I think you are seriously sleeping on one extremely important mythological influence: Surtr, the jötunn of flame who would burn the world come Ragnarök. I mean, he is explicitly linked to the burning of a world tree, to the deaths of gods, and to natural disasters as a whole, while also being associated with the freezing cold (what with his race, the jötunn, commonly being refered to in English as the ice giants). The only things he doesn't have in common with the Fell God is the cyclops thing, which is easily explained by the Fell God having multiple influences. But other than that, the connections are much stronger between the Fell God and Surtr than they are with, for example, the Cyclopes.
I don't think that the thorns are what caused the huge frozen giants to be missing limbs. It seems to me that the missing limbs are an indicator of how hard the giants were fighting, cutting off their own limbs mid-battle and burning them up as a sacrifice to summon the strength of the Fell God, much like we see the fire giant do in the boss fight.
@@Gaming04-o7uAh, so Godfrey causes the burning of the tree by mistake, when fighting the fire giants he cut off their limbs only for them to summon the Fell God truly through all of the limbs for short time, long enough for Fell God to break Godfrey Axe and burn the Erdtree, triggering Marika to send him away
One thing that should certainly be noted is that the Flame harnessed in "Flame, cleanse me" can cure Scarlet Rot, which could only ever be stalled by Miquella, and could never once be stopped by anything from the Golden Order This implies that the Fell God's power is greater than the powers of Rot, or that it holds some sort of power over it, such as the flowing water-like movements of the blue-dancer swordsman who taught Malenia
@freedomofspeechenjoyer5443 That rot is Rot without a connection to the actual source of it. The Lake of Rot is connected to the literal Outer God of Rot, and the Haligtree has Malenia sitting literally next to its roots. Comparing Caelid to either of those two is like looking at a forest fire at the edge where the flames have barely reached, compared to the actual wildfire itself
@@somedudewithakeyboard5388 By the same token then, the "Flame, Cleanse Me!" incantation is only curing the affliction of rot - nothing suggests that the Fell God is "more powerful" than the God of Scarlet Rot. The Fire Giant can be afflicted with Scarlet Rot after all. I do think it's significant that these powers interact in this way though - certainly referencing the smoldering walls and torch bearers of Caelid, but it makes me think that the powers of the Outer Gods sorta cancel each other out to a degree. Like, without having dominion over the Elden Ring, their powers are on a level playing field vying for races or people of renown to champion their cause. It's also about the intent behind the material or technique - "Flame, Cleanse Me!" asks to be healed and cleansed. The Fell God may be one who takes sacrifice and encourages violence but has the decency to answer to help. The God of Scarlet Rot has no such niceties.
My interpretation of Marika sparing the last giant is that the Flame of Ruin *needs* to be tended to by a Fire Giant, or else it will run rampant and out of control.
@Kyle Lyre is correct, it looks like a indentation, in the hammer, super similar to the one eye. Mining tool of stonedigger trolls used to crack bedrock. Trolls are descended from the giants, and these were supposedly once used as ceremonial smithing tools. In the distant past, smithing was considered divine. Always wondered what lore specific data exsists for this hammer. Being buffable had to be intentional.
I wonder if this has any implications on the qualities of troll-smithing. The witch hunter has a line in regards to the weapons Iji created would later prove resistant to the ravages of the rot's blight. Could this be an ember of the fell-god's power in smithing used by trolls that still retain such ancient knowledge? Or could it be something else?
"Long-lived" is how Zamor Knights are described. Numen as well. Marika is of the Numen race also. Ranni was taught by a "snow witch" likely called Renna.
The Fire Monks almost feel like an inverse of the Night's Watch from Game of Thrones. They're a collection of both dedicated warriors and outcasts, keeping watch against an ancient threat in the far north. Only, instead of protecting Westeros from the cold and dark of the White Walkers, they're guarding the Lands Between from the threat of a flame so powerful it could burn the Erdtree.
Agreed!! Alot of inversed parallels from asoiaf. Carians and martells...moon and sun respectively.. unconquered by the throne, but came into the fold.thru marriage.
@sydposting this might not be the place, but definitely alot parallels from grrm's asoiaf..the direwolves and starks is to empyreans and their shadows. 3 eyed raven and close parallel to godwyn the undead and his eyes accross the lands..radagon and the misbegotten with red locks to asoiaf's kings bastards, erdtree and weirwood tree both seemingly needs blood as nourishment.
There are architectural similarities between the giants' forge, golems, divine towers, and dynastic ruins. There are also associations between the Mountaintops and Mt. Gelmir, from red glintstone, to the burning of the erdtree, to bronze metal, to fingercreepers. The flame of the fell god is very similar to full moon sorcery, evoking not only fire but also the sun, which is overshadowed by the erdtree. Some crucial element to this portion of the story is missing.
@@namethatgamess1487there is a connection between the fire giants and the civilization that built the ancient ruins of Rauh. Many of the structures contain the exact same imagery.
@@Lakefront_Khan We are so lucky to have such creative and hard working people, with different styles and approaches, there is no reason to bash anyone. I personally love the presentation, voice, ideas and long format of Smough. I also love the conciseness and cleanness of Vaati. You can appreciate both. They are humans, with lives and their own schedules, they do not exist to produce content at the pace you desire. Also, the quality of Vaati's latest videos have undoubtedly and dramatically improved from his earlier videos. You can enjoy both, or just not watch someone if you have a problem, but throwing shade like that is just entitled, rude and bizarre behaviour.
Excellent scholarly work my friend. Gideon has competition, indeed. I really appreciate the quality of your shots in game to visually connect your thorough dive through the lore. A grade or two above the other videos on ER lore. Sometimes I don't agree 100% with your theories but they always make me think. But still, like 95% of the stuff you present is so well backed up. Just great work. Keep it up!
I have a theory about the knights of zamor: I think they were worshippers of the ice dragons when they had dominion over the lands between, and I think the banished knights were similar but came from a different region(Possibly near stormveil). The reason I think this is because I mixed and matched zamor armor with the banished knight armor, and I noticed that the plate pieces are almost completely matching in color, almost as if they were crafted from the same metal.
There is more. The Icrerind Hatchet seems to come from them as well, and it would explain locations of the errant Zamor we find outside the Mountaintops.
Another interesting link I found to them and the dragons is this: The zamor armor states that they have been fighting the giants since "Time immemorial", the other time that phrase is used is on the Old Lords Talisman, which states that farum azula has been slowly crumbling since time immemorial
Not to mention the mysterious “storm lord” who ruled stormveil castle, was said to be in alliance with the ancient dragons so it would make sense long ago that the Zamor were of worship over the ice dragons. To prove my point I direct you to the fact that the banished knights happen to be guarding places of significance to dragons fighting with dragon spells. The dragon communion which holds the corpse and magic of dragons. Then Pharam Azula, the kingdom of dragons.
I just gotta say, I’ve been watching your stuff forever, and always dug your videos, but you’ve been absolutely killing it with the Elden Ring content. Honestly, Future Press should reach out to you next time they do a From Soft book that includes lore. I’m looking forward to their upcoming Elden Ring books, but you’ve set the bar pretty damn high.
@@SmoughTown Kudos, because you picked up where Vaatividya failed tremendously. The rate he's getting lore content out is laughable, despite being one of if not the most popular from soft lore historian. He has the financial backing of Patreon, ad revenue, and sponsorships, but can't actually deliver content in the first place, let alone good. I've found out more about Elden Ring from you than from him, and I'm glad it's paying off. I remember watching your Sekiro videos because of a similar reason as mentioned above. Keep on keeping on, and may we bask in the radiance of the Haligtree together forever. Also... Just got to the consecrated Snowfield a few days ago and I'm wondering if we can expect something on that zone in the future...? It's so peaceful and mysterious, but also terrifying. I'm reminded of the atmosphere from The Thing.
@@Lakefront_Khan he has his book to take care too if i remember. Also Vaati's cinematic presentation is ahead of everyone else's i think , that might lead to him having to take more time . But yeah he's no longer the best for pure lore . also aiya you guys are so toxic with these comparison. just watch whoever you like without talking shit about other creator
I love how these outer gods are (to some degree) linked to numbers. We have the fell God, represented by one eye, the greater will, represented by the two fingers and the flame of freny, represented by the three fingers.
I think some of the other outer gods also have symbolism with the number three. Malenia has to bloom three separate times to become the Goddess of Rot, and the Formless Mother is communed with through a three-pronged trident, which also serves as the symbol of the Mohgwyn Dynasty. Mohg also starts his “nihil” countdown at 3.
@@bennygohome4576 incorrect, hackers such as Zullie have found that he has a fifth head stump behind all the rest, thereby he originally had five heads, the Talisman just doesn't have enough space to depict the fifth head without asymmetry, and in his case since he was the first Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree means we can assume his two remaining heads are meant to symbolize the two fingers and his three decapitated heads for the three fingers
Dude, you have been absolute on this content from the word go. I was not expecting to find someone who got into the Hawkshaw level of detail and bring it all about so quickly. Dont you go burning yourself out working at this pace, the content is absolutely fantastic.
I really appreciate taking the time to dissect the thorn sorcerers, I did sort of see them as a dark reflection of regular sorcerers but I was mainly preoccupied with what the Blood Star could be and why thorn sorcery requires faith to wield My guess is a malevolent star that, instead of guiding humans, subjugates them and demands sacrifice to use its power. Perhaps instead of astrologers who work to communicate with the stars, the Blood Star itself communicates with the guilty
I think the Blood star is another name for the formless Mother, which I think takes the form of a red Nebula (which counts as a star in Elden Ring), like the one surrounding Mogh palace.
I had a small theory about the impaled giants. Given that there is some evidence that Marika herself was present at the battle, I thought that perhaps she commanded the very roots of the Erdtree to impale the giants. Just what I thought when I finally reached the mountaintop myself.
The image of marika just ripping the battle field apart with thorns makes me really sad we never get to fight her. Her using the roots of the erdtree itself to fight you sounds so cool. I know Radagon and her are the same people but I still would have liked to fight Marika. Don’t get me wrong the final fight was awesome regardless.
@@loftwingheropon2743 Same, I was thinking/hoping that Marika and Radagon would be a sort of stance switch boss with different movesets for each. Seeing some of Marika’s incantations in battle would’ve been sick.
They look as tho they came from above and the giants for the most part seem to have been running away from the tree when struck so im more inclined to believe it was branches from above that rained down spearing all the giants
Which reminds me of the initial information on Elden Ring. Which led you to believe you could actively side with the one of the warring factions in-game and influence the outcome.
I know a lot of Fromsoft games could theoretically go off the rails if you could at least speak fragmented sentences, but Elden Ring especially is awash with hostile beings that are established as being sapient and sentient, alongside having yet to lose their minds and go feral. Imagine the sorry state of the guy who has to account for people who want to actually point Malenia in Mohg's direction instead of stripping naked and trying to take her without taking a hit.
I feel like there is some connection between the thorn sorcerers and the formless mother. The fact that where Mohg chose to settle is home to blood and fire, and his abilities leaves burning blood behind. Blood and fire being something we see with thorn sorcerers
I don't think they're connected. The Thorn Sorcerers apparently see the "Blood Star", and their incantations only use blood. The Formless Mother communes through cursed blood, and sets blood aflame. And, unlike a star, she is supposedly formless. They seem too different. I think the Blood Star might be another Outer God or force that we just don't know much about, like the Scarlet Rot outer God
I’ve always assumed the formless mother and blood stat were the same. Thorn sorceries and blood fire channel faith and both revel in wounds, especially self inflicted. The albinaurics tainted by the formless mother release red thorns from within.
Maybe this is just my interpretation. But i thought that the Troll's chest cavity was the work of the golden order. If the fell god exists in and jumps to different giants upon the death of one of its vessels. It makes sense that the order would gouge or remove the face/eyeball from the trolls who sided with them. So that the fell god doesnt jump to one of them and put the erd tree at risk. By sneaking behind enemy lines. In fact that may have been a requirement to prove their loyalty upon their betrayal of the fell god.
You have replaced vaati as my lore guy for elden ring. I still like his videos, but your long form lore deep dives are fantastic. Thanks for all you do in these vids and keep up the hard work bro 💪
@@matterking1 he's also only done 4 elden ring videos since it was released, while this guy has like 15, most at least 20 minutes. Vaati seems burnt out
@@HavikXIII He’s literally trying to widen the scope of his content and collaborating with video game cinematographer’s but yeah go ahead and be a slug brain
First off, wonderful video :) I don't think the Fell God is solely a deity of "destruction". It seems that the Fell God is right in the middle of the Frenzy Flame God and the Golden Order, in that the Golden Order perpetuates strict ideals of "beauty/order/growth" that never ends and the Frenzy Flame is obsessed with straight up destruction with nothing after it. One eternally stagnant and the other eternally empty. To me the Fell God is a cyclical being. Destruction precedes creation, so the flame breaks down materials and then they're reforged into something new. It's a sacrificial god in that one cannot earn something without first giving something, hence the fire giant offering his leg for power. In this context they might oppose the Zamor because ice and cold is a halting of this process, think the cold death of the universe when we reach absolute zero in the end, though this may be a bit of a reach. As a side note, I find the relationship between the Fell God and the Frenzy Flame to be interesting... I have this head cannon that Marika didn't truly kill the Fell God. We can see that the Fell God has the ability to live on in his subjects and perhaps even body parts themselves, or maybe simply living flesh. I wonder if the Three Fingers was a body part of the Fell God, the last of its physical representation in the Lands Between, and Marika couldn't completely kill it. So she locked it away underneath the capital before she exiled the merchants. It stayed alive in the dark, festering and obsessing over vengeance until it mutated into something else and infected the merchant guild. A God that lost the creation aspect of its being and was left with only destruction which split completely from whatever deity still remained in the still-living fire giant, so they're related but separate. Even the eyes of the Fell God and those infected with Frenzy Flame are similar though not identical. Granted, I have no idea if the timeline for this would match up at all but it's a fun thought to entertain in my mind.
I was also thinking about the possible connection between the fell god and the flame of frenzy. I’m not entirely sure what I think of it, but I’m starting to theorize that you’re right that the fell god is in between the order of the Erd tree and the chaos of the flame of frenzy but I think the three fingers are separated from a hand that used to have 5 thus creating both the two fingers and the three (this being the hand of the fell god). This would mean that the rebirth aspect of the fell god was incorporated into the order of the erdtree while the destructive aspect was cast aside. If this theory is right then it would explain the origins of radagon and how he is a part of Marika. By absorbing this part of the fell god, she could become a more powerful source of creation and order while subordinating her enemy. It would also explain why her other half is a mortal enemy of the Erd tree, a fire giant in the form of radagon, which is otherwise very hard to explain.
I just want to add on to why I think it’s clear that you’re right about the fell god being cyclical between order and destruction because I forgot to put this in my previous comment. The act of smithing is very closely related to the fire giants and the fell god (even the giant’s flame looks like it’s designed as some sort of giant smithy, but maybe that’s just me). And smithing is obviously an act of creating something by destroying something else - you beat a piece of metal into oblivion and out pops a sword or you melt something down, destroying it, in order to cast it, thereby creating something else. This is the clearest evidence that you’re right I think.
@@schonmp Long reply, sorry: The idea that the Fell God essentially "birthed" both the Frenzied Flame and the Golden Order is something I've thought about. But the timeline and the way Marika went about subduing the Fell God and its followers makes me less likely to go with this hypothesis. If the Elden Beast didn't literally fall out of the sky and bring the Golden Order to the Lands Between I'd be inclined to agree, but in this case it seems a literal supply drop from an Outer God that saw the Lands Between as an opportunity to spread its influence. The Golden Order and Elden Beast strike me as meddlers; they think they know best and inflict that upon other Outer Gods and their members. However, your statement about Radagon and Marika is very interesting... the idea that the rebirth/recycle aspect was stolen from the Fell God is extremely fascinating. But I think the Golden Order's trait of "re-using" materials was inherent to it to begin with - just look at the bodies on the Erdtree's roots and the pots that transport corpses; even in death the old were never truly discarded they were just turned into mulch. The Golden Order is eternally growing and spreading but it refuses to prune itself in its arrogance, hence why I think Godwyn's body was able to infect the tree and bring True Death to the Lands Between. But here's my question for you: Do you think the fact that Radagon becoming a part of her allowed her to destroy the Elden Ring due to his nature as a fire giant (assuming he was absorbed as opposed to his inherent existence)? Or would she have had the ability to do it all along? She could obviously move aspects of the Elden Ring around, she shoved the Death Rune into Maliketh after all, but she didn't destroy it. Or is it impossible to destroy the Runes at all? I want to say it is because the image of the Elden Ring in Crumbling Azula has a LOT more detail than the ring we are presented with, and maybe the aspect of Destruction was destroyed or excised by the Golden Order's God.
@@izzy4bitney (sorry for the length, but you raised some great points and questions) I didn’t mean to give the impression that the Fell God birthed both the Golden Order and the Frenzied Flame. Rather, I think the Frenzied Flame came from the Fell God directly by being what was left over after the aspect of rebirth/creation was taken by Marika and incorporated into the *already existent* Golden Order. This takes the power that Marika saw as valuable while discarding the parts she didn’t want. I haven’t seen any mention of the two fingers or their Empyreans being around before the war of the giants (though there isn’t exactly a detailed record on this) but if there is such a record (and it’s reliable), that would be strong evidence against the theory. The idea is that the Elden Beast would have arrived but been limited in power given that it was in a new land so it would seek to strengthen itself and it’s followers by taking powers from whatever it could that aligns with its image of order (that being, as you say, constant growth). It can take these from the Fell God by dividing it in two as represented by dividing the giant hand in two. This would draw a link between the two fingers and the giants in a way that would explain why it is always a child of Radagon that is chosen as an Empyrean even though Godwyn was “the Golden” one (unless Godwyn is an empyrean and I forgot about it, I think he’s always just mentioned as a demigod). It would be a way for the Fell God to still influence things in concert with the Golden Order even while being greatly reduced in power. Also, the notion of a *new* god doesn’t make sense given the Golden Order’s resistance to any kind of destruction. So, it seems like it must be an outside influence. As for your question about the Elden Ring, I think that incorporating Radagon into her was necessary for her to break the Elden Ring (and all the imagery is of Radagon doing the smithing/breaking, not Marika). I think even if she had the strength to do it, it would go against her very nature as the Goddess of order and stability, so the source of her strength would have resisted such an attempt and she’d be unable to do it on her own. I’m not sure that the runes can be completely destroyed though, even the frenzied flame would only “destroy” them by burning everything down into the same primordial stuff. So, they’d still be there in a way, they just wouldn’t be distinguishable from anything else. And when the new beginning started again, it would inevitably lead to the same types of cycles/runes popping up again. And for the greater complexity we see in Farum Azula, I *think* that has to do with the death rune having been removed from the Golden Order’s version of the Elden Ring. As you point out, removed but not destroyed. I imagine that other runes having to do with destruction and disorder would also have been removed, at least from the iconography used by the Golden Order if not removed from the ring itself. Also, whoever has them seem to be able to “cast them aside” like Ranni did. I doubt this means destroy, but more likely just hide away or throw on the ground. If this happened at some point before the rise of Marika, those extras in Farum Azula could simply be lost somewhere but still in the world (and so still have its effect).
I love that ranni’s family give the trolls more respect then marika and the golden order did. Also please do a lore video on the dragons! Please do a video on radagon AKA the puppet of marika and the greater will.
I'm honestly surprised at how much information we can glean about the Fire Giants and the Fire Monks considering the latter is a faction who don't have a huge presence in the Lands Between, but the fact that they're looking for Adan is why they're in Liurnia makes great sense. Also, I feel for the Fire Giant too. Poor dude is last of his race, stuck on the mountaintop surrounded by the corpses of his kin, and with a gammy leg to boot. When I got to his second phase and saw his leg break I was like 'Sorry! Sorry! Sorry!'
@@SmoughTown Even when you first see him on the mountain top, with that pot lid thing on his back and staring up towards the forge, he has the energy of a guy who just absolutely hates his life....probably the only break he got was whenever some witless Tarnished or other intruder came along.
I first found your channel after your Godskin Hunt video, let's just say I subscribed right away! I'm so glad you have continued to stay passionate about Elden Ring Lore and have continued to provide only the highest quality videos!
My guy, honestly, my Saturday mornings rule because of you. And then when im grinding in the blood area in moghwyn, my wife literally goes “are you listening to the elden ring guy you like?” And im just sitting there vibing 🫡
I'm not gonna lie, I'm curious about Gransax (the giant dragon in the capital), if the dragon attacked the Erdtree before the Shattering, then why can't we see its body in the trailer for the game where they show the armies marching on the capital in the Shattering?
might be the same reason some enemies are not in the same place they are in the trailer I asked Saint Riot why some enemies were in stormveil in the trailer that don't belong and he told me fromsoft has done that a few times in the past for the soul series because it looks cooler for the trailers
I would love to see more about Gransax. Maybe in DLC? Probably not enough info on him in game to make anything yet, but a giant stone dragon in the capital city really makes ya wonder...
37:45 my interpretation of the thorny branches has something to do with the Formless Mother. Alberich's altered hat has a red glintstone in it and the Briars of Punishment spell states that he discovered the "Blood Star," which is the source of aberrant sorceries like the briar spells, and Esgar's Great Hood item description reads, "Yes, surely this is the moon that young Rennala discovered." Esgar is the priest of Blood, and I think this moon he's referring to is the Blood Star that drove Alberich crazy. The Blood Star being the Formless Mother, just like how this setting's Jupiter is the Fell God. Maybe the Formless Mother wanted the giants gone so that she could have better influence/monopoly over blood flame? It would also explain why the branches are trident shaped like Mohg's spear.
I love your videos so much man! It’s like being told a nice story, one you’re familiar with but can’t remember all the details of and is still somewhat interpretative. Great work as always!
A couple of things relating to Radagon’s giant heritage. First of all, I think the reason Marika left one giant alive was so that the fell god had a place to reside, with the fire giant dead it’s not unreasonable to assume it would look for a new host, possibly finding purchase in Radagon, which would be very bad for the golden order. Second, I do wonder why one of Radagon’s only weaknesses is fire if he has giant blood.
Amazing work SmoughTown. Currently going through Elden Ring on twitch (still haven't finished it yet) there is just so much to take in and your videos have been very helpful in understanding the events that we witness. Can't wait for more!
You’re a machine SmoughTown, the frequency, length, and quality of the content your producing is almost unbelievable. So glad Ratatoskr introduced you to us. Keep up the good work and make sure to take some downtime from time to time comrade!
I like the description of the giant hammer, where it states early humans were much stronger than current humans in the Lands Between. If Hoarah Loux is the prime example of a peak ancient warrior, then it explains why he's so huge and stronk.
You really deserve more recognition and subscribers. The quality, insight, editing, research and healthy speculation are all notable and deserving of praise. I am happy to be a fan of both Elden Ring and your incredible lore videos. I wish you consistent success throughout your RUclips career.
I really like your videos I have hundreds of hours invested in this game and still haven't found everything there is to find it would be great to see a video on the ancient dragon keep up the good work
its a good day when you see a new hour+ smoughtown elden ring lore vid. i'll be rewatching this one for the next couple weeks for sure. i love the fire giants and wish so badly we got to learn more about them
One thing I've always been curious about was the even bigger giant corpses in the Mountaintops. The ones you both see in the Mountaintop of the Giants, along with Caelid too. Were they dead before the war with the Fire Giants? Were they preexisting before the Fire Giants and the Age of the ErdTree? They don't seem to have the Fell God residing in their chest so they might have been a different race of giants entirely?? It's weird I don't see anyone online talking about the huge corpses that are 3x bigger than the average Fire Giant! Love your videos dude, you put so much effort in these videos and it definitely shows. Helps me pick up the little things when replaying the game over again!
Bit late but, my personal theory is that once upon a time the mountain tops of the giants and Caelid were linked by a land bridge. That’s why we see giants skeletons in Caelid and how ice Dragons who are modern dragons ended up ruling the mountains despite their originator, Greyoll being in Caelid.
@@sceptile6375 True I can definitely see that. But weren't dragons literally dominating the world before all other species? Kinda like ds3? So I'd make some sense for there to be straggling Dragons in each region right? Kinda like Kalameet in ds1 and Dark Eater Midir in ds3. Just super old ragged dragons still surviving through the years. And I feel like those even bigger giants predate the Dragons possible. It looks like there corpse is deep beneath the Mountains. Which if they do environmental storytelling well enough. It'd be like digging up ancient fossils. I wish they had any mention of the Giant remains in the game.
@@unattractable145 what you say about dragons is true but I believe that is in the context of ancient dragons. When speaking about modern dragons the only item descriptions mentioning the history of ancient dragons (that I’m aware of, there are a lot that I might not know) say Greyoll was the first dragon (probably meaning modern dragon) and Borealis’s mist (Ice dragon ruled the mountains). The implication that I took from this is that these two area’s (which in the modern era aren’t connected in the slightest) are where the modern dragon’s began. P.S. bit of a ideal theory that’s been rattling around in my head but what if the bridge was Faram Azula before it got displaced in time or whatever happened to it.
@@sceptile6375 that would make sense actually I understand now. Like the modern dragons are just a different breed of dragons. Like different types of species of reptiles. And also that could make sense actually because Farum Azula exist near the Cliffside of both those places. And it looks very Greek with its architecture and design. Definitely could of been a meeting place that connected 2 places. Kind of like a meeting grounds of the land.
I don't know why I keep rewatching this particular video. All of your videos are great, I just keep coming back to this one every now and then. Thank you for the great video!
Incredible video. I would eventually like to hear your take on Marika and Radagon's history. Did they start out separate and fuse later? Was radagon just a part Marika reborn with the orange amber? What were the motivations we can discern with all the potential propaganda and unreliable narrators. It's a whole can of worms that I think would make for a great video
That would be interesting. In my opinion, Radagon was a portion, or aspect, of Marika that was separated to allow for her to better command her armies. He was bound to her body once more "after" or a little before the twins conception or birth (we have no idea if they simply combined their essences to create the twins, since they are godly in nature, or "did the nasty"). Edit: thinking some more, Radagon as an aspect would've had to have been separated from Marika before the war against the giants, because I'm pretty sure the "curse" from the fire giants that changed the pigment of Radagon's hair. Red is mentioned as being connected to the Fell God, and the giants, leading to Radahn and Malenia having red hair like their father
The relationship of the fire giants with the Erdtree is very reminiscent of the Jotun and Aesir of Norse mythology. Both were mortal enemies due to the Jotun being the original greater force of the world, as well as being prophesied to help bring about the end of the gods, specifically the fire giant Surtr bringing Ragnarok to Asgard. The cherry on top being that several Aesir gods are also descended from the Jotun, such as Thor and Loki.
A little bit of a shame that you did not reference Surtr and the Fire Giants of Norse myth. They also seem to be a pretty big inspiration, especially given the burning of Yggdrasil which the Fire Giants' god is supposed to cause at the climax of Ragnarok. I do agree that Balor was a significant inspiration for the Fell God of the Giants as well, but that seems like a significant source to miss out on citing. Also worth noting: I believe Tarnished Archaeologist is correct when he suggests the Primordial Giants probably first had a civilization before the arrival of the Golden Star (and would go further than he in suggesting there's a good likelihood that that was the calamity which brought the civilization to an end, as well), after which I believe it would take the lesser Fire Giants a long time to properly repopulate and reorganize into a coherent people, up in the mountaintops. Down south, the Beastmen and Ancient Dragons would build Farum Azula, and then Grayoll would precipitate the birth of the lesser dragons, leading to the birth of the Ice Dragons thereafter, before the Fire Giants were able to get their act together and kick said dragons off the mountaintops, suggesting a truly colossal timescale for the bounce back which followed. (Also, there was obviously a significant gap between when the Golden Star fell and when the Erdtree grew.) It's also, I should say, quite probable that the Beastmen independently discovered forging after an epoch of using stone tools, since they seem to have made items of gold, then bronze, then iron; whereas the Fire Giants and their ancestors seem to have immediately started with Meteoric Iron at the behest of their god.
Great video, just one thing: the cyclops aren’t evil beings in Greek mythology, quite on the contrary they are the ones that forged Zeus’s lightning bolts and Poseidon’s trident, they were a key component in Zeus defeating his father and becoming king of the universe so yeah definitely not evil
I have been waiting soooooo long for someone with a RUclips channel to connect the Blood Star to Mogh’s formless mother and bring up that Alberich is a primeval sorcerer with his red replaced with red glintstone for so long. Please look at his altered helm, you very nearly brought me to tears lol….
Never really thinking about the flame monks or the influence of the flame or giants in general, I think of all your videos this one surprised me the most and gave me a lot of appreciation for the flame monks as a faction. Very interesting lore and you do a great job putting it all together. Well done.
It’s interesting they mention that all giants have red hair for there’s a rumor that there was once a tribe of cannibal giants named the Saiduka who lived in the Utah area of America and that they were all wiped out by the Paiute tribe. Ironically the giants were all killed off using fire to smoke out their caves and even burn them. I wonder if there’s a connection.
While thats interesting it would be unlikely most japanese people would be aware of niche native american legends so id think its unlikely but far from impossible
Just finished the video and yet again another tremendously enjoyable listen. Each one of these videos have been better than the last, and I'm glad you're having as much fun making them as we are watching and listening to them. Keep up the good work!!
i don't know what kind of dark sorcery SmoughTown performs to produce this kind of quality longform content at such a fast rate but i am very glad of it. one thing the giants have left me thinking of a lot lately is what connection, if any, the fire giants of the mountaintop have to the much larger, seemingly much longer-dead giants found as partially buried skeletons all across the lands between, perhaps they are their ancient ancestors they devolved from, just as the trolls devolved from fire giants
Honestly the fire giant we meet shouldn’t be the thing we use to represent all fire giants. Since the one we meet was tortured and in slaved and forced to protect the cauldron. It’s likely that the fire Giants were peaceful society that mostly kept to themselves and living peacefully with the stars but that change when they went to war with the golden order.🐱
the best elden ring lore RUclips channel there is, and the only one I trust other than vaatividya. I love that your videos always branch out to other topics, it makes the video feel far more complete than some of the other channels that make surface-level 20 minute videoa
I dont think that leg sacrifice is god being evil. Its the god of flame and flame needs fuel it is its nature. Every other god needs something in return as well. Greater will craves souls, formless mother blood etc.
Counter point, the god of flame is evil within the story’s rhetorical argument as the dominant divine authority of the setting (the one with the greatest application of violence) declared it evil and thus it is evil. Now if the god if flame wins dominion then what it deems is good is good and what is evil is evil.
@@shadowofhawk55 we are not taking politics into account, this theory is purely hypothesized based on human moral principles. According to politics in Lands Between, Greater Will is divine and good and the Fell God is not. According to Basic morality, both of them commit pretty atrocious acts (Greater Will literally buried alive few hundred merchants) so I'd say they are on the same level in objective morality, judging their past actions. It may even be that the Greater Will has proven worse than the Formless Mother and Fell God since it had more time to act according to its nature and cause more harm.
@@secretname2670 When you have multiple beings all capable of rewriting reality as we know each of these things can do it becomes a game of politics humanity simply lacks the power to influence it. The reason we have an objective morality in the real world is because there’s only one supreme being who does not need to compete.
@@shadowofhawk55 I'd argue that in real life, there is no objective morality, because not all things can be objective, ex; which way is it better to let a person die by - euthanasia or cancer that they have. Digression aside, just because politics in the lands between are the easiest to understand, does not mean we should discredit the notion of there being an absolute good and an absoulte evil, to which we can instinctially compare the gods of Lands Between, which though hard to systematize, profides a pretty neutral field concerning all of the deities that Fell God, Greater Will and Blue Moon are, as they are morally neutral based on what have they done so far, as it is never an evil act for the sake of itself, usually instead they perform in the benefit of at least something besides themselves which I would consider good.
Wasn't there an item description that stated that Marika was cursed with red hair like the giants? I thought that the reason why Radagon has that hair was because in order for Marika to cure herself of the curse she split herself in two creating Radagon and leaving him with the cursed red hair.
MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD. My theory is that Radagon isn't actually part giant at all, and was simply cursed by the fire giants due to being an extension of Marika. Why? Well, Radagon's Scarseal can be located on the Ancient Hero of Zamor; likely a reward given to the Hero due to duty rendered. If this is the case then it could be implied that Radagon was the one who approached the ancient Zamorians and rewarded them in kind. Radagon at this time was likely blonde, like his other half -- he might not have known who he was; this depends on if Radagon/Marika had separate bodies at one part like D and his Brother, or are the opposite, two souls one body. Note; that if Radagon is Marika and their bodies were never separate at all; then it's likely he came from her and is only a male version. If this is true, and honestly seems the less confusing of the lot. Then Radagon is just a Numen (Nox*) -- given his knowledge of the Nox, celestial dew etc, this is also likely. Being part of the orchestration of their giant's destruction, and being part of Marika (or at the very minimum a demi-god during this time) he was cursed by the Fell God. Why was he cursed? Because Radagon was likely at the top of the mountain - where the Fell God's influence is most powerful - while Marika is in the capital and protected the ErdTree. Radagon's curse could have been the very thing that Marika cursed the last giant with; that he would forever be duty-bound to his religion. Radagon is forever bound by duty to the Golden Order. It could be said that the curse of the red hair is something that passes down to his children causing destruction within them. Ranni killed herself, but her body was mollified (burned). Rykard was seduced by a giant snake, eaten alive and then went on to live within a very fire mountain. Radahn took pride in his hair and taught his men fire arts, only for him to be destroyed from the inside by Scarlet Rot (Note if you roll in Scarlet Rot your hair turns red). Come to think of it, all of Radagon's children ended up cursed; there's not one that didn't escape it - regardless of hair colour. Radagon is simply cursed and so is anyone who comes from his loins -- they have the tendency to destroy themselves by their own actions. TLDR: Radagon was a part of the Giant War and blonde, he approached the Ancient Zamorians for their aid against the giants. The Fell God knew who Radagon was and thus cursed him with the same type of curse that was set on the Last Giant - that he was forever bound by the duty to keep the golden order aflame. The curse continues and plagues all of his children in some way or form.
Has there been any good theories regarding the giant corpses in Caelid? They absolutely dwarf the fire giant and are, at this point, one of the most tantalizing details in the game. I almost don't want an answer, the idea of these cyclopean bodies rotting away in a blighted landscape with no explanation at all is wonderfully mystifying .
The fire giant boss is the final of his species but never mentioned to be anything else, we do not know if it is a teen fire giant or an eldar it’s quite possible the entire fight is with a young orphaned tantrum having individual. Another note, without black smithing no known legend could occur as no fight can be won without a weapon (except the chad himself Godfrey who needs no weapon.)
@@mehqahto-and-his-uncanny-u4695 in terms of smithing maybe the erdtree worshippers realised they couldn’t fight without smithing so they used it as a necessary evil
Another amazing piece. I have some theories to add! 1. The manifestation of the Fell God may have been the once-revered Sol, now much dimmed and eclipsed by the powerfully large moon and the canopy of the Erdtree, which presumably started off smaller and grew in Marika's care. Thus she in a way could be said to have slain the Sol deity that now presents as the Fell God. It's probably just as likely that there was an actual monster, but the lore implications and symbolism on this is fun to think about. 2. The Mountaintops may have been much lower in elevation than we now see them. There is much evidence in geology and visual storytelling around gravity magic that would indicate an ability to jut great pieces of land upwards towards the sky. We see these formations first in Liurnia where the Golden Order has waged war against the Carian Royals. There are even large portions of the map that seem to have changed with new cliffs being added to block our path to Leyndell. Then we also see it with Mt. Gelmir, which is entirely made out of jutting spires and has a gravity beast guarding the summit. Perhaps the gravity mages of Leyndell formed this mountain as a way to sever ties and block the threat of the traitor, Rykard. The ability to terraform could also explain why the capitol enjoys such a defensible position. But to return to my initial point: the land of the fire giants may have been warmer before it was risen up above the snow line. The unnatural path to approach the area and the fractured landscape behind held together with chains points to gravity magic employed to isolate and crumble these lands. And without that snow, the forge may have been much more than embers. 3. The giants' civilization stretched all the way down to Limgrave. We see their massive pillars and arches standing proud all across the lands between. These are the same pillars holding up the forge. We also see the remains of many of their stone golems. This indicates that either the humans lived alongside giants in many places, not just in the northern lands. My guess is this was the case right up until the arrival of the Greater Will. 4. Perhaps all humans are descended from giants in Elden Ring. There's an interesting recurring theme of older humanoids being larger than their contemporaries. The ultimate expression of this are the ancient skulls dotted around the Mountaintops and Caelid. If these people strode the lands between today, they would make the Erdtree look normal sized by comparison. Then we literally descend to giants and trolls, humans, demi-humans, and the vulgur militia. Let us also not forget about the seated figures that the Nox worshipped, who are larger than even the giants. Many other creatures appear quite large compared to the humans: ants that can be ridden as steeds is a standout, but crabs, crayfish, octopuses, bears, bats, dragonflies, rats, and slugs are also much larger than one would expect. Ancient dragons are also much larger than modern dragons. Is that theme pertinent to the lore? Hard to say, because large creatures are a common trope of fantasy RPGs. But it's interesting to think that maybe this whole game takes place at a tiny scale and the huge skulls are the normal sized humans that used to live there.
Dude I just have to say we all can see how hard you work on these videos. These videos must take you a long time to do! And all the research you do? Wow! I will continue watching all your lore videos! Keep it up and we'll keep supporting ya!
I'm just astonished I never made the connection between the trolls abdominal cavity and their relationship to the fire giants and Fell God. Amazing analysis 👍
Im not sure the fell god is actually evil. Gods of destruction are not always evil. Sometimes they are a nessary part of their their world, used to destroy corruption and stagnation. One need only look to indian mythology to find a parallel.
If Radagon IS Marika the red hair might be associated with a curse from the Fire giants for the genocide she commited. I also love the correlation you made with Radagon's children inheriting traces of the Giants (or their curse) such as their size, ferocity and rebellious nature (indicated by their fiery hair). Very poetic.
So if radagon is of giant's blood, why isnt marika? They are one and the same, right? I think the fact that marika does not have red hair shows that radagon's hair wasn't always red, and that he was cursed by the giants to share their traits, ultimately shaming him in all the ways you mentioned
Marika states at their marriage ceremony that "We are to become one," as in there was a time when Radagon and Marika were separate entities. There's some speculation that Radagon split off from Marika and then fused again later, but not sure if there's any evidence of that. I had originally thought that too, that Radagon was cursed by the Giants, but the text could also be interpreted as Radagon being related to the giants. Either way, it's interesting that this red hair trait now lives on in several powerful beings in the Lands Between
Earned my subscription today. I live in a area that doesn't have any internet companies and therefore I have to play my games offline or use my hotspot. I have the hardest time ever starting a new character on a game if I already have a og character made your videos really help me with this problem. The simple fact is I could listen to Damn near anything at all and it give the same effect. That being said your lore videos really spark my interest and Imagination and actually makes me more focused on the task at hand. If I may though. It would be awesome to see a longer video of the lore surrounding all the regular enemies. Show the little guys some love too man.
The Giant's Red Braid is a little poorly worded in the English translation, but the JP spells it out a lot more clearly. Radagon isn't part of the Fire Giants, the question is if he was directly cursed by the Fire Giants. 火の巨人の、燃えるような赤髪を編み込み束ねた太鞭 A whip made from braided flame-red hair of a fire giant. 巨人たちは、皆一様に赤髪であり Every giant has red hair. Then the interesting bit: ラダゴンは、自らの赤髪に絶望したという It is said that Radagon's own red hair brought him despair. それは巨人の呪いだったろうか Was it because of the curse of the giants ? Radagon obviously never fought in the War of the Giants himself, since he began fighting for the Erdtree during the Liurnian Wars. (Where conspicuously he was already leading the whole army, both times.) So his curse has to have come from some other method than by the Fire Giants themselves.
another thing I think worth noting is that the golden order had a rule against wielding fire as one of the depraved perfumers items reads something along the lines of "the golden order does not permit the use and handling of fire but this rule was quickly forgotten ounce war was waged ". so since the golden order entire foundation is on a tree I guess it's pretty understandable they don't like fire on top of the fire giants having a rival outer god they worship. also the giant conjuring heros grave has trolls bult in to the walls I assume this was a tribute to the fallen trolls
Great video. Disagree on principle with the characterisation of a god of destruction as inherently evil. You see throughout the human cost of sustaining the erdtree: the roots caked with corpses, the undying crucifixions, so on. Destruction is neutral. There is far more concretely evil going on with the Golden Order than what seems like the impersonal destruction of the Fell God. The firemonk chest piece to me speaks to the _repression_ of such destructive forces, in the psychoanalytic sense: you tamp down on something, refuse to give it voice, but you're left with an excess, which will express itself, probably in an undermining or embarrassing way. The stewarding of the fire, the sequestering of it to somewhere cold and far away, is a repressive structure, an overlay that tamps down on that energy; that shit is just going to fart out somewhere else. The fire-monks are an attempt to deny and diminish the significance of the fire, only that kind of power isn't something you can just deny. It forces you to reckon with it in some way.
Another spectacular video. Enjoyed every second of it. The story of the last giant is tragic indeed, but perhaps they got their revenge through a curse of their own - by cursing Ragadon and his children. Through these lore videos you’ve literally changed the way I look at, and play the game. Can’t wait to start a new game and role play as a, so to speak, decedent of the giants and burn the Erdtree all over again :-)
Another interesting detail is Radahn's greatrune discription "The Great Rune burns, to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot". Now that could either be because the great rune naturally attempts to resist the scarlet rot OR it comes as a result of Radahn presumably being at least part giant and thus the Fell God perhaps has had some influence on Radahn or that particular greatrune
I think radagon was most definitely a giant, we know from the trolls and the sword of Milo’s description that giants can come in many different shapes and sizes, and given how large radahn is, I think it’s pretty damn likely. And it’s also reinforced by the fact that red hair is always synonymous with the giants. This also imo really implies that radagon was indeed his own person before becoming a one with marika, and I personally don’t think he became one with her until AFTER he left rennala. I think the greater will saw that marika was drifting away from the golden order, and the greater will knowing how much of a fanatic radagon is, called him in secret to become one with marika as a way to keep her in check so to speak, which would also explain why he just randomly left rennala for seemingly no reason, deep down he probably saw this as his duty to protect the golden order. Also on a side note the fire prelates are some of the coolest enemies in the game, I wish they were in it more, as far as I know they’re are only 4 of them in the entire game which is unfortunate, they’re so cool.
I want to start off by saying this video was overall amazing and I love how it explains the giants lore so well. I will say one problem with Raddagon being of giants blood is goldmask tells us Raddagon is Markia so they’d both need to have giant ties. I think it’s more plausible that if anything that Raddagon got cursed by the giants rather than a direct descendent.
Smough what are your thoughts on potential dlc for elden ring do you believe it will expand on the stories of characters like miquella, the gloam eyed queen and even the various outer gods introduced in the lore of elden ring
I'm not sure tbh Noah because FS dlc can either be something that expands on an existing area (Artorias) or can be a completely new region of lore (Ringed city). Tbh I would hope for something in the middle; a bridging subject in the existing lore that takes into something brand new.
@@SmoughTown thank you for sharing your opinion and follow up question if they do go the ringed city route would you prefer FS to wrap up the lore of the new subject or leave it open ended for potential fan theories and deeper lore research?
Let me know your thoughts on the Fire Giants below! Remember to Subscribe for more ER Lore
just glad to get another lore vid from ya mate deep af everytime
@@Haltboy thanks dude. Appreciate that
Bro, you are delivering! You are doing what is needed to be done ! I appreciate you and your vid’s. Hope you’re having a good day/night as well :)
@@Tomie.. Thanks Tomie! Doing well, just chilling out and working on the next one
I think you are seriously sleeping on one extremely important mythological influence: Surtr, the jötunn of flame who would burn the world come Ragnarök. I mean, he is explicitly linked to the burning of a world tree, to the deaths of gods, and to natural disasters as a whole, while also being associated with the freezing cold (what with his race, the jötunn, commonly being refered to in English as the ice giants). The only things he doesn't have in common with the Fell God is the cyclops thing, which is easily explained by the Fell God having multiple influences. But other than that, the connections are much stronger between the Fell God and Surtr than they are with, for example, the Cyclopes.
I don't think that the thorns are what caused the huge frozen giants to be missing limbs. It seems to me that the missing limbs are an indicator of how hard the giants were fighting, cutting off their own limbs mid-battle and burning them up as a sacrifice to summon the strength of the Fell God, much like we see the fire giant do in the boss fight.
Give your god a hand!
No, literally. Set it on fire.
Some could also be the work of Chadfrey and his big ass axe
I thought of the same theory; the missing limbs might have been self inflicted for sacrifices. We'll never know forsure though :(
@@Gaming04-o7uAh, so Godfrey causes the burning of the tree by mistake, when fighting the fire giants he cut off their limbs only for them to summon the Fell God truly through all of the limbs for short time, long enough for Fell God to break Godfrey Axe and burn the Erdtree, triggering Marika to send him away
@@BossFight101I don't think so.
One thing that should certainly be noted is that the Flame harnessed in "Flame, cleanse me" can cure Scarlet Rot, which could only ever be stalled by Miquella, and could never once be stopped by anything from the Golden Order
This implies that the Fell God's power is greater than the powers of Rot, or that it holds some sort of power over it, such as the flowing water-like movements of the blue-dancer swordsman who taught Malenia
@freedomofspeechenjoyer5443 That rot is Rot without a connection to the actual source of it. The Lake of Rot is connected to the literal Outer God of Rot, and the Haligtree has Malenia sitting literally next to its roots. Comparing Caelid to either of those two is like looking at a forest fire at the edge where the flames have barely reached, compared to the actual wildfire itself
@@somedudewithakeyboard5388 By the same token then, the "Flame, Cleanse Me!" incantation is only curing the affliction of rot - nothing suggests that the Fell God is "more powerful" than the God of Scarlet Rot. The Fire Giant can be afflicted with Scarlet Rot after all. I do think it's significant that these powers interact in this way though - certainly referencing the smoldering walls and torch bearers of Caelid, but it makes me think that the powers of the Outer Gods sorta cancel each other out to a degree. Like, without having dominion over the Elden Ring, their powers are on a level playing field vying for races or people of renown to champion their cause. It's also about the intent behind the material or technique - "Flame, Cleanse Me!" asks to be healed and cleansed. The Fell God may be one who takes sacrifice and encourages violence but has the decency to answer to help. The God of Scarlet Rot has no such niceties.
@@pilot7882 It's also a matter of what they have dominion over. Rot contaminates, while flame cleanses. It's like Rock vs. Scissors.
It makes sense, decaying life burns more readily than abundant (moist) life.
@@doodmcswood507
Fell god = scissors
Rot god = paper
Golden God = dennis reynolds
My interpretation of Marika sparing the last giant is that the Flame of Ruin *needs* to be tended to by a Fire Giant, or else it will run rampant and out of control.
Maybe continuously dumping snow on it with that cauldron?
A note about the Troll's Hammer: It's head is in the same swirling pattern as the Fell God's Eye.
It's not really a pattern, it has like 8 pupils.
@@BBoy4040 It's modeled after the north pole of Jupiter, which has one big circle surrounded by several smaller ones.
@Kyle Lyre is correct, it looks like a indentation, in the hammer, super similar to the one eye.
Mining tool of stonedigger trolls used to crack bedrock.
Trolls are descended from the giants, and these were supposedly once used as ceremonial smithing tools. In the distant past, smithing was considered divine.
Always wondered what lore specific data exsists for this hammer. Being buffable had to be intentional.
I wonder if this has any implications on the qualities of troll-smithing. The witch hunter has a line in regards to the weapons Iji created would later prove resistant to the ravages of the rot's blight. Could this be an ember of the fell-god's power in smithing used by trolls that still retain such ancient knowledge? Or could it be something else?
It's a recurring pattern found at the Divine Towers as well. Maybe the trolls have a hand on its constuction?
"Long-lived" is how Zamor Knights are described. Numen as well. Marika is of the Numen race also. Ranni was taught by a "snow witch" likely called Renna.
So the implication being that the snow witch may perhaps be Zamor?
@@tkri Maybe the Zamor are a kind of Numen too, you never know where things can take us.
renna may also be short for rennalla
@@davidchatten2584 could have possibly been another child of Rennala and Radagon, one of the now soulless demigods.
I thought Ranni's tutor was known to have blue skin and 4 arms. This is why Ranni's new body has these features, as a homage to her teacher.
The Fire Monks almost feel like an inverse of the Night's Watch from Game of Thrones. They're a collection of both dedicated warriors and outcasts, keeping watch against an ancient threat in the far north. Only, instead of protecting Westeros from the cold and dark of the White Walkers, they're guarding the Lands Between from the threat of a flame so powerful it could burn the Erdtree.
Agreed!! Alot of inversed parallels from asoiaf. Carians and martells...moon and sun respectively.. unconquered by the throne, but came into the fold.thru marriage.
@sydposting this might not be the place, but definitely alot parallels from grrm's asoiaf..the direwolves and starks is to empyreans and their shadows. 3 eyed raven and close parallel to godwyn the undead and his eyes accross the lands..radagon and the misbegotten with red locks to asoiaf's kings bastards, erdtree and weirwood tree both seemingly needs blood as nourishment.
Westerosi old gods, faith of the 7, rhllor etc. And all the outergods of lands between, kin fighting and so on..
There are architectural similarities between the giants' forge, golems, divine towers, and dynastic ruins. There are also associations between the Mountaintops and Mt. Gelmir, from red glintstone, to the burning of the erdtree, to bronze metal, to fingercreepers. The flame of the fell god is very similar to full moon sorcery, evoking not only fire but also the sun, which is overshadowed by the erdtree. Some crucial element to this portion of the story is missing.
dlc will be a game changer
This is somewhat of a reference to nordic mythos, the sun and the moon taking roles as did the wolves under yggdrasil
@@namethatgamess1487there is a connection between the fire giants and the civilization that built the ancient ruins of Rauh. Many of the structures contain the exact same imagery.
@@dfwTxRen3Gadeoh yeah, that’s right! The Furnace Visage mentions that the Fell God “haunts the sagas of the Hornsent.”
Dude !!! You work harder and faster then Malenia’s waterfowl dance, well done man !!!!
Thanks bud! Hope you enjoy
Also much like Malenia’s waterfowl dance, he’s just killin’ it
I mean Vati is officially on the "influencer" side of the scale now. So someone has to pick up his slack.
@@Lakefront_Khan ? What? Lol
@@Lakefront_Khan We are so lucky to have such creative and hard working people, with different styles and approaches, there is no reason to bash anyone.
I personally love the presentation, voice, ideas and long format of Smough. I also love the conciseness and cleanness of Vaati. You can appreciate both.
They are humans, with lives and their own schedules, they do not exist to produce content at the pace you desire.
Also, the quality of Vaati's latest videos have undoubtedly and dramatically improved from his earlier videos.
You can enjoy both, or just not watch someone if you have a problem, but throwing shade like that is just entitled, rude and bizarre behaviour.
Excellent scholarly work my friend. Gideon has competition, indeed.
I really appreciate the quality of your shots in game to visually connect your thorough dive through the lore.
A grade or two above the other videos on ER lore. Sometimes I don't agree 100% with your theories but they always make me think. But still, like 95% of the stuff you present is so well backed up. Just great work. Keep it up!
Thanks William! I don't always agree with my theories either haha! Really appreciate the kind words
@@SmoughTown and SMOUGHTOWN THE ALL KNOWING!!
I have a theory about the knights of zamor: I think they were worshippers of the ice dragons when they had dominion over the lands between, and I think the banished knights were similar but came from a different region(Possibly near stormveil). The reason I think this is because I mixed and matched zamor armor with the banished knight armor, and I noticed that the plate pieces are almost completely matching in color, almost as if they were crafted from the same metal.
There is more. The Icrerind Hatchet seems to come from them as well, and it would explain locations of the errant Zamor we find outside the Mountaintops.
That’s so fun to think about. I’m gonna check it out now lol
Another interesting link I found to them and the dragons is this: The zamor armor states that they have been fighting the giants since "Time immemorial", the other time that phrase is used is on the Old Lords Talisman, which states that farum azula has been slowly crumbling since time immemorial
Yeah I noticed the same thing two Days ago its a pretty cool discovery
Not to mention the mysterious “storm lord” who ruled stormveil castle, was said to be in alliance with the ancient dragons so it would make sense long ago that the Zamor were of worship over the ice dragons. To prove my point I direct you to the fact that the banished knights happen to be guarding places of significance to dragons fighting with dragon spells.
The dragon communion which holds the corpse and magic of dragons. Then Pharam Azula, the kingdom of dragons.
I just gotta say, I’ve been watching your stuff forever, and always dug your videos, but you’ve been absolutely killing it with the Elden Ring content. Honestly, Future Press should reach out to you next time they do a From Soft book that includes lore. I’m looking forward to their upcoming Elden Ring books, but you’ve set the bar pretty damn high.
Thanks Luke that's so humbling to hear. Will strive to continually improve!
@@SmoughTown Kudos, because you picked up where Vaatividya failed tremendously. The rate he's getting lore content out is laughable, despite being one of if not the most popular from soft lore historian. He has the financial backing of Patreon, ad revenue, and sponsorships, but can't actually deliver content in the first place, let alone good.
I've found out more about Elden Ring from you than from him, and I'm glad it's paying off. I remember watching your Sekiro videos because of a similar reason as mentioned above. Keep on keeping on, and may we bask in the radiance of the Haligtree together forever.
Also... Just got to the consecrated Snowfield a few days ago and I'm wondering if we can expect something on that zone in the future...? It's so peaceful and mysterious, but also terrifying. I'm reminded of the atmosphere from The Thing.
@@lucamckenn5932 He's a "influencer" now. And before people say "he has a baby"' I would like you go look at FightenCowboys uploads.
@@Lakefront_Khan he has his book to take care too if i remember. Also Vaati's cinematic presentation is ahead of everyone else's i think , that might lead to him having to take more time . But yeah he's no longer the best for pure lore .
also aiya you guys are so toxic with these comparison. just watch whoever you like without talking shit about other creator
@@mauauauauaua14 I agree with you. I'm really liking Smough's videos, but we don't have to bash anyone else to build him up.
I love how these outer gods are (to some degree) linked to numbers. We have the fell God, represented by one eye, the greater will, represented by the two fingers and the flame of freny, represented by the three fingers.
I think some of the other outer gods also have symbolism with the number three. Malenia has to bloom three separate times to become the Goddess of Rot, and the Formless Mother is communed with through a three-pronged trident, which also serves as the symbol of the Mohgwyn Dynasty. Mohg also starts his “nihil” countdown at 3.
@@monkeysbrains and says nihil three times and you as the player with his spear can use the Bloodboon Ritual WA 3 times consecutively
Placidusax also had 4 heads
@@bennygohome4576 incorrect, hackers such as Zullie have found that he has a fifth head stump behind all the rest, thereby he originally had five heads, the Talisman just doesn't have enough space to depict the fifth head without asymmetry, and in his case since he was the first Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree means we can assume his two remaining heads are meant to symbolize the two fingers and his three decapitated heads for the three fingers
@@AntediluvianGirlmore notably
"Nihil" literally translates to zero
Dude, you have been absolute on this content from the word go. I was not expecting to find someone who got into the Hawkshaw level of detail and bring it all about so quickly. Dont you go burning yourself out working at this pace, the content is absolutely fantastic.
Thank you Chris! Think i'll take the weekend off
I really appreciate taking the time to dissect the thorn sorcerers, I did sort of see them as a dark reflection of regular sorcerers but I was mainly preoccupied with what the Blood Star could be and why thorn sorcery requires faith to wield
My guess is a malevolent star that, instead of guiding humans, subjugates them and demands sacrifice to use its power. Perhaps instead of astrologers who work to communicate with the stars, the Blood Star itself communicates with the guilty
I think the Blood star is another name for the formless Mother, which I think takes the form of a red Nebula (which counts as a star in Elden Ring), like the one surrounding Mogh palace.
@@MitridatedCarbon nice catch about the Red Nebula 👍🏻
I had a small theory about the impaled giants. Given that there is some evidence that Marika herself was present at the battle, I thought that perhaps she commanded the very roots of the Erdtree to impale the giants. Just what I thought when I finally reached the mountaintop myself.
The image of marika just ripping the battle field apart with thorns makes me really sad we never get to fight her. Her using the roots of the erdtree itself to fight you sounds so cool. I know Radagon and her are the same people but I still would have liked to fight Marika. Don’t get me wrong the final fight was awesome regardless.
that's metal as fuck
@@loftwingheropon2743 Same, I was thinking/hoping that Marika and Radagon would be a sort of stance switch boss with different movesets for each. Seeing some of Marika’s incantations in battle would’ve been sick.
They look as tho they came from above and the giants for the most part seem to have been running away from the tree when struck so im more inclined to believe it was branches from above that rained down spearing all the giants
@UnholyWrath3277 that doesn't make sense most of the thorns in the giants are right side up not upside-down
Imagine if you could spare the Fire Giant and have him help you against the elden beast
Imagining a summon sign for the fire giant and spawning him into the arena is hilarious to me
can hear my pc melting
age of the fell god ending frmsoft pls. you can color the flames of frenzy redder in this one!
Which reminds me of the initial information on Elden Ring. Which led you to believe you could actively side with the one of the warring factions in-game and influence the outcome.
I know a lot of Fromsoft games could theoretically go off the rails if you could at least speak fragmented sentences, but Elden Ring especially is awash with hostile beings that are established as being sapient and sentient, alongside having yet to lose their minds and go feral. Imagine the sorry state of the guy who has to account for people who want to actually point Malenia in Mohg's direction instead of stripping naked and trying to take her without taking a hit.
Can't wait to crack this one open, you make some of the best stuff for this game. Cheers Smough!
Thanks my dude! Enjoy
I feel like there is some connection between the thorn sorcerers and the formless mother. The fact that where Mohg chose to settle is home to blood and fire, and his abilities leaves burning blood behind. Blood and fire being something we see with thorn sorcerers
No reason multiple gods to not work together. Or have overlapping powers.
I don't think they're connected. The Thorn Sorcerers apparently see the "Blood Star", and their incantations only use blood.
The Formless Mother communes through cursed blood, and sets blood aflame. And, unlike a star, she is supposedly formless.
They seem too different. I think the Blood Star might be another Outer God or force that we just don't know much about, like the Scarlet Rot outer God
I’ve always assumed the formless mother and blood stat were the same. Thorn sorceries and blood fire channel faith and both revel in wounds, especially self inflicted. The albinaurics tainted by the formless mother release red thorns from within.
There could be some connection with having to be blind to see the outer god of blood. Mohg is missing one eye due to his ingrown horn.
Maybe this is just my interpretation. But i thought that the Troll's chest cavity was the work of the golden order.
If the fell god exists in and jumps to different giants upon the death of one of its vessels. It makes sense that the order would gouge or remove the face/eyeball from the trolls who sided with them. So that the fell god doesnt jump to one of them and put the erd tree at risk. By sneaking behind enemy lines.
In fact that may have been a requirement to prove their loyalty upon their betrayal of the fell god.
You have replaced vaati as my lore guy for elden ring. I still like his videos, but your long form lore deep dives are fantastic. Thanks for all you do in these vids and keep up the hard work bro 💪
Thanks Nathan! Will keep working hard
Yeah Vaati seems more enamored with Merchandise than content these days
@@logion567 Major L take. The warrior within and the latest videos are of incredibly high production value.
@@matterking1 he's also only done 4 elden ring videos since it was released, while this guy has like 15, most at least 20 minutes. Vaati seems burnt out
@@HavikXIII He’s literally trying to widen the scope of his content and collaborating with video game cinematographer’s but yeah go ahead and be a slug brain
First off, wonderful video :)
I don't think the Fell God is solely a deity of "destruction". It seems that the Fell God is right in the middle of the Frenzy Flame God and the Golden Order, in that the Golden Order perpetuates strict ideals of "beauty/order/growth" that never ends and the Frenzy Flame is obsessed with straight up destruction with nothing after it. One eternally stagnant and the other eternally empty. To me the Fell God is a cyclical being. Destruction precedes creation, so the flame breaks down materials and then they're reforged into something new. It's a sacrificial god in that one cannot earn something without first giving something, hence the fire giant offering his leg for power. In this context they might oppose the Zamor because ice and cold is a halting of this process, think the cold death of the universe when we reach absolute zero in the end, though this may be a bit of a reach.
As a side note, I find the relationship between the Fell God and the Frenzy Flame to be interesting... I have this head cannon that Marika didn't truly kill the Fell God. We can see that the Fell God has the ability to live on in his subjects and perhaps even body parts themselves, or maybe simply living flesh. I wonder if the Three Fingers was a body part of the Fell God, the last of its physical representation in the Lands Between, and Marika couldn't completely kill it. So she locked it away underneath the capital before she exiled the merchants. It stayed alive in the dark, festering and obsessing over vengeance until it mutated into something else and infected the merchant guild. A God that lost the creation aspect of its being and was left with only destruction which split completely from whatever deity still remained in the still-living fire giant, so they're related but separate. Even the eyes of the Fell God and those infected with Frenzy Flame are similar though not identical.
Granted, I have no idea if the timeline for this would match up at all but it's a fun thought to entertain in my mind.
I was also thinking about the possible connection between the fell god and the flame of frenzy. I’m not entirely sure what I think of it, but I’m starting to theorize that you’re right that the fell god is in between the order of the Erd tree and the chaos of the flame of frenzy but I think the three fingers are separated from a hand that used to have 5 thus creating both the two fingers and the three (this being the hand of the fell god). This would mean that the rebirth aspect of the fell god was incorporated into the order of the erdtree while the destructive aspect was cast aside. If this theory is right then it would explain the origins of radagon and how he is a part of Marika. By absorbing this part of the fell god, she could become a more powerful source of creation and order while subordinating her enemy. It would also explain why her other half is a mortal enemy of the Erd tree, a fire giant in the form of radagon, which is otherwise very hard to explain.
I just want to add on to why I think it’s clear that you’re right about the fell god being cyclical between order and destruction because I forgot to put this in my previous comment. The act of smithing is very closely related to the fire giants and the fell god (even the giant’s flame looks like it’s designed as some sort of giant smithy, but maybe that’s just me). And smithing is obviously an act of creating something by destroying something else - you beat a piece of metal into oblivion and out pops a sword or you melt something down, destroying it, in order to cast it, thereby creating something else. This is the clearest evidence that you’re right I think.
@@schonmp Long reply, sorry: The idea that the Fell God essentially "birthed" both the Frenzied Flame and the Golden Order is something I've thought about. But the timeline and the way Marika went about subduing the Fell God and its followers makes me less likely to go with this hypothesis. If the Elden Beast didn't literally fall out of the sky and bring the Golden Order to the Lands Between I'd be inclined to agree, but in this case it seems a literal supply drop from an Outer God that saw the Lands Between as an opportunity to spread its influence. The Golden Order and Elden Beast strike me as meddlers; they think they know best and inflict that upon other Outer Gods and their members. However, your statement about Radagon and Marika is very interesting... the idea that the rebirth/recycle aspect was stolen from the Fell God is extremely fascinating. But I think the Golden Order's trait of "re-using" materials was inherent to it to begin with - just look at the bodies on the Erdtree's roots and the pots that transport corpses; even in death the old were never truly discarded they were just turned into mulch. The Golden Order is eternally growing and spreading but it refuses to prune itself in its arrogance, hence why I think Godwyn's body was able to infect the tree and bring True Death to the Lands Between. But here's my question for you: Do you think the fact that Radagon becoming a part of her allowed her to destroy the Elden Ring due to his nature as a fire giant (assuming he was absorbed as opposed to his inherent existence)? Or would she have had the ability to do it all along? She could obviously move aspects of the Elden Ring around, she shoved the Death Rune into Maliketh after all, but she didn't destroy it. Or is it impossible to destroy the Runes at all? I want to say it is because the image of the Elden Ring in Crumbling Azula has a LOT more detail than the ring we are presented with, and maybe the aspect of Destruction was destroyed or excised by the Golden Order's God.
@@schonmp Also 100% yes for the smithing point, I forgot to mention it!
@@izzy4bitney (sorry for the length, but you raised some great points and questions)
I didn’t mean to give the impression that the Fell God birthed both the Golden Order and the Frenzied Flame. Rather, I think the Frenzied Flame came from the Fell God directly by being what was left over after the aspect of rebirth/creation was taken by Marika and incorporated into the *already existent* Golden Order. This takes the power that Marika saw as valuable while discarding the parts she didn’t want. I haven’t seen any mention of the two fingers or their Empyreans being around before the war of the giants (though there isn’t exactly a detailed record on this) but if there is such a record (and it’s reliable), that would be strong evidence against the theory. The idea is that the Elden Beast would have arrived but been limited in power given that it was in a new land so it would seek to strengthen itself and it’s followers by taking powers from whatever it could that aligns with its image of order (that being, as you say, constant growth). It can take these from the Fell God by dividing it in two as represented by dividing the giant hand in two. This would draw a link between the two fingers and the giants in a way that would explain why it is always a child of Radagon that is chosen as an Empyrean even though Godwyn was “the Golden” one (unless Godwyn is an empyrean and I forgot about it, I think he’s always just mentioned as a demigod). It would be a way for the Fell God to still influence things in concert with the Golden Order even while being greatly reduced in power. Also, the notion of a *new* god doesn’t make sense given the Golden Order’s resistance to any kind of destruction. So, it seems like it must be an outside influence.
As for your question about the Elden Ring, I think that incorporating Radagon into her was necessary for her to break the Elden Ring (and all the imagery is of Radagon doing the smithing/breaking, not Marika). I think even if she had the strength to do it, it would go against her very nature as the Goddess of order and stability, so the source of her strength would have resisted such an attempt and she’d be unable to do it on her own. I’m not sure that the runes can be completely destroyed though, even the frenzied flame would only “destroy” them by burning everything down into the same primordial stuff. So, they’d still be there in a way, they just wouldn’t be distinguishable from anything else. And when the new beginning started again, it would inevitably lead to the same types of cycles/runes popping up again. And for the greater complexity we see in Farum Azula, I *think* that has to do with the death rune having been removed from the Golden Order’s version of the Elden Ring. As you point out, removed but not destroyed. I imagine that other runes having to do with destruction and disorder would also have been removed, at least from the iconography used by the Golden Order if not removed from the ring itself. Also, whoever has them seem to be able to “cast them aside” like Ranni did. I doubt this means destroy, but more likely just hide away or throw on the ground. If this happened at some point before the rise of Marika, those extras in Farum Azula could simply be lost somewhere but still in the world (and so still have its effect).
Honestly impressive that you can put out such long videos in such short time. Looking forward to this one
Thank you Jack, hope you enjoy
I love that ranni’s family give the trolls more respect then marika and the golden order did.
Also please do a lore video on the dragons!
Please do a video on radagon AKA the puppet of marika and the greater will.
I'm honestly surprised at how much information we can glean about the Fire Giants and the Fire Monks considering the latter is a faction who don't have a huge presence in the Lands Between, but the fact that they're looking for Adan is why they're in Liurnia makes great sense.
Also, I feel for the Fire Giant too. Poor dude is last of his race, stuck on the mountaintop surrounded by the corpses of his kin, and with a gammy leg to boot. When I got to his second phase and saw his leg break I was like 'Sorry! Sorry! Sorry!'
Agree, reviewing his story I was like...omg the poor fella!
@@SmoughTown Even when you first see him on the mountain top, with that pot lid thing on his back and staring up towards the forge, he has the energy of a guy who just absolutely hates his life....probably the only break he got was whenever some witless Tarnished or other intruder came along.
I first found your channel after your Godskin Hunt video, let's just say I subscribed right away! I'm so glad you have continued to stay passionate about Elden Ring Lore and have continued to provide only the highest quality videos!
Thank you Wyatt! I still absolutely adore this game and have no plans to shift any time soon! Thank you for the support
My guy, honestly, my Saturday mornings rule because of you. And then when im grinding in the blood area in moghwyn, my wife literally goes “are you listening to the elden ring guy you like?” And im just sitting there vibing 🫡
Thanks Ricky! Let me know your thoughts. Hahaha that's so funny!
Honestly you are amazing for churning out such high quality video narratives. Keep up the good work!
The rate that you put out these videos is so impressive. Another excellent video
I'm not gonna lie, I'm curious about Gransax (the giant dragon in the capital), if the dragon attacked the Erdtree before the Shattering, then why can't we see its body in the trailer for the game where they show the armies marching on the capital in the Shattering?
Honestly, could just be a continuity error
might be the same reason some enemies are not in the same place they are in the trailer
I asked Saint Riot why some enemies were in stormveil in the trailer that don't belong and he told me fromsoft has done that a few times in the past for the soul series because it looks cooler for the trailers
You can't see the corpse from the outside of the city in game either and the trailer only shows the outer walls too.
@@dantoki6371 damn, you beat me to it
I would love to see more about Gransax. Maybe in DLC? Probably not enough info on him in game to make anything yet, but a giant stone dragon in the capital city really makes ya wonder...
37:45 my interpretation of the thorny branches has something to do with the Formless Mother. Alberich's altered hat has a red glintstone in it and the Briars of Punishment spell states that he discovered the "Blood Star," which is the source of aberrant sorceries like the briar spells, and Esgar's Great Hood item description reads, "Yes, surely this is the moon that young Rennala discovered." Esgar is the priest of Blood, and I think this moon he's referring to is the Blood Star that drove Alberich crazy. The Blood Star being the Formless Mother, just like how this setting's Jupiter is the Fell God. Maybe the Formless Mother wanted the giants gone so that she could have better influence/monopoly over blood flame? It would also explain why the branches are trident shaped like Mohg's spear.
Thanks for shouting out LockOn, I haven’t heard of it before and I think it is great, thanks!
I love your videos so much man! It’s like being told a nice story, one you’re familiar with but can’t remember all the details of and is still somewhat interpretative. Great work as always!
As a lore lover these videos continue to be a dream. I sincerely thank you Smoughtown. God bless.
It's my pleasure, thank you so much for the support
A couple of things relating to Radagon’s giant heritage. First of all, I think the reason Marika left one giant alive was so that the fell god had a place to reside, with the fire giant dead it’s not unreasonable to assume it would look for a new host, possibly finding purchase in Radagon, which would be very bad for the golden order.
Second, I do wonder why one of Radagon’s only weaknesses is fire if he has giant blood.
Maybe the giants are naturally weak to fire and made a deal for fire immunity to forge better?
Amazing work SmoughTown. Currently going through Elden Ring on twitch (still haven't finished it yet) there is just so much to take in and your videos have been very helpful in understanding the events that we witness. Can't wait for more!
More to follow! Really pleased to here my videos are enhancing your enjoyment!
Didn't expect I would become such a big fan of your content. Really well done stuff
Thanks lloyd, really appreciate the support
@@SmoughTown but when the dragons video coming out 👀
Your vids are the best on the site in terms of Elden ring lore. Keep up the amazing work!
You’re a machine SmoughTown, the frequency, length, and quality of the content your producing is almost unbelievable. So glad Ratatoskr introduced you to us. Keep up the good work and make sure to take some downtime from time to time comrade!
The best elden ring lore channel around, love your content and you!
Thank you Marko!
@@SmoughTown Of course, you've given me such a good insight into this game, it would be criminal not to show you love!
Wow I didn't expect this for another month, keep up the great work!
I like the description of the giant hammer, where it states early humans were much stronger than current humans in the Lands Between. If Hoarah Loux is the prime example of a peak ancient warrior, then it explains why he's so huge and stronk.
Currently on a train and I'll enjoy this video to the fullest, like a podcast of some sort.
Hell yeah bubble, thank you!
You really deserve more recognition and subscribers. The quality, insight, editing, research and healthy speculation are all notable and deserving of praise.
I am happy to be a fan of both Elden Ring and your incredible lore videos. I wish you consistent success throughout your RUclips career.
Really great video! I’m very excited for when/if you get to Those Who Live In Death and Godwyn, it’s an incredibly fascinating topic
Over 70k now! So happy and proud of you, you are doing an outstanding job.
Especially these past few videos are bangers. I'm learning so much 😁
Thank you Marnles! I am delighted. Thanks so much for the support
I cant help but be reminded of the dead giants growing into trees in Dark Souls 2 when you showcased the thorn sorcery.
You are making the absolute best ER lore videos. Thank you!
I really like your videos I have hundreds of hours invested in this game and still haven't found everything there is to find it would be great to see a video on the ancient dragon keep up the good work
its a good day when you see a new hour+ smoughtown elden ring lore vid. i'll be rewatching this one for the next couple weeks for sure. i love the fire giants and wish so badly we got to learn more about them
One thing I've always been curious about was the even bigger giant corpses in the Mountaintops. The ones you both see in the Mountaintop of the Giants, along with Caelid too. Were they dead before the war with the Fire Giants? Were they preexisting before the Fire Giants and the Age of the ErdTree? They don't seem to have the Fell God residing in their chest so they might have been a different race of giants entirely?? It's weird I don't see anyone online talking about the huge corpses that are 3x bigger than the average Fire Giant!
Love your videos dude, you put so much effort in these videos and it definitely shows. Helps me pick up the little things when replaying the game over again!
Bit late but, my personal theory is that once upon a time the mountain tops of the giants and Caelid were linked by a land bridge. That’s why we see giants skeletons in Caelid and how ice Dragons who are modern dragons ended up ruling the mountains despite their originator, Greyoll being in Caelid.
@@sceptile6375 True I can definitely see that. But weren't dragons literally dominating the world before all other species? Kinda like ds3? So I'd make some sense for there to be straggling Dragons in each region right? Kinda like Kalameet in ds1 and Dark Eater Midir in ds3. Just super old ragged dragons still surviving through the years. And I feel like those even bigger giants predate the Dragons possible. It looks like there corpse is deep beneath the Mountains. Which if they do environmental storytelling well enough. It'd be like digging up ancient fossils. I wish they had any mention of the Giant remains in the game.
@@unattractable145 what you say about dragons is true but I believe that is in the context of ancient dragons. When speaking about modern dragons the only item descriptions mentioning the history of ancient dragons (that I’m aware of, there are a lot that I might not know) say Greyoll was the first dragon (probably meaning modern dragon) and Borealis’s mist (Ice dragon ruled the mountains). The implication that I took from this is that these two area’s (which in the modern era aren’t connected in the slightest) are where the modern dragon’s began.
P.S. bit of a ideal theory that’s been rattling around in my head but what if the bridge was Faram Azula before it got displaced in time or whatever happened to it.
@@sceptile6375 that would make sense actually I understand now. Like the modern dragons are just a different breed of dragons. Like different types of species of reptiles.
And also that could make sense actually because Farum Azula exist near the Cliffside of both those places. And it looks very Greek with its architecture and design. Definitely could of been a meeting place that connected 2 places. Kind of like a meeting grounds of the land.
I don't know why I keep rewatching this particular video. All of your videos are great, I just keep coming back to this one every now and then. Thank you for the great video!
That's so nice to hear! Thank you so much
Incredible video. I would eventually like to hear your take on Marika and Radagon's history. Did they start out separate and fuse later? Was radagon just a part Marika reborn with the orange amber? What were the motivations we can discern with all the potential propaganda and unreliable narrators. It's a whole can of worms that I think would make for a great video
Thank you Oliver
That would be interesting. In my opinion, Radagon was a portion, or aspect, of Marika that was separated to allow for her to better command her armies. He was bound to her body once more "after" or a little before the twins conception or birth (we have no idea if they simply combined their essences to create the twins, since they are godly in nature, or "did the nasty").
Edit: thinking some more, Radagon as an aspect would've had to have been separated from Marika before the war against the giants, because I'm pretty sure the "curse" from the fire giants that changed the pigment of Radagon's hair. Red is mentioned as being connected to the Fell God, and the giants, leading to Radahn and Malenia having red hair like their father
this is the perfect video I needed, I just started a pure flame build past night.
The relationship of the fire giants with the Erdtree is very reminiscent of the Jotun and Aesir of Norse mythology. Both were mortal enemies due to the Jotun being the original greater force of the world, as well as being prophesied to help bring about the end of the gods, specifically the fire giant Surtr bringing Ragnarok to Asgard. The cherry on top being that several Aesir gods are also descended from the Jotun, such as Thor and Loki.
A little bit of a shame that you did not reference Surtr and the Fire Giants of Norse myth. They also seem to be a pretty big inspiration, especially given the burning of Yggdrasil which the Fire Giants' god is supposed to cause at the climax of Ragnarok. I do agree that Balor was a significant inspiration for the Fell God of the Giants as well, but that seems like a significant source to miss out on citing.
Also worth noting: I believe Tarnished Archaeologist is correct when he suggests the Primordial Giants probably first had a civilization before the arrival of the Golden Star (and would go further than he in suggesting there's a good likelihood that that was the calamity which brought the civilization to an end, as well), after which I believe it would take the lesser Fire Giants a long time to properly repopulate and reorganize into a coherent people, up in the mountaintops. Down south, the Beastmen and Ancient Dragons would build Farum Azula, and then Grayoll would precipitate the birth of the lesser dragons, leading to the birth of the Ice Dragons thereafter, before the Fire Giants were able to get their act together and kick said dragons off the mountaintops, suggesting a truly colossal timescale for the bounce back which followed. (Also, there was obviously a significant gap between when the Golden Star fell and when the Erdtree grew.)
It's also, I should say, quite probable that the Beastmen independently discovered forging after an epoch of using stone tools, since they seem to have made items of gold, then bronze, then iron; whereas the Fire Giants and their ancestors seem to have immediately started with Meteoric Iron at the behest of their god.
Great video, just one thing: the cyclops aren’t evil beings in Greek mythology, quite on the contrary they are the ones that forged Zeus’s lightning bolts and Poseidon’s trident, they were a key component in Zeus defeating his father and becoming king of the universe so yeah definitely not evil
If I’m not mistaken, the cyclops are also the children of Poseidon
I have been waiting soooooo long for someone with a RUclips channel to connect the Blood Star to Mogh’s formless mother and bring up that Alberich is a primeval sorcerer with his red replaced with red glintstone for so long. Please look at his altered helm, you very nearly brought me to tears lol….
Cheers for the [lock-on] shout out!
Most welcome my dude!
Never really thinking about the flame monks or the influence of the flame or giants in general, I think of all your videos this one surprised me the most and gave me a lot of appreciation for the flame monks as a faction. Very interesting lore and you do a great job putting it all together. Well done.
It’s interesting they mention that all giants have red hair for there’s a rumor that there was once a tribe of cannibal giants named the Saiduka who lived in the Utah area of America and that they were all wiped out by the Paiute tribe.
Ironically the giants were all killed off using fire to smoke out their caves and even burn them.
I wonder if there’s a connection.
While thats interesting it would be unlikely most japanese people would be aware of niche native american legends so id think its unlikely but far from impossible
Just finished the video and yet again another tremendously enjoyable listen. Each one of these videos have been better than the last, and I'm glad you're having as much fun making them as we are watching and listening to them. Keep up the good work!!
Great video. Can you do one on the Dragons or the Frenzied Flame?
Dragons are 100% on the list and feel I do need to cover FF at some stage
i don't know what kind of dark sorcery SmoughTown performs to produce this kind of quality longform content at such a fast rate but i am very glad of it.
one thing the giants have left me thinking of a lot lately is what connection, if any, the fire giants of the mountaintop have to the much larger, seemingly much longer-dead giants found as partially buried skeletons all across the lands between, perhaps they are their ancient ancestors they devolved from, just as the trolls devolved from fire giants
Honestly the fire giant we meet shouldn’t be the thing we use to represent all fire giants. Since the one we meet was tortured and in slaved and forced to protect the cauldron. It’s likely that the fire Giants were peaceful society that mostly kept to themselves and living peacefully with the stars but that change when they went to war with the golden order.🐱
Assuming any nation or people are peaceful in fiction or real life is just stupid lmao
Everything changed when the Golden Order attacked
They worship a god that made an imprint of its face onto its followers torsos, this ain't a friendly society dude.
Let’s go bro, your content is consistently amazing. Can’t wait for the next vid
What a great work, excellent video, thank you! 🙌🏿
the best elden ring lore RUclips channel there is, and the only one I trust other than vaatividya. I love that your videos always branch out to other topics, it makes the video feel far more complete than some of the other channels that make surface-level 20 minute videoa
I dont think that leg sacrifice is god being evil. Its the god of flame and flame needs fuel it is its nature. Every other god needs something in return as well. Greater will craves souls, formless mother blood etc.
Counter point, the god of flame is evil within the story’s rhetorical argument as the dominant divine authority of the setting (the one with the greatest application of violence) declared it evil and thus it is evil. Now if the god if flame wins dominion then what it deems is good is good and what is evil is evil.
@@shadowofhawk55 we are not taking politics into account, this theory is purely hypothesized based on human moral principles.
According to politics in Lands Between, Greater Will is divine and good and the Fell God is not. According to Basic morality, both of them commit pretty atrocious acts (Greater Will literally buried alive few hundred merchants) so I'd say they are on the same level in objective morality, judging their past actions. It may even be that the Greater Will has proven worse than the Formless Mother and Fell God since it had more time to act according to its nature and cause more harm.
@@secretname2670 When you have multiple beings all capable of rewriting reality as we know each of these things can do it becomes a game of politics humanity simply lacks the power to influence it. The reason we have an objective morality in the real world is because there’s only one supreme being who does not need to compete.
@@shadowofhawk55 I'd argue that in real life, there is no objective morality, because not all things can be objective, ex; which way is it better to let a person die by - euthanasia or cancer that they have.
Digression aside, just because politics in the lands between are the easiest to understand, does not mean we should discredit the notion of there being an absolute good and an absoulte evil, to which we can instinctially compare the gods of Lands Between, which though hard to systematize, profides a pretty neutral field concerning all of the deities that Fell God, Greater Will and Blue Moon are, as they are morally neutral based on what have they done so far, as it is never an evil act for the sake of itself, usually instead they perform in the benefit of at least something besides themselves which I would consider good.
Dude I found your channel when I was playing blasphemous and you've blown me away with your amazing elden ring content.
Wow, thanks! Glad you enjoy my content for both Colin!
Wasn't there an item description that stated that Marika was cursed with red hair like the giants? I thought that the reason why Radagon has that hair was because in order for Marika to cure herself of the curse she split herself in two creating Radagon and leaving him with the cursed red hair.
i have the same theory 👍🏻
You are GOATED in my heart for all the work you do. I love these long format videos. Very good to listen to during bedtime.
MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD.
My theory is that Radagon isn't actually part giant at all, and was simply cursed by the fire giants due to being an extension of Marika. Why? Well, Radagon's Scarseal can be located on the Ancient Hero of Zamor; likely a reward given to the Hero due to duty rendered. If this is the case then it could be implied that Radagon was the one who approached the ancient Zamorians and rewarded them in kind. Radagon at this time was likely blonde, like his other half -- he might not have known who he was; this depends on if Radagon/Marika had separate bodies at one part like D and his Brother, or are the opposite, two souls one body.
Note; that if Radagon is Marika and their bodies were never separate at all; then it's likely he came from her and is only a male version. If this is true, and honestly seems the less confusing of the lot. Then Radagon is just a Numen (Nox*) -- given his knowledge of the Nox, celestial dew etc, this is also likely.
Being part of the orchestration of their giant's destruction, and being part of Marika (or at the very minimum a demi-god during this time) he was cursed by the Fell God. Why was he cursed? Because Radagon was likely at the top of the mountain - where the Fell God's influence is most powerful - while Marika is in the capital and protected the ErdTree. Radagon's curse could have been the very thing that Marika cursed the last giant with; that he would forever be duty-bound to his religion. Radagon is forever bound by duty to the Golden Order.
It could be said that the curse of the red hair is something that passes down to his children causing destruction within them. Ranni killed herself, but her body was mollified (burned). Rykard was seduced by a giant snake, eaten alive and then went on to live within a very fire mountain. Radahn took pride in his hair and taught his men fire arts, only for him to be destroyed from the inside by Scarlet Rot (Note if you roll in Scarlet Rot your hair turns red). Come to think of it, all of Radagon's children ended up cursed; there's not one that didn't escape it - regardless of hair colour.
Radagon is simply cursed and so is anyone who comes from his loins -- they have the tendency to destroy themselves by their own actions.
TLDR: Radagon was a part of the Giant War and blonde, he approached the Ancient Zamorians for their aid against the giants. The Fell God knew who Radagon was and thus cursed him with the same type of curse that was set on the Last Giant - that he was forever bound by the duty to keep the golden order aflame. The curse continues and plagues all of his children in some way or form.
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Is there any evidence in game that the fell god cursed him?
It's a theory I've seen alot but I've never actually seen evidence for.
Has there been any good theories regarding the giant corpses in Caelid? They absolutely dwarf the fire giant and are, at this point, one of the most tantalizing details in the game. I almost don't want an answer, the idea of these cyclopean bodies rotting away in a blighted landscape with no explanation at all is wonderfully mystifying .
The fire giant boss is the final of his species but never mentioned to be anything else, we do not know if it is a teen fire giant or an eldar it’s quite possible the entire fight is with a young orphaned tantrum having individual. Another note, without black smithing no known legend could occur as no fight can be won without a weapon (except the chad himself Godfrey who needs no weapon.)
@@mehqahto-and-his-uncanny-u4695 in terms of smithing maybe the erdtree worshippers realised they couldn’t fight without smithing so they used it as a necessary evil
The skulls are there to look awesome and that's about it
The word thorough doesn't even come close. Brilliant vid as always mate.
Much appreciated! Glad you enjoyed it Dave
Another amazing piece. I have some theories to add!
1. The manifestation of the Fell God may have been the once-revered Sol, now much dimmed and eclipsed by the powerfully large moon and the canopy of the Erdtree, which presumably started off smaller and grew in Marika's care. Thus she in a way could be said to have slain the Sol deity that now presents as the Fell God. It's probably just as likely that there was an actual monster, but the lore implications and symbolism on this is fun to think about.
2. The Mountaintops may have been much lower in elevation than we now see them. There is much evidence in geology and visual storytelling around gravity magic that would indicate an ability to jut great pieces of land upwards towards the sky. We see these formations first in Liurnia where the Golden Order has waged war against the Carian Royals. There are even large portions of the map that seem to have changed with new cliffs being added to block our path to Leyndell. Then we also see it with Mt. Gelmir, which is entirely made out of jutting spires and has a gravity beast guarding the summit. Perhaps the gravity mages of Leyndell formed this mountain as a way to sever ties and block the threat of the traitor, Rykard. The ability to terraform could also explain why the capitol enjoys such a defensible position. But to return to my initial point: the land of the fire giants may have been warmer before it was risen up above the snow line. The unnatural path to approach the area and the fractured landscape behind held together with chains points to gravity magic employed to isolate and crumble these lands. And without that snow, the forge may have been much more than embers.
3. The giants' civilization stretched all the way down to Limgrave. We see their massive pillars and arches standing proud all across the lands between. These are the same pillars holding up the forge. We also see the remains of many of their stone golems. This indicates that either the humans lived alongside giants in many places, not just in the northern lands. My guess is this was the case right up until the arrival of the Greater Will.
4. Perhaps all humans are descended from giants in Elden Ring. There's an interesting recurring theme of older humanoids being larger than their contemporaries. The ultimate expression of this are the ancient skulls dotted around the Mountaintops and Caelid. If these people strode the lands between today, they would make the Erdtree look normal sized by comparison. Then we literally descend to giants and trolls, humans, demi-humans, and the vulgur militia. Let us also not forget about the seated figures that the Nox worshipped, who are larger than even the giants. Many other creatures appear quite large compared to the humans: ants that can be ridden as steeds is a standout, but crabs, crayfish, octopuses, bears, bats, dragonflies, rats, and slugs are also much larger than one would expect. Ancient dragons are also much larger than modern dragons. Is that theme pertinent to the lore? Hard to say, because large creatures are a common trope of fantasy RPGs. But it's interesting to think that maybe this whole game takes place at a tiny scale and the huge skulls are the normal sized humans that used to live there.
Dude I just have to say we all can see how hard you work on these videos. These videos must take you a long time to do! And all the research you do? Wow! I will continue watching all your lore videos! Keep it up and we'll keep supporting ya!
Ah, a new lore video, just as I'm busy farming for runes to level up to max.
I'm just astonished I never made the connection between the trolls abdominal cavity and their relationship to the fire giants and Fell God. Amazing analysis 👍
Im not sure the fell god is actually evil. Gods of destruction are not always evil. Sometimes they are a nessary part of their their world, used to destroy corruption and stagnation. One need only look to indian mythology to find a parallel.
An hour and twenty minute vid on my birthday. A splendid gift from SmoughTown.
Happy birthday!
If Radagon IS Marika the red hair might be associated with a curse from the Fire giants for the genocide she commited. I also love the correlation you made with Radagon's children inheriting traces of the Giants (or their curse) such as their size, ferocity and rebellious nature (indicated by their fiery hair). Very poetic.
I like this idea. It feels karmic for Marika to be cursed by the giants for what she did to them.
Another mastahpeece...
Man, your work is so beautiful.
Thank you
Thank you for the support and kind words
So if radagon is of giant's blood, why isnt marika? They are one and the same, right? I think the fact that marika does not have red hair shows that radagon's hair wasn't always red, and that he was cursed by the giants to share their traits, ultimately shaming him in all the ways you mentioned
Marika states at their marriage ceremony that "We are to become one," as in there was a time when Radagon and Marika were separate entities. There's some speculation that Radagon split off from Marika and then fused again later, but not sure if there's any evidence of that.
I had originally thought that too, that Radagon was cursed by the Giants, but the text could also be interpreted as Radagon being related to the giants. Either way, it's interesting that this red hair trait now lives on in several powerful beings in the Lands Between
Earned my subscription today. I live in a area that doesn't have any internet companies and therefore I have to play my games offline or use my hotspot.
I have the hardest time ever starting a new character on a game if I already have a og character made your videos really help me with this problem.
The simple fact is I could listen to
Damn near anything at all and it give the same effect. That being said your lore videos really spark my interest and
Imagination and actually makes me more focused on the task at hand.
If I may though. It would be awesome to see a longer video of the lore surrounding all the regular enemies. Show the little guys some love too man.
The Giant's Red Braid is a little poorly worded in the English translation, but the JP spells it out a lot more clearly. Radagon isn't part of the Fire Giants, the question is if he was directly cursed by the Fire Giants.
火の巨人の、燃えるような赤髪を編み込み束ねた太鞭
A whip made from braided flame-red hair of a fire giant.
巨人たちは、皆一様に赤髪であり
Every giant has red hair.
Then the interesting bit:
ラダゴンは、自らの赤髪に絶望したという
It is said that Radagon's own red hair brought him despair.
それは巨人の呪いだったろうか
Was it because of the curse of the giants ?
Radagon obviously never fought in the War of the Giants himself, since he began fighting for the Erdtree during the Liurnian Wars. (Where conspicuously he was already leading the whole army, both times.) So his curse has to have come from some other method than by the Fire Giants themselves.
another thing I think worth noting is that the golden order had a rule against wielding fire as one of the depraved perfumers items reads something along the lines of "the golden order does not permit the use and handling of fire but this rule was quickly forgotten ounce war was waged ". so since the golden order entire foundation is on a tree I guess it's pretty understandable they don't like fire on top of the fire giants having a rival outer god they worship. also the giant conjuring heros grave has trolls bult in to the walls I assume this was a tribute to the fallen trolls
Great video. Disagree on principle with the characterisation of a god of destruction as inherently evil. You see throughout the human cost of sustaining the erdtree: the roots caked with corpses, the undying crucifixions, so on. Destruction is neutral. There is far more concretely evil going on with the Golden Order than what seems like the impersonal destruction of the Fell God. The firemonk chest piece to me speaks to the _repression_ of such destructive forces, in the psychoanalytic sense: you tamp down on something, refuse to give it voice, but you're left with an excess, which will express itself, probably in an undermining or embarrassing way. The stewarding of the fire, the sequestering of it to somewhere cold and far away, is a repressive structure, an overlay that tamps down on that energy; that shit is just going to fart out somewhere else. The fire-monks are an attempt to deny and diminish the significance of the fire, only that kind of power isn't something you can just deny. It forces you to reckon with it in some way.
Agree. Shiva, for instance, is not an 'evil' figure in Hindu theology.
Another spectacular video. Enjoyed every second of it.
The story of the last giant is tragic indeed, but perhaps they got their revenge through a curse of their own - by cursing Ragadon and his children.
Through these lore videos you’ve literally changed the way I look at, and play the game.
Can’t wait to start a new game and role play as a, so to speak, decedent of the giants and burn the Erdtree all over again :-)
Another interesting detail is Radahn's greatrune discription "The Great Rune burns, to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot". Now that could either be because the great rune naturally attempts to resist the scarlet rot OR it comes as a result of Radahn presumably being at least part giant and thus the Fell God perhaps has had some influence on Radahn or that particular greatrune
this dude makes high quality videos faster than anyone I've ever seen
You are the new Vaati
just as awesome lore video as the previous ones were, you really go deep that's great
Really glad you enjoyed it! Thank you
I think radagon was most definitely a giant, we know from the trolls and the sword of Milo’s description that giants can come in many different shapes and sizes, and given how large radahn is, I think it’s pretty damn likely. And it’s also reinforced by the fact that red hair is always synonymous with the giants.
This also imo really implies that radagon was indeed his own person before becoming a one with marika, and I personally don’t think he became one with her until AFTER he left rennala. I think the greater will saw that marika was drifting away from the golden order, and the greater will knowing how much of a fanatic radagon is, called him in secret to become one with marika as a way to keep her in check so to speak, which would also explain why he just randomly left rennala for seemingly no reason, deep down he probably saw this as his duty to protect the golden order.
Also on a side note the fire prelates are some of the coolest enemies in the game, I wish they were in it more, as far as I know they’re are only 4 of them in the entire game which is unfortunate, they’re so cool.
I want to start off by saying this video was overall amazing and I love how it explains the giants lore so well. I will say one problem with Raddagon being of giants blood is goldmask tells us Raddagon is Markia so they’d both need to have giant ties. I think it’s more plausible that if anything that Raddagon got cursed by the giants rather than a direct descendent.
im doing a fire giant build playthrough, getting revenge for killing all my family
Bro I get so stoked whenever I see one of your videos have dropped, they are so fucking good.
Cant get enough of this video. Making all an fire character now. Not Prince Zuko. Not Human Torch. A new man of fire,
Hot Hands Ricky 😂😂
This videos are so good. I got into Elden ring a few months late, so I've been binge Watching you channel like crazy
Smough what are your thoughts on potential dlc for elden ring do you believe it will expand on the stories of characters like miquella, the gloam eyed queen and even the various outer gods introduced in the lore of elden ring
I'm not sure tbh Noah because FS dlc can either be something that expands on an existing area (Artorias) or can be a completely new region of lore (Ringed city). Tbh I would hope for something in the middle; a bridging subject in the existing lore that takes into something brand new.
@@SmoughTown thank you for sharing your opinion and follow up question if they do go the ringed city route would you prefer FS to wrap up the lore of the new subject or leave it open ended for potential fan theories and deeper lore research?
@@noahheider264 Hmmm I personally would like to have it left open - I like how esoteric some of the lore is!