The size of what you are asking to be created is small as a grain, its just a firmware flash chip. It will never happen Z. Sound processor is the most you can ask for but you can ask for processors without license and then having to purchase the license for each decoder that you just need. In short, you want surround processors without any license and then you choose what you want, example: i want only Dolby digital, processor then prompts you to a online screen and you make the purchase of Dolby license.
BEFORE IT IS BROUGHT UP! I am aware the dac's would be De-Synced and timing would be off between them. BUT this would be compensated by systems like Audyssey or so small it is inconsequential. I use to separate dacs in my current HT with no negative impacts on balance or anything else I can perceive.
not only that, but the DAC would have to be Dolby certified with piracy protection and this would drive up the cost for each DAC. Therefore the DA conversion must happen in the device thats decoding the surround signal so just get a decent surround processor with good build in DACs
@@juliangst I think this could be circumvented if you sell the 8 channel processing and the sacs in a combo unit. Ofc I habe 0 knowledge about the actual dolby certification process and prices, just an idea
@@BenjyP. this might works but makes no sense to do because you would end up with basically a processor in different boxes. What Z wants is to use his own dacs but I think thats not possible for those licensing reasons
I did sound for a 1 off movie premier and we had all the amps backstage. We dropped a dante rack by the media server guys up in the projection booth. Using virtual soundcard they were able to simply plug an ethernet into their machine, send the 7.1 over the dante network which was carried over fiber backstage to a small console which spat out AES to the amps. Literally digital all the way from the source to the amplifier. Shit sounded so clean.
@@ZReviews Dante certainly seems like overkill, but I know people with home studios that use dante because they can easily run audio from one room in the house to another simply using the installed house cat5e. I wish more home audio companies implemented networked audio.
I think I would go with Dante, with Dante "Via" you should be able to set Foobar to stereo, and your movie program to 7.1 or even 14.2 and then run any these 16 Channels to any individual dac/amp. But I am just a 19-year-old student who neither has a home cinema nor the money for a Dante-setup, but with an interest in Pro-audio. But yea, Dante is probably overkill. But I would definitely like to see it.
@@aaronpieper3978 he could run Ethernet through his house and do all kinds of crazy stuff with a dante network sending audio and video around to different places
It's going to a world where you just replace the brains and not the horsepower when you need an upgrade. It's going exactly where prosumer home networking is going (a la UBNT) where it's all separates and you can mix and match to your heart's content.
I did think of that too, but maybe if you're licenced to decode DTS/Dolby you could get away with splitting out separate PCM channels over something like TOSLINK. I think it would be difficult and pointless to re-encode the audio back to the original mix for the sake of piracy without the video signal anyway?
I couldn't agree more about this. I've always wanted a modern surround processor (with Atmos and DTS-X decoding) which can output the raw *digital* audio channels. But I'm almost certain there is a very good reason they don't do this on most commercial receivers... You mentioned in the vid about it "not breaking DMCA / HDCP" to have digital outputs, and that the Oppo Blu-Ray player is one of the few you've ever seen with digital outputs for all channels. It's precisely that - AFAIK, part of the normal licensing for the modern lossless Dolby and DTS formats is that the manufacturers aren't allowed to output the decoded digital channels directly. (unless they pay a hell of a lot more for the licensing, which is what I think Oppo might have done). I don't know 100% if that's the case, but I have a strong feeling that's the reason. Hollywood, and the HDMI "forum" absolutely want to minimize access to the bit-perfect digital signals that get decoded off a Blu Ray disk. And the same for most of the audio on streaming services. Which is kinda silly, considering it's not too hard to do bit-perfect rips of Blu Ray disks (including 4K UHD disks), and even streaming services using a PC anyway. But yeah, as far as most commercial AV receivers and processors go, I think that's the main reason they don't have digital outputs on them.
There's also no software decoder for the object-based formats like Atmos nor DTS-X yet, AFAIK. EDIT: I think there *might* be decoding for some of the object-based formats on the latest version of PowerDVD, or something like that. But I found it nearly impossible to find that for Atmos, unless it was the stripped-down gaming version of Atmos. Not unless you spend many thousands on the full Dolby or DTS software suites for doing the encoding/decoding, which often involves NDAs and other stuff. I don't even know for sure if their own software allows outputting the raw digital signals for each channel, vs just previewing it via HDMI/HDCP. This is why I'm taking a different approach - I've designed my own PCB with a Cirrus DSP chip, FPGA (for signal routing etc.), and an Analog Devices DSP for bass management / room correction. That takes the 4-bit I2S stream from the HDMI board (which can pass through 4K video, and only extract the audio stream), decodes it (including TrueHD/Atmos, or DTS-MA/DTS-X), and spits out raw I2S streams for the DAC(s). The other-other way of doing this is to just modify an existing commercial AV receiver or processor with the digital outputs. It's not too hard to do (I added SPDIF output to a satellite receiver around 2001). But obviously it would require some soldering, to tap off the I2S outputs from the DSP chip, then convert to SPDIF/AES. I was just watching your vid on when you ditched the 30ft analog cables in your setup, and was blown away by the quality of routing digital around the room and to the DACs. The one big problem here is - volume control. (which you also mention in this vid.) If the volume control is done in the digital realm, then you are severely limiting the number of bits, and therefore the dynamic range at lower volumes. If you had SPDIF outputs from a surround decoder, you'd have to figure out the best way to do volume control for that, too. It would be far better to just have full-volume outputs from the decoder's digital outputs, then handle the volume control between the DACs and amps. (many DACs have internal volume control in the DAC chip itself, which is done on the analog outputs. Some of them have pretty good specs, from what I've read.)
Oh, interesting tidbit... On many of the AV receivers that decode say 7 channels (so 7.1, or 5.1.2), the DSP chip has extra I2S pins that are left totally disconnected / unused. And quite often, it's the SAME firmware on the DSP that is used in the higher-end models which can decode say 11 channels or more. It's just that the the main MCU sends different SPI commands which disable those extra output channels on the DSP chip. So in theory, there are many models of "7 channel" AV receivers (from the likes of Denon and Onkyo) that could be modified to decode 9, 11, or maybe even 13 channels. That would also require some custom boards and some soldering, but it looks doable. At least on the receivers I've seen which use the very common Cirrus DSP chip.
Hai i am from India , i have the same openion about Atmos it's just bull shit with no audio in the height channel , i truly believe that auro 3 D has a better algorithm in it's auromatic upmixer which places sound right where are supposed to be , Atmos is a joke , Dolby Pro logic 2 had better algorithm and could place sounds in all the speakers , they claim that Atmos is a object based format while in reality it's just a channel based audio with fucked up algorithm
This video unfortunately told me everything I needed to know about my current situation : what I want doesn't exist in my price range. I use a computer for my 'home theater', and I was looking for a decent way to externally amp my front tower speakers without losing 4.1 capabilities. Thanks for the video Zeos.
We had Surround Decoders in the 90s lol. That was for analog Lt/Rt encoded LCRS, the same format as the original Dolby Stereo 35mm format. What you want is an HDMI processor/converter, decoding a lossless Dolby/DTS bitstream to LPCM and spitting out up to 7.1 over digital. The reason this isn't allowed is for HDMI/Copy Protection crap mainly. But there is actually 1 legit solution STILL made and it's from Meridian, a company who hasn't embraced the whole "object based" surround formats and specializes in giving you the best sounding pure multi-channel music and 7.1 HT experience. They don't use HDMI decoding in their processors as they prefer to keep it outside of the system, so they use a specialized HDMI Processor that is fed from a UHD BD Player (That does the TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding to LPCM) and the raw 8-Channel lossless PCM is then extracted and sent over "Smartlink", 4 Digital Coax outputs, in pairs for all 8 channels. The newer ones use something called MMHR, an ethernet connection to do the same 8 channel PCM transfer, but still include the Digital Coax 4x 7.1 output. Despite Meridian saying its "encrypted' it's actually not, what is encrypted is their 96K upsampling tech, but you could use a Meridian HDMI 621 or 722 processor, have it fed decoded LPCM 7.1 over HDMI from your BD player and you will get 4x 8 channel pure digital outputs and you'd be able to feed 4x benchmark dacs like they did in the exhibit you were talking about. I use an HDMI 621 with my Accuphase VX-700 to feed it lossless surround from a Sony UHD Player since it only does lossy internal decoding. The Accuphase had 4x Digital Coax 8ch inputs for an outboard DSP system of theirs but it works all the same as I use it lol. The Accuphase is really an incredible Pre-Pro, shame they stopped making them. And I have an another 621 in an actual Meridian 7.1 system where it's used "as intended". The other reason why these don't exist from mass market options besides the obvious HDMI/Copy Protection fiasco is that surround sound is moving away from being channel based and moving to something that is spatially encoded (Atmos/DTS:X) and then gets processed and sent to certain channels to simulate sound in space as opposed to them being premixed. Atmos is massively overrated though, really good 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc is always gonna blow away crappy fake Atmos you see with all these soundbars now a days anyway. That Tascam was a nice AVR, I had the same one too about 8-9 years ago. It's the pro audio version of the Integras, and from the same TEAC/Onkyo/Integra family of brands. Good stuff.
You can use Virtual Audio Cable and Audio Repeater to do this. Use the virtual cable to have (multiple) surround sound capable playback device(s) on Windows and then use the audio repeater to split the surround sound into multiple dacs. Use one virtual cable as the main source, route it to another virtual cable(s), and then route two channels of that into the desired sound device (dac). So for example, create 3 different virtual cable. VC1, VC2, VC3 (don't forget to set all of them as a surround device). Route all the VC1 surround channels to VC2 and VC3 (using two instances of audio repeater). From there, you can route say, Front Left and Front Right channels from VC2 to a dac, and then route Surround Left and Surround Right channel from VC3 to a different dac. Since VC2 and VC3 are duplicates of VC1 (the main source), its basically the same as splitting VC1 into multiple dacs (I tried directly splitting VC1 to multiple dacs but it doesn't work. Hence you need a VC2 and VC3, a virtual cable for each dac). And there you go, surround sound split into multiple dacs. I did this because I only have one decent stereo amp so I wanted to split (extract) the Front and Center channels to the stereo amp and let a cheap home theater receiver handle the rest of the channels. ps. i use virtual audio cable and audio repeater from muzychenko. you cant use the free version if you want to use multiple virtual audio cable tho i dont think there is quality degradation as long as you keep the audio format (sample rate, bit depth etc) consistent across all virtual cable and devices but i never tested/checked play around with the buffer and pre-fill settings on the audio repeater if the sound is 'glitchy'
edit: nevermind, zeos touched on this a bit further into the video. There's two ways I know of to get surround digital outputs *from a computer.* these methods are of course limited to what a PC can decode, so no Atmos or anything like that. The "proper way:" professional AES/EBU sound cards. 8 or even 16 stereo channels. of course you wouldn't get fancy room correction/delay compensation/Audyssey/whatever, but you can do that from a nanodigi anyways, right? The "extreme jank please never ever do this" way: pulseaudio in Linux allows you to bond together as many sound devices as you'd like. 16 USB to SPDIF converters hanging off your PC? sure. *However,* I spent months trying to get two cheapo usb sound cards to play nice together and it will work but occasionally one would become delayed for no apparent reason, and glitches are aplenty.
after some digging there's the RME Digiface USB, literally a USB sound card with 4*stereo SPDIF outs, but it's $500. @UCBGWmgxU-zSWNUYDgZ-Q4fg i doubt the STX can decode atmos, it might be decoding just the underlying TrueHD or Digital Plus streams, and not actually the full atmos experience. More importantly, can you even adjust the outputs to the height channel? because if not it'd be rather useless...
This is similar to what Steinway Lyngdorf, Trinnov, and Datasat do. Trinnov and Datasat have the digital connection from the decoder/processor to the amp. Their amps and a couple others. SL does it differently and I think they have digital amps. It's unfortunately a very expensive system but if you compare it to other high end home theater systems it's comparable. Their room perfect eq doesn't require acoustic treatments.
You can do this. Or pretty close at least. You can buy the license to DTSx and/or Atmos In windows and using a digital audio cable(s) (hificable uses asio) you should be able to route each piece of the audio accordingly L, R, etc. To each independent dac/amp. And to add, you can also use Equalizer APO and fuck with eqs and everything under the sun.
I wonder if there is a way to do this with linux+raspberry pi and make a dedicated headless unit. I'm sure it's a huge if since dolby would say F-off to open source anything. Maybe there is a way to run windows binarys through wine emulation. Hmmm.. Someone out there has to be able to know if this is feasible.
If you can decode the signal in windows, you can feed that into the minidsp 88D as digital input and do all the splitting, timing correction and what not in there. At least I think so :)
@@fieldcar ffmpeg can decode dolby anything short of atmos (atmos enabled content decodes as TrueHD surround) and DTS anything short of DTS:X. So if you're not planning on adding a height channel it should already be possible now.
@@xureality Didn't know of ffmpeg. Just did a little looksee, and I would agree. Possibly, use ffmpeg to decode,set up a server to use ffplay to stream the individual channels,or pairs/whatever over network to Pi's-USB-DAC-Amp-Spkr. ..... Big question, ... finding someone/anyone who has thought about this and, possibly started the endeavour, or someone who knows how to use the building blocks to put this together. Wish I had the coding chops, but alas, I find myself wanting......... Somebody here, or, Z's extended crew, has got to know how to code this...
Actually, what we need is surround processors (with dac) AND vst plugins. Any old 150$ laptop will run a plethora of FREE vst plugins that will put to shame ANY surround decoder at ANY price point. In other words, we need pc soundcards with arc/earc inputs that's not overpriced to the moon. That'd put pretty much all these overpriced home theater companies out of busyness overnight.
I see more people buying the purely digital version, me included, because this is fir asholes that already have a high end dac. This would be the best device to get stereo people into multichannel.
Hi Zeos, The best surround sound Decoder I have is a modified Silicon Chip Surround Decoder PT.2 from the 1990’s. This is a Dolby Pro-Logic decoder that was purchased in kit form and which was modified and built with better Op Amps, power supply and attenuators by my good friend and audio engineer Joe Rasmussen of Custom Analogue in Sydney Australia. It just uses Dolby and there is no atmos or thx but it sounds amazing hooked up to my custom made mono blocks in 5.1 surround sound setup. I also have a Onkyo TX-NR626 Receiver which is relatively good for what it is at its price point but, doesn’t come close to my custom setup.
A practical way to design a processor/AVR with external DAC support would be to supply the Digital outputs for the channels in pairs and an analog input for each pair of channels. The DAC would convert the digital signal and send it back at line level and the processor/AVR can so the rest with the analog signal. That will allow users to control volume, delay, EQ, etc from the processor/AVR, this would also allow people to use different quality dacs for different channel. It would be simular to how the Pioneer RMX-500 is patched into a DJM-900NXS mixer board using the SEND/RECEIEVE. Doesn't seem expensive from a design/manufacturing standpoint, but yea they are not going to spend a penny on it if it doesn't sell more units.
Here's the problem with what you're asking, and my apologies if you addressed it later in the video, but it's too long to watch in its entirety. PCM output doesn't have a volume meta data*, it's a pure digital representation of an analog wave. This mean you would have to adjust the volume in each DAC/AMP. You could use a multi channel DAC/AMP, in which case, you now made a processor. * You could control the volume of PCM, by reducing the wave's amplitude, but you'll be losing resolution the lower you go.
The Expanse!!! Hell yes!!! This seasons production is notably better. Big money on those effects! My 7.2.4 set up I am moving to a few 4channel QSC CX Amps and I looking at processors now. Interesting take. My biggest grip with processors is changing formats. I have outdated my reviewers way to fast. And that theater should be a full JBL 5 series with biamp'd fronts with active Xovers!!! FYI JBL 530s on sale again today.. under 300 /pair. Bought 4 for my atmos/surrounds, 150 bucks each for decent surrounds...
@@morris7025 opps.. I ordered 4. That's crazy. I have a pair of the 580s I got a week ago and so far loving them. I have the bug to upgrade to the 590s for my fronts still. The base out of this dual 6.5" set up is insane, but it sucks my current done x4000 dry. You can tell they are asking for more power.... Oh the decisions... but unless I see that sale come back..I did want the 570s more than the 530s, but at 150 each they devistate my SVS prime elevations and I am going to have the JBLs do the theater room kit. And move my SVS kit upstairs to the living room. The price to performance on these JBLs on sale is just stupid.
He's not looking for the converters, he wants the surround decoding. He'd also want the Apollo x8 cause he's doing 7.1.. though Id go Focusrite Red instead. No tech/money wasted on plug in dsp. and its dante enabled for ethernet connectivity.. When I set up my atmos mix suite that's the way I'm going.
@@AlexisGitarre yes. They just introduced a multi source (up to 7.1.2) monitor controller that works through Dante. With the Red 16Line you can monitor an Dolby atmos analog mix.
Most of the higher end processors, like the Emotiva RMC-1 and RMC-1L, actually have audiophile DACs in them and the RMC-1 in particular has an individual DAC for every one of its 16 channels. The cheaper XMC-2 has individual DACs for the front 3 channels and then one DAC for every other two channels after that. I have the XMC-2 and it sounds pretty amazing for a surround sound processor. You should try to get Emotiva to send your both of those for testing.
The problem is that all most people want is 7.2 channels and you can't get a high end surround processor that's only 7.2 channels. I don't want to pay for those extra 3-4 dacs in a 16 channel processor if I'm not going to use them. If the units were separate and you could choose your own components and how many channels you want, then you could get much higher quality sound at a lower price.
Emotiva RMC-1 are still trash AVR meaning closed software with planned obsolescence. With a PC you can do ANYTHING. Just the ability to use VST plugins would make any Trinnov or Stormaudio look like a child toy. Also... Emotiva is anything BUT quality. Their gear have been measured several times and the implementation is anythng but stellar.
I'd be into this as well. Make the thing firmware upgradable to add new licenses for codecs. Bonus points for modular so the hdmi subsystem can be upgraded for when 2.2 or later comes out. Will pay the moneys for that
okay, just saying, but what you're looking for is a digital transcoder. There appears to be a few on the market, I can't find any from a major manufacturer. The ones I've seen so far (I've only been looking since I watched this video), are of dubious quality, but what does quality matter when everything is staying digital? regardless, if you google "surround transcoder", you'll get some amazon/ebay links to devices that, on the surface, appear to be digital audio extractors for HDMI or similar, however, several have the option to output (whether digital or analog) either 2ch, 5.1ch or passthru/bypass. The bypass gives the full compressed Dolby/DTS/whatever signal to a downstream audio device, but what's interesting is that some are showing that if you select 5.1/7.1 instead of bypass/passthru, they will actually _do the dolby decompression_ and send out LPCM digital 5.1/7.1 to the downstream (optical/coax) device. hook that up to a miniDSP nanoDIGI, split off the LPCM surround channels into the outputs for Front L/R, surround L/R, surround back L/R, and Center/SUB and voila. now you have what you need to route the audio to the various zones. IF THIS WORKS (had to be caps, this is a big if), then it solves the problem. Not gracefully mind you, but well enough to achieve the goal. I'll refrain from linking anything because I don't want to make the YT gods angry, and also, I don't know if any of this works, these are cheap products, and I have no idea if they work, or how well. None of them seem to have brands, and if they do have a brand, it's a brand I've never heard of before. - but since they're cheap and you need this, maybe pick one up and see if it does the job? maybe through amazon so you can return it if it's an utter failure? I love audiophile stuff, but I'm probably more surround leaning, I've never had reason to question my current home theatre setup, but this video has me thinking. Thanks Zeos.
Meridian have been doing this since the 90s. A 568 processor (pre 2000) sends digital or analog data to either an analogue amp or digital speakers with a DAC and amp built in. However, why? The DAC’s in the processor are transparent and using separate amps in a small room (less than 200m) is perfect 👌🏽 There are no improvements to be had by doing what you suggest. DAC are transparent these days, you won’t show any measurements that prove you hear any improvement. You can’t get better than transparent. That’s why it didn’t catch on 20 years ago.
Yes please, this. Someone build this please. I use miniDSP for all channels so going to analogue before translating back to digital feels like such a painfull step and especially pointless ...
The HDCP agreement means a device isn't allowed to output high res digital out of the HDMI input. So you'd be limited to 48kHz 16bit stereo. And if you want more the device can't be HDCP compliant which basically means goodbye streaming services and Bluray, so nobody makes these. I guess you'd have to pirate remuxed and copyright protection stripped content even if you're already paying for it. Arvus H2-UDMA exists(?) but is sadly a couple thousand $. HDMI in to basically anything (including AES/EBU) at once. MADI Optical and Coax is an extra cost. Does everything DTS and Dolby including Atmos. (Arvus HDMI-2A is cheaper but no atmos, also old)
@@ZReviews I'm a complete noob....but....could it be worth checking out newer AVR offerings. I have to believe they've come a long way from 7 years ago when it comes to the internal dacs these AVR's have. Probbaly not the best of the best (what is what you're looking for) but got to be better than Teac 7 year old AVR DAC no?
@@icyphilippe It's 16bit 48kHz stereo not surround for LPCM out. Some devices bypass this restriction by presenting the digital out as ARC in which case the LPCM restriction still applies, but bitstreaming lossy surround formats becomes an option. The problem is that you could make such a product (like the one I mentioned) but it's already niche and it just won't sell without HDCP support. You could make it switch depending on if the input is HDCP encrypted or not and receivers like that exist (like ISP mk2) but they come at an absurd price range. You could get a splitter that "accidentally" strips HDCP which would allow you to make it work but it's a bit of a gray area and nobody wants to make a product that relies on that to be used.
Here’s what you need: HDMI splitter that can strip HDCP, a pci-e capture card Avermedia Live Gamer 4K (can capture video stream with 7.1 pcm), OBS for capturing that 7.1 and convert to direct sound 7.1, Voicemeter for splitting that 7.1 signal to different USB/optical/coaxial output.
The HDCP strip would help so things further along don't have to be compatible but you're getting a 7.1 dts or dolby most of the time so as the capture card can only do 7.1 lpcm that won't work. Voicemeeter is also kinda potato as far as splitting channels and its impact on audio quality considering it resamples things.
@@jusmirtic Not sure what you mean, but it works for my Apple TV. I’m not saying that you should use that HDMI for audio output(ARC doesn’t work with this), but use it for “video” output. My Apple TV for example pass unencrypted 7.1 PCM to my TV together with video. I split that signal to my capture card, then to my GSX-1000 for HRTF 7.1. As for Voicemeter’s quality, I believe that you can change the sample rate
@@kennethschoen7796 Because there are only two companies that make dolby surround chips, panasonic and sony. And both of them have only one current day DAC chip that both decodes the HDCP protocol and converts to analogue in the same chip, so no way to get the digital signal out before the dac. Dolby would also never allow it.
my setup is an Evolve II-4K HDMI v2.0 / Multi-Channel DAC - 7.1 RCA output and a HDMI 4k video out. It can decode DTS MA and Dolby Digital Tru HD. This is fed into a Minidsp DDRC-88 for Dirac Room Correction and volume control etc. It costs very little compared to other surround processors/ decoder in the market.
Cool dac but its still four stereo dacs shoved in a $300 box. Have you tried going to the DDRC-88 with a single hq signal? Compare the outputs for 2 channel listening?
@@ZReviews only thing I can think off that has a higher quality 2ch signal might be the Minidsp shd I own for my 2ch with 2 subs system down stairs. I'll hook up the minidsp shd to the ddrc and disable Dirac on the shd to see if it makes any difference. I also have a Fostex HPA8 DAC headphone amp to try but it's RCA outputs are noisy (possibly broken)
Monoprice hdmi audio extractor(H.A.E.). On amazon. $50. It gives a two channel, and optical output. I would place the H.A.E. inline between the pc and the projector. (Disclaimer I'm not certain surround is output via optical but for $50 it's worth a shot) I would see if you can use the nano digi to take in the optical from the output of the H.A.E. and output 4 stereo coaxial to 4 separate stereo dacs of your choosing for a 7.1 channel setup. Idea 2, if 7.1 isn't output from H.A.E. via optical, I have a late 00's model Yamaha htr-5990 with a toslink out. So I know that at one point there were manufacturers that were doing it, before dmca was finalized possibly..? Third idea, the RME Digiface USB Portable Digital Audio Interface is a USB 2.0 24/192 4 in 4 out day, and spdif digital interface. The included software looks like a potential solution as well. Albeit a bit more of an investment at $500.. buuuuut, it does look intriguing. Sooooooooo in this case is run pc usb audio out to the Digiface via the included software, then from there optical spdif to 4 separate dacs ruclips.net/video/pFkIVRIkLJk/видео.html
TLDR Oppo-UDP-205 has good enough DACs! I would buy your solution if it was produced. However, for now, I do something similar using an old receiver and am very happy with the result. I am still running my 20 year old original Denon 5800 receiver just as an amp and using the Oppo UDP-205 as the DAC and processor. The Oppo has reasonably good DACs. It has a separate 2-channel DAC section for stereo that sounds phenomenal which I have a streamer hooked up to and fed into the CD input. As an added bonus, it is possible to run the 5800 as a 5.1 system and use the 6th and 7th full power channels to bi-amp large towers on the FL & FR channels. You have level control on each section of the bi-amp so you could lower the level on the horns or tune your speakers as desired on the fly. I use this to add or remove a little brightness on the high end depending on the album. I have seen the 5800 go as cheep as a few hundred dollars used.
I definitely would buy that!!!! I have 2 miniDSP's, 2 nanoDSP's and 2 mini U-DIO8's. I have two multi-channel HT / Stereo setups. I hope Emotiva or Schiit Audio would make a DSP unit like you have described....Can't wait!!!
I was thinking about the DAC in my PC. Someone told me I needed to buy some external DAC for quality reasons. I tried to comparison my ASUS motherboard DAC with the DAC in the Aiyima T9 pro. I couldn't hear any differences. I also wondered why couldn't the software synch up multiple external sound production devices on USB Optical, etc so I could use all external for surround instead of my 3.5mm 7.1 pc outputs. I bet software would have a hard time keeping everything in sync. This could also apply to a model where one company makes a set of multiple digital outputs. How do you account for any decoding latency of conversion on the many different devices you connect them to. The source has no control for synching it up. I bet it would be more cost effective to build the single source with better quality.
@@ZReviews oooooo, I got one. WHY THE FUCK ARE PROPER CABLES SO FUCKING EXPENSIVE??? LIKE 50$ FOR A CABLE? WTF? AND JUST CABLES IN GENERAL, WHY DO YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT CONNECTION THAT COSTS 200$, YOU HAVE A CABLE THAT LOOKS NORMAL, BUT HAS SOME DUMB FUCKERY THAT DOSENT WORK ON ANYTHING AHHHH
Where would the volume control be? Digital volume control would be less desirable. You’d need a multi channel preamp after the d/a conversation I think.
A $100Schitt Modi DAC blew away my $2200 Marantz SR7013. No contest. Not even close. The DACs in receivers suck, or maybe it’s just the implementation wired into all the other circuitry as opposed to having a dedicated box handling it independent of the circuitry drawing the signal straight to the amp. I was so shocked but now I know. I want this too. I have since air figured this out last year. Now, I listen to more 2ch music in my home theatre because it sounds so much better.
You already have what you want. Both those boxes on your table have it. You just need to strip away the extra bits. Maybe buy a cheaper 2nd hand surround processor to experiment on? Just looking at that Emotive it's clear which bits are the decoder and which are the DAC.
To be honest all I really want is a decoder/processor that costs like $200, like the DACs in a $200 receiver are... fine. I don't see why they couldn't make up for the nicheness of the product by not having to provide amps. I really just want it for my backyard cinema where I'm using a big PA system with electrovoice eliminators to provide sound, not critical listening but you want it to sound good and loud AF. I might just bite the bullet and get the emotiva at some point but it's a hard sell for something that only gets used a half dozen times a year.
Makes sense to me! Interesting what you said about trying out the two channel JDS DAC with your Tascam AVR. I don’t do multichannel in my small space but I’m using an AVR to power my two channel system. My cheap Sony DVD player is also my CD transport and I found that my mid-level Denon receiver’s internal DAC sounds noticeably better than the Sony’s. Lately I’ve been wondering if an external DAC would take things a step further.
YES!! I have diy 3 way powered monitors with dsp active crossovers and would love to keep it digital. I would even be happy if it was a pcie add in card with dolby atmos and I had to use a pc; as long as it works.
Hey sounds awesome. Just out of curiosity as I want to build something like that in the future, what AMP are you using to amplify each signal?As the tweeter needs much less power than the mid range or bass.
So, is there a surround processor that could be modified? If the 8 discrete channels are routed to mediocre but discrete DACs (as in separate ICs) then someone could turn modfying some suitable device into a profitable business. In the age of DVD players this already was done with regard to region unlocking. I too find it absolutely ridiculous that you have to buy another AV-receiver every few years, when all you needed to update was the algorithms to decode the newer audio formats.
I'd buy that. I really don't like having a massive receiver taking up half my living room... love that surround sound though - great vid Boss, keep 'em comin'
thank you, thank you, thank you, take the hdmi and send it to an exodus multi-channel DAC or whatever DACs you want. What happened to the $500 emotiva processor ($2k - $5k)?
I'D BUY THAT! , with that being said, other commenters have already addressed the elephant in the room, DRM. As far as they,or they're lawyers are concerned, you might as well be asking to "BUTTRAPE" them, ..... don't think it's gonna happen. I'm along for the full ride, I'd LOVE it, ... shall we say, "skeptical", it will happen. .................
For movies I use a Creative G6 receiving a 5.1 dolby digital signal which builds a pretty decent binaural surround simulation which then feeds an A90 and then a headphone of choice. Sounds better than most speaker setups I've tried.
Am I thinking about this wrong, but Plex or Kodi can decode DTS-HD, Dobby-Atoms, Etc., so what you need then is 4 spdif connections from the PC and don't do audio out over HDMI. Yes you may need something like the VB-Audio Potato running in the background to help split and manage the connections.
I'm in the middle of moving and i wanted to buy som klipsch speakers. Just think they're f***** beautiful. Now i'm seeing this video and you're so right. It's niche and i'm not even audiophile but i god damnit want this kind of solution because it's makes so much sence! I dont know what to do anymore, wanted to buy a denon reciever that fits my tv capabilities..... now i'm looking for strippet processors... oh god...
As a content producer, this is a huge problem in the industry. Up to 7.1, it's fine as you get get that from the computer going to your audio interface for streaming or playing Blu Rays. For Dolby Atmos, the only way to get that into your system digitally is with a $6k JBL Synthesis box. The majority of studios just use preamp outs on a receiver to then go into their rigs which means extra DA and AD stages.
With my RME interfaces I have no problem playing 7.1 content from my computer. I use 4 digital outs to go to my speakers. Blu rays and Netflix plus all of the work I do. I just can't use it for Disney Plus, Apple, or Amazon since those don't have Windows apps. I can get my smart TV into my system for those but that requires the extra stages of conversion unless I get a cheap Dolby decoder. For Atmos, right now I have no way of playing any content other than the work I do out of Nuendo.
Is there any reason you couldn't mod a home theater receiver to take the LVDS or CMOS level signals going into the internal DAC out to an external DAC via I2S?
Doesn't MiniDSP make one ? The DDRC-88D. If I understand correctly you can use each channel, output it digital to your favorite dac then amp and then speaker :)
@@KamielSadien I''m not sure how dolby's or dts encoding works on a low level, but can't you use any dolby certified encoding box and pass the encoded format as a digital input into the minidsp? Something like the FeinTech VAX01201 (I just typed dolby encoding box into Amazon)
Could you tap into the digital signal at the input pin of the processors internal DAC and wire that signal to a coaxial connector? Or did I just over simplify it?
Hmmmmm I sold Oppo's for years and I don't remember any of them having four coax output from the BDT-101CI to the BDP-103D early stuff. Was it a modded unit?. Maybe I'm just getting old and getting sometimers! Keep ranting Z maybe somebody will make one!
THIS!!! Holy shit I can't believe you brought this up. You of course are asking for the all-digital dream, whereas I have more realistic desires. For years I have wanted a CHEAP pre-amp that all it does is the surround processing. But because that doesn't exist I just purchased the cheapest receiver I could get with pre-outs on it. Those are really really hard to find now. Usually pre-outs are only on upper-mid level receivers. When every cheap $300 receiver can do surround processing, what the fuck sense does it make that the ONLY pre-amp separates that exist are like $2k and up? It's a bullshit 'audiophile tax'. I do wonder now if they are using much better DACs in those high price pre-amps, but I doubt it. Due to the fact I think DACs are a commodity, just put them in the pre-amp. You're not going to get digital outs on a unit that just decodes surround because of copyright fears. I mean, your idea would be great, but I just want cheap pre-amps. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to get them.
I'd buy that too. My mixer can't decode DTS/Dolby/whatthehellelse through USB and I'll have to resort to separately use toslink from computer to speaker set instead of being able to run *everything* through the same system. ;_; (Now encoding too!)
@@martinjean5198 If I don't have to leave the other stuff out like proper routing (I'm using Midas MR18), I'd be willing to pay definitely more than a thousand euros. Maybe even 2000 if again I won't be restricted in a way that there's one piece of gear for every tiny detail and I'll have to constantly work with software workarounds and switch between several audio devices. That's how desperate the markets are with no products, no supply. There exist some audio interfaces (Steinberg AXRT4 comes to my mind) which happily take both analog and digital inputs (that one has two toslinks you can define yourself to either take adat extensions or just input "regular" s/pdif signal), but then they aren't that good at routing or having the analog inputs and stuff... My current solution-in-progress is to: 1) somehow get Windows to recognise the mixer properly as multichannel (which is hard because Windows audio stack is shit and driver support is horrible; newest drivers show up as 4 usb stereo pairs, not even using all the 18 promised channels... but with some tweaks I can get channels 1-8 working as a multichannel group), and of course ditching digital encoding and just going pure wave. 2) assign the first channels 1-8 in the mixer just for this multichannel audio (meaning I have to move everything else up the channel rack, voice chats, music player software, DAWs, instruments, ... and I'm soon thus running out of channels) 3) route the channels to respective xlr outputs in such a way that front, surround, center and bass channels are in correct order for my speakers and 4a) get 3 pieces of xlr ->stereo 3.5mm cables to send all those channels out to the speakers with the 3 cables (LR, surround LR, C/bass), hoping I can manually get them a good surround mix or 4b) somehow, due to pure lack of options, obtain some movie industry-grade Dolby encoder which could take those 6 manual sources and encode all that back to digital optical which I can plug in the speaker set. It's a very annoying situation.
I'm fairly certain that the reason such a thing doesn't exist is because of the licensing agreements that OEMs have to sign off on with Dolby/DTS/etc. They're SUPER picky about how their formats are processed and then presented to the user and would probably frown upon given said user that much control over 'their' audio formats... At this point, the only processor I know of that even sends out a -digital- signal for any given channel is one of the new JBL Synthesis units that uses Dante. But even then I'm not sure what touches the signal path inside to be able to say that it's a 'pure' digital signal or if there's some amount of ADA/DAD going on before it gets sent out.
If I were a hardware manufacturer looking for a new product to make, I'd look at Zeos' idea and the licensing quagmire it would unavoidably create and be like "nope".
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just by adding digital outputs to their HT receivers, the consumer HT companies could eat into the integrated amp market. HT bypass is now the big thing.
I'D BUY THAT!
HiFiguides Thread ------ forum.hifiguides.com/t/request-for-surround-sound-decoders-dac-bypass-processors/20048
I have wanted this since 10 years at least...
The size of what you are asking to be created is small as a grain, its just a firmware flash chip. It will never happen Z. Sound processor is the most you can ask for but you can ask for processors without license and then having to purchase the license for each decoder that you just need.
In short, you want surround processors without any license and then you choose what you want, example: i want only Dolby digital, processor then prompts you to a online screen and you make the purchase of Dolby license.
I! I want this to Z!
(Almost)no one cares. that's why no one makes it and no one sells it.
I never understood why this didnt exist either.
Zeos' basement always makes me think of a flea market I could spend all day and my money in.
More like all of my organs.
BEFORE IT IS BROUGHT UP! I am aware the dac's would be De-Synced and timing would be off between them. BUT this would be compensated by systems like Audyssey or so small it is inconsequential. I use to separate dacs in my current HT with no negative impacts on balance or anything else I can perceive.
yo zeos, you need to set up a home gym and get ripped af. That'd be sick
not only that, but the DAC would have to be Dolby certified with piracy protection and this would drive up the cost for each DAC. Therefore the DA conversion must happen in the device thats decoding the surround signal so just get a decent surround processor with good build in DACs
what about those all in 1 pc you have in your house i think you have 3 or more of them zeos would those pc's work
@@juliangst I think this could be circumvented if you sell the 8 channel processing and the sacs in a combo unit. Ofc I habe 0 knowledge about the actual dolby certification process and prices, just an idea
@@BenjyP. this might works but makes no sense to do because you would end up with basically a processor in different boxes. What Z wants is to use his own dacs but I think thats not possible for those licensing reasons
I did sound for a 1 off movie premier and we had all the amps backstage. We dropped a dante rack by the media server guys up in the projection booth. Using virtual soundcard they were able to simply plug an ethernet into their machine, send the 7.1 over the dante network which was carried over fiber backstage to a small console which spat out AES to the amps. Literally digital all the way from the source to the amplifier. Shit sounded so clean.
I feel like my basement doesn't need Dante but it be so good.
@@ZReviews Dante certainly seems like overkill, but I know people with home studios that use dante because they can easily run audio from one room in the house to another simply using the installed house cat5e. I wish more home audio companies implemented networked audio.
@@ZReviews Do it i'm begging you🥺🥺🥺🥺😩😩😤😤😤😤
I think I would go with Dante, with Dante "Via" you should be able to set Foobar to stereo, and your movie program to 7.1 or even 14.2 and then run any these 16 Channels to any individual dac/amp.
But I am just a 19-year-old student who neither has a home cinema nor the money for a Dante-setup, but with an interest in Pro-audio. But yea, Dante is probably overkill.
But I would definitely like to see it.
@@aaronpieper3978 he could run Ethernet through his house and do all kinds of crazy stuff with a dante network sending audio and video around to different places
I knew exactly where this video was going and I agree completely.
It's going to a world where you just replace the brains and not the horsepower when you need an upgrade. It's going exactly where prosumer home networking is going (a la UBNT) where it's all separates and you can mix and match to your heart's content.
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
I've been yelling about this product not existing for the past year! We need dedicated surround decoders
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
@@martinjean5198 Sweet spot would be around $500
1+ fully agree
DRM says hi, and also no.
Exactly, the elephant is in the corner....Hollywood has all the lawyers needed to keep that key out of the lock.
I did think of that too, but maybe if you're licenced to decode DTS/Dolby you could get away with splitting out separate PCM channels over something like TOSLINK. I think it would be difficult and pointless to re-encode the audio back to the original mix for the sake of piracy without the video signal anyway?
I couldn't agree more about this. I've always wanted a modern surround processor (with Atmos and DTS-X decoding) which can output the raw *digital* audio channels.
But I'm almost certain there is a very good reason they don't do this on most commercial receivers...
You mentioned in the vid about it "not breaking DMCA / HDCP" to have digital outputs, and that the Oppo Blu-Ray player is one of the few you've ever seen with digital outputs for all channels.
It's precisely that - AFAIK, part of the normal licensing for the modern lossless Dolby and DTS formats is that the manufacturers aren't allowed to output the decoded digital channels directly. (unless they pay a hell of a lot more for the licensing, which is what I think Oppo might have done).
I don't know 100% if that's the case, but I have a strong feeling that's the reason.
Hollywood, and the HDMI "forum" absolutely want to minimize access to the bit-perfect digital signals that get decoded off a Blu Ray disk. And the same for most of the audio on streaming services.
Which is kinda silly, considering it's not too hard to do bit-perfect rips of Blu Ray disks (including 4K UHD disks), and even streaming services using a PC anyway.
But yeah, as far as most commercial AV receivers and processors go, I think that's the main reason they don't have digital outputs on them.
There's also no software decoder for the object-based formats like Atmos nor DTS-X yet, AFAIK.
EDIT: I think there *might* be decoding for some of the object-based formats on the latest version of PowerDVD, or something like that. But I found it nearly impossible to find that for Atmos, unless it was the stripped-down gaming version of Atmos.
Not unless you spend many thousands on the full Dolby or DTS software suites for doing the encoding/decoding, which often involves NDAs and other stuff. I don't even know for sure if their own software allows outputting the raw digital signals for each channel, vs just previewing it via HDMI/HDCP.
This is why I'm taking a different approach - I've designed my own PCB with a Cirrus DSP chip, FPGA (for signal routing etc.), and an Analog Devices DSP for bass management / room correction.
That takes the 4-bit I2S stream from the HDMI board (which can pass through 4K video, and only extract the audio stream), decodes it (including TrueHD/Atmos, or DTS-MA/DTS-X), and spits out raw I2S streams for the DAC(s).
The other-other way of doing this is to just modify an existing commercial AV receiver or processor with the digital outputs.
It's not too hard to do (I added SPDIF output to a satellite receiver around 2001). But obviously it would require some soldering, to tap off the I2S outputs from the DSP chip, then convert to SPDIF/AES.
I was just watching your vid on when you ditched the 30ft analog cables in your setup, and was blown away by the quality of routing digital around the room and to the DACs.
The one big problem here is - volume control. (which you also mention in this vid.)
If the volume control is done in the digital realm, then you are severely limiting the number of bits, and therefore the dynamic range at lower volumes.
If you had SPDIF outputs from a surround decoder, you'd have to figure out the best way to do volume control for that, too. It would be far better to just have full-volume outputs from the decoder's digital outputs, then handle the volume control between the DACs and amps.
(many DACs have internal volume control in the DAC chip itself, which is done on the analog outputs. Some of them have pretty good specs, from what I've read.)
Oh, interesting tidbit...
On many of the AV receivers that decode say 7 channels (so 7.1, or 5.1.2), the DSP chip has extra I2S pins that are left totally disconnected / unused.
And quite often, it's the SAME firmware on the DSP that is used in the higher-end models which can decode say 11 channels or more.
It's just that the the main MCU sends different SPI commands which disable those extra output channels on the DSP chip.
So in theory, there are many models of "7 channel" AV receivers (from the likes of Denon and Onkyo) that could be modified to decode 9, 11, or maybe even 13 channels.
That would also require some custom boards and some soldering, but it looks doable. At least on the receivers I've seen which use the very common Cirrus DSP chip.
Hai i am from India , i have the same openion about Atmos it's just bull shit with no audio in the height channel , i truly believe that auro 3 D has a better algorithm in it's auromatic upmixer which places sound right where are supposed to be , Atmos is a joke , Dolby Pro logic 2 had better algorithm and could place sounds in all the speakers , they claim that Atmos is a object based format while in reality it's just a channel based audio with fucked up algorithm
"Speakers can last 40 fuckin years..." Stares at recently purchased Ohm model H's refurbed from the factory
This video unfortunately told me everything I needed to know about my current situation : what I want doesn't exist in my price range. I use a computer for my 'home theater', and I was looking for a decent way to externally amp my front tower speakers without losing 4.1 capabilities. Thanks for the video Zeos.
I was just stomping around the house having the same rant. That rant led me here.
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
Yes! Couldn't agree more. That way I can use my high-end dac for the front two channels and something like an SMSL Sanskrit 10th for the others
This is a great point. I have never understood why surround sound decoders are so expensive and rare.
36:20 Yes, the analogy to on-board laptop sound is perfect.
I've been wanting this for YEARS !!!
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
Totally agree with you on this... Prevents you from having a listening and viewing room without duplicate systems.
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
We had Surround Decoders in the 90s lol. That was for analog Lt/Rt encoded LCRS, the same format as the original Dolby Stereo 35mm format. What you want is an HDMI processor/converter, decoding a lossless Dolby/DTS bitstream to LPCM and spitting out up to 7.1 over digital. The reason this isn't allowed is for HDMI/Copy Protection crap mainly. But there is actually 1 legit solution STILL made and it's from Meridian, a company who hasn't embraced the whole "object based" surround formats and specializes in giving you the best sounding pure multi-channel music and 7.1 HT experience. They don't use HDMI decoding in their processors as they prefer to keep it outside of the system, so they use a specialized HDMI Processor that is fed from a UHD BD Player (That does the TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding to LPCM) and the raw 8-Channel lossless PCM is then extracted and sent over "Smartlink", 4 Digital Coax outputs, in pairs for all 8 channels. The newer ones use something called MMHR, an ethernet connection to do the same 8 channel PCM transfer, but still include the Digital Coax 4x 7.1 output. Despite Meridian saying its "encrypted' it's actually not, what is encrypted is their 96K upsampling tech, but you could use a Meridian HDMI 621 or 722 processor, have it fed decoded LPCM 7.1 over HDMI from your BD player and you will get 4x 8 channel pure digital outputs and you'd be able to feed 4x benchmark dacs like they did in the exhibit you were talking about. I use an HDMI 621 with my Accuphase VX-700 to feed it lossless surround from a Sony UHD Player since it only does lossy internal decoding. The Accuphase had 4x Digital Coax 8ch inputs for an outboard DSP system of theirs but it works all the same as I use it lol. The Accuphase is really an incredible Pre-Pro, shame they stopped making them. And I have an another 621 in an actual Meridian 7.1 system where it's used "as intended". The other reason why these don't exist from mass market options besides the obvious HDMI/Copy Protection fiasco is that surround sound is moving away from being channel based and moving to something that is spatially encoded (Atmos/DTS:X) and then gets processed and sent to certain channels to simulate sound in space as opposed to them being premixed. Atmos is massively overrated though, really good 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc is always gonna blow away crappy fake Atmos you see with all these soundbars now a days anyway. That Tascam was a nice AVR, I had the same one too about 8-9 years ago. It's the pro audio version of the Integras, and from the same TEAC/Onkyo/Integra family of brands. Good stuff.
A movie with a good soundtrack is arrival. One of my favorites.
Oblivion and Tron too, also, Whiplash.
You can use Virtual Audio Cable and Audio Repeater to do this. Use the virtual cable to have (multiple) surround sound capable playback device(s) on Windows and then use the audio repeater to split the surround sound into multiple dacs. Use one virtual cable as the main source, route it to another virtual cable(s), and then route two channels of that into the desired sound device (dac). So for example, create 3 different virtual cable. VC1, VC2, VC3 (don't forget to set all of them as a surround device). Route all the VC1 surround channels to VC2 and VC3 (using two instances of audio repeater). From there, you can route say, Front Left and Front Right channels from VC2 to a dac, and then route Surround Left and Surround Right channel from VC3 to a different dac. Since VC2 and VC3 are duplicates of VC1 (the main source), its basically the same as splitting VC1 into multiple dacs (I tried directly splitting VC1 to multiple dacs but it doesn't work. Hence you need a VC2 and VC3, a virtual cable for each dac). And there you go, surround sound split into multiple dacs. I did this because I only have one decent stereo amp so I wanted to split (extract) the Front and Center channels to the stereo amp and let a cheap home theater receiver handle the rest of the channels.
ps.
i use virtual audio cable and audio repeater from muzychenko. you cant use the free version if you want to use multiple virtual audio cable tho
i dont think there is quality degradation as long as you keep the audio format (sample rate, bit depth etc) consistent across all virtual cable and devices but i never tested/checked
play around with the buffer and pre-fill settings on the audio repeater if the sound is 'glitchy'
edit: nevermind, zeos touched on this a bit further into the video.
There's two ways I know of to get surround digital outputs *from a computer.* these methods are of course limited to what a PC can decode, so no Atmos or anything like that.
The "proper way:" professional AES/EBU sound cards. 8 or even 16 stereo channels. of course you wouldn't get fancy room correction/delay compensation/Audyssey/whatever, but you can do that from a nanodigi anyways, right?
The "extreme jank please never ever do this" way: pulseaudio in Linux allows you to bond together as many sound devices as you'd like. 16 USB to SPDIF converters hanging off your PC? sure. *However,* I spent months trying to get two cheapo usb sound cards to play nice together and it will work but occasionally one would become delayed for no apparent reason, and glitches are aplenty.
after some digging there's the RME Digiface USB, literally a USB sound card with 4*stereo SPDIF outs, but it's $500.
@UCBGWmgxU-zSWNUYDgZ-Q4fg i doubt the STX can decode atmos, it might be decoding just the underlying TrueHD or Digital Plus streams, and not actually the full atmos experience. More importantly, can you even adjust the outputs to the height channel? because if not it'd be rather useless...
Or you could hire a choir and tell them to stand around you and sing
@@nitromenoob I would love to hear a choir try to sing explosions or sci fi sound effects
This is similar to what Steinway Lyngdorf, Trinnov, and Datasat do. Trinnov and Datasat have the digital connection from the decoder/processor to the amp. Their amps and a couple others. SL does it differently and I think they have digital amps. It's unfortunately a very expensive system but if you compare it to other high end home theater systems it's comparable. Their room perfect eq doesn't require acoustic treatments.
You can do this. Or pretty close at least. You can buy the license to DTSx and/or Atmos
In windows and using a digital audio cable(s) (hificable uses asio) you should be able to route each piece of the audio accordingly L, R, etc. To each independent dac/amp.
And to add, you can also use Equalizer APO and fuck with eqs and everything under the sun.
I wonder if there is a way to do this with linux+raspberry pi and make a dedicated headless unit. I'm sure it's a huge if since dolby would say F-off to open source anything. Maybe there is a way to run windows binarys through wine emulation. Hmmm.. Someone out there has to be able to know if this is feasible.
If you can decode the signal in windows, you can feed that into the minidsp 88D as digital input and do all the splitting, timing correction and what not in there. At least I think so :)
@@fieldcar ffmpeg can decode dolby anything short of atmos (atmos enabled content decodes as TrueHD surround) and DTS anything short of DTS:X. So if you're not planning on adding a height channel it should already be possible now.
@@xureality This gives me ideas.
@@xureality Didn't know of ffmpeg. Just did a little looksee, and I would agree. Possibly, use ffmpeg to decode,set up a server to use ffplay to stream the individual channels,or pairs/whatever over network to Pi's-USB-DAC-Amp-Spkr. ..... Big question, ... finding someone/anyone who has thought about this and, possibly started the endeavour, or someone who knows how to use the building blocks to put this together. Wish I had the coding chops, but alas, I find myself wanting......... Somebody here, or, Z's extended crew, has got to know how to code this...
I've been waiting for this kind of a dive into your home theater setup. I really enjoyed it :)
Actually, what we need is surround processors (with dac) AND vst plugins. Any old 150$ laptop will run a plethora of FREE vst plugins that will put to shame ANY surround decoder at ANY price point. In other words, we need pc soundcards with arc/earc inputs that's not overpriced to the moon. That'd put pretty much all these overpriced home theater companies out of busyness overnight.
Post a vid/link on this...exactly what im trying to accomplish...maybe even better through XBOX1X 💥🏁🚀
MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE
The sound of a Detroit diesel haunts me in my dreams.
Noice
@@ZReviews wsp z....
For reference, the RMC-1, RMC-1L, and XMC-2 all use the AKM4490 DAC. Its a little older at this point but it still sounds pretty amazing.
He should just buy an XMC.
YES PLEASE!! Emotiva please listen to mad lad!
FINALLY. I've been searching for this discussion on the internet for an entire month.
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
I see more people buying the purely digital version, me included, because this is fir asholes that already have a high end dac. This would be the best device to get stereo people into multichannel.
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
Hi Zeos, The best surround sound Decoder I have is a modified Silicon Chip Surround Decoder PT.2 from the 1990’s. This is a Dolby Pro-Logic decoder that was purchased in kit form and which was modified and built with better Op Amps, power supply and attenuators by my good friend and audio engineer Joe Rasmussen of Custom Analogue in Sydney Australia.
It just uses Dolby and there is no atmos or thx but it sounds amazing hooked up to my custom made mono blocks in 5.1 surround sound setup. I also have a Onkyo TX-NR626 Receiver which is relatively good for what it is at its price point but, doesn’t come close to my custom setup.
YES YES YES! Been wanting this for so long!
I saw the title and immediately gave the video a thumbs up. This shit is insane.
Amen to this, we need more processors on the market
😎
A practical way to design a processor/AVR with external DAC support would be to supply the Digital outputs for the channels in pairs and an analog input for each pair of channels. The DAC would convert the digital signal and send it back at line level and the processor/AVR can so the rest with the analog signal. That will allow users to control volume, delay, EQ, etc from the processor/AVR, this would also allow people to use different quality dacs for different channel. It would be simular to how the Pioneer RMX-500 is patched into a DJM-900NXS mixer board using the SEND/RECEIEVE. Doesn't seem expensive from a design/manufacturing standpoint, but yea they are not going to spend a penny on it if it doesn't sell more units.
Here's the problem with what you're asking, and my apologies if you addressed it later in the video, but it's too long to watch in its entirety. PCM output doesn't have a volume meta data*, it's a pure digital representation of an analog wave. This mean you would have to adjust the volume in each DAC/AMP. You could use a multi channel DAC/AMP, in which case, you now made a processor.
* You could control the volume of PCM, by reducing the wave's amplitude, but you'll be losing resolution the lower you go.
The Expanse!!! Hell yes!!! This seasons production is notably better. Big money on those effects!
My 7.2.4 set up I am moving to a few 4channel QSC CX Amps and I looking at processors now. Interesting take. My biggest grip with processors is changing formats. I have outdated my reviewers way to fast.
And that theater should be a full JBL 5 series with biamp'd fronts with active Xovers!!!
FYI JBL 530s on sale again today.. under 300 /pair. Bought 4 for my atmos/surrounds, 150 bucks each for decent surrounds...
The JBL 530s are sold out as of 10:00am EST - i just checked :(
@@morris7025 opps.. I ordered 4. That's crazy. I have a pair of the 580s I got a week ago and so far loving them. I have the bug to upgrade to the 590s for my fronts still. The base out of this dual 6.5" set up is insane, but it sucks my current done x4000 dry. You can tell they are asking for more power.... Oh the decisions...
but unless I see that sale come back..I did want the 570s more than the 530s, but at 150 each they devistate my SVS prime elevations and I am going to have the JBLs do the theater room kit. And move my SVS kit upstairs to the living room.
The price to performance on these JBLs on sale is just stupid.
Not in EU :/
THE UAD APOLLO X6 is the thing you are looking for. Highest DA conversion and Surround compatible.
He's not looking for the converters, he wants the surround decoding.
He'd also want the Apollo x8 cause he's doing 7.1.. though Id go Focusrite Red instead. No tech/money wasted on plug in dsp. and its dante enabled for ethernet connectivity.. When I set up my atmos mix suite that's the way I'm going.
@@drdelewded that's an interesting answer. didn't know focusrite offers a surround option.
@@AlexisGitarre yes. They just introduced a multi source (up to 7.1.2) monitor controller that works through Dante. With the Red 16Line you can monitor an Dolby atmos analog mix.
Look up the rednet R1
Most of the higher end processors, like the Emotiva RMC-1 and RMC-1L, actually have audiophile DACs in them and the RMC-1 in particular has an individual DAC for every one of its 16 channels. The cheaper XMC-2 has individual DACs for the front 3 channels and then one DAC for every other two channels after that. I have the XMC-2 and it sounds pretty amazing for a surround sound processor. You should try to get Emotiva to send your both of those for testing.
The problem is that all most people want is 7.2 channels and you can't get a high end surround processor that's only 7.2 channels. I don't want to pay for those extra 3-4 dacs in a 16 channel processor if I'm not going to use them. If the units were separate and you could choose your own components and how many channels you want, then you could get much higher quality sound at a lower price.
Emotiva RMC-1 are still trash AVR meaning closed software with planned obsolescence.
With a PC you can do ANYTHING. Just the ability to use VST plugins would make any Trinnov or Stormaudio look like a child toy.
Also... Emotiva is anything BUT quality. Their gear have been measured several times and the implementation is anythng but stellar.
I'd be into this as well. Make the thing firmware upgradable to add new licenses for codecs. Bonus points for modular so the hdmi subsystem can be upgraded for when 2.2 or later comes out. Will pay the moneys for that
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
okay, just saying, but what you're looking for is a digital transcoder. There appears to be a few on the market, I can't find any from a major manufacturer. The ones I've seen so far (I've only been looking since I watched this video), are of dubious quality, but what does quality matter when everything is staying digital? regardless, if you google "surround transcoder", you'll get some amazon/ebay links to devices that, on the surface, appear to be digital audio extractors for HDMI or similar, however, several have the option to output (whether digital or analog) either 2ch, 5.1ch or passthru/bypass. The bypass gives the full compressed Dolby/DTS/whatever signal to a downstream audio device, but what's interesting is that some are showing that if you select 5.1/7.1 instead of bypass/passthru, they will actually _do the dolby decompression_ and send out LPCM digital 5.1/7.1 to the downstream (optical/coax) device. hook that up to a miniDSP nanoDIGI, split off the LPCM surround channels into the outputs for Front L/R, surround L/R, surround back L/R, and Center/SUB and voila. now you have what you need to route the audio to the various zones. IF THIS WORKS (had to be caps, this is a big if), then it solves the problem. Not gracefully mind you, but well enough to achieve the goal. I'll refrain from linking anything because I don't want to make the YT gods angry, and also, I don't know if any of this works, these are cheap products, and I have no idea if they work, or how well. None of them seem to have brands, and if they do have a brand, it's a brand I've never heard of before. - but since they're cheap and you need this, maybe pick one up and see if it does the job? maybe through amazon so you can return it if it's an utter failure? I love audiophile stuff, but I'm probably more surround leaning, I've never had reason to question my current home theatre setup, but this video has me thinking. Thanks Zeos.
Meridian have been doing this since the 90s.
A 568 processor (pre 2000) sends digital or analog data to either an analogue amp or digital speakers with a DAC and amp built in.
However, why? The DAC’s in the processor are transparent and using separate amps in a small room (less than 200m) is perfect 👌🏽 There are no improvements to be had by doing what you suggest. DAC are transparent these days, you won’t show any measurements that prove you hear any improvement. You can’t get better than transparent. That’s why it didn’t catch on 20 years ago.
Z's rants are always my favorite content that he provides.
all I need is a 4k HDMI switcher with DTS-MA and DD decoder, with volume control and a good DAC (a plus would be XLR outs and a 4k upscaler )
Zeros: ... And that's the end of this video
*GOES ON FOR ANOTHER 12 MINUTES*
Yes please, this. Someone build this please. I use miniDSP for all channels so going to analogue before translating back to digital feels like such a painfull step and especially pointless
...
The HDCP agreement means a device isn't allowed to output high res digital out of the HDMI input. So you'd be limited to 48kHz 16bit stereo. And if you want more the device can't be HDCP compliant which basically means goodbye streaming services and Bluray, so nobody makes these. I guess you'd have to pirate remuxed and copyright protection stripped content even if you're already paying for it.
Arvus H2-UDMA exists(?) but is sadly a couple thousand $. HDMI in to basically anything (including AES/EBU) at once. MADI Optical and Coax is an extra cost. Does everything DTS and Dolby including Atmos. (Arvus HDMI-2A is cheaper but no atmos, also old)
Wow thats close to what I want. Shame it went out of business.
@@ZReviews I'm a complete noob....but....could it be worth checking out newer AVR offerings. I have to believe they've come a long way from 7 years ago when it comes to the internal dacs these AVR's have. Probbaly not the best of the best (what is what you're looking for) but got to be better than Teac 7 year old AVR DAC no?
16bit 48KHZ is a hole lot bettre than 12$ dacs in a processor
@@icyphilippe It's 16bit 48kHz stereo not surround for LPCM out. Some devices bypass this restriction by presenting the digital out as ARC in which case the LPCM restriction still applies, but bitstreaming lossy surround formats becomes an option. The problem is that you could make such a product (like the one I mentioned) but it's already niche and it just won't sell without HDCP support. You could make it switch depending on if the input is HDCP encrypted or not and receivers like that exist (like ISP mk2) but they come at an absurd price range. You could get a splitter that "accidentally" strips HDCP which would allow you to make it work but it's a bit of a gray area and nobody wants to make a product that relies on that to be used.
Is it possible to make this product with only ARC/eARC input ? Will the HDCP agreement apply on ARC/eARC ?
Here’s what you need: HDMI splitter that can strip HDCP, a pci-e capture card Avermedia Live Gamer 4K (can capture video stream with 7.1 pcm), OBS for capturing that 7.1 and convert to direct sound 7.1, Voicemeter for splitting that 7.1 signal to different USB/optical/coaxial output.
The HDCP strip would help so things further along don't have to be compatible but you're getting a 7.1 dts or dolby most of the time so as the capture card can only do 7.1 lpcm that won't work. Voicemeeter is also kinda potato as far as splitting channels and its impact on audio quality considering it resamples things.
@@jusmirtic Not sure what you mean, but it works for my Apple TV. I’m not saying that you should use that HDMI for audio output(ARC doesn’t work with this), but use it for “video” output. My Apple TV for example pass unencrypted 7.1 PCM to my TV together with video. I split that signal to my capture card, then to my GSX-1000 for HRTF 7.1. As for Voicemeter’s quality, I believe that you can change the sample rate
This rant is how new products/companies get created
Not really, cause it can't be made.
@@sebdhaese why can't it be made?
@@kennethschoen7796 Because there are only two companies that make dolby surround chips, panasonic and sony. And both of them have only one current day DAC chip that both decodes the HDCP protocol and converts to analogue in the same chip, so no way to get the digital signal out before the dac. Dolby would also never allow it.
my setup is an Evolve II-4K HDMI v2.0 / Multi-Channel DAC - 7.1 RCA output and a HDMI 4k video out. It can decode DTS MA and Dolby Digital Tru HD. This is fed into a Minidsp DDRC-88 for Dirac Room Correction and volume control etc. It costs very little compared to other surround processors/ decoder in the market.
What Zeos is looking for is exactly that BUT with 4 TOSLINK outputs. So he can actually take advange of the nanodigi.
Cool dac but its still four stereo dacs shoved in a $300 box. Have you tried going to the DDRC-88 with a single hq signal? Compare the outputs for 2 channel listening?
@@ZReviews only thing I can think off that has a higher quality 2ch signal might be the Minidsp shd I own for my 2ch with 2 subs system down stairs. I'll hook up the minidsp shd to the ddrc and disable Dirac on the shd to see if it makes any difference. I also have a Fostex HPA8 DAC headphone amp to try but it's RCA outputs are noisy (possibly broken)
Monoprice hdmi audio extractor(H.A.E.). On amazon. $50. It gives a two channel, and optical output.
I would place the H.A.E. inline between the pc and the projector.
(Disclaimer I'm not certain surround is output via optical but for $50 it's worth a shot)
I would see if you can use the nano digi to take in the optical from the output of the H.A.E. and output 4 stereo coaxial to 4 separate stereo dacs of your choosing for a 7.1 channel setup.
Idea 2, if 7.1 isn't output from H.A.E. via optical, I have a late 00's model Yamaha htr-5990 with a toslink out. So I know that at one point there were manufacturers that were doing it, before dmca was finalized possibly..?
Third idea, the RME Digiface USB Portable Digital Audio Interface is a USB 2.0 24/192 4 in 4 out day, and spdif digital interface. The included software looks like a potential solution as well. Albeit a bit more of an investment at $500.. buuuuut, it does look intriguing. Sooooooooo in this case is run pc usb audio out to the Digiface via the included software, then from there optical spdif to 4 separate dacs
ruclips.net/video/pFkIVRIkLJk/видео.html
TLDR Oppo-UDP-205 has good enough DACs! I would buy your solution if it was produced. However, for now, I do something similar using an old receiver and am very happy with the result. I am still running my 20 year old original Denon 5800 receiver just as an amp and using the Oppo UDP-205 as the DAC and processor. The Oppo has reasonably good DACs. It has a separate 2-channel DAC section for stereo that sounds phenomenal which I have a streamer hooked up to and fed into the CD input. As an added bonus, it is possible to run the 5800 as a 5.1 system and use the 6th and 7th full power channels to bi-amp large towers on the FL & FR channels. You have level control on each section of the bi-amp so you could lower the level on the horns or tune your speakers as desired on the fly. I use this to add or remove a little brightness on the high end depending on the album. I have seen the 5800 go as cheep as a few hundred dollars used.
* Oppo UDP-205
was literally searching for a budget surround sound DAC for my monitors last night...perfect timing
I definitely would buy that!!!! I have 2 miniDSP's, 2 nanoDSP's and 2 mini U-DIO8's. I have two multi-channel HT / Stereo setups. I hope Emotiva or Schiit Audio would make a DSP unit like you have described....Can't wait!!!
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
I was thinking about the DAC in my PC. Someone told me I needed to buy some external DAC for quality reasons. I tried to comparison my ASUS motherboard DAC with the DAC in the Aiyima T9 pro. I couldn't hear any differences.
I also wondered why couldn't the software synch up multiple external sound production devices on USB Optical, etc so I could use all external for surround instead of my 3.5mm 7.1 pc outputs.
I bet software would have a hard time keeping everything in sync.
This could also apply to a model where one company makes a set of multiple digital outputs. How do you account for any decoding latency of conversion on the many different devices you connect them to. The source has no control for synching it up. I bet it would be more cost effective to build the single source with better quality.
I have thought the same exact thing many times over the years, but I am not willing to pay $1500
I appreciate the rant video. It's like the Z Does videos without pretending it's something else xD
*o boy am I hyped for the next instalment of z rants*
Subject?
@@ZReviews oooooo, I got one. WHY THE FUCK ARE PROPER CABLES SO FUCKING EXPENSIVE??? LIKE 50$ FOR A CABLE? WTF? AND JUST CABLES IN GENERAL, WHY DO YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT CONNECTION THAT COSTS 200$, YOU HAVE A CABLE THAT LOOKS NORMAL, BUT HAS SOME DUMB FUCKERY THAT DOSENT WORK ON ANYTHING AHHHH
The Tascam PA-R200 has the TI Burr-Brown 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs (PCM1690).
Where would the volume control be? Digital volume control would be less desirable. You’d need a multi channel preamp after the d/a conversation I think.
A $100Schitt Modi DAC blew away my $2200 Marantz SR7013. No contest. Not even close. The DACs in receivers suck, or maybe it’s just the implementation wired into all the other circuitry as opposed to having a dedicated box handling it independent of the circuitry drawing the signal straight to the amp. I was so shocked but now I know. I want this too. I have since air figured this out last year. Now, I listen to more 2ch music in my home theatre because it sounds so much better.
Z your house is awesome. I need one Where are you located now. Did you have your house custom built?
Can’t wait to see the video of your HT room build.
You already have what you want. Both those boxes on your table have it. You just need to strip away the extra bits. Maybe buy a cheaper 2nd hand surround processor to experiment on?
Just looking at that Emotive it's clear which bits are the decoder and which are the DAC.
Thanks Z for the Maximum Overdrive flashbacks
i guess if you use all amps that have a 3.5mm plug for IR remote in/out that should fix the volume issue
To be honest all I really want is a decoder/processor that costs like $200, like the DACs in a $200 receiver are... fine. I don't see why they couldn't make up for the nicheness of the product by not having to provide amps. I really just want it for my backyard cinema where I'm using a big PA system with electrovoice eliminators to provide sound, not critical listening but you want it to sound good and loud AF. I might just bite the bullet and get the emotiva at some point but it's a hard sell for something that only gets used a half dozen times a year.
Seen the Monoprice HTP-1 16? Not exactly what your looking for. But it had me at XLR out's
i completely agree. i have been wanting this forever.
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
Hmmm, Perhaps a digital decoder in the form of a PC sound card would be good....?
Makes sense to me!
Interesting what you said about trying out the two channel JDS DAC with your Tascam AVR. I don’t do multichannel in my small space but I’m using an AVR to power my two channel system. My cheap Sony DVD player is also my CD transport and I found that my mid-level Denon receiver’s internal DAC sounds noticeably better than the Sony’s. Lately I’ve been wondering if an external DAC would take things a step further.
This is why I watch you!
100% agree on the expanse being the best show.
YES!! I have diy 3 way powered monitors with dsp active crossovers and would love to keep it digital. I would even be happy if it was a pcie add in card with dolby atmos and I had to use a pc; as long as it works.
Hey sounds awesome. Just out of curiosity as I want to build something like that in the future, what AMP are you using to amplify each signal?As the tweeter needs much less power than the mid range or bass.
@@BenjyP. I'm using hypex fusion fa503 plate amps. The speakers I built are called the Seas kingr04y mk iii .
Monolith HTP-1-16 Channel Home theatre processor. Blows that shit out of the water.
Thing is a beast. And Auro-3D is bae.
So, is there a surround processor that could be modified? If the 8 discrete channels are routed to mediocre but discrete DACs (as in separate ICs) then someone could turn modfying some suitable device into a profitable business. In the age of DVD players this already was done with regard to region unlocking. I too find it absolutely ridiculous that you have to buy another AV-receiver every few years, when all you needed to update was the algorithms to decode the newer audio formats.
I'd buy that. I really don't like having a massive receiver taking up half my living room... love that surround sound though - great vid Boss, keep 'em comin'
thank you, thank you, thank you, take the hdmi and send it to an exodus multi-channel DAC or whatever DACs you want. What happened to the $500 emotiva processor ($2k - $5k)?
I'D BUY THAT! , with that being said, other commenters have already addressed the elephant in the room, DRM. As far as they,or they're lawyers are concerned, you might as well be asking to "BUTTRAPE" them, ..... don't think it's gonna happen. I'm along for the full ride, I'd LOVE it, ... shall we say, "skeptical", it will happen. .................
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
For movies I use a Creative G6 receiving a 5.1 dolby digital signal which builds a pretty decent binaural surround simulation which then feeds an A90 and then a headphone of choice. Sounds better than most speaker setups I've tried.
The product you request would be better for using new, high-end powered speakers as an optional solution.
Omg yes I have been searching for something like this for years!
Am I thinking about this wrong, but Plex or Kodi can decode DTS-HD, Dobby-Atoms, Etc., so what you need then is 4 spdif connections from the PC and don't do audio out over HDMI. Yes you may need something like the VB-Audio Potato running in the background to help split and manage the connections.
I'm in the middle of moving and i wanted to buy som klipsch speakers. Just think they're f***** beautiful. Now i'm seeing this video and you're so right. It's niche and i'm not even audiophile but i god damnit want this kind of solution because it's makes so much sence! I dont know what to do anymore, wanted to buy a denon reciever that fits my tv capabilities..... now i'm looking for strippet processors... oh god...
And this looks pretty cool too
As a content producer, this is a huge problem in the industry. Up to 7.1, it's fine as you get get that from the computer going to your audio interface for streaming or playing Blu Rays. For Dolby Atmos, the only way to get that into your system digitally is with a $6k JBL Synthesis box. The majority of studios just use preamp outs on a receiver to then go into their rigs which means extra DA and AD stages.
With my RME interfaces I have no problem playing 7.1 content from my computer. I use 4 digital outs to go to my speakers. Blu rays and Netflix plus all of the work I do. I just can't use it for Disney Plus, Apple, or Amazon since those don't have Windows apps. I can get my smart TV into my system for those but that requires the extra stages of conversion unless I get a cheap Dolby decoder. For Atmos, right now I have no way of playing any content other than the work I do out of Nuendo.
Is there any reason you couldn't mod a home theater receiver to take the LVDS or CMOS level signals going into the internal DAC out to an external DAC via I2S?
The dacs actually do the surround sound processing. But you can use the dac as a (passthrough) ic controller.
Doesn't MiniDSP make one ? The DDRC-88D. If I understand correctly you can use each channel, output it digital to your favorite dac then amp and then speaker :)
Just looked at this Minidsp now and you're 100% right. It has 8 channels of SPDIF or AES and is USB fed.
The only real question would be Dolby or DTS.
@@KamielSadien I''m not sure how dolby's or dts encoding works on a low level, but can't you use any dolby certified encoding box and pass the encoded format as a digital input into the minidsp? Something like the FeinTech VAX01201 (I just typed dolby encoding box into Amazon)
nice pair of Design Acoustic PS-10s on the bottom shelf :-)
Could you tap into the digital signal at the input pin of the processors internal DAC and wire that signal to a coaxial connector? Or did I just over simplify it?
Hmmmmm I sold Oppo's for years and I don't remember any of them having four coax output from the BDT-101CI to the BDP-103D early stuff. Was it a modded unit?. Maybe I'm just getting old and getting sometimers! Keep ranting Z maybe somebody will make one!
I wish I remembered the model number
@@ZReviews me too :)
A single dac that has a simple dsp per channel would be ideal. Ultimate control
THIS!!! Holy shit I can't believe you brought this up. You of course are asking for the all-digital dream, whereas I have more realistic desires. For years I have wanted a CHEAP pre-amp that all it does is the surround processing. But because that doesn't exist I just purchased the cheapest receiver I could get with pre-outs on it. Those are really really hard to find now. Usually pre-outs are only on upper-mid level receivers. When every cheap $300 receiver can do surround processing, what the fuck sense does it make that the ONLY pre-amp separates that exist are like $2k and up? It's a bullshit 'audiophile tax'. I do wonder now if they are using much better DACs in those high price pre-amps, but I doubt it.
Due to the fact I think DACs are a commodity, just put them in the pre-amp. You're not going to get digital outs on a unit that just decodes surround because of copyright fears. I mean, your idea would be great, but I just want cheap pre-amps. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to get them.
You hit the proverbial hammer on the anvil... Zeos!
I'd buy that too. My mixer can't decode DTS/Dolby/whatthehellelse through USB and I'll have to resort to separately use toslink from computer to speaker set instead of being able to run *everything* through the same system. ;_;
(Now encoding too!)
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
@@martinjean5198 If I don't have to leave the other stuff out like proper routing (I'm using Midas MR18), I'd be willing to pay definitely more than a thousand euros. Maybe even 2000 if again I won't be restricted in a way that there's one piece of gear for every tiny detail and I'll have to constantly work with software workarounds and switch between several audio devices.
That's how desperate the markets are with no products, no supply. There exist some audio interfaces (Steinberg AXRT4 comes to my mind) which happily take both analog and digital inputs (that one has two toslinks you can define yourself to either take adat extensions or just input "regular" s/pdif signal), but then they aren't that good at routing or having the analog inputs and stuff...
My current solution-in-progress is to:
1) somehow get Windows to recognise the mixer properly as multichannel (which is hard because Windows audio stack is shit and driver support is horrible; newest drivers show up as 4 usb stereo pairs, not even using all the 18 promised channels... but with some tweaks I can get channels 1-8 working as a multichannel group), and of course ditching digital encoding and just going pure wave.
2) assign the first channels 1-8 in the mixer just for this multichannel audio (meaning I have to move everything else up the channel rack, voice chats, music player software, DAWs, instruments, ... and I'm soon thus running out of channels)
3) route the channels to respective xlr outputs in such a way that front, surround, center and bass channels are in correct order for my speakers and
4a) get 3 pieces of xlr ->stereo 3.5mm cables to send all those channels out to the speakers with the 3 cables (LR, surround LR, C/bass), hoping I can manually get them a good surround mix or
4b) somehow, due to pure lack of options, obtain some movie industry-grade Dolby encoder which could take those 6 manual sources and encode all that back to digital optical which I can plug in the speaker set.
It's a very annoying situation.
I'm fairly certain that the reason such a thing doesn't exist is because of the licensing agreements that OEMs have to sign off on with Dolby/DTS/etc. They're SUPER picky about how their formats are processed and then presented to the user and would probably frown upon given said user that much control over 'their' audio formats...
At this point, the only processor I know of that even sends out a -digital- signal for any given channel is one of the new JBL Synthesis units that uses Dante. But even then I'm not sure what touches the signal path inside to be able to say that it's a 'pure' digital signal or if there's some amount of ADA/DAD going on before it gets sent out.
This video is gold. Thank you!
How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?
If I were a hardware manufacturer looking for a new product to make, I'd look at Zeos' idea and the licensing quagmire it would unavoidably create and be like "nope".
Datasat RS20I
. but It has those weird DB25M connectors which I've never heard of and never seen a DAC have that. Maybe DB25M to USB adapters?
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just by adding digital outputs to their HT receivers, the consumer HT companies could eat into the integrated amp market. HT bypass is now the big thing.