I really like this kind of content where you discuss new developments in the industry that are actually interesting for normal people. There's a general lack of bike news that isn't focused on road racing or $10k "gravel" bikes with integrated handlebars and electronic shifting...
I can't believe I'm seeing Shimano on the verge of releasing a 9-speed group with 26-40 chainrings..... Maybe even with a 46t cassette.... This is the dream....
@@veganpotterthevegan - Being stronger or more durable has nothing to do with it. I prefer them for touring because 9 speed cassettes are easier to find all over the world and CONSIDERABLY cheaper than cassettes with a more speeds. When you're riding the distances involved in long-term touring and on a heavy bike to boot, those things matter. Lower speeds are also less finicky to adjust and it's much easier to get smooth shifting than on a 12-speed for example - Especially in adverse conditions. I love the 12-speed drivetrain on my mountain bike, but for touring? No way.
@@VeloObscura But in this case the new 9 speed cassettes have the same cog spacing as the 11 speed cassettes so I don't think they'd be any easier for adjustment. It also sounds like that means you wouldn't be able to use existing 9 speed cassettes with this new 9 speed rear derailleur since it's basically an 11 speed cassette with two of the cogs removed.
These new CUES derailleurs will only work with linkglide cassettes and now all cassettes will use 11 speed cog spacing. So you are even more locked into the Shimano ecosystem with no option to source parts from places like Microshift or S-Ride etc...
I can picture a meeting room at Shimano where the execs and engineers are reviewing Russ' videos for "new" ideas. They had to call it "Lifestyle" because Party Pace was already taken.
Glad to see this..and you covering it Russ! Not sure if anyone else has highlighted this..doesn’t this feel like microSHIFT Advent X territory? I love mine and was glad to see your appreciation of it too, in past videos. Affordable, easy and just works.
I'm OK with being in the "lifestyle" category. Cycling isn't just a sport I participate in on weekends or a hobby for when I'm bored. It is very much a lifestyle. So, yeah, that fits.
I think the acknowledgement that race components don't anymore scale to a good regular rider experience is a good development for most cyclists out there.
Russ being honest : "I just want a wider pizza !!!" :-) I love that 40/26 crank, looks like Shimano finally listened to us "lifestyle" cyclist. I love this type of content, and I hope you can get your hands on a Cues groupset soon for review.
Ive used sram cassettes the most bcoz you can take them apart and then mix and match the cogs to create the ratios that work best for you. as long u have the correct spacers, u can mix sram cogs from 8-11 speed cassette applications. And all sram shifters and RD can be mixed and matched too while also providing better shifting even from the entry level sets
this is cool stuff. i agree with russ that its a response to microshift coming in but i also wonder how much is a response to pandemic bike part shortages. this kinda cross compatibility will make specc-ing oem parts way way easier for shimano when you can mix and match based on what you have around. all in all, good for everyone i think
If I'm understanding this right it sounds like great news if you're working strictly with Shimano components but its going to completely destroy cross compatibility between brands in both the shifter and drive train - depending on what the pull ratio is it could mean only using 11speed derailers and shifters from other brands or none at all unless they shift to mimic new shimano ratio. And while a sram or microshift drivetrain will use 9 or 10 speed width chains and cassettes, shimano will use expressy 11speed - so for me running a bicycle reconditioning workshop it sounds like yet another part to have to stock to accommodate newer bikes and the overall cost of repairs going up and possibly then the overall cost of the end bike - same goes for their switch to cartridge bearings in the hubs
I saw a post about CUES recently and couldn’t believe my eyes. Figured you’d be excited too, so thanks for jumping on with your take. Will be watching this space for developments!!
Russ, great video bud. Really into this because it’s something for everyone to get excited about and you yourself are excited about it and it’s not just manufactured hype. Thanks for keeping it real, as always.
I love Advant X from Microshift. Works perfectly all the time. On my other bikes I have a conglomeration of Shimano levels and such and they all work great. Even with off branded cranks and the likes. I dont know how this new direction will affect me, as I dont plan to buy SRAM or Shimano any longer if I can get Microshift for half or lower. My 10 speed Advant X derailleur has a clutch also. Not too bad for 60 bucks!
I was an early Microshift AdventX user... and I agree, works really well.....but just the new Linkglide tech on these cassettes will ensure that CUES outperforms in the shifting department...
Would be very interested to see if those cranksets are fully riveted or if they use a direct mount chainring system like 12 speed shimano mtb stuff does currently I believe Deore and SLX chainrings are riveted to a spider that is then a direct mount to the crank arm, they look very similar in design to the cues cranks
I guess it's time for me to start saving for a bike with the Cues 2x9. I've lived with this free 3x7 MEGARANGE for so long and any upgrade would require a new bike anyway. Hopfully Decathlon spits one of these out that isn't expensive, i've got mountain roads to explore lol. edit: Now that I think about it, if it costs less for the groupset and wheels than a whole bike, and it fits in my 135mm dropouts, this bike might get another decade or two.
@@charlcoetzee93 I've had a lot of fun working on it so far. Hit a roadblock when looking at the groupset upgrade though, the CUES may have broken that. The fact that they have square taper models has me jazzed.
Cues will NOT reduce the range and amount of spares we will need to cary in our shops. It will increase, as we still need parts for all the old stuff. It's getting pretty wild.
This 100%. 10 speed tended to be a bit of a pain but everything 9 speed down was always compatible, and as for Shimano going on about how the groups can all use the same chain, it doesn't really matter, I've seen 10/11 chains work perfectly on 8 speed drivetrains. The shop I'm in already switched to SRAM for a lot of the casettes because the ones Shimano made were far poorer in quality, I can imagine almost everything now that's still compatible with the old stuff will be cheaply made garbage, forcing more people who still run older models to buy new.
I wonder if this is for manufacturing streamlining, make everything out of 11s parts (cassette cogs, chainrings, chains) with the same pull ratios, then just less cogs for the 9s and 10s options along with less ratchet teeth in the right shifter.
I’m now more convinced than ever that a 12 speed mechanical “road” groupset is to be announced before the end of the year though it won’t be what many people hoped for, instead it will take it’s Cues (pun intended) from this announcement and be a combined replacement for the remaining higher end MTB components and GRX on the gravel side, I would also expect there to be a Di2 version as well, I just hope Shimano has a better name for it
Saw the CUES intro on my Shimano STEC and I was absolutely astounded! Linkglide? On a 9 speed? With a clutch (potentially)??? Dude I’m so fuckin excited, if they have something I like imma get some components for my older MTB!
Good news....affordable 46 - 30 and the reunification of drop and flat bar. Prices seem good...no doubt spurred by the new Chinese brands undercutting them..a good contrast with the GRX stuff which seemed way too expensive when it came out (in comparison with the Alivio 3 x 9 I use for touring!)
I have an old Surly Pacer with 7 speed XT on it right now that has been itching for some upgrades. This seems like it might fit the bill and the budget.
I like content like this, especially when it's this topical. I see a lot of hate online for Cues, but all I can feel is excited for the possibilities. Sealed bearing hubs, too! Now, if we can only get some of it in Korea. I bet we'll see it permanently sold out and will need to buy from Chinese sellers, though. Shimano really neglects the Korean market.
Yeah! I kinda like the Linkglide. I would sacrifice some weight for durability. I agree that front chain rings should not be riveted. I also agree that for those who want them, we should not get rid of the front derailleur option. I too want range and that is why one of my bikes has the Pinion P18 which has good range. I also have a MTB with a huge pancake cassette. It is a 1 X 12 though. My Pinion bike is for touring cuz the MTB does not have a lot of carrying capacity.
I think I ditched the front derailleur for a 1x because of Russ’s videos a couple of years ago 😂. I like the simplicity and it works for me. I’m not riding around bike mountains needing low gears or racing fast with high gears.
Thanks Russ, all good information. Up until I started watching RUclips a couple of years ago I didn't know what a groupset was and I've been cycling for 50+ years. I'm still happily ignorant about clutch derailleurs, cassettes and everything else for bikes popularized after 1980. I love your use of friction shifting but I've gone one step further and ride single speed and 3-speed hub geared bikes. It's bliss and its cheap but somehow the wheels keep turning.
Shimano's marketing department have always been complete weirdos. There was Exage back in the 80s and 90s, a little above Alivio quality stuff but they came up with name by combining Excite and Age. Dura-Ace was durable and ace, Tourney was tour and journey, the list goes on. If you really want a laugh at marketing even worse and more patronizing that "lifestyle" have a look at their old Santé brochure, it was described as having a "high tech look of pure precision" and it was suggested that it would make the perfect gift for friends and family.
I imagine drop bar options will still keep the standard 50/34 compact option, (I hope so anyway, I ride on the road and 50/34 is perfect for me). Would also like to see the option for Rim brakes still on drops.
This is certainly a way for shimano to try and stay a leader in the bike market. Most consumers, in my experience, do not know about, or care about the levels of consumer grade shift levels. Affordability and reliability is all that matters. We are excited to welcome this new age of Shimano as long as there is some backward compatibility and entry level chain prices in their new (11 speed fits) philosophy yet entry level people do like to spend 11 speed chain prices.
I really hope this 1X9 is both wide range and works with a friction thumb shifter. Would it be to much to ask that it come in silver? Silver parts are so much classier and go with any color frame.
I would love to have any of the 2x option right now. But it looks like I would still have to wait a long time and probably going to be hard to find stock when it comes out.
Totally out of the main subject of the video, but i've always wondered the reason you've replaced your Salsa Vaya. I currently own a 2012 model, had it since 2016 and it have been one of my favorite bikes. Right now I am in the need to get rid of some of my bikes due to an upcoming move and lack of space and my Vaya is possible my best choice of all my bikes, was there a particular reason to replace it or it was only an "age" issue? Greetings from Tijuana Mexico!
Looks to me like the lower end (aka 9 speed) stuff has pressed cranksets, which tells me they will probably be cheap and heavy unfortunately. I like the look of the stuff from what I can see online, but I will have to see what it looks like in person. I want the lower geared cranksets, and I want the compatibility. But I still want decent quality stuff. I've been pretty impressed with the Sora and Tiagra groups of late, so keeping an open mind. Thanks for the details Russ! Lifestyle or not, you are defintely my people!
Id love to see a groupset with 9 speeds that is actually decently made. Tiagra was nice stuff, especially at that price point but I doubt the new stuff will be as nice, especially those riveted chainsets. Time to start looking at campy's old compact chainsets to get lower gears.
I want better low gearing on my trek 920 for off-road touring. I can't figure out how to make it happen without buying all new stuff. Maybe mixing and matching bits will work even if it doesn't say so. I didn't think of that. 100% yes to wider gear range!!
You just need to buy a new casette ( one that is fully disassemblable), some 0.1mm spacers. Measure how much narrower the new rings are than the old ones and place these spacers on either side accordingly. The put the old spacers between the new, larger rings when putting it on your freehub and now you have more range on your old drivetrain and it cost one casette and some spacers.
1x drive trains are great for kids bikes. It's much easier to teach them to use gears if they've only got to worry about one control. Still hoping for a reasonable priced 1x12 gravel setup to come at some point
One possible downside: They'll be forced to make the cranks really wide to fit all kinds of frames. I'm not too exited about the cranks, but the drivetrain compatibility sounds nice.
Yes, I totally hated when Shimano started to make all their 3x mtb cranks with 50mm chainlines. Once I installed an older 47.5, things just felt a lot better (135mm rear spacing). I am going to assume that rim brake bikes might still need custom parts from people like White Industries.
I want a 50/34 crankset that works with a 10-52 cassette and is compatible with both flat bars and drop bars. Throw in a clutch derailleur and hydraulic brakes, and I’ll buy two group sets right now!
@@vaska00762 Can't you (at least currently) use the same mechanical road shifter for both rim and disc brakes? So all you would need to do is source a rim brake caliper.
@@barrytantlinger1033 Currently? Yes. The only issue is that you need to ensure that brake cable pull is correct. Some mechanical disc calipers are calibrated to 15mm linear pull (like Avid BB5), and others might be designed for 7mm (or Shimano SLR 8mm). I've noticed that SRAM never actually ever specifies their mechanical brake pull. But if the trend to move to hydraulic takes over, then I have no idea what happens next. This is where the last of the hydraulic rim brakes might have a niche, but Magura makes use of their own proprietary mineral oil. I've heard of Shigura setups, but I don't know if mixed SRAM & Magura (Sragura?) would ever be a thing, particularly since there's yet to be anything from SRAM for road mineral oil (to my knowledge). If Avid drops the mechanical calipers and the lower end Shimano stuff is eliminated, then idk where the future for mechanic disc will be, at least outside of Chinese parts of questionable quality and cottage industry parts that will probably be unobtainable.
I live in Austria one of my home trails has some rough parts l. When I am riding my enduro 170mm front, 165mm rear the chain drops even with a chain guide. Back in the day with two and three chainrings it was horrible, you dropped the chain constantly. Trails here are more like Downhill Trails. roots rocks drops, some parts so steep its harder to walk then to ride.
Interesting stuff indeed. Over the last 10 years I have kept to 9 speed for budget builds exactly because of compatability between road and mtb gearing ratios. Still, maybe too little too late with chinese companies like Siensah now becoming really interesting alternatives.
Good video, nice critical take. Excited for this development. As an average casual bike packer I hardly ever reach 40kph / 25mph on my own power so having a 50/11 top gear is way overkill and makes half my gears redundant. Currently running a 36/11 as top gear on one bike and a 38/12 on another. Really hope to see less forced incompatibility and obsolescence from these brands in future
I feel they have learnt from their electronic tiers that share most of the internals/electric gubbins, having only different materials or available functions at the differing price points. This is the one 11 speed group with different materials and a few cassettes missing some cogs. R&D streamlined to electric 12 speed + mechanical 11 speed.
This will also break 9 and 10 speed cross brand compatibility as well as current 9 and 10 speed Shimano. Cues is basically 11-speed shimano mechanical Shimano with fewer clicks in the shifter and gears on the cassette. This is because the cassette is spaced for an 11-speed, so switching to Cues will mean a new cassette and a chain. I can't help but think this *might* be intentional, because this also means you have to go to Shimano for their Cues cassette for 9 and 10 speed. Additionally, there's no mismatching of rear derailuers and shifters for 9 and 10 speed (if you like clicks) between brands.
Wouldn't hold my breath on that. Cutting threads is expensive and in order to get the clearances right to fit all of what's needed around the crank shaft you need higher grade materials. Most likely these chain rings are simply pressed on in the factory and non-removable for mere mortals like other models among Shimano's low budget HT2 cranks.
God. Very much agreed that that the 26-40 and wider range in the back would be the best for a bikepacking-capable all-arounder. It’s really impossible to have bike that won’t spin out with some unloaded road riding AND is fully bikepacking capable, without a nice front derailleur. Lol.
I completely agree! More Range Please!! my gravel bike is 34/50 x 11/40 using a wolf tooth. and obviously can't use every gear EG big front big back.. but its fairly close think its big front and 3 down the back is fully extended. anywho really agree though would love a double with super wide range.
I wonder what the clearance and specification will need to be for road/gravel/mountain bikes. Especially when it comes to clearance with the 26 or 22 small rings. Depending on that, might consider fitting my Klein road bike with this new group set as an adventure Sunday bike.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Hi Russ, I appreciate that you’ve done vids on this in the past, but is there a manufacturer of chainring you have a preference for? I’ve bought a nice tourer/rando which at some point has been converted from a triple to a ‘race double’. I’m talking 1980’s TdF gearing 😳 The obvious answer is to convert back to a triple, but your double solution seems very appealing 😀
I would add - What is the chainline specifications for the cranksets? Are these groupsets going to be designed for wider disc hub spacings or will there be choices for rim brake bikes?
9:20 Yeah, Linkglide needs to be beefier because it was originally intended for e-bikes. I guess the idea here is to have a unified component range for human and battery-powered bikes.
It's really about getting rid of too many product lines and simplifying so that inventory management will be easier for legacy products. By having one line for 9-11 speed, mountain and road, the bike shops can work with fewer parts and make things easier for the customer wanting a fix for their commuter bike. The chain is just 11 speed. Only the outer width of the chains were different, and having a thinner one does not make it incompatible. I think this is a good idea because there's no need to have so many different product lines and it will be easier for servicing in the future.
So, if you race a bicycle for a living, training for that every day, you don't use the "lifestyle range" of cassettes, but if you have a hybrid bicycle that collects dust in your garage all but the 3 or 4 days you get out on in summer, you do want to go with the "lifestyle range" of cassettes... did I get that right?
A German travel cyclist has been traveling the world on a touring bike with the Altus Groupset for 10 years. Without having replaced rear derailleur, front derailleur or shifters. Since now probably over 100.000km/62.000mls. Also cheaper groups work and last. They just weigh more. If you ask him about it, he will tell you that maintance is the key.
Nothing wrong with the "quality" of Alivio its just heavy -ish, Tourney is the only Shimano group that is best avoided it functions fine but wears out too fast and makes it a bit of a false economy.
@@veganpotterthevegan Shimano Shadow rear derailleurs with Altus, Acera and Alivio are functionally identical; the only difference is the plastic body which Shimano uses to make the identical RD's look different.
So more options? Any chance they make crank arms in small lengths? 170 or 175 is utterly ridiculous on xs size bikes , we short riders need 160mm ! 165mm is a rarity but even that is to long . For this reason I have given up .
I really like this kind of content where you discuss new developments in the industry that are actually interesting for normal people. There's a general lack of bike news that isn't focused on road racing or $10k "gravel" bikes with integrated handlebars and electronic shifting...
This is exactly perfect for me to upgrade my MIL's Trek Marlin5.
Relevant to us!
Not everyday do you see updates to bottom shelf tech that is worth the attention
This! Exactly
I can't believe I'm seeing Shimano on the verge of releasing a 9-speed group with 26-40 chainrings..... Maybe even with a 46t cassette.... This is the dream....
@@veganpotterthevegan - Being stronger or more durable has nothing to do with it.
I prefer them for touring because 9 speed cassettes are easier to find all over the world and CONSIDERABLY cheaper than cassettes with a more speeds. When you're riding the distances involved in long-term touring and on a heavy bike to boot, those things matter.
Lower speeds are also less finicky to adjust and it's much easier to get smooth shifting than on a 12-speed for example - Especially in adverse conditions.
I love the 12-speed drivetrain on my mountain bike, but for touring? No way.
@@VeloObscura But in this case the new 9 speed cassettes have the same cog spacing as the 11 speed cassettes so I don't think they'd be any easier for adjustment. It also sounds like that means you wouldn't be able to use existing 9 speed cassettes with this new 9 speed rear derailleur since it's basically an 11 speed cassette with two of the cogs removed.
@@VeloObscura The question would be how well the CUES cassettes will play with non CUES chains and derailleurs....
These new CUES derailleurs will only work with linkglide cassettes and now all cassettes will use 11 speed cog spacing. So you are even more locked into the Shimano ecosystem with no option to source parts from places like Microshift or S-Ride etc...
I still want a six speed cassette.
I can picture a meeting room at Shimano where the execs and engineers are reviewing Russ' videos for "new" ideas. They had to call it "Lifestyle" because Party Pace was already taken.
@@XBKLYN Yeah. I'm with ya, 100%
Glad to see this..and you covering it Russ! Not sure if anyone else has highlighted this..doesn’t this feel like microSHIFT Advent X territory? I love mine and was glad to see your appreciation of it too, in past videos. Affordable, easy and just works.
I'm OK with being in the "lifestyle" category. Cycling isn't just a sport I participate in on weekends or a hobby for when I'm bored. It is very much a lifestyle. So, yeah, that fits.
Wow I'm actually excited for a 9 speed groupset in 2023
Claris - Sora - Tiagra is like the silly Pontiac - Oldsmobile - Buick lineup.
I think the acknowledgement that race components don't anymore scale to a good regular rider experience is a good development for most cyclists out there.
Thanks for the reporting Russ. This is great news. Excited that Shimano is still creating new mechanical groupsets.
I saw this groupset mentioned in a post about Surly's new bike, the Preamble, which looks sweet!
Yes, please more of THIS type of content.
Seems like really good news! It may not be aesthetically what I’d look for but so good to have it available
Good to see them finally catching up to microshift 😂
Russ being honest : "I just want a wider pizza !!!" :-) I love that 40/26 crank, looks like Shimano finally listened to us "lifestyle" cyclist. I love this type of content, and I hope you can get your hands on a Cues groupset soon for review.
Ive used sram cassettes the most bcoz you can take them apart and then mix and match the cogs to create the ratios that work best for you. as long u have the correct spacers, u can mix sram cogs from 8-11 speed cassette applications. And all sram shifters and RD can be mixed and matched too while also providing better shifting even from the entry level sets
this is cool stuff. i agree with russ that its a response to microshift coming in but i also wonder how much is a response to pandemic bike part shortages. this kinda cross compatibility will make specc-ing oem parts way way easier for shimano when you can mix and match based on what you have around. all in all, good for everyone i think
If I'm understanding this right it sounds like great news if you're working strictly with Shimano components but its going to completely destroy cross compatibility between brands in both the shifter and drive train - depending on what the pull ratio is it could mean only using 11speed derailers and shifters from other brands or none at all unless they shift to mimic new shimano ratio. And while a sram or microshift drivetrain will use 9 or 10 speed width chains and cassettes, shimano will use expressy 11speed - so for me running a bicycle reconditioning workshop it sounds like yet another part to have to stock to accommodate newer bikes and the overall cost of repairs going up and possibly then the overall cost of the end bike - same goes for their switch to cartridge bearings in the hubs
I saw a post about CUES recently and couldn’t believe my eyes. Figured you’d be excited too, so thanks for jumping on with your take. Will be watching this space for developments!!
Russ, great video bud. Really into this because it’s something for everyone to get excited about and you yourself are excited about it and it’s not just manufactured hype. Thanks for keeping it real, as always.
Thanks, Russ, for covering this upon its release.
Nice to see. They couldn’t let Micro Shift have all the fun. I could see rebuilding my old 2x touring setup with this.
You have to thank Microshift's Advent groupset for bringing low price and wide range attention to Shimano.
I’m a professional mechanic and my wife’s bike is advent X, my mountain bike is box 9. 10 bikes and not a single 12 speed.
I hope Rouvy paid you for this, Russ! Definitely an interesting move for Shimano
Seriously, use an ad blocker
I always knew I was a dork, but I never really embraced it until I got super into bikes. Thanks for the update Russ.
I share your excitement about this, thank you for the update.
I love Advant X from Microshift. Works perfectly all the time. On my other bikes I have a conglomeration of Shimano levels and such and they all work great. Even with off branded cranks and the likes. I dont know how this new direction will affect me, as I dont plan to buy SRAM or Shimano any longer if I can get Microshift for half or lower. My 10 speed Advant X derailleur has a clutch also. Not too bad for 60 bucks!
Same here Microshift is an excellent product
I was an early Microshift AdventX user... and I agree, works really well.....but just the new Linkglide tech on these cassettes will ensure that CUES outperforms in the shifting department...
Would be very interested to see if those cranksets are fully riveted or if they use a direct mount chainring system like 12 speed shimano mtb stuff does currently
I believe Deore and SLX chainrings are riveted to a spider that is then a direct mount to the crank arm, they look very similar in design to the cues cranks
I guess it's time for me to start saving for a bike with the Cues 2x9. I've lived with this free 3x7 MEGARANGE for so long and any upgrade would require a new bike anyway. Hopfully Decathlon spits one of these out that isn't expensive, i've got mountain roads to explore lol.
edit: Now that I think about it, if it costs less for the groupset and wheels than a whole bike, and it fits in my 135mm dropouts, this bike might get another decade or two.
If the frame fits you well, definitely consider just mounting the new groupset. Learning and tinkering is part of the fun!
@@charlcoetzee93 I've had a lot of fun working on it so far. Hit a roadblock when looking at the groupset upgrade though, the CUES may have broken that. The fact that they have square taper models has me jazzed.
Cues will NOT reduce the range and amount of spares we will need to cary in our shops. It will increase, as we still need parts for all the old stuff. It's getting pretty wild.
like Sram UDH added a plus 1 hanger to carry in stock alongside all the others. Unless it is adopted exclusively it is just another standard
This 100%. 10 speed tended to be a bit of a pain but everything 9 speed down was always compatible, and as for Shimano going on about how the groups can all use the same chain, it doesn't really matter, I've seen 10/11 chains work perfectly on 8 speed drivetrains. The shop I'm in already switched to SRAM for a lot of the casettes because the ones Shimano made were far poorer in quality, I can imagine almost everything now that's still compatible with the old stuff will be cheaply made garbage, forcing more people who still run older models to buy new.
Sora 3x9 is the ticket for me.
I wonder if this is for manufacturing streamlining, make everything out of 11s parts (cassette cogs, chainrings, chains) with the same pull ratios, then just less cogs for the 9s and 10s options along with less ratchet teeth in the right shifter.
Thank you for this heads up about what is coming for us "Lifestyle" cyclists. I like this and the other content that you discuss so eloquently.
I’m now more convinced than ever that a 12 speed mechanical “road” groupset is to be announced before the end of the year though it won’t be what many people hoped for, instead it will take it’s Cues (pun intended) from this announcement and be a combined replacement for the remaining higher end MTB components and GRX on the gravel side, I would also expect there to be a Di2 version as well, I just hope Shimano has a better name for it
I wish I were as hopeful about this as you seem to be, Russ.
Saw the CUES intro on my Shimano STEC and I was absolutely astounded! Linkglide? On a 9 speed? With a clutch (potentially)??? Dude I’m so fuckin excited, if they have something I like imma get some components for my older MTB!
This is interesting. I am looking forward to a comparison to micro shifts offering when cues becomes available.
Thanks for this, just now fitting BikinGreen 46-30 chainrings to my Ultegra road bike... so about time too.
Good news....affordable 46 - 30 and the reunification of drop and flat bar. Prices seem good...no doubt spurred by the new Chinese brands undercutting them..a good contrast with the GRX stuff which seemed way too expensive when it came out (in comparison with the Alivio 3 x 9 I use for touring!)
Alivio deserves more cred, I agree.
I like this breakdown and commentary.
I have an old Surly Pacer with 7 speed XT on it right now that has been itching for some upgrades. This seems like it might fit the bill and the budget.
I like content like this, especially when it's this topical. I see a lot of hate online for Cues, but all I can feel is excited for the possibilities. Sealed bearing hubs, too! Now, if we can only get some of it in Korea. I bet we'll see it permanently sold out and will need to buy from Chinese sellers, though. Shimano really neglects the Korean market.
Yeah! I kinda like the Linkglide. I would sacrifice some weight for durability. I agree that front chain rings should not be riveted. I also agree that for those who want them, we should not get rid of the front derailleur option. I too want range and that is why one of my bikes has the Pinion P18 which has good range. I also have a MTB with a huge pancake cassette. It is a 1 X 12 though. My Pinion bike is for touring cuz the MTB does not have a lot of carrying capacity.
What i would like is a polished component option as well.
I think I ditched the front derailleur for a 1x because of Russ’s videos a couple of years ago 😂. I like the simplicity and it works for me. I’m not riding around bike mountains needing low gears or racing fast with high gears.
Great stuff, Russ. I still don’t speak front derailleur, but respect those who can.
i run a 3× front derailleur with a dead (no wire) back derailleur. it's just great.
Thanks Russ! Very big picture informative!!
Use an ad blocker
I wonder if this spells the end of the Dura Ace 180mm Crank arms. I always wanted to get a set but it never trickled down to Ultegra.
Thanks Russ, all good information. Up until I started watching RUclips a couple of years ago I didn't know what a groupset was and I've been cycling for 50+ years. I'm still happily ignorant about clutch derailleurs, cassettes and everything else for bikes popularized after 1980. I love your use of friction shifting but I've gone one step further and ride single speed and 3-speed hub geared bikes. It's bliss and its cheap but somehow the wheels keep turning.
Shimano could have called this new range SMPLTN :)
I love the concept. Nice to see them throw a bone to us "lifestyle" types.
Shimano's marketing department have always been complete weirdos. There was Exage back in the 80s and 90s, a little above Alivio quality stuff but they came up with name by combining Excite and Age. Dura-Ace was durable and ace, Tourney was tour and journey, the list goes on. If you really want a laugh at marketing even worse and more patronizing that "lifestyle" have a look at their old Santé brochure, it was described as having a "high tech look of pure precision" and it was suggested that it would make the perfect gift for friends and family.
I imagine drop bar options will still keep the standard 50/34 compact option, (I hope so anyway, I ride on the road and 50/34 is perfect for me). Would also like to see the option for Rim brakes still on drops.
I'm happy running pro-level Shimano a few generations old -- cheap used, yet performs like a dream. 3x9 XTR was the best Shimano ever made.
It’s seems to me they are saying you can use an 11 speed shifter with a 9, 10 or 11 speed cassette! That’s awesome.
This is certainly a way for shimano to try and stay a leader in the bike market. Most consumers, in my experience, do not know about, or care about the levels of consumer grade shift levels. Affordability and reliability is all that matters. We are excited to welcome this new age of Shimano as long as there is some backward compatibility and entry level chain prices in their new (11 speed fits) philosophy yet entry level people do like to spend 11 speed chain prices.
I really hope this 1X9 is both wide range and works with a friction thumb shifter. Would it be to much to ask that it come in silver? Silver parts are so much classier and go with any color frame.
I would love to have any of the 2x option right now. But it looks like I would still have to wait a long time and probably going to be hard to find stock when it comes out.
Totally out of the main subject of the video, but i've always wondered the reason you've replaced your Salsa Vaya. I currently own a 2012 model, had it since 2016 and it have been one of my favorite bikes. Right now I am in the need to get rid of some of my bikes due to an upcoming move and lack of space and my Vaya is possible my best choice of all my bikes, was there a particular reason to replace it or it was only an "age" issue? Greetings from Tijuana Mexico!
If the bolt holes match on the crankset, drill out the rivets?
Yes! 40/26 wide range double!
Nice I'm waiting for that 26-40,awesome!!! 👍
Looks to me like the lower end (aka 9 speed) stuff has pressed cranksets, which tells me they will probably be cheap and heavy unfortunately. I like the look of the stuff from what I can see online, but I will have to see what it looks like in person. I want the lower geared cranksets, and I want the compatibility. But I still want decent quality stuff. I've been pretty impressed with the Sora and Tiagra groups of late, so keeping an open mind. Thanks for the details Russ! Lifestyle or not, you are defintely my people!
Id love to see a groupset with 9 speeds that is actually decently made. Tiagra was nice stuff, especially at that price point but I doubt the new stuff will be as nice, especially those riveted chainsets. Time to start looking at campy's old compact chainsets to get lower gears.
I want better low gearing on my trek 920 for off-road touring. I can't figure out how to make it happen without buying all new stuff. Maybe mixing and matching bits will work even if it doesn't say so. I didn't think of that. 100% yes to wider gear range!!
You just need to buy a new casette ( one that is fully disassemblable), some 0.1mm spacers. Measure how much narrower the new rings are than the old ones and place these spacers on either side accordingly. The put the old spacers between the new, larger rings when putting it on your freehub and now you have more range on your old drivetrain and it cost one casette and some spacers.
So great, thanks.
Wondering about the compatibility of the lower crank gear and brazed-on front derailleur hanger on road bikes?
Should be easy to create an adapter/extender.
1x drive trains are great for kids bikes. It's much easier to teach them to use gears if they've only got to worry about one control.
Still hoping for a reasonable priced 1x12 gravel setup to come at some point
I was hoping for a 26/40 to use with my gravel touring bike. When will that crank ratio trickle up to 11 speed 🤔
I think they are all compatible with each other. But not with the old 11 speed.
Love the pizza analogy for gear range vs number of gears. Going to steal this one.
One possible downside: They'll be forced to make the cranks really wide to fit all kinds of frames. I'm not too exited about the cranks, but the drivetrain compatibility sounds nice.
Yes, I totally hated when Shimano started to make all their 3x mtb cranks with 50mm chainlines. Once I installed an older 47.5, things just felt a lot better (135mm rear spacing). I am going to assume that rim brake bikes might still need custom parts from people like White Industries.
So if I have a 9 speed sora groupset, can I use an 11 speed ultegra chain?
Did you guys find that the CUES crankset look very much like the GRX ones?
I want a 50/34 crankset that works with a 10-52 cassette and is compatible with both flat bars and drop bars. Throw in a clutch derailleur and hydraulic brakes, and I’ll buy two group sets right now!
I'm glad theyre keeping front derailleurs and 9 speed alive. Hope rim brakes can survive too.
From what I can see, that's mostly not the case with this groupset. That said rim brakes are still around for road groupsets.
@@vaska00762 Can't you (at least currently) use the same mechanical road shifter for both rim and disc brakes? So all you would need to do is source a rim brake caliper.
@@barrytantlinger1033 Currently? Yes. The only issue is that you need to ensure that brake cable pull is correct. Some mechanical disc calipers are calibrated to 15mm linear pull (like Avid BB5), and others might be designed for 7mm (or Shimano SLR 8mm). I've noticed that SRAM never actually ever specifies their mechanical brake pull.
But if the trend to move to hydraulic takes over, then I have no idea what happens next. This is where the last of the hydraulic rim brakes might have a niche, but Magura makes use of their own proprietary mineral oil. I've heard of Shigura setups, but I don't know if mixed SRAM & Magura (Sragura?) would ever be a thing, particularly since there's yet to be anything from SRAM for road mineral oil (to my knowledge).
If Avid drops the mechanical calipers and the lower end Shimano stuff is eliminated, then idk where the future for mechanic disc will be, at least outside of Chinese parts of questionable quality and cottage industry parts that will probably be unobtainable.
Shimano is going hydraulic disc for all their groups; rim brakes are history.
I want some of your other stickers, ya gotta restock them!! Thanks!
I live in Austria one of my home trails has some rough parts l. When I am riding my enduro 170mm front, 165mm rear the chain drops even with a chain guide.
Back in the day with two and three chainrings it was horrible, you dropped the chain constantly.
Trails here are more like Downhill Trails. roots rocks drops, some parts so steep its harder to walk then to ride.
Seems like Shimano is doing a great job of pushing Microshift. Wish I liked their road shifters more
Interesting stuff indeed. Over the last 10 years I have kept to 9 speed for budget builds exactly because of compatability between road and mtb gearing ratios. Still, maybe too little too late with chinese companies like Siensah now becoming really interesting alternatives.
Imo, the coolest aspect is that it is Linkglide.
Good video, nice critical take. Excited for this development. As an average casual bike packer I hardly ever reach 40kph / 25mph on my own power so having a 50/11 top gear is way overkill and makes half my gears redundant. Currently running a 36/11 as top gear on one bike and a 38/12 on another.
Really hope to see less forced incompatibility and obsolescence from these brands in future
I feel they have learnt from their electronic tiers that share most of the internals/electric gubbins, having only different materials or available functions at the differing price points. This is the one 11 speed group with different materials and a few cassettes missing some cogs. R&D streamlined to electric 12 speed + mechanical 11 speed.
ie. expect 105 and up to be electric only, which we all see happening anyway.
Sorry, we now what shifts everything and you Sir are responsible for it!
Just need a budget gevenalle knock off / DIY on level shifter mount and it's golden
This will also break 9 and 10 speed cross brand compatibility as well as current 9 and 10 speed Shimano. Cues is basically 11-speed shimano mechanical Shimano with fewer clicks in the shifter and gears on the cassette. This is because the cassette is spaced for an 11-speed, so switching to Cues will mean a new cassette and a chain. I can't help but think this *might* be intentional, because this also means you have to go to Shimano for their Cues cassette for 9 and 10 speed. Additionally, there's no mismatching of rear derailuers and shifters for 9 and 10 speed (if you like clicks) between brands.
It looks like the U4000 and U6000 may have direct mounted chainrings, not rivetted. Possibly trickle down from the shimano mountain bike range.
Wouldn't hold my breath on that. Cutting threads is expensive and in order to get the clearances right to fit all of what's needed around the crank shaft you need higher grade materials.
Most likely these chain rings are simply pressed on in the factory and non-removable for mere mortals like other models among Shimano's low budget HT2 cranks.
God. Very much agreed that that the 26-40 and wider range in the back would be the best for a bikepacking-capable all-arounder. It’s really impossible to have bike that won’t spin out with some unloaded road riding AND is fully bikepacking capable, without a nice front derailleur. Lol.
Now we just need them offer 2x with 160mm cranks.
I completely agree! More Range Please!! my gravel bike is 34/50 x 11/40 using a wolf tooth. and obviously can't use every gear EG big front big back.. but its fairly close think its big front and 3 down the back is fully extended. anywho really agree though would love a double with super wide range.
Create Unique ExperienceS - so good.
I wonder what the clearance and specification will need to be for road/gravel/mountain bikes. Especially when it comes to clearance with the 26 or 22 small rings. Depending on that, might consider fitting my Klein road bike with this new group set as an adventure Sunday bike.
I run 40/26 on multiple “road” bikes right now.
Other days are available… 😐
@@PathLessPedaledTV Hi Russ, I appreciate that you’ve done vids on this in the past, but is there a manufacturer of chainring you have a preference for?
I’ve bought a nice tourer/rando which at some point has been converted from a triple to a ‘race double’. I’m talking 1980’s TdF gearing 😳
The obvious answer is to convert back to a triple, but your double solution seems very appealing 😀
I would add - What is the chainline specifications for the cranksets? Are these groupsets going to be designed for wider disc hub spacings or will there be choices for rim brake bikes?
9:20 Yeah, Linkglide needs to be beefier because it was originally intended for e-bikes. I guess the idea here is to have a unified component range for human and battery-powered bikes.
It's really about getting rid of too many product lines and simplifying so that inventory management will be easier for legacy products. By having one line for 9-11 speed, mountain and road, the bike shops can work with fewer parts and make things easier for the customer wanting a fix for their commuter bike. The chain is just 11 speed. Only the outer width of the chains were different, and having a thinner one does not make it incompatible. I think this is a good idea because there's no need to have so many different product lines and it will be easier for servicing in the future.
Russ: I’m bringing out a Soma-x-Dia-Compe bar end shifter.
Shimano engineer: Hold my beer 🍺
So, if you race a bicycle for a living, training for that every day, you don't use the "lifestyle range" of cassettes, but if you have a hybrid bicycle that collects dust in your garage all but the 3 or 4 days you get out on in summer, you do want to go with the "lifestyle range" of cassettes... did I get that right?
I think it depends on if it is more Alivio quality or Tiagra quality.
I think this makes room for Sensah and L-Twoo to expand.
A German travel cyclist has been traveling the world on a touring bike with the Altus Groupset for 10 years. Without having replaced rear derailleur, front derailleur or shifters. Since now probably over 100.000km/62.000mls.
Also cheaper groups work and last. They just weigh more. If you ask him about it, he will tell you that maintance is the key.
Nothing wrong with the "quality" of Alivio its just heavy -ish, Tourney is the only Shimano group that is best avoided it functions fine but wears out too fast and makes it a bit of a false economy.
I agree with Barry, those china/Taiwan group sets are coming,once their distribution gets better Iike the car industry, they will thrive
@@veganpottertheveganSo you're saying Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman!
@@veganpotterthevegan
Shimano Shadow rear derailleurs with Altus, Acera and Alivio are functionally identical; the only difference is the plastic body which Shimano uses to make the identical RD's look different.
that 9 speed cog reminds of me of shimano tourney's mega range lol
I'm so old, welcome to the "lifestyle catagory". Dang I don't want to get out of bed now.
Shorter crank lengths too would be beneficial
what is the pull cable ratio? it's deal breaker because we don't have a choice for brifter (curly handle bar shifter)
It will likely be a new cable pull.
Build a brifter for the 1x 10-51 Shimano or 10-52 Sram cassettes and all gravel and road drivetrain problems are solved.
If you mean 1x12, I’m on board.
So more options? Any chance they make crank arms in small lengths? 170 or 175 is utterly ridiculous on xs size bikes , we short riders need 160mm ! 165mm is a rarity but even that is to long . For this reason I have given up .