RD Vlogs: What Happened to Rimmer?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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My theory on how Rimmer got from Season 8 to Back to Earth (it's not that exciting, really, but here you go).
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Clipper? Isn't it kipper as in the fish?
www.imdb.com/title/tt0684178/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
I was this minute watching one of your videos on Stoke Me A Clipper and realised my mistake. I looked for my comment to delete it but couldn't find it. It's what Rimmer says after becoming Ace, he gets the phrase wrong.
Again, please accept my apology.
Love your videos, I've watched nearly all. I'm a fan of the hard work to make them and very sad you haven't had much higher likes numbers. Just know I've spent hours watching your videos, very enjoyable. Thank you.
Thanks, glad you like the videos!
(And no hard feelings--you'd be surprised at how many people try to correct me on that title.)
I saw a video from a Red Dwarf convention once where Chris himself was asked the question and his head-cannon was that Series 8 Rimmer died and became a hologram in Back to Earth, preserving Series 1-7's development into Ace.
I always assumed was something like that, I mean we saw Rimmer Kick death in the Nards. He's dead....probably asphixated given the situation.... Heck Season 10 probably another alternate time line. Like how Season 7 demonstrated several.
Yeah and probably downloaded previous Rimmer’s data
Even if he didn’t die at the end of “Only the Good,” nothing is more plausible than that Rimmer meeting with some other deadly mishap and needing to be brought back as a hologram.
Just FYI: this video was meant to go up along with "The Beginning", but I didn't get it done in time, then other stuff came up. Ended up making it the week of Christmas since I didn't have a lot of time that week and it's a short video. So this isn't a sign that the Red Dwarf videos are back--they WILL come back, but it'll be a little while longer.
Glad im not only one who has that theory. Since pretty sure even if you kick grim reaper in the crouch, your still dead just means ur spirit trying to avoid the afterlife... Oh imagine Ghost Rimmer meeting Hologram Rimmer.
1:06
"Sorry, no confirmations here, miladdo!" *(does the salute)*
Just discovered this video and I totally agree, there was so much character growth for the original Rimmer, I don't think he'd just abandon that especially not as Ace
I always just assumed he died at the end of 8, became a hologram and received all the previous Rimmer’s data when that happened.
Man, people really put a lot of thought into this series, but that's what fans do, and it's quite admirable, I have to say
That didn't sound at all condescending....
Great video.
I personally subscribe to the Amalgamate Rimmer theory, Prime Rimmer is still Ace, Nano Rimmer died sometime between the end of S8 and BtE (he was alive for long enough to visibly age, but dead long enough to be used to being a hologram by the time we catch up with him and the crew.) After Nano Rimmer died, his last word being"Mu...", they decided to bring him back with the new file on the Nano Red Dwarf combined with a Back file Rescued from the Original Starbug.
This explains why he has memories from all seasons and has aged.
(Also I've been playing with idea in my head for ages as a Fanfic, there is major angst potential, but that's not what you asked.)
Keep up the good work,
M
I think when Lister inferred that Rimmer said "Mu..." Rimmer was speaking of his original Cadmium 2 Radiation leak death. Listy only said his last words were "Mummy Mummy" in keeping with the agreement that he would never mention Gazpacho soup again.
@@monkfan72 - Yeah, that's also valid but doesn't quite fit my headcanon. ;P
Prime Rimmer dies and said "Gazpacho soup!"
Nano Rimmer died and said "Mu..."
YMMV. :)
Peace
M
That's actually not a bad theroy, so I think everyone is in agreement that the rimmer from back to earth onwards is the Nano Rimmer that is combined with a backup file of Prime Rimmer.
While nano Rimmer and Ace switching places was always my personal headcanon, you make a good point about how much growth the original Rimmer experienced and how the Rimmer in S9-12 is more like how he was before, so that calls the ‘switching places’ explanation into doubt.
I heard basically the same theory as you from Seb Patrick (the administrator for the official Red Dwarf website, so someone close to the show), that S9-12 Rimmer is an amalgamation of Nano Rimmer and the holo Rimmer from series 1-6, hence him seeming to have memories from both and reverting back to his pre-Ace tendencies. So I think that’s most likely to be the case.
I agree, I always figured Holly at some point, after saving red dwarf from the virus, found a way to combined both Rimmers together, similar to what happened in me2 except the two rimmers are in the same body.
I prefer the latter hypothesis as well. I recall the liner notes from a series VIII DVD mentioning Ace showing up in Only The Good as a deus ex machina before the conga line ending was shot and scrapped. The re-hologramming idea would leave the question of "Why?" but if the death was in saving the ship and getting everyone out of the mirror universe, bringing him back would be a solid gesture of retribution.
It also makes a good "rule of funny" callback to Timeslides with Rimmer getting blown up once he inadvertently undoes his prior death.
Great video. I agree completely. Another reason that Ace saving the day could not have been a thing is that the other Dwarfers made it seem like whatever it was that saved them from the chameleonic microorganism whatcha thingie was somehow a fluke. "Ace" Space Corpsing his way onto the ship and saving the day would never have been seen a fluke. Nano-Rimmer may have done something, intentionally or unintentionally, that may have reversed the process that may have been perceived by the others as a fluke, and that seems like the more reasonable answer. Again, thanks muchly for the upload. I enjoyed it immensely!
I think Rimmer did die yet again in the end of Season 8 but was brought back as a hologram right away by Holly. This new hologram Rimmer is a combination of season 8 Rimmer with the old Rimmer hologram (using memory back-ups stored by Holly on Red Dwarf). However, the events of Stoke me a Kipper happened before the next memory back-up occurred. So, that character development didn't happen for this version of Rimmer. (if that makes sense)
I thought the old rimmer got in to the jet powered rocket pants and junior bird manned the hell out of there and even if he didn't it would have been a damn fine plan
It always confused me what happened to the original rimmer, he had some real character development
Probably why the reset button was hit. its kinda hard to continue Series 8 Rimmer when he is technically a blank slate of memories.
Klio Gray they should have just brought back ace rimmer, I hate when a character has a lot of character development and they just reset it
@@themysteriouscatperson9483 I'd just love to see Amalgam Rimmer (S8-12) meet original Rimmer (Ace, S1-7) in an episode one day.
@@themysteriouscatperson9483 I think the very worst instance of a character reset has to be Demolisher from Transformers: Energon.
He was simply the loyalist tank Decepticon in Armada with gun fingers but in Energon, he started to undergo an arc where he questioned if he's better off with the Autobots or return to the Decepticon army when Megatron came back from his apparent death. Demolisher was one of the only few characters in Energon(a show best known for being a shoddy anime with CGI more stiff than a 90's Mainframe cartoon) that any sort of depth to his character.
Unfortunately in an example of Energon's ever continuous stream of idiocy, they decide to abruptly halt his arc by killing him off and Megatron having him be resurrected in a new body along with reprogramming the bot into being a dumb subservient bot that's loyal to his master. Effectively erasing all of Demolisher's old character traits and his former identity altogether.
Basically he became Demolisher in name only. Because apparently Energon thought it hadn't already sucked enough as it is with it's crappy writing and bad localisation, they had to go out of their way to nuke one of the few redeeming qualities it had.
Ray Venkman that’s pretty bad, if they wanted a server character, they should have just created one, instead of destroying a characters story arc
Bit late but my theory is that the Nanobots slow restoration of Red Dwarf meant returning it to the point the crew was last on it, which was season 5, as a result the ship went back to it's normal size, and the resurrected crew went back to being dead including Rimmer but they are able to bring him back as a hologram, with his memories up to the events just before of Back to Reality. That's why he's in the season 3-5 style uniform in season 9. He's able to be Hard Light as Kryten had retained the information from Legion on how to change his light Bea.
I feel like Kochanski figures out away to get back to her own reality and made the story up of her dying to save Listers feelings, while Rimmer remained alive for awhile when he eventually died, explaining why he looks older in later seasons, he lived longer.
I have headcanon for other shows, films, books etc but my headcanon for Red Dwarf is there is no headcanon. The RD writers are, were and always shall be a) trolls and b) likely to change whatever needs to be changed for Rule of Funny.
Honestly, that's pretty much my stance, which is why I tend to go with the most direct explanation for everything. Basically, the writers wanted to "reset" Rimmer, so if pressed to explain what happened to Rimmer, I say that he basically died and got "reset" on the show.
Rob and Doug are just lazy is the truth, they never do proper conclusions to cliffhangers, everything is some rushed explanation or in this case none at all.
Jayfive276 I feel like Red Dwarf operates on a slightly softer version of the negative discontinuity of Hitchhiker’s. The plot history might vary between instalments (and mediums - TV, novels) but the consistent thing is the core story. I think SF Debris said something similar - you can imagine that these are alternate universes of the same basic story
Yeah, I agree with this theory, though I think he's the pre-Ace Rimmer mixed with the memories of Season 8 Rimmer, effectively making him a third main character Rimmer.
I think season 9 rimmer is the second hologram that was in tbe me2(squared) episode.
I see what you mean about the Ace theory, it does lose out on what he learns in Stoke me a Clipper and would be inconsistent... but I have a theory within a theory. What if Ace saved the day but at the cost of his current personality? He makes a big sacrifice to save the boys from the dwarf, reverts to his previous personality from a save point in time from a back up drive, Rimmer believes he saved the day, but the boys called it a fluke because it was Ace.
That's interesting.
My favoured theory is honestly kind of similar, I think that at the end of 8, nano-bot Rimmer died but his personality had been stored in the ships holo-suite. Then the dwarfers lived for a couple years, Kris faked her death, but then another Ace turns up and it turns out it’s their original hologram Rimmer, and he’s been trying to get back to his own universe (for a while obviously, infinite universes it’s near impossible), and because there’s so much lost time he agrees to have his holo personality merged with that of nano-bot Rimmer’s, resulting in the return of his neuroses- and as a little fanon thing I just want to see explored in fics, amnesia where he still believes he’s Ace.
I've always sort of figured that each iteration of Red Dwarf was from a different timeline. Hence the changes in Kryten, Ace, Lister's kids, etc. etc....
Isn't it obvious? Current Rimmer is obviously the 'other' Rimmer from Me2. It's simple. End of S8 Rimmer kicks Death and runs off. While Death is recovering, Rimmer reactivates the other Rimmer from Me2 at the end of S1. Together they argue so loudly it get's Death's attention so they lead Death down to the cargo levels where the second Polymorph from S3 has been resurrected by the nanobots. Polymorph takes Death's ruthlessness, live Rimmer's dress sense and holo-Rimmer's mental blockage against learning, revising and remembering. Death sits down, chews a blade of grass and says "ach, I'll get you later", Rimmer dons the gingham dress from Quarantine and meantime the Microbe and the Nanobots meet each other and after a whirlwind romance based on opposites attract ("You make lovely Red Dwarf ships for me to eat" says the microbe) set off together into the sunset, but not before Kryten's Spare Head 3 directs them to 'bleddy well repair everything they messed oop' before he 'cacks his pants again'. Death locks the door preventing live Rimmer or the Polymorph escaping (so he can kill them when he gets around to it) but holo-Rimmer walks through the wall to freedom. Now mentally active, he revises and learns everything Rimmer did in Series 1-6 but avoids S7 and S8 because the reviews were bad. Then the other crew members come back through the portal, holo-Rimmer tells them most of what happened but neglects to mention that Death, Gingham Rimmer and the second Polymorph are encased below, just waiting for Series 13 to begin.
It's obvious.
So from the comments I think everyone is in agreement that the Rimmer in back to earth and beyond is the nano rimmer that died at the end of season 8 and has a combined file of both rimmers we have seen in the series.
The clue is in series 10, Rimmer twice refers to how he saved them before being cut off before he can recount how that was so it was him who saved them so the next question is did the resurrected Rimmer save them or did he die and a reactivated hologram save them or did the resurrected Rimmer save them but die in the process? Whichever way it was it was Rimmer who saved them and that's as much as Doug confirms in canon and yes probably all we will ever get.
As a hologram Rimmer is basically a simulation of the original rather than a literal reincarnation.
Provided that the system backs up his files periodically as a precaution against system crashes then the data from both Rimmers could just have been spliced together after the end of series 8.
Makes far more sense than it being Ace/1st Rimmer.
here's my theory, at the end of series eight after rimmer kicked death, he found another way to get to the mirror universe and found a statius leak into the past right when he was getting the antitdote and the original ending plays out, however, because death touched him, that means he dies after a while so holly found a way to combined both season 1-7 rimmer with season 8 rimmer, possibly due to the black box from starbug when it crashed and from red dwarf, or possibly Holly had a back up hollodisc of every crew member, including ones that were resurrected, in a similar vain to what happened at the end of season 1, except in this case, he's combinding the 2 rimmers into one body. That's what I think happened.
I kinda figured it's something similar to what you said in the video. Rimmer v. 1 is still off in another dimension kicking bottom as Ace. Rimmer v. 2 died sometime after season 8 (I'd like to think him kicking Death in the balls DID work, but then he died not long after because he's Rimmer and he screwed something stupid up), so then the crew revived him as hologram which gave us Rimmer v. 3, who's memories were created from backup files stored on Red Dwarf, making him a combination of v. 1 and 2. This also explains why he's lost any character development from season 7. Since they were stuck on Starbug at the time, none of the memories from seasons 6 and 7 could be stored in Red Dwarf's databanks.
Or the continuity just hops to an alternate dimension every few seasons. That's probably the simpler explanation.
my guess is starbug does have the same backup file capciety that red dwarf has so we get Rimmer up to stock me a clipper and then for whole of season 8
It’s possible rimmer v. 2 didn’t die at all but a hologram based on him was still activated. The show has already made it clear that you can have a hologram of yourself while you are still alive.
I have been thinking about this since it went up, the reason why Rimmer became the old Rimmer before 8 is because Holly saved Rimmer's experience to the ships memory banks, or whatever they are called, so if anything did happen to Rimmer, there would be a backup, just like we have backups of all out digital stuff.
You could argue that our original Rimmer probably died as ace and a amalgamation of season 8 Rimmer is combined with season 1-6 Rimmer.
My idea is that Hal, being hal, created a backup disk of Rimmer, just in case... and with there rimmer as ace, and nano-rimmer gone, they uploaded him into the computer.
Myself I think, that this wasn't the same Rimmer since season 6...or any crewmember in that regard. Since season 6 we see different versions of the dwarfers in different universes and they will travel to all of existence forever and ever. Would explain the retcons and fit to the theme, that every season since is its conclusive arc :D.
End of season 8: Lister, Cat, Kryten and Kochanski come back through the mirror and repair the virus. I don't think the original crew ever make it back but nothing wrong with having the alternate ending as head cannon. It's implied Rimmer dies in both endings, albeit one in a much more morbid way.
Between season 8 & 9: Holly would still have been online for at least a short period of time before Lister destroyed one of their data banks by leaving a bath running. In this time they'd be able to bring back Rimmer as a hologram, probably finding a way to restore his memory to the end of season 6, along with his memories from season 8 (It's established that Rimmer is able to run without Holly as he does so in season 6, so whilst we know there are memory storage banks, we don't really know how they work). Presumably after Rimmer was revived, Kochanski "escaped" so there would be no "Balance of Power" scenario where Rimmer refuses to switch out with her. Lister still thinks they'll find her.
Season 10: Rimmer says it was him that got them out of that mess, and Kryten outright says that he cannot take credit for that. This is probably Rimmer seeing himself as the brave one for being the first to go into the mirror universe, despite the others being the one who successfully cured the virus. Rimmer's personality in this season may often seem like "old Rimmer" but The Beginning establishes that he is his own kind of Ace, he has his weaknessess, one being complacency. His "duty" has always been to keep Lister sane so it's only natural he'd slip back into his old beaurocratic ways in the 9 years between season 8 and Back to Earth
So we've seen 2 rimmers in me2. I think that nano rimmer died right after meeting ace (original rimmer) who saved red dwarf. Eventually the crew ruturned with the formula, ( after nano rimmer took so long) only to see ace who reviled he was og rimmer. Ace gave another lightbee to the crew before leaving. Then they used that one, who also had memories of being ace, hence that bit in season 10.
I kinda prefer the alternate ending to season 8, the crew are in space, away from red dwarf, rimmer saves red dwarf, it’s just the five of them, rimmer gets hit in the head, kills him, regenerates as a hologram, kachanski escapes on a blue midget, status quo restored
Yeah, it would have been simpler if they used the alternate ending.
Cyborcat I guess they just wanted to make a lasting impact, confusing, but nonetheless lasting
It would've made more sense in later episodes as well, since this is the version of events they refer to later on whenever they talk about Kochanski and what happened to the rest of the crew.
Chances are they'll probably reveal everything between Series 8 and Back to Earth when they eventually decide to end Red Dwarf for good. But who knows when or if that'll ever be?
Seasonal gift of 2019! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
In the backstory explaining why Rimmer is a hologram again in the 3-part special Back to Earth, Ace Rimmer returned to our dimension and came to resurrected Rimmer's rescue and saved him and the disintegrating Red Dwarf. In returning for saving resurrecting Rimmer, the hologram Rimmer wary of his adventures as Ace Rimmer passed the mantle onto resurrected Rimmer and the hologram Rimmer rejoined Lister, Cat, Kryten, Holly and Kochanski.
What backstory? Where was this mentioned?
My theory: Continuity was never the show's strongest suit, so why start now?
Or, I dunno, Season I-VII Rimmer got lost or something.
The only explanation I'll accept is that S9-12 Rimmer is a revived hologram of S8 Nano-Rimmer. With some memories implanted from S1-S7E1 to make a sort of Rimmer 'Prime'. Once the Rimmer that took over as Ace left, he never came back.
It's interesting to see how many people seem to basically agree with me these days--the whole reason I made this video is because, at the time, people kept trying to tell me the new Rimmer is Ace.
The Rimmer from Season 8 is the same as the Rimmer from Season 1 except he's not dead. Then in season 9, he is dead. When Series 7 Rimmer left to become Ace that was the last we saw of that version of Rimmer.
Only problem with this theory is- how did they get Rimmer's up to date personality matrix from the dimension they left him in?
My theory is that every few seasons we switch to a similar parallel universe to explain small inconsistencies like how Red Dwarf's interiors keep changing. So Season 9 Rimmer is just another Rimmer that hasn't become Ace yet.
There is another theory that everything between Back to Reality and Back to Earth is a series of Squid hallucinations. Which means there is no Ace, and Rimmer never became him. Which explains him from Back to Earth on.
I'd never heard the "Ace Saves the Day" theory before, but...yeah, doesn't make sense to me either. I always just assumed it was Rimmer died at the end of Season 8 saving the ship and/or during "Season 9" (the season that was never made). Since holograms retain their memory up to and including their deaths (since Rimmer remembered "Gazpacho"), and the ship was recreated by the nanobots (who presumably also recreated Rimmer's holodisk), the two were somehow "merged", making this technically BOTH Rimmers. As to why this Rimmer doesn't have the "bravery" of the S7 "Ace" Rimmer...the holoprojection was taken over by the previous Ace's dimension ship when he was given the "costume" and thus that growth and realization wasn't carried over. So this Rimmer remembers everything up to meeting Ace the second time, but not actually BECOMING Ace or the eulogy the crew gave him when he "died".
TL;DR: Holodisk corruption led to the merger of S1-7 Rimmer with recordings of S8-"9" Rimmer that led to this Rimmer remembering everything but not getting ALL the character growth. Also, it's Red Dwarf, if you overthink your handwaves for between-seasons changes, you'll drive yourself nuts.
I do like the notion that Ace's ship was taking over the projection and memory storage of Rimmer Prime. Good idea.
@CyborCat I just got the Official Series 8 companion for Red Dwarf, and that may be where the "Ace saves the Day" at the end of Only the Good came from. Doug wrote a piece explaining how that was the original ending, Chris Barrie was all in the Ace getup to film it, and he changed his mind kind of last minute to make it a cliffhanger.
I think everyone has pretty much settled on the theory that the rimmer from back to earth and beyond is a combination of memories and personaility of the season 1-7 rimmer and season 8 rimmer.
Not according to a lot of the comments I've gotten.
In my head canon, Rimmer Resurrected died between seasons. The thought collectors wouldn't continue to record, since Holly thought Ace was Rimmer and Ace died. They didn't resurrect Ace after Rimmer Resurrected died, they resurrected Rimmer, so the collectors would only have his memories, both the old hologram and Rimmer Resurrected.
This would explain why he has no memory of being Ace, has his old characteristics and remembers both lives.
I always assumed that the alternate ending of season 8 was the true ending (or at least the ending was resolved similar to that after Death's blow to the nethers).
Since 'Back to Earth' aired, I decided that some time after the end of season 8, something happened to 'Nano' Rimmer which results in his death, and 'Nano' Rimmer is then brought back as 'Hologram Nano' Rimmer.
I also thought that it could be the original 'Smeghead' Rimmer that had returned and traded places with 'Nano' Rimmer, possibly to get away from the danger and big up the position of being 'Ace' while giving the feeble excuse that he was 'injured' or something.
After seeing 'The Beginning' it seems something like that (my third paragraph) might have happened, but during the end of season 8.
Or it could just be that 'Nano' Rimmer died, but was brought back as a hologram which somehow also merged the memories of the previous 'Smeghead' Rimmer. So he retained his memories of season 8, as well as the previous seasons. His death being at the end of season 8 or later, but before 'Back to Earth'.
Maybe the Red Dwarf crew had an unseen Crisis on Infinite Red Dwarfs that happened before series IX and caused us to have a new hologram Rimmer made from S1-7 Rimmer and S8 Rimmer? Hey, it's not like there hasn't been a precedent set for alternative realities in the series.
I'm in the middle because I want it to be the old Rimmer but I also want it to be consistent so for me (This is completely head cannon to make myself feel better) its mainly the normal theory of old Rimmer saving them and switching places except then they updated old Rimmer with new Rimmer's memories to get him up to speed on everything that's happened and this had a side affect of regressing him back to how he was before. That's why the later Seasons give Rimmer more moments of bravery and competence (Not too many, he's still Rimmer) it's his experiences as Ace coming out
Doug Naylor recently confirmed it’s the original Rimmer but hasn’t said how he came back
I always just figured that season 9 onward took place in an alternate dimension. I think I first heard it from Diamanda Hagan (though you may have mentioned it too at some point) that it's pretty easy to explain any continuity issues by assuming that the show just switches to an alternate timeline every few seasons.
My theory is that the original Rimmer (series 1 - 7) left to become Ace. Then at the end of series 8 when the nanobots recreate the entire red dwarf including its crew members, the Rimmer that was made is a new Rimmer. He dies and is revived as a hologram and that's how we get series 9 - 10 Rimmer. Series 11 is where it gets interesting though as in episode 1 Twentica we see that another Rimmer is held captive by the Simulants. My theory is that that Rimmer is Ace who went to the parallel universe Twentica is set in to try and stop the Simulants but he failed leading to him being captured, he is missing his wig and courage as the Simulants most likely tortured him until the crew save him by the exchanging the New Rimmer for the Older one. Therefore the series 11 - 12 Rimmer isn't the same as the series 8 - 10 Rimmer but is the same as the series 1 - 7 Rimmer, only been heavily tortured by the Simulants to the point he lost his Ace persona reducing him to the coward we all know. Well that's just my theory anyway.
I am also on the side that likes to think that series eight Rimmer died and became a hologram. Wouldn't be the first time there was more than one hologram of Rimmer in the same dimension. And not parallel versions. Like the last episode of Series one. The Nanos could have brought back a hologram of Rimmer somehow as they resurrected the crew.
I agree it'd be a shame to undo all Rimmers development from the original series run. I wish they would explain what happened rather than ignore it all so they can just rehash the same old thing. What I liked about the original series is that it did evolve the characters over time. The new run just seems to want to have them in a constant status quo.
Yea, I think that would be the best theory, as well. It makes the most sense, anyway.
I've always wrestled with that. Not like as you stated a hill to die on but it always bothered me that they never explained what happened. But that's typical Red Dwarf they're a little loose with Cannon. And that is fine with me to tell you the truth. I always imagined exactly what you said that l you thought happened at the beginning of series 8 and returning to status quo. I imagine that they found a giant floppy disk containing his program lol. PS I also love that you ended your Rimmer video with one of the best songs ever written LOL. Quick edit here I really am enjoying your red dwarf videos thanks for making them. The song would always come on Maryland Public Television at like midnight when I was a child in the 80s. And I always thought I was up way too late lol but I would watch Red Dwarf. The theme song literally takes me back in time and the episodes are just classic I love the show and you've done a great job thanks.
For neatness I alway assume that season 8 Human Rimmer died. (after he was knocked out by the can) possibly Holly activated a copy of Rimmer's hologram not long after, and thus tried to claim credit for saving the ship. Although honestly easiest would be to assume that each season is part of its own parrel dimension or timeline, multiverse style, thus rendering any continuity errors mute.
My theory: season 8 was a trash baby, so they ignored all of it
hell I just figured it was the Rimmer from season 8 who, yknow, died and was brought back as a hologram, probably due to him literally kicking death in the balls
Great video but there's one slight problem. In "Back to Earth" Kryten surmises that the Dwarfers were able to eventually overcome the hallucinations and get back to reality because their encounter with the Despair Squid had given them all a partial resistance to its toxin. That means Rimmer HAS to be the original one since he was the one with them when they encountered the Despair Squid. "Nano" Rimmer or Me2 Rimmer wouldn't have had the resistance. To me this is the strongest evidence of current Rimmer being the original one.
Not like Red Dwarf even follows its own continuity anyway. "White Hole" ends with them being in a redundant timeline that they won't remember afterwards, then in "Demons and Angels" Lister talks about playing pool with planets.
I'd rather believe that this is pre-Ace Rimmer than Rimmer becoming Ace, then coming back exactly the same as before with zero character development.
I like the theory that I first heard from Diamanda Hagan that says that every few seasons of Red Dwarf are in their own separate dimension.
To be fair, the nanobots did seem to restore a version of Red Dwarf that was aware of the last three million two hundred and six years having taken place, so it stands to reason there would be a Rimmer hologram record with the first five seasons' growth on it.
In general though my headcanon for Red Dwarf has always been that the inconsistencies are part of its humour - the very universe itself shrugging in indifference at your confusion, kind of like how the universe doesn't give a toss about the fictional inhabitants the show follows.
My theory is that the Rimmer in Red Dwarf VIII's Only the Good...'s 1st ending Rimmer and Kochanski dies Rimmer turned into the hologram instead of Kochanski.
There's a much simpler explanation: Seasons 7-9 simply never happened, like the Matrix sequels. It means saying goodbye to Stoke me a Clipper, but that was an episode written to give Rimmer a send off because Chris Barrie wasn't coming back, but then he came back. So 7-9 don't exist for me. I've never even re-watched series 8 since it first aired in the 90s and likely never will. Red Dwarf was always too careless with its own continuity to ever have "canon". Like, how do you explain that the Inquisitor thought Rimmer couldn't have lived a better life when he could have been Ace of all people? It's not worth coming up with daft convoluted fansplainations of how it all fits together, because it doesn't. So, at the end of series 6, my "canon" (such as it is) is the alternate ending to "Out of Time" where Riimmer is a hero and the crew just catch up with red dwarf again and that's that as far as I'm concerned.
To tell the truth, I hate series 8 so much that I will ignore its existence regardless of the Rimmer paradox. It was so bad it killed the show for 10 years.
Your explanation is simple and easy so it’s most likely true I myself just figured pretty much the same all his data would have come back when the nanits restored Red dwarf and JMC Corp records everything to add to it when he was alive for the short time
I always just had the thought our Rimmer from Back to Earth onward is just the hologram of Series VIII Rimmer with the memories of Series I-VII Rimmer. Since in M-Corp, Lister can have his memories reinstalled through CCTV footage, I don't see why Rimmer, basically an advanced computer simulation, can't have his
I like the idea of ace Rimmer coming back but i agree that it ruins the progression of his character, so my theory has always been that Rimmer dies in season 8. Then when he comes back as a hologram his memory's are loaded from his time in season 1-7 from backups. Of course as Rimmer left as ace he couldn't get those memory's. So basically the same one you agree with. haha
My take, season 8 Rimmer died, was resurrected, and was also given the memories of seasons 1- 5 Rimmer (in seasons 6 and 7 they weren't on Red Dwarf to create new back ups) This means he has most of the backstory with the crew, but not the big, hero-like stuff of blowing up the time drive (my head canon) or becoming Ace.
Maybe original Rimmer was just really really crap at being Ace. Maybe it was another gazpacho soup moment where he had his chance and totally cocked it up and never ever ever wants his time as Ace mentioned ever again. How bitter and petty would he then become, knowing out of millions of Rimmers who became Ace, he was the one that failed! Just a thought.
This is IMO the ideal theory lol, it would suit his characterisation so perfectly.
Let's be frank, what actually happened was that S7-S8 were removed from canon save a couple of continuity references to mess with people. They realised the new formula wasn't at all working and did a soft reboot but couldn't be bothered justifying it.
Of course. I'm mainly just playing Devil's Advocate with this video.
I think I prefer your theory
Good things just don't happen to Rimmer for long. Whether it's bad luck, hubris, or his psyche turning traitor on him as is the premise of so many episodes, even the biggest gifts are destined to slip through his fingers. Dying at the end of Season 8, to lose his second life/body so soon after finally, miraculously, getting to live again, (similar to the "Timeslides" episode) just feels too fitting.
now, granted, kneeing the grim reaper in the groin is the most amusing way of escaping "certain" death I've ever encountered in fiction (it's a heck of a callback, too) and for that sake alone I would want it to have worked. But outwitting certain doom is more Lister's milieu than Rimmer. Perhaps the most Rimmeresque fate would be to escape the grim reaper with the knee to the groin only to become so consumed with gloating and congratulating himself that he is still subsequently done in by something trivial. Red Dwarf isn't above having someone take an anticlimactic tumble out an airlock, after all.
I still don’t buy it. Most good things that happen to rimmer that end up blowing up in his face is usually due to plot enforced karma because of the way he acts. His character development in Stoke me a clipper should nullify that trend I think.
If Rimmer had been Ace, but somehow regressed back to his old skeevishness and returned, would he still not brag incessantly about his exploits as Ace? At least drop hints on how he was actually really, really brave, underneath. I think it makes sense that he is an old version - reason be damned. Perhaps we dimension-hopped between seasons, or a giant space cucumber stole Rimmer's body, or whatever.
That's a good point about how Rimmer would have bragged, I'm surprised I didn't think of that.
He is a fair we won’t make is both of them are Rimmer we know the original died as ace then another one came about decided he didn’t want to be Travelled around the Multiverse until meeting Red Dwarf both of this theory is combined This way you don’t have to Delete character development and get to keep your original Rimmer
Yeah, i like that theory
Easy the alternative ending for season 8 is canon so he was killed by The flying soda can the resurrected as a hologram with all of all old Rimmers memories downloaded into new Rimmer
Once you have sythetic people based on copies of people, you don't need much of an explanation of how you "got him back" when you "let him go."
Yeah, I don't get why people want to overcomplicate it.
I have a theory that each episode takes place in its own alternative universe. This would explain why Rimmer relates or refers his one and only sexual encounter three times (Better Than Life, Marooned and Thanks For The Memory) with significant differences, and nobody, not even Lister, picks him up on it; why there are changes of character from original Holly, Kryten, Cat and Christine Kochanski; why Lister never went back in time five years after Stasis Leak, when he was supposed to. I could go on. Each series is from a cluster of universes, so there are significant differences from one series to the next, but each episode from the same series is from the same cluster and will have more subtle differences. For me, this means that, while explanations like living Rimmer dying and becoming a hologram again are interesting, they are unnecessary. I have a hunch that the Rimmers Of series 9 onwards, weren’t resurrected as holograms. They had all been holograms ever since their own version of the original series.
I had a childhood similar to Rimmers (abusive childhood, bullying,
Self loathing) though not a smeghead I'm more like Kryten. I always related with Rimmer so seeing him became Ace was great. Recently I was stuck in bed due to food poisoning with really bad depression. I smoke medical cannabis for anxiety and it helped my stomach but I started thinking about it childhood. With the help of the medical cannabis I was finally able to face my childhood trauma head on and let go finally and start to heal. After that I was alot happier, more confident and laidback similar to dream Ace Rimmer I just thought it was funny.
What a guy!
@@Cyborcat haha that was the perfect reply thank you! I work overnights and have been using that time to workout since im doing nothing most of the time and have dropped from 340 to 290 I still have a long way to go but im proud of myself.
Hey, congrats!
I'm working a partially-remote job, so on the days when I'm at home, I try to work out during my lunch break.
@@Cyborcat That's a great way to do it. I lift dumbbells behind my desk and i walk up and down the halls for like 30 mins and climb a couple flights of stairs.
Great video!
Well, I listened to 2 Geeks 2 Beers interview with Doug & Richard Naylor and Doug confirmed that the Dave Era Rimmer used to be Ace. And he doesn't have the time or resources to tell that story.
So, for me, the Dave Era Rimmer character is broken. 🤔
Meh. Unless it's ever mentioned *on the show* I'm sticking with the version that makes a better story.
@@Cyborcat I strongly agree with this. I know Doug likes writing original Rimmer, but there has been nothing, outside of Doug's word, that would indicate that this Riimmer was ever any kind of inter-dimensional time and space traveling hero.
In the machine election In series 12 it’s revealed he died twice so most likely the series 8 Arnold died and got resurrected as a hologram.again
But he's had two deaths anyway, his original death and then his death at the end of the season 3 episode Timeslides.
I also think the true plot from the end of season 8 doesn’t exist, the writers never made a explanation, sounds lazy, but true
Perhaps they intended for that to be explained in "THE MOVIE"...that never happened. Then too much time passed and Doug was like...smeg it.
AnnPeek probably, it just annoys me when fans put so much effort into researching this show, and the creators are just laughing st us
The movie was going to be a reboot, but with the same cast. so no there was never any intention by the writer to explain anything.
Klio Gray I don’t think they fully thought out the ending
@@themysteriouscatperson9483 Well from what was said. originally the writer (it was mostly only 1 writer series 7+) wanted to end series 8 with Red Dwarf finding its way back to future earth before crash landing in the ocean and creating abit of a mess for the future happy earth people to have to clean up. but they didn't have the money to do that and so there was no ending. so they got to that point where they had 3 endings in mind.
1. The cliffhanger. (which is what we got)
2. The ending with the crew saving the day and having Red Dwarf to themselves again.
3. Ace Rimmer was gonna turn up and save the day (they got the wig out just incase they filmed it, but never did)
Or, we can give rob grant lots of hugs, to convince him to come back and write something decent...
Doug Naylor confirmed the fan theory in a personal letter to me. I have scanned and uploaded it and you can find it here:
Where Charmolution? There is no link, unless you removed it. Please could we see it? It is making my brain hurt trying to work this out! Thanks! :)
Maybe it’s the me squared Rimmer!
He was erased.
Didn't the candy machine just kill rimmer at the end of only the good ?
It certainly concussed him if nothing else which is why he hallucinates about death.
Doesn’t h rimmer take ace rimmers place as he was dying
That was before he left.
So, now that it has been confirmed that the Rimmer we now see is the original Rimmer, how disappointed are you? I am both disappointed and relieved. I LOVE original Rimmer, but was also excited for him to become Ace. The fact that he gave that up and went back to being SMUG GIT Rimmer is painful for me.
Like I said, it doesn't count unless it's been shown or mentioned in the show.
@@Cyborcat I read what Doug said and I think both scenarios could be true.
Sure he said it was the original rimmer but he also used a word I feel is important here: ‘reboot.’ He said that he brought the old rimmer back when they were ‘rebooting’ the show. So it’s possible that series x and onwards follows a different continuity.
I think I know what happen
If it was Ace Rimmer come back, then he's gone through the same character arc twice at the end of The Beginning. That would be poor storytelling. But then again, continuity has been flaky throughout the show, and I saw series 10 as more of a reboot of the show anyway so . . . who knows?
Knowing Rimmer, the Rimmer from stoke me a clipper is the Rimmer in season 9 onward, but playing as the old Rimmer just to F with everyone since that's how he is. But we will never know the reason for the change.
I 100 percent agree with the idea that the original Rimmer is still ace. I could see them using the he is you joke from dimension jump with finally emphasis on. No he is really was you he was the same coward high strung Judas middle named Smeg Head you are.
It's smoke me a kipper, not stoke me a clipper
No, dude. The episode is called "Stoke Me a Clipper", named after what Rimmer says in the end.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0684178/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
And I think we've had this conversation before.