For those who've never heard the term, a road switcher is a locomotive that is designed for both switching/shunting and for the actual hauling of the trains to their destinations. It's basically synonymous with the term "hood unit". Pretty much all freight locomotives in North America are road switchers.
I've always pondered if larger mainline hood units (AC44CW, SD70, etc) really fit with that as they're so far away from switchers - they evolved out of such though. The NW5 was an early road switcher, when the concept you describe was first being developed, it and the Alco RS series lead to the "Road switcher" and later huge hood units becoming the primary freight locomotives in the US.
@@quillmaurer6563 Honestly, most of the hood units found can be used for any duty, if it wasn't for their length & axle weight. The term 'Road switcher' isn't very well defined when it comes to mainline (Locomotives designed exclusively for mainline train haulage) and the road switchers themselves. Sure, you have 4 axle road switchers (EMG GP35 for example), then you have the bigger general purpose units (SD45s) and then yeah, the SD70s which are generally too heavy and unweildy to perform shunting duties beyond mainline yards which normally have their own switchers anyway. The term Road Switcher was designed at a time where railroads didn't take unit loads, but instead take much more manefests, which involved a lot of switching to smaller customers rather than suppling to larger consumers which I assume is what many road switchers were designed to do, but were powerful enough to haul mainline trains.
@@Ben31337l Yeah, exactly - the "road switcher" term was used as a term for the hood unit body style, which initially was used for this role while car body units were used as mainline locomotives, so the terms were effectively synonomous. But as hood units grew into huge mainline locomotives not sensible for yard service I don't think it's a suitable term for them.
@@quillmaurer6563 I wopuld expand that to large hood units which are unsuitable for yard or branchline (otherwise known as Class 3 railroad) service. It would be nice to reclassify them as hood or cowl unit types as those seem to be the current trends within america as they are terms which, instead of being duty bound, refer more to their distinctive shape.
@@Ben31337l That's how I've always thought of it - "hood unit" refers to the body style, while "road switcher" is a type of locomotive (pretty universally a hood unit, at least in the US) that serves certain purposes - typically branch line service that involves picking up/dropping off cars at industries along the siding. Thus "road switcher" is a subset of "hood unit," all road switchers (as far as I know) are hood units, but not all hood units are road switchers. Really this terminology of calling SD70s "road switchers" is because of tradition and evolution, using terms for what it evolved out of. Sort of like "dialing" a phone, or for that matter calling said multi-use gadgets "phones" even though for many people that's not their primary purpose. I typically refer to things like SD70s or AC44CWs as "hood units" rather than "Road switcher." I could use either term for a GP38-2. Actually the SD70 or AC44CW I'd probably just refer to as a "freight locomotive," as the past half-century basically all freight locomotives have been that style so there's no need to refer to the body style, that's the default. The only car-body or cowl units in the Americas are passenger locomotives. Same goes for six-axle, to me "freight locomotive" is a six-axle hood unit, a "road switcher" is a four-axle hood unit, and a passenger locomotive is a four-axle (I don't believe any six-axle locomotives have been widespread in passenger service in many decades) car-body or cowl unit.
a locomotive built by british rail. part of a contract signed by british rail. as part of their modernization plan. and it failed miserably. take a shot for how many of those he's featured in these videos.
Also with the Pacers, they were heavily used on the local services to Manchester Victoria so most of the time, were packed. You couldn't even get to sit on the horrible bus benches, and had to spend most of the journey bouncing around in someone's sweaty armpit.
My favorite was Bangor to Chester with a Pacer coupled to a 156 (it started in Holyhead). Of course, the 156 was locked so we could only ride in the pacer.
Knutsford to Manchester Piccadilly and vice versa was pretty, pretty bad, given the hourly service and the large number of a) Knutsford Highschool pupils travelling Altrincham-Knutsford and b) Barclays Bank employees and contractors travelling to Knutsford from Manchester, Stockport and Altrincham. The only small mercy was that in the depths of winter you were packed in closely enough to not feel the drafts through the flappy doors, and sometimes still needed at least one window open, even with snow on the ground. There was also the shuffle of those standing in the door area needing to allow the guard to move between the rear cab and the control panel above the door, since the cab lacked its own external door.
And some 142s found their way into Preservation! 😁 I loved working on 142s and Pacers.... Nothing you couldn't fix with gaffer tape, newspaper, WD40, or a heafty kick with a steel toe cap boot. And in terms of visibility for on-train dispatching, they were ace.
@@haroldhorseposture9435 luckily no, but from a guard's perspective they were great 😁 I knew some drivers that like them too. I hated 158s.... Loved 150/1s cos of the crew slam doors and droplights.
@@MysticMindAnalysis One word; Hateful . Very likey the worst cab ever inflicted upon us . Although all the other 14x and 15x sets werejust as vile in one respect or another. The 142 is 'famed' for being the originator of back injury complaints , unheard of up to this point . Definitely not designed for humans . Soe weird , alien life-form , maybe , but regular folks ? No way . Poor seat cramped driving position, extremely bad relationship 'twixt seat , DSD , armrests , etc. These latter were bolted to the bulkhead behind the seat , fixed at a height too low to be any use even with seat at it's lowest , and when the seat was raised the armrests stayed down there.. Piss-poor heating when on the move , you could feel some heat when stationary , but this tended to be directed up the inside of the windshield , despite any setting of the controls to direct it down to your feet .Really useful , as they had reasonable heated windshields for defrost purposes anyway. Strange thing is, when running at speed thru' close-fitting tunnels, warm air did issue forth to your feet , suggesing bad aerodynamic design of the cab front in relation to air intake location and interior ducting. And as for the less than useless bicycle cable brakes......it's a wonder still that nobody died as a result of them . Oh, and don't mention collision resistance.
I commuted daily on 142/144 Pacers into Leeds. On continuously welded track, they were fine. Clocked one late night run at 82 mph too so they didn't hang around.. They were a bus on a rail line doing the same job & doing it quite well, keeping a good service density at a low price. West Yorkshire passenger numbers climbed continuously during their reign, halted only by COVID. They were a bit rough on jointed track but not much of that about now
The first time I rode in a Class 142 I was a bit depressed as I saw it approaching because of what I had read about them. Within a few miles I was really impressed by the speed, acceleration and good view from the windows.
The Pacers were basically a bus body (a Leyland National to be exact) on a railway wagon chassis. They were basically the railway version of Frankenstein's monster with the intention to be as cheap as possible and to replace the remaining 1st-generation DMUs that replaced steam back in the 1960s. Even today, they're now mostly a meme being the "replacement bus service" but their reliability was no scoffing at. You could say that they're just about or maybe more reliable than the ones come to replace them.
Hmmm the 195's are new. and new means alot of issues. Compared to the what should of been replacement at the time aka the 150-158 sprinters that are just way better.
The pacers were *supposed* to be a stopgap DMU, but were just never replaced. Thankfully, Northern Rail has been able to obtain more cascaded class 150s and 156s, in addition to the new, much nicer Class 195s. It used to be a gamble as to whether you'd get a pacer on the stopping services between Manchester and Liverpool, and in fairness, they did have their fans. But it took FAR too long to replace their horrid bus bench seating which I swear was made for dwarves.
On Taiwan's east coast line you can still find old Korean EMUs with bus bench seating. Because the population is much smaller than the densely populated west coast, travelling on them is a much nicer experience. However, it wasn't all that long ago they were still being used on the west coast and in the northern parts, say Taipei to Xinzhu. These were almost always jam-packed, especially on weekends. During summertime, when you're waiting on the platform, the temperature is usually in the mid to high 30s (degress centigrade) and often with high humidity. When the trian arrives, you can see just how packed it is. Then the doors open and people try to get off and get on at the same time. You are also met by a blast of very cold air from the train's air conditioning. And then it's off to the next station, usually not too far. At times you need to wait at smaller stations for an extended period as faster or express trains pass through. The newer EMUs on the west coast line are now much nicer with comfortable seating and an overall much nicer experience.
Hmmm. The Sprinters are way better. Just when the pacers were decommisioned my line has been getting 158 express sprinters now ontop of the 156's. now despite the sprinters being just as old they are way better in every single way.
Yeah, we've got rid of the Pacers, but have Class 150s-156s instead - Wow! They are just as old as the Pacers, and only marginally less uncomfortable. Any old crap will do for the residents of northern England.....
@Notifications are turned off! NO 195s here in the NE! Let alone any electric stock. The best we have are 158s which are 'only' 25 years old and date back to BR days!
The Pacer's were the triumph of "Good Enough" over "Perfection". They were cheap enough to build, maintain, and run, that they kept many miles of otherwise unprofitable track viable. Okay, they kinda sucked, but when the other option was no train & the line being shut down, well, sometimes you just have to "embrace the suck" (as the saying goes), as the alternative is even worse. They served a purpose, and they fulfilled that purpose well.
There are actually 3 B23-7s in and around the area that I work they are operated by RJ Corman Railroad and there are just alot of engines on this list that are still operating with RJ Corman and they are mostly former big name railroads engines
I used to deliver cars all over the UK; long train journeys were de rigeur when repositioning or travelling home. Once rode a 142 (Pacer, Skipper, Nodding Donkey) on a 3hr, all-stations trip. On the original steel-framed, barely-padded, unbolstered bus seats. Some of it on jointed track. Walked on; staggered off. Great fun uphill in leaf-fall season though; when the Cummins speeded-up but the lineside trees didn’t, you knew another epic slip was underway. Excellent example of the beancounters triumphing over engineering, common sense and - at times - physics. RIP Donkeys; you got me home but Jesus was it a mission every time
GE also had a weird thing for long-hood forwards locomotives around the time of the Dash-8s. These were locomotives that instead of having just one engineer stand, either had it flipped on the other side of the cab, or had TWO of them. There was barely any visibility for in front of you in the cab. This ended up being such a problem, even train simulator gave you an extra camera option on the DLC for one of them for first person operations.
The 142 also gave the best views out the windows we ever got. They rode very well on welded rails but didn't enjoy sectioned track. They've been replaced by equally old Class 150 and 156s on my local line, which they ran alongside anyway.
The one thing I remember about the Pacers was travelling on them, at speed, The top speed was 70MPH, on jointed track. Depending on the rail length they would start bouncing like heck.
Thats the cleanest and most comfortable looking pacer interior ive ever seen. Usually they had the old bus style seating with the hard metal grab bar at waist height. Another pacer fact for you is the breaks used to catch fire often.
I used to get a 142 every day and there where not that uncomfortable at all. They where super reliable too, I know a lot of drivers and engineers that loved them and where very sad to see them go.
HITD you forgot something about the C39-8. One of the major reasons why crews hated the C39’s was because of the cab , the cabs were prone to rattling and the view from the main window 🪟 looked much lower to the ground than it actually was, making rides extremely uncomfortable 😣, this also plagued the B30-7 and EMD GP60M given to the Santa Fe.
I'm actually kind of surprised that Santa Fe ordered the GP60M and B40-8, both of which were highly criticized for their not-so-great ride quality even on the extremely well-maintain Santa Fe trackage between Chicago and Los Angeles.
C32-8. Low height cab and some other ergonomic annoyances. One crew remarked they were constantly chasing grounds. Apparently it didn’t have a reliable electrical system. Thanks, General Electric.
Yeah the early Dash 8 series wasn’t very good, but the Dash 8 series finally received some love ❤️ with the introduction of the B40-8W and all the other wide cab dash 8’s which later created the Famous Dash 9 series.
Love the videos keep up the good work. I have one for your lists of terrible locomotives. Check out the GMDH-3 which still exists at the Southern Michigan Railroad Society where I volunteer. This thing is a real piece of work and never sold a single loco.
The main reason behind the Class 142's being hated was down to some simple factors, they were built cheaply as the body of the trains were bus bodies taken from a Layland National bus of the same era, and their seats were basic because again they were bus seats (Notice a pattern @History in the Dark?) and in terms for their rough riding or "nodding" as they were known to do whilst travelling at 60mph this was due to only having a single bogie on each end of the carriage whilst more conventional sprinters of the era such as the Class 150 had twin bogies. In their later years such as in the West Country, they did suffer from a lot of electrical problems and often had to be paired with either Class 150s, 153's or even their sister class 143's due to their reliability problems shortly before they were removed from the West Country, fans did want to do a rail-tour with them from Exeter to Waterloo but due to the reliability, they were too much of a liability potentially braking down on the Southern line linking them to the West Country and blocking the whole section so they decided to run them over previously axed lines that still served the logging trains.
Regarding #2, there is a video here on RUclips somewhere in which someone did a weathering job on an N-scale Dash 8 to make it look like it had suffered a turbocharger fire.
Got to drive a Class 142 on TSW4 as part of their Blackpool Branch DLC. These things rock so much at high speeds they make my local city buses feel like a stretch limousine.
GE is America's British Rail, lol. My cousin Roland was a conductor for CSX. I'm pretty sure the engine he used was a Dash 8 and it would end up forcing him to retire when some failure caused either carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide to flood the cab, knocking the engineer unconscious and nearly getting to Roland who pulled the emergency brake to stop the train.
Many a time I was stood on a platform in the north of England, only to utter the words *"fucking pacers"* when I saw one of those shitboxes coming down the line.
I was able to ride on a Conrail B36-7 as a kid and i loved it, Hopefully i can ride a locomotive again as my dad worked for conrail (now csx) and thats how i was able to ride a b36-7.
Coupled with the required costs in modifications after early teething issues, the Pacers were never economical at all and due to the longevity of components concerned, they proved to be more expensive to maintain than a Sprinter type unit. They didn't even save branch lines. It was government subsidies.
I have read that they had better fuel economy as single units than anything before the Perry People Movers railcars came out, which would also explain why they are popular with heritage railways.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis Due to their wagon wheel axleload, the Pacers generated more wear on the track. This means they were more expensive to run than a Sprinter type unit.
The first two remind of “Deckless” Steam Locomotives. Like the camelbacks, crews hated this breed of steam locomotives because of the lack of room available in the cab. Famous examples are N&W 425 and ET&WNC 12 (Tweetsie), the first steam locomotive I rode behind. I hate to talk down on her since she has a special place in my heart being a special part of my childhood, but yeah Tweetsie would fit in the category of steam engines that crews hated.
2 of the examples I can confirm by personal experience. First the GE cabs of the Dash 7 models, I tried to cab one in Estonia, but being 6'1" tall and 24" across the shoulders it was nearly impossible to enter the cab, never had that issue on any British locomotive which have a much smaller loading gauge! Second, the ride on 142 or any Pacer for that IS horrible, especially in the 90s when there were still many lines without long section welded track. It was unadvisable to try to eat or drink on these, as it would end in your lap instead of in your mouth, the stickers on the doors were there with a reason!
Best skip gently over the fact that, contrary as we are, British railway preservation gleefully adopted almost all of one of the Pacer varieties and a huge number of the others in order to ensure that we can continue to choose to travel on the trains that we hated when we had to use them!
I've rode in the cab in the Conrail b23s invited as a rail fan and they in the ride wasn't that horrible but a lot of the train crew said their opinions the ones that like them enjoyed them the ones that hated them well that's a different story
General Electrics i ran always seemed to have lugs or sharp corners on the hoods that always seemed to catch my shirts, jackets and sometimes pants {beltloops} ripping them to shreds.
So many complained about for uncomfortable seats - that's a big problem for long journeys or working in them, but couldn't that be fixed? I'd think of any issue with a locomotive, swapping out the seats shouldn't be a big deal. Much easier than welding new seats into my car was. Likewise, the main complaint about the EMD NW5 was the lack of railings, couldn't they have added them? It even looks like the one in photo at 4:16 has full railings, as does the one at 4:34. Too small doors and poor ride would be much harder to fix.
I used to work for csx and we had 4 of these locomotives in a consist along with 3 gp38-2s. And I will tell you this, we had one up front and three in the middle of the go38s. I can tell you this. These locomotives were hard pulling locomotives. And they didn't give me any trouble! I operated them from dothan,Dothan, to Montgomery, al.and I liked them.they were despised by my other crewmen, but I didn't have any problems with them.i had no complaints about them.
Only _one_ British Rail entry...? I admire your restraint, sir, I expected it to be nothing but, given the attitude of the channel (well-earned or otherwise)...!
C39-8 could pull they did the job. This was in the later years of conrail. Ralph we can't give a last name but he said they could pull a train and do the job
If you do another list, i'd recommend adding the GE Dash 8 40CM These were canadian cowl units built for CN and BC Rail and suffered similar problems with the 3 GE's on this list. Crews hated them because they were an uncomfortable ride. The prime-mover and the fuel tanks caused their body to dip down, the computer technology was terrible, fumes would leak into the cab and the short-wheelbase has caused crews to hate these units. Even with rebuilds, their efficiency has caused them to take longer to gear up. Currently, these units are being retired, with some being stored on CN.
Their passenger units were always turds. None of them were particularly reliable, even the ones the EL had in the 60's. The Long Island's EMDs weren't very glamorous or powerful, but they tended to get the job done, as opposed (sister operation) Metro-North's GEs. I think the only way those things could go fast is if you threw one off a cliff. And even then, they'd take their merry time.
Early G.E. locomotives (U25 onwards, I’m not sure exactly when they stopped doing this) had 16 throttle notches, instead of the usual 8 on EMD and Alco locomotives. These were organized so that two equaled a single notch on other locomotives for MU purposes. The problem was that they would only increment and decrement one notch at a time, whereas other locomotives from EMD and Alco could be shoved right into notch 8. This was extremely annoying, doubly so if they were the lead unit in a mixed consist (which is another reason besides comfort that crews would try to avoid using them as the lead unit in a mixed consist).
I ran all these GE's 12 years freight and 24 years passenger service. The GE's were KC 109 controllers. They had half notches, so a total of 16 notches, with a foot long throttle handle.
Oh god. THE GOD DANG PACERS DANG IT! I have been on those things idk how many times and oh boy their ride quallity was about as good as the noise level from the brakes. Poor. I live on the Durham coast line that is basically a diversion route for the ECML and the tees valley area in general has always had these things throughout the 2000's. Now for smaller branchlines ok they are reasonable but for intercity regional that they were put on quite a bit they were inadiquet by capacity and ride quallity. Yet again coming back to the durham coast line i live on i still remember seeing a 2 car pacer pulling up and the thing being litterally packed when heading north to newcastle. Every time at 10:02 it was a pacer without fail. Despite Northern had the ability to swap it out for a class 156 sprinter that was bigger and better in general. I despite them things but they are iconic at this rate....
Was expecting to see the SR Q1 on here. Was quite successful and they lasted longer than they were designed for, but they were considered one of the ugliest steam trains ever seen in the uk
tbh I kinda liked the C39-8s, yeah they never really preformed that well but the shorter cab kinda won me over, funny enough that's one of the most biggest nags of them
The C39-8 is a big workhorse for the Norfolk Southern and I think I love the C39-8 and I specifically love the way it looks they are the only C39-8 locomotive series but all of them are operating today.
The Victorian Railways (VR) built wooden electric trains (Taits) in the 1920s and ran them for sixty years yes six decades. The VR was owned by the state government and they were starved of cash from the 1960s. They were withdrawn in the 1980s with the reason they used asbestos brakes. I think that was just an excuse. Their eventual replacement was a long and drawn out process and I felt that if the VR weren’t abolished then the Taits would still be in operation now. Someone said the Taits were the oldest rolling stock in current revenue service in the world. What rail system operated sixty year old carriages, even for freight. They had no heating and rattled and not popular, they were called red rattlers. They replaced an earlier set with outward opening doors called dog boxes (or doggies) which were phased out by 1972.
Can you please talk about the GE U23B locomotives next??? I want to know more about the GE U23B. The U23B is my most favorite GE diesel electric locomotive.
Last photo of the class 142 was Darlington. Which would mean it's the Darlington to Saltburn line. I've riden that line on the class 142 and didn't mind the bumpy ride.
Honestly yeah, i live in Saltburn so would get these regularly, i was actually sad when Northern stopped using them and replaced them with the 156 and occasional 158
Idk why us in tees valley really got them hard. Though the influx of 156 and 158 sprinters means we don't really have to worry about them anymore. I personally love sprinters just something about them thats so good.
If you do another episode on weirdest trains please consider the British Rail (I'm sorry) class 139 it's a very interesting design and one of my favourite wierd locos.
The faulty Turbos are commonly on any GE locomotives. GE made the first mainline Electric locomotive in the US. S-Motor, T-Motor, and EP2 shares the same Bi-Polar electrical systems.
Hey Darkness, cut BR some slack, man. They've tested lots of stuff, doing the right thing to see what worked and what didn't. If anything, BR's huge slew of engines they decided weren't worth it is a sign of good judgement to me; they just kept trying and eventually found things that worked.
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For those who've never heard the term, a road switcher is a locomotive that is designed for both switching/shunting and for the actual hauling of the trains to their destinations. It's basically synonymous with the term "hood unit". Pretty much all freight locomotives in North America are road switchers.
I've always pondered if larger mainline hood units (AC44CW, SD70, etc) really fit with that as they're so far away from switchers - they evolved out of such though. The NW5 was an early road switcher, when the concept you describe was first being developed, it and the Alco RS series lead to the "Road switcher" and later huge hood units becoming the primary freight locomotives in the US.
@@quillmaurer6563 Honestly, most of the hood units found can be used for any duty, if it wasn't for their length & axle weight.
The term 'Road switcher' isn't very well defined when it comes to mainline (Locomotives designed exclusively for mainline train haulage) and the road switchers themselves.
Sure, you have 4 axle road switchers (EMG GP35 for example), then you have the bigger general purpose units (SD45s) and then yeah, the SD70s which are generally too heavy and unweildy to perform shunting duties beyond mainline yards which normally have their own switchers anyway.
The term Road Switcher was designed at a time where railroads didn't take unit loads, but instead take much more manefests, which involved a lot of switching to smaller customers rather than suppling to larger consumers which I assume is what many road switchers were designed to do, but were powerful enough to haul mainline trains.
@@Ben31337l Yeah, exactly - the "road switcher" term was used as a term for the hood unit body style, which initially was used for this role while car body units were used as mainline locomotives, so the terms were effectively synonomous. But as hood units grew into huge mainline locomotives not sensible for yard service I don't think it's a suitable term for them.
@@quillmaurer6563 I wopuld expand that to large hood units which are unsuitable for yard or branchline (otherwise known as Class 3 railroad) service.
It would be nice to reclassify them as hood or cowl unit types as those seem to be the current trends within america as they are terms which, instead of being duty bound, refer more to their distinctive shape.
@@Ben31337l That's how I've always thought of it - "hood unit" refers to the body style, while "road switcher" is a type of locomotive (pretty universally a hood unit, at least in the US) that serves certain purposes - typically branch line service that involves picking up/dropping off cars at industries along the siding. Thus "road switcher" is a subset of "hood unit," all road switchers (as far as I know) are hood units, but not all hood units are road switchers.
Really this terminology of calling SD70s "road switchers" is because of tradition and evolution, using terms for what it evolved out of. Sort of like "dialing" a phone, or for that matter calling said multi-use gadgets "phones" even though for many people that's not their primary purpose.
I typically refer to things like SD70s or AC44CWs as "hood units" rather than "Road switcher." I could use either term for a GP38-2. Actually the SD70 or AC44CW I'd probably just refer to as a "freight locomotive," as the past half-century basically all freight locomotives have been that style so there's no need to refer to the body style, that's the default. The only car-body or cowl units in the Americas are passenger locomotives. Same goes for six-axle, to me "freight locomotive" is a six-axle hood unit, a "road switcher" is a four-axle hood unit, and a passenger locomotive is a four-axle (I don't believe any six-axle locomotives have been widespread in passenger service in many decades) car-body or cowl unit.
GE: *make locomotives, which hated by everyone*
British rail: finally, a worthy opponent. Our fight will be legendary.
a locomotive built by british rail. part of a contract signed by british rail. as part of their modernization plan. and it failed miserably. take a shot for how many of those he's featured in these videos.
Agreed!
Also with the Pacers, they were heavily used on the local services to Manchester Victoria so most of the time, were packed. You couldn't even get to sit on the horrible bus benches, and had to spend most of the journey bouncing around in someone's sweaty armpit.
My favorite was Bangor to Chester with a Pacer coupled to a 156 (it started in Holyhead). Of course, the 156 was locked so we could only ride in the pacer.
Knutsford to Manchester Piccadilly and vice versa was pretty, pretty bad, given the hourly service and the large number of a) Knutsford Highschool pupils travelling Altrincham-Knutsford and b) Barclays Bank employees and contractors travelling to Knutsford from Manchester, Stockport and Altrincham. The only small mercy was that in the depths of winter you were packed in closely enough to not feel the drafts through the flappy doors, and sometimes still needed at least one window open, even with snow on the ground.
There was also the shuffle of those standing in the door area needing to allow the guard to move between the rear cab and the control panel above the door, since the cab lacked its own external door.
And some 142s found their way into Preservation! 😁 I loved working on 142s and Pacers.... Nothing you couldn't fix with gaffer tape, newspaper, WD40, or a heafty kick with a steel toe cap boot. And in terms of visibility for on-train dispatching, they were ace.
Sometimes, simpler is better.
You obviously didn't have to drive the bastard things........
@@haroldhorseposture9435 luckily no, but from a guard's perspective they were great 😁 I knew some drivers that like them too. I hated 158s.... Loved 150/1s cos of the crew slam doors and droplights.
@@haroldhorseposture9435 What were they like to drive?
@@MysticMindAnalysis One word; Hateful . Very likey the worst cab ever inflicted upon us . Although all the other 14x and 15x sets werejust as vile in one respect or another. The 142 is 'famed' for being the originator of back injury complaints , unheard of up to this point . Definitely not designed for humans . Soe weird , alien life-form , maybe , but regular folks ? No way . Poor seat cramped driving position, extremely bad relationship 'twixt seat , DSD , armrests , etc. These latter were bolted to the bulkhead behind the seat , fixed at a height too low to be any use even with seat at it's lowest , and when the seat was raised the armrests stayed down there.. Piss-poor heating when on the move , you could feel some heat when stationary , but this tended to be directed up the inside of the windshield , despite any setting of the controls to direct it down to your feet .Really useful , as they had reasonable heated windshields for defrost purposes anyway. Strange thing is, when running at speed thru' close-fitting tunnels, warm air did issue forth to your feet , suggesing bad aerodynamic design of the cab front in relation to air intake location and interior ducting. And as for the less than useless bicycle cable brakes......it's a wonder still that nobody died as a result of them . Oh, and don't mention collision resistance.
I commuted daily on 142/144 Pacers into Leeds. On continuously welded track, they were fine. Clocked one late night run at 82 mph too so they didn't hang around.. They were a bus on a rail line doing the same job & doing it quite well, keeping a good service density at a low price. West Yorkshire passenger numbers climbed continuously during their reign, halted only by COVID. They were a bit rough on jointed track but not much of that about now
They were good and did their duty. Some places you knew by the sound that it was a pacer before you could see it
The first time I rode in a Class 142 I was a bit depressed as I saw it approaching because of what I had read about them. Within a few miles I was really impressed by the speed, acceleration and good view from the windows.
The Pacers were basically a bus body (a Leyland National to be exact) on a railway wagon chassis. They were basically the railway version of Frankenstein's monster with the intention to be as cheap as possible and to replace the remaining 1st-generation DMUs that replaced steam back in the 1960s. Even today, they're now mostly a meme being the "replacement bus service" but their reliability was no scoffing at. You could say that they're just about or maybe more reliable than the ones come to replace them.
Hmmm the 195's are new.
and new means alot of issues.
Compared to the what should of been replacement at the time aka the 150-158 sprinters that are just way better.
Making A horrible Bus into a Pacer DMU train is 1 OF THE BADDEST REASONS I HATE THE CLASS 142🚈🤬😤🚍
The pacers were *supposed* to be a stopgap DMU, but were just never replaced. Thankfully, Northern Rail has been able to obtain more cascaded class 150s and 156s, in addition to the new, much nicer Class 195s. It used to be a gamble as to whether you'd get a pacer on the stopping services between Manchester and Liverpool, and in fairness, they did have their fans. But it took FAR too long to replace their horrid bus bench seating which I swear was made for dwarves.
On Taiwan's east coast line you can still find old Korean EMUs with bus bench seating. Because the population is much smaller than the densely populated west coast, travelling on them is a much nicer experience.
However, it wasn't all that long ago they were still being used on the west coast and in the northern parts, say Taipei to Xinzhu. These were almost always jam-packed, especially on weekends. During summertime, when you're waiting on the platform, the temperature is usually in the mid to high 30s (degress centigrade) and often with high humidity. When the trian arrives, you can see just how packed it is. Then the doors open and people try to get off and get on at the same time. You are also met by a blast of very cold air from the train's air conditioning. And then it's off to the next station, usually not too far. At times you need to wait at smaller stations for an extended period as faster or express trains pass through. The newer EMUs on the west coast line are now much nicer with comfortable seating and an overall much nicer experience.
Hmmm.
The Sprinters are way better.
Just when the pacers were decommisioned my line has been getting 158 express sprinters now ontop of the 156's.
now despite the sprinters being just as old they are way better in every single way.
Yeah, we've got rid of the Pacers, but have Class 150s-156s instead - Wow! They are just as old as the Pacers, and only marginally less uncomfortable. Any old crap will do for the residents of northern England.....
@Notifications are turned off! NO 195s here in the NE! Let alone any electric stock. The best we have are 158s which are 'only' 25 years old and date back to BR days!
@@timbounds7190 No need to be racist
The Pacer's were the triumph of "Good Enough" over "Perfection". They were cheap enough to build, maintain, and run, that they kept many miles of otherwise unprofitable track viable. Okay, they kinda sucked, but when the other option was no train & the line being shut down, well, sometimes you just have to "embrace the suck" (as the saying goes), as the alternative is even worse. They served a purpose, and they fulfilled that purpose well.
There are actually 3 B23-7s in and around the area that I work they are operated by RJ Corman Railroad and there are just alot of engines on this list that are still operating with RJ Corman and they are mostly former big name railroads engines
I used to deliver cars all over the UK; long train journeys were de rigeur when repositioning or travelling home. Once rode a 142 (Pacer, Skipper, Nodding Donkey) on a 3hr, all-stations trip. On the original steel-framed, barely-padded, unbolstered bus seats. Some of it on jointed track. Walked on; staggered off. Great fun uphill in leaf-fall season though; when the Cummins speeded-up but the lineside trees didn’t, you knew another epic slip was underway. Excellent example of the beancounters triumphing over engineering, common sense and - at times - physics. RIP Donkeys; you got me home but Jesus was it a mission every time
GE also had a weird thing for long-hood forwards locomotives around the time of the Dash-8s. These were locomotives that instead of having just one engineer stand, either had it flipped on the other side of the cab, or had TWO of them. There was barely any visibility for in front of you in the cab. This ended up being such a problem, even train simulator gave you an extra camera option on the DLC for one of them for first person operations.
The 142 also gave the best views out the windows we ever got. They rode very well on welded rails but didn't enjoy sectioned track. They've been replaced by equally old Class 150 and 156s on my local line, which they ran alongside anyway.
I used to actually love the Pacers as a kid. Going down an old poorly maintained line in one was like a rollercoaster XD
They are a clean machine and a reliable workhorse I never want to retire them they're too reliable I rely on them.
The one thing I remember about the Pacers was travelling on them, at speed, The top speed was 70MPH, on jointed track. Depending on the rail length they would start bouncing like heck.
Thats the cleanest and most comfortable looking pacer interior ive ever seen. Usually they had the old bus style seating with the hard metal grab bar at waist height.
Another pacer fact for you is the breaks used to catch fire often.
All of these trains are from North America and then the Class 142 Pacer is just staring into our souls...
I'm amazed no BR class 303. The only emu to be made in Scotland
I used to get a 142 every day and there where not that uncomfortable at all.
They where super reliable too, I know a lot of drivers and engineers that loved them and where very sad to see them go.
HITD you forgot something about the C39-8. One of the major reasons why crews hated the C39’s was because of the cab , the cabs were prone to rattling and the view from the main window 🪟 looked much lower to the ground than it actually was, making rides extremely uncomfortable 😣, this also plagued the B30-7 and EMD GP60M given to the Santa Fe.
I'm actually kind of surprised that Santa Fe ordered the GP60M and B40-8, both of which were highly criticized for their not-so-great ride quality even on the extremely well-maintain Santa Fe trackage between Chicago and Los Angeles.
C32-8. Low height cab and some other ergonomic annoyances. One crew remarked they were constantly chasing grounds. Apparently it didn’t have a reliable electrical system. Thanks, General Electric.
Yeah the early Dash 8 series wasn’t very good, but the Dash 8 series finally received some love ❤️ with the introduction of the B40-8W and all the other wide cab dash 8’s which later created the Famous Dash 9 series.
I've seen the c39-8 in person, bit of nostalgia in the blue
Love the videos keep up the good work. I have one for your lists of terrible locomotives. Check out the GMDH-3 which still exists at the Southern Michigan Railroad Society where I volunteer. This thing is a real piece of work and never sold a single loco.
If you ever want to see a C39-8 operating in person, go to Peru! They love them down there, and they even have a Conrail heritage unit!
If you think the seat were bad on the GE B30-7 we’re bad, THE SCHOOL DESKS ARE WORST!!!💀💀💀💀
The main reason behind the Class 142's being hated was down to some simple factors, they were built cheaply as the body of the trains were bus bodies taken from a Layland National bus of the same era, and their seats were basic because again they were bus seats (Notice a pattern @History in the Dark?) and in terms for their rough riding or "nodding" as they were known to do whilst travelling at 60mph this was due to only having a single bogie on each end of the carriage whilst more conventional sprinters of the era such as the Class 150 had twin bogies.
In their later years such as in the West Country, they did suffer from a lot of electrical problems and often had to be paired with either Class 150s, 153's or even their sister class 143's due to their reliability problems shortly before they were removed from the West Country, fans did want to do a rail-tour with them from Exeter to Waterloo but due to the reliability, they were too much of a liability potentially braking down on the Southern line linking them to the West Country and blocking the whole section so they decided to run them over previously axed lines that still served the logging trains.
Regarding #2, there is a video here on RUclips somewhere in which someone did a weathering job on an N-scale Dash 8 to make it look like it had suffered a turbocharger fire.
The C39-8 and PR43C will be on my five successful trains that everyone loves and best trains ever lists.
Got to drive a Class 142 on TSW4 as part of their Blackpool Branch DLC. These things rock so much at high speeds they make my local city buses feel like a stretch limousine.
BR: i was sick today, so I asked my buddy GE to help
GE is America's British Rail, lol.
My cousin Roland was a conductor for CSX. I'm pretty sure the engine he used was a Dash 8 and it would end up forcing him to retire when some failure caused either carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide to flood the cab, knocking the engineer unconscious and nearly getting to Roland who pulled the emergency brake to stop the train.
yo! shoutout to the Twin Ports with the NW5 pic! that's in the Duluth Railroad Museum's lines
The C39-8 and PR43Cs will be on my five successful trains that everyone loves list.
The C39-8 will be on my 5 trains that everyone loves list.
Many a time I was stood on a platform in the north of England, only to utter the words *"fucking pacers"* when I saw one of those shitboxes coming down the line.
I was able to ride on a Conrail B36-7 as a kid and i loved it, Hopefully i can ride a locomotive again as my dad worked for conrail (now csx) and thats how i was able to ride a b36-7.
awesome video, i am British and can comfirm the paccers are very uncomfortable
Ive ridden in a B23-7 very intresting cab but really bad sound issues and everything you said is 110% correct
Coupled with the required costs in modifications after early teething issues, the Pacers were never economical at all and due to the longevity of components concerned, they proved to be more expensive to maintain than a Sprinter type unit. They didn't even save branch lines. It was government subsidies.
I have read that they had better fuel economy as single units than anything before the Perry People Movers railcars came out, which would also explain why they are popular with heritage railways.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis Due to their wagon wheel axleload, the Pacers generated more wear on the track. This means they were more expensive to run than a Sprinter type unit.
Call me crazy, but I deeply miss the C39-8s! I used to see them all the time as a kid!
Saw them as a kid - didn't have to drive them I assume.
@@quillmaurer6563 Nope. I was only 5.
It really shows how up to date these are
The first two remind of “Deckless” Steam Locomotives. Like the camelbacks, crews hated this breed of steam locomotives because of the lack of room available in the cab. Famous examples are N&W 425 and ET&WNC 12 (Tweetsie), the first steam locomotive I rode behind.
I hate to talk down on her since she has a special place in my heart being a special part of my childhood, but yeah Tweetsie would fit in the category of steam engines that crews hated.
And yes, I’m aware that the first two are diesel.
2 of the examples I can confirm by personal experience.
First the GE cabs of the Dash 7 models, I tried to cab one in Estonia, but being 6'1" tall and 24" across the shoulders it was nearly impossible to enter the cab, never had that issue on any British locomotive which have a much smaller loading gauge!
Second, the ride on 142 or any Pacer for that IS horrible, especially in the 90s when there were still many lines without long section welded track.
It was unadvisable to try to eat or drink on these, as it would end in your lap instead of in your mouth, the stickers on the doors were there with a reason!
And that was the last time we saw British Rail.
I love them that goes on the I love the and not hate trains list.
Best skip gently over the fact that, contrary as we are, British railway preservation gleefully adopted almost all of one of the Pacer varieties and a huge number of the others in order to ensure that we can continue to choose to travel on the trains that we hated when we had to use them!
I have ridden on the class 142 they squeak and bump arond
I've rode in the cab in the Conrail b23s invited as a rail fan and they in the ride wasn't that horrible but a lot of the train crew said their opinions the ones that like them enjoyed them the ones that hated them well that's a different story
General Electrics i ran always seemed to have lugs or sharp corners on the hoods that always seemed to catch my shirts, jackets and sometimes pants {beltloops} ripping them to shreds.
So many complained about for uncomfortable seats - that's a big problem for long journeys or working in them, but couldn't that be fixed? I'd think of any issue with a locomotive, swapping out the seats shouldn't be a big deal. Much easier than welding new seats into my car was. Likewise, the main complaint about the EMD NW5 was the lack of railings, couldn't they have added them? It even looks like the one in photo at 4:16 has full railings, as does the one at 4:34. Too small doors and poor ride would be much harder to fix.
I used to work for csx and we had 4 of these locomotives in a consist along with 3 gp38-2s. And I will tell you this, we had one up front and three in the middle of the go38s. I can tell you this. These locomotives were hard pulling locomotives. And they didn't give me any trouble! I operated them from dothan,Dothan, to Montgomery, al.and I liked them.they were despised by my other crewmen, but I didn't have any problems with them.i had no complaints about them.
bring it onnnn also ngl I wanna see a video on the GE U25B, it's actually a nice engine in my opinion
I love the locomotives. I am the first that loves them.
The Voyager should be on this list.
I love the B23-7 and B30-7+C39-8.
I miss the BQ23-7 I think there was only 10 from family lines/ seaboard. I think only 1 survived to CSX paint and was finally scrapped.
Oh God those weird ass cabs though lol
I'm using them in all kinds of service.
7:21 But everyone loves a pacer
Only _one_ British Rail entry...? I admire your restraint, sir, I expected it to be nothing but, given the attitude of the channel (well-earned or otherwise)...!
C39-8 could pull they did the job. This was in the later years of conrail. Ralph we can't give a last name but he said they could pull a train and do the job
Oooo the pacers, back broken but fond memories of those bastards.
This is the most important video of 2022
The FitnessGram™ Pacer Train...
of course the british rail train of today is the bus on rails
the fact they kept it becouse it was cheap and nothing else is insane
If you do another list, i'd recommend adding the GE Dash 8 40CM
These were canadian cowl units built for CN and BC Rail and suffered similar problems with the 3 GE's on this list. Crews hated them because they were an uncomfortable ride. The prime-mover and the fuel tanks caused their body to dip down, the computer technology was terrible, fumes would leak into the cab and the short-wheelbase has caused crews to hate these units. Even with rebuilds, their efficiency has caused them to take longer to gear up. Currently, these units are being retired, with some being stored on CN.
I love the C39-8 and other early Dash 8s that have that hump on them
I can tell you now because I have unfortunately had to board the class 142 quite a few times, EVERYONE HATES THEM!!!!
Is General Electric going to become the next running gag?
A friend of mine has seen NS 8688 at the Altoona shops before.
To think BR had a patent for a flying saucer but developed the pacer trains? Opportunity missed!
As a GE foamer I personally love the ge locomotives listed, but I can see how they can be a nuisance
I went to the Florida railroad museum last year and saw the nw5 there
Hey history in the dark, could you please talk about the grayrigg derailment?
The Baldwin Centipede belongs on this list, as the electricians who had to work on them absolutely hated them.
I get the sense those weren't in service very long, so they weren't "successful but hated," they just sucked.
A small thing about the NW5 one is at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum and is operational.
This feels like General Electric is going to be the second British Rail on the video coming forward
Their passenger units were always turds. None of them were particularly reliable, even the ones the EL had in the 60's. The Long Island's EMDs weren't very glamorous or powerful, but they tended to get the job done, as opposed (sister operation) Metro-North's GEs. I think the only way those things could go fast is if you threw one off a cliff. And even then, they'd take their merry time.
Early G.E. locomotives (U25 onwards, I’m not sure exactly when they stopped doing this) had 16 throttle notches, instead of the usual 8 on EMD and Alco locomotives. These were organized so that two equaled a single notch on other locomotives for MU purposes. The problem was that they would only increment and decrement one notch at a time, whereas other locomotives from EMD and Alco could be shoved right into notch 8. This was extremely annoying, doubly so if they were the lead unit in a mixed consist (which is another reason besides comfort that crews would try to avoid using them as the lead unit in a mixed consist).
I ran all these GE's 12 years freight and 24 years passenger service. The GE's were KC 109 controllers. They had half notches, so a total of 16 notches, with a foot long throttle handle.
I love Pacers.
Oh god.
THE GOD DANG PACERS DANG IT!
I have been on those things idk how many times and oh boy their ride quallity was about as good as the noise level from the brakes.
Poor.
I live on the Durham coast line that is basically a diversion route for the ECML and the tees valley area in general has always had these things throughout the 2000's. Now for smaller branchlines ok they are reasonable but for intercity regional that they were put on quite a bit they were inadiquet by capacity and ride quallity.
Yet again coming back to the durham coast line i live on i still remember seeing a 2 car pacer pulling up and the thing being litterally packed when heading north to newcastle. Every time at 10:02 it was a pacer without fail.
Despite Northern had the ability to swap it out for a class 156 sprinter that was bigger and better in general.
I despite them things but they are iconic at this rate....
As always, a stellar video with facts and jokes!
Was expecting to see the SR Q1 on here. Was quite successful and they lasted longer than they were designed for, but they were considered one of the ugliest steam trains ever seen in the uk
tbh I kinda liked the C39-8s, yeah they never really preformed that well but the shorter cab kinda won me over, funny enough that's one of the most biggest nags of them
There's NS SD70M 2634.
The C39-8 is a big workhorse for the Norfolk Southern and I think I love the C39-8 and I specifically love the way it looks they are the only C39-8 locomotive series but
all of them are operating today.
My local heritage railway has a pacer set preserved .....
Ummm I'd argue the C39-8 to be a failure being plagued with Turbo failures and Rough Riding
Your rifle was made by the lowest bidder.
The Lake Superior Railroad Museum has an NW5 from the Great Northern that is still operating
There’s a second NW-5 in Duluth, Mn
Gads, the GE units are gawd awlfull!
The Victorian Railways (VR) built wooden electric trains (Taits) in the 1920s and ran them for sixty years yes six decades. The VR was owned by the state government and they were starved of cash from the 1960s. They were withdrawn in the 1980s with the reason they used asbestos brakes. I think that was just an excuse. Their eventual replacement was a long and drawn out process and I felt that if the VR weren’t abolished then the Taits would still be in operation now.
Someone said the Taits were the oldest rolling stock in current revenue service in the world. What rail system operated sixty year old carriages, even for freight.
They had no heating and rattled and not popular, they were called red rattlers. They replaced an earlier set with outward opening doors called dog boxes (or doggies) which were phased out by 1972.
I’d buy a pacer train, might seem odd, but I’d turn her into an RV. Yay!
People already have....
heck 2 schools bought em.
Can you please talk about the GE U23B locomotives next??? I want to know more about the GE U23B. The U23B is my most favorite GE diesel electric locomotive.
Types of seats varied from railroad to railroad.
Last photo of the class 142 was Darlington. Which would mean it's the Darlington to Saltburn line. I've riden that line on the class 142 and didn't mind the bumpy ride.
Honestly yeah, i live in Saltburn so would get these regularly, i was actually sad when Northern stopped using them and replaced them with the 156 and occasional 158
@@denlilleprins6221 same
Idk why us in tees valley really got them hard.
Though the influx of 156 and 158 sprinters means we don't really have to worry about them anymore.
I personally love sprinters just something about them thats so good.
General Electric is becoming the american version of BR
If you do another episode on weirdest trains please consider the British Rail (I'm sorry) class 139 it's a very interesting design and one of my favourite wierd locos.
The faulty Turbos are commonly on any GE locomotives. GE made the first mainline Electric locomotive in the US. S-Motor, T-Motor, and EP2 shares the same Bi-Polar electrical systems.
Hey Darkness, cut BR some slack, man. They've tested lots of stuff, doing the right thing to see what worked and what didn't. If anything, BR's huge slew of engines they decided weren't worth it is a sign of good judgement to me; they just kept trying and eventually found things that worked.
My magnet C39-8s are great workhorses.
No one can outdo British Rail well except maybe Great British Rail
I love the c39-8