I’ve raced, trained, and road around d 50,000 mi with this setup. Not once did I have an issue with shifting or braking. And the main benefit is comfort and stability, aero is a separate thing.
I do agree with you on one thing, do whatever you want. But let’s not trash something we don’t have any experience with.
@@alanschlug5418It's funny because pro riders go WAY faster downhill and they ran their hoods tilted just fine. It's called a reach adjustment screw. Also you can tap them in and still keep the lever relatively in line with the drops, not splayed out like this guy. I've survived many close calls just commuting in SoFlo on this setup
@@josephreilman8527 Two keys bits you added that work against your own assertion. One is 'just fine.' And the other is 'ran.' I suspect you know the rest-- which makes one wonder why you would attempt this approach. Tilted levers were 'ran' that way by pros until they (the UCI) made a rule against it because, rather than being 'just fine,' other pro riders and D.S.s had to admit it was dangerous. Dangerous for the exact reasons previously discussed. Thank you for your participation. I only bring up the UCI because you mentioned pro riders-- I know full well those rules will never apply to us.
double handjob gave me so much pain in my wrist, the trend of narrow handlebar and inward hood was a revelation for me, so much more comfort on the bike
Double h J 's 🤣🤣🤣🤣 fn hilarious can't stop lmao. But I'm going to try it .
tried n had major pain on the begining of my thumb... so I had to tone it down from 3 o clock to like 2 o clock. id say urs are at 4 o clock almost... yikes... couldnt do it
Huh?!? What clock are you looking at? His are at about 1 o'clock, maybe 1:30. 3 o'clock would be turned 90°.
😂😂😂@@bgrutterdds
@@bgrutterdds 🤣 wasnt really looking at one, just picturing in my mind, but you get the picture 😅😜🤣
Bro just discovered gravel riding
What's the reach like for the brakes on the drops through. Surely you'll have to flex the fingers further around and in?
I know it may seem like it, but at least for me there’s no sacrifice for breaking. Now maybe rim brakes could have less power but not hydraulic.
I find regular hood position perfectly comfortable. But that has mostly to do with proper bike size and fit, not putting much weight on the hands. And not holding the bar with a death grip. Death grip is for the rare times when you are in the drops.
Our hands/wrists do not naturally fall linear vertically or horizontally which is why super straight flat mtb bars are very uncomfortable and regular drop bars tend to lead to numbness and many other chronic issues. That’s for the masses. There are, of course, people like yourself who can be comfortable and not have issues in that position. You are BY FAR in the minority, though. Most will benefit from a more natural hand/wrist position.
@@georgeforeman89BY FAR lmaooooooo
@@TobyLerone76 facts are facts. While humans differ in small ways, our anatomy, especially joint anatomy, is very similar from person to person. Obviously size changes, but we are all very anatomically similar.
Works in a gravel bike?
Especially for gravel, the extra stability with the elbows out helps so much on the gravel bike.
whats the name of the bar?
It’s from Canyon for Canyons, it’s called the “PACE” bar.
I need to try this. I've thought about it for years.
Maybe just get a smaller width handlebar...
wouldn't you have the same effect If you had narrower bars????
Double HJs are more aero. Elbows out is not
Where do I get these?
I have mine turned in but your levers have way too much rake on them for my liking
Idk about more stable
the internet doesnt hate it, just gen X
This guy knows a thing or two about giving hjs