Thanks for the request - we have had this request many times and i'm not willing to spend money to review a chinese knock off of a genuine product - if the manufacturer wants a review, he is welcome to send the turbo to us for a side by side comparison and disassembly side by side to the original and i'm happy to do this comparison. The Aeroflow units i have limited knowledge on, same thing goes, if they willing to ship a unit to us, ill doe the comparison no problem at all.
There will always be a tolerance axially - and radially. This will change over time with predicted wear in the bearing cartridge. IF there is abnormal wear sustained in the cartridge, this will change, and if excessive, you will have contact made between the rotating assembly and the mating end housings.
can you do a video to explain old tech turbo and newer deisigns? for example the ct26 used in the older land cruisers (1hz) . some ppl are still adamant that the old ct26 turbo is still the most suitable turbo for this engine , maybe u can go into the compressor and turbine blades deisgn and how they differ between old and new type?
Thats great question and will make for a great video BUT will spark ALOT of controversy - many opinions will fly and in my opinion will be counter productive. The points i will make though are the following - -- What are you comparing the CT26 ( which is a specific model turbo from a specific engine) to exactly? -- Its not fair/possible to compare this to a universal performance based turbocharger that is designed for a range of engine sizes and P2C ratios..... It will be apples with oranges. -- Always use the compressor maps and turbine pressure maps to compare turbos, these are the "spec sheets" which show the facts about the units, and then plot your engines specific data onto these maps to see what turbo is best suited to that specific engine/application.
@@TurboDirectSAHas anyone evey welded a turbo shaft nut to the tip of the shaft it self ? I need to do this to my shaft because my torque rench didn't register 2.1nm and now my nut has pushed past the turbo shaft thread and the nut is now pushing past it's normal clearance on the bearing. Will a tack weld on the shaft hold up lol 😂
Thanks for the comment - im always keen to entertain the nay sayers, because many of them follow what we do, just to comment which usually lands them into a conversation our of their depths, and they make fools of themselves - however you have the easily misled out there who actually believe the absurd things that come out of the opinionated freakshows with ridiculous comments -- :-) But hey, happy to hear others are entertained by similar.
Guessing oil starved caused it but could excessive back pressure caused by a bent or smashed exhaust pipe cause much higher thrust load onto the bearing mechanism? Could be surge as well
It was actually oil contamination which caused accelerated wear in the bearing system and allowed the wheels to make contact with the end housings which firstly stopped the rotating assembly (spat the nut off) and then sheared the shaft.
@@u3b93 There are custom made reservoirs which fabricators have made before which have external electric oil pumps and a gauge installed to lubricate the turbocharger outside of the engine, however this is tricky business for various reasons. As the engine HP and RPM changes, you need to change the supply of lubrication to the turbo accordingly - get this wrong and you in trouble....... there are also other factors which govern risk with this type of setup - making it not really worthwhile to be honest.
Excellent question - here is what happens. As the nut loosens, it will usually associated with a lack of lubrication or a lubrication related problem. In journal bearing turbochargers, if the rotating assembly comes to a sudden stop, this will loosen the shaft nut. Keep this in mind, ill come back to this shortly. A seizure in the bearing system from a lack of lubrication (oil starvation) will create a sudden stop or slow in the rotating assembly which will loosen the nut, and as the rotating assembly rotates again, the nut will re-tighten as you saw in the video. Keep in mind a seizure is unlike a 2 stroke engine which comes to a dead stop and remains in a seized stated until it cools down, freeing up the piston/s again. The turbocharger seizes, and the thing molten layer of the bearing material will seize/swipe itself onto the mating component (Shaft running face, or thrust collar, or spacer etc) and then once the material has swiped onto the mating surface (aka material transfer) the rotating assembly starts to turn again. NOW - the nut loosens, which frees up the rotating assembly and almost always the orientation between the compressor wheel and shaft changes. Then the nut tightens up again, BUT the rotating assembly is now out of balance ..... the bearing system will not last very long in this state, and it will usually become audible. What you will more than likely also find is that the rotating assembly once free'd up with the loosened shaft nut, will thrust the turbine and/or compressor wheel into the mating end housing, which will cause damage to the blades. The other occurrence will be the nut loosens off of the shaft and gets sucked back into the compressor wheel inducer blades once the rotating assembly starts to rotate again, damaging the wheel. In this case most 'mechanics' will claim warranty as we never tightened the shaft nut, and it caused damage to the compressor wheel blades..... very common claim when turbochargers are not primed, or not primed correctly. I will have to make another video on this to explain it in more detail for you - but hope this sheds some light.
9:50 I'm gonna guess this turbo got oil starved and seized. The nut came off when the shaft stopped rotating and the air flowing over the compressor wheel actually forced it to rotate opposite of normal and loosen the nut. When the nut came loose, the compressor wheel and turbine actually pushed outward in opposite directions, freeing the shaft until the compressor wheel spinning on the shaft heated up and seized again. Combined with the turbine contacting the housing and the wheels spinning opposite directions, the shaft snapped from the opposite twisting forces. Bottom line, the nut loosening was a consequence of oil starvation, and the rest was cascading failure. Or it could be 1:30AM and I'm talking nonsense.
no it suffered oil contamination, which accelerated the wear in the bearing system and allowed the contact to be made between the end housings and the wheels which brought a sudden and immediate stop to the rotating assembly which spat the nut off and sheared the shaft in the same event.
They are cast into a mould by melting the material and pouring it into a mould and once it cools it hardens and then its machined to the finished sizes, tolerances etc
When you install the shaft nut, it should turn onto the shaft freely, and butt up against the compressor wheel nose. Once this happens, you tighten the nut to a torque value depending on the family of the turbocharger. If you are not able to get the nut onto the shaft, then maybe the shaft is damaged or the thread itself is damaged. Also remember the nuts tighten in the opposite direction to normal rotation of the turbo.
This is not true in some cases. Old kkk k26 turbos, from old Audi 2.2 10v turbo engines, and as far as I know, few more k26s and k27s too had that problem. Old ones had the nut screwed clockwise - the same direction that the compressor wheel spins. Guess thats the problem... These turbos are operating for years with no problems when left at stock boost levels, but when we push them to their limits they often unscrew. I had one k26 and one k27 that did that and know of many more.
I disagree - if you provide me with the part# i will confirm this in writing with BW for you. There has never been a time that the shaft nut tightens in the same direction of rotation - this turbo will not last 2 minutes under any acceleration condition.
@@TurboDirectSA I have that blown kkk k26 in front of my eyes in my workshop right now :) It sat previously in an Audi 100 quattro (C3) with a 2.2 10V turbo engine(engine code MC). The nut tightenes clockwise :) K26 lasted years making about 160HP when stock and then lasted few dyno pulls making 270 and spitting the nut :) I also have a blown K26/27 that made 360HP and then spit the nut on the way home... Also tightened clockwise.
@@noorec I have stock of the original turbocharger from the Audi Quattro - and the nut most definitely tightens opposite to the direction of the compressor wheel rotation. Please share the part# if possible so i can pull this from stock and show you. There are many variations of the different model turbos, but in my 25years of experience i have never come across any shaft nut that tightens in the same direction of rotation as the direction of compressor rotation. This is the oldest fallacy that exists in the turbo game - thats how i know.
@@TurboDirectSA I just tell you what I see here and what I have seen. This iss a common/known problem with old audi k26s. Numbers on the k26, from the plate at the compressor housing: 035 145703 L K26 88 446 0695 5326 970 6411
@@noorec Thanks for the info- i can confirm 100% that this shaft fits into 84 turbo variants and every one of them is left hand thread. the compressor rotates clockwise - the nut tightens opposite to direction of compressor rotation. I also sent an email to BorgWarner asking to confirm that if there wasnt a special case where the turbo was in fact made with this tightening orientation - i have not had a response as yet. The original shaft part# was 53261202107, then replaced by the -2119 and then replaced by the -5002 and finally replaced by the -5017 - all shafts are identical according to the technical specifications we have access to online through BorgWarner. Once i hear back from Borg - ill share their comments with you also.
Nice explanation
Thouroughly enjoying these vids👍🏻👌🏻
Cheers.
Thanks for the feedback - ill keep em coming.
Very cool, you don't know until ya know. 🤷♂️ Appreciate these vids, really learning alot every time.
Glad to hear this - ill keep em coming.
100 % correct. 👍😎
That was really interesting.
Thank you for the compliment
When I try loosen the stiffness of the impeller and turned the nut 50 times it won’t come off right?
Could you please do a review of Pulsar turbos and Aeroflow turbos? These 2 brands are becoming popular in the budget/cheaper range turbos in Australia
Thanks for the request - we have had this request many times and i'm not willing to spend money to review a chinese knock off of a genuine product - if the manufacturer wants a review, he is welcome to send the turbo to us for a side by side comparison and disassembly side by side to the original and i'm happy to do this comparison.
The Aeroflow units i have limited knowledge on, same thing goes, if they willing to ship a unit to us, ill doe the comparison no problem at all.
Great to know and great explanation. I have one question how much back and forth play should the turbine have?
Thanks
There will always be a tolerance axially - and radially. This will change over time with predicted wear in the bearing cartridge. IF there is abnormal wear sustained in the cartridge, this will change, and if excessive, you will have contact made between the rotating assembly and the mating end housings.
can you do a video to explain old tech turbo and newer deisigns? for example the ct26 used in the older land cruisers (1hz) . some ppl are still adamant that the old ct26 turbo is still the most suitable turbo for this engine , maybe u can go into the compressor and turbine blades deisgn and how they differ between old and new type?
Thats great question and will make for a great video BUT will spark ALOT of controversy - many opinions will fly and in my opinion will be counter productive. The points i will make though are the following -
-- What are you comparing the CT26 ( which is a specific model turbo from a specific engine) to exactly?
-- Its not fair/possible to compare this to a universal performance based turbocharger that is designed for a range of engine sizes and P2C ratios..... It will be apples with oranges.
-- Always use the compressor maps and turbine pressure maps to compare turbos, these are the "spec sheets" which show the facts about the units, and then plot your engines specific data onto these maps to see what turbo is best suited to that specific engine/application.
@@TurboDirectSAHas anyone evey welded a turbo shaft nut to the tip of the shaft it self ? I need to do this to my shaft because my torque rench didn't register 2.1nm and now my nut has pushed past the turbo shaft thread and the nut is now pushing past it's normal clearance on the bearing. Will a tack weld on the shaft hold up lol 😂
This is like CSI, but for turbochargers.
LOL -- as long as you enjoy it.
So what is the cause when half the shaft with the nut breaks off
Many failure mechanisms can cause a shaft nut to break - depending on the turbo and bearing system, the shaft could break at the neck or shoulder.
I sense your frustration with the nay sayers😂. Dont worry, I have to deal with the same nonsense when explaining my findings.
Thanks for the comment - im always keen to entertain the nay sayers, because many of them follow what we do, just to comment which usually lands them into a conversation our of their depths, and they make fools of themselves - however you have the easily misled out there who actually believe the absurd things that come out of the opinionated freakshows with ridiculous comments -- :-) But hey, happy to hear others are entertained by similar.
Guessing oil starved caused it but could excessive back pressure caused by a bent or smashed exhaust pipe cause much higher thrust load onto the bearing mechanism? Could be surge as well
It was actually oil contamination which caused accelerated wear in the bearing system and allowed the wheels to make contact with the end housings which firstly stopped the rotating assembly (spat the nut off) and then sheared the shaft.
@@TurboDirectSA I have a newbie question, do you turbo setups which have separate oil lubrication circuits from the engine?
@@u3b93 There are custom made reservoirs which fabricators have made before which have external electric oil pumps and a gauge installed to lubricate the turbocharger outside of the engine, however this is tricky business for various reasons. As the engine HP and RPM changes, you need to change the supply of lubrication to the turbo accordingly - get this wrong and you in trouble....... there are also other factors which govern risk with this type of setup - making it not really worthwhile to be honest.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks
@@u3b93 Pleasure
what if the nut loosens just barely and i notice it and tighten it again. is turbo still good? or does it need replacement.
Excellent question - here is what happens. As the nut loosens, it will usually associated with a lack of lubrication or a lubrication related problem. In journal bearing turbochargers, if the rotating assembly comes to a sudden stop, this will loosen the shaft nut. Keep this in mind, ill come back to this shortly. A seizure in the bearing system from a lack of lubrication (oil starvation) will create a sudden stop or slow in the rotating assembly which will loosen the nut, and as the rotating assembly rotates again, the nut will re-tighten as you saw in the video. Keep in mind a seizure is unlike a 2 stroke engine which comes to a dead stop and remains in a seized stated until it cools down, freeing up the piston/s again. The turbocharger seizes, and the thing molten layer of the bearing material will seize/swipe itself onto the mating component (Shaft running face, or thrust collar, or spacer etc) and then once the material has swiped onto the mating surface (aka material transfer) the rotating assembly starts to turn again.
NOW - the nut loosens, which frees up the rotating assembly and almost always the orientation between the compressor wheel and shaft changes. Then the nut tightens up again, BUT the rotating assembly is now out of balance ..... the bearing system will not last very long in this state, and it will usually become audible.
What you will more than likely also find is that the rotating assembly once free'd up with the loosened shaft nut, will thrust the turbine and/or compressor wheel into the mating end housing, which will cause damage to the blades.
The other occurrence will be the nut loosens off of the shaft and gets sucked back into the compressor wheel inducer blades once the rotating assembly starts to rotate again, damaging the wheel. In this case most 'mechanics' will claim warranty as we never tightened the shaft nut, and it caused damage to the compressor wheel blades..... very common claim when turbochargers are not primed, or not primed correctly. I will have to make another video on this to explain it in more detail for you - but hope this sheds some light.
9:50 I'm gonna guess this turbo got oil starved and seized. The nut came off when the shaft stopped rotating and the air flowing over the compressor wheel actually forced it to rotate opposite of normal and loosen the nut. When the nut came loose, the compressor wheel and turbine actually pushed outward in opposite directions, freeing the shaft until the compressor wheel spinning on the shaft heated up and seized again. Combined with the turbine contacting the housing and the wheels spinning opposite directions, the shaft snapped from the opposite twisting forces. Bottom line, the nut loosening was a consequence of oil starvation, and the rest was cascading failure. Or it could be 1:30AM and I'm talking nonsense.
Seems I may be extrapolating too much, but at least my thinking is in the right direction. Thanks for the awesome videos!
no it suffered oil contamination, which accelerated the wear in the bearing system and allowed the contact to be made between the end housings and the wheels which brought a sudden and immediate stop to the rotating assembly which spat the nut off and sheared the shaft in the same event.
@@TurboDirectSA Ah very cool! Was fun to speculate. :D
@@802Garage Glad you enjoy
how are the turbine housing made?
They are cast into a mould by melting the material and pouring it into a mould and once it cools it hardens and then its machined to the finished sizes, tolerances etc
Cool
what about turbo flirting or no blow off valve?
can it lose the nout
No it cannot - its not bringing the turbo to a sudden and complete stop.
i am re-assmbling turbo when i do up turbo shaft , nut it locks up have i done something wrong.
When you install the shaft nut, it should turn onto the shaft freely, and butt up against the compressor wheel nose. Once this happens, you tighten the nut to a torque value depending on the family of the turbocharger.
If you are not able to get the nut onto the shaft, then maybe the shaft is damaged or the thread itself is damaged. Also remember the nuts tighten in the opposite direction to normal rotation of the turbo.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks Ive defiantly done something wrong as after Ive tightened nut turbo impellers wont budge. wish i could show you.
@@MrStephen777 Buddy have you not cross threaded it? Send me a video on info@turbodirect.co.za ill take a look and advise from there.
@@TurboDirectSA couldent send the video as email said it was too big, will send some images somehow
@@MrStephen777 send it on a wetransfer
I tightened my blow off valve a few months ago now last week my nut dropped while driving and destroyed just like this
This is not true in some cases.
Old kkk k26 turbos, from old Audi 2.2 10v turbo engines, and as far as I know, few more k26s and k27s too had that problem. Old ones had the nut screwed clockwise - the same direction that the compressor wheel spins. Guess thats the problem...
These turbos are operating for years with no problems when left at stock boost levels, but when we push them to their limits they often unscrew. I had one k26 and one k27 that did that and know of many more.
I disagree - if you provide me with the part# i will confirm this in writing with BW for you. There has never been a time that the shaft nut tightens in the same direction of rotation - this turbo will not last 2 minutes under any acceleration condition.
@@TurboDirectSA I have that blown kkk k26 in front of my eyes in my workshop right now :) It sat previously in an Audi 100 quattro (C3) with a 2.2 10V turbo engine(engine code MC). The nut tightenes clockwise :)
K26 lasted years making about 160HP when stock and then lasted few dyno pulls making 270 and spitting the nut :)
I also have a blown K26/27 that made 360HP and then spit the nut on the way home... Also tightened clockwise.
@@noorec I have stock of the original turbocharger from the Audi Quattro - and the nut most definitely tightens opposite to the direction of the compressor wheel rotation. Please share the part# if possible so i can pull this from stock and show you. There are many variations of the different model turbos, but in my 25years of experience i have never come across any shaft nut that tightens in the same direction of rotation as the direction of compressor rotation. This is the oldest fallacy that exists in the turbo game - thats how i know.
@@TurboDirectSA I just tell you what I see here and what I have seen. This iss a common/known problem with old audi k26s.
Numbers on the k26, from the plate at the compressor housing:
035 145703 L
K26
88 446 0695
5326 970 6411
@@noorec Thanks for the info- i can confirm 100% that this shaft fits into 84 turbo variants and every one of them is left hand thread. the compressor rotates clockwise - the nut tightens opposite to direction of compressor rotation. I also sent an email to BorgWarner asking to confirm that if there wasnt a special case where the turbo was in fact made with this tightening orientation - i have not had a response as yet.
The original shaft part# was 53261202107, then replaced by the -2119 and then replaced by the -5002 and finally replaced by the -5017 - all shafts are identical according to the technical specifications we have access to online through BorgWarner.
Once i hear back from Borg - ill share their comments with you also.