A much needed video. In the olden days, before the proliferation of TPG and slabbed coins, there were a number of "BU" marked coins in LCSs that I suspected were actually AU. More good educational content from Ben The Coin Geek!
I think AU58 is a fantastic grade for a careful buyer because there's such a spread between the best ones and the worst ones. Some AU58s have full cartwheel luster and no apparent rub on the high points and very limited marks, but very light and random hairlining in the fields. I have a Standing Liberty Quarter like that and it's high-end for even an AU58. On the other hand, some AU58s show rubbing in the fields as well as on the high points, over 50% of the mint luster is gone, and they look like they were buried in my garden for a couple of years. Those coins are overgraded. Smart buyers will research and buy reference books and learn the difference.
Yeah, it's one of the sort of unfortunate things about grading, I guess... lots of "technical" grades. Maybe an AU57 could be "technically this is an AU58, but it looks like hell"-- same with 53/55 in both directions-- a 54/56/59 could be outstanding examples of otherwise-53/55/58 AU grades
Since some AU58s are so appealing and most MS60s are so ugly it seems hard to justify the price difference between the two on some date/mint mark combinations. Like the 1884-S for instance.
Ben thank you for the very good and educational video . Plus i never get tired of looking at Morgan Dollars in all various conditions . You also have some of the best prices of any Coin Dealer on You - Tube . I Hope everyone has a Great Day .
Thanks so much for detailing the 1887/6 variety because I couldn’t figure out the distinction between a regular strike and the overdate. Gonna check mine out to see if I have one now.
Awesome topic. This is one that's always confused me. Even the majority already knew, it's nice to get some reaffirmation from a pro. Thanks for teaching us! Choice AU Morgans can be so beautiful it makes me wonder if anyone took on that idea for a killer Morgan collection.
That was the most informative explanation I've received in 55+ years of collecting as a hobbyist and taking the time with illustrations was just.......WOW!!!!! Are u in the teaching profession? Great
I dig what you’re saying about light at the 9 o’clock position. On the 1894-o in the OGH, that’s been graded to conservative. Back then PCGS used the breast feathers for main factor without having much knowledge of weak strikes. That’s a strong mint state coin.
That 1887/6 looks really good for a 60. It has a lot of bagmarks (expected) but no MASSIVE gouges and scratches like a lot of 60s do. The eagle's breast is actually clean and the reverse looks good overall. I'd be proud to own that coin and it has to be worth a premium. It MIGHT be graded as cleaned now but it's still a nice coin.
I'm just going to say, and I'm more of a bullion stacker than a coin collector, I think a lot of AU58 coins have better eye appeal than many low grade MS coins. Yea, those bag marks are ugly, IMO.
AU58 is a huge area to find value. There are gorgeous AU58 with almost invisible wear, and then there's obvious worn coins. The trick is finding the gem AU58, which is still the fraction of the price of MS for several years. I never look at MS60/61, but I'll always take a look at 58.
You are not alone, seasoned collectors know this and often guide less experienced ones to get AU 55 - 58 as it may cost less than MS 60- 63 but looks better than the "higher" grade.
@@jamesgoss1860 Once in a while, MS60/61 looks pretty nice-- but it's rare. AU58s are almost always nicer by a whole bunch. Sometimes it seems like there should be some new, separate grade/tier, or something; AU59, maybe (which admittedly does feel a bit silly), or something like a "AU58 Gem" designation. Perhaps even something like AU65-- for the coin that, by all appearances, is a gem, but on a technical level _does_ have that little trace of wear/barely noticed rub on a field or cheek. Not sure why I'm still typing.
The difference between an AU and BU on any coin is the extent of the abrasions or slide marks on the high points, not the scratches or dings or cuts, but abrasions, there is a difference. Morgan's typically were put into bags at the Mint, so there was lots of coin to coin contact in the bags, which caused abrasions from the faces of the coins rubbing together and sliding over each other. A Morgan can have minimal abrasion marks or scuffs on the high points and still be BU. It's when these abrasions actually take metal off the high points of the design over a larger area, such as the hair over the ear or hair above the forehead on the obverse, and the eagle's breast on the reverse, that's when the coin falls into the AU58 category, or lower.
This is what confuses me when it comes to NGC grading ancient coins. How can they possibly tell the difference between environmental damage (“surface grade”) and circulation wear (“circulation grade”)?
That 1894-O is definitely worth a shot. That looks way better than a 55 should look like, nearly uninterrupted luster with very smooth fields. Price jumps $220 from 55 to 58, and over $1000 more from 58 to 60. Do not crack out that 1901. Those lines on the cheek won't get you a MS60.
I'll admit this video wasn't a good example (the MS60 looks quite nice, and the AU58 actually not as nice), but in general, the way to tell an AU58 from an MS60 is that one looks mint state, while the other looks like it was beaten by an ugly stick and then run over.
I am learning to grade right now so thanks for this video! Do you think looking at pcgs photo grade and studying the coins is a good way to learn grading? That’s what I’m doing
I think Ben would agree, but I think he most recommends the OLD Red Book's guidance on this, with coin schematics rather than photos. That's what I recollect but I may be wrong. Hopefully Ben will respond here.
Random Thought: I'm still really confused on how they grade something "Proof" as opposed to "Mint State"?? I can see a modern coin coming out of a proof set getting a proof grade...but, there weren't many proof sets floating around in 1878-1921. I even saw an old coin the other day that was a "Proof 58"? I thought MS/Proof started at 60?? After all these years, grading a coin is still very confusing to me at times!!
#4 of questions that have nothing to do with the video! On your website you have a 1838 Seated Dime in a Accugrade holder. Why don't you crack it out of that holder and send it to PCGS or NGC. You know way more then I do about coins and you can see the coin in person. Where I'm looking at the coin on my cell phone screen. That doesn't really do any favors for coin gradeing. I remember the video you had it in and said somthing about cleaning but I just figured it would hold a higher premium in a 1st party graders holder. I would love to hear your thoughts!!!
That 1894-0 Morgan looks MS from the video, its in one the old green holders, I bet it is MS60, i'd send it in, the old green holders are money makers, there are mostly under graded coins in those old holders, a guy or girl could make a living if he knew how to grade just going through coin shops and shows and picking those out and selling after regrading. There's even a book series written on that subject.
I've been thinking about selling my Morgan Silver Dollar collection. I have over a hundred Morgan's, most of them are AU or BU and in capsuls. I don't want to sell them but I have become caretaker for my parents who both have medical issues. I wanted to ask you what is the best way to sell a collection? I don't even know where to start. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks in advance.
Don’t crack out the Au coin. It will not receive a higher grade. The reason is that it shows signs of circulation on the high points of the reverse. Once those marks exist the coin is forever deemed as less than mint state. Any grader knows and practices this determination no matter what company. Of course you can always submit the coin to a less reputable company and get a bogus grade but why? Buy the coin not the holder still rings true.
Well done, Ben. Probably the best video on single grade difference subtleties I’ve ever watched.
Thanks Tom that means a lot .
A much needed video. In the olden days, before the proliferation of TPG and slabbed coins, there were a number of "BU" marked coins in LCSs that I suspected were actually AU. More good educational content from Ben The Coin Geek!
Excellent video. Thanks Ben! (That 87 7over6...I have never seen one: been looking for years...on all 87 P's and O's)
AU 58 is the very best a circulated coin can be, while MS 60 is the very worst an uncirculated coin can be. I'd take an AU 58 over an MS 60,61 or 62.
I agree.
So deoending on the value if a average coin like mine is 100 bucks a perfectly fine one what it be worth a lot more otr just 200 more
R u high?
It depends on the coin . I’ve seen some nice 61s.
I think AU58 is a fantastic grade for a careful buyer because there's such a spread between the best ones and the worst ones. Some AU58s have full cartwheel luster and no apparent rub on the high points and very limited marks, but very light and random hairlining in the fields. I have a Standing Liberty Quarter like that and it's high-end for even an AU58. On the other hand, some AU58s show rubbing in the fields as well as on the high points, over 50% of the mint luster is gone, and they look like they were buried in my garden for a couple of years. Those coins are overgraded. Smart buyers will research and buy reference books and learn the difference.
Yeah, it's one of the sort of unfortunate things about grading, I guess... lots of "technical" grades. Maybe an AU57 could be "technically this is an AU58, but it looks like hell"-- same with 53/55 in both directions-- a 54/56/59 could be outstanding examples of otherwise-53/55/58 AU grades
Since some AU58s are so appealing and most MS60s are so ugly it seems hard to justify the price difference between the two on some date/mint mark combinations. Like the 1884-S for instance.
That Morgan at 5:45 is beautiful. Favorite out of the bunch. Really nice proof-esque business strike.
Thanks for making this video. You explained it amazing.
I’m kinda surprised a couple wasn’t graded cleaned. By the way great video.
Ben thank you for the very good and educational video . Plus i never get tired of looking at Morgan Dollars in all various conditions . You also have some of the best prices of any Coin Dealer on You - Tube . I Hope everyone has a Great Day .
His prices are excellent
It had a rough night on the way to town…. In the bag
New sub, old vid great information. Thank you 👍
Thanks so much for detailing the 1887/6 variety because I couldn’t figure out the distinction between a regular strike and the overdate. Gonna check mine out to see if I have one now.
Most helpful video Ben. The obverse on that 1st AU 58 looks like it might have been CLEANED(?).
Great topic. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
Awesome topic. This is one that's always confused me. Even the majority already knew, it's nice to get some reaffirmation from a pro. Thanks for teaching us! Choice AU Morgans can be so beautiful it makes me wonder if anyone took on that idea for a killer Morgan collection.
That was the most informative explanation I've received in 55+ years of collecting as a hobbyist and taking the time with illustrations was just.......WOW!!!!! Are u in the teaching profession? Great
Aww shucks- I bet you say that to all the coin geeks.... but seriously - glad it helped. Glad you learned .
Thanks for the tutorial.....always wondered why some coins were graded unc+ and others that i thought looked beeter were graded lower...
Excellent information as always! 👍
Very good topic.
Thanks for the information.
I dig what you’re saying about light at the 9 o’clock position. On the 1894-o in the OGH, that’s been graded to conservative. Back then PCGS used the breast feathers for main factor without having much knowledge of weak strikes. That’s a strong mint state coin.
Excellent video. Thank you.
Key points for detecting slight wear are on the hair above her ear ànd below the Liberty and on the breast feathers.
Cool vid Ben.. I like your thoughts and opinions...
Man that 1901 is nice
Heck of a video
Thanks man that helped
Excellent video, thanks Ben. And Go Sun Devils!
Har har har ! 😂
That was pretty damn good, thanks.
That 1887/6 looks really good for a 60. It has a lot of bagmarks (expected) but no MASSIVE gouges and scratches like a lot of 60s do. The eagle's breast is actually clean and the reverse looks good overall. I'd be proud to own that coin and it has to be worth a premium. It MIGHT be graded as cleaned now but it's still a nice coin.
Understanding tha FLB's on Franklin Halfs. There seems to be amongst grading Co's&dealers a hugh variable when grading
Thank you.
I'm just going to say, and I'm more of a bullion stacker than a coin collector, I think a lot of AU58 coins have better eye appeal than many low grade MS coins. Yea, those bag marks are ugly, IMO.
AU58 is a huge area to find value. There are gorgeous AU58 with almost invisible wear, and then there's obvious worn coins. The trick is finding the gem AU58, which is still the fraction of the price of MS for several years. I never look at MS60/61, but I'll always take a look at 58.
You are not alone, seasoned collectors know this and often guide less experienced ones to get AU 55 - 58 as it may cost less than MS 60- 63 but looks better than the "higher" grade.
@@jamesgoss1860 Once in a while, MS60/61 looks pretty nice-- but it's rare.
AU58s are almost always nicer by a whole bunch.
Sometimes it seems like there should be some new, separate grade/tier, or something; AU59, maybe (which admittedly does feel a bit silly), or something like a "AU58 Gem" designation.
Perhaps even something like AU65-- for the coin that, by all appearances, is a gem, but on a technical level _does_ have that little trace of wear/barely noticed rub on a field or cheek.
Not sure why I'm still typing.
The difference between an AU and BU on any coin is the extent of the abrasions or slide marks on the high points, not the scratches or dings or cuts, but abrasions, there is a difference. Morgan's typically were put into bags at the Mint, so there was lots of coin to coin contact in the bags, which caused abrasions from the faces of the coins rubbing together and sliding over each other. A Morgan can have minimal abrasion marks or scuffs on the high points and still be BU. It's when these abrasions actually take metal off the high points of the design over a larger area, such as the hair over the ear or hair above the forehead on the obverse, and the eagle's breast on the reverse, that's when the coin falls into the AU58 category, or lower.
This is what confuses me when it comes to NGC grading ancient coins. How can they possibly tell the difference between environmental damage (“surface grade”) and circulation wear (“circulation grade”)?
That 1894-O is definitely worth a shot. That looks way better than a 55 should look like, nearly uninterrupted luster with very smooth fields. Price jumps $220 from 55 to 58, and over $1000 more from 58 to 60.
Do not crack out that 1901. Those lines on the cheek won't get you a MS60.
NGC and PCGS's greatest consistency is their inconsistency
I'll admit this video wasn't a good example (the MS60 looks quite nice, and the AU58 actually not as nice), but in general, the way to tell an AU58 from an MS60 is that one looks mint state, while the other looks like it was beaten by an ugly stick and then run over.
I am learning to grade right now so thanks for this video! Do you think looking at pcgs photo grade and studying the coins is a good way to learn grading? That’s what I’m doing
I think Ben would agree, but I think he most recommends the OLD Red Book's guidance on this, with coin schematics rather than photos. That's what I recollect but I may be wrong. Hopefully Ben will respond here.
Thanks for the info!
Random Thought: I'm still really confused on how they grade something "Proof" as opposed to "Mint State"?? I can see a modern coin coming out of a proof set getting a proof grade...but, there weren't many proof sets floating around in 1878-1921. I even saw an old coin the other day that was a "Proof 58"? I thought MS/Proof started at 60?? After all these years, grading a coin is still very confusing to me at times!!
#4 of questions that have nothing to do with the video! On your website you have a 1838 Seated Dime in a Accugrade holder. Why don't you crack it out of that holder and send it to PCGS or NGC. You know way more then I do about coins and you can see the coin in person. Where I'm looking at the coin on my cell phone screen. That doesn't really do any favors for coin gradeing. I remember the video you had it in and said somthing about cleaning but I just figured it would hold a higher premium in a 1st party graders holder. I would love to hear your thoughts!!!
If those were regarded today, I think you would get CLEANED, QUESTIONABLE COLOR, ALTERED SURFACES..ETC.
That 1894-0 Morgan looks MS from the video, its in one the old green holders, I bet it is MS60, i'd send it in, the old green holders are money makers, there are mostly under graded coins in those old holders, a guy or girl could make a living if he knew how to grade just going through coin shops and shows and picking those out and selling after regrading. There's even a book series written on that subject.
I've been thinking about selling my Morgan Silver Dollar collection. I have over a hundred Morgan's, most of them are AU or BU and in capsuls. I don't want to sell them but I have become caretaker for my parents who both have medical issues. I wanted to ask you what is the best way to sell a collection? I don't even know where to start. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks in advance.
Shoot us an email and we can talk more.
staff@oldpueblocoin.com
@@TheCoinGeek ok, will do! I'm just now seeing this so I'll write to you this week!
Don’t crack out the Au coin. It will not receive a higher grade. The reason is that it shows signs of circulation on the high points of the reverse. Once those marks exist the coin is forever deemed as less than mint state. Any grader knows and practices this determination no matter what company. Of course you can always submit the coin to a less reputable company and get a bogus grade but why? Buy the coin not the holder still rings true.
They are much more likely to call a 1884s or 1896o 1886o an au58 instead of ms60 then say a common date like a 1896p
Technically, an AU58 coin can be free of any contact marks, it is just slightly worn. A MS60 will look like the coin was beat from hell and back.
Crack it out! Crack it out! I just had to throw that in there
Comment down below.
Hi bro I have 1977 D mark quarter dollar to sale can u help me
It looks way better than a 55.
So in other words, an AU 58 can actually look better than MS60-62?
My question is why PCGS and NGC will NEVER grade a coin MS60. That's what I want to know....
Coin grading is so whimsical. How in the world do bag-scratched, ugly coins get a MS value? Because the powers in charge say so.
Don't crack them out. They'll all come back cleaned! lol
Yeah read the label 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
One label could AU58 and the other might say MS60.
Heck it might say monkey water moon