BOOM! American Magic explode sail control wars!
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- The boomless mainsheet was key to Cup success in AC36... but to win in Barcelona the teams will have to push this development further. American Magic seem to have made the first new step to cleaning the deck airflow, but how does this additional traveller car aid the system?
Recon video and photos credit to Recon Photographer / @America's Cup
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AC is 5 times better bc of Mozzy!
yup. always happy when I go on RUclips and see Mozzy has released a new video
No, tenntimes better!
Definitely has to be to support the master ram. One of the first things I noticed on the official AC video was how much less “bulbous” the lower leach on patriot was. Also brings the weight of the master cylinder forward which will help with weight distribution. Great work Mozzy!
Would also add that American Magic’s tactic of refining their legacy AC as much as possible is probably the smartest of all the teams so far. Once you perfect the last generation then it really only leaves design innovation which should result in minimal “debugging” time when they commission their race boat. The team to watch!
Yup, that's my take, too. Fairs up the trailing edge and lowers CM, without much (any?) added overall complexity, so a win.
@womas I'd argue the opposite. You want the most time to debug and change anything new so do your innovations as early as possible. Refinements to anything you know already works is a secondary priority that you would fit in around your main innovations.
Somewhat off topic GP50 competition tonight 1/13 9:30pm Pacific time USA. www.youtube.com/@SailGP
Looks light winds. Who is your money on?
Looks like it is used to induce boom bend. The video at 10:19 shows them adjusting inducing more bend into the boom and then moving it separately. This would allow adjusting the camber of the sail and giving it a larger aspect ratio while still maintaining the same sail twist to support the leach. Normally you would induce more sail twist, that is, move it lower in the sail to support the leach of the sail. I suspect this allows them to induce less twist at any given wind speed and putting more sail to work powering the boat. When you see the sail 'jump' in adjustment at 10:20, the boom appears to be to have more bend when it stops moving around. That should more the center of force aft but move the twist up the sail. I'm not sure why you would do that beyond trimming the boat. The usual mainsail trimming is to move the center of effort as far forward as possible. I suspect that it provides a difference in trimming of the foils, allowing a much better, and thus faster profile of the foils. Just a guess.
An excellent pick up, nice work! Perhaps they have switched from a pull ram pulling down between the Clews and the track to a push ram that is anchored at the traveller car and pushing the mainsheet end forward to tighten the sheet? Hydraulics says that a cylinder can push more than it can pull so maybe they can get faster response or use a smaller and lighter cylinder? Excellent analysis as always. Can't wait for the next development!
It's true that an hydraulic ram can exert a greater pushing force, but all of the rams I've seen in the AC are very slender, and would therefore buckle in compression at a much lower load - so I think they are always used as pull-only, apart from the stubbier ones used for the foil arms, which have to be double-acting to cope with the loads.
Team New Zealand shod build their hol deck made out of the sales like materials.
The double traveller could be set to "flap" the lower half of main sheet.. in this way they can modify the curve of the profile more carefully... and of course the boom also host the main ram as you said in order to improve profile efficency in the lower part of main sail.
this was my thought also. looks like there is a kink in the sail there in the footage at the end, like the flap is on
Great work as always. It's pretty obvious that the second track isn't taking any load but just acting as a sliding support for that new mini-boom they have stowed away in the padded bag. The mini boom is now home to the controls of the sail as you mentioned making the package more aero and lowering the CoG.
I agree with your conclusion. The bouncing way when it moves is then also explained becasue you have two lines over the dek with some distance and when under the same pressure the smallest of differential in forces make it go bounciing. Also the mast rotation control which they are playing with is great stuff. It shows that the American team is underway and can ask questions on the tweaking level where other campains only seems to trying to get the boat foiling.
I've got no idea what the hell is going on, but I'm loving it😄
Bravo! Great eye, I agree it makes perfect sense that they put they ram parallel to the deck!
No question in my mind that this mid-main track serves only as a non-load-bearing travel support for something. Whatever it’s carrying puts a nasty kink in the sail shape at the foot. I put it in the category of kludge until more information becomes available. In theory this allows for a more aerodynamic exit of airflow at (and slightly above) the clew, but with such a long and rigid piece of equipment interfering with the sail shape near the deck, it will be interesting to see whether there’s a net benefit, or if in the end the mid-main track becomes a throw away engineering test.
Another excellent analysis Mozzy. Yes, agree with you, a relocation of the main sheet ram, but what advantage it gives them, lord knows. It may give them the ability to put a slight “twist” at the leach?
I know almost zero about sailing but I love these videos. Is it safe to say that there are teams of geniuses (like MIT-type techno-engineers) working on these sorts of boats? From what I see it looks like they are giant research platforms, creating and testing tech in real world conditions. This sort of thing looks like there must be a LOT of money being invested. I have to wonder if there aren't big pockets trying to figure out a way to improve wind power generation for the power grid - or are they just philanthropists?
Interesting lowers the COG and there should be a reduction in drag if they can close up the two skins ultimately at the trailing edge. It's hard to see that they have achieved this yet. It does beg the question will the main ram be attached to the the aft of the mast under the deck in the next gen of boats with a long pair of main sheets. What would be the effect of having two main sheets and ram's and being able to control each leach tension separately in a very subtle way ?
The skin I think are closer, but it's quite a dynamic part of the boat, and as the skins are often offset it's hard to tell with perspective what is offset in outhauls causing the ga and what is pureplay a ga between the skins. They do still have the outhaul hydraulics up higher between the skins, so it's not a total elimination, but a step forward
@@MozzySails It should also reduce longitudinal pitch a tiny amount I would guess.
I think you're spot on, and the lighter, forward carrier just supports the ram - but the forward end of the ram presumably has to tie in to the base of the mast, since that lightweight carrier surely doesn't take the ram forces. I hope recon video sheds some light on it, you'd think they'd have to set it up before installing the mainsail.
Hrmm are internal multi cams illegal in the main sail? Why else would everyone still be using such obsolete low Cl airfoils giving half the lift for same amount of drag and with lower AoA = less lift pointed in direction of motion.
👍🏼
They are manipulating the angle of the leach of the sail. This gives them the capability of manipulating controlling the all variations of hooked, flat or open. Similar to how the mast is doing the same for the luff.
I think you are right about the configuration they chose for the main hydraulic actuator. I think the sheeting angle in this configuration changes acording to the pitch angle of the trav car.
Mozzy he's only bloody gone and blown the roof of it again
What a fantastic snoop you are,…..love the channel keep it coming.
Thanks, will do!
I think it's both maybe. Good reconnaissance.
what’s happening with them NZ we don’t see to hear anything about the defenders
excellent work Mozzy - as always
Much appreciated
Like you said, looks like a guide more than anything else.
Or, they had some ‘sticking’ of whatever is under the shroud and had to add a track and related bearings to remove the ‘sticking’
If there was nothing at that point of the sail, what would be sticking? Adding mechanics would only add to possible sticking, not decrease it. Without whatever is between the skins at the new track, would have only had the sail material to drag across the deck... no sticking.
that's 13 minutes I'll never get back
Think it is like a boom vang and controls mast bend and moves in sync with the main sheets
It's definitely not a boom, but it could be a mast 🤣
😂
I'd say master ram carrier. Look at the video when it moves how it always lacks behind. Could be cause of its mass dangling around
Thanks for the reporting and insights Mozzy. I'm guessing that the deck level track is, as you say, just a supporting car for that padded boom or, more correctly, its a 'club'. BUT if so, why is the boom not on it but sat on another cradle? AND....Hydraulic rams must either push or pull AGAINST something. That means they need an anchor point to 'ground' them to the boat, the mast, something fixed. But I don't see what that ram is anchored to. It seems free floating , certainly on the forward end. True, it is anchored to the big 'mainsheet' track on the aft end but how exactly are the forces of the ram being applied? Its more questions, not answers!
Well there is rail and linear motor at the back. Similar to cnc machines
The 2021 America's Cup was the first time I got into sailing. With every video I watch about these amazing boats, they get more and more interesting. But the more I learn about them and their technology, the less I understand how they are sailed and the effects all these devices have. Definetly underestimated how complicated those things are.
Anyways, is there a good, really in-depth video or article explaining everyy single bit on such a boat? As a non-sailor I could really use that...
Thank you for your videos though, really enjoy them and the challenge to make them sense for me as an absolute newbie.
That really awesome to hear, so glad we could be part of what's brought you to the sport. I think a lot of my channel viewers are pretty techy, but not all sail. I will be trying to mix in a few more basic principles video as a gateway to those coming other from motorsport / aviation to get a bit more understanding of what the 'game is'.
Good news is we're still 18+ months out from the Cup, so we've started a lot earlier to get more build up content in. Hopefully I can do it all justice!
@@MozzySails Really cool man! Really looking forward to the upcoming content. Really like how you engage with the community.
Moreover, I think some basic “gateway” videos for outsiders or newbies like me will not only help more people fall in love with the sport and the yachts, but also bring you (well deserved) traffic for your channel! 🤝😄
Could it be to remove weight from the aft leech tp avoid excessive tension in light winds?
Yes good point, that would be another benefit
100% a support carrier for the master ram. Ram going down brings CoG marginally lower, but also allows them to have a more fair exit on the leech of the sail at lower draft settings. The carrier is almost certainly an attempt to reduce drag while carrying the ram as close to the deck as possible. Interesting solution as it definitely adds a lot of drag to that fairing, I imagine it's not a permanent installation
The track is straight, unlike the main traveller which is optimally curved (also with car articulation); so is probably only a carrier that does not need to efficiently accommodate rig rotation. This could be a further clue to its use? However the video does show some 'sticking' when sail is eased to leeward, therefore suggesting it is not responding well to easing or 'rotation', and has some vertical loading. Does this help or hinder your current conclusion ?
Post thought : It may have to be straight to align with a suitably strong mounting structure - and perhaps, if it works well, a curved track may manifest later after beefing-up deck structure.
You got it. Refining the system.
Great analysis. Lots to suggest this is just an equipment keeper: that's relatively low load track (32mm?). with no load-aligning pivot, so wouldn't be up to leech loads. There are no control ears/lines so it's designed to move passively along the track. Seems like a lot to make a slimmer clew and lower the CG a bit, but stranger things have happened. Your channel is excellent and a lot better than siftring through forums!
Every bit as fascinating as it is baffling😂
I can't tell you how long I spent starring at it!
A serious piece of sleuthing
How about the thought of a flexible boom. Like a spine with smaller rams controlling either site of the spine. Maybe boomless cq no-boom isn't the best solution. Even a independent trim/tension control by a slot in the spine could be feasable. But that is a suggestion not a current state of development.
Relocating the ram horizontally opens up a ton of real estate. That long carbon cover piece could even house some control lines with extra purchase, allowing for a longer, lighter ram.
You should be designing high-tech racing yachts. Seriously.
The carrier is at the wrong angle (if fixed, as shown in the previous shot). I think yr right on what it is but could be setup different eg. The block is down by the traveller.
Like your hypothesis.
I wonder if the forward track is to allow side support for the rear ram holder to lower binding as it is engaged with the boom. Perhaps it could also allow control of boom flexibility to better shape the wing sail?
If it is used to tighten the bottom of the sail, it can pull from the back pivot point. Since it is reinforced there is no need to have the second track reinforced as it just needs to hold the weight and keep it in line with the sail.
What is the semi circlar thing just outboard of the helm?
not sure but I noticed that too. Looks like a serious brass bearing surface. It might be something to do with Patriots old configuration from the last cup.
Bozo in the way.
Pretty sure that new track is just a carrier for that new fairing and the leech ram hydraulics.
I haven’t a clew
Overthinking
Since when is American magic boomless?
I must've absolutely missed it
You did! When they relaunched Patriot they had already made a raft of updates including:
- self tacking jib
- backstays removed
- bowsprit removed
- boomless (ETNZ style)
Then in November they added cyclors.
And now refining the boomless setup
@@MozzySails cheers for the fast answer!
A crutch for the outhaul/mainsheet rams seems likely.
Been meaning to ask. You mentioned w/kg for the cyclist a few videos ago. I ride a lot and know what that means. But, does it matter on a stationary bike? You don't have to move the kg. Wouldn't total watts matter more? I am sure the KG matters as a total impact on the boat's weight, but I would suspect total watts is more meaningful. I ask because I would like to know what their average watts are.
You're quite correct that only total watts count. I think when I was discussing w/kg I was back calculating total watts for on of the INEOS guys (probably Neil Hunter) on a known climb that I also rode. And also putting the performance in context of pro cyclists where w/kg is, like you say a much referenced metric.
@@MozzySails First off, my American ears are finally getting used to your accent. Great insight on the Cup. Keep it up.
Second, I would think that FTP is a more meaningful number as a cyclist on an LEQ12. My FTP is 265, which I have delivered for a solid hour, went down the mountain, and then went back and did it again. Knowing how much they can put out for a longer period of time, I suspect, is how they selected the cyclist.
@@ThePaulbself possibly, races will last 20 minutes, but 20 minute power is closely related and often used as a test protocol. The climb in question was 30 minutes.
What we don't really know is how steady the output needs to be. It could be more like a critical than a TT
Agree with your conclusion, ram re- positioned to deck level. @10:32 and your contrast improved photo at the end, when looking along the mainsail foot it's clear the new 'Boom' is forming a straight foot section for 2m forward of the clew then the foot curves towards to the mast base. @ 10:09 along the foot of the main starting at the port side of the mast base it looks like a control wiring coming back along the deck to towards the main, except it curves and appears to run inside the curving foot of the sail. PS. Crew are clearly standing behind the clew to prevent photographer getting a good look at this system.
great additional points, I think you're right
Absolutely Brilliant 👍🏽 You’ve convinced me! No Mozzy no AC .
Great to hear!
Excellent eagles eye. For which team are you spying 🙂. It seems to me more of a shape control of the mainsail. But why not fix it to the mast? Now it seems more square and sticky and less natural. Either that or a hydraulic efficiency thing.
I am spying for you lot 😁
I don't know for sure, but I suspect one, or more, other AmCup Teams will think they are cheating.
that's often the response! the other response is just to copy!
I feel like i could sit with you looking at AC boats or f1 cars and talk for days. I LOVE this kind of stuff and i feel like me and you would connect over that like we'd been friends for years
Ha, that's great to hear. Hopefully you'll enjoy this Cup cycle along with me
Very interesting. I go with your perspective , I think that they are focusing on cleaning up the trailing edge of the sail(s). Re-positioning the large ram appears to contribute rather a lot to this end. But it does make one wonder why they didn't do the same for the two smaller rams, and indeed why they have not taken all these controls 'below' deck, but I guess there are reasons.
I think Mozzy explained why not under the deck. They want the deck as low as possible.
Thanks Mozzy. Your videos provide quality and intrigue and cover some cool things! Really appreciate them.
I think you are right, that it is just the ram carrier. Interested to know what they have it secured to... base of the mast? Surely it would end up out of alignment with the sail shape. Seems a good thing to experiment with tho.
I appreciate that!
Yes I am sure you are on the money, but would require compression bar/bars to take the load when tension is applied.
Really enjoy your work.
Very true. It will be interesting to see under that fabric cover to see how it links to the turning point at the traveller
I don’t see how the main sheet ram is fixed. It needs to be prevented from moving back and forth and that track looks to be not sufficent to handle the loads.
the ram will be fixed relative to the traveller car. It can then work like a hydraulic bearing extractor, where the traveller car is the shell and the bearing being pulled is the mainsheet line. The ram will pull the line which pushing back against the traveller car. The whole thing is otherwise free floating and just needs this second carrier to support it's weight and prevent damage to the deck.... hard to explain in words!
It's a jiggermathing.
The technology in these boats is pretty wild
If it is the primary mainsheets control, where is the fixed end of the ram attached? There would need to be a line from the fixed end of the ram forward to the mast base. Any evidence of that?
the ram would be fixed to the turning point on the traveller. It would push / pull against that. It would work like a bearing puller. It just has to move the sheet relative to the traveller turning point, so only needs to be fixed relative to that.
www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parla-tech.com%2Fhydraulic-push-pullers.php&psig=AOvVaw2AY2pxA9T-1ba6P_MePAY4&ust=1673617327735000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCJCqwsSUwvwCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAH
It means that whatever rest on that cradle will slide back an fort? Should the craddle not be able to also rotate? And what is the use for the craddle to pivot? Would it make sense to attach the ram to the boom?
Answering to myself: the ram is to long to be attached at the boom, that's where the sail is most curved
5:22 bit confused with that massively overpowered x3 400hp mercury setup on the rigid inflatable sitting next to the ac boat. Was that just for storage purposes or was someone intending to take that out for a spin with that setup ??
They certainly weren't willing to be underpowered chasing those speed demons.
Power needed to push heavily loaded rib at 50+ Kn. The rib is primarily a TOW boat needed to maneuver and sometimes “rescue/recover” the yacht. Propellor surface area equals torque +/- , outboard prop diameter is limited thus more engines to control heavy vessel .
Loved your idea.. seems most elegant and likely.. keep it up!
Thank you! Cheers!
Does the track holding the carrier for the mainsheet ram look beefy enough given the forces it will seek to apply? Does the cylinder merely rest under tension in the carrier, or might there be another half of the carrier that is fitted over the cylinder? Any chance of the traveller and the new carrier getting out of alignment (eg new car jams?). Good to see some innovation hitting the water.
I don't think any forces will be applied through the track, except supporting the weight of the ram. The ram will push and pull against the traveller and the turning point for the split mainsheets. That said, I would expect they have some retaining string that goes over the ram once it's resting in that support to stop it falling out in a capsize or during quick movements
@@MozzySails I'd think the forces are going to be significant (the size of the ram being a indicator to me), part of the intention may be to distribute the existing forces over more components, perhaps intending to provide an improvement in the function (weight distribution (as you say), but also speed, strength...) of this end of the rigging. Being a modification rather than an element designed & constructed from the get-go, we're more likely to be seeing them merely bolting components on to the deck to determine the suitability of such an innovation. That the scale of the main traveler may be reduced (though unlikely), or the forces increased on the components that were previously contained in the clew because part of those forces now go to the track & deck..
I don't think it can be for the main sheet ram as what is the other end of the ram attached too?? What is it pulling against?? It can't be strops fwd to the mast as there is too much camber in the mast for this I think??
the ram won't be pulling against anything, it will be pulling a line through the traveller turning point, but also fixed to and pushed against that. It would work a bit like a crank puller does, if you've ever used one of them
@@MozzySails ahhh, that makes sense, thank you!! that makes perfect sense with the "padded boom thing" holding/hiding the mainsheet ram, turning blocks and traveller/ram attachement
Excellent detective work!
Glad you liked it!
I noticed the radius of the new travelling support on the deck appears to be the same or similar radius of the former support for the main ram. Nevertheless, I enjoy the spy vs spy (I'm a product of the 50's and 60's, don't judge.) nature of this process. Keep up the good work.
Great detective work
thanks Charlotte
Great explanation as always.
Glad you liked it!
The forward track appears to be a means to controlling the linear displacement of the mainsheet ram from the aft traveller car, as well as supporting the front end of the ram. If it simply pivoted from a point on the centreline, then its effectiveness in ram extension terms (athwartships displacement capability) then as the pivot angle from the centreline increases, the effective component allowing athwartship movement (and indeed power too) is reduced sinusoidally. This facility, does it have the tendency to jamb up? geometrically, and with the load on the sail, it should find path of least resistance (provided it's not constrained by hydraulics etc??) I guess a clue to this is that the forward track is linear in shape. Certainly if the assembly is anti-jamb in its operation, then it would seem that there are a number of opportunities to configure this arrangement in many ways. It looks complicated but it certainly takes the bulk of mass and complexity away from the clew area of the mainsail.
As you say, if the forward traveller is non-constrained, then because of the loads pulling the ram back aftwards, then the forward car should alwas return to the shortest displacement between main and secondary track. That being the case, the hydraulic travel is maximised (in terms of adjustment of the clew downhaul / mainsheet arrangements
My main question, if our theory is correct, is "what holds the ram assembly forwards in a fixed state to allow the ram to tension the clew mainsheet?" If indeed the front car is free to travel then what "preventer" is used to secure the ram??
Actually, what I meant to also say too is the forward track is needed to equalise the effective clew tensioning irrespective of main traveller angle. If the arm simply pivotted from a point on the CL, it would tighten up the whole assembly when the main is off centreline.
Geometrically, as the boom goes off the centreline, the way this system will work (without adjustment of the ram) is that the system will actually ease-off as it departs from CL
I did't get a good look at the plan view geometry of the main traveller track. I'm assuming it is curved to the same radii as the clew-tack length. I did notice that the track is curved upwards at its outer meaning that it will self-tack without constraint through manoevres.. very necessary. Looking at the footage, it's not going to be a given that the asembly travels freely under load, even with a frictionless (well as much as possible) pivot on both travellers