You're in luck! Regarding the moving platform which comes down when the lift is levelling, how does that work? Is there a pin that comes up to push the moving platform up?
@@MichalM I can answer that one - it's a solenoid. When it's unpowered, then the table is down on the contacts. When it's powered (see 5:35 - the 2E relay), then the solenoid raises it whilst travelling. A sideways view is here: ruclips.net/video/M1vb-sm8Dcg/видео.html (also see 11:25 in that video)
They were always referred to as vanes and that platform is the levelling ring or LV. The inner track on a vane controls the actual levelling and stop. A poorly adjusted job can overshoot on stopping and the contacts the other end of that track will cause a reverse and relevel. The outer track on the vane carries the door zone contacts. The doors will only operate when the lift is in that zone. These contacts are operated by the vane but don’t electrically connect to it. All modern technology when I joined Otis in 1965.
Great Video worked for Otis for 45 years put many of these lifts in and replaced a good few. these lifts were top of the range in there day and could and do last for over fifty years if well looked after.
Nice view of the flow selector in action. What a piece of machinery, replicating the shaft and the car (sort of) to do all the logic. People would tell, "tons of moving part, many things can fail" .... but since this was pure quality, this wasnt the case. If not, it wont be still running till these days. Using a generator .... this is pretty good solution to control a big motor accurately. I have watch a vid about the speed war of the lifts that high speed needed a certain profile of de-acceleration to make the passenger confortable. It wasnt just a two speed, but a certain curve of variation. They obtained this with a machined rod going in and out of an inductor and this was traduced into field control for the genset to control the actual DC. The time where power electronics were unknown.
Absolutely fascinating!!! I re-wound parts of the video to watch the relay sequence a few times - to think all this is now contained in a minute chip!! Can't wait for the detailed explanation (I have some idea's, but want to see if I am correct!) Thank you for your wonderfully detailed videos - they are the next best thing to actually being there!
I remember exploring an Otis machine room just like this in one of my buildings at university (a carelessly unlocked door!) and was in awe of it. It was actually even more complex as it was an Autotronic system so there was a giant relay computer dispatching the cars. You have to hand it to the men who came up with that system, and the fact that the job of all of that stuff can all be done with a few chips and circuit boards these days.
FANTASTIC!!!! Your effort always shows, and this is NO exception! Can't wait for the explanation of the floor selector and how the disks operate. Nothing like carbon and copper (brass).
Thanks for taking the time to edit these videos so well. I look forward to more detail on the operation - As an older Electrician I learned relay logic in open cut coal mines in Victoria, Australia, so I’ve always been much more interested in what is now termed ‘old school’ than PLC’s and Microprocessors although I have been dragged into the 21’st century and now program such things for a living these days. 👍
Beautiful machine. Working on it might be a nightmare, but i'm willing to bet its more reliable than the modern ones that will unfortunately replace them.
You are spot on about the stuff being installed these days. Working on it is not and was not a nightmare, you were trained on the equipment to look after it and maintain it to a high standard. Much more interesting and skilful that plugging in a diagnostic tool into a processor.
Considering all those working parts they were very reliable, and still can be but we’re living in a different age. Today’s customers expect “modern” microchip tech and the engineers that worked on these selectors have retired. There’s no call to train the newer engineers on what is regarded as obsolete. Love to see these videos though. My working life for decades! Well done Mr Matt. Great stuff and always quality.
I know! What’s going on with Otis? You’d think a company with such a rich history would have a bit more consideration towards the quality of what they make. But as with most companies now, all they care about is maximising profits.
Quite simple - everyone is on a budget. Times have changed, customers have changed, customers want the cheapest quote (with-in reason) to get the job done due to pressures with limited budgets. Better build quality means increased costs, higher quotes and this would blow them out the water when competing with other companies who are quoting the same job but for half the cost. No sales=no work=redundancies. Not a good business plan. I know what you're saying, but times have changed. Nothing's built to last these days, but you could argue that having to replace lifts more often is keeping people in work. No work, no wages.
This is great stuff, both the footage and the simplified illustrations of current paths. And it’s fascinating to watch the relay “logic” cascade through the switches when a “command” is issued. It gives an idea as to the evolution of logic circuits and why even today, as fast as they are, microprocessor logic is still not instantaneous.
We rode in an ancient lift in Budapest a few years ago. Once inside the elevator car you pushed your floor selection, and when it arrived a cam on the wall of the shaft stopped the lift by pushing the floor button out mechanically. You opened the door by hand. It was not possible to call the lift from any floor so the residents of the building always sent the lift back to the ground floor by pushing the G button as they got out. So you had to walk down by the stairs, but could ride up from the street level.
Fantastic video as always... Love the sound of the DC converters bogging down under load as the lift starts up! Also, moving parts like the Sheaves and governors have safety cages for safety. But none on the DC motors? So, it's OK to jab a finger in there? (Yeah, it's really really not!)
The brush gear should be regularly checked and it’s a bit of a pain keep taking guards off. Yes there are very exposed live parts there but the only people who should be in that room are those that know not to touch. Ideally there should be guards that are quick’n easy to take off and put back. Most guarding I’ve seen would take all your maintenance time in itself!.
Very detailed and fascinating indeed! Wish we still have this kind of old OTIS in our country, almost all old OTIS lifts from the 1970s and older in our country have been replaced into crap modern day OTIS from China :(
Amazing old technology. No chips, only relays and contacts. Purely electro-mechanical. Even the AC/DC conversion for the traction motor is done electro-mechanically by using an AC motor to spin a DC motor which acts as a generator (dynamo). The only downside of this elevator is perhaps that genset. Having to run the AC motor constantly even when the elevator is not moving wastes a lot of power. Shouldn't these shut down after some idle time ?
Hi, yes it should shut down, but during this visit it wasn't inactive for long enough for it to shutdown. Another thing is, the timing circuits are sometimes as old as the lift itself, so when the shutdown timer isn't working then the generator runs 24 hours a day, like in this video... ruclips.net/video/M1vb-sm8Dcg/видео.html FOUR generators running 24 hours a day!! These lifts have now been updated.
Interestingly, I just found out (from another elevator channel) that relay-based elevator controllers are still being made. They aren't as reliable as the old ones though due to the use of cheap Chinese relays.
They were usually set to shut down after about 30 seconds of inactivity. Lifts in busy buildings often didn’t shut down until the working staff in the place went home. There was very little power used when the generator was running without the load of running the lift machine. You might think that the carbon brushes would wear out quickly, but surprisingly they lasted for years. It didn’t take very long to change them anyway, just a mucky job, hands black with carbon dust.
Thanks very much for the comment Tijal - I do try and make them as interesting to watch as possible. I even find "myself" watching my own videos sometimes because they're interesting LOL!
Very well made and enjoyable video. I would consider this documentation of equipment that operates under a lost art. Not many guys know exactly how to work on this stuff anymore. I myself am fairly new to the trade and I am just completely fascinated by this type of equipment....not one electronic on it. All electromechanical. Nowadays its all boards. Lol. Boring!
Now I undertand why the platform drops down on the spinning disc. Seems like the point when the last contact on the spinning disc looses contact, the lift stops. Are other switches around the spinning disc the motor speed seqeunces?
You're right about the last contact, when it leaves the table. Will go through all the other switches in the next video, but there is a clue in the video thumbnail for a couple of them (door zone)
@@caroleast9636 The LV is raised so the contacts are not swiped off by the copper disk. If the LV coil goes open circuit their is a good chance of this happening. A couple of times in my career i have had to fit and adjust replacement contacts that have been swiped off. NOT a quick fix.
Cool video but there's only one thing I wish you had done, and that is to filter out the constant high frequency beeping that sounds like a smoke alarm that won't shut off.
To think all this beautiful relay and commutator logic is now done by a PLC the size of a couple of house bricks and motor control by a VSD the size of a cinder block!
I don't like the old Otis lifts. I live in an old British Military base in Germany and the Otis lift stops sometimes between the floors and the crazy thing is that both doors are unlocked. And some times there is a 1ft step(30cm). What i also don't understand how does it even unlock the doors? The lift is if i remember correctly from 1968. It is one where you have to push open the outside door, the inner one is an automatic sliding door. And of cause this never happens when somebody from Otis is there. What i noticed is that it is like when i pull the emergency stop. When i turn it on the lift just opens the inner door and unlocks the nerby outer doors. Is it maybe the switch that is bad? Same thing happens when i put pressure on the control panel, the lift suddenly stops no matter where it is. If it's between floor it helps to just press the next floor button, but sometimes he just drives to the top floor and than down again.... this lift is the wirdest ive ever encountered.
As far as i know, lifts with swing doors on the outside genrally have mechanical part in the shaft, which unlocks the outer doors when it is pushed against (this would be entirely mechanical, not electrical) really old lifts had a fixed part which would push the unlocker thing for each floor it was passing even if the lift was not stopping at that floor newer lifts have a moving part on the lift which moves outwards when the lift wants to unlock the outer door (with the exception of modern lifts, the inner door is always unlocked, even while the lift is in motion, even modern lifts dont actually lock the door, but instead there is a mechanism which restricts how far the door can be opened) Im not sure how near the lift has to be in order for the doors to unlock normally, but i would guess that if the door is unlocked with the lift more than 60cm or so from the floor, then that could indicate a problem with the locking mechanism (if the lift is set up like the second way of doing it i mentioned above, then if the lift is in an "idle" state, the outer door will unlock as long as it is close enough to the floor)
That carriage is carried up & down by a chain, like a large bicycle chain. The drive to the selector is geared to the lower chain sprocket and also to the rotation of the vertical shaft. Effectively all the moving parts are geared together and always stay in sync with each other. The gears are in the bottom of the selector’s frame. They are strong and well made. In 40+ years of working with these selectors I’ve never known any problems with them.
It will be interesting to see what questions arise from this video, looking forward to them.
You're in luck! Regarding the moving platform which comes down when the lift is levelling, how does that work? Is there a pin that comes up to push the moving platform up?
@@MichalM I can answer that one - it's a solenoid. When it's unpowered, then the table is down on the contacts. When it's powered (see 5:35 - the 2E relay), then the solenoid raises it whilst travelling. A sideways view is here: ruclips.net/video/M1vb-sm8Dcg/видео.html (also see 11:25 in that video)
@@mrmattandmrchay I've looked up what a solenoid is, and I understand what you mean now. Thanks.
@@mrmattandmrchay This is kinda off topic but...
RIP broadmoor sirens
They were always referred to as vanes and that platform is the levelling ring or LV. The inner track on a vane controls the actual levelling and stop. A poorly adjusted job can overshoot on stopping and the contacts the other end of that track will cause a reverse and relevel. The outer track on the vane carries the door zone contacts. The doors will only operate when the lift is in that zone. These contacts are operated by the vane but don’t electrically connect to it. All modern technology when I joined Otis in 1965.
Great Video worked for Otis for 45 years put many of these lifts in and replaced a good few. these lifts were top of the range in there day and could and do last for over fifty years if well looked after.
Bei ricordi, ne ho riparati parecchi!
that 2 months of editing was definitely worth it, fascinating to see the old equipment in action from all the angles!
Thanks ZZ9!
Love the slow motion, makes it much more clear to follow
yes, very interesting and revealing as to what happens and when!
Great as ever Matt.
Thanks Pete
What a great video, starting with an old building, the spooky flashing light.
Following a very interesting artwork of mechanical marvel.
That DC generator makes such an eerie sound. Could be a horror movie background noise 😁
Totaly agree!
Nice view of the flow selector in action. What a piece of machinery, replicating the shaft and the car (sort of) to do all the logic. People would tell, "tons of moving part, many things can fail" .... but since this was pure quality, this wasnt the case. If not, it wont be still running till these days. Using a generator .... this is pretty good solution to control a big motor accurately. I have watch a vid about the speed war of the lifts that high speed needed a certain profile of de-acceleration to make the passenger confortable. It wasnt just a two speed, but a certain curve of variation. They obtained this with a machined rod going in and out of an inductor and this was traduced into field control for the genset to control the actual DC. The time where power electronics were unknown.
Absolutely brilliant. I really enjoy all of your videos.
Absolutely fascinating!!! I re-wound parts of the video to watch the relay sequence a few times - to think all this is now contained in a minute chip!! Can't wait for the detailed explanation (I have some idea's, but want to see if I am correct!)
Thank you for your wonderfully detailed videos - they are the next best thing to actually being there!
Thank you very much for your kind comments Paul :)
I remember exploring an Otis machine room just like this in one of my buildings at university (a carelessly unlocked door!) and was in awe of it. It was actually even more complex as it was an Autotronic system so there was a giant relay computer dispatching the cars. You have to hand it to the men who came up with that system, and the fact that the job of all of that stuff can all be done with a few chips and circuit boards these days.
Amazing technology and amazing video! We really appreciate your hard work
Thank you Adriano! :)
FANTASTIC!!!! Your effort always shows, and this is NO exception! Can't wait for the explanation of the floor selector and how the disks operate.
Nothing like carbon and copper (brass).
Thanks for taking the time to edit these videos so well. I look forward to more detail on the operation - As an older Electrician I learned relay logic in open cut coal mines in Victoria, Australia, so I’ve always been much more interested in what is now termed ‘old school’ than PLC’s and Microprocessors although I have been dragged into the 21’st century and now program such things for a living these days. 👍
Nooo! I missed the premiere :( video was really good though, thanks mrmattandmrchay! Really enjoyed it! High quality... as always. :)
Thanks, one more part to come but I've not started it yet. Might get the Express one finished first, but as per this video, this all takes time!
Excellent video. You can tell alot went into it. Really nice to see the different camera angles all together. 😎⚡👍
Beautiful machine. Working on it might be a nightmare, but i'm willing to bet its more reliable than the modern ones that will unfortunately replace them.
You are spot on about the stuff being installed these days. Working on it is not and was not a nightmare, you were trained on the equipment to look after it and maintain it to a high standard. Much more interesting and skilful that plugging in a diagnostic tool into a processor.
Considering all those working parts they were very reliable, and still can be but we’re living in a different age.
Today’s customers expect “modern” microchip tech and the engineers that worked on these selectors have retired. There’s no call to train the newer engineers on what is regarded as obsolete.
Love to see these videos though. My working life for decades! Well done Mr Matt. Great stuff and always quality.
Software implemented in metal, switches, and relays.
I absolutely love this video ❤️ I've always wondered how the components worked together now I know!! Very cool video 👍🎉🎉🎉thank you❤
That was awesome
Love these lifts and their selectors. Far better than the crap Otis makes today
I know! What’s going on with Otis? You’d think a company with such a rich history would have a bit more consideration towards the quality of what they make. But as with most companies now, all they care about is maximising profits.
Quite simple - everyone is on a budget. Times have changed, customers have changed, customers want the cheapest quote (with-in reason) to get the job done due to pressures with limited budgets.
Better build quality means increased costs, higher quotes and this would blow them out the water when competing with other companies who are quoting the same job but for half the cost. No sales=no work=redundancies. Not a good business plan.
I know what you're saying, but times have changed. Nothing's built to last these days, but you could argue that having to replace lifts more often is keeping people in work. No work, no wages.
This is great stuff, both the footage and the simplified illustrations of current paths. And it’s fascinating to watch the relay “logic” cascade through the switches when a “command” is issued. It gives an idea as to the evolution of logic circuits and why even today, as fast as they are, microprocessor logic is still not instantaneous.
We rode in an ancient lift in Budapest a few years ago. Once inside the elevator car you pushed your floor selection, and when it arrived a cam on the wall of the shaft stopped the lift by pushing the floor button out mechanically. You opened the door by hand. It was not possible to call the lift from any floor so the residents of the building always sent the lift back to the ground floor by pushing the G button as they got out. So you had to walk down by the stairs, but could ride up from the street level.
That's amazing, but at the same time incredibly simple at the same time! But yes, without external call buttons the lift reminds where it was.
Fantastic video as always... Love the sound of the DC converters bogging down under load as the lift starts up! Also, moving parts like the Sheaves and governors have safety cages for safety. But none on the DC motors? So, it's OK to jab a finger in there? (Yeah, it's really really not!)
I noticed the AC-DC MG set bogging down too! Great sound! I bet there is a bit of brush arcing when that happens.
The brush gear should be regularly checked and it’s a bit of a pain keep taking guards off. Yes there are very exposed live parts there but the only people who should be in that room are those that know not to touch. Ideally there should be guards that are quick’n easy to take off and put back. Most guarding I’ve seen would take all your maintenance time in itself!.
It‘s an absolutely amasing Video! But what is with the second Otis Lift?
Thanks very much! It's out of order awaiting parts. I don't know much more than that.
@@mrmattandmrchay Very interesting, they must wait till 1 lift breaks before fixing the other one.
RUclips serouisly recommends stuff that need to be recommended :/ I honestly have not visited this channel in years, wow
thanks! :)
Pretty classic machinery those of place to see it is... What expect of that!
very rare to find this stuff still working in public
Part 3 is going to be amazing!
Very detailed and fascinating indeed! Wish we still have this kind of old OTIS in our country, almost all old OTIS lifts from the 1970s and older in our country have been replaced into crap modern day OTIS from China :(
My last words will probably be FE 2E 1E HX HSL stop.
awesome
Amazing old technology. No chips, only relays and contacts. Purely electro-mechanical. Even the AC/DC conversion for the traction motor is done electro-mechanically by using an AC motor to spin a DC motor which acts as a generator (dynamo).
The only downside of this elevator is perhaps that genset. Having to run the AC motor constantly even when the elevator is not moving wastes a lot of power. Shouldn't these shut down after some idle time ?
Hi, yes it should shut down, but during this visit it wasn't inactive for long enough for it to shutdown. Another thing is, the timing circuits are sometimes as old as the lift itself, so when the shutdown timer isn't working then the generator runs 24 hours a day, like in this video... ruclips.net/video/M1vb-sm8Dcg/видео.html FOUR generators running 24 hours a day!! These lifts have now been updated.
Interestingly, I just found out (from another elevator channel) that relay-based elevator controllers are still being made. They aren't as reliable as the old ones though due to the use of cheap Chinese relays.
They were usually set to shut down after about 30 seconds of inactivity. Lifts in busy buildings often didn’t shut down until the working staff in the place went home. There was very little power used when the generator was running without the load of running the lift machine. You might think that the carbon brushes would wear out quickly, but surprisingly they lasted for years. It didn’t take very long to change them anyway, just a mucky job, hands black with carbon dust.
Excellent video!
Thank you very much!
Sorry I missed it, the premiere was 2AM for me. But it is a great video!
Just found your channel, I love the old mechanics and relay logic of these sort of systems
Thanks very much for the comment Tijal - I do try and make them as interesting to watch as possible. I even find "myself" watching my own videos sometimes because they're interesting LOL!
Love them bacon slicer selecters
Aside from the video of the original World Trade Center installation, this is the best Otis motor room video
Che fantastico video!
The old bacon slicer
Very well made and enjoyable video. I would consider this documentation of equipment that operates under a lost art. Not many guys know exactly how to work on this stuff anymore. I myself am fairly new to the trade and I am just completely fascinated by this type of equipment....not one electronic on it. All electromechanical. Nowadays its all boards. Lol. Boring!
Like some of the other comments I worked for Otis for over 30 years from a family of Otis engineers going back to the 1920s
Now I undertand why the platform drops down on the spinning disc. Seems like the point when the last contact on the spinning disc looses contact, the lift stops. Are other switches around the spinning disc the motor speed seqeunces?
You're right about the last contact, when it leaves the table. Will go through all the other switches in the next video, but there is a clue in the video thumbnail for a couple of them (door zone)
The levelling ring is raised so as to pass over the vanes of floors that the lift is passing. That saves a lot of wear and tear on the contacts.
@@caroleast9636 The LV is raised so the contacts are not swiped off by the copper disk. If the LV coil goes open circuit their is a good chance of this happening. A couple of times in my career i have had to fit and adjust replacement contacts that have been swiped off. NOT a quick fix.
Cool video but there's only one thing I wish you had done, and that is to filter out the constant high frequency beeping that sounds like a smoke alarm that won't shut off.
To think all this beautiful relay and commutator logic is now done by a PLC the size of a couple of house bricks and motor control by a VSD the size of a cinder block!
I don't like the old Otis lifts. I live in an old British Military base in Germany and the Otis lift stops sometimes between the floors and the crazy thing is that both doors are unlocked. And some times there is a 1ft step(30cm).
What i also don't understand how does it even unlock the doors? The lift is if i remember correctly from 1968. It is one where you have to push open the outside door, the inner one is an automatic sliding door.
And of cause this never happens when somebody from Otis is there. What i noticed is that it is like when i pull the emergency stop. When i turn it on the lift just opens the inner door and unlocks the nerby outer doors. Is it maybe the switch that is bad? Same thing happens when i put pressure on the control panel, the lift suddenly stops no matter where it is. If it's between floor it helps to just press the next floor button, but sometimes he just drives to the top floor and than down again.... this lift is the wirdest ive ever encountered.
As far as i know, lifts with swing doors on the outside genrally have mechanical part in the shaft, which unlocks the outer doors when it is pushed against (this would be entirely mechanical, not electrical)
really old lifts had a fixed part which would push the unlocker thing for each floor it was passing even if the lift was not stopping at that floor
newer lifts have a moving part on the lift which moves outwards when the lift wants to unlock the outer door (with the exception of modern lifts, the inner door is always unlocked, even while the lift is in motion, even modern lifts dont actually lock the door, but instead there is a mechanism which restricts how far the door can be opened)
Im not sure how near the lift has to be in order for the doors to unlock normally, but i would guess that if the door is unlocked with the lift more than 60cm or so from the floor, then that could indicate a problem with the locking mechanism
(if the lift is set up like the second way of doing it i mentioned above, then if the lift is in an "idle" state, the outer door will unlock as long as it is close enough to the floor)
gutes altes Relasissteuerung 👍👍
good video
god they sound calming
yes, very nice sounding when they are running, speeding up and slowing down
@@mrmattandmrchay 6:28 wowww sooo calm sounding xD
an nice lifts thanks for about it !
How does the carriage that goes around the plates go up and down?
That carriage is carried up & down by a chain, like a large bicycle chain. The drive to the selector is geared to the lower chain sprocket and also to the rotation of the vertical shaft. Effectively all the moving parts are geared together and always stay in sync with each other. The gears are in the bottom of the selector’s frame. They are strong and well made. In 40+ years of working with these selectors I’ve never known any problems with them.
This is kinda off topic but...
RIP broadmoor sirens
I just finished work in a building downtown Calgary has 2 elevators like this and they are from 1954 but still running
I have an Otis elevator just like this. I have no idea how it works and pay a fortune for maintenance 😮
No chopper control here, no sir.
second, and nice video!!!
abridged mangoes is mean lol
100% analogue. Now they’re digital.
first
No thats the definition of shit that was built to last!!!!!!!