I have enjoyed the slight changes they have added this year where in the games traitors do have a slight reason not to fully pull their weight. One thing I found bland in the past two seasons was the fact that when they did activities everyone was essentially going for the same goal and in the same way. I had mused that a way to give the players something more evidence based to use when throwing accusations at round tables would be if the traitors had a separate prize pot which was all money that the teams failed to win, meaning sabotage would be the traitors task in the activities. Still enjoying this season and as someone mentioned below, it does get better when the numbers dwindle.
I don't know how that could be worked though Samuel? I don't know what the ratio would be comparing the two pots, but I expect the bigger pot is the main prize, minus the lost money. If you're a Traitor you still want to get that main pot at the end, rather than putting yourself into the firing line by attempting to fill the second pot?
@@ceesmithYou could make it work. Either have money added as a bonus to the main pot for traitors only or as suggested traitors have a completely separate pot. The main thing this comment highlights is that everyone working together on the tasks was not entertaining and could often be skipped because as a viewer, we don't care if the winner gets £75k or £110k. We want to watch to see if people can figure out who the traitors are and therefore the tasks have been much better this season. Even making people wonder if traitors would be more likely or not to stay on that raft, everyone had different theories, much more interesting
@@bertiewooles3093 Exactly this. Watched the first episode; thought "So the traitors don't have to sabotage the faithful?" and turned off. A game of werewolf padded out for an entire series was not for me.
That was exactly the argument in our house. Because we were saying "even if you're a traitor, you have to play each days games entirely faithfully to avoid giving yourself away." I would like to see Traitors get given the odd secret mission in the games. Once or twice, the Traitors could earn a secret prize pot just for themselves if they can bring back something that feels unimportant to the rest of the group, or have a ticking clock but the money runs down the longer the game goes on, but unbeknownst to the others, the Traitors bank any money not won by the group .
To sort out the biggest issues with the format they need to make the challenges very difficult. If you aren't confident going into each challenge whether you'll even win money then there is incentive for everyone to keep around the more intelligent and vocal personalities. It would be fun to watch the traitors balance the priorities of winning money and winning the game.
Immediately and still, the mentality of traitors and many of the faithful in the UK S3 Traitors, is that of pure focus to reach the end game, without regard for the prize pot. The size of the pot will be incidental to the winner, it's all or nothing after all, and I think many of the players of cottoned on to this idea this series now, to it's detriment I reckon.
The problem with Traitors is it's in no way an actual game. It's just "vibes-based". If there were elements of genuine deduction it would be massively improved and it's not rocket science. Werewolf was invented in 1986 and modern games like Avalon/The Resistance show the concept can be done much better.
Exactly! There's no mechanical way that suspicions can be proved/disproved. It's a big reason I can't stand watching the show but will watch a livestream of blood on the clocktower (sometimes featuring Ivan Brett from the Traitors)
Almost like these people have never played Werewolves, Mafia or wink murder... or watched Survivor. You can only make alliances and be an asset in challenges. Reminds me of Big Brother before people knew what reality tv was and there was no faking being a smart arse/ actually being dumb and awful.
Traitors works despite the game mechanics not because of them. It's so well produced; the music (incredible), Claudia (perfection), Claudia's outfits (like a show in itself), the cinematography (is that too big a word for a TV game show?). Then as Marina and Richard say, the casting is critical - slightly weaker this year in my opinion, but still decent. The 'game' part works in the same way as The Apprentice which creates a perfect storm of difficult task, impossible time limit and you have to achieve it by working with your competitors, all of whom are arrogant and operating outside of their ability. Similarly, Traitors is not about what it claims to be about, but rather the perfect combination of tone, illusion and people. With both The Apprentice and Traitors it would all fall apart if the contestents worked together and said "We know that most of us will be going home, so let's just work together nicely and enjoy our time on this fun show".
It was very weird that the the human behavourial scientist had such a poor understanding of Traitor game theory. I really hope the 3 sacrifices do come back, seeing them navigate the suspicion would be so much fun.
Being two faced and lying to peoples faces and making pacts and little pockets of friends behind peoples backs is basically the UKs national pastime, which is why i think its done SO well here vs other countries. There is an absolute truth to "this is how the world is" particularly in the UK. We love the backstabbing, frontstabbing and melodrama.
Its the first time I've ever watched Traitors , my daughter told me to watch it with her , and I'm hooked and she's loving it too. I'm going to go back and watch the first two when this one has finished.
The second series is one of the best bits of TV I have ever seen. The first series... It being a new show, you can tell that the contestants were mainly people who just really wanted to be on telly. A lot of main character syndrome going on.
You say you think there's a superman film every 6 months or so but actually the last full "just superman" superman film we got was Man of steel which was 12 years ago.
BvS was 9 years ago and Justice League was 8 years ago but has occupied and outsized space is the conversion due to the immense back and forth of the Snyder cut movement. And we really must accept that to the non-devoted those were all Superman movies.
I haven't watched The Traitors although I know what it is. Is it possible that the diplomat guy thought that having to deal with people who, in the circumstances, thought tossing a coin was "unfair" would be such a frustrating experience that he thought "F**k it, I'm out of here"?
😂 actually, nobody was coming up with ideas of what to do, so he hinted that he wouldn't be opposed to volunteering. He was just hoping that would lead to a few others putting themselves forward, bringing them closer to a decision. But everyone interpreted his hint as if he was boldly sacrificing himself and basically said "great! Thank you so much." And he was like "oh, I guess I'm off then."
nah the mainstream love that man. Nothing will break that. His scandals have come and gone with zero impact on his empire. Season 2 of the beast games will grow that brand and he can basically enter into anything he asks for. He would make a good villain as in those beast games he comes across as cruel and degenerate. Perfect evil character material. But he can't act to save his life so it would probably have to be his image. Some 3D animated thing with his likeness and voice. I don't play Fortnite but I've seen he is a skin you can buy in that which puts him on par with the hulk, spiderman etc. as far as mainstream popularity goes. And I suspect worldwide his draw is even greater. He's got messiah like followings in other countries I've noticed.
Have you got a link to a vid/series of vids that covers it all? Wasn’t well when it all came out so missed most and since then there’s been so much I don’t know where to go for the best info!
I love listening to these two talk about TV but man that movie section was painful to listen to. Some stinker takes from both of them about things they have next to no idea about
Someone announcing they are intelligent doesn't make them so. It's always the book smart versus street smart dynamic that makes programmes like The Traitors interesting. However, I don't think she would have been an actual threat - I imagine she rated her skills more highly than others around her.
She striked me as smart on paper but not much beyond that. All she did was go on about how clever she was. In my experience, these people are always outsmarted by a genuinely intelligent person who doesn't boast. Anybody knows that going on to the traitors and announcing your Phd is related to reading people you're obviously going to be a target. Hence why I don't think she's actually that smart.
This is like Big Brother, the only really interesting season was the first one where the contestants had no idea how it worked and more importantly how it was being perceived outside. I remember the contestants saying "I bet no-one is watching this" meanwhile outside it was becoming a complete phenomena. Once people had seen the show the later seasons were just full of people fully aware of what was going on and how the viewers saw them and adjusted their behaviour accordingly, so it was never as interesting as that first season.
It’s a slightly strange thing to think that the new superman won’t do well, it’s billed as the total opposite style to the Cavill (Snyder) era superman movies, removing the dour grey palette and angry screaming and moping, replacing it with a more colourful and possibly upbeat “Reevesey” superman. I can’t see it flopping, except due to people not understanding it’s a different movie to the previous run.
Exactly. I definitely see Superman doing well. I'm someone who had written off the DCEU pretty early on because of the tone. I'm going to be coming back for Superman and I feel like a lot of people feel the same way
Traitors shows how poor people tend to be when it comes to making decisions about others. They never check their bias - they use the word evidence liberally when it’s not evidence.
The contestants treat it like a personality contest. They vote off who they don’t like/aren’t friends with. The third series shows how much people behave like sheep, all agreeing who they’re going to nominate as a traitor. It’s a much less interesting crowd than the previous series too.
@@dalriadaskillen yes, because the game dictates that's how you should play. There's no evidence of who the traitors are - unless they sell eachother out - & no incentive to vote them out even if you do know. Consequently, you just round on ANYBODY.
Flaws or semi flaws: 1. Swearing on your family that you're not a traitor. Technically that's one of the best moves you can make. And some people come off so clean with integrity that you will never tag them as a traitor Like that John guy from last season and after the 1st banishment no one suspected him. Downside of this is being a solidified faithful puts you to be murdered. If I ever played traitor or a faithful I'm going to swear on everything, because it's such an op move, if you're not doing that at this point it makes me think you are bad at this game. 2. Traitors blowing up another traitors game. You had seasons were people did not target another traitor because they were afraid they would blow up their game. You had people doing weird stares, underlining names, or Dan blowing up Phaedra's last time before he even went to banishment he said "I'll give you a traitor", since everyone knew he was a traitor even though no one would've guessed her, unless it was a traitor, and there's nothing she could do to prevent that because if the other traitor does not want you, you are screwed.) That's why if you don't put the fear of God into your fellow traitors, you are making a bad move. It's a like a mutual assured destruction. Both have finger on the nuke, they blow your game you blow theirs up. 3. Players playing like it's survivor and getting rid of people they don't like, it's not in the spirit of finding traitors. Or just getting rid of faithfuls at the end just to increase the prize pot. 4. No incentive to find traitors since they'll just be recruited. 5. The traitor picks are always people that would make great tv, people from strategic backgrounds, bb, survivor. The fairest would be for a random number generator, and perhaps if someone is picked a traitor they don't want, they can decline it and that role is then re number generated to another player.
I'd like a Superman where he's being proactive, rather than reactive. I'd love a film with Supes just doing fairly banal health and safety around an oil rig "shouldn't really put any boxes in front of a fire exit.." **nose exhale** "how frequently do you test your fire alarms? nooooooot great.....""
I'd like a Superman movie where he's not wasting his time playing dress up, sitting on his arse writing puff pieces for a newspaper while people around the world are in trouble and need his help. 😁
If you're ever on the traitors and make it far enough, if like every other season the last 2 - 3 people to enter the breakfast hall are faithful every time to build suspense, it'd take the fun away but mathematically if you make it far enough you'll know who they are, it just seems like a huge flaw in the show.
I’ve only started watching on this series of the traitors and I have to say I have so much more respect for the people who got off the train than anyone else lol
Richard’s assertion that Hollywood appears more interested in original scripts is encouraging, mainly because I hope they have finally realised they have squeezed every last drop out of the legacy IP they have been destroying, and will stop doing that.
Listening to Marina and Richard talk about Traitors makes me feel like we're living in the days of the late Roman Empire, baying for blood in the Colosseum. :(
They're both good but the mole doesn't have the traitors meetings, betraying one another etc. The quizzes about the mole to see who goes works practically but is not nearly as entertaining
@@sledgehammer858 Well yeah but the point with the Mole is there is actually a way to tell who the Mole is. They are activly working against the group in challenges. Traitors are not ACTUALLY traitors, its all the same prize pot
@@sledgehammer858 I think the game itself is pretty flimsy, but The Traitors definitely excels in tension and drama. I do wonder how long that can carry the show, and I think they need to give the game a bit more depth, maybe by adding something like the other secret player roles from Werewolf/Mafia. (Maybe they've already done that, I haven't seen the new series.)
The Dutch version ("Wie is de mol") has been one of the most watched shows in the Netherlands for 25 years. It's excellent, there's even versions with English subs on RUclips.
I'm really looking forward to the UK version of "The Genius Game" this year, it will be interesting to see if it works as well as the Korean version; or if it's more of a flop like the Dutch one.
A new Superman film every 6 months? What?? There have been just 6 Superman films ever 4 with Christopher Reeves from 1978-87, 1 in 2006 and Man of Steel in 2013
I think he meant more "films with Superman" -- there was BvS, Justice League, cameos in Shazam and Black Adam, the Justice League directors' cut, etc. Plus all the TV shows in the background. For the general public, Superman is always around (and I'd argue the same effectively for Batman).
Love an interval! No more letting people out of the row/back in/having view blocked etc. Possibilitly people will only eat cooked food during interval (don't need those smells and noises, thanks)
People don't care about the war anymore, because they have their own personal issues. Rachel Zegler, however, made some questionable remarks about the movie and the original. Overall, I don't actually think Zegler's unpopularity will affect the movie's profitability either.
Big fan of Richard, but was genuinely surprised by the apparent gaps in his pop-culture knowledge, and how surprised he seemed to be about everything film-related!
Same. Hearing him say stuff like Inside Out wasn't a hit. Errmm it was considered one of Pixar's best movies when it came out and it came after a bunch of duds for them so people appreciated it even more
The magic of the The Traitors is all in the casting IMO, and I think they've missed the mark in season 3. As Marina says, the game has lost some novelty and innocence, but I also think it's a much weaker cast this year.
22:17 We haven't had a standalone Superman film since 2013. Before that it was 2006 and before _that_ were the Christopher Reeve films from the 70's & 80s.
I don't know the logigistics, but I think traitors should have to somehow sabotage the missions. (Like the gunpowder challenge). It would help the faithfuls spot them and make it more logic based
Lilo and Stitch has made a huge jump up because of all the neuro-diverse kids who watched it, saw themselves in Lilo, thought Stitch was awesome and it then it became their favourite Disney film, just in case you wonder why it has gone up in people's estimations.
Surely the motivation for the faithfuls to find and banish the traitors is so that they themselves can become a traitor? The traitors are unlikely to be allowed to recruit if none of them are ever banished
A question for Richard about his latest book "We Solve Murders". Why do you have a lowercase "i" in name when the rest of the lettering is in caps? Are you striving to become a new Will.i.am?
You're both buying into the "we're seeing the whole picture" You're seeing the highlights - the producers *know* what they are leaving in - they're not dumb.
Don't understand the dislike for Avatar and Mission Impossible. They are blockbuster movies. Proper popcorn fests. Maybe it's the "movie for the common man" that get's Marina "split fiction books pre and post-war" in a tizzy.
Who edited this? An action adventure film director? There's a picture change every few seconds. It's a conversation between two people, not a fight. Stop it.
I think there are some great points in this discussion. A lot that I agree with but the BBC has commissioned it's 19th series of the apprentice which is the most tired and predictable format for such a long period of time. I think the traitors still has a long way to go before talking about a failed format
Series 1 had one functional player Wilf who was screwed when the producers exploited that he had said all along he wanted all the money, made him pick a new traitor Kieran, he had to get K voted off and so Kieran totally outed him at elimination- an unwinable situation for Wilf. Great TV, the three muppets Wilf manipulated won by being passengers on Wilfs journey.
@@joevictor53 considering he screwed over both his fellow Traitors and was planning on doing the same to Kieran I can't say I felt a lot of sympathy for him.
Tennis has experimented with shorter sets and it’s terrible. The long sets have a pleasing rhythm, create huge stakes and make incredible comebacks possible, for example.
All you have to do to make the Traitors so, so much better is get regular people to be the shows ‘producers’ and to film them too. Then the real producers operate a level above this and control the options the slowly fraying people in the public control room. It’s still watchable, but because everyone is watching at different speeds it’s not as fun as the old Big Brother days.
Hollywood, etc. has always cast actors that are way too old for the role, and then put them up against a female love interest too young to be a convincing partner. Eg. John Wayne.
Another podcast (hosted by S1 players) suggested that because viewers were complaining that the challenges were boring they made them involve the Traitors more. In terms of pacing it does help people remain engaged (although personally I enjoyed them) However, for the actual players it’s taken away the challenges as a form of team building and escape from the mind-games, which is probably why they’re more antagonistic towards each other. They now have no place to relax or form bonds, which robs the show of an element of its warmth
I think the biggest problem they have is that the most interesting people get voted off, and the quiet ones survive. The game punishes people who make better television.
Love Marina's takes on films. The only thing I disagree with is that they should put younger actors in the jurassic park film. What they need is competent actors and a good script. All the jurassic world films have been unwatchably bad so I do hope they put something good out that has broad appeal. Also I thoroughly expect James Gunn's superman to be a hit. The first trailer was awesome
You feel like there's a new Superman movie every six months? The last movie with Superman in it at all was Black Adam in 2022, there hasn't been a film with Superman as the solo protagonist since Man of Steel in 2013. In my opinion Superman has been criminally underused in film.
I decided to invest in Traitors this year to understand all the hype, and I’m puzzled… I mean, it’s enjoyable, but it’s incredibly basic. Just a bunch of people gossiping, then randomly guessing who the people voting someone out might be? Also, I don’t understand why when the Traitors eliminate someone it’s called “murder”, yet it’s not when the Faithfuls element someone. The net result is identical; the chosen individual is out of the game. Finally, I’m a big fan a Claudia Winkleman, but the praise bestowed upon her for this series also puzzles me. She does very little other than periodical appear and spout a few one-liners. Is there something deeper or more clever in this series I’m missing? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had a similar view on the simplicity in the first series, but it gets very good about halfway through when there's far fewer players. It's an interesting view into human behaviour, psychological scheming, and greed. When there's fewer players and the percentage of all players who are traitors goes up it becomes interesting to see how those with easy routes to money allow greed to take over. I'd also say that when it first came on it was a breath of fresh air in the 'reality' genre, as it wasn't 24 highly 'instagramable' people. I don't entirely understand your issue with the naming of murders and banishment. I think it's just so the show can distinguish the two things for the audience, and for a bit of murder mystery theatre, nothing deeper than that.
@@fraserwebster8761 Appreciate the feedback, thank you! I'll learn from your experience and as you've explained, perhaps the psychological element will get more interesting as the players are weaned out 🙂
Yeah my first time watching also and I have similar feelings. It seems a game that's very reliant on its own concept if that makes sense, ie. the only topic of conversation people have is whether someone's a traitor or not. I remember big brother in the early years would have certain tasks were a couple of people would have to sabotage it or something so it seems like that but without the variety of all the other stuff. Also it's very overdramatic as is Claudia Winkleman which I know is deliberate but still... Having said all that it does keep me entertained for an hour and makes me look forward to the next episode which is impressive
I haven't watched the latest series yet, waiting for it to end so I can binge so I've no idea what they have done. I feared they were going to mess with the insanely brilliant format because they couldn't help themselves. I think it was the American one where the contestants (maybe B-celebs, not sure) were all vying for the most camera time so it was quite exhausting to watch and more like a "Housewives of" vibe to it so not as good. I hope the Brit contestant don't start doing that. I'll watch this pod after I've seen Traitors.
I really enjoyed it last time. Not bothered this year. Feel it was almost perfect last year so why bother again? Maybe had they left it another 12 months I’d have been more interested
The problem is they have to make so many episodes so they can get to the final, so it doesn’t make sense to get the traitors out at the beginning as they will just recruit 🤷🏻♀️so doesn’t really make sense as a logical game
If there were a limited number of traitors per series, it might work better. Getting rid of a traitor only for them to be replaced with another one seems pointless (pardon the pun). It doesn't really achieve anything for the "faithful".
Agree, but they can't do that because if all 3 traitors were voted out straight away, then the show would end early and the BBC would have no episodes to show.
Richard also makes a couple of odd comments - Traitors in Canada has two versions, and both had a 2024 season. Also in Canada S2, they had three traitors for the entire series, which defies the idea of the first episodes being meaningless.
Is anyone like me coming in fresh at series 3 and feeling disappointed? There's so much backstory I feel like I've missed the boat. It's still watchable and moreish but kind of lame because the contestants mainly aren't that clever and come up with stupid reasons as to why someone is a traitor. I thought it would be smarter. Big Brother 1 was much better for intrigue. My idea would be to have a Traitors made up of detectives or psychologists and see if "experts" are any better at detecting the traitors. They'd have to be retired I guess or it could be career ending 😂
I think it'd be interesting to see Tom Cruise move into the same space as Hugh Grant. Leave the hero of the hour typecast (like HG did with the bumbling English eligible bachelor trope) and move into older roles. Straighter. Even dark / evil. Think he'd be good. If he's up for it. If he doesn't mind not playing the good guy
Osman needs to wind his neck in. He repeatedly talks about how the Traitors end up getting replaced after a couple of weeks. Did he not watch Season 2 😂😂😂😂😂
I have enjoyed the slight changes they have added this year where in the games traitors do have a slight reason not to fully pull their weight. One thing I found bland in the past two seasons was the fact that when they did activities everyone was essentially going for the same goal and in the same way. I had mused that a way to give the players something more evidence based to use when throwing accusations at round tables would be if the traitors had a separate prize pot which was all money that the teams failed to win, meaning sabotage would be the traitors task in the activities. Still enjoying this season and as someone mentioned below, it does get better when the numbers dwindle.
I don't know how that could be worked though Samuel? I don't know what the ratio would be comparing the two pots, but I expect the bigger pot is the main prize, minus the lost money. If you're a Traitor you still want to get that main pot at the end, rather than putting yourself into the firing line by attempting to fill the second pot?
@@ceesmithYou could make it work. Either have money added as a bonus to the main pot for traitors only or as suggested traitors have a completely separate pot. The main thing this comment highlights is that everyone working together on the tasks was not entertaining and could often be skipped because as a viewer, we don't care if the winner gets £75k or £110k. We want to watch to see if people can figure out who the traitors are and therefore the tasks have been much better this season. Even making people wonder if traitors would be more likely or not to stay on that raft, everyone had different theories, much more interesting
You have just described "the Mole" which is a much better format IMHO
@@bertiewooles3093 Exactly this. Watched the first episode; thought "So the traitors don't have to sabotage the faithful?" and turned off. A game of werewolf padded out for an entire series was not for me.
That was exactly the argument in our house. Because we were saying "even if you're a traitor, you have to play each days games entirely faithfully to avoid giving yourself away." I would like to see Traitors get given the odd secret mission in the games. Once or twice, the Traitors could earn a secret prize pot just for themselves if they can bring back something that feels unimportant to the rest of the group, or have a ticking clock but the money runs down the longer the game goes on, but unbeknownst to the others, the Traitors bank any money not won by the group
.
To sort out the biggest issues with the format they need to make the challenges very difficult. If you aren't confident going into each challenge whether you'll even win money then there is incentive for everyone to keep around the more intelligent and vocal personalities. It would be fun to watch the traitors balance the priorities of winning money and winning the game.
Immediately and still, the mentality of traitors and many of the faithful in the UK S3 Traitors, is that of pure focus to reach the end game, without regard for the prize pot. The size of the pot will be incidental to the winner, it's all or nothing after all, and I think many of the players of cottoned on to this idea this series now, to it's detriment I reckon.
The problem with Traitors is it's in no way an actual game. It's just "vibes-based". If there were elements of genuine deduction it would be massively improved and it's not rocket science. Werewolf was invented in 1986 and modern games like Avalon/The Resistance show the concept can be done much better.
Exactly! There's no mechanical way that suspicions can be proved/disproved. It's a big reason I can't stand watching the show but will watch a livestream of blood on the clocktower (sometimes featuring Ivan Brett from the Traitors)
Almost like these people have never played Werewolves, Mafia or wink murder... or watched Survivor. You can only make alliances and be an asset in challenges. Reminds me of Big Brother before people knew what reality tv was and there was no faking being a smart arse/ actually being dumb and awful.
Also, Avalon/The Resistance.
Yes and salem
So bored with all these 'Elimination Dance' reality shows already. NEXT!
Traitors works despite the game mechanics not because of them. It's so well produced; the music (incredible), Claudia (perfection), Claudia's outfits (like a show in itself), the cinematography (is that too big a word for a TV game show?). Then as Marina and Richard say, the casting is critical - slightly weaker this year in my opinion, but still decent. The 'game' part works in the same way as The Apprentice which creates a perfect storm of difficult task, impossible time limit and you have to achieve it by working with your competitors, all of whom are arrogant and operating outside of their ability. Similarly, Traitors is not about what it claims to be about, but rather the perfect combination of tone, illusion and people. With both The Apprentice and Traitors it would all fall apart if the contestents worked together and said "We know that most of us will be going home, so let's just work together nicely and enjoy our time on this fun show".
A really good summation imo. But if you read the comments on SM you'd think it was SOOO much more important and yet easier to play than that 😄
It was very weird that the the human behavourial scientist had such a poor understanding of Traitor game theory. I really hope the 3 sacrifices do come back, seeing them navigate the suspicion would be so much fun.
This is exactly what ended up happening and it was fascinating how the groupthink falsely branded the incumbents as potential traitors. (They weren’t)
Traitors NZ is the best, I don't know what they're feeding them down there but they are very, very clever
Being two faced and lying to peoples faces and making pacts and little pockets of friends behind peoples backs is basically the UKs national pastime, which is why i think its done SO well here vs other countries. There is an absolute truth to "this is how the world is" particularly in the UK. We love the backstabbing, frontstabbing and melodrama.
also we use normal people and everywhere else uses celebrities, it’s not physically possible to have the same experience with rich celebrities
Unfortunately so true, and where does it leave us , if we want the young to grow up better than us
Its the first time I've ever watched Traitors , my daughter told me to watch it with her , and I'm hooked and she's loving it too. I'm going to go back and watch the first two when this one has finished.
The second series is one of the best bits of TV I have ever seen. The first series... It being a new show, you can tell that the contestants were mainly people who just really wanted to be on telly. A lot of main character syndrome going on.
Episodes 3 and 7 of series 2 are 2 of the best hours of reality TV ever and the finale is incredible
Same here, I binged the entire first series between episodes 3 and 4 of this series.
They’re both brilliant, enjoy!
they need to start filming shows in bulk to have like 7 seasons built up before they release anything, so every single season retains that innocence
You say you think there's a superman film every 6 months or so but actually the last full "just superman" superman film we got was Man of steel which was 12 years ago.
Yep, way more Spiderman/Batman films. We haven't had string of Superman films since the 80's
Could be referring to the CW "Arrowverse" and the TV shows - "Superman & Lois" and "Supergirl" have multiple seasons now.
@@bensalt1185 You're probably right but he did categorically say "Superman movies" lol
BvS was 9 years ago and Justice League was 8 years ago but has occupied and outsized space is the conversion due to the immense back and forth of the Snyder cut movement.
And we really must accept that to the non-devoted those were all Superman movies.
5:42 "everyone's got fifteen of them in their office" 😂😂😂😂😂
I haven't watched The Traitors although I know what it is. Is it possible that the diplomat guy thought that having to deal with people who, in the circumstances, thought tossing a coin was "unfair" would be such a frustrating experience that he thought "F**k it, I'm out of here"?
😂 actually, nobody was coming up with ideas of what to do, so he hinted that he wouldn't be opposed to volunteering. He was just hoping that would lead to a few others putting themselves forward, bringing them closer to a decision. But everyone interpreted his hint as if he was boldly sacrificing himself and basically said "great! Thank you so much." And he was like "oh, I guess I'm off then."
Don't promote the hiring of 'Mr Beast' in films, awful human being that will soon be found out by mainstream media
Mr beast and the ava situation is disgusting
nah the mainstream love that man. Nothing will break that. His scandals have come and gone with zero impact on his empire. Season 2 of the beast games will grow that brand and he can basically enter into anything he asks for. He would make a good villain as in those beast games he comes across as cruel and degenerate. Perfect evil character material. But he can't act to save his life so it would probably have to be his image. Some 3D animated thing with his likeness and voice. I don't play Fortnite but I've seen he is a skin you can buy in that which puts him on par with the hulk, spiderman etc. as far as mainstream popularity goes. And I suspect worldwide his draw is even greater. He's got messiah like followings in other countries I've noticed.
Have you got a link to a vid/series of vids that covers it all? Wasn’t well when it all came out so missed most and since then there’s been so much I don’t know where to go for the best info!
Soy boy getting upset at hurty words.
I love listening to these two talk about TV but man that movie section was painful to listen to. Some stinker takes from both of them about things they have next to no idea about
Yin wasn't voted off. She was the first one 'murdered' precisely because the traitors recognised her as a threat.
Someone announcing they are intelligent doesn't make them so. It's always the book smart versus street smart dynamic that makes programmes like The Traitors interesting. However, I don't think she would have been an actual threat - I imagine she rated her skills more highly than others around her.
Technically, the traitors voted to murder her.
She striked me as smart on paper but not much beyond that. All she did was go on about how clever she was. In my experience, these people are always outsmarted by a genuinely intelligent person who doesn't boast. Anybody knows that going on to the traitors and announcing your Phd is related to reading people you're obviously going to be a target. Hence why I don't think she's actually that smart.
@@yellowsnake1048 You sound jealous
@roising.3221 I don't have it in me to do a PhD and I'd admit that. I know my limits.
Richard missed a sitter - 'Live action dragons! How did they train them?'
What an uplifting way to start the year! Happy New Year Marina & Richard.
This is like Big Brother, the only really interesting season was the first one where the contestants had no idea how it worked and more importantly how it was being perceived outside. I remember the contestants saying "I bet no-one is watching this" meanwhile outside it was becoming a complete phenomena.
Once people had seen the show the later seasons were just full of people fully aware of what was going on and how the viewers saw them and adjusted their behaviour accordingly, so it was never as interesting as that first season.
Attributing the backlash against the Snow White trailer to Rachel Zegler's political views is an interesting take Marina...
Yep. This was a WILD take. Did she say the wrong name?
I had to laugh when she labelled her “problematic” and it shows an anti-Trump quote. She must think all of Hollywood is “problematic” then!!!!
She's problematic but God forbid you say anything about genocide Barbie with no acting skill playing the villain
Management tip....do not try to play traitors as a team building exercise unless you want actual fighting between your staff
It’s a slightly strange thing to think that the new superman won’t do well, it’s billed as the total opposite style to the Cavill (Snyder) era superman movies, removing the dour grey palette and angry screaming and moping, replacing it with a more colourful and possibly upbeat “Reevesey” superman. I can’t see it flopping, except due to people not understanding it’s a different movie to the previous run.
Exactly. I definitely see Superman doing well. I'm someone who had written off the DCEU pretty early on because of the tone. I'm going to be coming back for Superman and I feel like a lot of people feel the same way
Traitors shows how poor people tend to be when it comes to making decisions about others. They never check their bias - they use the word evidence liberally when it’s not evidence.
No critical thinking
@ absolutely. I know it’s easy to watch and criticise but they all seem to lack the basics.
The contestants treat it like a personality contest. They vote off who they don’t like/aren’t friends with. The third series shows how much people behave like sheep, all agreeing who they’re going to nominate as a traitor. It’s a much less interesting crowd than the previous series too.
@ I agree.
@@dalriadaskillen yes, because the game dictates that's how you should play. There's no evidence of who the traitors are - unless they sell eachother out - & no incentive to vote them out even if you do know. Consequently, you just round on ANYBODY.
"Stay in the slipstream of others" is such perfectly worded advice for future contestants of a number of competition reality shows.
Superman's trailer had the 5th most viewed trailer in a 24 hour period. Every other film in that list grossed well over $1 billion
Flaws or semi flaws:
1. Swearing on your family that you're not a traitor.
Technically that's one of the best moves you can make. And some people come off so clean with integrity that you will never tag them as a traitor Like that John guy from last season and after the 1st banishment no one suspected him.
Downside of this is being a solidified faithful puts you to be murdered.
If I ever played traitor or a faithful I'm going to swear on everything, because it's such an op move, if you're not doing that at this point it makes me think you are bad at this game.
2. Traitors blowing up another traitors game.
You had seasons were people did not target another traitor because they were afraid they would blow up their game. You had people doing weird stares, underlining names, or Dan blowing up Phaedra's last time before he even went to banishment he said "I'll give you a traitor", since everyone knew he was a traitor even though no one would've guessed her, unless it was a traitor, and there's nothing she could do to prevent that because if the other traitor does not want you, you are screwed.)
That's why if you don't put the fear of God into your fellow traitors, you are making a bad move. It's a like a mutual assured destruction. Both have finger on the nuke, they blow your game you blow theirs up.
3. Players playing like it's survivor and getting rid of people they don't like, it's not in the spirit of finding traitors. Or just getting rid of faithfuls at the end just to increase the prize pot.
4. No incentive to find traitors since they'll just be recruited.
5. The traitor picks are always people that would make great tv, people from strategic backgrounds, bb, survivor. The fairest would be for a random number generator, and perhaps if someone is picked a traitor they don't want, they can decline it and that role is then re number generated to another player.
I'd like a Superman where he's being proactive, rather than reactive.
I'd love a film with Supes just doing fairly banal health and safety around an oil rig "shouldn't really put any boxes in front of a fire exit.." **nose exhale** "how frequently do you test your fire alarms? nooooooot great.....""
I'd like a Superman movie where he's not wasting his time playing dress up, sitting on his arse writing puff pieces for a newspaper while people around the world are in trouble and need his help. 😁
If you're ever on the traitors and make it far enough, if like every other season the last 2 - 3 people to enter the breakfast hall are faithful every time to build suspense, it'd take the fun away but mathematically if you make it far enough you'll know who they are, it just seems like a huge flaw in the show.
Love love this programme, have learnt so much.
There is a reason it is such a famous show and has done so well and continues to do so well in the ratings.
I’ve only started watching on this series of the traitors and I have to say I have so much more respect for the people who got off the train than anyone else lol
Richard’s assertion that Hollywood appears more interested in original scripts is encouraging, mainly because I hope they have finally realised they have squeezed every last drop out of the legacy IP they have been destroying, and will stop doing that.
Listening to Marina and Richard talk about Traitors makes me feel like we're living in the days of the late Roman Empire, baying for blood in the Colosseum. :(
I still think "The Mole" was a better format than "Traitors"
I'd kill for a new UK version of The Mole.
They're both good but the mole doesn't have the traitors meetings, betraying one another etc. The quizzes about the mole to see who goes works practically but is not nearly as entertaining
@@sledgehammer858 Well yeah but the point with the Mole is there is actually a way to tell who the Mole is. They are activly working against the group in challenges. Traitors are not ACTUALLY traitors, its all the same prize pot
@@sledgehammer858 I think the game itself is pretty flimsy, but The Traitors definitely excels in tension and drama. I do wonder how long that can carry the show, and I think they need to give the game a bit more depth, maybe by adding something like the other secret player roles from Werewolf/Mafia. (Maybe they've already done that, I haven't seen the new series.)
The Dutch version ("Wie is de mol") has been one of the most watched shows in the Netherlands for 25 years. It's excellent, there's even versions with English subs on RUclips.
I'm really looking forward to the UK version of "The Genius Game" this year, it will be interesting to see if it works as well as the Korean version; or if it's more of a flop like the Dutch one.
I absolutely love Richard outright saying the cast of The Traitors Australia Season 2 were idiots... He's not wrong 😂
It’s not a format issue it’s an additional layer of the game.
A new Superman film every 6 months? What??
There have been just 6 Superman films ever
4 with Christopher Reeves from 1978-87, 1 in 2006 and Man of Steel in 2013
I think he meant more "films with Superman" -- there was BvS, Justice League, cameos in Shazam and Black Adam, the Justice League directors' cut, etc. Plus all the TV shows in the background. For the general public, Superman is always around (and I'd argue the same effectively for Batman).
@solipsismworld No he didn't. But cameos and certainly off-screen cameos wouldn't count as a Superman film anyway
Love an interval! No more letting people out of the row/back in/having view blocked etc. Possibilitly people will only eat cooked food during interval (don't need those smells and noises, thanks)
snow white "has a problematic star in it" and you mention rachel zegler? least you can do is also mention gal gadot
No it's only problematic if you stand up against genocide. If you support it, you're perfectly fine.
People don't care about the war anymore, because they have their own personal issues. Rachel Zegler, however, made some questionable remarks about the movie and the original. Overall, I don't actually think Zegler's unpopularity will affect the movie's profitability either.
Big fan of Richard, but was genuinely surprised by the apparent gaps in his pop-culture knowledge, and how surprised he seemed to be about everything film-related!
Same. Hearing him say stuff like Inside Out wasn't a hit. Errmm it was considered one of Pixar's best movies when it came out and it came after a bunch of duds for them so people appreciated it even more
The magic of the The Traitors is all in the casting IMO, and I think they've missed the mark in season 3. As Marina says, the game has lost some novelty and innocence, but I also think it's a much weaker cast this year.
22:17 We haven't had a standalone Superman film since 2013. Before that it was 2006 and before _that_ were the Christopher Reeve films from the 70's & 80s.
I don't know the logigistics, but I think traitors should have to somehow sabotage the missions. (Like the gunpowder challenge). It would help the faithfuls spot them and make it more logic based
Lilo and Stitch has made a huge jump up because of all the neuro-diverse kids who watched it, saw themselves in Lilo, thought Stitch was awesome and it then it became their favourite Disney film, just in case you wonder why it has gone up in people's estimations.
The Brutalis is 3.5 hours. It's wild. It was not what I thought is was. you're not ready.
Surely the motivation for the faithfuls to find and banish the traitors is so that they themselves can become a traitor? The traitors are unlikely to be allowed to recruit if none of them are ever banished
Reoworking the show would give us The Mole, which we already have lol but i agree with most points both of you made.
A question for Richard about his latest book "We Solve Murders".
Why do you have a lowercase "i" in name when the rest of the lettering is in caps? Are you striving to become a new Will.i.am?
You're both buying into the "we're seeing the whole picture"
You're seeing the highlights - the producers *know* what they are leaving in - they're not dumb.
If do a celebrity version of the traitors I think should do mixture of celebrities and people who have done it before like Paul.
Don't understand the dislike for Avatar and Mission Impossible. They are blockbuster movies. Proper popcorn fests. Maybe it's the "movie for the common man" that get's Marina "split fiction books pre and post-war" in a tizzy.
Superb analysis.
Was in Thailand when MJ passed, that bio (if sanitised) will smash it!
I cant believe Scarlett johansson will ever be too old 😂
marina wearing her fantastic four outfit
It always amazes me when contestants get upset when they believe someone has lied to them . Honestly! It's what the game is about.
Who edited this? An action adventure film director? There's a picture change every few seconds. It's a conversation between two people, not a fight. Stop it.
Calm down dear, it's only a podcast.
I think there are some great points in this discussion. A lot that I agree with but the BBC has commissioned it's 19th series of the apprentice which is the most tired and predictable format for such a long period of time.
I think the traitors still has a long way to go before talking about a failed format
Series 1 had one functional player Wilf who was screwed when the producers exploited that he had said all along he wanted all the money, made him pick a new traitor Kieran, he had to get K voted off and so Kieran totally outed him at elimination- an unwinable situation for Wilf. Great TV, the three muppets Wilf manipulated won by being passengers on Wilfs journey.
Yeah that was ridiculous that last bit. He basically told them Wilf was a traitor which shouldn't really be a thing.
Kieran cheated and Wilf got screwed because of it
@@joevictor53 considering he screwed over both his fellow Traitors and was planning on doing the same to Kieran I can't say I felt a lot of sympathy for him.
@@philipsheppard4815- I’d say the producers were fuming with him.
Tennis has experimented with shorter sets and it’s terrible. The long sets have a pleasing rhythm, create huge stakes and make incredible comebacks possible, for example.
"Dinosaurs are really old" lol. Nice one Richard.
I can’t believe Marina left off The Thursday Murder Club movie for her recommendations! 😮😂
All you have to do to make the Traitors so, so much better is get regular people to be the shows ‘producers’ and to film them too. Then the real producers operate a level above this and control the options the slowly fraying people in the public control room.
It’s still watchable, but because everyone is watching at different speeds it’s not as fun as the old Big Brother days.
What a morning, waking up to three goalhanger podcasts.
I love the cinema experience though 2025 doesn't look like i'll be going much. It still amazes me how they can constantly make disappointing films
Hollywood, etc. has always cast actors that are way too old for the role, and then put them up against a female love interest too young to be a convincing partner. Eg. John Wayne.
Yeah, just watched To Catch a Thief where they had a 51 year old Cary Grant courting a 25 year old Grace Kelly.
@andrewz4718 you have heard of starter marriages, or marrying for money or divorce payout. We seem to have strayed from whatever this vlog is about.
12:09 the mole on Netflix is better than traitors imo, improves on your format flaws tbh, it's all anonymous even for the audience
The new series of The Traitors is very angry. Partly casting, partly the production. It doesn't make it more entertaining though, just depressing.
Another podcast (hosted by S1 players) suggested that because viewers were complaining that the challenges were boring they made them involve the Traitors more. In terms of pacing it does help people remain engaged (although personally I enjoyed them)
However, for the actual players it’s taken away the challenges as a form of team building and escape from the mind-games, which is probably why they’re more antagonistic towards each other. They now have no place to relax or form bonds, which robs the show of an element of its warmth
When is the Thursday Murder Club movie due out? Surely it doesn’t need the VFX lead time after filming?
So are the challanges they do in Traitors and Im A Celeb rigged in favour of winning or loosing depending on the stipulations of the challanges?
In some ways the flaws make the show more interesting as the series go on, as the shifting sands change how the game has to be played!
I think the biggest problem they have is that the most interesting people get voted off, and the quiet ones survive. The game punishes people who make better television.
Kevin feige is going to announce that the exclamationn mark is there to indicate that this is the film that was being made in "The Franchise"
Love Marina's takes on films. The only thing I disagree with is that they should put younger actors in the jurassic park film. What they need is competent actors and a good script. All the jurassic world films have been unwatchably bad so I do hope they put something good out that has broad appeal.
Also I thoroughly expect James Gunn's superman to be a hit. The first trailer was awesome
6:23 to some extent that doesn't happen as they have the option what to do, and the other variable that they don't have to accept
You feel like there's a new Superman movie every six months? The last movie with Superman in it at all was Black Adam in 2022, there hasn't been a film with Superman as the solo protagonist since Man of Steel in 2013. In my opinion Superman has been criminally underused in film.
Thunderbolts* is the director of Beef so I reckon it may be good
I decided to invest in Traitors this year to understand all the hype, and I’m puzzled… I mean, it’s enjoyable, but it’s incredibly basic. Just a bunch of people gossiping, then randomly guessing who the people voting someone out might be? Also, I don’t understand why when the Traitors eliminate someone it’s called “murder”, yet it’s not when the Faithfuls element someone. The net result is identical; the chosen individual is out of the game. Finally, I’m a big fan a Claudia Winkleman, but the praise bestowed upon her for this series also puzzles me. She does very little other than periodical appear and spout a few one-liners. Is there something deeper or more clever in this series I’m missing? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had a similar view on the simplicity in the first series, but it gets very good about halfway through when there's far fewer players. It's an interesting view into human behaviour, psychological scheming, and greed. When there's fewer players and the percentage of all players who are traitors goes up it becomes interesting to see how those with easy routes to money allow greed to take over. I'd also say that when it first came on it was a breath of fresh air in the 'reality' genre, as it wasn't 24 highly 'instagramable' people. I don't entirely understand your issue with the naming of murders and banishment. I think it's just so the show can distinguish the two things for the audience, and for a bit of murder mystery theatre, nothing deeper than that.
@@fraserwebster8761 Appreciate the feedback, thank you! I'll learn from your experience and as you've explained, perhaps the psychological element will get more interesting as the players are weaned out 🙂
Yeah my first time watching also and I have similar feelings. It seems a game that's very reliant on its own concept if that makes sense, ie. the only topic of conversation people have is whether someone's a traitor or not. I remember big brother in the early years would have certain tasks were a couple of people would have to sabotage it or something so it seems like that but without the variety of all the other stuff.
Also it's very overdramatic as is Claudia Winkleman which I know is deliberate but still...
Having said all that it does keep me entertained for an hour and makes me look forward to the next episode which is impressive
Nope, there is nothing deeper about it, it's shite! 😂
I haven't watched the latest series yet, waiting for it to end so I can binge so I've no idea what they have done. I feared they were going to mess with the insanely brilliant format because they couldn't help themselves. I think it was the American one where the contestants (maybe B-celebs, not sure) were all vying for the most camera time so it was quite exhausting to watch and more like a "Housewives of" vibe to it so not as good. I hope the Brit contestant don't start doing that. I'll watch this pod after I've seen Traitors.
Best Disney Princess is of course Leia.
Prepare for the rage of all comic nerds with that "someone else in the suit" line.
I really enjoyed it last time. Not bothered this year. Feel it was almost perfect last year so why bother again? Maybe had they left it another 12 months I’d have been more interested
Superman is coming 🎉. It’s D.C. Time 🎉🎉🎉
Blimey, a lot of New Year energy. Slow down a little please.
'Bring me all the way up here'? Sounds like you think Scotland's the North Pole or something, it's 4 hours on the bloody motorway.
The problem is they have to make so many episodes so they can get to the final, so it doesn’t make sense to get the traitors out at the beginning as they will just recruit 🤷🏻♀️so doesn’t really make sense as a logical game
10:12 would you agree that’s as a direct result of Mollie storming off the set? That didn’t happen on the first year
Hasn't Mickey17 been pretty much written off by it's studio? I think it's been on a shelf for 18 months
If there were a limited number of traitors per series, it might work better. Getting rid of a traitor only for them to be replaced with another one seems pointless (pardon the pun). It doesn't really achieve anything for the "faithful".
Agree, but they can't do that because if all 3 traitors were voted out straight away, then the show would end early and the BBC would have no episodes to show.
@@rebeccasmalley7601 Yes, that is one of the flaws. It could either last a couple of days or a few weeks lol
Why are the early games in a set of tennis meaningless? I didnt get that parallel
Re the brutalist chat- Love the Jason Statham ref! Dont understand Why do people hate long movies so much. More the merrier for me!
My piles start playing up.
@michaelsamwise1 good point. I would advise Cinemas start selling anusol alongside the popcorn due to movies getting longer...
I'll need that intermission to empty my thimble-sized bladder
Sorry to say that I don’t feel that way. I was talked into trying it this series…..I found it irritating and tedious 🙁☹️
LILO and stitch is nostalgic
Please comment at some stage on The Hunted, if allowed, as I think the contestants are at too much of a disadvantage.
You don't need the clickbait titles, better than that. Edit - someone in the final three into breakfast can be a Traitor.
It's not clickbait. It's what they discuss in the video....
@@samwalker2367 'Failed as a format' is not what they talk about, though is it? They both love the show but point out flaws.
@@jonno209 it says "has" they're asking the question. Which is answered in the video.
Richard also makes a couple of odd comments - Traitors in Canada has two versions, and both had a 2024 season. Also in Canada S2, they had three traitors for the entire series, which defies the idea of the first episodes being meaningless.
Is anyone like me coming in fresh at series 3 and feeling disappointed? There's so much backstory I feel like I've missed the boat. It's still watchable and moreish but kind of lame because the contestants mainly aren't that clever and come up with stupid reasons as to why someone is a traitor. I thought it would be smarter. Big Brother 1 was much better for intrigue.
My idea would be to have a Traitors made up of detectives or psychologists and see if "experts" are any better at detecting the traitors. They'd have to be retired I guess or it could be career ending 😂
If you wait til traitors on iplayer you can watch each episode in 20 mins flat and that's being generous
The year ahead in movies seems depressing. None of those discussed seem interesting to me except for The Brutalist.
I think it'd be interesting to see Tom Cruise move into the same space as Hugh Grant. Leave the hero of the hour typecast (like HG did with the bumbling English eligible bachelor trope) and move into older roles. Straighter. Even dark / evil. Think he'd be good. If he's up for it. If he doesn't mind not playing the good guy
He's busy being evil in real life.
He tried that with Magnolia. He was amazing, but the Church of Scientology/David Miscavage didn't like it.
Osman needs to wind his neck in. He repeatedly talks about how the Traitors end up getting replaced after a couple of weeks. Did he not watch Season 2 😂😂😂😂😂