Disagree that the estimator doesn’t need to be an electrician As someone who has built jobs, and dealt with this idea of a material man doing takeoffs. Often times they overlook things they aren’t aware of. -conduit for low voltage subs comes to mind -AV-FA-Security-Data cabling Mechanical spaces-hard lid ceiling all require conduit This is always missed And I get blamed for going over on cost How about time to build out the electrical room. We will be non productive in those areas We will take time to build out those rooms Check clearances and install will be to a premium in those areas No time is given when using those “assemblies” Digging underground how about when we do the work to stub up electrical rooms. This work is achieved with a lot of layout-sand-unistrut that Never makes the bids I think it’s hubris to say they don’t need to have experience to know our true costs.
@shanetempleman452, Brian Hoffelder here. Thank you very much for your input, thoughts and critique! I agree that the perspective of a field electrician is insightful and valuable for all of the mistakes/missed parts of the takeoff/job (e.g. conduit for low voltage subs comes to mind -AV-FA-Security-Data cabling). But I don't see any reason that a non-electrician can't learn to include the costs. Ditto for understanding that mechanical spaces with hard lids require conduit. All of the other issues you raise, which a non-electrician might miss or not fully comprehend, are also valid. And again, this can be learned from getting "eyes on" exposure to the job site and getting input from the field employees. My experience over the many years and literally thousands of estimators I have trained and worked with is that some of the best electricians don't necessarily make great estimators; at least not without some training and coaching. Two things are typical. Most really good electricians are very detailed, to the point where they get overly bogged down in the detail when estimating. This takes additional estimating time and often results in overcompensating labor and material requirements. But the opposite also happens. The really good electricians tend to think in terms of how long any task should take, how long it would take them or one of their best electricians to perform a task. In this case, the electrician/estimator needs to learn and be trained to think in terms of the average journeyman and/or apprentice and to also include realistic allowances for the other non-productive factors you mention. The balance between detailed analyses and realistic allowances is essential to accurate and competitive estimates. Also, if you, as the estimator, are getting blamed for going over budget when you don't include some of these non-productive factors, then it is important that all involved understand how important these issues are. Thanks for your thoughts and input!! - Brian Hoffelder
Great Video guys!
Disagree that the estimator doesn’t need to be an electrician
As someone who has built jobs, and dealt with this idea of a material man doing takeoffs. Often times they overlook things they aren’t aware of.
-conduit for low voltage subs comes to mind -AV-FA-Security-Data cabling
Mechanical spaces-hard lid ceiling all require conduit
This is always missed
And I get blamed for going over on cost
How about time to build out the electrical room.
We will be non productive in those areas
We will take time to build out those rooms
Check clearances and install will be to a premium in those areas
No time is given when using those “assemblies”
Digging underground how about when we do the work to stub up electrical rooms. This work is achieved with a lot of layout-sand-unistrut that Never makes the bids
I think it’s hubris to say they don’t need to have experience to know our true costs.
@shanetempleman452, Brian Hoffelder here. Thank you very much for your input, thoughts and critique!
I agree that the perspective of a field electrician is insightful and valuable for all of the mistakes/missed parts of the takeoff/job (e.g. conduit for low voltage subs comes to mind -AV-FA-Security-Data cabling). But I don't see any reason that a non-electrician can't learn to include the costs. Ditto for understanding that mechanical spaces with hard lids require conduit.
All of the other issues you raise, which a non-electrician might miss or not fully comprehend, are also valid. And again, this can be learned from getting "eyes on" exposure to the job site and getting input from the field employees.
My experience over the many years and literally thousands of estimators I have trained and worked with is that some of the best electricians don't necessarily make great estimators; at least not without some training and coaching.
Two things are typical. Most really good electricians are very detailed, to the point where they get overly bogged down in the detail when estimating. This takes additional estimating time and often results in overcompensating labor and material requirements.
But the opposite also happens. The really good electricians tend to think in terms of how long any task should take, how long it would take them or one of their best electricians to perform a task. In this case, the electrician/estimator needs to learn and be trained to think in terms of the average journeyman and/or apprentice and to also include realistic allowances for the other non-productive factors you mention.
The balance between detailed analyses and realistic allowances is essential to accurate and competitive estimates.
Also, if you, as the estimator, are getting blamed for going over budget when you don't include some of these non-productive factors, then it is important that all involved understand how important these issues are.
Thanks for your thoughts and input!! - Brian Hoffelder