Funny how despite them nerfing the Ambassador because they didn’t want to make Spy into a Sniper, they didn’t nerf the Diamondback even though it’s a much easier version of the Ambassador, especially with the crits having no falloff damage
But with the diamondback you have to at least get a few stabs or saps before being able to kill enemies from across the map, which means at absolute minimum 30 - 60 seconds of doing normal spy stuff. With the pre-nerf Ambassador Spies could just leave spawn and head straight to the Sniper battlements and start dominating the enemy team without ever having to do actual spy stuff.
9:20 that's such a simple but effective way to compare stock weapons to unlocks (rather than the other way around), i'm surprised i haven't seen other people do this
"wow theres stats and details about the weapon and you can think about if it's good or not??" " that's so cool why hasnt anyone used their brains before! 🙀😼"
@@orangutanman2470 «simple but effective» «i’m surprised i haven’t seen other people do this» you literally just repeated what he said in monkeebrainlanguage… which fits your name
@@spribom2676 my man literally said he hasnt seen other people do this when it's like the main way of figuring out if a weapon is good our not, he's making it sound like reading the stats is unique
Edit: WARNING THE AMBY IS ACTUALLY GOOD. COMMENTS TOLD ME SO. I lost all my really good Spy footage so I just have to use this instead 👀 What class shall I do next? :)
Funny thing about the Diamond Back: it used to only give crits on sapping, like you mentioned. And when it was like that, it was considered really weak and situational because it required the enemy team to have an engineer with constructed buildings to be useful. The buff that added backstabs gaining crits is what pushed it over the edge. What's a good fix? No idea, personally.
Personally I think it should give crits for a certain amount of time. You get stab and then go wild with your gun for like 2 or 3 seconds, like something out of a James Bond movie
Crits only on backstabs? A much lower crit cap (like “approximately the clip size”)? Very slight Bullet spread (like they were considering for the Amby before implementing its critical falloff instead)? Downgrading it to mini-crits? Reverting it to only gaining Crits on Sap but having it gain several at once (probably 3)? Giving it the Amby’s critical falloff? There’s a lot of reasonable nerfs of varying intensity available. A game that updated more often would be able to just pick one and try it out to see how well it works, but that’s never been Valve’s style.
I think it needs either a slower firing speed, so that you're punished for missing and you can't pop people for 102 as fast as stock. Or they should make the crits have a limited amount of time that they can be used
Diamondback nerf is really easy. 1) replace crits with mini-crits (so you still have a reward but with damage falloff as you should) 2) replace damage penalty with -34% clip size penalty (so damage penalty dont eat bonus damage from mini-crits, and you still have fire power downside as well as higher punishment for missing)
my personal idea to balance the DB is to replace the +1 crit on backstab to: "on backstab, any kills within 5 seconds give +1 crits." this would make it more of a chainstab weapon, while still making it good against engis.
Nah, all you have to do is sap one random teleporter on the map and play as sniper. It's simple: Farm crits on new players and punish skilled players for it.
@@tony-te7gd No, it's inconsistent because depending on how good/what enviroment you're playing in those crits just aren't feasible. In competitive this gun is next to useless relative to the extra cloak or consistency of other guns
Sorry, but i stand with what FishStick on a stick says. Just because the diamond back is a straight upgrade from stock, it doesn't mean the Amby is bad. Is a pick weapon, to shoot low health target out of nowhere, that compensate precise aiming from a short to middle distance. Is not bad, is just that the l'Etranger is more useful and the Diamond Back is broken.
@@azerod7436 Me with my aussie amby over here like: "Wait people dont use this?" To specify I never used it when it was very strong cause I couldn't aim for heads and was better off with the l'etranger or stock
I agree, BUT in a tier list context the fact is that the Diamondback is strictly better than the ambassador in almost all situations results in a low tier for the Amby simply because you could be using the diamondback instead.
I feel like the ambassador is still incredible It turns out a short range character has a short range weapon yet for some reason people exploded when they couldn't snipe anymore
@@matildec.4202 it’s 102 instant if you hit a specific hitbox, then you wait 1.5ish seconds to be able to do that again and by that point the stock revolver is just better damage and amount of times you can deal damage wise.
I don't think the amby is nearly that bad. I watched the video you linked and while the numbers on paper make it out to be terrible the ambassador shines in one very important situation: on demand burst damage at close range. Close range is where Spy is at his weakest. Unless you're some trickstabbing god most classes can kill Spy at close range pretty easily (especially true if random crits are enabled (trickstabbing isn't that effective of a tactic against good players)). Hitting that 102 is really strong, and you only need a quick bodyshot afterwards to kill light classes. And unlike the Diamondback there's no set up or resource to keep track of, there are times where getting those saps and stabs isn't easy which makes the DB dead weight. And if you miss your crit shot then that's just gone forever, now you're fighting for your life with a straight downgrade. Am I saying that the Diamond Back is trash or that the Ambassador is SSSS tier? No the DB is pretty strong and the amby isn't god tier. I'm just saying the amby's niche is a valuable one to help patch one of Spy's many weaknesses so it's probably a solid B tier.
@@kolinaspronok sorta, the revolver is probably better overall and the diamondback is good too if you do have crits stored up. I'm just making the case that the amby is far from the worst of the worst
@@milliondollarmistake oh don't get me wrong, I made a whole comment defending the amby by using statements from both fsoas and zesty Jesus to which I fully agree. People are mad that now the ambassador is on-parr with stock and not a direct upgrade.
I also think that putting amby next to enforcer, which has much more niche use than amby is dumb. +20% dmg for first shot most of the time not matters, cuz, when you are using the revolver, you either try to finish off enemy that is out of your range, playing gunspy (or spycicle after pyro) or killing snipers with razorback. And, with first, while more dmg may help, you either still 2 shot someone, just as with stock, or you oneshot him cuz he has too low health. And in second case I most often find enemies with low enough hp to be finished with 1 l'etranger shot. Meanwhile, if you are good with hitting amby shots, you may almost entirely remove first case, where enemies are 2 shot with stock, or guarantee that almost all of the encounters will be 2 shotted. And, while piercing resistances is great, there are only 3 most common situations when enemies have resistances. Most common is demoknight. But, if he sees you, he will most likely be pretty full, especially if he is samurai, so no revolver (except for db) will help you, only pray that you can trick-or-facestab him. Second is, much more rarer, vaccinator. But, like, backstab him. And third is batalion's. But, again, better backstab them. More dmg will mostly only matter at super close range, otherwise you will have fall off and won't do max dmg. So, backstab. Fist of steel is also an unlock, but I don't think that you will find so much heavies with it, and if you do, why not backstab them? They can just cycle to get out minigun and shred you with your dmg piercing gun. So, why even bother trying to pierce when you can backstab? And, while yes, you can 2 shot razorback sniper with 1 enhanced and regular shot with enforcer, he might be also low enough to be oneshotted by amby or db. Enforcer is just worthless most of the time, you are using regular revolver but with slower firing speed and no random crits. But amby is also worthless, cuz you can use diamond back. Diamond back is just straight up broken in his concept. So, to not be the most op gun for spy, it needs to be reworked, otherwise it will be too good. And yes, I do think that amby should be at B tier next to yer. It is situational and fun weapon, just as yer.
I wouldn’t consider amby among the worst spy weapons (and no way it’s as bad as the enforcer or red tape). I would consider it on par with the cloak gun (I cannot spell it out) in that B range if tiering things, you are a pick class as spy… you do not care about consistent damage as much as burst your kill key targets and the amby does this for you. Yes you need to get good and headshot and you cannot be diet sniper but the range nerf isn’t as bad as people made it out to be, you are still doing considerable damage at midrange and can do excellent numbers at close range which is where you want to be anyway (just because you can’t meme with the amby anymore doesn’t mean it’s bad guys…)
I don't think the amby (and enforcer) are ranked so low because they are bad weapons, but that everything else is just better. Sure, it has potential for extremely high damage and is useful against razorback snipers, but compared to the others it just falls short. A crit from the diamondback does more damage, doesn't require nearly as much precision, and deals the same amount of damage at any distance. The stock revolver, while it does have less potential dps, will generally kill of an enemy much quicker than the amby unless you have godlike aim (at which point you should just be playing sniper if you're that good) and is generally more reliable. It's not really possible to compare the l'etranger to the amby since they both serve wildly different purposes and really depend on playstyle. I will concede however that the amby is definitely better than the enforcer.
@@gekks5250 I think that the amby isn’t worse than the other revolvers. It’s more so like a burst > dps sidegrade against stock, and the stranger is hard to rank against the two because it’s main use isn’t for damage. I could agree about the diamondback, but I think people seem tp give the limited pool of crits less than it’s worth. I would rank amby basically the same as stock
@@vyor8837 do me a favor and equip the enforcer next time your team is unable to push because of a wrangler engie. Or a vaccinator medic. Sure, it's not great relative to all the other options as i laid out in detail in my previous comment, but it certainly has its uses.
I suggest buffing the YOR by making the backstabbed enemy turn into a spy corpse, to help tricking players that turn around and see a dead spy and a player on their team.
That seems cool but wouldn't people catch onto it pretty quickly, like wouldn't it be super suspicious if a player is standing next to the body of four enemy spies because they got a chain stab.
"nice 4 spies died" also nah but they should make it truly silent like the corpse falling and stab noise also make the corpse inta disappear instead of cloaking
I mean, I think that personally all of the Spy's revolvers are good. Stock is the most reliable; The L'Etranger is best utilized as a tool for cloak management; The Diamondback is broken and weak after you run out of crits; The Enforcer doesn't actually have a damage penalty (only a slower firing speed and no random crits, but it can deal full damage against a Vaccinator Medic or Battalion's Backup Soldier); and The Ambassador can still deal considerable damage (depending on your aim) because the headshot crits are far more reliable than the Diamondback...because the Diamondback's crits you have to work for, whereas with the Amby you simply just have to aim.
Fun Fact, and I discovered this a while ago but told nobody. The enforcer, believe it or not, doesn't require you to be fully disguised for the damage bonus. If you spam the previous disguise key 'b' by default, you do the extra damage on every shot as long as you repeatedly press it.
I noticed with a lot of new players that try to pick up spy (so like all of them) they think new unlock automatically means better when in reality spy is arguably best when you don’t even touch his load out
Stock is unbelievably flexible, definitely my favorite loadout. I like to alternate between aggressive gunplay and picks to confuse the enemy, and that's just much harder on pretty much every other loadout
My favorite loadout, for I kinda list interest in the backstabbing idea behind spy: Gunspy Strange Revolver with a clever name (Mine is Lucky Luke) Spy-cicle (Only for Medic drops or big targets like heavies, also for surivivability against Pyros) Sapper and Disguisekit (Duh) Dead Ringer (Survivability and Fooling)
Gunspy is hilariously fun to use - I have a friend that named his strange revolver "the power of John lives in me" (which is a reference to elmaxo's video 'Gun Spy Unleashed') and already has a ton of kills xD Gunspy is honestly just super fun Not to mention the fat critical hits the revolver can do lol
@@ItsMeLarky Oh yes, the random crits~ It's one of the many reasons why I called my Revolver Lucky Luke. *sigh* I wish it was the true and original one, for I got my first scammed a couple years ago.
The ambassador is actually quite good and the vid linked doesn't really do it justice. 125 and 150hp = 2 shot (3 shot with revolver), also means butterknife + headshot will kill 175 hp = 3 shot with both 200 hp = 3 shot (4 shots with revolver) 300 hp = 5 for both Hitting the first headshot usually isn't too difficult and if you can do this it's an upgrade to stock. Also usually most classes are slightly damaged which usually pushes classes down a damage threshold meaning you get lots of 1 shots on people. Additionally most engagements as spy are within this range where the ambassador is most effective. The video ALSO didn't take into account reload time which would give the ambassador an edge as it gets more damage output per bullet than the normal revolver. If you are in an engagement with multiple people you are more likely to kill them in one clip with the ambassador rather than the revolver. TLDR: If you can land at least one headshot in an engagement ambassador is better at close range.
I've found the l'etrangers damage penalty isn't as punishing as it seems. You can still 3 shot light classes so razorback snipers can still be taken down the same as stock.
I don't see how spycicle isn't just a straight upgrade. The periods of times where you can't stab because your knife is recharging are... instances where you'd be dead otherwise because it means it let you escape from a Pyro... and those periods are the only downside right?
9:22 The stats would actually be +17.5% damage and +25% faster firing speed since converting percentages isn't that straightforward as changing symbols
Personally I believe the Spyicicle to be a straight upgrade from stock, aslong as you're confident in your ability to use the gun, which you really should be, it really has no downside.
My personal loadout for Spy is Revolver, Dead-ringer and Spy-cicle. I play a much more front-line/team oriented Spy who aids in fights and picks off weakened targets and protects flanks from classes like Scout and Pyro. The stock Revolver does some serious damage if aimed correctly, and the Spy-cicle and Dead-ringer help with survivability against Pyros and otherwise stronger classes. I don't get tons of backstabs but when I do it's often on my way from the enemy's base back to my side of the base so I can keep up the front-line support.
ah I think I know where you got this from. I said 'Amby is worse than stock' and I also put it low on the tier list. These two things were'nt directly related. The ranking on the tier list is just based on general research (as with most stuff in this video as I've not got a lot of hours on Spy) but based on the response to this video looks like that research might be misinformed, a lot of people are saying it's good.
Cloak and Dagger has one hidden talent,Its that you could back into a few corners when the enemy chases you down.Knowing that they calmed down and you are still in the area,you could strike again without wasting your time.And people won't even realize that you have the cloak and dagger.
I personally use amby stock and the duck wach, the amby can be useful when traversing the map and has technically more crits than the diamond back. Plus it feels way more fair
Does anyone find it ironically funny that the R-T.R. is better against mini-sentries than regular ones even though it's whole thing is de-upgrading sentries?
IMO, spycicle is the worst knife. Pyroes can still really easily track you. Second worst is the yer. I hate saying it, but one comm and your disguise is blown. Its only good for stainstabs really, and the big earner does that better
My personal favorite most of the time is the Kunai + either the dead ringer or the cloak and dagger. If I use the cloak and dagger, I use the L'tranger, and if I use the dead ringer I usually use the stock pistol.
I like the red tape because an engine can usually repeat sapper damage if they remove it fast. But losing a level on a sentry or a dispenser right before a push can really affect it.
My preferred Spy loadout: none, because I don't ever play Spy 😈 I already have enough anxiety when I play and plus, there's usually already four spies anyway.
Same lol If I ever pick Spy I usually just A: "oh god what if I mess up and disappoint my team" *switches off Spy* Or B: *goes Gun Spy mode and trolls*
@@ItsMeLarky gotta rmb if everyone's shit at spy, you're most likely never gonna be complained at by your team, seeing that nobody has the guts to pull it off except you Everyones too busy playing soldier or pyro and holding down m1...
What if spy had a watch where you could pass through enemies, and fall damage increases your cloak, but the downside is you can't backstab until like 10 seconds after you decloak.
it would be pretty underpowered, passing trough enemies and refilling clock by self damage would be broken tbh, but having to wait 10 seconds is too much considering how often you decloak, get a backstab, run and cloak again in often 5 to 7 seconds as spy
Spy is my least played class,could someone explain how the spycicle isn't better than stock? Unless your objective is to just kill the medic and then die, isn't it better to be alive without a knife for a few seconds than burnt to a crisp?
Actually its either The Cloak and Dagger or Inivis Watch(Dont use the dead ringer it drains too fast and youll need the L’Etranger if you want some cloak duration and also it has loud decloak)
The enforcer can be quite useful for wrangled sentries if you can't get into the nest, and the slower fire speed is only a drawback in close range since it helps with the after shot accuracy penalty
Thanks for the video, as a spy main I thought it was really entertaining. Also Amby < Stock Cause if you simply body shot with the Amby you do significantly less damage compared to stock, and the point at which you do more damage than stock requires you hit Multiple headshots in a row which is much more effort than what it's worth.Basically Stock is better because it does more damage while requiring less aim.
Kunai LE'tranger Sapper I don't use my gun much except for finishing off wounded targets and I find the extra cloak time on the LE'tranger to be very valuable when using a knife like the Kunai which require you to play more passively until you get your first stab. If you're familiar with maps and the ammo pack locations, you can essentially be cloaked the entire time and be able to pick spots while still having mobility. This of course for pubs, otherwise I think your default loadout is superior for more competitive play.
The ambassador is up in b tier. The diamondback is a dumber and better version of it, However, the ambassadors theoretically higher dps of the stock I’d say doesn’t matter all to much. Because in the end, spy isn’t nor capable of being a dps class, he is a pick class who wants to minimize the time they are noticeable, so having those meatier revolver shots to more often kill in one or at most two shots, instead of a 2,3 and at absolute most in actual gameplay 4. I’d say this makes it better for a lot of situations where you need a slightly safer pick. The Crit fall of in these situations where you are in flanks already isn’t much of a factor,. In these situations it can even outdo the the diamondback, or just equal because these are times where you couldn’t get a stab. In other words, while technically stock can output more damage, if you have half decent aim the ambassador expands what the spy can accomplish, and it’s weaknesses can be a small problem, but are less common for spy’s general role. Which I would say makes it up with the stack and letranje
Also I think the Cloak and Dagger is the best watch personally, with the enforcer you can kind of play spy gun spy, hide in an area disguising and messing with your opponent but with the forcefully slower gunfight which you choose because you can hide and move anywhere, fun and satisfying
I do enjoy Your Eternal Reward with Diamondback and Dead Ringer. I disguise as someone before I leave spawn, start stabbing people, and if I think I’m about to get sussed out, I activate dead ringer and look for heals before doing it all again. Diamondback is just there for when I need to shoot, as that way I will usually have crits built up.
I don't agree about big earner. -25 hp is not so much comparing to such a strong bonuses. Actually in most of cases it's no matter how much HP spy has. If he was spotted - he escapes or dies. But with this bonus you could have more chances to escape. So I don't care about -25 hp, this knife is much better than stock.
The one thing I do like about the Dead Ringer is that it forces the Spy to learn how to be stealthy without being invisible, whether that is choosing good routes to take to get behind the enemy, or acting as an enemy better.
That is a good point and one that I don't see brought up very often. In general, the Dead Ringer just prioritizes different aspects of playing the spy. I've never particularly liked the argument that it's a braindead weapon that gives a broken benefit with no effort, because well... if someone is so ineffective at spy that they're not even going to sell the fake death, or pull it out at the first sign of trouble, what are the odds they're going to do something productive with their get-out-of-jail card? But people that are actually good at using the Dead Ringer, well, they've mastered figuring out how an enemy would act in that precise situation, they can read a fight well enough to fake the death when it would be believable, and their knowledge of the map is pretty crucial to both effectively choosing engagement routes, and escape routes. Those are not trivial things to learn.
I'd say that Spy doesn't really have a definitely best loadout, it just comes down to personal preference. Excluding the Enforcer and the Red-Tape Recorder, every single unlock has its fans and, especially between the 3 top knifes and the 4 top revolvers, it comes down to personal preference. Even between the watches, which is pretty one sided for stock, each one has its fans. That's part of the reason why Spy is so fun to play. (Diamondback, Sapper, Knife, C&D)
the Ambassador isn't bad at all, a good spy with the Ambassador can still be really infuriating, I think that you should watch Fish on a stick's video on the Ambassador
the day i found out the spy-cicle does the melting sound to the enemy team as well was the day i stopped using it. There's no point to trying to try to outsmart a pyro via disguising and then not getting burned by him because the pyro still hears the spy-cicle melt. The only use for it is gunspy. The big earner and the kunai are both valid sidegrades to stock, i prefer both to stock personally but that's because I enjoy the high highs of backstabs. My two builds are diamondback,kunai and stock invis, and l'etranger, big earner and dead ringer. I don't use the amby because holy shit aiming with it is pain, and sometimes i use the stock revolver for shits and giggles. The YER is by far the worst knife, simply because of the cloak drain. It was better when it didn't have the cloak penalty and you couldn't disguise with it.
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Funny how despite them nerfing the Ambassador because they didn’t want to make Spy into a Sniper, they didn’t nerf the Diamondback even though it’s a much easier version of the Ambassador, especially with the crits having no falloff damage
They really ought to
Apples
But with the diamondback you have to at least get a few stabs or saps before being able to kill enemies from across the map, which means at absolute minimum 30 - 60 seconds of doing normal spy stuff. With the pre-nerf Ambassador Spies could just leave spawn and head straight to the Sniper battlements and start dominating the enemy team without ever having to do actual spy stuff.
@@Ethan11892 yeah, diamandback rewards being spy, old ambassador encouraged not being spy
"My favorite class is the spy"
9:20 that's such a simple but effective way to compare stock weapons to unlocks (rather than the other way around), i'm surprised i haven't seen other people do this
hello lister!
"wow theres stats and details about the weapon and you can think about if it's good or not??" " that's so cool why hasnt anyone used their brains before! 🙀😼"
@@orangutanman2470 «simple but effective» «i’m surprised i haven’t seen other people do this» you literally just repeated what he said in monkeebrainlanguage… which fits your name
@@spribom2676 my man literally said he hasnt seen other people do this when it's like the main way of figuring out if a weapon is good our not, he's making it sound like reading the stats is unique
@@orangutanman2470 what stats? you know the revolver doesn't actually have +15% damage listed right
Edit: WARNING THE AMBY IS ACTUALLY GOOD. COMMENTS TOLD ME SO.
I lost all my really good Spy footage so I just have to use this instead 👀
What class shall I do next? :)
Pyro
Def medic. He's my fav
@@judebacker145 Crossbow, stock uber and Uber saw
please make a video on killing people with a rock
Demoknight :>
Funny thing about the Diamond Back: it used to only give crits on sapping, like you mentioned. And when it was like that, it was considered really weak and situational because it required the enemy team to have an engineer with constructed buildings to be useful. The buff that added backstabs gaining crits is what pushed it over the edge. What's a good fix? No idea, personally.
Personally I think it should give crits for a certain amount of time. You get stab and then go wild with your gun for like 2 or 3 seconds, like something out of a James Bond movie
Crits only on backstabs?
A much lower crit cap (like “approximately the clip size”)?
Very slight Bullet spread (like they were considering for the Amby before implementing its critical falloff instead)?
Downgrading it to mini-crits?
Reverting it to only gaining Crits on Sap but having it gain several at once (probably 3)?
Giving it the Amby’s critical falloff?
There’s a lot of reasonable nerfs of varying intensity available. A game that updated more often would be able to just pick one and try it out to see how well it works, but that’s never been Valve’s style.
I think it needs either a slower firing speed, so that you're punished for missing and you can't pop people for 102 as fast as stock. Or they should make the crits have a limited amount of time that they can be used
Diamondback nerf is really easy.
1) replace crits with mini-crits (so you still have a reward but with damage falloff as you should)
2) replace damage penalty with -34% clip size penalty (so damage penalty dont eat bonus damage from mini-crits, and you still have fire power downside as well as higher punishment for missing)
my personal idea to balance the DB is to replace the +1 crit on backstab to: "on backstab, any kills within 5 seconds give +1 crits."
this would make it more of a chainstab weapon, while still making it good against engis.
Always saw the diamond back as a straight upgrade to the revolver.
You get free crits for just doing your job as spy.
Nah, all you have to do is sap one random teleporter on the map and play as sniper. It's simple: Farm crits on new players and punish skilled players for it.
@@dominikcz198 That just makes it not consistent
@@celestialowl8865 its only inconsistent if your spy gameplay is
I think is somewhat balanced
If you fail, well, you lose ur crits
@@tony-te7gd No, it's inconsistent because depending on how good/what enviroment you're playing in those crits just aren't feasible. In competitive this gun is next to useless relative to the extra cloak or consistency of other guns
Sorry, but i stand with what FishStick on a stick says. Just because the diamond back is a straight upgrade from stock, it doesn't mean the Amby is bad. Is a pick weapon, to shoot low health target out of nowhere, that compensate precise aiming from a short to middle distance. Is not bad, is just that the l'Etranger is more useful and the Diamond Back is broken.
Funny how people just stopped using it when it was nerfed and, well, never tried it ever again, despite it doing it’s job well
@@azerod7436 Me with my aussie amby over here like: "Wait people dont use this?"
To specify I never used it when it was very strong cause I couldn't aim for heads and was better off with the l'etranger or stock
Amby is overlooked because the Diamomdback isn't nerf alongside it
@@phucgiang395 it’s like the wrap assassin and sandman, except the metaphorical sandman is still quite useful
I agree, BUT in a tier list context the fact is that the Diamondback is strictly better than the ambassador in almost all situations results in a low tier for the Amby simply because you could be using the diamondback instead.
13:38
wait a second
its so cute, the engineer trying to save his sentry with the rescue ranger bolts
I feel like the ambassador is still incredible
It turns out a short range character has a short range weapon yet for some reason people exploded when they couldn't snipe anymore
If youre not sniping with the ambasador then its just a worse revolver
Ambassador sucks because it takes too much skill for such small reward. Its only good use is killing Razorback snipers.
@@januszpolak254 small reward? 102 instant damage doesn't seem like a small reward imo
@@matildec.4202 it’s 102 instant if you hit a specific hitbox, then you wait 1.5ish seconds to be able to do that again and by that point the stock revolver is just better damage and amount of times you can deal damage wise.
@@goldfishthedestroyer3233 well enemy could be dead by that time 102 damage is a lot and you can dont have to headshot again
I don't think the amby is nearly that bad. I watched the video you linked and while the numbers on paper make it out to be terrible the ambassador shines in one very important situation: on demand burst damage at close range. Close range is where Spy is at his weakest. Unless you're some trickstabbing god most classes can kill Spy at close range pretty easily (especially true if random crits are enabled (trickstabbing isn't that effective of a tactic against good players)). Hitting that 102 is really strong, and you only need a quick bodyshot afterwards to kill light classes. And unlike the Diamondback there's no set up or resource to keep track of, there are times where getting those saps and stabs isn't easy which makes the DB dead weight. And if you miss your crit shot then that's just gone forever, now you're fighting for your life with a straight downgrade.
Am I saying that the Diamond Back is trash or that the Ambassador is SSSS tier? No the DB is pretty strong and the amby isn't god tier. I'm just saying the amby's niche is a valuable one to help patch one of Spy's many weaknesses so it's probably a solid B tier.
Trickstabbing is extremely hard against good players, I've seen spies with auto-backstab hack do nothing because they're not allowing the trickstab
What that I read, you described a revolver side-grade that was kinda busted before it's deserved Nerf?
@@kolinaspronok sorta, the revolver is probably better overall and the diamondback is good too if you do have crits stored up. I'm just making the case that the amby is far from the worst of the worst
@@milliondollarmistake oh don't get me wrong, I made a whole comment defending the amby by using statements from both fsoas and zesty Jesus to which I fully agree. People are mad that now the ambassador is on-parr with stock and not a direct upgrade.
I also think that putting amby next to enforcer, which has much more niche use than amby is dumb. +20% dmg for first shot most of the time not matters, cuz, when you are using the revolver, you either try to finish off enemy that is out of your range, playing gunspy (or spycicle after pyro) or killing snipers with razorback. And, with first, while more dmg may help, you either still 2 shot someone, just as with stock, or you oneshot him cuz he has too low health. And in second case I most often find enemies with low enough hp to be finished with 1 l'etranger shot. Meanwhile, if you are good with hitting amby shots, you may almost entirely remove first case, where enemies are 2 shot with stock, or guarantee that almost all of the encounters will be 2 shotted.
And, while piercing resistances is great, there are only 3 most common situations when enemies have resistances. Most common is demoknight. But, if he sees you, he will most likely be pretty full, especially if he is samurai, so no revolver (except for db) will help you, only pray that you can trick-or-facestab him. Second is, much more rarer, vaccinator. But, like, backstab him. And third is batalion's. But, again, better backstab them. More dmg will mostly only matter at super close range, otherwise you will have fall off and won't do max dmg. So, backstab. Fist of steel is also an unlock, but I don't think that you will find so much heavies with it, and if you do, why not backstab them? They can just cycle to get out minigun and shred you with your dmg piercing gun. So, why even bother trying to pierce when you can backstab?
And, while yes, you can 2 shot razorback sniper with 1 enhanced and regular shot with enforcer, he might be also low enough to be oneshotted by amby or db. Enforcer is just worthless most of the time, you are using regular revolver but with slower firing speed and no random crits. But amby is also worthless, cuz you can use diamond back.
Diamond back is just straight up broken in his concept. So, to not be the most op gun for spy, it needs to be reworked, otherwise it will be too good. And yes, I do think that amby should be at B tier next to yer. It is situational and fun weapon, just as yer.
I wouldn’t consider amby among the worst spy weapons (and no way it’s as bad as the enforcer or red tape). I would consider it on par with the cloak gun (I cannot spell it out) in that B range if tiering things, you are a pick class as spy… you do not care about consistent damage as much as burst your kill key targets and the amby does this for you. Yes you need to get good and headshot and you cannot be diet sniper but the range nerf isn’t as bad as people made it out to be, you are still doing considerable damage at midrange and can do excellent numbers at close range which is where you want to be anyway (just because you can’t meme with the amby anymore doesn’t mean it’s bad guys…)
I don't think the amby (and enforcer) are ranked so low because they are bad weapons, but that everything else is just better. Sure, it has potential for extremely high damage and is useful against razorback snipers, but compared to the others it just falls short. A crit from the diamondback does more damage, doesn't require nearly as much precision, and deals the same amount of damage at any distance. The stock revolver, while it does have less potential dps, will generally kill of an enemy much quicker than the amby unless you have godlike aim (at which point you should just be playing sniper if you're that good) and is generally more reliable. It's not really possible to compare the l'etranger to the amby since they both serve wildly different purposes and really depend on playstyle.
I will concede however that the amby is definitely better than the enforcer.
@@gekks5250 I think that the amby isn’t worse than the other revolvers. It’s more so like a burst > dps sidegrade against stock, and the stranger is hard to rank against the two because it’s main use isn’t for damage. I could agree about the diamondback, but I think people seem tp give the limited pool of crits less than it’s worth. I would rank amby basically the same as stock
It's a revolver that's a good sidegrade to stock but its sad that the diamondback outclasses everything else.
@@gekks5250 the Enforcer is absolutely garbage.
@@vyor8837 do me a favor and equip the enforcer next time your team is unable to push because of a wrangler engie. Or a vaccinator medic. Sure, it's not great relative to all the other options as i laid out in detail in my previous comment, but it certainly has its uses.
Remember, the spycicle is basically stock at worst and god tier at best
is it tho? the spycicle is so bad that any semi-competent pyro can just track you after you activate it even if you use the dr too
At worst it's recharging and you can't use it. At best it's fire resistance that's activated by losing your knife.
I use it for getting past the defense to go kill teleporters.
@@ludwigiapilosa508 so its still garbage, you absolutely do not need the spycicle to do that
@@boofr no, but it can be the difference between sluffing off a stray fire particle and failure. I don't use it much but it's still decent for that.
I suggest buffing the YOR by making the backstabbed enemy turn into a spy corpse, to help tricking players that turn around and see a dead spy and a player on their team.
Then you have the problem of there being a pile of spy corpses if you get a chain stab tho, unless another stat limits how often it happens.
That would be a debuff, now seeing a dead spy means shoot the person. Otherwise you'd have heard gun shots.
That seems cool but wouldn't people catch onto it pretty quickly, like wouldn't it be super suspicious if a player is standing next to the body of four enemy spies because they got a chain stab.
@@showtime6310 maybe it having a 40% chance or something idk
"nice 4 spies died"
also nah but they should make it truly silent
like the corpse falling and stab noise also make the corpse inta disappear instead of cloaking
I remember back in 2014 i thought you could save a teammate that got backstabbed by an icycle with the pyro lol
Cloak and dagger + Lestrange + best trolling loadout ever
12:35 was the most disgusting facestab i have ever seen in my life
I mean, I think that personally all of the Spy's revolvers are good. Stock is the most reliable; The L'Etranger is best utilized as a tool for cloak management; The Diamondback is broken and weak after you run out of crits; The Enforcer doesn't actually have a damage penalty (only a slower firing speed and no random crits, but it can deal full damage against a Vaccinator Medic or Battalion's Backup Soldier); and The Ambassador can still deal considerable damage (depending on your aim) because the headshot crits are far more reliable than the Diamondback...because the Diamondback's crits you have to work for, whereas with the Amby you simply just have to aim.
Fun Fact, and I discovered this a while ago but told nobody. The enforcer, believe it or not, doesn't require you to be fully disguised for the damage bonus. If you spam the previous disguise key 'b' by default, you do the extra damage on every shot as long as you repeatedly press it.
No that was patched a week after the change
I noticed with a lot of new players that try to pick up spy (so like all of them) they think new unlock automatically means better when in reality spy is arguably best when you don’t even touch his load out
Stock is unbelievably flexible, definitely my favorite loadout. I like to alternate between aggressive gunplay and picks to confuse the enemy, and that's just much harder on pretty much every other loadout
I've been waiting for this series to come back for a year! So excited it's back. Can't wait to see the next one you do!
When he goes over the 25 less hp on the big earner, he brings up down time... The kunai has that but worse
The ambassador is good it deserved an a or b why c!?
Cloak and dagger with red tape recorder
Makes the engineers go mental trying to find me after i downgraded everything😂
Spycicle , Diamond Back, Dead Ringer.
I either run full stack, or stack with the cloak and dagger
7:06 golden pan: ...
9:44 Enthusiast's Timepiece: ...
My favorite loadout, for I kinda list interest in the backstabbing idea behind spy:
Gunspy
Strange Revolver with a clever name (Mine is Lucky Luke)
Spy-cicle (Only for Medic drops or big targets like heavies, also for surivivability against Pyros)
Sapper and Disguisekit (Duh)
Dead Ringer (Survivability and Fooling)
Glad to see Dr. Enforcicle still lives on in some players lol
@@gekks5250 Oh, uh, I use Stock Revolver but-
I like that name
@@thebotanist7145 oh, i kinda meant how your load out is basically just Dr enforcicle post enforcer nerf lol mb
Gunspy is hilariously fun to use - I have a friend that named his strange revolver "the power of John lives in me" (which is a reference to elmaxo's video 'Gun Spy Unleashed') and already has a ton of kills xD
Gunspy is honestly just super fun
Not to mention the fat critical hits the revolver can do lol
@@ItsMeLarky Oh yes, the random crits~
It's one of the many reasons why I called my Revolver Lucky Luke. *sigh* I wish it was the true and original one, for I got my first scammed a couple years ago.
honesty cloak and dagger seems better because with invis watch you stand still and it still uns out, but not with CaD
I still dont understand how valve can let the amby down for 5 years
You didn't even consider the spycicle when its literally a direct upgrade from stock.
The ambassador is actually quite good and the vid linked doesn't really do it justice.
125 and 150hp = 2 shot (3 shot with revolver), also means butterknife + headshot will kill
175 hp = 3 shot with both
200 hp = 3 shot (4 shots with revolver)
300 hp = 5 for both
Hitting the first headshot usually isn't too difficult and if you can do this it's an upgrade to stock. Also usually most classes are slightly damaged which usually pushes classes down a damage threshold meaning you get lots of 1 shots on people. Additionally most engagements as spy are within this range where the ambassador is most effective.
The video ALSO didn't take into account reload time which would give the ambassador an edge as it gets more damage output per bullet than the normal revolver. If you are in an engagement with multiple people you are more likely to kill them in one clip with the ambassador rather than the revolver.
TLDR: If you can land at least one headshot in an engagement ambassador is better at close range.
2 headshots kills every non-overhealed class in the game baring Heavy too, which is just insane.
I've found the l'etrangers damage penalty isn't as punishing as it seems. You can still 3 shot light classes so razorback snipers can still be taken down the same as stock.
0:16 I’ve been trying to find out what that TTS voice is actually called for years, what is it?
The diamond back
The eternal reward
The sapper
The cloak and dagger
Thats why the big earner is broken
it has a -25 hp bug
agreed
I’m a diamondback-eternal reward-invis watch guy. Silent kills and automatic disguises help with chainstabs, and each stab in that chain adds a crit
Deadringer is the weakest, most predictable watch and it absolutely blows my mind that people still fall for it.
The worst spy Load out is
the enforcer
Your eternal reward
Cloak and dagger
Red tape recorder
I call my loadout: The Grand Saboteur. It consists of the Diamondback, YER, CnD and RTR. You just abuse engies
Mine is cloak ‘n dagger, knife, diamondback and GIBUS
the enforcer is meta in highlander I think because it ignores wrangler shield making it a really good sentry sniper
I don't see how spycicle isn't just a straight upgrade. The periods of times where you can't stab because your knife is recharging are... instances where you'd be dead otherwise because it means it let you escape from a Pyro... and those periods are the only downside right?
the cloak and dagger is supreme.
always invisible = super sneaky
*_Agree._*
9:22 The stats would actually be +17.5% damage and +25% faster firing speed since converting percentages isn't that straightforward as changing symbols
Personally I believe the Spyicicle to be a straight upgrade from stock, aslong as you're confident in your ability to use the gun, which you really should be, it really has no downside.
and it recharges almost instantly after getting ammo, so if you know the map you can have your knife back in 4-5 seconds anyways
The problem is that you cant really fight Pyros close range.
With the stock knife you can easily trickstab a pyro but jot with the spycicle.
1:18 oh hey, it's me! Wait no, a spy!
how dare you rank the ambassador in the same tier as enforcer...directly to the shadow realm.
My personal loadout for Spy is Revolver, Dead-ringer and Spy-cicle. I play a much more front-line/team oriented Spy who aids in fights and picks off weakened targets and protects flanks from classes like Scout and Pyro. The stock Revolver does some serious damage if aimed correctly, and the Spy-cicle and Dead-ringer help with survivability against Pyros and otherwise stronger classes. I don't get tons of backstabs but when I do it's often on my way from the enemy's base back to my side of the base so I can keep up the front-line support.
"amby is bad because it is not better than stock" moment, opinion can't be taken seriously
I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything remotely close to that :)
ah I think I know where you got this from. I said 'Amby is worse than stock' and I also put it low on the tier list. These two things were'nt directly related. The ranking on the tier list is just based on general research (as with most stuff in this video as I've not got a lot of hours on Spy) but based on the response to this video looks like that research might be misinformed, a lot of people are saying it's good.
@@Toofty Okay, I kinda joking, when I typed "opinion can't be taken seriously", but anyway, i think you placed amby too low, it's a good sidegrade.
Cloak and Dagger has one hidden talent,Its that you could back into a few corners when the enemy chases you down.Knowing that they calmed down and you are still in the area,you could strike again without wasting your time.And people won't even realize that you have the cloak and dagger.
5:59 toofty:talking about big earner's benefits
me:YO this scouts name is lit
The Ambassador is a very good weapon. It ised to be S tier, but I think it's still at least low A tier.
no its probably mid B tier
Irish person who grows a specific type of ancient grain when the silo burns down:
"Oh no! Mi spelt!"
i use the
Kunai with cloak and dagger (yes i aint using that pile of garbage dead ringer) with diamond back(obviously)
Toofty upload???!!! Pog!!
Pog me
0:09 Looking foward to getting that loadout
9:20 Technically speaking, it'd be +18% damage.
I have for my lodout is stock knife and gun with cloak and dagger
I personally use amby stock and the duck wach, the amby can be useful when traversing the map and has technically more crits than the diamond back. Plus it feels way more fair
Does anyone find it ironically funny that the R-T.R. is better against mini-sentries than regular ones even though it's whole thing is de-upgrading sentries?
13:00 don't worry I am still watching.
Stock does 18% more damage than non-crit Diamondback.
IMO, spycicle is the worst knife. Pyroes can still really easily track you. Second worst is the yer. I hate saying it, but one comm and your disguise is blown. Its only good for stainstabs really, and the big earner does that better
The Letranger, the Cloak and Dagger, and the spycicle.
The best loadout for me!
My personal favorite most of the time is the Kunai + either the dead ringer or the cloak and dagger. If I use the cloak and dagger, I use the L'tranger, and if I use the dead ringer I usually use the stock pistol.
I like the red tape because an engine can usually repeat sapper damage if they remove it fast. But losing a level on a sentry or a dispenser right before a push can really affect it.
I personally enjoy using the Ambassador, since it forces me to be good with aiming. Helps me actually get better at the game.
niko aint a furry its only the hat lol
@@badqualityhiman-qw9gl ...Okay? I don't care-
nice u replied fast but its just a fun fact chill
not that deep
@@badqualityhiman-qw9gl I am chill, lol.
Ambassador pretty good actually, but endgy kids a bit ruined opinion on it.
My preferred Spy loadout: none, because I don't ever play Spy 😈 I already have enough anxiety when I play and plus, there's usually already four spies anyway.
Fr
My heart always pounds when I'm behind people and I usually fail to get anything done lol
Waek saus
Same lol
If I ever pick Spy I usually just
A: "oh god what if I mess up and disappoint my team" *switches off Spy*
Or
B: *goes Gun Spy mode and trolls*
@@ItsMeLarky gotta rmb if everyone's shit at spy, you're most likely never gonna be complained at by your team, seeing that nobody has the guts to pull it off except you
Everyones too busy playing soldier or pyro and holding down m1...
“Worth his weight in croissants”
Well, those are pastries are quite light and airy…
Personally I use the ap-sap, the clock and dager, diamond back, and the big earner
What if spy had a watch where you could pass through enemies, and fall damage increases your cloak, but the downside is you can't backstab until like 10 seconds after you decloak.
it would be pretty underpowered, passing trough enemies and refilling clock by self damage would be broken tbh, but having to wait 10 seconds is too much considering how often you decloak, get a backstab, run and cloak again in often 5 to 7 seconds as spy
Yeah I didn't put much thought into it.
The Diamondback is obv OP, it needs a tweak, like other weapons.
Spy is my least played class,could someone explain how the spycicle isn't better than stock? Unless your objective is to just kill the medic and then die, isn't it better to be alive without a knife for a few seconds than burnt to a crisp?
9:49 the man behind your teleporter.. kekekk
ngl I really like being usefull and upset some fat men
Ambassador isn't even bad, definitely not c tier
When I saw this video, I immediately went “Kunai, dead ringer, diamond back. Lock in” 😂
Actually its either The Cloak and Dagger or Inivis Watch(Dont use the dead ringer it drains too fast and youll need the L’Etranger if you want some cloak duration and also it has loud decloak)
8:02 omg does a spy have a third hand?!
your eternal reward, letrange, cloak dagger and Red tape recorder for the ultimate sneak set
No way is the enforcer in the same rank as the Ambassador
The enforcer can be quite useful for wrangled sentries if you can't get into the nest, and the slower fire speed is only a drawback in close range since it helps with the after shot accuracy penalty
situational also just stab and sap
Thanks for the video, as a spy main I thought it was really entertaining.
Also Amby < Stock Cause if you simply body shot with the Amby you do significantly less damage compared to stock, and the point at which you do more damage than stock requires you hit Multiple headshots in a row which is much more effort than what it's worth.Basically Stock is better because it does more damage while requiring less aim.
Kunai
LE'tranger
Sapper
I don't use my gun much except for finishing off wounded targets and I find the extra cloak time on the LE'tranger to be very valuable when using a knife like the Kunai which require you to play more passively until you get your first stab. If you're familiar with maps and the ammo pack locations, you can essentially be cloaked the entire time and be able to pick spots while still having mobility. This of course for pubs, otherwise I think your default loadout is superior for more competitive play.
I think it’s spelled as « L’Étranger ».
Me and my boyfriend call the Cloak and Dagger the “Cloak and Do Nothing” but it’s even funnier as it’s my most uses watch
The ambassador is up in b tier. The diamondback is a dumber and better version of it,
However, the ambassadors theoretically higher dps of the stock I’d say doesn’t matter all to much.
Because in the end, spy isn’t nor capable of being a dps class, he is a pick class who wants to minimize the time they are noticeable, so having those meatier revolver shots to more often kill in one or at most two shots, instead of a 2,3 and at absolute most in actual gameplay 4. I’d say this makes it better for a lot of situations where you need a slightly safer pick. The Crit fall of in these situations where you are in flanks already isn’t much of a factor,. In these situations it can even outdo the the diamondback, or just equal because these are times where you couldn’t get a stab.
In other words, while technically stock can output more damage, if you have half decent aim the ambassador expands what the spy can accomplish, and it’s weaknesses can be a small problem, but are less common for spy’s general role. Which I would say makes it up with the stack and letranje
Also I think the Cloak and Dagger is the best watch personally, with the enforcer you can kind of play spy gun spy, hide in an area disguising and messing with your opponent but with the forcefully slower gunfight which you choose because you can hide and move anywhere, fun and satisfying
You should keep making these, they're great.
I do enjoy Your Eternal Reward with Diamondback and Dead Ringer.
I disguise as someone before I leave spawn, start stabbing people, and if I think I’m about to get sussed out, I activate dead ringer and look for heals before doing it all again. Diamondback is just there for when I need to shoot, as that way I will usually have crits built up.
I don't agree about big earner. -25 hp is not so much comparing to such a strong bonuses. Actually in most of cases it's no matter how much HP spy has. If he was spotted - he escapes or dies. But with this bonus you could have more chances to escape. So I don't care about -25 hp, this knife is much better than stock.
As a guy who plays spy for 200h the best loadout is L'Etranger ,knife ,stock watch or clock&dagger
The one thing I do like about the Dead Ringer is that it forces the Spy to learn how to be stealthy without being invisible, whether that is choosing good routes to take to get behind the enemy, or acting as an enemy better.
That is a good point and one that I don't see brought up very often. In general, the Dead Ringer just prioritizes different aspects of playing the spy. I've never particularly liked the argument that it's a braindead weapon that gives a broken benefit with no effort, because well... if someone is so ineffective at spy that they're not even going to sell the fake death, or pull it out at the first sign of trouble, what are the odds they're going to do something productive with their get-out-of-jail card? But people that are actually good at using the Dead Ringer, well, they've mastered figuring out how an enemy would act in that precise situation, they can read a fight well enough to fake the death when it would be believable, and their knowledge of the map is pretty crucial to both effectively choosing engagement routes, and escape routes. Those are not trivial things to learn.
I agree 200%
I'd say that Spy doesn't really have a definitely best loadout, it just comes down to personal preference. Excluding the Enforcer and the Red-Tape Recorder, every single unlock has its fans and, especially between the 3 top knifes and the 4 top revolvers, it comes down to personal preference. Even between the watches, which is pretty one sided for stock, each one has its fans. That's part of the reason why Spy is so fun to play.
(Diamondback, Sapper, Knife, C&D)
My favorite loadout is The cloak and Dagger, Spycicle, and L'etranger. I personally like a more passive play style, and this suits it quite well.
l'etranger
also r/imnotlikeothergirls
I think it’s hilarious how he never actually brings up the downside of the spycicle.
Spy Mains: Wait you are telling me you genuinely believe the Spycicle is a good weapon?
Me: Yes and I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
the Ambassador isn't bad at all, a good spy with the Ambassador can still be really infuriating, I think that you should watch Fish on a stick's video on the Ambassador
Its so funny, i only use the Spicicle because of the sound it makes when you stab and the fact players turn into ice statues
The best spy loadout is found on the class selection screen where you can pick better spy (aka sniper)
the day i found out the spy-cicle does the melting sound to the enemy team as well was the day i stopped using it. There's no point to trying to try to outsmart a pyro via disguising and then not getting burned by him because the pyro still hears the spy-cicle melt. The only use for it is gunspy. The big earner and the kunai are both valid sidegrades to stock, i prefer both to stock personally but that's because I enjoy the high highs of backstabs. My two builds are diamondback,kunai and stock invis, and l'etranger, big earner and dead ringer. I don't use the amby because holy shit aiming with it is pain, and sometimes i use the stock revolver for shits and giggles. The YER is by far the worst knife, simply because of the cloak drain. It was better when it didn't have the cloak penalty and you couldn't disguise with it.
This is the first time I saw someone put the diamondback in s tier because everybody else complained about it being to op
Wow, for once I see a fricken crazy good guy at spy who DOESN'T "facestab".