The problem with PCIE5 drives and motherboards - Corsair MP700 NVME
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- Опубликовано: 14 ноя 2023
- With all these new crazy fast NVME drives being launched there seems to be a few issues that we need to talk about....
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This channels views have gone down, but this guy constantly produces quality content. I remember when I had more free time that I'd happily sit there with some tea and biscuits and watch the videos even if I had no intentions of buying the product.
Keep up the good work TTL, your videos are like no other PC enthusiasts out there
agree, my favorite go to
He's just posted two screenshots of the benchmarks, doesn't mention the gigabyte G5 smokes it at random reads and writes which would actually be preferred for a boot drive. And then has complained about the heatsink for the rest of the video when most people are just going to use the mobo heatsink and call it a day.
He's not mentioned what it's like using this drive in any aspect, windows boot\program loading times. Average response time\write cache size. It would be a least interesting if he did some tests of running the drive through the chipset PCIe lanes, see how PCIE 5.0 holds up being connected even further away from the cpu.
Not exactly a "in-depth" review. But I guess it's alright for the average joe? idk
I watch every single vid from Tom!
@@BKHD605 There is very little difference between in PCIE-3.0 to 4.0 to 5.0 in real world terms other than sequential read & write.
I completely agree, one of the best hardware channel, stupid YT algorithm...
When I saw your title, I really thought that the first thing you would mention is that Intel only provides 16 gen 5 PCIE lanes, so if you want to use that gen 5 SSD, you'll have to drop your GPU down to 8 lanes. Why Intel couldn't provide 20 gen 5 lanes is a mystery to me.
@@InquisitorEuro I guess so. They provide 20 gen 4 lanes, so how hard would it have been to supply 20 gen 5??? PC Enthusiasts don't like to intentionally bottleneck their latest gen gear like this.
Oh wow I think there's 28 on my x670e. That would majorly annoy me. How many lanes does a modern gpu really need though?
@@InquisitorEuroI still remember buying a rob formula iv x79 back in the day for around 300AUD and you could get 40 lanes for that. If only hedt prices weren't ridiculous these days.
@@xzaros From the channels I've seen that have spoken about it, you only lose about 2-5% performance of a gen 4 GPU running it through 8 lanes instead of 16. That's why I said "PC enthusiasts," because while many wouldn't care about such a small loss in graphics performance to double their single SSD throughput (all the rest of the M.2 SSDs on the mobo will run gen 4 through the chipset anyway), it's the enthusiast that pays top dollar for components when building their rig, so a 2-5% automatic bottleneck just goes against the grain. I'm looking at my 2015 X99 HEDT PC right now with 40 pcie gen 3 lanes that has 3 EVGA GTX-980ti Classifieds rigged in SLI--But don't get me started with SLI. LOL. I don't use it for gaming anymore, but I still run Windows 10 and MS Office on it for nostalgia's sake. And once it boots up on the old M.2 Gen 2 NVME SSD, The Intel 5960X CPU is still not a bad performer.
@@xzaros do a YT search for "EXPLAINED: PCIe lane SWITCHING & Biggest MISTAKES! |" by Tech Notice. He lays out the issue very well but doesn't go into specifics about actual % performance loss dropping from 16 to 8 lanes with a gen4 GPU. He says, "That will be a whole other video" which he hasn't posted yet. My MSI Z790 ACE MAX uses M.2_1 for a PCIE Gen 4x4 SSD, but it dedicates the M.2_4 slot for a PCIE Gen 5x4 SSD which would switch my PCIE_1 slot from X16 to X8 lanes. The other 3 M.2 slots go through the chipset.
When you sort out issues in a show like this, you're saving viewers untold time & expense, Tom. Thank you and please, have a safe Holiday Season...🇺🇸 👍☕
can you help in how we go about making a water cooling set up only for ssd while the rest of the pc runs on positive pressure fan setup
Love the Fiesta ST MK7 drawing in the background. 😎
gen 4 is plenty fast for the common pc user. until they make mobos that can cool gen 5 properly while blending in with the mobo heatsink .
100% hitting the nail as always!
Anyone tried to pair two PCIe 4.0 SSD into Raid0, is there any significant performance gain (gaming)?
I believe that there were some videos from Computex, where they were running 2 (or more) PCIe gen 5 drives in raid to show off insane speeds.
I like the idea of a full-cover water block, I would also like the option of a no-fan VRM and NVME cooler. what is wrong with a simple pin-fin heatsink, are they trying to run these things at TJ-max or something.
Good on Gigabyte for having a decent heatsink on their board for NVME drives, and I wouldn't drop to a Gen 4 just drop to one of the 10,000 as it should be a bit cooler than the 12,000.
I have a x670e hero and a t700 4TB getting terrible speeds any ideas are you seeing the same ?
t700 from crucial? I have a t500 and heard of some t500s having a firmware issues dropping read or write speeds down to half. Maybe t700 has the same issue?
@@jod1653 excatly that, i have a massive thread open on ASUS and MSI website, i can see both AMD and intel users having the same issue(s) have tickets open with micron also.
Hi Tom, One alternative to this situation is a lower-height heatsink with a fan that you can order cheaply from many retail/webshop dealers. Even with that, you might still have to remove the M.2 cover. Alternatively, the MP700 PRO Hydro X Series version ships with a pre-assembled water block that fits easily into your custom cooling loop, delivering top-of-the-line cooling and performance while virtually eliminating throughput throttling.
I dont think the lower heatsinks even with the fan would cope with this. Those were designed for pcie4 drives
@@OC3D I have an ASRock X670E Steel Legend and it has a third-party M.2 heatsink with cooler (fan) that fits without problems.
How can u expect ek to make so many waterblocks for different motherboards
They do already.
So true about the mobo heat sinks... On the x670 Crosshair Hero and a 4tb Crucial t700 (using the gen5 m.2 wired to CPU), I could not use Crucial's heat sink due to the bottom plate of the heat sink not allowing it to seat flush on the post, this meant the m.2 "quick connect" latch does't fit (I came close to breaking it) ... Had to use the mobo's heat sink which isn't all that bad, but I could have saved $30 by negating crucial heat sink.
Thanks Tom. Corsair has a waterblock for a 2280 size, M.2 SSD. I used it for a build with one of their MP600 series drives. It is the Corsair XM2 (CX-9029002-WW). I used it in a build a while back. Worked very well, but depending on your MB, it may be just as difficult to fit as that fan above the drive. I don't think there would be any problem using it with an MP700. In my opinion, use of any gen 5 device in current boards is a problem because of lack of lanes. Use one in the gen 5 slot and you go from 16 down to 8 lanes for your graphics card.
I think the clutter for the extra hosing is just going to end up looking messy. A single cpu/vrm and pcie5 heatsink with just two connectors would be ideal
What happened to this channel's views. RUclips algorithm what's wrong with you.
well, might be time to either pop those somewhere else, or develop some kind of riser thingie to put them where theyd be cooled, by say case airflow, as well
On a separate note, will the Tomahawk overclocking video come out soon? Looking forward! :)
No overclocking stuff planned. Undervolting yes.
@@OC3D Oh my bad then, that's even better then! I have friends with 13/14900k CPUs hitting 100c in less than 2 seconds on their 420mm AIO.
I got this drive and was dumb enough to get it without the heat sink and it gets extremely toasty, was showing a 100C temp when really pushing it... can't find just the heat sink by itself yet.
Motherboard heatsink not cutting it?
@@OC3D nope
so in other words, if you are TRYING to make the SSD overheat, it runs just fine even with the MB heatsink? ok. thanks
If I insert SSD into the slot PCIe v5 to Intel CPU = PCI_E1 Slot Will Run at X8 Speed (slot video card)
shit
Big heatsinks are the exact reason i avoided the drive, not due to sound or cooling just the size, on my mid range board I have little space with my set up and so larger heatsinks are an absolute no go due to size of cards already installed and make it impossible to fit this type of nvme, nothing against the drive itself I generally like corsair nvme's have two 2tb mp510's and also an external 1tb mp510 from before upgrading as well as other brands, but with a HBA card the 6800XT and a nvme add in card fitting the ones with large heatsinks just not possible.
Damn yet another reason if ek released a full cover monoblock for my board i would buy it for me loop
Considering the rear ventilation holes on most cases for the PCI slots that would be a better place to pull cool air in so .. absolutely yes I would flip that Corsair fan around. This isn't some 120 / 144 mm M.2 fan.
However, the biggest gripe I would have is why doesn't Corsai use a standard fan header instead of that molex / SATA power.
Since the exhaust fans (slot coolers, gpu blower fans) are often on that side as well, you'd be pulling in hot air.
It's not a rack server with hurricane force winds, but wouldn't the rotation of the 40mm(?) fan be impeded by the airflow of the (front) case fans?
As for the power connector: maybe they're tapping from the 5V pin to keep it running quiet, and since the regular fan headers are 12V, they're not suited?
@@bjornroesbeke .. You're pulling cool air from the bottom and out the side as opposed to .. from the bottom out the top .. but still both of them through the GPU. Think bout it.
As long as a PCIE Gen 5 NVME SSD drives takes away PCIE lanes of the GPU it's doesn't make any sense..
Better thing would be that if the Manufacturers of those PCIe 5 drives Mobo's include a FAN in those cooling blocks.
I don't like watercooling the Vcore. It simply doesn't need it and you are just adding heat into your loop for no point.
Well yeah I'm glad I went for a 4 TB 990 Pro
ATX motherboards are desperately in need of an overhaul. RAM like a sail hampering airflow, huge 50mm or so power connector (need atx12vo) and the PCie drive right above the hottest component in the case
EK-Quantum Momentum² ROG Maximus Z790 Extreme D-RGB - Special Edition Monoblock is already out for ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Extreme motherboard which can be used with contact frame or delided direct-die CPU, Voltage Regulation Module (VRM), LAN controller, and primary m.2 drive.
But I should say this, it is NOT cheap, you can buy another high end motherboard with that price tag.... Too much feature and option / accessory comes with the monoblock, so high price tag is kind of understandable.
IMO, PCI-ex 5.0 SSD on a INTEL platform should be considered only IF / WHEN INTEL decides to put dedicated PCI-ex 5.0 laned for the SSD and stopes sharing bandwith with the GPU. May be with 15th gen?
We need to go back to the 2.5 inch form factor.. Its crazy to think that all super fast M.2 storage are able to cool this way..(on a motherboard)
Better put a m.2 drive in a 2.5 inch enclosure as cooling block and go back with the old cable.
I really dislike how much pci-e slot arent there anymore just because of that bad solution called m.2 drives.
How about a full cover block from bitspower, alphacool, bykski, barrow, or any other company that put out quality rather than over priced ek junk
I hate active cooling on M.2 SSDs!
Gigabyte has done a great job with their Aorus PCIe 5.0 SSDs, because they use a big, good looking, passive heatsink.
They've really lost their way on the concept of the nvme consumer drive. I think moving forward its going to have to be a 16x slot with a card with 4x4 bifrucated. Or, use the U.2 interface and have the drives in 2.5" form factors with a decent heat sink.
I’d like to see more mobo manufacturers put the Gen5 NVMe slot next to the RAM. Then you could have a heatsink without clearance issues.
I think that at some point they would have to transition the sata to U.2 or something that can at least obtain speeds in the gen 4 range.
Man I was so excited about this too that is the ugliest thing I've ever seen. IF they had to make it like that they should have at least figured out a way to pump the air directly out the back instead of into the case. Good thing I saw this video before I went to buy something thank you😊
Never thought corsair would be the ones to buy cheap Aliexpress cooler when their own last gen flagship SSD had a great quality heatsink designed in house.
I can only see true use of the 5.0 M.2s in highend machine learning and rendering environments for the next several years. With the new price point on the 4TB 4.0s, last generation is going to be what replaces 2.5 amd 3.5 inch drives in non enterprise or NAS systems completely.
PCIe 4.0 versus PCIe 5.0 M.2 game loading is within one second on most games. The only differences beyond that I've ever seen are from super cheap M.2s without a DRAM chip. Regarding the Z790s x8 GPU issue RTFM .. the PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot below (most MOBOs) the PCIe 5.0 M2 slot is also direct to CPU. Win win!
Should just be heatpiped into the OTT VRM heatsinks. Most of these snazzy [AMD] boards these days don't even need the VRM heatsinks, so plumbing the NVMe drive in seems a no=brainer to me.
E2A: Heck, it'd even be one of the very few places where the heatpipe is optimally oriented for most motherboard orientations.
I think right now PCIe 4.0 drives are the better choice. Fast enough for everything, cooler and much cheaper. PCIe 5.0 SSDs are still in its infancy.
"then the logos are upside down" 🤣🤣 OC3D indeed ;)
That really annoys me 😡
It would be less expensive, cleaner, and easier to use an add-in card for multiple M.2 drives that had dual fans to cool them.
But youd need a pcie5 slot for that if we are staying on the pcie5 conversation
@@OC3D Yes, you could bifurcate your PCIe5 x16 slots to x8/x8 on a Z790, or if you had an X670e board you could go PCIe5 x16/0/x4 or x8/x8/x4. I guess the extra PCIe5 lanes on Zen 4 help. I also don't know how long consumer grade SSDs will last if you are driving them to the max, they were meant for burst traffic usage case. I think you are moving into HEDT territory.
? The Gigabyte board isn't that good looking in the first place. With or without a Gen 5 drive I think it needs a full EK block just to cover its' blushes. 😁
Anyone remembers M.2 slots on the back of the motherboad?
Still get them on ITX motherboards
why do we overpay for the latest problems, i love pc tech and figuring out problems but having to supercool every component that should run as advertised gets to be pain in the pocket. btw i enjoy your channel , thanks
Thank you for the comment dudio
Think I will stick with gen 4. An NVME with a fan cable, come on, really? Someone should have looked at that thing dangling off it and thought "guys this has gone too far, it's time to stop."
bit ironic, the industry went to gum-stick sized drives cuz there smaller, only to need a 3.5-inch sized heatsink to cool the things, lol.
Gen 5 SSDs aren't even that much faster according to TechPowerUp. So in reality, you're paying more for almost no gains at all. Gen 4 is way more than enough
some asrock eatx boards like the 650e taichi lite have the main pcie5 nvme next to the ram slots, not above the gpu. love that.
My Z590 OC Formula was like that and the drives do get much better airflow there as well which is nice, the typical place is sort of a dead zone most of the time which doesn't help.
Simple…….they need to move the nvme slot to another location on the board.
No need to invent new stuff - Silverstone has AIO with additional side coolers stackable onto the pump. One of these could be used to cool the drive
PCIe 3 Graphics Cards barely saturated that bus. PCIe 4 Graphic's cards don't really exist. PCIe 5 is now only about M.2 and U.2 storage. No one is making Gen 5 Graphics Cards.
Any board that has the gen 5 slot near the bottom will do well. I tried my T700 on an MSI meg ace and it idled around 34 and hit 50 under max load. This was about 20 degrees cooler than other boards I tested it on where the gen 5 slot is above the GPU. Especially the Asus ones, I could not get it below 50 at all on the few I tried.
Try paste in the area between where the mobos' drive heatsink plate screws to the rest of the chunk.
I'm sorry but if a storage device needs active cooling of any kind that's a colossal fail. "Drag race" SSD performance mean's nothing anyway they don't mean a thing. PCI-E 3\4.0 drives is what people should be looking at still.
M.2s in desktop use are JOKE. U.2/U.3/Oculink exist, 2.5/3.5" exist. Why take space on motherboard again?
i'm not listening to a guy who owns two sizes of mackie monitors, like what, was the one not good enough to tell you they're terrible?
Hey dude, Ive had both for review. I prefer the 8's for larger areas tbh and they are the ones hooked up. They are not as bad as youre making out though tbh. The 8's are pretty good for my uses out here in the shed.
Why d idnt you install a video card so we could see clearance........fail
bit agressive but valid point. No need to be like that here dude
Can of black spray paint fixes his niggling text backwards problem.
Most of the time you're idling, it'll be fine, just use the mobo heatsink if you're obsessed with asthetics. If you're all about performance and don't care about asthetics or noise, use the Corsair fan heatsink.
Would void warranty....
If you want gen5 speeds with gen4 drives, fill all the slots and raid stripe 0 4x m.2 drives stripe0 and bam instantaneous gen5 speeds without the heat
😮
ɹᴉɐsɹoϽ
You forgot the Crutial T700, its PCIe GEN5 and it works just fine and has been tested many times by well known tech youtubers.
Its currently very expensive at $499.99 but still they are fast and the prices will eventually drop if those companies want the public to get their hands on their products. 🤷♀
I've not tested it so I won't talk about how others say it performs
Undervolt guide asus please 🙏
Coming soon 😊
1st
pixel density, onboard sound, sli, native throughput 8 n 8 all at once data instantly, pci16 why sound takes up pcie lanes and lowers output on video quality by wasting throughput hence why sli or a 4k gpu using onbaord sound ddr xmp 16 n 16 xmp nvidea and intel gigabyte or asrock boards back in 2017 did this in path tracing realtime on the 3d gfx today its done on cores too many lanes cant do native and lanes are not fast enough it requires compression and codecs today hence cant do native live stream 4k its fake and rendered then inserted making latency using cheap hardware reject binned from high end mono or quads they dont make anymore , because we only used half of 4k say gtx1080ti we could send 2 outputs and the sound from a say mboard with sound on that to save lanes to send at native real time to screens at 2x half a 4k 60fps today they cant do this they are not able to stream native 4k they have to store on memory uncompress then send it in parts then put it back together thus held back by latency to sell share profits up as no upgrade or hardware is good its all damaged cut down and now needs to ray trace upscale insert frames has lower colours and sound quality hence huge socket is more cpus tryinf to be one they cant they slow due to sending data thus no more gaming pcs or high end just rt creator pcs that are trying to blame devs for games when we had 4k on sli decade ago but now games have had to be recoded to run emulated controlled by cpu using ai and windows, we dont want os running we load a game in by iso n run it on gpu native at zero latency aka real sd gfx they cant do this today so rewrite games and lie, crysis was remade to make a cut down upscaled to stop folk finding out it wont run crysis original which requires a good gaming pc they turned pc back to consoles but worse res lower fps and lag but sony had the good hardware hence games and vr worked on pc too they didnt emulate under windows we ran software today they need rt ray traced hzs sound quality colour count are not talked about because if people knew a cd had higher quality and now they have to sample and compress the data to read and send then play , we went from millions of colours to 4096 in hardware lower hz needs codecs and cant do native real time and PEOPLE BOUGHT INTO THIS THINKING DLSS FPS AND NOT ONE YTBR CALLED IT OUT WHY, THEY DONT MAKE HARDWARE NOW THEY SHAVE THE BINNED AND TRY GET IT WORKING THATTS WHY ITS ALL FPS SALES AND MULTITASKING UPSCALED DLSS MEANSD IT NEEDS TO UPGRADE NOW ITS A SELLING POINT. YOU DONT CHANGE FPS OR RES IT IS THE HARDWARE AND MONITOR THAT SETS IT BECAUSE ITS FIXED TODAY WINDOWS DOWNGRADES THE RES TO PLAY ON 4K TVS BECAUSE IT CANT DO IT SO THEY EMULATE NOW, WHICH MADE IT WORSE IN QUALITY LATENCY BUT THEY HAD OLD CPUS DEFECTS FROM THE HIGH END 100 102 FABS LEFTOVER TO SELL , YOU ALL GOT LIED TO AND FRAUD TOOK PLACE. TO SELL OF THE STOCKS AND THE FACTORIES SHUT DOWN LONG AGO THEY CANT MAKE HIGH END WITHOUT SELLING THE 80% 103 104 105 16 BINNED SILICON THE FABS HYNIX CRUSADE ASROCK GIGABYTE MONO ENDED AND 2ND HAND IS EXPENSIVE YOU DONT GAME IN WINDOWS YOU EMULATE AND RUIN THE QUALITY, A PC CAN BE BIOS CONTROLLED BY FLASH TO RUN ANY CONSOLE NOT EMULATING BECASUE ITS A PC TOO IS A CONSOLE THE HARDWARE USED TO GET BETTER NOW IT GETS WORSE. its all 2d rendered to look like 3d now not how we should do it, we used to do complex realtime rendering called true ray tracing now its done in memory slower cheaper laggy to make money the games need to upgrade to catch up with 2016 hardware now they downgrade to run on rt amd and all high end fabs gaming boards are not sold , hence remasters are downgrades to us holding 2017 high end tier hardware when we can run the original better and not emulate under windows we run the game .
first world entitlement and hyperbole is out of control
You make some great videos , this was NOT one of them.;-)
Please mark the videos where you get greasy about design inside a closed box, so that one can avoid wasting time on them.
My PC is a workhorse and it have no glass anywhere.
Nitpicking poor made ssd, "the logo is upside down" GET A LIFE BRO
I'd argue manufacturers love to have their logo's displayed proudly and correctly. It's free advertising.
Casemodding might not be as popular as it used to be, but looks do matter when you're spending time building a neat PC.
^^^He knows.
Clearly the answer is to get some modding company to provide an LN2 solution where we can all invest in cryo cooling with external LN2 tank. Another wacky video offering daft solutions to a real engineering problem. next platform 2025 coming to the rescue.