If it can be of any consolation, for "security reasons" they do this idiotic thing, plus x-ray bag scan, on Eurostar and spanish high speed rail as well here in Europe. It's aboslutely idiotic, and negates the biggest benefit of "show up just in time". I take high speed trains quite regularly here in italy, and I never ever arrive more than 10 minutes before departure. Frequency and flexible tickets are also key: it's not stressfull to "cut it close" and get on a train 20 seconds before it leaves if you can just get the next one in 20 minutes...
@@IndustrialParrot2816 Every time I rode with VIA, I was asked to reserve my seat. So unlike the situation with Amtrak, I was never in line stressed about getting a good seat. Mind you, both times I rode with VIA I rode business class. I haven't ridden economy.
If you're curious about this, id research the Amtrak Metropolitan/ICE proposal. I don't remember all the deets but its something like trains running every 15 minutes with different service patterns and more local stops. It's apart of the NEC future, which means things like the new Hudson tunnels and capacity upgrades will need to be done first before this happens. But its really good
@@az196823Japan's Shinkansen service runs more frequently than that on two-track lines, splitting to four tracks at stations. Of course they don't have commuter trains bumbling into their path.
Thanks for riding, Thom. I’ll take your questions and concerns to the proper people. Since i work for said company, I have to keep bias but definitely understand your statements 🐧🚂
@@PiplupJamesGood luck. Some of us have been asking these same questions for over 30 years. The folks at 1 Massachusetts Ave. are a tough bunch to change.
I think your very logical suggestions remind me of the DB train designations when I traveled there when I was in college (back in the early 1970s). Hopefully Amtrak will adopt some variation of it.
Boarding the Northeast Regional is an absurdly bad experience. It's even worse in New York City. Travelling alone, I try to use Business Class so I get an assigned seat. When travelling with family in Coach Class, the conductors try to get us seated together if we're nearer to the front of the line (or have small children). If you're at the back half of the line with family you're out of luck. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, standing and sitting in the aisles was the rule. Amtrak wisely stopped non-reserved trains but stopped short of assigned seating except for Business Class.
Well Amtrak cannot do assigned seating on Northeast Regional's because they don't know the seating for each car or how many cars will be on a given train. As it could be a little different. Until we get the new trainsets, this is going to be the case.
Pro tip in NYC, you should just board from the concourse, no need to wait in line. The track will come up onscreen and you can board from anywhere in the facility, not just Moynihan.
I'll add a few comments since I used to work for Amtrak on the NEC. Schedules - The reason there's a difference between weekday and weekend schedules is the aging tunnels just west of New York. On weekends and holidays one tube is taken out of service for badly needed maintenance. West-bounds must leave NYP between 01 and 25. East-bounds then get to run between 30 and 55. This won't change until the new tunnel opens in 10 years ... yes, that long. Another thing about scheduling on the NEC is all the many services and operators using the corridor. As a dispatcher I got to work with the scheduling group that made the schedules. Getting everything to mesh between Amtrak and the various commuter operators isn't an easy as you might think it is. Being a dispatcher I had a first hand view of the organized chaos that is the NEC. Extra clock face trains - aside from the track capacity issues Amtrak just doesn't have enough equipment to add all those trains you propose. The new Siemens Airo trainsets due to arrive in 2026 will help. One holidays Amtrak leases equipment from the various commuter operators just to add service. I actually don't see the Amfleet 1 cars going away for another 10 years. Yes, 60 year old equipment running on the NEC (Metroliner cab cars not withstanding). Boarding at major stations - if you look at old pictures of Washington Union station from the 40's, 50's and 60's you'll see long lines of people lined up at the gates. This isn't a new Amtrak policy. That waiting area is where the shops and ticket office is located today. All that stuff needs to be removed and this area returned to a waiting area. As for allowing passengers to board the trains sooner, I believe passengers are not allowed to board a train until the crew is on board. Washington based crews go on duty usually about 30 minutes prior to departure so this could be moved up but not by much. Another thing about Europe is regular track assignments. Over here track assignments can change from day to day or even hour by hour. You'll never see the yellow departure/white arrival posters you see on say DB that tells people what platform to go to.
None of these challenges are unique to the US. Other countries have multiple operators on limited tracks too. And they usually don’t even own their own tracks like Amtrak does. And not having enough equipment to properly serve an area with 51 million people is a huge political oversight. And we’ve always boarded this way is a terrible excuse. It’s not the 1940s, it’s the 2020s.
Can you explain more about your path to be a dispatcher for Amtrak NEC? I'm in the process of being a dispatcher for LIRR so I'm just seeing what are the similarities / differences? And you said you used to work for Amtrak? What happened?
Also I understand where this former dispatchers coming from. The section of the corridor between Newark & NYP is a complete cluster fuck. If something goes wrong with the current portal bridge or anyone of the Hudson tube's or a switch in the Penn Station area. Things can get really ugly really fast, new tunnels and train sets will be a big help. Also modernizing the power supply system/ constantion, catenary.
I remember when about half of what were then “Northeast Direct” trains were unreserved, meaning the fares were flat and you could ride any train. Amtrak switched to the “all reserved” model (reserved boarding, not reserved seats) for all NE Regionals in the W Bush era because it allowed them to implement airline style fare gouging to make up for the fact Washington was asking them to continue running money-losing long hauls but also taking away funding. I agree: either make the seats reserved or return to flat fares, at least for some or most trains. Clock face service patterns would be a massive improvement as well.
@@de-fault_de-fault, the entire passenger transportation industry is “money-losing”, at least in North America and Europe (not sure about Asia; perhaps they somehow succeed in running their trains profitably; I don’t know). But considering the fact that highways and aviation are heavily subsidized, and that the Northeast Corridor requires more capital investments that any other rail line in the country, it’s not truly “profitable” either, even if it does have operating surplus. If anything, profitability shouldn’t be the objective to begin with.
@@Thom-TRA, for that to happen in its fullest, the Koch family along with the entire car lobby has to go broke. Before that happens, however, at very least, something needs to be done to affect the car culture. Your channel is a significant component of this process. The point is to make the population aware of the available passenger rail and transit resources (before it becomes more realistic to ask the government to invest in what’s not yet available).
@@Scrabbleship820, living in New York and using the subway may be a reason to be on the side of good for someone who’s not under influence of the car propaganda. Unfortunately, too many New Yorkers are, and if they don’t outright support divestment from transit, they do blame the transit woes not on underinvestment but on MTA’s “corruption” and “mismanagement”, and many of the city residents who don’t own a car (or, at very least, don’t drive to Manhattan daily) are nonetheless conditioned to oppose congestion pricing. Now if regular, supposedly unbiased New Yorkers can be conditioned like that, how much more so are the influential people whose wealth comes directly from the public’s car usage, such as the Koch family! When Trump was running for the first time in 2016, I was hoping that the fact that he owns so much of Manhattan’s real estate (and is not being in the oil or auto industry) would make him as independent from the establishment as he had advertised himself. My hopes were crushed on his inauguration day when the news had leaked that his “conservative” budget-writers were preparing a budget proposal that had essentially no place for Amtrak and very limited place for transit (which even his fellow Republicans in the Senate had rejected by bringing the funding back to normal). I’m not skeptical; I still believe rail and transit renaissance is possible in the US and even already happening, albeit to limited scale. But I’m realistic enough to acknowledge that, for such a renaissance to reach the proportions sufficient to rival Europe and Asia, some serious changes need to take place within the relevant industries. Either the big oil and/or the automakers would have to go broke, or the international train manufacturers would have to dedicate more resources to grow their business in the US and lobby our government accordingly.
The one change I'd make is to consider airports as major stations and have all trains stop there. They're huge hubs, both for employment and travel, so I think EWR and BWI deserve the highest level of service, especially if Trenton and Back Bay get the faster trains as well
I had the A and B stop at the airports, just because I don’t want the expressed to be slowed down too much. After all, the advantage of trains is going downtown to downtown. Half hourly service at the airports, supplemented by commuter train service, is a better option in my opinion.
The Amtrak boarding process is the most infuriating aspect of train travel in the US. The low speeds, low frequencies, and frequent delays might be worse in an objective sense, but there are at least reasons for those outside of Amtrak's direct control. The boarding process is entirely on them and has no reason to be like that. Boarding a long-distance train in Chicago is a special kind of hell and honestly far worse an experience than I've ever had boarding a plane, and boarding the Northeast Regional in Philadelphia is only marginally less bad because since it's not a terminus, the crowds aren't quite as bad- though, then again, the only Amtrak train I've ever boarded there was a midday weekend train, so that might just be sampling bias. Honestly, and I can't believe I'm saying this, the rest of the American passenger rail system would do well to follow the example of Los Angeles. The Pacific Surfliner is the most directly comparable service to the Northeast Regional on Amtrak's entire network, and when you board that at LA Union Station, you can just walk out to the platform and get on, both as soon as they open the doors and at the last second before they close them. There's no secrecy about platform assignments, there's no holding pen, there's no waiting in line- you can literally show up at the station by light rail five minutes before your train's scheduled departure with your Amtrak app not working, run to the kiosk and buy a paper ticket, run back to the Surfliner platform, and board without issue, which I can say with confidence because I've personally done it. Good luck pulling off a SEPTA-Northeast Regional transfer like that at 30th Street.
Los Angeles is doing a lot of things right here. Later this month, Metrolink is increasing it's weekday service by 22% and going to a clock based schedule, so if you want to transfer from one Metrolink to another it's easy since almost all Metrolink trains arrive just before the half hour and leave just after it (the exact time varies by route but more than enough to go from one track to another). Connecting with the Pacific Surfliner will only be easy with the San Bernardino line since that is the only line running half hourly with trains arriving and leaving after the hour like the Surfliner does. Note that off peak San Bernardino hour based line trains only go to Covina, but having half hourly service on anything on Metrolink is quite an upgrade.
Yea boarding in Chicago Union Station (and Champaign to a smaller extent) can be quite frustrating. Similar to Thom, if I'm taking a very long distance train, I'm more understanding and can put up with it but to just get on the Hiawatha or Illini/Saluki it feels like a circus, especially when you have Metra trains immediately adjacent that during rush hour are boarding not too dissimilar numbers of people. I'm going to cut them less slack once the renovations are complete.
@@duncananderson6333 Honestly, even for long-distance trains, it's unnecessary. Those have assigned seats. Just list the seat number and car on the ticket when you buy it, and passengers can just wait in the main hall and find their seats on their own without bothering with the line and conductors hand-writing seat numbers and verbally telling you the car.
I agree with all of your comments. In the UK, I like how you can buy an “Advanced” ticket limited to a fixed time, “Off Peak” (any train during less busy times) or “Anytime” ticket. For longer journeys, a seat reservation is really important to me. I wish the NER allowed seat reservations. Bringing my family up to New York from Baltimore later this month and we hope all 6 of us can sit near each other. I would also love to see some connectivity between regional rails and Amtrak, even though they are different operators. Let me book a ticket from Odenton to JFK airport, the app would calculate a route and issue a ticket for the three train systems. Right now I have to use three different apps, and if one train is delayed, I’m kind of hosed! Also, for some reason the UK will often board trains with like 5 minute notice announcing a gate, followed by mobs of people. But with seat assignments it doesn’t really matter!
@@MattBasch and then (last time I looked) you have APOD - Advance Purchase On the Day - on CrossCountry, whereby someone who paid full open fare gets turfed out of their seat with no notice by a discount ticket holder \m/
I actually just came back from England and rode on GWR from Paddington to Bath (and Windsor) doing touristy things and it was pretty nice for the most part. I bought an advance “off-peak” ticket that could be used for any train between the stations I chose at any “off-peak” time. Only bad experience was the outgoing train to Bath I planned to take was cancelled so everybody ended up piled into the next available train an hour later and they cancelled all reserved seating because all the seats were taken and everyone else had to stand and it was pretty cramped. I did file for a “Delay Repay” claim and should be getting some money back for the cancelled train at least. Like you said, they only announce the platform number with a couple minutes notice like Amtrak does, so there was a bit of a mad rush across the station when the number appeared on the board. The train to Windsor via Slough was on Platform 14 which also required a run around the entire station as it was apparently separate from the rest. The return train was much smoother though, and the equipment was definitely more modern than Amtrak, although the seats were a tad less comfy. Was still very interesting to see the Tube, Elizabeth Line, and GWR all running at Paddington during rush hour!
Speaking of Japan's system of ticketing, usually you have a fare ticket, that calculate the fair based on the distance, this is the same no matter you take shinkansen or local trains all the way down from Tokyo to Osaka. And then, for super express trains (i.e. Shinkansen), you need an express ticket that serves as an add-on fare, if you want to take a faster train. On top of that, you want a seat reserved? You need a seat reservation ticket to have a guaranteed seat. I guess this is something that Amtrak can learn from.
@@Thom-TRANowadays most people use electronic payment cards anyway. Even on some Shinkansen lines it's now possible to use a card when you register And commuters can put the commuter ticket on the card too
It seems that you are going in the direction of turning the Northeast Regional Service into something akin to the “Special Rapid Service” on the Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe JR Line. Local trains that call at most stations on the line, and expresses that skip almost everything apart from big cities. I like where this is going very much! Thanks for the video.
At least at DC Union Station, there isn't room to wait on the platform. I think in general, it is just how big stations are traditionally designed in this country. That being said, the waiting areas in Union Station are pretty poor, tho I never have seen the lines he has. I'm guessing I haven't traveled at the busiest times.
As annoying as it is at Penn Station in New York, I kind of get why they do it there: the platform is narrow, there's a huge interchange of passengers, crew, and supplies, but it doesn't make much sense at most other main stations like South Station or Washington Union Station.
More recently in Philadelphia I've noticed that they do let us wait on the platform, but after lining up in the concourse first...so I really don't understand the rationale at that point, lol. So people line up like before, but then they let us down to the platform a good 5-10 minutes for the train arrives.
At least at DC Union Station, there’s so many commuter and Amtrak trains swapping into/ out of the narrow platforms that it could easily result in crowds forming and people falling on tracks or standing on the wrong platform for any number of reasons. A lot of the traditional spots for lines are now taken up by small retail, which is one of the ways that Amtrak brings in revenue to keep up with maintenance costs on the old building. I don’t like it, but if it keeps the train station better maintained, I’m okay with it.
I like the name "gate lice" for those people who line up at the gate before boarding the airplane. I do hate how Amtrak makes you wait until the last minute to board the train.
With air travel, I'd say the reason gate lice happens is because everyone wants to be certain that they'll get overhead bin space for their carry-ons and not be forced to gate-check them.
Thanks for this video and for all the interesting comments. I’m not an expert, but live in MD and use the Northeast Regional to get to Philly, my former home. These recommendations make sense to me, and the comments really help me understand the situation and options better.
I really like your ideas for the Northeast Regional. I wonder how much work something like this would require to have the capacity needed for all those trains. When adding in the Commuter Trains it almost seems like you could cut some of the Regional A and Regional B by adding Commuter Capacity for the more 'local' runs... assuming the "Regional Express" ran frequently enough that one could transfer to a faster train in a larger city to finish your journey. (As as example... going from Aberdeen, MD to NYC if MARC or Regional A went to Wilmington/Philly then you could get a faster train the rest of way North.)
Yes, the commuter rail is the priority, at least on the New Haven Line, which is at or near capacity during peak. Far more people ride the commuter rail than ride Amtrak.
10:00 Sure. If there was the supply available to meet the demand. Commuter trains are rarely at capacity. Amtrak is. Until more trains are rolling, this system allows for Amtrak to make some money and for people who don't have a lot of money to still take the train by waiting longer. Amtrak serves both people in poverty and people in c-suites.
Are you listening, Amtrak? All of these issues are valid and the solutions are awesome!!! Do better, Amtrak!!! And thanks for this awesome and thorough video!!!
Agree with a lot of this. Some of the other nuance as a frequent NER user is that frequency is further inconvenience by the Acela's. I think distinguishing between them when you don't offer frequent enough base service is wrong... There should indeed be a service every 15-30 min for regional trains and only then can you have a fancier train. Until then, treat all trains as having the same fare structure. Also, the regional trains have every seat labelled and it's obvious the tech exists for seat reservations. I think the only reason it isn't offer on regional trains is to create a distinction w Acela services. Then if you're travelling w a companion it is so chaotic to try and find 2 seats together, meanwhile all of these solo travellers have backpacks next to them hoping you won't be assertive enough to have them make space for you. Also the trains are always so busy! It's great to see and I wish it translated to improving the frequency etc. Maybe when the new trains go into service to replace the old Budd cars, we just keep the old ones and increase frequency... Also if we ran through trains for commuter rail service in NYC (combo LIRR/NJ transit) we could free up enough tunnel space to actually increase Amtrak frequency.
Fun fact: In Bizarro-World fashion, within Boston's corporate bounds, the Northeast Corridor is called the Southwest Corridor. In the late 1970s and early 80s, it was rebuilt and put into a trench along with the relocated Orange Line subway. Much of the right of way between Back Bay Station and Forest Hills Station in Jamaica Plain (originally intended to be I-95, aka the Southwest Expressway before that project was canceled in the early 70s) was decked and a linear park was built on that deck and on either side where it isn't decked. It's called the Southwest Corridor Park and is owned and operated as a state park by the Department of Conservation and Recreation, Massachusetts's state park agency. I used to live a block away from an undecked section and sometimes would sit on an embankment overlooking the trench and would watch the trains go by at full speed, while reading or listening to music, etc.
I can agree the boarding processes can be pretty painful at times. Occasionally I'll travel from Chicago to Ann Arbor via the Wolverine and the return trip is way less stressful due to everyone lining up on the platform and not in a long twisted airline-style gate at Union Station. Ann Arbor also has level boarding and retractable platforms that extend to the train doors which is very nice and also great for people with mobility issues. Hoping more Amtrak stations can get amenities like that, and have the boarding processes at busy stations be more streamlined. Also when I rode the Capitol Limited last month, we actually _did_ have assigned seats which I thought was interesting. I don't know if that's a new thing, something the Capitol Limited has been doing for a while, or something unique to this specific trip I was on but it does show that Amtrak can and has had assigned seats for coach class.
I'm glad you mentioned the "Flat fares, flexible ticket"...actually MARC train uses that for their trains (through the CharmPass app) it has definitely come in handy specifically when I fly into BWI and am looking for a train to get back to DC.
the whole issue with "Commuter Rail" is that it's just said, it's good for commuters but sucks for anyone else. It's about time the U.S. introduces local/regional service at a fixed fee that runs 7 days a week all day long (once an hour minimum).
So we’re just going to address a symptom of the problem instead of the actual problem? That Amtrak pretends to be an airline instead of a reliable mode of transportation…
@@dodleboper ah, thank you for clarifying. Still, given that Baltimore and DC are separate cities 40 miles apart, I totally think it’s fair to rely on the regional train.
@@Thom-TRA MARC's Northeast Corridor service is kinda like Caltrain's in how it's run, since most service runs between the two big cities (Washington and Baltimore vs. San Francisco and San Jose), and there's additional limited service to a point beyond the second major city (trains that continue onward to Perryville).
Definitely agree with you here. The northeast regional and northeast corridor has the potential to be so much better than it currently is but Amtrak and the states are too lazy to fix it, and that’s the problem for most trains across the U.S. as well.
We will all remember you, Reggie! Wait-did he die? Or did he just get a new owner? Anyways I 100% agree with you on this. They should also set up overhead wires for the MBTA commuter rail, they would just need a few more miles of it from Providence to Wickford Jct.
I take the Northeast Regional and Acela from Boston often and still show up to Back Bay station 5 minutes before departure and have always been fine. Maybe it’s just a Boston thing but we don’t seem to have that boarding issue here. At South station you can see where the train is and know which track to go to and at Back Bay its always on track 1. If I want a better seat for a longer journey south of Providence that isn’t served by the Acela where I can choose my seat I will venture up to South station to get the good window seat in the quiet car. I agree the newer dynamic pricing structure that Amtrak uses is terrible and we absolutely need half hourly service all day at the minimum.
Even at South Station it's perfectly fine to walk into the station 5 minutes before departure. I prefer waiting there to waiting at Back Bay, so I'll often go to South Station even if I have an Acela ticket.
Excellent suggestions. I'd love to see all of the changes you suggest. It would also be nice to go to a single transit card similar to what the Netherlands has that can be used on regional trains and also on local transit. This would be a huge improvement over paper tickets on Amtrak and different transit cards in every city you could get off in.
As a student currently in Newark DE, your point is absolutely correct. The stops are very infrequent throughout the day and the station remains empty for most of the day. Not to mention you might as well forget about getting good seats since they let you in quite far in the back and you have the crowd from either Baltimore or everyone from the north.
@@Thom-TRA I'm also a tunnel engineer and WMATA, the PANYNJ (PATH), TTC (Toronto) and BART are some of my clients. If you're looking for some insight on any of these transit systems, I'm happy to help if I can.
Queued Boarding was created after the 11 September 2001 Attacks. I remember Previously just walking down the Stairs to the Platforms at Penn Station (Philadelphia, 30th St., Wm. Gray III), sometimes just to watch what was coming through.
Not at Washington Union Station. It’s always been like that. As for New York’s Pennsylvania Rail Road Station, the Amtrak-used platforms are narrow and it can be a safety issue to have passengers standing down on what is treated like a terminus station, given how even through trains are paused there for quite some time.
If you mean NY Penn Station, I never bother waiting on the line there. You can go one level down, or even to the NJT area, and walk onto the platform the second the train is announced.
1:10 Roanoke spotted, woohoo! We're out in Blacksburg, dreaming that Amtrak can make it to Christiansburg even sooner than their scheduled opening in 2028.
Thom. Thanks for doing this video these are all great points that I would love to see these ideas applied to my home line the Empire Service at least for the NYP-ALB trains as I find everything you mentioned as nuisances on the Northeast Regional to apply to the Empire Service as well even as it attracts record ridership. It's so exciting to see Caltrain adopt consistent clockface schedules and stopping patterns!!
8:11 Thank You! This needs to be fixed on not just the regional but all of the Amtrak routes! I just rode the Carolinian from Philly to Charlotte and it was like mass chaos every time the train pulled into another stop. All you saw was people going up and down the aisles, trying to find seats. They even put us in assigned cars by state and there still wasn’t enough seats. It should just be a simple as pulling up to a station and you’re able to say I’m in car 5 seat 7A go to that seat and that’s it.
The NEC Amfleet trains (so not Metroliners) ran unreserved until the mid-1990s. It meant that people stood and blocked the aisles. I think the NTSB made Amtrak stop that after a derailment.
My ex GF and her daughter were on a regional and it was so crowded they could not get to the doors in time before the train left the station. The conductor was really sorry and gave her a pass to ride the next train back from the next station to her station. BTW, she was traveling with luggage and flying out of Newark.
it is very important to not let competition of trains vs flights affect service quality for local users. very few people are traveling from Boston to NY to DC that often, but commuters living on intermediary stops are your daily users - the customer base. Most trains should stop at most stops.
I agree that the Northeast Regional needs help to continue to grow and be on time with the best equipment possible and newer equipment just like with the Lake Shore Limited 48/448 and 49/449. The rails needs replacement and then improve the train stations like they did with the Worcester, MA station well over due!!!! Keep up your great videos!!! dwb
I have to say, in terms of ticketing I’m not entirely opposed to dynamic pricing with a fixed train for these kinds of long journeys. The Dutch „Intercity“ trains are more akin to regional express trains here in Germany, both in comfort and speed. I feel the northeast regional should be more of a real long distance service and more comfortable trains come with less capacity. Managing the limited capacity is very important, because standing on an intercity train sucks. Thom used the German ICE as his example at some point in the video and it has exactly the Amtrak system as the standard ticket (non-reserved seat, fixed train). There is also the option to book a flexible ticket, but it comes at a often significant upcharge. But, if you book a flexible ticket in advance because you for example land at an airport it’s usually cheaper then buying the ticket same day. I feel like this is a decent compromise between managing crowds and providing flexibility for those who need it. When traveling for personal matters choosing a train is usually no problem and I enjoy cheaper prices because of it. When traveling for business or back from a flight I’ll pay for the flexibility because that’s when I actually need it.
Small correction - I didn't cover EVERY NE Regional Variant in my song, it was too hard to find a rhyme for "Knickerbocker" :P I would add: Add at least 1-2 cars per train with commuter rail style seating. Flixbus and the like regularly undercut Amtrak on the corridor, especially DC-PHL-NYC, and having "cheap seats" would get more people on the train.
I agree! Why do some run on a slightly different schedule on Fridays and a whole lot later on Saturday and Sundays?? Not even serving the same stations in some cases?? I realize it may have to do with crew utilization, but there has to be a better way!!
An excellent review of the service pointing out potential solutions! I hope Amtrak is listening. It would also be great if the equipment was like I've seen in the UK where each seat has a "reserved" light that shows which seats are reserved and from which point to which other point so that you can easily see where the unreserved seats are on the train.
1) Yes, the pricing is insane. 2) If you're solo, no need to line up and be first in line at the big stations, but if you're travelling as a family, esp with little kids, it's horible. There are some 4 seaters, but they're always full of people by themselves. Come on, save that for families! Here's where seat reservations are huge. Amtrak could have better "family values" lol. 3) The trains are getting really rickety and loud. Gotta crank up your headphones. 4) Case in point re all your arguments, when we go from NYC (where we live) to Philly, we take NJT to SEPTA: a) It's SO MUCH cheaper. b) Doesn't take much longer. c) Way more flexible re timing. d) It runs at a reasonable predictable schedule. e) We get to pee/stretch/snack in Trenton. f) It's chiller and emptier and we can always sit together, and our kid can run around the empty train and no one cares. g) SEPTA stops at a bunch of Philly destinations, not just 30th St, so you get closer to where you want to go. h) The trains are nicer, esp those NJT double deckers. Anyways it's sad that we avoid the NE Regional so hard, but the above speaks for itself. It really sucks and could be sooo much better. Keep up the good work.
Great video Thom! One small thing I’d love to see is at least one high-level platform at Washington Union Station for the through tracks that continue south. Any NEC train from New York or Boston that continues into Virginia stops at a low level platform. Since a vast majority of the people on the train are getting off in DC, it takes 5-10 minutes for everyone to get to the platform, since all doors do not open. I know that high level platforms are not compatible with Superliners or VRE trains, but one platform for the many NEC trains would help. I remember riding from New York to Philly in the late 80’s. As soon as the track was announced there was a mad crush to get down to the platform..if you weren’t quick enough, you got to stand for the 90-minute ride. It is still like this for the NJ transit trains out of Penn Station, but I have never had a problem getting a seat.
I actually love the dynamic pricing of the NER because of how affordable it makes it when booking far in advance, combine it with a discount like share fares and I've done day trips from NYC to DC for $20 round trip per person or NYC to Philly for $10 RT. Making this a flat fare of, say $50, would make it prohibitively expensive, if you need to travel day of you can always just take a bus.
It’s not that affordable anymore, even in advance. I haven’t seen a $20 fare in months. And affordable last-minute travel in a dense corridor like this should not be a luxury reserved for the rich.
@@Thom-TRA I usually book the trains between 7PM and 7AM about 2 months out and can find plenty of $20-25 trains. The amount of money you can save from the dynamic pricing is much more than the one or two times you need to pay a lot. If train prices were 2x more expensive at a flat rate, that would mean each trip you would need to pay about $50 more round trip than at current prices, which would mean even just three regular trips would set you back $150, or about the price of ONE last minute ticket.
@@pbatransit9487 I’m glad it works like that for you, but that’s not everyone’s experience. I for one don’t have the luxury of always knowing 2 months in advance when I need to be somewhere.
@@Thom-TRA just checked amtrak and there are $20 fares as close as TWO WEEKS out (oct 29) in both directions between NYC and DC. In addition, fares are cheaper than $50 each way as close as six days out, meaning that as long as you're booking over a week in advance, dynamic pricing will typically save you money.
A video about the infrastructure needed would be great. Of course, this calls for a lot more train sets. You also eluded to dedicated platforms at the major stops and perhaps five or six tracks down the corridor are necessary. The big question is if more people will travel if it's made easier.
Hey there - great effort and thoughts and I'd like to shed some light on some of your points, which might explain why things are they way they are (I don't work for Amtrak but know people there and I myself study these issues in detail), I may not be correct on all the details, but FWIW: - I don't think you can compare the NER to the Randstad trains (I lived there too, for 11 years) because the Randstad is essentially one metropolis as far as the way people move between cities inside it. It's more like looking at Greater New York City than the US Northeast. NER/Acela are truly intercity trains, comparable to Amsterdam-Maastricht or even Frankfurt or Rotterdam-Paris. So, I think the fact that there are about two trains per hour is pretty good, and those shorter distances are served by each metro area's train systems (MARC, SEPTA, NJT, LIRR, M-N, etc). I would like to see some more of those cross state borders if demand supports it, the thing holding that back is the extreme politicization of state politics, imagine trying to get NJ and NY to agree to run their suburban services (all day long) through Manhattan to the other state. The state governments are quite literally hostile to each other, with the exception of VA/MD/DC and PA/DE. - If Amtrak is mainly an intercity service, AND remember Amtrak, in its charter, is required to try to make as much of a profit as possible, then it's reasonable that the schedules are not perfectly regular, that there are prices that vastly differ based on (limited) supply and demand, and that you have to get a ticket for a particular train, which may thus reasonably be much more expensive when much more in demand. - We would all love more frequent service, but I have heard that the NEC is more or less at capacity, with all the Amtrak and suburban services. If that is true, then we can blame the lack of investment and expansion - after all Europe and China invest trillions, the US only invests billions - There are reasons for the irregular stopping patterns, including varying demand over the course of the day, many stops are served by the suburban services during peak hours (esp. Metropark, EWR/airport..., BWI), and most importantly there is an inner and outer set of tracks between PHL and NYC, which means that necessary fast services can't get stuck on the crowded outer tracks with the commuter services. Your ideas are great, but would require both capacity expansion AND a change of attitude in this country that the intercity train service is more of a service to move the maximum number of people possible at a "reasonable" (socially friendly) price, instead of being *required* to max their profits. I think both of those are highly unlikely, given the way America "thinks"/acts as a country, this automatic assumption that long-distance transportation should be for profit (while somehow being perfectly content that urban transit can be mostly subsidized)
A lot of your points don’t make sense. -The Randstad is absolutely comparable to the Northeast. I’m from Leiden. We see ourselves as our own city, we’re not related to Amsterdam or Utrecht or anyone. A trip to another city is an intercity trip and that’s how we treat it. And the total travel time between Amsterdam and Rotterdam isn’t that much different than between New York and Philly. The New York region is a bunch of cities anchored around a core. The Randstad is NOT like that. I’m surprised that 11 years in the Netherlands left you with such a flawed understanding of how our country works. -Intercity trains make an irregular timetable a necessity? There’s absolutely no logical correlation between those two. Would you not call the German intercities long-distance trains? Those run on regular schedules. -small stops are demand based. I acknowledged as much. But read these comments. They’re full of people who wish their “small” cities would see service outside of the edges of the day. And I laugh because you talk about them as if they’re tiny villages, and not medium-sized cities that would have their own light rail systems in any other country. -yes, many of these ideas would require big infrastructure investments. Something I acknowledged but also don’t think is an outrageous ask for the most populated region in the world’s wealthiest country. But you’re missing the point of the video. I’m not talking about what’s going to happen, but what it should look like. The point is, I find it hard to imagine anyone would look at the current messy situation, then see my proposals, and think the current way is better. What happened to the America that built things? Your argument uses the existence of NJT or SEPTA trains as a reason why these ideas could never happen, as if they’re laws of nature, set in stone.
Yeah I really like that A and b and that other stopping pattern. You know it's like they need to do that because then more people would ride it. And you know they might get more people at Aberdeen Maryland and Newark delaware. And you know it just makes sense to have consistency. Matter of fact I have trains running 24 hours a day or at least close to it. I'd probably have like three or four night trains overnight that would put you into the both terminals like New York Boston Washington real early in the morning and you know it would be really a good thing. Thank you for the video.
My closest comparison to the Northeast Corridor is the West Coast Main Line in the UK. Both have commuter/intercity/regional services and mix with freight. Unfortunately, both lines are at or close to capacity. The HS2 (High Speed 2) project is there to reduce traffic on the WCML by moving its intercity services on the fast line.
I was pleasantly surprised by Amtrak California's Capitol Corridor: tickets are fixed-price and valid on any train. I arrived in Richmond 30 min before my train, and service was every 30 min at that time so I was able to just walk straight onto the train with literally no wait. It was a perfectly timed transfer that I wouldn't have been able to use if tickets had been for a specific train. As far as I can tell, all Capitol Corridor trains stop at all Amtrak stations, while long distance trains make limited stops.
The only thing I would add would be a local service pattern below the Northeast Regionals. Something similar to the Clockers. Having 7-10 round trips make all the Amtrak stops between DC and South Station would keep the people that might get screwed by the stopping patterns happy. Making them the unreserved coach trains so you can take any one of them throughout the day. I would also add some commuter style trains to have more intense services between DC and Philadelphia, Philadelphia and Stamford, and New York to Boston with unreserved coach trains running those stretches. I do like the idea of a flat fare. Living in the West Coast where the state trains run on a flat fare (in coach at least) is nice. I would say doing some same day price fluctuations might be a good idea just to spread the demand for last minute riders that might have some capacity to choose which train they could take. Like having a flat fare, then 48 hours before, trains below a certain capacity have the fares drop 20% and the same for trains with low capacity. There does need to be some mechanism to make demand spread out.
Hi Thom... @ 4:39 your B roll of Ditmars Blvd. Station on the N Line from the Amtrak on the Northeast corridor viaduct in Astoria Queens... Fun Fact: The Astoria El and the viaduct were both built in 1917 and the Ditmars Blvd platform has a canopy located underneath the viaduct, where it neither rains nor the sun shines... Think about that...🤔
Great ideas. And I believe the new Siemens trains should supplement the existing Amfleets to allow for more service as you said. Instead of ordering more new trains, upgrades should be made to the infrastructure to handle increased service. And I also have a soft spot for the Amfleets, so long may they reign. So comfortable. They make me wonder why anyone would want to fly for such a distance. The seats on newer trains will likely be narrower and less comfortable, like in newer European trains.
I think more corridors should better emulate the Northeast Regional, while taking these improvements into account. Most of the long distance routes, i think, would benefit from regional trains serving local stations along the route so the long distance trains can stop less. As an example, for the California Zephyr, I would add trains running Chicago-Omaha, Omaha-Denver, Denver-Salt Lake City, and Salt Lake City-Sacramento.
Great video Thom. I will be riding Amtrak for the first time on the 13th between Detroit and Chicago. I was shocked when I booked my tickets months ago that Amtrak doesn't allow you to reserve a chosen seat like VIA Rail does. I wouldn't mind if there was even an extra little fee to do so. Another thing that both VIA and Amtrak doesn't do is provide a route if it involves multiple trains. Instead, the route finder for both will just say, no route found or no trains found. Airlines can tell you about routes which require switching planes so it is puzzling Amtrak and VIA system does not do it.
I love this idea! I’m in this area, maybe 15-20 minutes drive from Newark, DE station, and there are so few trains that stop there, I not sure if there’s one southbound to DC at all. I’ve traveled before Ubering to Wilmington, when I came back I didn’t even know the train I picked stopped at Newark until they announced it. So I got off there and got a cheaper Uber ride home. Thank god I didn’t drive and had to go all the way to Wilmington to get my car. Haha crazy. For how busy the corridor is, I wish they’d adopt your suggestion for more frequent trains.
So, a note on fares. While the commuter railroads do charge flat fares, they often have multiple flat fares. For example, SEPTA charges more for “peak” trips (i.e. going towards Center City between 7-9am and going away from Center City between 5-7pm). That said, the point about knowing what your fare will be is still completely valid because even peak fares are posted well in advance.
I recently came to North America, and had to take 7 flights in total. Without fail, the 5 U.S.-originated flights had delays of 30-45 minutes. The one from the UK to NY, and the one from Montreal to Vancouver, were fine...
Hi Tom, Love your videos! Probably the easiest issue to fix is boarding/reserved seating. Brightline in FL has found a way to have 100% reserved seating on ALL its trains. It's all done using software. Why couldn't Amtrak do the same on the NEC? It would improve the boarding process. Even Southwest Airlines will be moving to reserved seating. As for Dynamic pricing, I get your point, but the purpose is to get people with flexible travel plans to take trains that aren't almost filled up. This leaves open seats for people who really need to be somewhere at a certain time. As far as scheduling goes, nothing is going to happen until the Gateway tunnel project is completed in 10-11 years. East of Newark you compress 4 NEC tracks into 2, then add the NJ Transit's 3 track M&E to the 2 track NEC go over the portal drawbridge (that has to open for boat traffic). I really feel for the dispatchers even when there are no problems or incidents. Until that gets fixed they'll be no schedule changes. Short term the Portal bridge is being replaced to reduce delays but will not allow any more trains.
Thank you so much for this excellent video ! I agree with all that you say about the North East Regional service, and use it whenever I travel from NYC to Baltimore. As a Senior I travel,Business Class, which is very good value, at whatever time I chose to travel ! Your suggestions about three service types is excellent, and very European ! I have a feeling Amtrak would not have sufficient rolling stock from its present allocation of Amfleet coaches, and there is the problem as you mentioned, that several services continued beyond DC, and at the moment require a change of locomotive. The new stock on order from Siemens for the North East corridor is some years away, and in the meantime it is hard to see how Amtrak can increase the frequency of the present service. I hope you receive a detailed response from Amtrak, as I am sure they will read your review with great interest ! Many thanks.
Yes. Between Philly and Harrisburg, all Amtrak trains are unreserved and have fixed prices. This even includes the Pennsylvanian as long as you only travel between Philly and Harrisburg. Any travel on the NEC to New York or west of Harrisburg is reserved. There are some other unreserved fixed rate Amtrak routes too, like the Hiawatha, and I believe the LA-San Diego section of the Pacific Surfliner used to be unreserved if it isn't still unreserved now.
The reason Amtrak can be so expensive is lack of capacity. And the reason for lack of capacity is lack of equipment (and of course, lack of track capacity in the tunnels around NYC). So the solution is obvious - get more equipment and fix the tunnels in NYC. The good news is, both of these are in progress. The new Acela trains should allow half hourly service NYC-DC and hourly service NYC-Boston. Hopefully once they get more equipment for regional trains, they will add trains there too.
I found this quite an informative video, as always! Now, I know about some of the issues with the _Northeast_ _Regional_ service: airplane-like boarding (including how the "gates" aren't even announced until 15 minutes before departure), irregular departure times, and most of the services skipping at least one station. I find your ideas on how to fix them quite interesting! Your idea of running services on a regular schedule (express every 30 minutes, local every 60 minutes) reminds me of the San Diego Trolley in my home city, where each service operates every 15 minutes. Likewise, nearly all _Pacific_ _Surfliners_ departing north from Santa Fe Depot depart at times ending with :01 (for example, 4:01, 5:01, 7:01, etc). I think such standardization (possibly facilitated by the arrival of new equipment, like the Airo trainsets) would be useful on the _Northeast_ _Regional._ Lastly, I find it quite cute that you named a dog, Reggie, after the _Regional._ Thanks for the video!
The random stopping patterns is taken straight from UK rail. UK inter-city trains work the exact same way. But UK inter-city trains do have assigned seating in 100% of 1st class and std premium and some non-reserved seats in standard class and they will overbook and force people to sit in the vestibules at least on LNER (not sure if Avanti West Coast does that). UK trains also have airline style pricing and at London termini do the same mad rush boarding where the platform is only announced 5 minutes before departure. Their long haul trains do tend to run faster on average only because passenger has priority over freight everywhere in the UK and most freight trains run at night. But the longest corridor in the UK, the WCML is about 100 miles shorter than the NEC, a London to Glasgow AWC service that's only stopping at Stafford, Crewe, Stockport, Manchester, Preston, Carlisle and Glasgow takes about 4.5 hours.
Good suggestions! I believe Amtrak has a similar variable pricing model as used by airlines, so higher prices for certain trains at popular times, less at less popular times. This perhaps reflects the fundamental difference between Amtrak and some European intercity train services: the latter are viewed more as public transit services, while Amtrak is viewed as another transport mode, competing with airlines. That difference is very clear at BWI - the last rail option to DC departs around well before 11pm; plenty of flights arrive after that. MARC should run trains later and more frequently, if the track capacity on the NE a corridor Penn line would allow it. Unfortunately the funding crisis affecting Maryland transportation infrastructure makes additional service unlikely. WMATA Metrobus used to have a bus to BWI (from Greenbelt) that I used once, but I think that disappeared.
Lack of flat rates is so stressful! Even if there were multiple standard rates, e.g. cheaper during the less popular hours of the day, it would be better. I'm trying to visit someone in DC, and tickets ranged from around $40 to literally $120 on the same date. So I'm having to plan my arrival & departure around how I can spend under $100 round-trip, and not when is actually most convenient...
This right here. If Amtrak had a standard rate I’d budget for it and they’d have 100% of my business. Now I keep checking the bus companies to see if they’re cheaper, and until Megabus croaked they usually were.
You are right about the boarding process. Why can’t you have a reserved seat. But I must say I got a reserved seat on an Acela and it was facing someone at a tiny table who was eating a sandwich and clearly had a cold. The conductor did accommodate my request to move SI nice there were other seats but it seemed absurd to put me there in the first place.
The cattle-call boarding is a special feature of originating stations. Everywhere else it's unusual for the line to get crazy. I think the main motive for keeping people off the platforms until the train is due to arrive is safety/security. They don't want staff to have to monitor people wandering off at random times. 9/11 also changed a lot. I used to have some local government business on the grounds of Baltimore Penn Station, on both sides of the tracks. Before the security crackdown, we would walk across the tracks. Occasionally someone associated with the trains would look annoyed, but all the trains stop at the station, so there's really not a safety risk to crossing right next to it. But after 9/11 we had to drive all the way around.
Great video. I'm doing a trip to the Northeast soon and really tried to make the NEC fit my plans, but it somehow ended up much cheaper AND much more convenient to get a rental car, even though I'll be going between major city centers. Your plans would fix this.
I know it would be really expensive but I think a tunnel from Long Island to Connecticut should be built and NEC trains could serve Jamaica station and JFK airport. Metro North could even be extended to serve Long Island too.
Amtrak and Metro North should start by building a station at Astoria-Ditmars which connects to the N W line. As well as a station in Sunnyside Queens. I am traveling from Queens. Why should I travel all the way into Manhattan to go back into Queens if I am traveling north to Connecticut or Boston? It is easier for me to just drive over the Throgs Neck and pick up Amtrak in New Rochelle.
@alk61695 the Regional Planning Association has said, and MTA New York City Tranist acknowledges that the demand is there for an Astoria-Ditmars stop, but the MTA determined the capacity is not there because Metro-North will be using the tracks to get to Penn Station. All of this discussion is about Tribro Rx / IBX which would basically be a subway / metro train that stops in every neighborhood along the way, but south of Astoria and north of Hell's gate, it would be using MTA owned tracks that currently only do freight. (While not critical to justifying the demand, and there is community opposition), the MTA proposes the (elevated) subway train currently below where the station would be, be extended to serve LaGuaria Airport. BRT from the stop is also proposed to transfer to the airport.
As someone who rides the train from the Hampton Roads area of Virginia to North Jersey, I noticed that you focused on improvements geared towards the Northeast Corridor areas of the Northeast Regional. South of DC, the service is much more broken when it comes to train availability, timing reliability, and ticket pricing because only a handful of NER trains continue on to Norfolk or Newport News, and all of them need to change locomotives at Union Station because the southern ends of the line aren't electrified. So, without upgrading the tracks themselves, I have 3 added recommendations that could help improve service on the southern extensions of the NER (and maybe it could help the northern extensions as well): 1.) Amtrak needs to upgrade a sizable portion of its NER rolling stock to bi-modal diesel/overhead catenary powered locomotives. Not only would this allow for a much needed increase in frequency for the far reaching stops on the Northeast Regional's route, but it would also allow for through-running at/past DC; eliminating the lengthy turn around time and confusing track changes that come with swapping entire locomotives. 2.) More day trains to Newport News and Norfolk. Right now, we have 2 trains per station on an alternating schedule between the stations; with a connector bus that takes about hour (without tunnel traffic) to connect the stations in Norfolk to Newport News. Short of building a rail tunnel under the bay, this is the best way to improve accessibility for those who can't reach a train on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay. Otherwise, potential riders would need to fight through nearly DC levels of gridlocked traffic to get there. Furthermore, increasing service to a hourly or bi-hourly schedule would definitely make trains to Richmond and DC much more appealing than a 1 or 3 hour drive to either city, respectively (again, without including rush-hour traffic). 3.) Start running Amtrak's _Night Owl_ overnight service again from Newport News to NYC. The NER is long enough that an overnight train lines up perfectly for travelers willing to take an 8 hour train trip. This would not only open up yet another option for trains to connect the Hampton Roads area to the Northeast, but it also would allow locals to travel up to DC, NYC, or Boston without taking away time during the day from work or exploring the city.
Your first suggestion is happening already, and the night owl runs as well. As for why I didn’t talk about Virginia, well, you might not like this, but I think Virginia service should be severed from the Northeast Regional. A one-seat ride for a few passengers is not worth running a train on the country’s busiest rail corridor onto tracks that could not be more different. Regular, frequent, punctual service restricted to the corridor would be better for Virginians. No matter the delay in VA, their train can pull up next to an NER for an easy transfer.
Thom knows that some of the armchaoir experts are going to get mad. But he made that video anyways. I respect you for that! Also, I agree with many of your takes, because they are reasonable! As a german I am also kinda pissed of by our pricing systems. They are a mess and if you not used to the DB Navigator APP or the website of DB, you will get confused and take your cars anyways. This rant applies to regional and long distance trains. The Deutschlandticket made it much better for the regionals (49 € per month, including all local transit in the whole country) but that will get more expensive as well in the next year... About your Express and stopping service idea, I would like to add another proposal. The Northeast regional should stay an express train like a german IC or ICE and just make limited stops. Like every hour. And there should additional regional commuter trains which are an intermediate solution between stopping services and the Northeast regional fast trains. It is the german model. You have "Regionalbahn"/"S-Bahn" (not including Berlin and Hamburg, those S-Bahn-systems are special!) which slow regional commuter trains which run every 30 to 60 minutes and stop at every station in the region. Then you have "Regionalexpress"-trains which are still regional commuter trains but are generally faster and make less stops. That means, that a traveller from a small village can take the S-Bahn to the nex bigger city, than change to a Regionalexpress to get faster to the next big hub and board his ICE there. But I guess that won't really work on the corridor since all the regional transport authorities must work together... And at last, thank you for mentioning the boarding process on the big hub stations. I never got why that airport like procedere is necesary. In the rest of the world, ppl just wait at the plattform and thats it. What were they thinking?
Only a few European trains in my personal experience, but thanks Thom for giving us a few insights as to what is possible and worth serious consideration by Amtrak.
Great video! As a frequent NER user, and diehard train/Amtrak fan, I have a few notes: One, my biggest grievance with the regional is price. Ticket prices are absurd nowadays. I go to school in MD but live in CT. The Regional is by far the most convenient way for me to get between these two places. However, even booking a month out, tickets are already going for over $100 per way! Oftentimes if my trip is last minute or even remotely unplanned, I’ll end up flying as it’s cheaper for me (I have credit card points). I’m fine with it as I love planes just as much as I love trains and I personally enjoy flying even with all its nuisances, but I *much* prefer to take the train. When I was a kid my family would often drive when traveling up and down the coast as train tickets were too cost prohibitive. The Regional is supposed to be the *economical* train option, but at the prices they demand many in the NE are priced out. I understand part of this isn’t Amtrak’s fault. Demand far exceeds supply on the corridor currently and that’s unlikely to change at least until the Airos enter service. But there are many times nowadays where I see ACELAS going for lower prices than similarly timed Regionals. So I feel like part of this is Amtrak’s fault. Which takes me into my second point: Technology. Amtrak needs to invest more in its IT infrastructure. Not only due to unreasonable and downright strange pricing, but from a consumer standpoint their IT greatly lags their airline counterparts. Their app only supports basic trip features, while United lets you do basically everything under the sun for your reservation in its app. Amtrak has stated that seat reservations aren’t yet available on the Regional because their IT doesn’t support it for some reason. Digital infrastructure is just as important as physical infrastructure, and it’s time Amtrak took investing in it more seriously.
@@Thom-TRAbelieve me you’re not, and I’m honestly dumbfounded when others in the train community I speak to don’t see this as an issue. Trains are supposed to be an economical, accessible method of travel. Yet many times Amtrak, regardless of Regional or Acela, is the most expensive way to travel the northeast. It completely defeats the fundamental point of train travel: accessible quality public transportation
Spain has security checks and does tickets before boarding on high speed trains-so my idea is either make tickets scanned before getting on board for corridor, VA Regionals, and Hartford line at most stations. The main issues with the timetable is base regional plus Acela, Keystone, Long Distance, and then the odd routes that are neither regionals nor long distance that should have a second train (Pennsylvanian, Carolinian, Vermonter). The PA services kind of throw the cadence off unless the MARC Penn Line properly fills in the gap-be nice if MARC had a few DC-Baltimore limited express trains at random times that serve New Carrollton, Odenton, and BWI, basically fulfilling the same role as the Keystone between Harrisburg and Philadelphia (give it a cool nickname like the Corridor Connection that’s roughly timed with one express regional and then have a local timed with the other and have a base rate for travel from EWR (to Newark Penn and NY Penn) and BWI (to Baltimore and DC) with NJT and MARC so you can just get a ticket on the platform and walk on to whatever train you want. I can side with Amtrak though on seasonal fluctuations, but the Regional and Acela should be less inflated than they get. Final days spike for the Acela and long distance routes is justifiable in the same way business class used to work in aviation
Wish they would add Secaucus Junction, as many of us NJ Transit customers connect there, but have to go to Newark Penn, NY Penn, or, for lesser departures, EWR, to connect to Amtrak.
I actually really like your Regional A/Regional B idea. I think their stopping patterns can best be described as (to quote JTA), "Zoned Express". This is a concept that is quite powerful, especially on really long distance routes. Though I have to question the necessity of two express regionals every hour would work. I don't know how the demand is, but I feel like 20 minute headways with one express, one A and one B train every hour leaving on top, 20 minutes past and 40 minutes past the hour. Since the Regional A and B alternate express and local running on different parts of the route, any section of the NEC will have 2 "express" and one local train an hour. This makes sense, right?
I hope I get a chance to ride this train someday. I know I’d love to ride any Amtrak I can with an acs-64 leading. I would make sure I’d had have to anywhere on the northeast corridor. I want to experience all the speeds it would be doing along the route.
13:10 I like our system in Germany, You have S-Bahn, a frequent commuter train for metro areas stopping everywhere and featuring trains with many doors for quick stops. RB (Regionalbahn) also stops everywhere but is usually found outside of metro areas or is a distinction from RE. Usually no faster than 160km/h RE (Regional Express) limited stops, longer routes (up to a few hours) speeds mostly don't exceed 160 but some go 200km/h IC (Intercity) long distance across the whole country with stops in smaller cities but way less than RE, 160 or 200km/h top ICE (InterCityExpress) long distance, up to 300km/h (320 in France) limited stops to mostly just medium and big cities. And finally ICE-S (ICE Sprinter) VERY limited stops only on the fastest routes linking the biggest cities. 300km/h and for example the one between Munich and Berlin takes you halfway across the country with only 1 (or maybe 2?) intermediate stops
I agree it shouldn't matter what time the train is, the price should be the same. WMATA Metrorail used to have rush hour fares, but got rid of them last year
The airline style boarding is one of the worst parts of Amtrak. It's absolutely idiotic and antithetical to running a functional rail system.
My thoughts exactly.
Via Rail is even worse about it
If it can be of any consolation, for "security reasons" they do this idiotic thing, plus x-ray bag scan, on Eurostar and spanish high speed rail as well here in Europe.
It's aboslutely idiotic, and negates the biggest benefit of "show up just in time".
I take high speed trains quite regularly here in italy, and I never ever arrive more than 10 minutes before departure.
Frequency and flexible tickets are also key: it's not stressfull to "cut it close" and get on a train 20 seconds before it leaves if you can just get the next one in 20 minutes...
@@luca7069 Yeah the Spanish one is dumb, but the Eurostar one is required afaik because it's international customs stuff.
@@IndustrialParrot2816 Every time I rode with VIA, I was asked to reserve my seat. So unlike the situation with Amtrak, I was never in line stressed about getting a good seat. Mind you, both times I rode with VIA I rode business class. I haven't ridden economy.
Thank you for pronouncing Newark, DE and Newark, NJ differently ❤
Delawareans say it as if it’s two words 😂😂😂
North Jerseyans pronounce it with one syllable (Nerk).
If you're curious about this, id research the Amtrak Metropolitan/ICE proposal. I don't remember all the deets but its something like trains running every 15 minutes with different service patterns and more local stops. It's apart of the NEC future, which means things like the new Hudson tunnels and capacity upgrades will need to be done first before this happens. But its really good
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look it up!
Also to get that 15 min headway frequency. You're going to need a second NEC right of way.
@@az196823 no you won’t. Most of the line is triple tracked. You just need to add an additional track in some places.
You have to have sufficient bypassing SEPTA, Metro-North, etc @@Thom-TRA
@@az196823Japan's Shinkansen service runs more frequently than that on two-track lines, splitting to four tracks at stations. Of course they don't have commuter trains bumbling into their path.
Thanks for riding, Thom. I’ll take your questions and concerns to the proper people. Since i work for said company, I have to keep bias but definitely understand your statements 🐧🚂
Hey I didn’t know they were your employer!
@@Thom-TRA yep. 5 years. You may or may not have heard me once on the station’s PA systems. I usually do a greyhound-like 5 beeps before i speak.
@@PiplupJamesGood luck. Some of us have been asking these same questions for over 30 years. The folks at 1 Massachusetts Ave. are a tough bunch to change.
I think your very logical suggestions remind me of the DB train designations when I traveled there when I was in college (back in the early 1970s). Hopefully Amtrak will adopt some variation of it.
If we compared the Northeast Regional to European trains, things would be so much better for Amtrak.
Boarding the Northeast Regional is an absurdly bad experience. It's even worse in New York City.
Travelling alone, I try to use Business Class so I get an assigned seat.
When travelling with family in Coach Class, the conductors try to get us seated together if we're nearer to the front of the line (or have small children). If you're at the back half of the line with family you're out of luck.
Back in the 1980s and 1990s, standing and sitting in the aisles was the rule. Amtrak wisely stopped non-reserved trains but stopped short of assigned seating except for Business Class.
Yeah the lines in New York are worse and the staff is so rude
Well Amtrak cannot do assigned seating on Northeast Regional's because they don't know the seating for each car or how many cars will be on a given train. As it could be a little different. Until we get the new trainsets, this is going to be the case.
Pro tip in NYC, you should just board from the concourse, no need to wait in line. The track will come up onscreen and you can board from anywhere in the facility, not just Moynihan.
@@thetrainguy1Assigned seating works just fine in Northeast Regional Business Class and the Acela. No excuse there.
@@quadcorelatte8217Yes, we know that old trick. The conductors don't like it, though.
I'll add a few comments since I used to work for Amtrak on the NEC.
Schedules - The reason there's a difference between weekday and weekend schedules is the aging tunnels just west of New York. On weekends and holidays one tube is taken out of service for badly needed maintenance. West-bounds must leave NYP between 01 and 25. East-bounds then get to run between 30 and 55. This won't change until the new tunnel opens in 10 years ... yes, that long.
Another thing about scheduling on the NEC is all the many services and operators using the corridor. As a dispatcher I got to work with the scheduling group that made the schedules. Getting everything to mesh between Amtrak and the various commuter operators isn't an easy as you might think it is. Being a dispatcher I had a first hand view of the organized chaos that is the NEC.
Extra clock face trains - aside from the track capacity issues Amtrak just doesn't have enough equipment to add all those trains you propose. The new Siemens Airo trainsets due to arrive in 2026 will help. One holidays Amtrak leases equipment from the various commuter operators just to add service. I actually don't see the Amfleet 1 cars going away for another 10 years. Yes, 60 year old equipment running on the NEC (Metroliner cab cars not withstanding).
Boarding at major stations - if you look at old pictures of Washington Union station from the 40's, 50's and 60's you'll see long lines of people lined up at the gates. This isn't a new Amtrak policy. That waiting area is where the shops and ticket office is located today. All that stuff needs to be removed and this area returned to a waiting area. As for allowing passengers to board the trains sooner, I believe passengers are not allowed to board a train until the crew is on board. Washington based crews go on duty usually about 30 minutes prior to departure so this could be moved up but not by much. Another thing about Europe is regular track assignments. Over here track assignments can change from day to day or even hour by hour. You'll never see the yellow departure/white arrival posters you see on say DB that tells people what platform to go to.
None of these challenges are unique to the US. Other countries have multiple operators on limited tracks too. And they usually don’t even own their own tracks like Amtrak does.
And not having enough equipment to properly serve an area with 51 million people is a huge political oversight.
And we’ve always boarded this way is a terrible excuse. It’s not the 1940s, it’s the 2020s.
Can you explain more about your path to be a dispatcher for Amtrak NEC? I'm in the process of being a dispatcher for LIRR so I'm just seeing what are the similarities / differences? And you said you used to work for Amtrak? What happened?
@@Thom-TRA Well .. passenger rail in this country needs to be funded at the same level it is in Europe.
@@thetrainguy1 also, Amtrak needs to reform its operating practices. And ticketing, policy.
Also I understand where this former dispatchers coming from. The section of the corridor between Newark & NYP is a complete cluster fuck. If something goes wrong with the current portal bridge or anyone of the Hudson tube's or a switch in the Penn Station area. Things can get really ugly really fast, new tunnels and train sets will be a big help. Also modernizing the power supply system/ constantion, catenary.
I remember when about half of what were then “Northeast Direct” trains were unreserved, meaning the fares were flat and you could ride any train. Amtrak switched to the “all reserved” model (reserved boarding, not reserved seats) for all NE Regionals in the W Bush era because it allowed them to implement airline style fare gouging to make up for the fact Washington was asking them to continue running money-losing long hauls but also taking away funding. I agree: either make the seats reserved or return to flat fares, at least for some or most trains.
Clock face service patterns would be a massive improvement as well.
The day Congress understands how valuable Amtrak could be, we need to declare it a national holiday.
@@de-fault_de-fault, the entire passenger transportation industry is “money-losing”, at least in North America and Europe (not sure about Asia; perhaps they somehow succeed in running their trains profitably; I don’t know). But considering the fact that highways and aviation are heavily subsidized, and that the Northeast Corridor requires more capital investments that any other rail line in the country, it’s not truly “profitable” either, even if it does have operating surplus. If anything, profitability shouldn’t be the objective to begin with.
@@Thom-TRA, for that to happen in its fullest, the Koch family along with the entire car lobby has to go broke. Before that happens, however, at very least, something needs to be done to affect the car culture. Your channel is a significant component of this process. The point is to make the population aware of the available passenger rail and transit resources (before it becomes more realistic to ask the government to invest in what’s not yet available).
@@abenm613 It's one of the living Kochs who is on the side of evil. One of his brothers is one of those rich UES residents who uses the Subway.
@@Scrabbleship820, living in New York and using the subway may be a reason to be on the side of good for someone who’s not under influence of the car propaganda. Unfortunately, too many New Yorkers are, and if they don’t outright support divestment from transit, they do blame the transit woes not on underinvestment but on MTA’s “corruption” and “mismanagement”, and many of the city residents who don’t own a car (or, at very least, don’t drive to Manhattan daily) are nonetheless conditioned to oppose congestion pricing. Now if regular, supposedly unbiased New Yorkers can be conditioned like that, how much more so are the influential people whose wealth comes directly from the public’s car usage, such as the Koch family! When Trump was running for the first time in 2016, I was hoping that the fact that he owns so much of Manhattan’s real estate (and is not being in the oil or auto industry) would make him as independent from the establishment as he had advertised himself. My hopes were crushed on his inauguration day when the news had leaked that his “conservative” budget-writers were preparing a budget proposal that had essentially no place for Amtrak and very limited place for transit (which even his fellow Republicans in the Senate had rejected by bringing the funding back to normal). I’m not skeptical; I still believe rail and transit renaissance is possible in the US and even already happening, albeit to limited scale. But I’m realistic enough to acknowledge that, for such a renaissance to reach the proportions sufficient to rival Europe and Asia, some serious changes need to take place within the relevant industries. Either the big oil and/or the automakers would have to go broke, or the international train manufacturers would have to dedicate more resources to grow their business in the US and lobby our government accordingly.
The one change I'd make is to consider airports as major stations and have all trains stop there. They're huge hubs, both for employment and travel, so I think EWR and BWI deserve the highest level of service, especially if Trenton and Back Bay get the faster trains as well
I had the A and B stop at the airports, just because I don’t want the expressed to be slowed down too much. After all, the advantage of trains is going downtown to downtown. Half hourly service at the airports, supplemented by commuter train service, is a better option in my opinion.
The Amtrak boarding process is the most infuriating aspect of train travel in the US. The low speeds, low frequencies, and frequent delays might be worse in an objective sense, but there are at least reasons for those outside of Amtrak's direct control. The boarding process is entirely on them and has no reason to be like that. Boarding a long-distance train in Chicago is a special kind of hell and honestly far worse an experience than I've ever had boarding a plane, and boarding the Northeast Regional in Philadelphia is only marginally less bad because since it's not a terminus, the crowds aren't quite as bad- though, then again, the only Amtrak train I've ever boarded there was a midday weekend train, so that might just be sampling bias. Honestly, and I can't believe I'm saying this, the rest of the American passenger rail system would do well to follow the example of Los Angeles. The Pacific Surfliner is the most directly comparable service to the Northeast Regional on Amtrak's entire network, and when you board that at LA Union Station, you can just walk out to the platform and get on, both as soon as they open the doors and at the last second before they close them. There's no secrecy about platform assignments, there's no holding pen, there's no waiting in line- you can literally show up at the station by light rail five minutes before your train's scheduled departure with your Amtrak app not working, run to the kiosk and buy a paper ticket, run back to the Surfliner platform, and board without issue, which I can say with confidence because I've personally done it. Good luck pulling off a SEPTA-Northeast Regional transfer like that at 30th Street.
Los Angeles is doing a lot of things right here. Later this month, Metrolink is increasing it's weekday service by 22% and going to a clock based schedule, so if you want to transfer from one Metrolink to another it's easy since almost all Metrolink trains arrive just before the half hour and leave just after it (the exact time varies by route but more than enough to go from one track to another).
Connecting with the Pacific Surfliner will only be easy with the San Bernardino line since that is the only line running half hourly with trains arriving and leaving after the hour like the Surfliner does. Note that off peak San Bernardino hour based line trains only go to Covina, but having half hourly service on anything on Metrolink is quite an upgrade.
You’re right, Chicago is the worst. People act CRAZY in those lines. It doesn’t help they keep changing the boarding process every few months…
@@Geotpf The US really needs to look at CA on how to do rail. Not the east coast
Yea boarding in Chicago Union Station (and Champaign to a smaller extent) can be quite frustrating. Similar to Thom, if I'm taking a very long distance train, I'm more understanding and can put up with it but to just get on the Hiawatha or Illini/Saluki it feels like a circus, especially when you have Metra trains immediately adjacent that during rush hour are boarding not too dissimilar numbers of people. I'm going to cut them less slack once the renovations are complete.
@@duncananderson6333 Honestly, even for long-distance trains, it's unnecessary. Those have assigned seats. Just list the seat number and car on the ticket when you buy it, and passengers can just wait in the main hall and find their seats on their own without bothering with the line and conductors hand-writing seat numbers and verbally telling you the car.
I agree with all of your comments. In the UK, I like how you can buy an “Advanced” ticket limited to a fixed time, “Off Peak” (any train during less busy times) or “Anytime” ticket.
For longer journeys, a seat reservation is really important to me. I wish the NER allowed seat reservations. Bringing my family up to New York from Baltimore later this month and we hope all 6 of us can sit near each other.
I would also love to see some connectivity between regional rails and Amtrak, even though they are different operators. Let me book a ticket from Odenton to JFK airport, the app would calculate a route and issue a ticket for the three train systems. Right now I have to use three different apps, and if one train is delayed, I’m kind of hosed!
Also, for some reason the UK will often board trains with like 5 minute notice announcing a gate, followed by mobs of people. But with seat assignments it doesn’t really matter!
@@MattBasch and then (last time I looked) you have APOD - Advance Purchase On the Day - on CrossCountry, whereby someone who paid full open fare gets turfed out of their seat with no notice by a discount ticket holder \m/
I like the idea of having different fare brackets! As long as they’re predictable.
I actually just came back from England and rode on GWR from Paddington to Bath (and Windsor) doing touristy things and it was pretty nice for the most part. I bought an advance “off-peak” ticket that could be used for any train between the stations I chose at any “off-peak” time.
Only bad experience was the outgoing train to Bath I planned to take was cancelled so everybody ended up piled into the next available train an hour later and they cancelled all reserved seating because all the seats were taken and everyone else had to stand and it was pretty cramped. I did file for a “Delay Repay” claim and should be getting some money back for the cancelled train at least.
Like you said, they only announce the platform number with a couple minutes notice like Amtrak does, so there was a bit of a mad rush across the station when the number appeared on the board. The train to Windsor via Slough was on Platform 14 which also required a run around the entire station as it was apparently separate from the rest.
The return train was much smoother though, and the equipment was definitely more modern than Amtrak, although the seats were a tad less comfy.
Was still very interesting to see the Tube, Elizabeth Line, and GWR all running at Paddington during rush hour!
Speaking of Japan's system of ticketing, usually you have a fare ticket, that calculate the fair based on the distance, this is the same no matter you take shinkansen or local trains all the way down from Tokyo to Osaka.
And then, for super express trains (i.e. Shinkansen), you need an express ticket that serves as an add-on fare, if you want to take a faster train.
On top of that, you want a seat reserved? You need a seat reservation ticket to have a guaranteed seat.
I guess this is something that Amtrak can learn from.
Yeah the Japanese system can be a little confusing but at least it works haha
Fare gates at Amtrak's busiest stations aren't a bad idea.
@@Thom-TRANowadays most people use electronic payment cards anyway. Even on some Shinkansen lines it's now possible to use a card when you register
And commuters can put the commuter ticket on the card too
@@lars7935 Those are stored value card (i.e. Suica/Pasmo...) but not credit cards
As a former Newark, DE resident, +1 for proper pronunciation.
Trial and error haha
It seems that you are going in the direction of turning the Northeast Regional Service into something akin to the “Special Rapid Service” on the Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe JR Line. Local trains that call at most stations on the line, and expresses that skip almost everything apart from big cities. I like where this is going very much! Thanks for the video.
Yeah, I really like the clarity and simplicity of Japanese express service. I think it could make the trains in the US more attractive.
I am totally with you on the boarding. I don't understand why they don't let you just wait on the platform like literally every other country?!
Probably something to do with legal liability if people act stupid. I honestly don’t know.
At least at DC Union Station, there isn't room to wait on the platform. I think in general, it is just how big stations are traditionally designed in this country. That being said, the waiting areas in Union Station are pretty poor, tho I never have seen the lines he has. I'm guessing I haven't traveled at the busiest times.
As annoying as it is at Penn Station in New York, I kind of get why they do it there: the platform is narrow, there's a huge interchange of passengers, crew, and supplies, but it doesn't make much sense at most other main stations like South Station or Washington Union Station.
More recently in Philadelphia I've noticed that they do let us wait on the platform, but after lining up in the concourse first...so I really don't understand the rationale at that point, lol.
So people line up like before, but then they let us down to the platform a good 5-10 minutes for the train arrives.
At least at DC Union Station, there’s so many commuter and Amtrak trains swapping into/ out of the narrow platforms that it could easily result in crowds forming and people falling on tracks or standing on the wrong platform for any number of reasons.
A lot of the traditional spots for lines are now taken up by small retail, which is one of the ways that Amtrak brings in revenue to keep up with maintenance costs on the old building. I don’t like it, but if it keeps the train station better maintained, I’m okay with it.
I like the name "gate lice" for those people who line up at the gate before boarding the airplane. I do hate how Amtrak makes you wait until the last minute to board the train.
Gate lice, that’s a good one. Makes my head all itchy just thinking about it.
With air travel, I'd say the reason gate lice happens is because everyone wants to be certain that they'll get overhead bin space for their carry-ons and not be forced to gate-check them.
Thanks for this video and for all the interesting comments. I’m not an expert, but live in MD and use the Northeast Regional to get to Philly, my former home. These recommendations make sense to me, and the comments really help me understand the situation and options better.
I really like your ideas for the Northeast Regional. I wonder how much work something like this would require to have the capacity needed for all those trains. When adding in the Commuter Trains it almost seems like you could cut some of the Regional A and Regional B by adding Commuter Capacity for the more 'local' runs... assuming the "Regional Express" ran frequently enough that one could transfer to a faster train in a larger city to finish your journey.
(As as example... going from Aberdeen, MD to NYC if MARC or Regional A went to Wilmington/Philly then you could get a faster train the rest of way North.)
Yes, that’s how I kind of designed it. The slower trains could help transfer to a faster one.
Yes, the commuter rail is the priority, at least on the New Haven Line, which is at or near capacity during peak. Far more people ride the commuter rail than ride Amtrak.
10:00 Sure. If there was the supply available to meet the demand. Commuter trains are rarely at capacity. Amtrak is. Until more trains are rolling, this system allows for Amtrak to make some money and for people who don't have a lot of money to still take the train by waiting longer. Amtrak serves both people in poverty and people in c-suites.
6:50 Reminds me of london euston when they announce the platform minutes before departure and everyone fights for a seat
Are you listening, Amtrak? All of these issues are valid and the solutions are awesome!!! Do better, Amtrak!!! And thanks for this awesome and thorough video!!!
Agree with a lot of this. Some of the other nuance as a frequent NER user is that frequency is further inconvenience by the Acela's. I think distinguishing between them when you don't offer frequent enough base service is wrong... There should indeed be a service every 15-30 min for regional trains and only then can you have a fancier train. Until then, treat all trains as having the same fare structure. Also, the regional trains have every seat labelled and it's obvious the tech exists for seat reservations. I think the only reason it isn't offer on regional trains is to create a distinction w Acela services. Then if you're travelling w a companion it is so chaotic to try and find 2 seats together, meanwhile all of these solo travellers have backpacks next to them hoping you won't be assertive enough to have them make space for you. Also the trains are always so busy! It's great to see and I wish it translated to improving the frequency etc. Maybe when the new trains go into service to replace the old Budd cars, we just keep the old ones and increase frequency... Also if we ran through trains for commuter rail service in NYC (combo LIRR/NJ transit) we could free up enough tunnel space to actually increase Amtrak frequency.
Fun fact: In Bizarro-World fashion, within Boston's corporate bounds, the Northeast Corridor is called the Southwest Corridor. In the late 1970s and early 80s, it was rebuilt and put into a trench along with the relocated Orange Line subway. Much of the right of way between Back Bay Station and Forest Hills Station in Jamaica Plain (originally intended to be I-95, aka the Southwest Expressway before that project was canceled in the early 70s) was decked and a linear park was built on that deck and on either side where it isn't decked. It's called the Southwest Corridor Park and is owned and operated as a state park by the Department of Conservation and Recreation, Massachusetts's state park agency. I used to live a block away from an undecked section and sometimes would sit on an embankment overlooking the trench and would watch the trains go by at full speed, while reading or listening to music, etc.
That’s hilarious. Makes sense from Boston’s perspective I guess.
I can agree the boarding processes can be pretty painful at times. Occasionally I'll travel from Chicago to Ann Arbor via the Wolverine and the return trip is way less stressful due to everyone lining up on the platform and not in a long twisted airline-style gate at Union Station. Ann Arbor also has level boarding and retractable platforms that extend to the train doors which is very nice and also great for people with mobility issues. Hoping more Amtrak stations can get amenities like that, and have the boarding processes at busy stations be more streamlined.
Also when I rode the Capitol Limited last month, we actually _did_ have assigned seats which I thought was interesting. I don't know if that's a new thing, something the Capitol Limited has been doing for a while, or something unique to this specific trip I was on but it does show that Amtrak can and has had assigned seats for coach class.
Chicago boarding is the absolute WORST
I'm glad you mentioned the "Flat fares, flexible ticket"...actually MARC train uses that for their trains (through the CharmPass app) it has definitely come in handy specifically when I fly into BWI and am looking for a train to get back to DC.
I think for your issue at BWI the solution should just be MARC running holiday service
the whole issue with "Commuter Rail" is that it's just said, it's good for commuters but sucks for anyone else. It's about time the U.S. introduces local/regional service at a fixed fee that runs 7 days a week all day long (once an hour minimum).
So we’re just going to address a symptom of the problem instead of the actual problem? That Amtrak pretends to be an airline instead of a reliable mode of transportation…
@@Thom-TRA I am not saying your ideas are bad, I just think people shouldn't have to rely on an intercity service for a regional trip.
@@dodleboper ah, thank you for clarifying. Still, given that Baltimore and DC are separate cities 40 miles apart, I totally think it’s fair to rely on the regional train.
@@Thom-TRA MARC's Northeast Corridor service is kinda like Caltrain's in how it's run, since most service runs between the two big cities (Washington and Baltimore vs. San Francisco and San Jose), and there's additional limited service to a point beyond the second major city (trains that continue onward to Perryville).
I really think your three-tiered approach to Northeast Regional scheduling would be a true winner.
Thanks!
Definitely agree with you here. The northeast regional and northeast corridor has the potential to be so much better than it currently is but Amtrak and the states are too lazy to fix it, and that’s the problem for most trains across the U.S. as well.
I really love the Northeast Regional, I never knew this was happening.
Very thoughtful suggestions. THanks for another great video.
Glad you like them!
Great video. You're absolutely correct in my opinion
Thank you!
We will all remember you, Reggie! Wait-did he die? Or did he just get a new owner? Anyways I 100% agree with you on this. They should also set up overhead wires for the MBTA commuter rail, they would just need a few more miles of it from Providence to Wickford Jct.
He’s a foster. So we took care of him until his forever home was lined up for him.
I take the Northeast Regional and Acela from Boston often and still show up to Back Bay station 5 minutes before departure and have always been fine. Maybe it’s just a Boston thing but we don’t seem to have that boarding issue here. At South station you can see where the train is and know which track to go to and at Back Bay its always on track 1. If I want a better seat for a longer journey south of Providence that isn’t served by the Acela where I can choose my seat I will venture up to South station to get the good window seat in the quiet car. I agree the newer dynamic pricing structure that Amtrak uses is terrible and we absolutely need half hourly service all day at the minimum.
Yeah I have noticed Boston does this better. It feels more integrated with the local system.
Even at South Station it's perfectly fine to walk into the station 5 minutes before departure. I prefer waiting there to waiting at Back Bay, so I'll often go to South Station even if I have an Acela ticket.
Excellent suggestions. I'd love to see all of the changes you suggest. It would also be nice to go to a single transit card similar to what the Netherlands has that can be used on regional trains and also on local transit. This would be a huge improvement over paper tickets on Amtrak and different transit cards in every city you could get off in.
Utter madness is the fact that PATH, NJT, and MTA (will) all use different transit cards in the same region. Hooray for the “United” states…
As a student currently in Newark DE, your point is absolutely correct. The stops are very infrequent throughout the day and the station remains empty for most of the day. Not to mention you might as well forget about getting good seats since they let you in quite far in the back and you have the crowd from either Baltimore or everyone from the north.
Who knew this video would be watched by so many Newark folks haha
A new Trains Are Awesome video on a Saturday morning, and about the Northeast Regional? Christmas came early! Great work as always, Thom!
Idk what the temps are where you live but here in 80° DC Christmas feels very far away 😂
@@Thom-TRA I'm in the burbs on the Silver Line, and agreed- it's been so humid! I moved here from Colorado and I'm sick of it! 😤
@@Thom-TRA I'm also a tunnel engineer and WMATA, the PANYNJ (PATH), TTC (Toronto) and BART are some of my clients. If you're looking for some insight on any of these transit systems, I'm happy to help if I can.
@@laneboyd6410 I lived in Tokyo so
I’m kinda used to it haha. But I will definitely reach out if I have questions!
Queued Boarding was created after the 11 September 2001 Attacks.
I remember Previously just walking down the Stairs to the Platforms at Penn Station (Philadelphia, 30th St., Wm. Gray III), sometimes just to watch what was coming through.
Not at Washington Union Station. It’s always been like that. As for New York’s Pennsylvania Rail Road Station, the Amtrak-used platforms are narrow and it can be a safety issue to have passengers standing down on what is treated like a terminus station, given how even through trains are paused there for quite some time.
If you mean NY Penn Station, I never bother waiting on the line there. You can go one level down, or even to the NJT area, and walk onto the platform the second the train is announced.
@@erik_griswold Interesting, I wonder why at WAS they made everyone Queue. I understand NYP with the narrow Platforms.
@@Dogod2 Penn Station Philadelphia, 30th St. One of three
Spot on! Unfortunately LNER is heading in the opposite direction. Bonus Uetliberg content always welcome \m/
That is unfortunate!
1:10 Roanoke spotted, woohoo! We're out in Blacksburg, dreaming that Amtrak can make it to Christiansburg even sooner than their scheduled opening in 2028.
6:20 I haven't had any issues with taking the NER or Downeaster from Boston after getting to the station
Yeah Boston is different
Thom. Thanks for doing this video these are all great points that I would love to see these ideas applied to my home line the Empire Service at least for the NYP-ALB trains as I find everything you mentioned as nuisances on the Northeast Regional to apply to the Empire Service as well even as it attracts record ridership. It's so exciting to see Caltrain adopt consistent clockface schedules and stopping patterns!!
I really like your proposal for the three separate Northeast Regional services. The more i think about it the more sense it makes to me.
Thanks!
@@Thom-TRA you’re most welcome.
8:11 Thank You! This needs to be fixed on not just the regional but all of the Amtrak routes! I just rode the Carolinian from Philly to Charlotte and it was like mass chaos every time the train pulled into another stop. All you saw was people going up and down the aisles, trying to find seats. They even put us in assigned cars by state and there still wasn’t enough seats. It should just be a simple as pulling up to a station and you’re able to say I’m in car 5 seat 7A go to that seat and that’s it.
The NEC Amfleet trains (so not Metroliners) ran unreserved until the mid-1990s. It meant that people stood and blocked the aisles. I think the NTSB made Amtrak stop that after a derailment.
My ex GF and her daughter were on a regional and it was so crowded they could not get to the doors in time before the train left the station. The conductor was really sorry and gave her a pass to ride the next train back from the next station to her station. BTW, she was traveling with luggage and flying out of Newark.
Thank you, Thom! I have stood in those damn lines at Union Station more than once and said loudly, "IF I WANTED TO FLY, I'D FLY."
it is very important to not let competition of trains vs flights affect service quality for local users. very few people are traveling from Boston to NY to DC that often, but commuters living on intermediary stops are your daily users - the customer base. Most trains should stop at most stops.
This is a great concept. Essentially skip-stop service with reliability. If only!
If only if only
I agree that the Northeast Regional needs help to continue to grow and be on time with the best equipment possible and newer equipment just like with the Lake Shore Limited 48/448 and 49/449. The rails needs replacement and then improve the train stations like they did with the Worcester, MA station well over due!!!! Keep up your great videos!!! dwb
I have to say, in terms of ticketing I’m not entirely opposed to dynamic pricing with a fixed train for these kinds of long journeys. The Dutch „Intercity“ trains are more akin to regional express trains here in Germany, both in comfort and speed. I feel the northeast regional should be more of a real long distance service and more comfortable trains come with less capacity. Managing the limited capacity is very important, because standing on an intercity train sucks.
Thom used the German ICE as his example at some point in the video and it has exactly the Amtrak system as the standard ticket (non-reserved seat, fixed train). There is also the option to book a flexible ticket, but it comes at a often significant upcharge. But, if you book a flexible ticket in advance because you for example land at an airport it’s usually cheaper then buying the ticket same day. I feel like this is a decent compromise between managing crowds and providing flexibility for those who need it. When traveling for personal matters choosing a train is usually no problem and I enjoy cheaper prices because of it. When traveling for business or back from a flight I’ll pay for the flexibility because that’s when I actually need it.
Small correction - I didn't cover EVERY NE Regional Variant in my song, it was too hard to find a rhyme for "Knickerbocker" :P
I would add: Add at least 1-2 cars per train with commuter rail style seating. Flixbus and the like regularly undercut Amtrak on the corridor, especially DC-PHL-NYC, and having "cheap seats" would get more people on the train.
No rhyme for knickerbocker? Shocker!
@@Thom-TRA wait I saw what you did there 🤣
I agree! Why do some run on a slightly different schedule on Fridays and a whole lot later on Saturday and Sundays?? Not even serving the same stations in some cases?? I realize it may have to do with crew utilization, but there has to be a better way!!
It’s old-fashioned railroading but implemented on what’s supposed to be a modern line
An excellent review of the service pointing out potential solutions! I hope Amtrak is listening. It would also be great if the equipment was like I've seen in the UK where each seat has a "reserved" light that shows which seats are reserved and from which point to which other point so that you can easily see where the unreserved seats are on the train.
1) Yes, the pricing is insane.
2) If you're solo, no need to line up and be first in line at the big stations, but if you're travelling as a family, esp with little kids, it's horible. There are some 4 seaters, but they're always full of people by themselves. Come on, save that for families! Here's where seat reservations are huge. Amtrak could have better "family values" lol.
3) The trains are getting really rickety and loud. Gotta crank up your headphones.
4) Case in point re all your arguments, when we go from NYC (where we live) to Philly, we take NJT to SEPTA:
a) It's SO MUCH cheaper.
b) Doesn't take much longer.
c) Way more flexible re timing.
d) It runs at a reasonable predictable schedule.
e) We get to pee/stretch/snack in Trenton.
f) It's chiller and emptier and we can always sit together, and our kid can run around the empty train and no one cares.
g) SEPTA stops at a bunch of Philly destinations, not just 30th St, so you get closer to where you want to go.
h) The trains are nicer, esp those NJT double deckers.
Anyways it's sad that we avoid the NE Regional so hard, but the above speaks for itself. It really sucks and could be sooo much better. Keep up the good work.
The 4 seaters are also always so cramped!!! There’s not enough legroom
Excellent analysis. Hope Amtrak sees this video. Much to learn.
Great video Thom! One small thing I’d love to see is at least one high-level platform at Washington Union Station for the through tracks that continue south. Any NEC train from New York or Boston that continues into Virginia stops at a low level platform. Since a vast majority of the people on the train are getting off in DC, it takes 5-10 minutes for everyone to get to the platform, since all doors do not open. I know that high level platforms are not compatible with Superliners or VRE trains, but one platform for the many NEC trains would help.
I remember riding from New York to Philly in the late 80’s. As soon as the track was announced there was a mad crush to get down to the platform..if you weren’t quick enough, you got to stand for the 90-minute ride. It is still like this for the NJ transit trains out of Penn Station, but I have never had a problem getting a seat.
The other day I was on a regional that got in at 1am and they put us on the low levels last minute for no reason. The conductors were so mad!
I actually love the dynamic pricing of the NER because of how affordable it makes it when booking far in advance, combine it with a discount like share fares and I've done day trips from NYC to DC for $20 round trip per person or NYC to Philly for $10 RT. Making this a flat fare of, say $50, would make it prohibitively expensive, if you need to travel day of you can always just take a bus.
It’s not that affordable anymore, even in advance. I haven’t seen a $20 fare in months.
And affordable last-minute travel in a dense corridor like this should not be a luxury reserved for the rich.
@@Thom-TRA I usually book the trains between 7PM and 7AM about 2 months out and can find plenty of $20-25 trains. The amount of money you can save from the dynamic pricing is much more than the one or two times you need to pay a lot. If train prices were 2x more expensive at a flat rate, that would mean each trip you would need to pay about $50 more round trip than at current prices, which would mean even just three regular trips would set you back $150, or about the price of ONE last minute ticket.
@@pbatransit9487 I’m glad it works like that for you, but that’s not everyone’s experience. I for one don’t have the luxury of always knowing 2 months in advance when I need to be somewhere.
@@Thom-TRA just checked amtrak and there are $20 fares as close as TWO WEEKS out (oct 29) in both directions between NYC and DC. In addition, fares are cheaper than $50 each way as close as six days out, meaning that as long as you're booking over a week in advance, dynamic pricing will typically save you money.
@@pbatransit9487 you realize the $50 thing was just an example right?
A video about the infrastructure needed would be great. Of course, this calls for a lot more train sets. You also eluded to dedicated platforms at the major stops and perhaps five or six tracks down the corridor are necessary.
The big question is if more people will travel if it's made easier.
Hey there - great effort and thoughts and I'd like to shed some light on some of your points, which might explain why things are they way they are (I don't work for Amtrak but know people there and I myself study these issues in detail), I may not be correct on all the details, but FWIW:
- I don't think you can compare the NER to the Randstad trains (I lived there too, for 11 years) because the Randstad is essentially one metropolis as far as the way people move between cities inside it. It's more like looking at Greater New York City than the US Northeast. NER/Acela are truly intercity trains, comparable to Amsterdam-Maastricht or even Frankfurt or Rotterdam-Paris. So, I think the fact that there are about two trains per hour is pretty good, and those shorter distances are served by each metro area's train systems (MARC, SEPTA, NJT, LIRR, M-N, etc). I would like to see some more of those cross state borders if demand supports it, the thing holding that back is the extreme politicization of state politics, imagine trying to get NJ and NY to agree to run their suburban services (all day long) through Manhattan to the other state. The state governments are quite literally hostile to each other, with the exception of VA/MD/DC and PA/DE.
- If Amtrak is mainly an intercity service, AND remember Amtrak, in its charter, is required to try to make as much of a profit as possible, then it's reasonable that the schedules are not perfectly regular, that there are prices that vastly differ based on (limited) supply and demand, and that you have to get a ticket for a particular train, which may thus reasonably be much more expensive when much more in demand.
- We would all love more frequent service, but I have heard that the NEC is more or less at capacity, with all the Amtrak and suburban services. If that is true, then we can blame the lack of investment and expansion - after all Europe and China invest trillions, the US only invests billions
- There are reasons for the irregular stopping patterns, including varying demand over the course of the day, many stops are served by the suburban services during peak hours (esp. Metropark, EWR/airport..., BWI), and most importantly there is an inner and outer set of tracks between PHL and NYC, which means that necessary fast services can't get stuck on the crowded outer tracks with the commuter services.
Your ideas are great, but would require both capacity expansion AND a change of attitude in this country that the intercity train service is more of a service to move the maximum number of people possible at a "reasonable" (socially friendly) price, instead of being *required* to max their profits. I think both of those are highly unlikely, given the way America "thinks"/acts as a country, this automatic assumption that long-distance transportation should be for profit (while somehow being perfectly content that urban transit can be mostly subsidized)
A lot of your points don’t make sense.
-The Randstad is absolutely comparable to the Northeast. I’m from Leiden. We see ourselves as our own city, we’re not related to Amsterdam or Utrecht or anyone. A trip to another city is an intercity trip and that’s how we treat it. And the total travel time between Amsterdam and Rotterdam isn’t that much different than between New York and Philly.
The New York region is a bunch of cities anchored around a core. The Randstad is NOT like that.
I’m surprised that 11 years in the Netherlands left you with such a flawed understanding of how our country works.
-Intercity trains make an irregular timetable a necessity? There’s absolutely no logical correlation between those two. Would you not call the German intercities long-distance trains? Those run on regular schedules.
-small stops are demand based. I acknowledged as much. But read these comments. They’re full of people who wish their “small” cities would see service outside of the edges of the day. And I laugh because you talk about them as if they’re tiny villages, and not medium-sized cities that would have their own light rail systems in any other country.
-yes, many of these ideas would require big infrastructure investments. Something I acknowledged but also don’t think is an outrageous ask for the most populated region in the world’s wealthiest country. But you’re missing the point of the video. I’m not talking about what’s going to happen, but what it should look like.
The point is, I find it hard to imagine anyone would look at the current messy situation, then see my proposals, and think the current way is better.
What happened to the America that built things? Your argument uses the existence of NJT or SEPTA trains as a reason why these ideas could never happen, as if they’re laws of nature, set in stone.
Yeah I really like that A and b and that other stopping pattern. You know it's like they need to do that because then more people would ride it. And you know they might get more people at Aberdeen Maryland and Newark delaware. And you know it just makes sense to have consistency. Matter of fact I have trains running 24 hours a day or at least close to it. I'd probably have like three or four night trains overnight that would put you into the both terminals like New York Boston Washington real early in the morning and you know it would be really a good thing. Thank you for the video.
Another Banger Thom! My favorite idea is the shcedules, it would make it so convenient and easy to learn. Thanks for the video!
Thank you!
My closest comparison to the Northeast Corridor is the West Coast Main Line in the UK. Both have commuter/intercity/regional services and mix with freight. Unfortunately, both lines are at or close to capacity. The HS2 (High Speed 2) project is there to reduce traffic on the WCML by moving its intercity services on the fast line.
I was pleasantly surprised by Amtrak California's Capitol Corridor: tickets are fixed-price and valid on any train. I arrived in Richmond 30 min before my train, and service was every 30 min at that time so I was able to just walk straight onto the train with literally no wait. It was a perfectly timed transfer that I wouldn't have been able to use if tickets had been for a specific train. As far as I can tell, all Capitol Corridor trains stop at all Amtrak stations, while long distance trains make limited stops.
The only thing I would add would be a local service pattern below the Northeast Regionals. Something similar to the Clockers. Having 7-10 round trips make all the Amtrak stops between DC and South Station would keep the people that might get screwed by the stopping patterns happy. Making them the unreserved coach trains so you can take any one of them throughout the day. I would also add some commuter style trains to have more intense services between DC and Philadelphia, Philadelphia and Stamford, and New York to Boston with unreserved coach trains running those stretches.
I do like the idea of a flat fare. Living in the West Coast where the state trains run on a flat fare (in coach at least) is nice. I would say doing some same day price fluctuations might be a good idea just to spread the demand for last minute riders that might have some capacity to choose which train they could take. Like having a flat fare, then 48 hours before, trains below a certain capacity have the fares drop 20% and the same for trains with low capacity. There does need to be some mechanism to make demand spread out.
Realistically, you could probably transfer to another Amtrak train or a commuter rail to reach the destination
Hi Thom...
@ 4:39 your B roll of Ditmars Blvd. Station on the N Line from the Amtrak on the Northeast corridor viaduct in Astoria Queens...
Fun Fact: The Astoria El and the viaduct were both built in 1917 and the Ditmars Blvd platform has a canopy located underneath the viaduct, where it neither rains nor the sun shines...
Think about that...🤔
It’s still my goal to go there and film trains!
Great ideas. And I believe the new Siemens trains should supplement the existing Amfleets to allow for more service as you said. Instead of ordering more new trains, upgrades should be made to the infrastructure to handle increased service. And I also have a soft spot for the Amfleets, so long may they reign. So comfortable. They make me wonder why anyone would want to fly for such a distance. The seats on newer trains will likely be narrower and less comfortable, like in newer European trains.
I think more corridors should better emulate the Northeast Regional, while taking these improvements into account. Most of the long distance routes, i think, would benefit from regional trains serving local stations along the route so the long distance trains can stop less. As an example, for the California Zephyr, I would add trains running Chicago-Omaha, Omaha-Denver, Denver-Salt Lake City, and Salt Lake City-Sacramento.
The Amtrak Michigan line definitely deserves more service too. You could run that every 2 hours and easily fill the trains.
Great video Thom. I will be riding Amtrak for the first time on the 13th between Detroit and Chicago. I was shocked when I booked my tickets months ago that Amtrak doesn't allow you to reserve a chosen seat like VIA Rail does. I wouldn't mind if there was even an extra little fee to do so.
Another thing that both VIA and Amtrak doesn't do is provide a route if it involves multiple trains. Instead, the route finder for both will just say, no route found or no trains found. Airlines can tell you about routes which require switching planes so it is puzzling Amtrak and VIA system does not do it.
If your trip requires an overnight stay somewhere, Amtrak won‘t suggest a route for you.
There IS an extra fee to get a reserved seat... in business class.
I love this idea! I’m in this area, maybe 15-20 minutes drive from Newark, DE station, and there are so few trains that stop there, I not sure if there’s one southbound to DC at all. I’ve traveled before Ubering to Wilmington, when I came back I didn’t even know the train I picked stopped at Newark until they announced it. So I got off there and got a cheaper Uber ride home. Thank god I didn’t drive and had to go all the way to Wilmington to get my car. Haha crazy. For how busy the corridor is, I wish they’d adopt your suggestion for more frequent trains.
Yeah some of the small stations get a really bad deal
Did you forget the electrified line to Harrisburg?
No, that’s called the Keystone Service. It’s a different train.
So, a note on fares. While the commuter railroads do charge flat fares, they often have multiple flat fares. For example, SEPTA charges more for “peak” trips (i.e. going towards Center City between 7-9am and going away from Center City between 5-7pm). That said, the point about knowing what your fare will be is still completely valid because even peak fares are posted well in advance.
Yeah, I wouldn’t even mind if it was something like that
I recently came to North America, and had to take 7 flights in total. Without fail, the 5 U.S.-originated flights had delays of 30-45 minutes. The one from the UK to NY, and the one from Montreal to Vancouver, were fine...
Great suggestions! I can see how they would improve this service.
Thanks!
Hi Tom, Love your videos! Probably the easiest issue to fix is boarding/reserved seating. Brightline in FL has found a way to have 100% reserved seating on ALL its trains. It's all done using software. Why couldn't Amtrak do the same on the NEC? It would improve the boarding process. Even Southwest Airlines will be moving to reserved seating. As for Dynamic pricing, I get your point, but the purpose is to get people with flexible travel plans to take trains that aren't almost filled up. This leaves open seats for people who really need to be somewhere at a certain time. As far as scheduling goes, nothing is going to happen until the Gateway tunnel project is completed in 10-11 years. East of Newark you compress 4 NEC tracks into 2, then add the NJ Transit's 3 track M&E to the 2 track NEC go over the portal drawbridge (that has to open for boat traffic). I really feel for the dispatchers even when there are no problems or incidents. Until that gets fixed they'll be no schedule changes. Short term the Portal bridge is being replaced to reduce delays but will not allow any more trains.
Thom, Amtrak should hire you! Very good suggestions! 🤓
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this excellent video ! I agree with all that you say about the North East Regional service, and use it whenever I travel from NYC to Baltimore. As a Senior I travel,Business Class, which is very good value, at whatever time I chose to travel ! Your suggestions about three service types is excellent, and very European ! I have a feeling Amtrak would not have sufficient rolling stock from its present allocation of Amfleet coaches, and there is the problem as you mentioned, that several services continued beyond DC, and at the moment require a change of locomotive. The new stock on order from Siemens for the North East corridor is some years away, and in the meantime it is hard to see how Amtrak can increase the frequency of the present service. I hope you receive a detailed response from Amtrak, as I am sure they will read your review with great interest ! Many thanks.
I believe (at least in PA) the keystone route is fixed prices
Yes. Between Philly and Harrisburg, all Amtrak trains are unreserved and have fixed prices. This even includes the Pennsylvanian as long as you only travel between Philly and Harrisburg. Any travel on the NEC to New York or west of Harrisburg is reserved. There are some other unreserved fixed rate Amtrak routes too, like the Hiawatha, and I believe the LA-San Diego section of the Pacific Surfliner used to be unreserved if it isn't still unreserved now.
1:34 those platforms ... got to fix that and have tall platforms for easy access onto the train cars
The reason Amtrak can be so expensive is lack of capacity. And the reason for lack of capacity is lack of equipment (and of course, lack of track capacity in the tunnels around NYC). So the solution is obvious - get more equipment and fix the tunnels in NYC. The good news is, both of these are in progress. The new Acela trains should allow half hourly service NYC-DC and hourly service NYC-Boston. Hopefully once they get more equipment for regional trains, they will add trains there too.
I found this quite an informative video, as always! Now, I know about some of the issues with the _Northeast_ _Regional_ service: airplane-like boarding (including how the "gates" aren't even announced until 15 minutes before departure), irregular departure times, and most of the services skipping at least one station. I find your ideas on how to fix them quite interesting!
Your idea of running services on a regular schedule (express every 30 minutes, local every 60 minutes) reminds me of the San Diego Trolley in my home city, where each service operates every 15 minutes. Likewise, nearly all _Pacific_ _Surfliners_ departing north from Santa Fe Depot depart at times ending with :01 (for example, 4:01, 5:01, 7:01, etc). I think such standardization (possibly facilitated by the arrival of new equipment, like the Airo trainsets) would be useful on the _Northeast_ _Regional._
Lastly, I find it quite cute that you named a dog, Reggie, after the _Regional._
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for mentioning Reggie :) I miss that cute dog. Glad we helped him find a forever home.
@@Thom-TRA, you're welcome!
That scheduling plan would be amazing.
The random stopping patterns is taken straight from UK rail. UK inter-city trains work the exact same way. But UK inter-city trains do have assigned seating in 100% of 1st class and std premium and some non-reserved seats in standard class and they will overbook and force people to sit in the vestibules at least on LNER (not sure if Avanti West Coast does that). UK trains also have airline style pricing and at London termini do the same mad rush boarding where the platform is only announced 5 minutes before departure. Their long haul trains do tend to run faster on average only because passenger has priority over freight everywhere in the UK and most freight trains run at night. But the longest corridor in the UK, the WCML is about 100 miles shorter than the NEC, a London to Glasgow AWC service that's only stopping at Stafford, Crewe, Stockport, Manchester, Preston, Carlisle and Glasgow takes about 4.5 hours.
Outstanding suggesting. Hopefully, someone from Amtrak will watch this video.
Good suggestions! I believe Amtrak has a similar variable pricing model as used by airlines, so higher prices for certain trains at popular times, less at less popular times. This perhaps reflects the fundamental difference between Amtrak and some European intercity train services: the latter are viewed more as public transit services, while Amtrak is viewed as another transport mode, competing with airlines. That difference is very clear at BWI - the last rail option to DC departs around well before 11pm; plenty of flights arrive after that.
MARC should run trains later and more frequently, if the track capacity on the NE a corridor Penn line would allow it. Unfortunately the funding crisis affecting Maryland transportation infrastructure makes additional service unlikely. WMATA Metrobus used to have a bus to BWI (from Greenbelt) that I used once, but I think that disappeared.
It’s insane to me that the last MARC leaves at like 9:00. It’s one of the only commuter rails with big cities on BOTH ends!!
Lack of flat rates is so stressful! Even if there were multiple standard rates, e.g. cheaper during the less popular hours of the day, it would be better. I'm trying to visit someone in DC, and tickets ranged from around $40 to literally $120 on the same date. So I'm having to plan my arrival & departure around how I can spend under $100 round-trip, and not when is actually most convenient...
This right here. If Amtrak had a standard rate I’d budget for it and they’d have 100% of my business. Now I keep checking the bus companies to see if they’re cheaper, and until Megabus croaked they usually were.
You are right about the boarding process. Why can’t you have a reserved seat. But I must say I got a reserved seat on an Acela and it was facing someone at a tiny table who was eating a sandwich and clearly had a cold. The conductor did accommodate my request to move SI nice there were other seats but it seemed absurd to put me there in the first place.
The cattle-call boarding is a special feature of originating stations. Everywhere else it's unusual for the line to get crazy.
I think the main motive for keeping people off the platforms until the train is due to arrive is safety/security. They don't want staff to have to monitor people wandering off at random times. 9/11 also changed a lot. I used to have some local government business on the grounds of Baltimore Penn Station, on both sides of the tracks. Before the security crackdown, we would walk across the tracks. Occasionally someone associated with the trains would look annoyed, but all the trains stop at the station, so there's really not a safety risk to crossing right next to it. But after 9/11 we had to drive all the way around.
Interesting
Great video. I'm doing a trip to the Northeast soon and really tried to make the NEC fit my plans, but it somehow ended up much cheaper AND much more convenient to get a rental car, even though I'll be going between major city centers. Your plans would fix this.
That’s utterly depressing to think about haha. Safe travels!
Outstanding Video As Usual 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 Thanks Thom😊
Thank you, you’re welcome!
I know it would be really expensive but I think a tunnel from Long Island to Connecticut should be built and NEC trains could serve Jamaica station and JFK airport. Metro North could even be extended to serve Long Island too.
Yeah that would make sense, wouldn’t it?
Amtrak and Metro North should start by building a station at Astoria-Ditmars which connects to the N W line. As well as a station in Sunnyside Queens. I am traveling from Queens. Why should I travel all the way into Manhattan to go back into Queens if I am traveling north to Connecticut or Boston? It is easier for me to just drive over the Throgs Neck and pick up Amtrak in New Rochelle.
@@alk61695That Station I heard wouldn't be practical and not see enough ridership to justify its construction. Maybe in the future.
A long Island Super express is much needed.
@alk61695 the Regional Planning Association has said, and MTA New York City Tranist acknowledges that the demand is there for an Astoria-Ditmars stop, but the MTA determined the capacity is not there because Metro-North will be using the tracks to get to Penn Station.
All of this discussion is about Tribro Rx / IBX which would basically be a subway / metro train that stops in every neighborhood along the way, but south of Astoria and north of Hell's gate, it would be using MTA owned tracks that currently only do freight.
(While not critical to justifying the demand, and there is community opposition), the MTA proposes the (elevated) subway train currently below where the station would be, be extended to serve LaGuaria Airport. BRT from the stop is also proposed to transfer to the airport.
As someone who rides the train from the Hampton Roads area of Virginia to North Jersey, I noticed that you focused on improvements geared towards the Northeast Corridor areas of the Northeast Regional. South of DC, the service is much more broken when it comes to train availability, timing reliability, and ticket pricing because only a handful of NER trains continue on to Norfolk or Newport News, and all of them need to change locomotives at Union Station because the southern ends of the line aren't electrified. So, without upgrading the tracks themselves, I have 3 added recommendations that could help improve service on the southern extensions of the NER (and maybe it could help the northern extensions as well):
1.) Amtrak needs to upgrade a sizable portion of its NER rolling stock to bi-modal diesel/overhead catenary powered locomotives. Not only would this allow for a much needed increase in frequency for the far reaching stops on the Northeast Regional's route, but it would also allow for through-running at/past DC; eliminating the lengthy turn around time and confusing track changes that come with swapping entire locomotives.
2.) More day trains to Newport News and Norfolk. Right now, we have 2 trains per station on an alternating schedule between the stations; with a connector bus that takes about hour (without tunnel traffic) to connect the stations in Norfolk to Newport News. Short of building a rail tunnel under the bay, this is the best way to improve accessibility for those who can't reach a train on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay. Otherwise, potential riders would need to fight through nearly DC levels of gridlocked traffic to get there. Furthermore, increasing service to a hourly or bi-hourly schedule would definitely make trains to Richmond and DC much more appealing than a 1 or 3 hour drive to either city, respectively (again, without including rush-hour traffic).
3.) Start running Amtrak's _Night Owl_ overnight service again from Newport News to NYC. The NER is long enough that an overnight train lines up perfectly for travelers willing to take an 8 hour train trip. This would not only open up yet another option for trains to connect the Hampton Roads area to the Northeast, but it also would allow locals to travel up to DC, NYC, or Boston without taking away time during the day from work or exploring the city.
Your first suggestion is happening already, and the night owl runs as well.
As for why I didn’t talk about Virginia, well, you might not like this, but I think Virginia service should be severed from the Northeast Regional. A one-seat ride for a few passengers is not worth running a train on the country’s busiest rail corridor onto tracks that could not be more different.
Regular, frequent, punctual service restricted to the corridor would be better for Virginians. No matter the delay in VA, their train can pull up next to an NER for an easy transfer.
Thom knows that some of the armchaoir experts are going to get mad. But he made that video anyways. I respect you for that! Also, I agree with many of your takes, because they are reasonable!
As a german I am also kinda pissed of by our pricing systems. They are a mess and if you not used to the DB Navigator APP or the website of DB, you will get confused and take your cars anyways. This rant applies to regional and long distance trains. The Deutschlandticket made it much better for the regionals (49 € per month, including all local transit in the whole country) but that will get more expensive as well in the next year...
About your Express and stopping service idea, I would like to add another proposal. The Northeast regional should stay an express train like a german IC or ICE and just make limited stops. Like every hour. And there should additional regional commuter trains which are an intermediate solution between stopping services and the Northeast regional fast trains. It is the german model. You have "Regionalbahn"/"S-Bahn" (not including Berlin and Hamburg, those S-Bahn-systems are special!) which slow regional commuter trains which run every 30 to 60 minutes and stop at every station in the region. Then you have "Regionalexpress"-trains which are still regional commuter trains but are generally faster and make less stops. That means, that a traveller from a small village can take the S-Bahn to the nex bigger city, than change to a Regionalexpress to get faster to the next big hub and board his ICE there.
But I guess that won't really work on the corridor since all the regional transport authorities must work together...
And at last, thank you for mentioning the boarding process on the big hub stations. I never got why that airport like procedere is necesary. In the rest of the world, ppl just wait at the plattform and thats it. What were they thinking?
Only a few European trains in my personal experience, but thanks Thom for giving us a few insights as to what is possible and worth serious consideration by Amtrak.
Great video! As a frequent NER user, and diehard train/Amtrak fan, I have a few notes:
One, my biggest grievance with the regional is price. Ticket prices are absurd nowadays. I go to school in MD but live in CT. The Regional is by far the most convenient way for me to get between these two places. However, even booking a month out, tickets are already going for over $100 per way! Oftentimes if my trip is last minute or even remotely unplanned, I’ll end up flying as it’s cheaper for me (I have credit card points). I’m fine with it as I love planes just as much as I love trains and I personally enjoy flying even with all its nuisances, but I *much* prefer to take the train. When I was a kid my family would often drive when traveling up and down the coast as train tickets were too cost prohibitive. The Regional is supposed to be the *economical* train option, but at the prices they demand many in the NE are priced out.
I understand part of this isn’t Amtrak’s fault. Demand far exceeds supply on the corridor currently and that’s unlikely to change at least until the Airos enter service. But there are many times nowadays where I see ACELAS going for lower prices than similarly timed Regionals. So I feel like part of this is Amtrak’s fault. Which takes me into my second point: Technology.
Amtrak needs to invest more in its IT infrastructure. Not only due to unreasonable and downright strange pricing, but from a consumer standpoint their IT greatly lags their airline counterparts. Their app only supports basic trip features, while United lets you do basically everything under the sun for your reservation in its app. Amtrak has stated that seat reservations aren’t yet available on the Regional because their IT doesn’t support it for some reason. Digital infrastructure is just as important as physical infrastructure, and it’s time Amtrak took investing in it more seriously.
I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking the prices are outrageous
@@Thom-TRAbelieve me you’re not, and I’m honestly dumbfounded when others in the train community I speak to don’t see this as an issue. Trains are supposed to be an economical, accessible method of travel. Yet many times Amtrak, regardless of Regional or Acela, is the most expensive way to travel the northeast. It completely defeats the fundamental point of train travel: accessible quality public transportation
Another amazing Tra vid thom
You’ve barely watched it 😂 appreciate it!
Spain has security checks and does tickets before boarding on high speed trains-so my idea is either make tickets scanned before getting on board for corridor, VA Regionals, and Hartford line at most stations. The main issues with the timetable is base regional plus Acela, Keystone, Long Distance, and then the odd routes that are neither regionals nor long distance that should have a second train (Pennsylvanian, Carolinian, Vermonter). The PA services kind of throw the cadence off unless the MARC Penn Line properly fills in the gap-be nice if MARC had a few DC-Baltimore limited express trains at random times that serve New Carrollton, Odenton, and BWI, basically fulfilling the same role as the Keystone between Harrisburg and Philadelphia (give it a cool nickname like the Corridor Connection that’s roughly timed with one express regional and then have a local timed with the other and have a base rate for travel from EWR (to Newark Penn and NY Penn) and BWI (to Baltimore and DC) with NJT and MARC so you can just get a ticket on the platform and walk on to whatever train you want. I can side with Amtrak though on seasonal fluctuations, but the Regional and Acela should be less inflated than they get. Final days spike for the Acela and long distance routes is justifiable in the same way business class used to work in aviation
Wish they would add Secaucus Junction, as many of us NJ Transit customers connect there, but have to go to Newark Penn, NY Penn, or, for lesser departures, EWR, to connect to Amtrak.
I actually thought of adding SEC to my map!
Yeah... Those lines for boarding at DC Union Station are why I board at New Carrollton for the NER...
But then all the seats are taken 🥲
@@Thom-TRA thats also why i take the train that leaves at like 5:30 am 😂
I actually really like your Regional A/Regional B idea. I think their stopping patterns can best be described as (to quote JTA), "Zoned Express". This is a concept that is quite powerful, especially on really long distance routes. Though I have to question the necessity of two express regionals every hour would work. I don't know how the demand is, but I feel like 20 minute headways with one express, one A and one B train every hour leaving on top, 20 minutes past and 40 minutes past the hour. Since the Regional A and B alternate express and local running on different parts of the route, any section of the NEC will have 2 "express" and one local train an hour. This makes sense, right?
51 million people. All these trains are packed. You could easily, easily fill 4 trains per hour.
I hope I get a chance to ride this train someday. I know I’d love to ride any Amtrak I can with an acs-64 leading. I would make sure I’d had have to anywhere on the northeast corridor. I want to experience all the speeds it would be doing along the route.
They’re good-looking locomotives!
13:10 I like our system in Germany,
You have S-Bahn, a frequent commuter train for metro areas stopping everywhere and featuring trains with many doors for quick stops.
RB (Regionalbahn) also stops everywhere but is usually found outside of metro areas or is a distinction from RE. Usually no faster than 160km/h
RE (Regional Express) limited stops, longer routes (up to a few hours) speeds mostly don't exceed 160 but some go 200km/h
IC (Intercity) long distance across the whole country with stops in smaller cities but way less than RE, 160 or 200km/h top
ICE (InterCityExpress) long distance, up to 300km/h (320 in France) limited stops to mostly just medium and big cities.
And finally ICE-S (ICE Sprinter) VERY limited stops only on the fastest routes linking the biggest cities. 300km/h and for example the one between Munich and Berlin takes you halfway across the country with only 1 (or maybe 2?) intermediate stops
I agree it shouldn't matter what time the train is, the price should be the same. WMATA Metrorail used to have rush hour fares, but got rid of them last year
14:18 The "Regional Express" feels redundant because it'd be basically an Acela without the high speed trainset.
Except for the price point of the regional, so I fail to see how that’s redundant