The Iceman's Primitive Survival Skills and Artifacts: Back Pannier
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- www.Primal-Know.... Here we have a recreation of what, Guy Neal, from Primal Knowledge believes is how the Iceman's primitive back pannier would have looked and functioned.
Through the use of experimental archaeology, we have developed this recreation in form and function. Contained, you'll see what the Iceman carried and how he used this back pack with some potentially unique features.
It is this type of research and experimentation that allows us to deliver this type of skill and knowledge in Primal Knowledge Primitive Skills Classes.
Visit www.Primal-Know... for more.
"Knowledge is the easiest tool to carry."
That's a very good idea and presentation of Ötzis back pack. The story of this man is just an amazing thing to study, and you've helped paint a new image of how he rolled.. I'll bet never in his wildest dreams did he ever imagine the full and final story about his last day out hunting, would be discussed 5,300 years later.
I think experimental archaeology is a great way to get into the minds and hearts of our ancestors. Good job.
Beautiful work Guy. Great practical archaeology.
Hidden gem of RUclips
Excellent video!
Great concept & design. Did you test the gear? 5 mile hike, take it out in rain, determine weight dry & wet. The flexible backpack might be better for flatland vs hills and rough cpuntry. Great vid. Thanks!
I see what you’re getting at and yes there are so many better designs today but it’s still a means to pack your gear in and out with you without a wagon.
Good work. Snow shoe frame? No, too ungainly to walk with being so wide. The thin loop of the branch could also be used against the forehead with a pad like we do with voyaguers packs when canoeing and portaging.
Where are you now this is interesting stuff.
I like your sliding shoulder straps. You say there are no signs of ligatures along the bow of the pack except at attachment point of the twin lower pannier crossbars? Could one crossbar have been located higher on the bow and serve as a shoulder strap attachment. Your suggestion of a rawhide bag containing and weatherproofing the bark cylinders is an elegantly simple idea. Ötzi was a mountain traveler. If he would have had the raw materials, he would likely have done exactly that. Your container also forms a shelf allowing loads to be attached higher on the frame allowing for better balance of the load.
You betcha I’ll be on the lookout for green wood to try making one. I can make the grass cordage and I have some leather for straps…so I’m feeling very experimental!
Great work and interesting ideas. Will look forward to hearing how the sliding arrangement of the straps works under a load in practice.Latest speculation at the Bolzano museum (2018) is that the bent wood is part of a snowshoe. Another change is that his hat is wolf fur, not bear.
Why would people give thumbs down. It was a well made and informative video. When I was growing up in the early 60s we were taught that if you can't say something nice , Keep your big gob shut!
The sound is dreadful.
Excellent, I seen he had a bundle of straps with him that would allow binding to the back panier you recreated. Very informative and great job!
Excellent video. Fascinating 👍
Excellent presentation. Best
I do like the idea of the sliding straps. Our ancestors were clever and intelligent. 5,000 years isn't even a tick in evolutionary terms. They were much like us and we are much like them. Its plausible that some used this idea and others used fixed ties.
very impressive. probably alot closer to the real deal than shawn woods' recreation, which is great by itself.
Excellent post, I think your spot on target, thank you for sharing.
Love the speed metal in the background very subtle
I like your thinking and I sure like your pack idea using materials available to Otzi. In modern times, I think most of us prefer square or rectangular containers for efficient storage. I'm pretty sure, based on other videos that I've watched that, as you rightly stated, his containers were in fact curved. This has me wondering if producing a squared-off set of containers (too avoid wasted space), would have been a bit too difficult a challenge for him.
Seriously? I mean, take a few minutes and think of your hypothesis.
@@S.Clause Please enlighten me then oh wise one.
Using a microphone from the same period
What is the name of the book you are referencing?
As we're talking about an age when you could just buy something to make your life easier and more functional. Everything would have undergone constant adjustment by the iceman as he found better and more efficient ways to do things. His mindset would be solving problems himself with materials he found on his journey.
Very interesting.
Sir your video has very low volume. Very hard to hear.
Bty I had my android phone volume all the way up and still very to hear!
You phone has a lousy amplifier in it. The level is fine here with my 370 Watt surround sound amp. Size matters!
@@1pcfred well I finally heard the video but I had to put it up to my ear.
@@douglasgrant8315 you could get a bluetooth speaker for your phone.
@@1pcfred ill look into that thanks 😊
@@douglasgrant8315 I just saw a really cheap one looked at in a video the other day. It was pretty decent I thought.
Your back pack design idea seems plausible however, I'm thinking that he could permanently install the back pack straps to suit his body. I'm not convinced that he would have adjustable straps. Of course I can't say for sure, just my thoughts. Your model is quite nice. I can see Otzi traveling with something like that. Thank you for your work. Otzi has provided a great contribution of knowledge about how our ancestors lived. DNA shows that my ancestors came across Europe to eventually settle in Ireland, Scotland. I wonder how close they came to Otzi some 5000 years ago. Some of them may still live in the same area. Thanks for your video and sharing your interest in Otzi.
Bronze age actually. He had a bronze axe head.
for sure? i thought it was merely copper.
@@STScott-qo4pw My bad , you are right. It is copper. Although....aside from bashing heads, what it was good for eludes me.
Can you fix the audio?
So my Uncle Otzi was one of the first Europeans to wear a back pack?? wow!! You should of put it on for demonstration!
1. Catalog all items. Including clothing.
2. Extrapolate uses for all items as possible.
3. Create a modern analogue to items.
4. Market on Amazon/Internet
5. $$$$...retire
Great video but the sound is a bit on the low side.
Interesting video but it looks a bit complex to me. Id have thought that a simple skin/hide bag like a large day sack would have done the job with the top folded over to keep everything together and waterproof. Interesting suggestion though and you may well be right, but he certainly wasn’t “primitive” .
Funny , it’s similar to the astronaut backpack used on the moon.
Great hypothesis, but terrible video. Stop hitting the damn bag already . 😁otzi has lots of mysteries to unravel. I personally think your correct on professional hunter. I’ve thought for years now that his shot in the back was a hunting accident. Then he told them leave me here. Because he supposed to have bleed out in about five minutes . And if enemies killed him I think his valuables would be gone, copper axe and arrow shafts. They are hard to make , I make them myself. Just an old guys opinion
Experimental archeology, nice vid.
Just wondering ( I wasn't aware about the backpack) there was an arrowhead found just under his shoulderblade. It seems to me the shoulder straps should be lower so the weight would be devided on his shoulder.
If the construction then was as you build it, the arrow would also penetrated the backstrap..
Anyone??
This construction is not strong enough.If he hunted an Ibex and had to carry it we are talking about
30 to 50 Kilo easily.That thing would not hold that weight.And they were surely clever enough to put
a hip strap to his back pack.
Otzi had a tough life........................ wow. Hard to believe he lived to 45 or so. Lonely and hostile place back then.
One artifact found was not identified. It was a circular piece of cordage with knots tied in it , it also had loose pieces of cordage hanging from it . I believe it was a primitive set of ranger beads and the loose cordage was used as trail markers . Being a hunter gather he most likely was looking for new hunting grounds and needed a way to find his way home . This exploring what led him to his death when he found himself trespassing on another tribes territory.
I find it amazing that 9000 years ago they were this resourceful.
I like it. I don't think, like most, that it was for carrying dead birds. I also really don't think such a valuable thing would be left as a marker. I do know that primitive people today use cordage with knots to represent money in a way, like a debt. Not to say this is my belief. I just thought I'd mention it. I've been thinking about this puzzle, too.
The background music or noise whatever it is is very off-putting I can’t watch it.
Nomadic tribes in Russia use a system like this. But they also sit on them in open tundra to get your rear end up off the permafrost
really little is known about what that backpack would have been like, but if there is ANYTHING we can be sure of, it is that the containers were not designed to go inside anything ... simply because without oxygen they could not fulfill their task of keeping the embers alive. archaeological experimentation cannot forget the basic functions of the elements; it's common sense_this recreation is clearly wrong. No one would make a framed backpack to principally hold their birch boxes that carried possible future fires,,,
Seems like you know about these types of things. Is it certain he transported embers? Didn't he have some kind of ore striker, flint, and birch fungi so he wouldn't need to carry embers?
@@jacobdavis1768 He did carry fire making gear. It seems unlikely that he would carry smoldering embers in a birch bark box. Birch bark is very flammable. I like the pack box/shoulder strap construction, whether they are accurate reconstructions or not.
Very interesting, thank you. Are your circular bark containers made from tulip poplar?
Thank you for sharing, beatiful work, so inspired. Has the performance of the backpack been proven? Cause i wonder if the ember inside the cilindrical birch need oxygen to stay alive, Would It have enough air?
If you’re having trouble hearing him, put your left ear bud in.
I think otzi used a primitive Velcro system.
Check this...when you have time..
So,,, a 5,000 year old Winnebago…
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Good video but your audio is a potato.
Nice! really nice theory
Primal knowledge: thank you very much for this very interesting presentation. You sure gave a lot of good thoughts for the materials found with that man. I hope you’re right about that product. That’s a really good set up and very impressive.
Brilliant presentation!
Increase volume please
AUDIO THUMBS DOWN
Outstanding sir.
New subscriber. I think you are on to something here. Many of the found items support your design. Well done.
The left and right hand twisting of the birch bark might explain why he was in the mountains with an arrow in his back.
Good job
Outstanding video. Excellent historical project.
Great interpretation. I think the two round containers were above each other, though.
Looks very logical
Thank you
Very educational and informative too.
Looks like a portable chair, I wonder if that could be also be designed to sit on it.
Naw it would have to be made of wood to hold and that would make it too heavy to be practical.
Cool! Hard to imagine he would be on a hunting trip without some sort of bed roll though, given that it was a frozen snow cap then too. Unless we assume they didn’t use animal hides like we use blankets and sleeping bags
I suspect he was hunting at a lower elevation and then ran uphill to try and outpace his pursuers. If he had been younger, he probably would have gotten away. He might have headed up to hide in a snow storm.
@@mikefinn and that’s a popular belief and it’s well supported by the arrow in the back, lack of provision for being in such a cold climate, etc. I think if he wanted to spend even the day up there he would’ve had provisions to keep him warm and fed with him.
Thanks for the video and second excavation information.
I like it Guy. Nice video.
Although it lacks evidence of what you are talking about it does make since. I wonder if he made this like you say but for a quick ability to detach from said pack for archery shots or combat ,given all the wounds we've discovered on Otzi . Great mystery on all if this stuff very exciting.
leaving aside the beauty of recreation, there´s evidence that at least one of the birch boxes contained elements in minimal combustion, to use as lighters_ it really make sense to place the birch boxes that carried embers under a lid rather than outside, where they could be kept alive with the oxygen and breeze they needed so they wouldn't go out? intrigue me...
@@cristianalejandrobotozis5351 i am quite sure that fire was very important and he was very experienced with fire. they had so limited varity of materials that i am sure they knew them well.
That was not his backpack that was a piece of his snowshoes come on get with the program
Excellent!
Tank's
Tank's
Please rerecord the sound to stereo.
All we can do is speculate, but great idea of what it could have looked like. Maybe it had just a big quiver like leather sack attached to it somehow as well. That is what my thoughts are on the backpack.
Are you happy with the way you pronounce "pannier"? 😏
I’ve never seen a sliding strap approach like you have on a pack frame. Did you see this feature in any other cultures? The shelf atop a container is viable, but I doubt the box container would have had solid sides, top, and bottom. Too heavy. Narrow slats and thongs would be lighter. Otzie may have carried a load in a bag? Or, more likely, wrapped in a tarp or hide that also served as a shelter. In either case, lashing it to the pack frame is necessary. He may, or may not, have used something like a diamond O hitch?
While your thoughts are a very good start. It just doesn’t look right. I suggest that you take a look at whatever the aborigines use in Australia, and the aborigines on Taiwan, and the Ainus on Hokkaido. And the ubiquitous A frame in Korea.
Basically, what I’m suggesting is for you to go back to the drawing board. Check what the people who are closer to living primitively than you and I are;; ask them what THEY think. DON’t show them your ideas. Show them only the bare bones stuff that you started out with, and ask them what the whole rig might have looked like. Their responses might echo yours? They might not.
Courtesy of Half Vast Flying
Hmm, can’t hear you….
The was cordage found on the backpack, but no evidence at all of any hides being used, nor of any wood compartments. That simply doesn't add up to what he used. My observations of the actual items found with Otzi lead me to believe there is no evidence at all to support your idea of the pack.
+James Ritchie The hide, hair & extra wood strut, were all found on the second archaeological excavation, which took place 9 months after the initial discovery. Due to the fact that the back panner was placed higher on the rock ledge, it had been exposed may times during the 5300 hundred year storage. The leather, and enclosed wood strut had deteriorated and slipped down to the bottom of the ledge. Read about Andreas Lippert's (University of Vienna) second excavation, summer if 1992, where he describes finding a third board, with fur sticking to it, which he interprets as a third cross board for the back panner. This was all found below where the frame was located on the rock ledge.
@@Primal-knowledge Moreover, I would suggest that the final moments after Otzi was shot in the back with an arrow would have been extremely violent. Otzi would have violently flung the pannier away, in order to engage his assailant in close combat. In that setting, it's no wonder that it came apart - not to mention 5,300 years of weather. As you must know, DNA test of bloodstains on Otzi's weapons confirmed the blood came from several people. He led a violent life - perhaps ending in his vengeance killing? We will never know.
@@jamesrussell7760 whoever shot him did not observe his death. they would have taken his tools,
@@jamesrussell7760 the arrow hit mummy guy took was pretty bad. He may not have been in any shape to do much fighting. Could have gone either way. Being as he wasn't stripped my money is on flight over fight. Because iceman certainly lost. No other victims were found at the site either.
@@victorhopper6774 who knows maybe it was suicide? Or maybe he had dirt on Hillary? But then it would have been suicide with two arrows in his back.