Birds have a different lift curve across the length of the wing, the so called Prandtl wing. The lift at the end of the wing goes to 0... if you notice, the end of the wing is not deflected up on a bird. Discovered by Prandtl in the teens of the last century.
I think, In a way, birds have vertical stabilizers because they (appear to be able to) curve, rotate and pitch their tail, kind of like an inverted V tail. That would be a pretty cool RC project with a slightly curved tail that can be rotated and pitched.
That's right, some of them can do that, and I'd say it's found in the smaller birds, but in the bigger ones you'll see that not all of them do that and some have a very short tail but still fly fine.
I like the robot analogy. I have always thought about it from the perspective of prosthetic limbs. If you lose one of your natural limbs science can give you a prosthetic to help make your life easier. But despite all of our advances in technology it will never be anywhere close to the real thing. The dexterity and sensory feedback of a natural limb just can't be duplicated. So to me jumping in the cockpit of an airplane is like strapping on a prosthetic set of wings. An airplane can help us to fly, but we can never truly experience real flight.
Someone found in trying to build a radio controlled bird, a bird's rudder is his head,. They tried flying a model bird without a rudder and it didn't fly. Then they added a clear rudder, but for a documentary it showed. Then some one figured out that it's the movement of the birds head. They hooked that up and it flew perfectly. plus a bird has a built in flight computer.
I fly wingsuits and it is exactly the same. My head is both my rudder and elevator. Everything else trailing acts as an airfoil and ailerons, glide and roll control. Cg in humans is not so good though, we are tail heavy and inefficient.
Great video. However, in civil aviation, we still need rudder to counteract xwinds when decrabing, to counteract yaw moments due to engine failure, to counteract prop effects and to sideslip 😅. Yes the birds are very efficient relatively to their weight, but if you want to move 450 souls safely at 900km/h, meaning traveling fast, feeding them, and letting them go for a sleep, you need something rigid, with a lot of redundancy and plenty of reserves in cases something goes wrong. Your video is very refreshing and enlightening tho. Kind regards.
For birds to fly is like for humans to ride a bicycle. So they don't need a rudder, they use their own balance just like humans do when riding a bicycle.
Correct! If they are undesirably rolling right, they turn their head left to shift its weight and tilt their tail left while maintaining a slight dihedral (v shape) in their wings. These combined actions right them effectively. Crisis averted. An airplane’s cockpit would have to be able to swing left and right and the horizontal stabilizer rotate either direction to accomplish this same task. Yikes! The pilots would have to be seated behind the swinging nose or they’d be in for a nauseating ride. YEHOVAH taught the birds well. Praise God for demonstrating to us his perfect understanding of all the sciences through his extraordinary creation!
Well not really.. Bikes are able to stabalize themselves with no rider as long as they're moving at a significant speed, the physics of which are still being debated. In your example its honestly just working with what you got. Also birds are very light and relatively small and dont have the drawbacks of something over 100lbs or 10,000lbs trying to fly. Making an airliner into something that flaps enough to lift and move the vehicle across the planet is impossible and pointless. Making a drone that can do it however isn't, and has been done about a decade ago.
the glide ratio is heavily dependant on the reynolds number the albatross does very nicely at it's size he only needs 3 meters wingspan for L/D of 25, while the Eta sailplane has a wingspan of 30m rc gliders with comparable size might reach an L/D of 20
@@marc_frank I believe you have challenged me to a pissing contest. I must warn you that I am an errant aerospace engineer and I've been pounding IPA's
@Marc Frank now we are talking! Thanks for acknowledging the silliness of attempting one-dimensional comparisons in multi-dimensional spaces. This doesn't match your criteria, but an aircraft I think is cool is the small ultralight sailplane by Windward Performance. It's an 11m span that achieves 36:1. I didn't research RC sailplanes yet because that is less interesting to me. What does your research yield? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_Performance_SparrowHawk
@@smithtorreysmith that one is really cool looks cute :) it's hard to find data for glide ratio of rc planes they would have to carry a gps and many people don't do that finding space for it is sometimes difficult as well iforce2d has done some measurements on his planes an ASW28 was 19 and an FPV plane had 8 or 9 i'd like to know how the arthobby sailplanes, or some full carbon ultra high performance ones compare i'll look some more
do you have a 3d printer? test the prandtl by eclipson the wingtips outboard of the vortecies do the job of elevator, rudder and winglets all combined the area of those individual surfaces might be greater than that of the wingtips wingspans of wings with elliptical lift distribution and bell shaped lift distribution should be compared between vortex centers, not physical span (my opinion) the physical wingspan of a bsld wing is ~22% larger than elliptical, at this comparison, both lift distributions provide the same coefficient of lift the bsld is the solution for lowest drag for a given mass the elliptical distribution is the solution for lowest drag for a given wingspan i'm not sure which lift distribution is useful for which application i suspect elliptical is good for minimum sink speed and carrying a lot of mass, but doing so "slower" (elliptical is used in the transsonic dp, the fastest model airplane in the world) eagles might be wingspan constrained by the size of thermals, they circle slowly, it's lift distribution appoaches more elliptical bsld might be good for speed and covering distance the wandering albatross does dynamic soaring and circles the earth multiple times a year, it's lift distribution appoaches more bell shaped
When you think about it bats are even more fascinating. They also don't have tail stabilizers but in top of that they don't have feathers either. When bird's fly and they flaps their wings the feathers compartmentalize leaving holes through the wing when they flap backwards so they don produce thrusts backwards that pulls tjem down and neither do they have resistance from the air while flapping backwards. Bats obviously don have feathers so they cannot do that but they still manage to fly less efficient than birds but still more efficiently than aircrafts energy wise. I am wondering what mechanism bats use to bypass this. But what bats do have that birds don't is that they still have their fingers which they can move individually to chnage the wings shape however they want giving them better maneuverability thats why bats are better flying in thigh places.
I figured out the problem. I had an EPIPHANY moment. The solution was so simple and elegant, when I SEEN it, I could not look at any man made wing EVER again. My solution is so elegant, it can be adapted to EVERY wing we have in design today...and I can prove it...on paper. If someone would listen to what I have to say I would love to talk to someone face to face.
Very superficial. How will a bird with six people on board fly? What will be the speed and range? Will it be able to perform a loop? Poplar fluff can cross the Atlantic, they say. But a nut is heavier - just not through the air.
OK, since you hit all around the answer.... let's try this: Most Aircraft, ( not all of them) need vertical stab for yaw control purposes. There are some that do not. Typically they use computer aids. One example is Northrop (later Northrop Grumman) B-2 Spirit. There are others. I designed and built flew a model aircraft that did not have vertical stabs as such. BIRDS: they have a form of vertical stabs. Yaw control comes from articulated ( biological) wings. Also their tail feathers work much like a V tail as used on Moony aircraft and many competition sailplanes. A bird can not fly with out tail feathers! Now you know the rest of the story ! Your welcome! more info? >. ruclips.net/video/ZOxwGKEytSw/видео.html
Have they not seen the birds above them, spreading and folding their wings? None holds them up except the Most Compassionate. Indeed, He is All-Seeing of everything. -the Quran
Birds have a different lift curve across the length of the wing, the so called Prandtl wing. The lift at the end of the wing goes to 0... if you notice, the end of the wing is not deflected up on a bird. Discovered by Prandtl in the teens of the last century.
Wow! A “Prandtl wing” search brought up so many interesting results. That was the magic word for this topic. Thank you so much, fellow Smith!
I hope this channel starts getting the recognition it deserves
“Because humans don’t know how to fly.” - best answer I’ve ever heard.
I think, In a way, birds have vertical stabilizers because they (appear to be able to) curve, rotate and pitch their tail, kind of like an inverted V tail. That would be a pretty cool RC project with a slightly curved tail that can be rotated and pitched.
That's right, some of them can do that, and I'd say it's found in the smaller birds, but in the bigger ones you'll see that not all of them do that and some have a very short tail but still fly fine.
That is true for "agile" birds. But a bird like the albatros has almost no tail, everything is done by the main wings.
I like the robot analogy. I have always thought about it from the perspective of prosthetic limbs. If you lose one of your natural limbs science can give you a prosthetic to help make your life easier. But despite all of our advances in technology it will never be anywhere close to the real thing. The dexterity and sensory feedback of a natural limb just can't be duplicated. So to me jumping in the cockpit of an airplane is like strapping on a prosthetic set of wings. An airplane can help us to fly, but we can never truly experience real flight.
Someone found in trying to build a radio controlled bird, a bird's rudder is his head,. They tried flying a model bird without a rudder and it didn't fly. Then they added a clear rudder, but for a documentary it showed. Then some one figured out that it's the movement of the birds head. They hooked that up and it flew perfectly. plus a bird has a built in flight computer.
I fly wingsuits and it is exactly the same. My head is both my rudder and elevator. Everything else trailing acts as an airfoil and ailerons, glide and roll control. Cg in humans is not so good though, we are tail heavy and inefficient.
thank you for teaching me something new today. please keep up the great content, Joyplanes RC!
Great video. However, in civil aviation, we still need rudder to counteract xwinds when decrabing, to counteract yaw moments due to engine failure, to counteract prop effects and to sideslip 😅.
Yes the birds are very efficient relatively to their weight, but if you want to move 450 souls safely at 900km/h, meaning traveling fast, feeding them, and letting them go for a sleep, you need something rigid, with a lot of redundancy and plenty of reserves in cases something goes wrong.
Your video is very refreshing and enlightening tho. Kind regards.
You sound sooooo similar to LEMMiNO i was convinced it was the same person until i saw your face! great video :)
Both Amazing channels!
Glad you provided link to Prandtl, but why not talk about Prandtl lift distribution in video?
Nice video
Which software you use for animation?
After effects and cinema 4D for the 3D graphics
I find it so funny that humans just see a bird flying, and think “yeah, let’s do that”
For birds to fly is like for humans to ride a bicycle. So they don't need a rudder, they use their own balance just like humans do when riding a bicycle.
Correct! If they are undesirably rolling right, they turn their head left to shift its weight and tilt their tail left while maintaining a slight dihedral (v shape) in their wings. These combined actions right them effectively. Crisis averted. An airplane’s cockpit would have to be able to swing left and right and the horizontal stabilizer rotate either direction to accomplish this same task. Yikes! The pilots would have to be seated behind the swinging nose or they’d be in for a nauseating ride. YEHOVAH taught the birds well. Praise God for demonstrating to us his perfect understanding of all the sciences through his extraordinary creation!
Well not really.. Bikes are able to stabalize themselves with no rider as long as they're moving at a significant speed, the physics of which are still being debated. In your example its honestly just working with what you got. Also birds are very light and relatively small and dont have the drawbacks of something over 100lbs or 10,000lbs trying to fly. Making an airliner into something that flaps enough to lift and move the vehicle across the planet is impossible and pointless. Making a drone that can do it however isn't, and has been done about a decade ago.
Thanks I have been trying to find what was the opposite of Averse Yaw and now I know. Proverse YAW, thank you.
some people don't like that term
they prefer "positive roll-yaw coupling"
@@marc_frank I referred to it as complimentary yaw as I didn't know the name.
@@allenmoore9848 makes sense, too :)
An Albatross has a glide ratio of about 25:1, while the best sailplanes are around 70:1. In this metric we slam birds.
the glide ratio is heavily dependant on the reynolds number
the albatross does very nicely at it's size
he only needs 3 meters wingspan for L/D of 25, while the Eta sailplane has a wingspan of 30m
rc gliders with comparable size might reach an L/D of 20
@@marc_frank I believe you have challenged me to a pissing contest. I must warn you that I am an errant aerospace engineer and I've been pounding IPA's
@@smithtorreysmith let's start pissing ;)
are there any 3m model sailplanes with an L/D over 25?
@Marc Frank now we are talking! Thanks for acknowledging the silliness of attempting one-dimensional comparisons in multi-dimensional spaces. This doesn't match your criteria, but an aircraft I think is cool is the small ultralight sailplane by Windward Performance. It's an 11m span that achieves 36:1. I didn't research RC sailplanes yet because that is less interesting to me. What does your research yield?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_Performance_SparrowHawk
@@smithtorreysmith that one is really cool
looks cute :)
it's hard to find data for glide ratio of rc planes
they would have to carry a gps and many people don't do that
finding space for it is sometimes difficult as well
iforce2d has done some measurements on his planes
an ASW28 was 19 and an FPV plane had 8 or 9
i'd like to know how the arthobby sailplanes, or some full carbon ultra high performance ones compare
i'll look some more
So why plane with two engine and use differential thrust designed with vertical stabilizer?
Just watched tutorials from you for Arduino and now a video. Nice
I actually didn't know this!
5:30 I would start with modifying the wing tips of Burt Rutan's Long EZ.
What editing app do you use?
I love your videos! Great work
do you have a 3d printer? test the prandtl by eclipson
the wingtips outboard of the vortecies do the job of elevator, rudder and winglets all combined
the area of those individual surfaces might be greater than that of the wingtips
wingspans of wings with elliptical lift distribution and bell shaped lift distribution should be compared between vortex centers, not physical span (my opinion)
the physical wingspan of a bsld wing is ~22% larger than elliptical, at this comparison, both lift distributions provide the same coefficient of lift
the bsld is the solution for lowest drag for a given mass
the elliptical distribution is the solution for lowest drag for a given wingspan
i'm not sure which lift distribution is useful for which application
i suspect elliptical is good for minimum sink speed and carrying a lot of mass, but doing so "slower" (elliptical is used in the transsonic dp, the fastest model airplane in the world)
eagles might be wingspan constrained by the size of thermals, they circle slowly, it's lift distribution appoaches more elliptical
bsld might be good for speed and covering distance
the wandering albatross does dynamic soaring and circles the earth multiple times a year, it's lift distribution appoaches more bell shaped
I have long suspected the beak, head and flexible neck of a bird, provide a rudder equivalence in flight.
No me avia dado cuenta que pusiste subtitulos en español gracias por esa atención
Birds don't need a vertical fin to fly for the same reason humans don't need a balance bar to walk upright.
When you think about it bats are even more fascinating. They also don't have tail stabilizers but in top of that they don't have feathers either. When bird's fly and they flaps their wings the feathers compartmentalize leaving holes through the wing when they flap backwards so they don produce thrusts backwards that pulls tjem down and neither do they have resistance from the air while flapping backwards. Bats obviously don have feathers so they cannot do that but they still manage to fly less efficient than birds but still more efficiently than aircrafts energy wise. I am wondering what mechanism bats use to bypass this. But what bats do have that birds don't is that they still have their fingers which they can move individually to chnage the wings shape however they want giving them better maneuverability thats why bats are better flying in thigh places.
❤❤❤❤JoyPlanes!
Hola joy publicaras este video igual en la otra cuenta no
Birds don't need a vertical stabilizer because they don't care about flying perfectly straight... They make subtle adjustments with fluid wings
I figured out the problem. I had an EPIPHANY moment. The solution was so simple and elegant, when I SEEN it, I could not look at any man made wing EVER again. My solution is so elegant, it can be adapted to EVERY wing we have in design today...and I can prove it...on paper. If someone would listen to what I have to say I would love to talk to someone face to face.
Lol what is the solution
Will you upload the video to the Spanish channel?
Yes. But next week.
Muchas gracias!
Or... perhaps a (THE) genius creator designed the bird.
Congratulations on a spetacular introduction to flying wings....... keep walking!!
great idea for content ...
Good links!
Hola no sabía que tenías un canal en inglés
That's so cool.
Tangent: you sound almost exactly like Vincent Cassel (the French actor).
Horten flying wings? 🤓
Thank you! Looked it up. So cool!
Vertical stabilizer has nothing to do with creature being smart or dumb. Did you know fishes have vertical fins?
Very superficial. How will a bird with six people on board fly? What will be the speed and range? Will it be able to perform a loop?
Poplar fluff can cross the Atlantic, they say. But a nut is heavier - just not through the air.
its ok to say birds were designed to fly also
you dont program a robot to walk u program a robot to learn and teach its self to walk like a baby
OK, since you hit all around the answer.... let's try this:
Most Aircraft, ( not all of them) need vertical stab for yaw control purposes. There are some that do not. Typically they use computer aids. One example is Northrop (later Northrop Grumman) B-2 Spirit. There are others. I designed and built flew a model aircraft that did not have vertical stabs as such.
BIRDS: they have a form of vertical stabs. Yaw control comes from articulated ( biological) wings. Also their tail feathers work much like a V tail as used on Moony aircraft and many competition sailplanes. A bird can not fly with out tail feathers!
Now you know the rest of the story ! Your welcome!
more info? >. ruclips.net/video/ZOxwGKEytSw/видео.html
So why do fishés untt Sharks bé Havé Vértic⣠Stabilisérs ¿¿¿¿
Brids are original god design but plans are human design...he miss this one lol
Yeah... but can they fly inverted? Do loop de loops?
Checkmate, birdies!
I am still very envious of the flapping for lift abilities. Thumbs are pretty good but I would give them up for flight in a heart beat.
👍
You should make a rc bird.🙂
ruclips.net/channel/UCZIpWjKDrv0qHgJHH0LeSkQ
Well airplane is bigger! And birds have variable airfoil...
What is your native language?
Don't birds have a built in stabilizer in their brain?
It's the head
Earliest I’ve been!
Jabajabajaba…. Even the link doesn’t work!!
summary: human don't have as much control on the wing shape as birds do
Do i see a young charlie sheen there ????
Hola joy
9
hallo am early as heck so are you
Wow I'm early?
Have they not seen the birds above them, spreading and folding their wings? None holds them up except the Most Compassionate. Indeed, He is All-Seeing of everything.
-the Quran
rather the question should be,"why planes do not have horizontal fins only?"
4th veiw