Hey If you could do a video on the Seminole wars that would be great, as they are the only indigenous nation in the US that successfully resisted relocation, that’s why the Florida Seminole are known as the Unconquered people.
There was never any sort of alliance (if there was, show me written documentary evidence) among the stated tribe in what used to be the Northwest as described here. The Declaration of Independence references the brutal and cruel practice of the British in this Northwest area to pay for scalps regardless of the children, pregnant women and little girls scalped. The British continued to foment unrest among renegade Indian tribes as evidenced by the words contained in the said Declaration of Independence. St. Clair, unfortunately, did not benefit from the 200 years of learning curves from fighting renegade Indians. There is a pdf by Van Cleve who narrates the misadventure. The conflict was precipitated by the British, not some sort of independent Indian alliance.
For those who want to know more there is a book called The Victory With No Name that details the events leading, during, and after this event. This indigenous victory set a marker for several US military habits involving using native scouts and guerilla tactics; mainly ambush formations (L shape) and sign language. Also Little Turtle was considered a respectful ally after this event and was buried under military colors similar to a US Army General.
They also taught a complete lack of mercy, funnily enough the video doesn't mention the two hundred plus civilians massacred with the wounded. This victory was a disaster for the natives, it ended any chance of a negotiated settlement of the conflicts that began with Pontiac's war and endured through the revolution. Had they contented themselves with the victory and refrained from the massacre, it is likely they could have achieved an actual settlement with the US.
I have visited the battlefield site in what is now Fort Recovery in western Ohio. There is an impressive monolith with a statue of a soldier. Under the monolith is the final resting place of hundreds of the dead, whose bones were gathered the following year and buried. The Wabash River was rerouted by the Army Corps of Engineers in the 1800’s to build the Ohio/ Erie Canal. Today the river is a shallow stream that is dry.
I am a Miami Indian and remember being often told of this historical Native victory by my tribal elders. Chief Little Turtle is one of my distant ancestors and my 3rd great grandfather, Chief John Bull Mongosa was the last war chief of the Miami Indians in Indiana.
There used to be an outdoor drama called "Blue Jacket" that was performed in SW Ohio. It sadly shut down several years ago, but depicted a lot of this campaign, including the Battle of the Wabash. At the time, they liked to claim that it was the only outdoor drama that featured flaming arrows.
Could you please do a video on the Seminole wars ?, they are the only “Unconquered” indigenous nation, who successfully resisted relocation, it would make an awesome video !
I'm in my 60's, born and still live in Fort Wayne. Went to school with and best friends with Little Turtles descendants. They're still here. The oldest treaty house east of the Mississippi is about a mile from my house. So much history here.
I'm also from Fort Wayne, which included growing up in New Haven from age 11 until moving out a few times, turning 60 next year. Overseas now. One thing I've picked up on is that there were several confrontations I'm aware of, which included the French Fort Miamis being attacked in I believe 1747 by native Americans, another in 1780 during the Revolution, and the last being the 1812 seige. That's interesting you mention Little Turtle's descendants. At IPFW, there was a descendant of Davy Crockett in a couple classes. He didn't brag about it, people asked him because of the same surname. To close, I'm in Singapore and hear many detailed stories of the Japanese Occupation during World War II.
Check out William Hoagland's book, "Autumn Of The Black Snake", which chronicles the events leading up to and those after St Clair's Defeat-----which Hoagland argues were instrumental in the formation of a standing US Army, something opposed by many of the original Founding Fathers. A search for "Little Turtle" online can also give you lots of information. In short, the Miami were a tribal nation situated at an extremely important junction of several rivers (which were the equivalent of modern highways back then, as overland travel was difficult) which gave access to Lake Erie and ultimately all the way East to the Atlantic coast, and Westward via the Wabash River to the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. This gave them a huge advantage in both Native and British/French/American trade and made them quite prosperous. Additionally, they hybridized a type of maize which could be ground into a fine flour (as opposed to a coarse corn meal) which was very digestible as well as desired in trade. Their "capital", Kekionga, was a pretty large settlement (at the present site of modern day Ft Wayne, IN) which probably didn't look much different than NE Indiana today-----large fields of corn spreading out for miles, as the Miami were a settled agricultural people........but, as St Clair and Harmer also discovered, fierce warriors. Possibly one of the larger and more powerful tribes, both economically and militarily, that nobody has ever heard of for the most part.
@@ruskibot7745 ok I didn't know there was a Miami Oklahoma but thanks I'll have to ask my dad if he's been through there since he's been to so many states as a truck driver.
I am from Brazil and have some indiginous blood, feel so proud for all native american nations, and i found their history fascinanting, something about learning about it, just speaks to my soul. Preach for my native american brothers and sisters ❤
I’m happy Brazil’s natives have kept so much of their culture and language and traditions. Most native cultures in the US had massive loss of traditions and language
My 5th great uncle was Captain Richard " Shawtunte" Sparks, an adoptee of Tecumseh's father. Repatriated with the whites after Pukshinwah's death at the battle of point pleasant in Lord Dunsmores war, he scouted with Chief Piamingo of the Choctaw and William and George Colbert, half Scots, half Choctaw and warned St Clair of the impending doom, but he ignored them. So, gives the choice of dying with St Claire, or going back out to scout, they unanimously chose to go back out scouting. St Claire was a blundering fool. They made it safely to Fort Franklin, modern day Cincinnati area
Yeah, this seems like a failure of command. Brave man but foolish. The Romans learned millennia ago that you always make a fortified camp in “barbarian” territory, and stacking your weapons with the enemy afoot is rather ridiculous.
Being Welsh with Irish decent I've always had much love and respect for the Native American. We Welsh have lived under a occupying force in one form or another since the Roman Empire turned up..🏴🇮🇪❤️⚒️⚒️⚒️
I’m American of Sardinian and and scotch-Irish decent. My first ancestor was brought to the American colonies at 12 years old slave. After buying his freedom, land and raising a family, he and his entire family ,except for one grandson who was snuck out of the makeshift fort by his mother, were massacred by Indians after surrendering. Save your respect for individuals who earn it, don’t go giving it away to people just because their ancestors lost some fights.
@@ibestrokin it was a raiding party that also killed the local natives. My ancestors were brought here by force, and it wasn’t their home. Your ignorance is a perfect example of the intentional distortion of real history that is destroying our civilization.
I teach US Army Military History for the Boston University Army ROTC Program. I first heard about this battle via The History Guy's video. I show that video in class, so we can discuss the History of that time. And BTW, at one time I lived in Peru, IN and saw the reenactment of the Battle of the Mississinewa (not sure of spelling). My neighbors in Peru gave me their time on the history of the Meshikinsoquah era.
Wow, I didn’t know this story before I watched your Video. Very good presentation, thank you for your work. PS- I’m an Aussie, and a History buff, this seems to be a “hidden” slice of history.
I'm from Fort Wayne, born and raised there, its suburb New Haven age 11 until moving out three times. Now overseas. When Harmer's Defeat was mention, I knew where it was. Anyway, my dad and step-mom lived in the Lagro area in Wabash County for a while. They moved to Washington state several years ago.
There was a second battle at the same site. The second battle was led by Gen (Mad) Anthony Wayne. Ft Wayne is named after him. It set up the Treaty of (Ft) Greenville in Darke County, Ohio. Chief Little Turtle was to have said"I will fight no more forever " after their defeat at Ft Wayne.
Fun facts: 1. Most of the volunteers had never even fired a musket before the battle commenced. 2. The suppliers cheated St Clair, providing thin tents, thin uniforms, and shoes so shoddy they fell apart on the march. They were freezing and starving before the battle started.
Learned something new today about this battle and about were some of these indigenous names come from such as Delaware, Pontiac, Tecumseh, Miami and others.
What wasn't mentioned was that St. Clair was hampered by slow shipments which delayed his starting out on the campaign, blame congress. Then when they finally did start out he had a lot of desertions because the militia had only agreed to be gone for so long and had to get back home. When the attack came his best troops, a small contingent of regulars was out chasing down a large group of said deserters. I'm no fan of St. Clair, his autocratic actions didn't win him many friends among the militia and contributed to the desertions but his army wasn't firing on all cylinders when the battle began. This attack led to the creation of the standing U.S. Army which Washington still faced a lot of opposition too...including from Jefferson. I don't know if St. Clair was a good enough general at the time to have defeated Little Turtle/Blue Jacket even with his full army but he did meet some success during the Revolutionary War. Even though he received command because he was a friend of Washington's, Washington had him brought up on charges (I don't remember what) for the debacle but he was let off. A good book on this subject and the subsequent Battle of The Fallen Timbers which gained the U.S. almost half of Ohio is Autumn of The Black Snake by Hogeland.
A perfect example of how a nation buries its unflattering history. I teach history in the Ohio region and have only had two students who had ever heard of this defeat.
How is it unflattering?? Tribes fought each other all the time. Do you think war paint was around before whites? White man no different than any warring tribe, except their pissed cause the white tribe won. Signed, brave white warrior.
I read about this years ago in a book called "the Battle of a Thousand Slain". It was a collection of stories about the Indian Wars. Aside from being weakened by desertion and food shortages, St Claire's army also had internal divisions between the regulars and volunteer troops. Some of the casualties were the result of friendly fire as the militia rushed into the regular camp. The reason it is not taught in history classes is that the victory was transitory. Another force was raised under Mad Anthony Wayne, who reorganized the force into The American Legion with four sub legions. Wayne had been surprised at Paoli during the Revolution, and was very vigilant about security measures. I believe the Indians called him the leader who sleeps with one eye open. The other advantage Wayne had is that he took the time and effort to train his force before marching off to engage the Indians. Wayne was effective in defeating the Indians because of this.
Thanks for the feedback. Indeed, General Wayne's approach to command and training is what made all the difference (He also presided over the court martial that introduced a young Meriwether Lewis to Lt. William Clark, but that's another story.) The fort where Wayne trained his troops was called Legionville and is located near Ambridge, Pennsylvania in Beaver County. I am fortunate to have a friend in that county who actually showed me the old wagon ruts next to a state road that ran through the camp. Wayne was so intent in controlling the field that he wanted to keep track of every civilian wagon heading to the frontier, so he had the only 'road' in the region run directly through the fort. The results of the battle of Fallen Timbers in 1794 speak for themselves.
Factoid: Chief Blue Jacket was Dutch. He was out hunting with his younger brother as a teenager. A band of Shawnees intercepted them. They were going to be killed (as I remember the story). But the older boy was able to talk to them and negotiate a deal. He would go with them, if they let his young brother return home unharmed. They agreed. He became Shawnee (I don't remember his Dutch name, but it is known.) His reputation for bravery and good judgment enabled him to become a Shawnee War Chief. A War Chief is a position that is elected. It has nothing to do with governing or making tribal decisions. A War Chief was NOT a regular Chief.
@@Dylan-kx6fc Amazing books. Those footnotes are the same you find in a scholarly text. They cite the sources of his material. Those books are prose, but are real history. For me, it brought history to life.
@@Dylan-kx6fc That, The Conquerors, and Frontiersmen. All excellent. This is great. Never met anyone that even read them, or heard of them before. The story of Simon Kenton/Butler was amazing. Why has no movie been made of his life? He is better than a Marvel super hero.
Can someone please tell me which artist did the painting used for the thumbnail. The one depicting the battle on both sides of the river and with snow on the ground. Thanks in advance.
Very interesting. I am from a native American tribe also. I am mohawk and part blackfoot. Due to my lineage from my mother's great great grandmother's side of the family. ❤😮
@@Outlier999 The Seminole inflicted heavy casualties and the U.S. spent a huge amount of money on the various campaigns against them. It was a cumulative heavy cost. But in terms of losing a single battle with high casualties even by the standards of modern warfare St. Claire's defeat tops all battles in terms of native vs. white conflicts in North America.
@@reycesarcarino4653 the biggest problem were the virus disease and some betrayer of a tribes. Virus disease & unfortunated backstabber betrayal were among the factor of their native defeat
There is a confusing bit at 3:40. The narrator speaks of “mid- to late 1870ies”. That’s a one hundred years jump from the previous subtitle. Perhaps its a typo and we are actually talking of the mid- to late 1770ies. But to refer to a “cycle of violence” here kind of foes without saying: it’s in the middle of the US War of Independence. So, what period are we referring to here exactly? Ok, listening to the rest of the narration, I assume it was an inversion typo: should be “1780ies” rather than “1870ies”.
Not surprisingly, I've never heard of this event. I'm British, but suspect the same applies to most Americans. Military powers always try to brush their defeats under the carpet, hence our history books shy clear of mentioning major victories by peoples such as the Maori and Ashanti. I wish all descendants of these peoples well, and hope they can live in dignity for the future.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Mostly those would be against other European powers, and even those are usually spun in some way. As for movies, one of the best is Zulu, but it's not about Isandlwana, is it?
@@lyndoncmp5751 Yeah, I know that, but it's not the great film that Zulu is. Almost half-hearted, in fact. Typical lacklustre sequel/prequel, and gives no place to Cetewayo's ultimate assessment. I'd say it proves my point, but I know you'll disagree, so how about leaving it at that?
@@unclenogbad1509 How you liked the end product doesn't negate that there was a major film with major actors portraying a major British defeat. This was 1979, just two years on from a Bridge Too Far. There was also The Charge of the Light Brigade in the 1960s. The British don't shy away from bringing attention to defeats.
Extremely interesting, heroic in one way but absolute tragic that people couldn’t live in harmony. Also history has shown that the US military has to pick a fight to gain ‘something’.
I dont have the numbers on the top of my head, but I've always thought that the Dade Massacre was one of the most decisive and one-sided native american victories.
No I have many books about this sometimes you need to learn beyond school, but is not censors you can read about online or go to a library and get a physical copy,
I am direct descendent of Chief Blue Jacket. It was proven in the early 2000s thru dna that Bluejacket was not a Dutch child that was captured by the Shawnee. But was indeed a Full Blood Shawnee. Marmaduke Van Swearingen was not the true-Blue Jacket But was given the name as was custom in that time. he was not captured until in the 1770-time frame. BlueJacket or Weyapiersenwah was war chief "c. 1743-1810" and was the true BlueJacket.
It stands to reason that the American army would suffer much bigger defeats at the hands of indigenous people in the late eighteenth century than they would some eighty years later in the 1870s , when by that later time , sadly , the indigenous people were all but vanquished .
It wasn't just that the militia were untrained and poorly disciplined, many showed up unarmed, the states raising the men expecting the Federal Government to arm them. This was because the Militia Act of 1792 as amended and the various state militia laws had no enforcing capability. The law mandated that every militiaman own a musket or rifle yet there were no enforcement provisions so that even by 1814, 1000 Kentucky volunteers from the militia showed up in New Orleans in 1814 with no weapons. As far as native auxiliaries, the Continental Army had Mohicans and Delawares acting as scouts and in direct support during the Western campaigns against British, Loyalist and their allied natives, mostly Iroquois, Creek and Cherokee.
What does it matter? The Americans won the war. By fair means or foul, despite losing some battles, the Americans won 🏆 that war and all others. The land is ours by right of conquest, something the Indians understood and practiced.
You can not compare the two battles (Wabash vs. Little Big Horn). Little Big Horn was a culmination of two battles to include the Battle of Rosebud against General Crook (1,300 men) 8 days prior to the Little Big Horn (Greasy Grass). 7th CAV had a combined force of 700 men. Both US Army units had a combined force of 2,000 men. The combined force of Lakota, Cheyenne, & Arapaho was more like 20,000 according to the Lakota witnesses (I lived on the Pine Ridge in the late 1970s). Over 300 Men were killed from the 2 US Army Units. They could've easily wiped out both units, however the mission was accomplished by the extermination of the "Son of the morning star" due to his atrocities to their people.
This event mauled the US Army. It has to be remembered that for so much of American history before WWI and its own Civil War, the United States was quite averse to keeping a large standing army. A distrust of a standing army, even. The Continental Army was gutted after the US won its independence from Britain. The US Army was something like 2500 strong in the 1780s. So the Army losing around 1400 men at the Battle of the Wabash is a big deal. On a semi-related note to US Army strength at the time and the army losing so much of its strength due to Wabash, the French Revolutionary Wars began in 1792, only a few months after Wabash. The new French government sent diplomats to the USA to garner support. Return the favor, France helped out in the American War of Independence, right? But President George Washington wisely denied the request and prevented any measure of volunteer formations to be raised. Washington kept the US neutral. The US Army was in no shape at all to play with European politics and wars.
France didn't care about America France was only interested in fighting the British. Purely self interests. And the French Revolution, while noble in theory, was disgusting in practice.
In the thumbnail it says: "The battle is also referred as the Battle of a Thousand Slain. It's the US Army's Biggest or worst Defeat in history." Yeah, no. Just in World War II, for instance, there's Bataan/Corregidor and the Battle of Kasserine Pass, both of which were much larger defeats. The Civil War has a lot of examples of battle lost by the U.S. Army that were MUCH larger then this battle. This is just off the top of my head, there are certainly many more.
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Hey If you could do a video on the Seminole wars that would be great, as they are the only indigenous nation in the US that successfully resisted relocation, that’s why the Florida Seminole are known as the Unconquered people.
There was never any sort of alliance (if there was, show me written documentary evidence) among the stated tribe in what used to be the Northwest as described here.
The Declaration of Independence references the brutal and cruel practice of the British in this Northwest area to pay for scalps regardless of the children, pregnant women and little girls scalped. The British continued to foment unrest among renegade Indian tribes as evidenced by the words contained in the said Declaration of Independence.
St. Clair, unfortunately, did not benefit from the 200 years of learning curves from fighting renegade Indians. There is a pdf by Van Cleve who narrates the misadventure. The conflict was precipitated by the British, not some sort of independent Indian alliance.
For those who want to know more there is a book called The Victory With No Name that details the events leading, during, and after this event. This indigenous victory set a marker for several US military habits involving using native scouts and guerilla tactics; mainly ambush formations (L shape) and sign language. Also Little Turtle was considered a respectful ally after this event and was buried under military colors similar to a US Army General.
🙏 appreciate the lesson
There is another book that came out this year called "War along the Wabash" by Steven P. Locke that covers the same battle
They also taught a complete lack of mercy, funnily enough the video doesn't mention the two hundred plus civilians massacred with the wounded. This victory was a disaster for the natives, it ended any chance of a negotiated settlement of the conflicts that began with Pontiac's war and endured through the revolution. Had they contented themselves with the victory and refrained from the massacre, it is likely they could have achieved an actual settlement with the US.
@@chuckyxii10It wouldn't have lasted. New settlers where always pressing westward
ah yes, persist the attack. a complete total failure.
I have visited the battlefield site in what is now Fort Recovery in western Ohio. There is an impressive monolith with a statue of a soldier. Under the monolith is the final resting place of hundreds of the dead, whose bones were gathered the following year and buried. The Wabash River was rerouted by the Army Corps of Engineers in the 1800’s to build the Ohio/ Erie Canal. Today the river is a shallow stream that is dry.
Typical Whiteman, destroying nature and the environment.
I am a Miami Indian and remember being often told of this historical Native victory by my tribal elders. Chief Little Turtle is one of my distant ancestors and my 3rd great grandfather, Chief John Bull Mongosa was the last war chief of the Miami Indians in Indiana.
There used to be an outdoor drama called "Blue Jacket" that was performed in SW Ohio. It sadly shut down several years ago, but depicted a lot of this campaign, including the Battle of the Wabash. At the time, they liked to claim that it was the only outdoor drama that featured flaming arrows.
In Chillicothe they still do it I go to it every year they do bluejacket and tecumseh
Could you please do a video on the Seminole wars ?, they are the only “Unconquered” indigenous nation, who successfully resisted relocation, it would make an awesome video !
Yes it's on my to do list :)
Unbowed, unbent, unbroken
@@pinchevulpes. Yeah..some of us managed to stay
Some
Not the only one! The Comanche never surrendered either, I’m sure there’s other examples in the west too
Thanks for making this. Too few know about this battle
I'm in my 60's, born and still live in Fort Wayne. Went to school with and best friends with Little Turtles descendants. They're still here. The oldest treaty house east of the Mississippi is about a mile from my house. So much history here.
I'm also from Fort Wayne, which included growing up in New Haven from age 11 until moving out a few times, turning 60 next year. Overseas now. One thing I've picked up on is that there were several confrontations I'm aware of, which included the French Fort Miamis being attacked in I believe 1747 by native Americans, another in 1780 during the Revolution, and the last being the 1812 seige. That's interesting you mention Little Turtle's descendants. At IPFW, there was a descendant of Davy Crockett in a couple classes. He didn't brag about it, people asked him because of the same surname. To close, I'm in Singapore and hear many detailed stories of the Japanese Occupation during World War II.
No wonder this isn't talked about. Human history is bloody beyond belief. There were no good ole days.
I would love to hear more about this Miami tribe.
Check out William Hoagland's book, "Autumn Of The Black Snake", which chronicles the events leading up to and those after St Clair's Defeat-----which Hoagland argues were instrumental in the formation of a standing US Army, something opposed by many of the original Founding Fathers. A search for "Little Turtle" online can also give you lots of information. In short, the Miami were a tribal nation situated at an extremely important junction of several rivers (which were the equivalent of modern highways back then, as overland travel was difficult) which gave access to Lake Erie and ultimately all the way East to the Atlantic coast, and Westward via the Wabash River to the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. This gave them a huge advantage in both Native and British/French/American trade and made them quite prosperous. Additionally, they hybridized a type of maize which could be ground into a fine flour (as opposed to a coarse corn meal) which was very digestible as well as desired in trade. Their "capital", Kekionga, was a pretty large settlement (at the present site of modern day Ft Wayne, IN) which probably didn't look much different than NE Indiana today-----large fields of corn spreading out for miles, as the Miami were a settled agricultural people........but, as St Clair and Harmer also discovered, fierce warriors. Possibly one of the larger and more powerful tribes, both economically and militarily, that nobody has ever heard of for the most part.
Go to Miami Oklahoma. Plenty live there.
@@ruskibot7745 ok I didn't know there was a Miami Oklahoma but thanks I'll have to ask my dad if he's been through there since he's been to so many states as a truck driver.
they were cannibals that lived in the woods. they never invented anything. they allowed humans to realize their godliness. they served their purpose.
@@rdf4315 Its on Route 66, nice little town.
I am from Brazil and have some indiginous blood, feel so proud for all native american nations, and i found their history fascinanting, something about learning about it, just speaks to my soul. Preach for my native american brothers and sisters ❤
From a "north american" native to a "south american" native, we stand together on the lands we once did before.
☀️🙌
@@Kawaiijihad Yes brother 🤝
I’m happy Brazil’s natives have kept so much of their culture and language and traditions. Most native cultures in the US had massive loss of traditions and language
LMFAO
Completely different civilizations
Thank you for sharing this video. What America needs is knowledge of the history from many perspectives.
Great history lesson thank you.
My 5th great uncle was Captain Richard " Shawtunte" Sparks, an adoptee of Tecumseh's father. Repatriated with the whites after Pukshinwah's death at the battle of point pleasant in Lord Dunsmores war, he scouted with Chief Piamingo of the Choctaw and William and George Colbert, half Scots, half Choctaw and warned St Clair of the impending doom, but he ignored them. So, gives the choice of dying with St Claire, or going back out to scout, they unanimously chose to go back out scouting. St Claire was a blundering fool. They made it safely to Fort Franklin, modern day Cincinnati area
Yeah, this seems like a failure of command. Brave man but foolish.
The Romans learned millennia ago that you always make a fortified camp in “barbarian” territory, and stacking your weapons with the enemy afoot is rather ridiculous.
That's a neat little piece of family history. Salute!
My 2 oldest are direct descendants of Tecumseh.
Fascinating. Thank you for narrating and posting this.
Being Welsh with Irish decent I've always had much love and respect for the Native American. We Welsh have lived under a occupying force in one form or another since the Roman Empire turned up..🏴🇮🇪❤️⚒️⚒️⚒️
If you are welsh odds are you are Roman bud…
So has every other country. Not particularly exclusive to the Welsh.
I’m American of Sardinian and and scotch-Irish decent. My first ancestor was brought to the American colonies at 12 years old slave. After buying his freedom, land and raising a family, he and his entire family ,except for one grandson who was snuck out of the makeshift fort by his mother, were massacred by Indians after surrendering. Save your respect for individuals who earn it, don’t go giving it away to people just because their ancestors lost some fights.
@@miked8545 you cant invade someone's home and then complain that they 86ed you.
@@ibestrokin it was a raiding party that also killed the local natives. My ancestors were brought here by force, and it wasn’t their home. Your ignorance is a perfect example of the intentional distortion of real history that is destroying our civilization.
So awesome hear this history being told basically taking place in my neck of the woods so long ago.
I teach US Army Military History for the Boston University Army ROTC Program. I first heard about this battle via The History Guy's video. I show that video in class, so we can discuss the History of that time. And BTW, at one time I lived in Peru, IN and saw the reenactment of the Battle of the Mississinewa (not sure of spelling). My neighbors in Peru gave me their time on the history of the Meshikinsoquah era.
Thanks for making these videos
Wow, I didn’t know this story before I watched your Video. Very good presentation, thank you for your work. PS- I’m an Aussie, and a History buff, this seems to be a “hidden” slice of history.
I love the illustrations they look so goodm
Brings a whole new meaning to “The Wabash Cannonball”
Or the tune named "Hell on the Wabash"
In memory of those brave indigenous warriors! 💪
Amen love my native brothers and sisters and ancestors 😊
@@acnj228 LONG LIVE THE INDIGENOUS ONES MY NATIVE BROTHER!!!💙👌🏽🪶🪶🪶💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💯💯💯
💙💙💙👌🏽🪶🪶🪶💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💯💯💯AGREED BRO!!!
Your people fought hard and I respect that ✊🏻
@@GenBlaze99 salute! 🍺🍺✌
Great content very informative and very tastefully presentation! 🇺🇸
Excellent presentation. Many Thanks
Great video. Keep them comming!
Good overview of a fascinating yet totally forgotten campaign that’s key in early American frontier history
Wow! I was not aware of this event. In terms of number dead, percentage of casualties to total troupe strength, it really is astouding.
lolol
Thank you for the video
Great content
It was very interesting. Thank you for your effort. Just goes to show what happens when different small nations form a united front against invaders..
Excellent! Never heard of this before
A scary encounter for sure. Good to in good physical shape when fighting for your life.
I live in Wabash County Indiana on the Eel river
I'm from Fort Wayne, born and raised there, its suburb New Haven age 11 until moving out three times. Now overseas. When Harmer's Defeat was mention, I knew where it was. Anyway, my dad and step-mom lived in the Lagro area in Wabash County for a while. They moved to Washington state several years ago.
You were right, in every way.. those solemn few with a open conscious -2023
speaking of the Great Lakes. they've found pyrimid structures in the waters. Kurimeo Ahau just did a 5 part series on them
There was a second battle at the same site. The second battle was led by Gen (Mad) Anthony Wayne. Ft Wayne is named after him. It set up the Treaty of (Ft) Greenville in Darke County, Ohio. Chief Little Turtle was to have said"I will fight no more forever " after their defeat at Ft Wayne.
I live near Chief Little Turtles historic village. There is a nice plaque on the site, right next to the trailer court. 😱
Fun facts: 1. Most of the volunteers had never even fired a musket before the battle commenced. 2. The suppliers cheated St Clair, providing thin tents, thin uniforms, and shoes so shoddy they fell apart on the march. They were freezing and starving before the battle started.
Booo who 😂
Womp womp.
Would make a great movie.
fk no
It's nice when the good guys win.
True. The good guys won in the end
Not really unless you count genocide as acceptable.
@@rki7068
made this nation a super power that those little bickering tribes couldnt band together to do@@neilmunro7961
@@rki7068good guys don’t do genocide
Learned something new today about this battle and about were some of these indigenous names come from such as Delaware, Pontiac, Tecumseh, Miami and others.
I am curious as to why the great name of Tecumseh was not mentioned, was he a prominent figure at a later time in this resistance?
Interesting story. Where did you find the prints? I especially like those at 4:06 and 8:00.
Glorious!
Was Little Turtle that smart or was St. Clair that dumb?
What wasn't mentioned was that St. Clair was hampered by slow shipments which delayed his starting out on the campaign, blame congress. Then when they finally did start out he had a lot of desertions because the militia had only agreed to be gone for so long and had to get back home. When the attack came his best troops, a small contingent of regulars was out chasing down a large group of said deserters. I'm no fan of St. Clair, his autocratic actions didn't win him many friends among the militia and contributed to the desertions but his army wasn't firing on all cylinders when the battle began. This attack led to the creation of the standing U.S. Army which Washington still faced a lot of opposition too...including from Jefferson. I don't know if St. Clair was a good enough general at the time to have defeated Little Turtle/Blue Jacket even with his full army but he did meet some success during the Revolutionary War. Even though he received command because he was a friend of Washington's, Washington had him brought up on charges (I don't remember what) for the debacle but he was let off. A good book on this subject and the subsequent Battle of The Fallen Timbers which gained the U.S. almost half of Ohio is Autumn of The Black Snake by Hogeland.
interesting, I had never even heard of this battle
A perfect example of how a nation buries its unflattering history. I teach history in the Ohio region and have only had two students who had ever heard of this defeat.
We were taught this in 4th grade Indiana history class.
How is it unflattering?? Tribes fought each other all the time. Do you think war paint was around before whites?
White man no different than any warring tribe, except their pissed cause the white tribe won.
Signed, brave white warrior.
I read about this years ago in a book called "the Battle of a Thousand Slain". It was a collection of stories about the Indian Wars. Aside from being weakened by desertion and food shortages, St Claire's army also had internal divisions between the regulars and volunteer troops. Some of the casualties were the result of friendly fire as the militia rushed into the regular camp.
The reason it is not taught in history classes is that the victory was transitory. Another force was raised under Mad Anthony Wayne, who reorganized the force into The American Legion with four sub legions. Wayne had been surprised at Paoli during the Revolution, and was very vigilant about security measures. I believe the Indians called him the leader who sleeps with one eye open. The other advantage Wayne had is that he took the time and effort to train his force before marching off to engage the Indians. Wayne was effective in defeating the Indians because of this.
Thanks for the feedback. Indeed, General Wayne's approach to command and training is what made all the difference (He also presided over the court martial that introduced a young Meriwether Lewis to Lt. William Clark, but that's another story.)
The fort where Wayne trained his troops was called Legionville and is located near Ambridge, Pennsylvania in Beaver County. I am fortunate to have a friend in that county who actually showed me the old wagon ruts next to a state road that ran through the camp.
Wayne was so intent in controlling the field that he wanted to keep track of every civilian wagon heading to the frontier, so he had the only 'road' in the region run directly through the fort. The results of the battle of Fallen Timbers in 1794 speak for themselves.
Factoid:
Chief Blue Jacket was Dutch.
He was out hunting with his younger brother as a teenager.
A band of Shawnees intercepted them. They were going to be killed (as I remember the story).
But the older boy was able to talk to them and negotiate a deal.
He would go with them, if they let his young brother return home unharmed.
They agreed.
He became Shawnee (I don't remember his Dutch name, but it is known.)
His reputation for bravery and good judgment enabled him to become
a Shawnee War Chief.
A War Chief is a position that is elected.
It has nothing to do with governing or making tribal decisions.
A War Chief was NOT a regular Chief.
@@Dylan-kx6fc Yes. My source is the book The Frontiersmen by Allan Eckert.
Great book, if you don't know it.
@@Dylan-kx6fc Amazing books. Those footnotes are the same you find in a scholarly text. They cite the sources of his material.
Those books are prose, but are real history.
For me, it brought history to life.
@@Dylan-kx6fc That, The Conquerors, and Frontiersmen. All excellent.
This is great. Never met anyone that even read them, or heard of them before.
The story of Simon Kenton/Butler was amazing.
Why has no movie been made of his life?
He is better than a Marvel super hero.
@@Dylan-kx6fc Also, why has no movie been made of William Johnson?? That guy was incredible.
As good as the historical fiction books are that this story comes from, the historical record doesn’t seem to back it up
Can someone please tell me which artist did the painting used for the thumbnail. The one depicting the battle on both sides of the river and with snow on the ground. Thanks in advance.
Good 👍😊
Excuting the wounded? Seems savage too me
Good
Very interesting. I am from a native American tribe also. I am mohawk and part blackfoot. Due to my lineage from my mother's great great grandmother's side of the family. ❤😮
The biggest defeat was actually the Seminole wars.
Not really. The Seminoles successfully resisted relocation but they have not ruled Florida for over 150 years. Call it a draw.
@@Outlier999 The Seminole inflicted heavy casualties and the U.S. spent a huge amount of money on the various campaigns against them. It was a cumulative heavy cost. But in terms of losing a single battle with high casualties even by the standards of modern warfare St. Claire's defeat tops all battles in terms of native vs. white conflicts in North America.
Wow man.
I only have 88 days left in the U.S. Army IRR.
Is this where Saint clairsville Ohio gets its name?
A great (unknown) victory for the Natives Man !
Tribes,Clans or Castes when Indigenous band together they are a Strong Native Nation
But they still lost eventually. They could not adapt to changing times.
@@Outlier999 they could not but they gave a hell of a fight after all the thing About progress it stops for no man
@@reycesarcarino4653 the biggest problem were the virus disease and some betrayer of a tribes. Virus disease & unfortunated backstabber betrayal were among the factor of their native defeat
I live in the wabash I am proud of the land that I live in
Proud of being Native American!
3:39 "During the mid and late 1870s..."
I think you meant "1780s".
Yeah, historians have deliberately suppressed this crushing defeat.
There is a confusing bit at 3:40. The narrator speaks of “mid- to late 1870ies”. That’s a one hundred years jump from the previous subtitle. Perhaps its a typo and we are actually talking of the mid- to late 1770ies. But to refer to a “cycle of violence” here kind of foes without saying: it’s in the middle of the US War of Independence.
So, what period are we referring to here exactly?
Ok, listening to the rest of the narration, I assume it was an inversion typo: should be “1780ies” rather than “1870ies”.
What about battle of monongahela? 1000 US and English casualties against the French and their native allies.
GREAT VICTORY!!!
Some of these sentences are taken verbatim from the Wikipedia article on this battle. 😢
Not surprisingly, I've never heard of this event. I'm British, but suspect the same applies to most Americans. Military powers always try to brush their defeats under the carpet, hence our history books shy clear of mentioning major victories by peoples such as the Maori and Ashanti. I wish all descendants of these peoples well, and hope they can live in dignity for the future.
British history is replete with mention of defeats. We've even made movies about them. The British don't shy away from defeat, unlike the Americans.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Mostly those would be against other European powers, and even those are usually spun in some way.
As for movies, one of the best is Zulu, but it's not about Isandlwana, is it?
@@unclenogbad1509
Zulu Dawn is about Isandlwana. Peter O'Toole, Bob Hoskins, Burt Lancaster, Denholm Elliot etc.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Yeah, I know that, but it's not the great film that Zulu is. Almost half-hearted, in fact. Typical lacklustre sequel/prequel, and gives no place to Cetewayo's ultimate assessment. I'd say it proves my point, but I know you'll disagree, so how about leaving it at that?
@@unclenogbad1509
How you liked the end product doesn't negate that there was a major film with major actors portraying a major British defeat. This was 1979, just two years on from a Bridge Too Far. There was also The Charge of the Light Brigade in the 1960s.
The British don't shy away from bringing attention to defeats.
Extremely interesting, heroic in one way but absolute tragic that people couldn’t live in harmony. Also history has shown that the US military has to pick a fight to gain ‘something’.
I Thought It was Custer Last Stand?
I was always led to believe that BS too. Custer had no 'last stand'. Him and his cavalry were annihilated.
@@Mistadobalina111 Touche' (smile)
I dont have the numbers on the top of my head, but I've always thought that the Dade Massacre was one of the most decisive and one-sided native american victories.
it was
Fort Washington was "in" and not "near" present day Cincinnati.
Either way... Makes you proud to be American.
Great victory for the Natives but in three years General Wayne shall arrive and commence the battle of Fallen Timbers.
I wonder why they didn't teach this in US history class when I was a kid.
No I have many books about this sometimes you need to learn beyond school, but is not censors you can read about online or go to a library and get a physical copy,
I am direct descendent of Chief Blue Jacket. It was proven in the early 2000s thru dna that Bluejacket was not a Dutch child that was captured by the Shawnee. But was indeed a Full Blood Shawnee. Marmaduke Van Swearingen was not the true-Blue Jacket But was given the name as was custom in that time. he was not captured until in the 1770-time frame. BlueJacket or Weyapiersenwah was war chief "c. 1743-1810" and was the true BlueJacket.
It stands to reason that the American army would suffer much bigger defeats at the hands of indigenous people in the late eighteenth century than they would some eighty years later in the 1870s , when by that later time , sadly , the indigenous people were all but vanquished .
pfff
@DBD - hj7tn : Yeah , that's what I think of Trump's chances too .
ikr its hard to go against cheating democrats@@johnishikawa2200
It wasn't just that the militia were untrained and poorly disciplined, many showed up unarmed, the states raising the men expecting the Federal Government to arm them. This was because the Militia Act of 1792 as amended and the various state militia laws had no enforcing capability. The law mandated that every militiaman own a musket or rifle yet there were no enforcement provisions so that even by 1814, 1000 Kentucky volunteers from the militia showed up in New Orleans in 1814 with no weapons. As far as native auxiliaries, the Continental Army had Mohicans and Delawares acting as scouts and in direct support during the Western campaigns against British, Loyalist and their allied natives, mostly Iroquois, Creek and Cherokee.
Brave red Indians! 💪😎👍
Be good salmon fishin' back then. Native Atlantic salmon.. Huge specimens I would imagine.
natives are the only ones that defeated the U.S. military not once but so many times some aren't recorded are to embarrassing to admit lol. 😅
This event deserves a block buster movie with action scenes like in the movies "the last of the mohicans" or "the revenant"
Basically America's version of Zulu
Even a broke clock is right twice a day👍🏻
Even the Vikings knew in the Year 1000 in Vinland to not trade their superior iron Weapons to the native Americans...
maybe cos the native were smart people they will figure out a way to use a weapon given to them by toher settlers
What does it matter? The Americans won the war. By fair means or foul, despite losing some battles, the Americans won 🏆 that war and all others. The land is ours by right of conquest, something the Indians understood and practiced.
You know ours also includes Native American since they are American citizens, right?
Smallpox biological warfare did most of d conquest
You can not compare the two battles (Wabash vs. Little Big Horn). Little Big Horn was a culmination of two battles to include the Battle of Rosebud against General Crook (1,300 men) 8 days prior to the Little Big Horn (Greasy Grass). 7th CAV had a combined force of 700 men. Both US Army units had a combined force of 2,000 men. The combined force of Lakota, Cheyenne, & Arapaho was more like 20,000 according to the Lakota witnesses (I lived on the Pine Ridge in the late 1970s). Over 300 Men were killed from the 2 US Army Units. They could've easily wiped out both units, however the mission was accomplished by the extermination of the "Son of the morning star" due to his atrocities to their people.
Somewhat minor skirmishes in comparison.
Is this the general that President Washington got so mad at that he was throwing things at him?
👍👍
Braddock's humiliating defeat ?
This event mauled the US Army. It has to be remembered that for so much of American history before WWI and its own Civil War, the United States was quite averse to keeping a large standing army. A distrust of a standing army, even. The Continental Army was gutted after the US won its independence from Britain. The US Army was something like 2500 strong in the 1780s. So the Army losing around 1400 men at the Battle of the Wabash is a big deal.
On a semi-related note to US Army strength at the time and the army losing so much of its strength due to Wabash, the French Revolutionary Wars began in 1792, only a few months after Wabash. The new French government sent diplomats to the USA to garner support. Return the favor, France helped out in the American War of Independence, right? But President George Washington wisely denied the request and prevented any measure of volunteer formations to be raised. Washington kept the US neutral. The US Army was in no shape at all to play with European politics and wars.
France didn't care about America
France was only interested in fighting the British. Purely self interests. And the French Revolution, while noble in theory, was disgusting in practice.
It should be remembered that most of the white soldiers in that battle were poorly trained and cowardly militia, not regulars.
This event lead to the formal creation of the US Army.
In the thumbnail it says: "The battle is also referred as the Battle of a Thousand Slain. It's the US Army's Biggest or worst Defeat in history." Yeah, no. Just in World War II, for instance, there's Bataan/Corregidor and the Battle of Kasserine Pass, both of which were much larger defeats. The Civil War has a lot of examples of battle lost by the U.S. Army that were MUCH larger then this battle. This is just off the top of my head, there are certainly many more.
Always depends how you measure it, by percentage of losses it was biggest. Actual casualty rate was 97% both killed and wounded.
I think they mean percentage wise, as we only had a few thousand in the entire U.S. Army at the time.
as a percentage of our standing military...much more than any you mentioned, 25% gone in 3 hour...nothing remotely compares to this.
When you venture in others domain unfamiliar with your surroundings you are rife for the picking.
Indiana is a pretty interesting place
I feel so proud to be Native American...
lolol
What is there to be proud of?
@@torizo8763the resilience our people have to have gone through all we have been put through and still be here.
@@torizo8763"wHaT iS tHeRE tO bE pRoUD oF"
@@Langside_Sargent You sound offended, You must be a Native American lmao poor you.
I would have thought it was a Civil War battle since southerners born in America are natives.
I wonder if the lesson here is that trained infantry don't do well against tribal fighters in the woods, mountains, swamps, or unfamiliar terrain.
ancient history says otherwise
@ 3:40 they say 1870's but should be 1770's....