I'll admit I got insanity lucky and pulled E2S1 FF in less then 300 pulls as only a MP player. but if you're a true F2P and go in with over 500+ 2 E6 a character holy based who needs 6+ Limited characters when you got a meta lvl character E6...
If you are invalidated by traffic light thats a mere skill issue lmao. You will only have a problem with it with auto unlike firefly. What an excuse just to label acheron on fireflies inability
Agreed. My e2s1 acheron covers one fight with e2s1 kafka/e2s1black swan/aventurine trends s5. While my e2s1 Firefly demolished the other with e6 Hmc/ruan mei/e6 gallahger. Not pulling anyone else until Jiaoqiu and next superbreak support comes out.
Witch is one boss Sam the rest with that Ability get nuked 2 fast, and the same could be said with Acheron and ST bosses she has trouble with them so No unit is flawless..... ( ATM it wouldn't surprise me if they did release a character like that lol )
@@The_CodFish69I think what will happen is they will release a unit that buffs energy gain a lot (possibly something like tingyun ult but on skill but prob not that insane) to catch other units up bc FF and Acheron are so much better right now
@@risen9127 with the break team, they get broken too fast before their weakness lock comes into play... currently, so maybe in the future they'll add a true counter to her
Why do you thing people argue on who is stronger between Goku and Superman? People always want to know who is number 1, the rest are invalidated or won't be allowed to coexist at the top.
I'll say wait until they release a support that have toughness bar protection penetration. With powercreep being the way it is I'll say it will come eventually.
@@johntyh Yep. Currently both Acheron and FF don't have their dedicated limited sustain. But Acheron does have more flexibility because she plays like a hypercarry who needs nihility instead of harmony supports. So as they release more break support FF will get more flexible as well. Once we get a new path for MC they need to either make a new limited support to replace HMC or make the new path work with Super Break to keep the two as each other's BiS. Either way I'm not really worried about these 2 NOT getting support in the future. Raiden Mei has been their favourite child for a very long time and Firefly is looking to be a new favourite in the making with how much they're pushing for her. If this patch met or exceed Acheron's revenue you better believe that they're gonna keep her alive by giving her newer support instead of making a new character who's just Firefly 2.0. Will they powercreep her eventually? Yeah. Same way they're gonna powercreep Acheron eventually. They'll make support unit to keep dps good for some time and then they'll release a new character that does more damage. Or they just release a new version of the character. Alter version is a popular and easy way to release new characters that are guarenteed to generate revenue. Point is they're both good now, will get better with newer supports and then eventually fall off as they get powercrept. Luckily they're popular characters so they're going to get more than other characters.
@@iqhmalReduxAven with LC is Acheron’s limited sustain. At the rate he can proc those debuffs there won’t be a better one for her. Maybe a cheaper version eventually, but never better.
Why use Kafka of all the Nihility units, she offers absolutely fuck all for Acheron even a Pela would be better. Like this is the worst possible scenario for Acheron.
Pela is BIS for Acheron currently. That and if Sparkle was put in place of Ruan Mei, he would have easily had a decent amount of AV to spare on his Acheron when Zero cycling, & Unironically in her Worst case scneario, E6S5 Acheron in her Worst case scneario is basically = to E6S5 Firefly in her best case scneario.
@@QMS9224 that’s such a big Nerf tho Kafka offers literally nothing besides triggering the passive tbh ignoring the passive for a 4 star Harmony would probably be more damage lol
@@IdeasAreBulletproof Even if this is true, the marginal extra damage Acheron provides get's completely swamped by the FF team since Ghallager is basically a DPS. The Acheron Hyper carry team is significantly less damage than the DOT Acheron team, but even then that team can't keep up with break teams overall damage unless they run no sustain, and even then they fall short. Whereas super break team comp has sustain and more overall damage, + the sustain from delaying actions.
Pela is better then Kafka though for Acheron, Pokke would have gotten quite a bit more Damage from Acheron if he used Pela over Kafka, I can also say that Sparkle is easily better then Ruan Mei for a E2+ Acheron.
Is MrPokke bad at TC or was on propose to bring RM and Kafka to Acheron team ? that team damage is so much lower than Pela + sparkle (even E2 acherons do 1+m damage easily with those 2) , dotcheron doesnt outperform pela + sparkle until you have eidolons on BS or kafka , and dotcheron needs BS way more than kafka, this showing was so freaking troll lol
RUclips chat, let's be honest, even if one is better than the other at E6, 99% of u guys won't have those E6s5. Not saying it invalidates any speculations u can have but as someone who has E6s5 Jingliu and Firefly, at the very least I know the experience is pretty much overkill anyways. Even E0 FF is already too much from my experience
V true. But tell me how FF performed better and they still picked Acheron. I don’t think the test was good tbh. Should have had either wolf or pela + sparkle with Acheron, but still.
@@JohnDoe-si4eg the moc buff is also extremely good for ff so I imagine that was taken to account. Tbh if they just replaced rm with sparkle, Acheron would already clear so much faster
@@kikopikac2806 I didn’t post it here, but I calculated how much the trotter buff benefited both units. FF was 19.7% and Acheron was 10.2% or so. You can use those numbers to see how they would change the AV clear amount. I didn’t want to do that last part, but it should be pretty easy to figure out by looking at how much of the hp bar is left per attack. As the trotter in wave 2 dies instantly both will have max stacks for the only wave that matters, and both equally benefit from the AV advancement. What’d you do to calculate the damage each would do without the trotter buff is take the hp% before the attack and subtract the hp done after the attack and divide that number by the buff % I mentioned in p1 (make sure to use decimals properly, so when doing division by 19.7% you’ll do it by 1.197 [the one is bc the values were increased by that %]). And see if any unit would need additional attacks to deplete the bar. If neither would need additional actions then both benefitted equally. Else 1 benefitted more than the other. While I probably won’t do it my intuition tells me it doesn’t make a difference in FF’s case. The dps done on wave 2 first health bar should still be enough to kill in two SBE procs and the 1 shot with the second bar happens even without the buff (I used homdgcat for hp values). In other words even without the BE and AtK% FF will clear in exactly the same way. It makes sense that it wouldn’t make a difference when you consider the amount of BE Pokke already has. You can feel free to check Acheron’s side. Intuition tells me she may fail at the very end bc skill + kafka ult using the buff. So that’s what I’d start with.
Fellow E6S5 JL and FF enjoyer! I agree with you, I'm on the school of I want characters I like getting strong, firefly doesn't benefit much from the LCs once she's E6 but it's all about wanting to make your favourite characters the best. My entire roster is lacking outside the others but they do more than enough to deal, even when the mechanics are not around. I was thinking next one im going for will be the monoquantum team, starting with Seele, SW and Sparkle evenly until I get them all E6S5 as they get revived slowly.
I personally think e6 acheron is better, purefly because with firefly..............Hoyo can just introduce MORE enemies that block there weakness for turns, and then firefly does litterally 0 damage
tbh idk how much i care about this argument, cuz they can also just make enemies resistant to debuffs, good luck charging acheron then. what i will agree is E6 acheron > E6 firefly, but the argument itself of presenting a specific enemy that counters specific character is not a real debate, cuz that could happen to any character there is.
@@uttkarsh2092 i agree with u if they want to do they can just make enemies to counter any character in game it not really a debate more like excuse using that topic.
@@uttkarsh2092 I would agree but the only thing is the game already has enemies that hide toughness bar. Yes thereotically maybe even likely that they can just introduce any enemy that hard counters a character but we’ve been getting enemies that hide toughness bar since like patch 1. It already is an issue while enemies that cleanse themselves or that are fully resistant to debuffs are still speculative.
And? If this was a E0S0 comparison sure you could make an argument but at E6? Burh at this lvl of investment characters can solo the game lol BTW in the beta E0S0 FF could 0 cycle this most without a MoC buff so it's a nonfactor...
@@Miku-Izayoi I literally said why... she 0 cycles most MoC without a buff I.E this MoC being Break focused is irrelevant to FF power lvl. So like I said unless this is a E0S0/super low investment build comparison the current MoC buff is a non factor.
E2 Firefly > E2 Acheron, E6 Acheron = E6 Firefly. With that being said, Acheron is the better choice in general, just because as broken as superbreak is, once hoyo introduces more toughness bar-lock enemies, Firefly can't do anything. While your traditional crit-DPS like Acheron will still be able to deal dmg. Nevertheless, both of them are the best DPS to invest.
For anyone complaining abt MoC buff I’ll leave behind some quick math answers. FF’s base attack with Sig is about 1000. 2 trotters are killed. Her attack conversion doesn’t appear in the stat sheet along with the planer buff. And HMC will add some of the buff back to her. Assuming HMC is not running kaplanagi (it only adds 6%BE), then with all buffs active Pokke’s BE is 472.11. With MoC it’s 565.11%. A 19.7% boost. (FF can’t convert RM e2) Acheron’s total boost will be 10.2% (RM’s attack boost is included). Pokke’s clearly running elem orb. Using those values you can determine who would have won without any buffs. I’m not going to do it, and will instead leave it as an exercise for the reader.
I don't think Firefly having to wait to kill bosses with no weaknesses makes her worse than Acheron. She is still going to be able to kill them fast enough to get all your stars. Getting a 0 cycle is just a flex and completely unnecessary.
@@ThePigeon51 im just using your statement “getting a 0 cycle is just a flex and completely unnecessary” . Why using FF if himeko can also clear moc full star?, for flexing? 😂😂.
Definitely Firefly. E2 Acheron only opens up her teambuilding, while E2 Firefly both changes how she plays and opens up her teambuilding to go sustainless (maybe instead of Gallagher, you go Pela for def shred or Bronya for extra turns).
Firefly is much better than acheron for E2... I think the best one for now, E2 firefly and u basically have pseudo seele with innate implant weakness and SP neutral. Very good
Acheron. It opens slot for a huge support and it buffs her DMG far more. People completely forget how hard she scales if you throw with her Sparkle etc(also gets extra turns like this), that or they might be stans. You can say Fireflies E2 is better at same time, but you wont get a whole new unit that gives her massive buffs as she already have all buffs in the world. Also Acheron is getting next patch actual nihility support so her dmg will go even more up.
You can honestly probably 0 cycle this SAM if you don't start combat with Firefly technique since it kills trotter, and wait for SAM to enter combustion state, break trotter, break searing prowler for extra turns. You just have to really work around the mechanics to get to the super break point, so yes she does take L in that sense, but she does 600k damage EASILY every turn with at least 210 speed to blitz them down
For now Archeron is slightly better regarding her flexibility in team comps and with different kinds of enemies. But let's be real. Sam and Trotters have a break lock that is actually hard to deal with for Firefly. All others,, especially with E2 or higher, are super easy to deal with. And calc wise, from what I've seen Firefly has the much higher ceiling than Archeron in 1-3 target situations, with Archeron only pulling ahead in hypothetical 4-5 beefy target situations.
its clear as a day FF will always do the best on what it is suppose to do which is the "break dmg" but Acheron will be the best generally because she is an all rounder, break or not she will do the job regardless
both e6 s5 of them destroys everything but only 1%of player have them at that level and for now both of them are the best dps as you need 2 teams anyway
Worth to mention that this MOC is purely built for BE units, 2nd half is perfect for Firefly. Acheron will always deal insane dmg no matter what the situation is (except for traffic lights lmao) while for Firefly, if she can't break, she can't deal dmg, but when she does, it's nuts. Conclusion: just break your credit cards.
the glazing is real for both sides E6 Acheron is better (of course, her E4 and E6 aren't dogshit) but E2 Firefly is better and 99.9% of players will never get either, at best you'll go E2 so FF has advantage there imo even after Jiaoqiu and if Acheron keeps getting buffs. Firefly still has the benefit of not needing any investment whatsoever (literally just give her mainstats and you're done), her best support is free (HMC), her second best support is the universal RM which everyone should get anyway so its extreme value there, and then Gallagher was also free TWICE, plus ur gonna get him if ur pulling FF banner. Light cone is also irrelevant, just go with the free Herta shop one. So overall, FF major win IMO Acheron is harder to build, might need LC unless you got lucky with gnsw copies, is now forcing everyone to pull for another limited > Jiaoqiu (hopefully he's somewhat universal like Pela). Other than that she is still obviously great. and ok, to be fair.. FF is also gonna "force" ppl to pull 5* gallagher when that unit releases, maybe! Acheron has an actual requirement to use nihility units so its more pressure to get Jiaoqiu compared to swapping Gallagher for a 5*. But we all want what's best for our dps so if the new sustain is a huge upgrade then that's harder to skip and u can then argue FF team is less free, but at the same time it will also mean the team gains a tiny bit of flexibility cause u can swap 1 unit around (insane) holy yapping
The MoC enemies and buff turbo favors FF and having 3 teammates hurts Acheron much more than FF, not to mention her 2 teammates are much worse for her than FF, so this is a really insane showing for Acheron
acheron gets a shit ton of extra ult stacks because of the trotter, so saying it turbo favors ff is a bit disingenuous, 3 teammates also hurts ff cuz slower break=less superbreak dmg
Ff can’t break as fast without gallagher and as well loses out on some BE and the moc buff favours Acheron too since she gets free stacks from the trotters and as we saw she got saved at the end. You could completely remove the moc buff and these 2 exact same runs would’ve been a 0 cycle for ff and 1 for Acheron. People will cope about enemies with no toughness bar but the only one that’s a problem are the trotters in certain modes since she breaks too fast for the rest to do anything. Ff requires less investment,consistent damage without relying on crit stats and cheaper units while at the same time doing more damage and taking more turns, it isn’t really comparable
@@HSRFirefly it’s really annoying to hear people call out the MoC buff when they probably don’t even know what it actually does. The trotter is the real buff and you can see Acheron killing it in every single showcase. The extra 42% BE is NOT going to carry FF’s damage. In a 0-cycle it’s at most 84%. It’s good for compensating for shit builds, but in most cases it’s going to be 15% or less dps boost. Especially, in Mr Pokke’s case. Ofc Acheron also gets a 30% atk boost which is actually really good bc she has one of the highest base attacks in game w/sig. Not to mention she will always proc the trotter. I’ve seen some showcases where they don’t break the trotter with FF.
My E2S1 Acheron + E6S1 Sparkle + E6S1 (Sw Sig) Pela + E1S1 Aventurine. (4 cost Lower then Pokke E6S5 Acheron/E2S1 Kafka/RM) Cleared in basically the same amount of time as Mr Pokke's 3 team. (Ofc you can say Aventurine Influenced it, but even without Aventurine, but I find it crazy the close to Worst case Scneario E6S5 Acheron barely beat my E2S1 (Basically best in case Acheron scneario)
having that extra Crit dmg with Sparkle would nuke the boss way faster. idk why run Acheron with Kafka when Black Swan > Kafka and Sparkle > Ruan Mei is a much obviously better for an Acheron comp. And there is Pela too. Maybe Pokke doesnt have the Sparkle Sig LC so I’m not sure
@@implant3567 yup moc we gotta wait till next rotation too to get a more fair comparison. It also didn't help that pokke used ruanmei instead of sparkle for this on the acheron team.
Bro is showing acheron with worse team clearing Moc 0 cycle against firefly with her 2 BiS supports and MoC buffs favor firefly. And call it fair -_-", but, oh well i love them both. I got E6S5 acheron for myself and i think i'd go with sparkle + pela for showing her best (3 men scenario). Some people argue that kafka gives more stacks, but i think you will have just enough damage to ult one time less if you bring sparkle + Pela
I agree, but the MoC doesn’t favor FF nearly as much as you guys think (excluding weakness). In a 0-cycle scenario FF’s only getting an 84% BE boost. As you build gets better (S5 LC) that BE does less and less bc it’s the only stat you can grind, therefore facing the steepest diminishing returns. The trotter is the real buff and both units greatly benefit from it.
Would love to see a controller get used, cause they have a op thing... While holding down RT or LT It pauses the game, and you can legit frame advanced to snipe ults after a single boss attack, breaking them making their next moves not happen. Its 10/10
E2+ Acheron only needs 1 Nihility (If that's how your gauging the "Acheron only gets 1 support". The benefit comes from Harmony units. Of course this is not the best Acheron team by a decent bit, I'm pretty sure Pela/Sparkle would have netted more Damage to Acheron, but when your Comparing E6 vs E6 and they are both Zero cycling, The difference is in Mere AV.
@@IdeasAreBulletproof I think they’re referring to the useless Kafka. While yes E6 will always clear. Kafka Is THE literal worst unit to add in there Even Luka and Welt would help Acheron perform better in fact ignoring the passive and adding a sparkle or even Yukong would’ve been better than Kafka.
@@jessedaniels4494 How is Kafka useless here? She gives you stacks and allows you to break the boss that leads to increased dmg taken. Can she clear it without breaking in this scenario
@@maxthehololivefan427 She can easily clear without breaking considering every enemy is lightning weak and at E6 she does toughness dmg regardless of type. Kafka offers nothing, no buffs unlike every other Nihility and her dmg is crap because she’s not enabling any extra DOT. Kafka is so dead weight even Luka would be better because at least he applies a Vulnerability on the buff with his ult
Basically nothing, e1 is great but the atk doesn’t convert for firefly scaling since it affects the attack itself rather then the atk stat of the character
So we just gonna ignore the fact that firefly only required 1 limited 5 star teammate compared to acheron (and every other DPS) who requires at least 2 to get anywhere near her performance? OK. Edit: Yall saying about the turbulence need to realise that the buff is very strong for every team comp, just slightly more for firefly and boothill. Every other DPS also heavily benefits from 100% action advance, especially Acheron since she can quickly get her ult back up. Name me ANY team comp that doesnt heavily benefit from 100% action advance, I'll wait.
To be fair, the MOC is buffing Firefly so the comparison is not necessarily fair. Also Acheron's dmg doesn't disappear when the enemy has a locked toughness bar. Regardless the true loser is your wallet.
I use pela and gui and she does 800k…. You’re coping so hard it’s insane… then my fire mc for literally infinite stacks.I’ve managed to use acheron ult back to back cause fire mc is that good with trend… and non are limited…. Gui,pela,fire mc…. You’re coping….
And guys this is why Acheron is always better and remind you wait for Jiaoqiu to be out and take place of Kafka you will see Ourcheron becoming new Tier 0 to Tier negative character
They should just drop down FF in the tier list, sorry FF simps. Obviously Acheron win with just 3 men and not to mention she no weaknesses. FF is still weak against bosses with locked toughness bar. Ourcheron wins!!
Firefly is way easier to build mainly only needing spd and break effect and not god tier crit relics, her BiS team comp is a lot easier given everyone gets HTB for free and gallagher is a 4*, and RM is one of the highest pull value units in the game so pulling RM for firely isn't useless for other team comps, and her LC options for f2p are much better given she actually has a good f2p option in a fall of an aeon. Acheron has more consistent damage because she doesn't need to break enemies, will generally perform better in most content with high investment, and doesn't have the weakness of being useless against enemies with a locked toughness bar. They're both absurdly strong and deserving of T0, and there are pros and cons to each.
Acheron also can hit everything on screen, Firefly wont. And I don't think Firefly is very f2p friendly for new players at all. You need to roll for Ruan Mei if you want her to do well. At least for now Firefly have by far stronger team for buffing her dmg (Ruan Mei is the real beast here xD), but it really has no flexibility in it. Which is what I dont like personally, because I need Ruan for my dot team xD
@@astralfoxo Acheron needs multiple other 5 stars for her best in slot teams whether you’re running her hypercarry or with a dot team, whereas firefly JUST needs you to pull Ruan mei for her full potential, who everyone should pull for ruan mei anyways because she’s the most all purpose support in the game, everyone else is given to you for free. It’s absolutely a lot more f2p friendly
@@astralfoxo guinafen and gallagher are not in any of acherons best teams, you either run kafka swan, sparkle hypercarry if you have E2, or sw pela, and all of her teams that have sustains prefer fu xuan or aventurine because gallagher does nothing for the comp other than 1 debuff. You need Fu Xuan / Aventurine (1 5 star) for your BiS sustain, SW for your BiS all-purpose acheron team, (1 5 star) Sparkle for hypercarry, (1 5 star) or kafka swan (2 5 stars) to get the most out of acheron teams and to run all her BiS teams for various situations, you need 5 total 5 stars. For Firefly teams, you just need HTB RM and Gallagher and you can use that for all content.
@@WhoStoleMyNachos Uhm... No? She has the flexibility to use team like that, but it is not popular team. BS and Kafka are better in their own team. Acherons best in slot currently is Pela. Silver fills the role too or can be the second nihility. Any sustain will do, Aventurine, Fu Xuan, Gallagher. Gallagher is used with Acheron because he gives her ult stacks. You can play Acheron with only 4star and do VERY well. Firefly preforms far worse without Ruan. On other hand Acheron without Aventurine will still do damn good (You just lose a bit of crit dmg). Also my point at the beginning was Firefly and Ruan banners are up right now. You want new f2p people to just roll and win on both?
I don’t play hsr anymore. But in my opinion Acheron is way more cooler. A beautiful girl wielding a katana and a practitioner of iaijutsu is always best “for me”.
firefly is winning this one, and bear in mind we don't have any superbreak harmony other than hmc if they will release a new harmony character that can sold better than hmc, firefly literally will be a beast
A Best case Scneario Firefly's better then a mid to Worse case scneario Acheron. Who would have known, my E0S1 Acheron with my Vertically invested Sparkle & Pela Literally did Higher damage then Mr Pokke's slop case scneario. Add E2 into the Equation (I did go for E2 Acheron after getting E0S1 Acheron) and she's doing way more Damage with my Vertically Invested Sparkle & Pela vs Mr Pokke's E6S5 Acheron with E2S1 RM & Kafka.
@@IdeasAreBulletproof really??? but this is just my personal opinion. cause firefly e1 have comfort in terms of sp 😃 so i prefer those actually and the spd of her e2 are a good one no need to pull until e6 😂
No E6 S5 is worth it. You trivialize content and burn 11 possible new characters in exchange. This is coming from someone who goes up to e2 s1 and even then I'm starting to think e0 s1 should be the max.
E6 Firefly basically gets her Best case Scneario & the MOC wildly favoring her, while E6 Acheron gets no where close to her Best case Scneario & the MOC buff doesn't benefit her much. Like Kafka and Ruan Mei are easily Inferior to a Pela/Sparkle in a E6 Acheron comp and they both cleared in Zero cycles (Which is basically braindead obviously easy thing to do for an E6 DPS). It might not be like Jingliu's E6 vs DHIL's E6 but I would easily say, E6S5 Acheron =/> E6S5 Firefly.
@@HSRFireflyAcheron gets extra turn and +15% atk per trotter. Firefly gets extra turn, 15% atk and 30% break effect per trotter. It benefits Acheron for sure, but it benefits FF wayyy more. And this boss is her best case scenario. Also, Kafka was deadweight for Acheron. If Acheron gets her best case: Pela + Sparkle she ones shots both hp bars with on ult - with or without weakness break.
@@raideneiarya2188 not wayyy more. The BE buff isn’t that much, especially in Mr Pokke’s case where he has a shit ton of BE. Bc he made his builds public we can directly calculate how much of a dps boost each build got from the trotter. Firstly, FF’s attack conversion effect does take effect until combat, so it doesn’t appear in the stat sheet. Secondly, base attack with sig is about 1000 making all attack conversions after 1800 really easy to calculate. It’s unknown if HMC is running Kalpanagi (it also will not appear on the stat sheet) or not, but it would only add an extra 6% BE so I’ll leave it off. Doing so we can find that with both RM and HMC on the team FF’s total BE is 472.11 with all buffs active, including watchmaker (it’s pretty easy to keep it up perma bc e2 doesn’t burn through buffs). With the MoC buff (2 trotters) we gain 93% BE (HMC’s conversion is included) bringing the total to 565.11 about a 19.7% boost per break. Now looking at Acheron his total attack is 3372. It does not have out of combat buffs sans MoC (and RM’s ult [btw FF can’t convert this]). Skipping the boring stuff her dps will be boosted by 10.2% (RM’s ult buff included. Likewise, her respen + Acheron takes care of the off element factor. Probs why he chose her tbh). Now that we know how much the MoC buff helped both characters we can go ahead and watch the run and see what difference it would have made. I’m tired so I’ll leave that as an exercise to the reader. But I’ll also add that neutral calcs with FF and Acheron against 1 elite and 1 boss had FF winning (all on element). Even with JQ (his LC not included).
This video kinda proves that E6 Firefly gaps acheron unless the enemy is locked. But an E6S5 character getting low diffed by a trotter is something else.
Why does it matter when we know either way the loser is your wallet?
f2p players who have e6 acheron or e6 firefly: 😐
If you spend in this game just to get units thats a you problem
I'll admit I got insanity lucky and pulled E2S1 FF in less then 300 pulls as only a MP player.
but if you're a true F2P and go in with over 500+ 2 E6 a character holy based who needs 6+ Limited characters when you got a meta lvl character E6...
It's to flex towards the poor F2P Mintpicker players (in game)
@@entsensei relatable to me
And yet firefly and acheron are both completely invalidated by trotters and traffic lights respectively
If you are invalidated by traffic light thats a mere skill issue lmao. You will only have a problem with it with auto unlike firefly. What an excuse just to label acheron on fireflies inability
@@reedsad4652........it's a joke💀
add spore blessings to FF and i think she'll do fine
@@entsensei again it was a joke💀
@@Accountthatexists pls understand, theyre too terminally rtrded to understand the concept of "jokes"
We all know that Physical Trailblazer is the strongest DPS. No competition.
truest statement ever stated
Based take
Rules....
Arlan negs sadly
I just maxed his traces ...
The real winner is hoyo for all the people who E6s5 either or both FF and Acheron
Why people are arguing who is stronger? That's why we have two teams in MOC. 💀
It’s a Waifu vs Waifu argument. None shall stop till the other side has fallen
Agreed.
My e2s1 acheron covers one fight with e2s1 kafka/e2s1black swan/aventurine trends s5.
While my e2s1 Firefly demolished the other with e6 Hmc/ruan mei/e6 gallahger.
Not pulling anyone else until Jiaoqiu and next superbreak support comes out.
@@Kspice9000get lingsha, shes basically a 5* version of gallagher
you are right we need a 2v2
NGL firefly doing much more damage way faster it’s just she’s hard countered by the weakness lock
Witch is one boss Sam the rest with that Ability get nuked 2 fast, and the same could be said with Acheron and ST bosses she has trouble with them so No unit is flawless..... ( ATM it wouldn't surprise me if they did release a character like that lol )
@@The_CodFish69I think what will happen is they will release a unit that buffs energy gain a lot (possibly something like tingyun ult but on skill but prob not that insane) to catch other units up bc FF and Acheron are so much better right now
@@The_CodFish69 it's not just one boss lmao , the soda monkey , bronya , gepard and a few others i forgot about all lock their tougness
FF stan spotted. Just chill & enjoy your pixel gf.
@@risen9127 with the break team, they get broken too fast before their weakness lock comes into play... currently, so maybe in the future they'll add a true counter to her
If you can break, FF, if you can't break, Acheron. Both in same tier overall.
Surprised at the arguing, people act as if two legends cannot coexist 😢
Why do you thing people argue on who is stronger between Goku and Superman? People always want to know who is number 1, the rest are invalidated or won't be allowed to coexist at the top.
There can only be one strongest character
To the majority, there needs to be the best. Lebron vs mj. Messi vs Ronaldo. Taco Bell vs toilet
not a problem to me (have both E2) 😀
Doesnt matter who is better.
Firewifey is queen
BETWEEN ACHERON AND FIREFLY, WHICH ONE CHANGES MORE EVERYTHING?
Firefly because break is in the game's core mechanic and she makes it look like joke
Acheron because she is beautiful
I'll say wait until they release a support that have toughness bar protection penetration. With powercreep being the way it is I'll say it will come eventually.
hummm u got a point🧐
Wait till Jiaoqiu comes out as well
@@johntyh Yep. Currently both Acheron and FF don't have their dedicated limited sustain. But Acheron does have more flexibility because she plays like a hypercarry who needs nihility instead of harmony supports. So as they release more break support FF will get more flexible as well. Once we get a new path for MC they need to either make a new limited support to replace HMC or make the new path work with Super Break to keep the two as each other's BiS.
Either way I'm not really worried about these 2 NOT getting support in the future. Raiden Mei has been their favourite child for a very long time and Firefly is looking to be a new favourite in the making with how much they're pushing for her. If this patch met or exceed Acheron's revenue you better believe that they're gonna keep her alive by giving her newer support instead of making a new character who's just Firefly 2.0.
Will they powercreep her eventually? Yeah. Same way they're gonna powercreep Acheron eventually. They'll make support unit to keep dps good for some time and then they'll release a new character that does more damage. Or they just release a new version of the character. Alter version is a popular and easy way to release new characters that are guarenteed to generate revenue.
Point is they're both good now, will get better with newer supports and then eventually fall off as they get powercrept. Luckily they're popular characters so they're going to get more than other characters.
@@iqhmalRedux If they ever release a newer version of Kafka I'm going in full adventurine mode. All or nothing I don't care.
@@iqhmalReduxAven with LC is Acheron’s limited sustain. At the rate he can proc those debuffs there won’t be a better one for her. Maybe a cheaper version eventually, but never better.
I like that one YT chat that said: Arlan is Better
Why use Kafka of all the Nihility units, she offers absolutely fuck all for Acheron even a Pela would be better. Like this is the worst possible scenario for Acheron.
Pela is BIS for Acheron currently. That and if Sparkle was put in place of Ruan Mei, he would have easily had a decent amount of AV to spare on his Acheron when Zero cycling, & Unironically in her Worst case scneario, E6S5 Acheron in her Worst case scneario is basically = to E6S5 Firefly in her best case scneario.
yea feels like kafka was a nerf so he's basically addmitting that acheron is better, couldnt even run her bis team lol
@@QMS9224 that’s such a big Nerf tho Kafka offers literally nothing besides triggering the passive tbh ignoring the passive for a 4 star Harmony would probably be more damage lol
kafka stacks acheron ult fastest. If your bottleneck is by count of ult and not by ult damage, kafka is BiS
@@IdeasAreBulletproof Even if this is true, the marginal extra damage Acheron provides get's completely swamped by the FF team since Ghallager is basically a DPS.
The Acheron Hyper carry team is significantly less damage than the DOT Acheron team, but even then that team can't keep up with break teams overall damage unless they run no sustain, and even then they fall short. Whereas super break team comp has sustain and more overall damage, + the sustain from delaying actions.
Am I dumb or why do i think pela would've been better with the e6 Acheron than E2S1 Kafka?
Pela is better then Kafka though for Acheron, Pokke would have gotten quite a bit more Damage from Acheron if he used Pela over Kafka, I can also say that Sparkle is easily better then Ruan Mei for a E2+ Acheron.
Pelea cant apply de buffs nearly as consistently as Kafka the point is to get her ult up as fast as possible
Acheron for all-rounder.
Firefly with toughness lock just ain't it. kek
seeing every firefly video after losing 50/50 to me feel better
imagine not saving after spending 20k of her credits
wouldnt sparkle and pela/ sw be better for acheron? or is the moc buff so worth it?
Is MrPokke bad at TC or was on propose to bring RM and Kafka to Acheron team ? that team damage is so much lower than Pela + sparkle (even E2 acherons do 1+m damage easily with those 2) , dotcheron doesnt outperform pela + sparkle until you have eidolons on BS or kafka , and dotcheron needs BS way more than kafka, this showing was so freaking troll lol
RUclips chat, let's be honest, even if one is better than the other at E6, 99% of u guys won't have those E6s5. Not saying it invalidates any speculations u can have but as someone who has E6s5 Jingliu and Firefly, at the very least I know the experience is pretty much overkill anyways.
Even E0 FF is already too much from my experience
V true. But tell me how FF performed better and they still picked Acheron. I don’t think the test was good tbh. Should have had either wolf or pela + sparkle with Acheron, but still.
Thanks for offsetting the cost for many F2P people.
@@JohnDoe-si4eg the moc buff is also extremely good for ff so I imagine that was taken to account. Tbh if they just replaced rm with sparkle, Acheron would already clear so much faster
@@kikopikac2806 I didn’t post it here, but I calculated how much the trotter buff benefited both units. FF was 19.7% and Acheron was 10.2% or so. You can use those numbers to see how they would change the AV clear amount. I didn’t want to do that last part, but it should be pretty easy to figure out by looking at how much of the hp bar is left per attack.
As the trotter in wave 2 dies instantly both will have max stacks for the only wave that matters, and both equally benefit from the AV advancement.
What’d you do to calculate the damage each would do without the trotter buff is take the hp% before the attack and subtract the hp done after the attack and divide that number by the buff % I mentioned in p1 (make sure to use decimals properly, so when doing division by 19.7% you’ll do it by 1.197 [the one is bc the values were increased by that %]). And see if any unit would need additional attacks to deplete the bar. If neither would need additional actions then both benefitted equally. Else 1 benefitted more than the other.
While I probably won’t do it my intuition tells me it doesn’t make a difference in FF’s case. The dps done on wave 2 first health bar should still be enough to kill in two SBE procs and the 1 shot with the second bar happens even without the buff (I used homdgcat for hp values).
In other words even without the BE and AtK% FF will clear in exactly the same way. It makes sense that it wouldn’t make a difference when you consider the amount of BE Pokke already has.
You can feel free to check Acheron’s side. Intuition tells me she may fail at the very end bc skill + kafka ult using the buff. So that’s what I’d start with.
Fellow E6S5 JL and FF enjoyer! I agree with you, I'm on the school of I want characters I like getting strong, firefly doesn't benefit much from the LCs once she's E6 but it's all about wanting to make your favourite characters the best.
My entire roster is lacking outside the others but they do more than enough to deal, even when the mechanics are not around. I was thinking next one im going for will be the monoquantum team, starting with Seele, SW and Sparkle evenly until I get them all E6S5 as they get revived slowly.
Here before the saltiest comments.
I personally think e6 acheron is better, purefly because with firefly..............Hoyo can just introduce MORE enemies that block there weakness for turns, and then firefly does litterally 0 damage
tbh idk how much i care about this argument, cuz they can also just make enemies resistant to debuffs, good luck charging acheron then. what i will agree is E6 acheron > E6 firefly, but the argument itself of presenting a specific enemy that counters specific character is not a real debate, cuz that could happen to any character there is.
But maybe they just won't do that yk
inb4 they release a support that gives immunity piercing
@@uttkarsh2092 i agree with u if they want to do they can just make enemies to counter any character in game it not really a debate more like excuse using that topic.
@@uttkarsh2092 I would agree but the only thing is the game already has enemies that hide toughness bar. Yes thereotically maybe even likely that they can just introduce any enemy that hard counters a character but we’ve been getting enemies that hide toughness bar since like patch 1. It already is an issue while enemies that cleanse themselves or that are fully resistant to debuffs are still speculative.
Acheron is a woman, Firefly is just a girl, maybe when she is older she can compete.
Firefly is s old as fuck wdym 😂
Acheron is senile.
Bro, Firefly is older than Blade
firefly wont grow old enough to be a woman 💀
@
@hidefhq this guy needs to get his info right lol.
What the fuck is upswing??
Upswing or uppercut. Basically an attack move in generic fight games.
Danjin wuwa brainrot
He played too much danjin
WuWa Brainrot
UPSWING
Are you actually making faces , because your jawline doesn't seem like it's the proper way of mewing
imagine use e2 acheron without sparkle and pela as support 💀
Ngl we need this at a different moc as this favors break no?
And? If this was a E0S0 comparison sure you could make an argument but at E6? Burh at this lvl of investment characters can solo the game lol
BTW in the beta E0S0 FF could 0 cycle this most without a MoC buff so it's a nonfactor...
@@The_CodFish69 and? If you don't want to see it then don't. But I do.
And what does beta FF have anything to do with this?
yeah, there can never be a fair comparison as long as one side has an advantage.
stuff like enemy weakness resistance, buff etc etc.
@@Miku-Izayoi I literally said why... she 0 cycles most MoC without a buff I.E this MoC being Break focused is irrelevant to FF power lvl.
So like I said unless this is a E0S0/super low investment build comparison the current MoC buff is a non factor.
@@The_CodFish69 what does beta ff have to do with the live one
FF is very F2P friendly just get herta's destruction LC and gallagher - mc - asta or ruan mei if u have her thats it
FF is also hella easier to build stats/relic wise
Edit: I only needed so-so relics for FF. Acheron I'm still in relic hell
I'm a keep it a buck if you don't E6 S5 both Acheron and Firefly then they're not your wife and girlfriend
I look forward to when he can speak proper English.
E2 Firefly > E2 Acheron, E6 Acheron = E6 Firefly.
With that being said, Acheron is the better choice in general, just because as broken as superbreak is, once hoyo introduces more toughness bar-lock enemies, Firefly can't do anything. While your traditional crit-DPS like Acheron will still be able to deal dmg.
Nevertheless, both of them are the best DPS to invest.
THeres a high chance they introduce debuff lock and they make it so acheron gets her ult like every 4 turns
We already have elites that takes highly reduced dmg when not weakness broken, it's just a matter of time when bosses of those will come
At e0s1 and e0s0 what is your opinion?
Same could be said with Acheron tbh if they introduce enemies that can resist debuffs.
@@simonditomasso9868 i’ll give e0s0 to Firefly and e0s1 to Acheron.
Firefly’s LC is okay but not as “game changing” as Acheron’s.
For anyone complaining abt MoC buff I’ll leave behind some quick math answers. FF’s base attack with Sig is about 1000. 2 trotters are killed. Her attack conversion doesn’t appear in the stat sheet along with the planer buff. And HMC will add some of the buff back to her. Assuming HMC is not running kaplanagi (it only adds 6%BE), then with all buffs active Pokke’s BE is 472.11. With MoC it’s 565.11%. A 19.7% boost. (FF can’t convert RM e2)
Acheron’s total boost will be 10.2% (RM’s attack boost is included). Pokke’s clearly running elem orb.
Using those values you can determine who would have won without any buffs. I’m not going to do it, and will instead leave it as an exercise for the reader.
He using the worst team for acheron💀☠️.
I don't think Firefly having to wait to kill bosses with no weaknesses makes her worse than Acheron. She is still going to be able to kill them fast enough to get all your stars. Getting a 0 cycle is just a flex and completely unnecessary.
Yeah, use himeko also good enough to get all star, so?. Some ppl enjoy not being mediocre.
@kevinsidharta9748 comparing himeko to firefly to himeko is stupid
@@ThePigeon51 im just using your statement “getting a 0 cycle is just a flex and completely unnecessary” . Why using FF if himeko can also clear moc full star?, for flexing? 😂😂.
Acheron is better hands down.
Real question tho, who has better E2, Acheron or firefly?
Definitely Firefly. E2 Acheron only opens up her teambuilding, while E2 Firefly both changes how she plays and opens up her teambuilding to go sustainless (maybe instead of Gallagher, you go Pela for def shred or Bronya for extra turns).
Firefly is much better than acheron for E2... I think the best one for now, E2 firefly and u basically have pseudo seele with innate implant weakness and SP neutral. Very good
@@koko-hh2bqI don’t think you want to replace Gallagher cuz his damage is so great
@@kikopikac2806 Ik, it's just an example if people want to run a more "traditional" comp with Firefly at E2
Acheron. It opens slot for a huge support and it buffs her DMG far more. People completely forget how hard she scales if you throw with her Sparkle etc(also gets extra turns like this), that or they might be stans. You can say Fireflies E2 is better at same time, but you wont get a whole new unit that gives her massive buffs as she already have all buffs in the world.
Also Acheron is getting next patch actual nihility support so her dmg will go even more up.
2:06 I highly suggest you ult firefly first then get her combustion turn then HMC ult, in that way, you wont lose an extra turn buff
assuming mc's not on watchmaker, what buff does doing this prolong exactly
@@ccmusiccbreak buff from hmc ig...?
@@marco_polo9469don't think it does tho
@@ccmusicc then its nothing then unless rm has her lightcone
@@marco_polo9469 thats what im thinking atm, 3:55 shows hmc doesnt have rm lc
You can honestly probably 0 cycle this SAM if you don't start combat with Firefly technique since it kills trotter, and wait for SAM to enter combustion state, break trotter, break searing prowler for extra turns. You just have to really work around the mechanics to get to the super break point, so yes she does take L in that sense, but she does 600k damage EASILY every turn with at least 210 speed to blitz them down
For now Archeron is slightly better regarding her flexibility in team comps and with different kinds of enemies. But let's be real. Sam and Trotters have a break lock that is actually hard to deal with for Firefly. All others,, especially with E2 or higher, are super easy to deal with. And calc wise, from what I've seen Firefly has the much higher ceiling than Archeron in 1-3 target situations, with Archeron only pulling ahead in hypothetical 4-5 beefy target situations.
its clear as a day FF will always do the best on what it is suppose to do which is the "break dmg" but Acheron will be the best generally because she is an all rounder, break or not she will do the job regardless
both e6 s5 of them destroys everything but only 1%of player have them at that level and for now both of them are the best dps as you need 2 teams anyway
Worth to mention that this MOC is purely built for BE units, 2nd half is perfect for Firefly. Acheron will always deal insane dmg no matter what the situation is (except for traffic lights lmao) while for Firefly, if she can't break, she can't deal dmg, but when she does, it's nuts.
Conclusion: just break your credit cards.
Dont worry, in the future mihoyo will release harmony with ability to unlock weakness 😌
i think with e6 s5 Acheron would pop off more with another harmony like Sparkle
And still only Deal 600k ST. With her best team on top of that
fact : best way to watch Mr Pokke 's video , 2x speed
the glazing is real for both sides
E6 Acheron is better (of course, her E4 and E6 aren't dogshit)
but E2 Firefly is better
and 99.9% of players will never get either, at best you'll go E2 so FF has advantage there imo
even after Jiaoqiu and if Acheron keeps getting buffs. Firefly still has the benefit of not needing any investment whatsoever (literally just give her mainstats and you're done), her best support is free (HMC), her second best support is the universal RM which everyone should get anyway so its extreme value there, and then Gallagher was also free TWICE, plus ur gonna get him if ur pulling FF banner. Light cone is also irrelevant, just go with the free Herta shop one. So overall, FF major win IMO
Acheron is harder to build, might need LC unless you got lucky with gnsw copies, is now forcing everyone to pull for another limited > Jiaoqiu (hopefully he's somewhat universal like Pela). Other than that she is still obviously great.
and ok, to be fair.. FF is also gonna "force" ppl to pull 5* gallagher when that unit releases, maybe! Acheron has an actual requirement to use nihility units so its more pressure to get Jiaoqiu compared to swapping Gallagher for a 5*. But we all want what's best for our dps so if the new sustain is a huge upgrade then that's harder to skip and u can then argue FF team is less free, but at the same time it will also mean the team gains a tiny bit of flexibility cause u can swap 1 unit around (insane)
holy yapping
The MoC enemies and buff turbo favors FF and having 3 teammates hurts Acheron much more than FF, not to mention her 2 teammates are much worse for her than FF, so this is a really insane showing for Acheron
Acheron getting those extra turns for basically 3x crimson knots tho.
acheron gets a shit ton of extra ult stacks because of the trotter, so saying it turbo favors ff is a bit disingenuous, 3 teammates also hurts ff cuz slower break=less superbreak dmg
It's definitely way worse for Firefly, acheron has it easy with how good Kafka and herself at E6 get stacks
Ff can’t break as fast without gallagher and as well loses out on some BE and the moc buff favours Acheron too since she gets free stacks from the trotters and as we saw she got saved at the end. You could completely remove the moc buff and these 2 exact same runs would’ve been a 0 cycle for ff and 1 for Acheron. People will cope about enemies with no toughness bar but the only one that’s a problem are the trotters in certain modes since she breaks too fast for the rest to do anything. Ff requires less investment,consistent damage without relying on crit stats and cheaper units while at the same time doing more damage and taking more turns, it isn’t really comparable
@@HSRFirefly it’s really annoying to hear people call out the MoC buff when they probably don’t even know what it actually does. The trotter is the real buff and you can see Acheron killing it in every single showcase.
The extra 42% BE is NOT going to carry FF’s damage. In a 0-cycle it’s at most 84%. It’s good for compensating for shit builds, but in most cases it’s going to be 15% or less dps boost. Especially, in Mr Pokke’s case.
Ofc Acheron also gets a 30% atk boost which is actually really good bc she has one of the highest base attacks in game w/sig. Not to mention she will always proc the trotter. I’ve seen some showcases where they don’t break the trotter with FF.
Acheron nerf but better all DPS
i plan to c6 acheron idk about nthe firefly
Well, you're going to be planning for a while
wallet better
My E2S1 Acheron + E6S1 Sparkle + E6S1 (Sw Sig) Pela + E1S1 Aventurine. (4 cost Lower then Pokke E6S5 Acheron/E2S1 Kafka/RM) Cleared in basically the same amount of time as Mr Pokke's 3 team. (Ofc you can say Aventurine Influenced it, but even without Aventurine, but I find it crazy the close to Worst case Scneario E6S5 Acheron barely beat my E2S1 (Basically best in case Acheron scneario)
having that extra Crit dmg with Sparkle would nuke the boss way faster. idk why run Acheron with Kafka when Black Swan > Kafka and Sparkle > Ruan Mei is a much obviously better for an Acheron comp. And there is Pela too. Maybe Pokke doesnt have the Sparkle Sig LC so I’m not sure
i would love to see an apocolyptic shadow comparison since it tracks exact av :)
I mean the comparison is just best for after the current rotation of buffs, everything is basically made for superbreak rn.
@@inventedbaton958so is moc atm lol
@@implant3567 yup moc we gotta wait till next rotation too to get a more fair comparison. It also didn't help that pokke used ruanmei instead of sparkle for this on the acheron team.
in the future SUPER DOT and SUPER CRIT is coming or DOT that can crit
Только Аахерон получит паверкрип в 2.4 и предётся опять сравнивать😁
Let’s be real here chat bro is gonna abandon firefly again once 1.1 wuwa drops
random tekken OST lmao
Bro is showing acheron with worse team clearing Moc 0 cycle against firefly with her 2 BiS supports and MoC buffs favor firefly. And call it fair -_-", but, oh well i love them both.
I got E6S5 acheron for myself and i think i'd go with sparkle + pela for showing her best (3 men scenario). Some people argue that kafka gives more stacks, but i think you will have just enough damage to ult one time less if you bring sparkle + Pela
I agree, but the MoC doesn’t favor FF nearly as much as you guys think (excluding weakness).
In a 0-cycle scenario FF’s only getting an 84% BE boost. As you build gets better (S5 LC) that BE does less and less bc it’s the only stat you can grind, therefore facing the steepest diminishing returns.
The trotter is the real buff and both units greatly benefit from it.
Macaron team : 3 limited unit
Firefly team : 2 limited unit
Why not E2 FF VS E2 Acherussy?😑🧐
0:55 um wot was that i didn't hear you... lol
Against broken enemy: SAM
Against locked enemy: fuego-mosca ._.
1:15 I get you editor 😂
Would love to see a controller get used, cause they have a op thing...
While holding down RT or LT
It pauses the game, and you can legit frame advanced to snipe ults after a single boss attack, breaking them making their next moves not happen.
Its 10/10
I mean you can still do that without freezing the game, I do it on mobile no problem
This thumbnail style is getting on my nerve
Seeing FF having trouble with weakness locked enemies, I can feel that they might add more enemies like the trash can 4sho
So Pokke finally ran out of his Star Bucks for e6
Do we know why Mr.Pokke says upswing lmao
its a voiceline from danjin in wuwa
tf Kafka doing in that team
firefly gets 2 supports. Acheron gets one.
E2+ Acheron only needs 1 Nihility (If that's how your gauging the "Acheron only gets 1 support". The benefit comes from Harmony units. Of course this is not the best Acheron team by a decent bit, I'm pretty sure Pela/Sparkle would have netted more Damage to Acheron, but when your Comparing E6 vs E6 and they are both Zero cycling, The difference is in Mere AV.
@@IdeasAreBulletproof I think they’re referring to the useless Kafka. While yes E6 will always clear. Kafka Is THE literal worst unit to add in there Even Luka and Welt would help Acheron perform better in fact ignoring the passive and adding a sparkle or even Yukong would’ve been better than Kafka.
@@jessedaniels4494 How is Kafka useless here? She gives you stacks and allows you to break the boss that leads to increased dmg taken. Can she clear it without breaking in this scenario
@@maxthehololivefan427 She can easily clear without breaking considering every enemy is lightning weak and at E6 she does toughness dmg regardless of type. Kafka offers nothing, no buffs unlike every other Nihility and her dmg is crap because she’s not enabling any extra DOT. Kafka is so dead weight even Luka would be better because at least he applies a Vulnerability on the buff with his ult
@maxthehololivefan427 she gives less stacks than almost any other Nihility, DoTcheron works because of Black Swan not Kafka
Are we comparing the franchise's favorite child Raiden Mei in Mihoyo's favorite child Honkai Star Rail to firefly?
is slow ruan mei better for firefly?
Why do you play hoyogames? Did you quit wuwa or something?
FYI he started playing HSR and Genshin before WuWa. Plus is it bad to play a variety of games?
@@HSRFirefly Yes, hoyogames is for child predator.
@@HSRFirefly Yes, hoyogames is for child m*l*ster
How much does Ruan Meis E2 benefit firefly.
Basically nothing, e1 is great but the atk doesn’t convert for firefly scaling since it affects the attack itself rather then the atk stat of the character
Only E1 apply, E2 doesn't do anything for FF.
So we just gonna ignore the fact that firefly only required 1 limited 5 star teammate compared to acheron (and every other DPS) who requires at least 2 to get anywhere near her performance?
OK.
Edit: Yall saying about the turbulence need to realise that the buff is very strong for every team comp, just slightly more for firefly and boothill. Every other DPS also heavily benefits from 100% action advance, especially Acheron since she can quickly get her ult back up.
Name me ANY team comp that doesnt heavily benefit from 100% action advance, I'll wait.
And which e6 doesn't require a single 5 star huh .
To be fair, the MOC is buffing Firefly so the comparison is not necessarily fair. Also Acheron's dmg doesn't disappear when the enemy has a locked toughness bar. Regardless the true loser is your wallet.
I use pela and gui and she does 800k…. You’re coping so hard it’s insane… then my fire mc for literally infinite stacks.I’ve managed to use acheron ult back to back cause fire mc is that good with trend… and non are limited…. Gui,pela,fire mc…. You’re coping….
Are we going to ignore the MoC buff and stage designed for firefly? Also 3 man team with Acheron with e1 ruan mei and pela can be done as well
@@FD-wl7xq 800k in su ? Or in moc which is highly favoured for her ?
Isnt e6 acheron better with bronya?
FF IS BREEDABLE
Pokke cut is cooked beyond belief
11:47 firefly vs sam
team acheron
The damage is very human
Since it's all benefiting firefly this moc i guess it's Acheron the better one
𝕹𝖚𝖈𝖑𝖊𝖆𝖗 E6
o
anybody tried crit firefly? im curious
yeah, she turned into a housefly
Even at whale investment critfly will always do less dmg than a mediocre break effect build
You'll convert her to Blade if you do
and Critfly easily gets Outdpsed by a Hook.
Firefly you are my sunshine
mid vs mid 🥱🥱😴😴
Genuinely better take than “powercreep matters” adepts
I got them both as a f2p player, so im the winner here😅
And guys this is why Acheron is always better and remind you wait for Jiaoqiu to be out and take place of Kafka you will see Ourcheron becoming new Tier 0 to Tier negative character
They should just drop down FF in the tier list, sorry FF simps. Obviously Acheron win with just 3 men and not to mention she no weaknesses. FF is still weak against bosses with locked toughness bar. Ourcheron wins!!
Firefly is way easier to build mainly only needing spd and break effect and not god tier crit relics, her BiS team comp is a lot easier given everyone gets HTB for free and gallagher is a 4*, and RM is one of the highest pull value units in the game so pulling RM for firely isn't useless for other team comps, and her LC options for f2p are much better given she actually has a good f2p option in a fall of an aeon. Acheron has more consistent damage because she doesn't need to break enemies, will generally perform better in most content with high investment, and doesn't have the weakness of being useless against enemies with a locked toughness bar. They're both absurdly strong and deserving of T0, and there are pros and cons to each.
Acheron also can hit everything on screen, Firefly wont. And I don't think Firefly is very f2p friendly for new players at all. You need to roll for Ruan Mei if you want her to do well. At least for now Firefly have by far stronger team for buffing her dmg (Ruan Mei is the real beast here xD), but it really has no flexibility in it. Which is what I dont like personally, because I need Ruan for my dot team xD
@@astralfoxo Acheron needs multiple other 5 stars for her best in slot teams whether you’re running her hypercarry or with a dot team, whereas firefly JUST needs you to pull Ruan mei for her full potential, who everyone should pull for ruan mei anyways because she’s the most all purpose support in the game, everyone else is given to you for free. It’s absolutely a lot more f2p friendly
@@WhoStoleMyNachos You just need pela and Gui. For sustain Gallager. Where is your "multiple" 5stars???
@@astralfoxo guinafen and gallagher are not in any of acherons best teams, you either run kafka swan, sparkle hypercarry if you have E2, or sw pela, and all of her teams that have sustains prefer fu xuan or aventurine because gallagher does nothing for the comp other than 1 debuff. You need Fu Xuan / Aventurine (1 5 star) for your BiS sustain, SW for your BiS all-purpose acheron team, (1 5 star) Sparkle for hypercarry, (1 5 star) or kafka swan (2 5 stars) to get the most out of acheron teams and to run all her BiS teams for various situations, you need 5 total 5 stars. For Firefly teams, you just need HTB RM and Gallagher and you can use that for all content.
@@WhoStoleMyNachos Uhm... No? She has the flexibility to use team like that, but it is not popular team. BS and Kafka are better in their own team.
Acherons best in slot currently is Pela. Silver fills the role too or can be the second nihility. Any sustain will do, Aventurine, Fu Xuan, Gallagher. Gallagher is used with Acheron because he gives her ult stacks.
You can play Acheron with only 4star and do VERY well.
Firefly preforms far worse without Ruan. On other hand Acheron without Aventurine will still do damn good (You just lose a bit of crit dmg).
Also my point at the beginning was Firefly and Ruan banners are up right now. You want new f2p people to just roll and win on both?
I don’t play hsr anymore. But in my opinion Acheron is way more cooler. A beautiful girl wielding a katana and a practitioner of iaijutsu is always best “for me”.
firefly is winning this one, and bear in mind we don't have any superbreak harmony other than hmc if they will release a new harmony character that can sold better than hmc, firefly literally will be a beast
Not really he used worse comp for acheron to try and even the playing field
A Best case Scneario Firefly's better then a mid to Worse case scneario Acheron. Who would have known, my E0S1 Acheron with my Vertically invested Sparkle & Pela Literally did Higher damage then Mr Pokke's slop case scneario. Add E2 into the Equation (I did go for E2 Acheron after getting E0S1 Acheron) and she's doing way more Damage with my Vertically Invested Sparkle & Pela vs Mr Pokke's E6S5 Acheron with E2S1 RM & Kafka.
@@CordneyRobinson i agree but this is just my personal opinion 😃
@@IdeasAreBulletproof really??? but this is just my personal opinion. cause firefly e1 have comfort in terms of sp 😃 so i prefer those actually and the spd of her e2 are a good one no need to pull until e6 😂
No E6 S5 is worth it. You trivialize content and burn 11 possible new characters in exchange. This is coming from someone who goes up to e2 s1 and even then I'm starting to think e0 s1 should be the max.
Acheron doesn’t have Jiaoqiu yet, so she doesn’t have her best in slot team yet-- she has the potential to become even more powerful
E6 Firefly basically gets her Best case Scneario & the MOC wildly favoring her, while E6 Acheron gets no where close to her Best case Scneario & the MOC buff doesn't benefit her much. Like Kafka and Ruan Mei are easily Inferior to a Pela/Sparkle in a E6 Acheron comp and they both cleared in Zero cycles (Which is basically braindead obviously easy thing to do for an E6 DPS). It might not be like Jingliu's E6 vs DHIL's E6 but I would easily say, E6S5 Acheron =/> E6S5 Firefly.
Really? Her getting an extra turn to generate 3 more crimson knots is not beneficial for her?
@@HSRFireflyAcheron gets extra turn and +15% atk per trotter. Firefly gets extra turn, 15% atk and 30% break effect per trotter. It benefits Acheron for sure, but it benefits FF wayyy more. And this boss is her best case scenario. Also, Kafka was deadweight for Acheron. If Acheron gets her best case: Pela + Sparkle she ones shots both hp bars with on ult - with or without weakness break.
@@raideneiarya2188 not wayyy more. The BE buff isn’t that much, especially in Mr Pokke’s case where he has a shit ton of BE.
Bc he made his builds public we can directly calculate how much of a dps boost each build got from the trotter.
Firstly, FF’s attack conversion effect does take effect until combat, so it doesn’t appear in the stat sheet. Secondly, base attack with sig is about 1000 making all attack conversions after 1800 really easy to calculate. It’s unknown if HMC is running Kalpanagi (it also will not appear on the stat sheet) or not, but it would only add an extra 6% BE so I’ll leave it off.
Doing so we can find that with both RM and HMC on the team FF’s total BE is 472.11 with all buffs active, including watchmaker (it’s pretty easy to keep it up perma bc e2 doesn’t burn through buffs). With the MoC buff (2 trotters) we gain 93% BE (HMC’s conversion is included) bringing the total to 565.11 about a 19.7% boost per break.
Now looking at Acheron his total attack is 3372. It does not have out of combat buffs sans MoC (and RM’s ult [btw FF can’t convert this]). Skipping the boring stuff her dps will be boosted by 10.2% (RM’s ult buff included. Likewise, her respen + Acheron takes care of the off element factor. Probs why he chose her tbh).
Now that we know how much the MoC buff helped both characters we can go ahead and watch the run and see what difference it would have made. I’m tired so I’ll leave that as an exercise to the reader. But I’ll also add that neutral calcs with FF and Acheron against 1 elite and 1 boss had FF winning (all on element). Even with JQ (his LC not included).
@@HSRFirefly Yes it is but Pela and Sparkle would be better then Kafka and RM.
you should stfu. pela sparkle would be worse than his whale e6s5 ruan mei and e2s1 kafka
The Acheron brainrot is real
don't forget that this moc cycle is made for firely
weirdo she is a minor and your calling her your gf
I used them both in one comp and it's atee😎👊
Also in the Acheron run you didn't use 2 nihility units and didn't receive the full buff for her
E6 only need 1
E2+ only needs 1 Nihility. She's getting the full buff with Just Kafka.
This video kinda proves that E6 Firefly gaps acheron unless the enemy is locked.
But an E6S5 character getting low diffed by a trotter is something else.
Acheron team was omega trash, even E2 acherons do more damage with pela + sparkle, he troll hard