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William Noel: Revealing the lost codex of Archimedes
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2012
- www.ted.com How do you read a two-thousand-year-old manuscript that has been erased, cut up, written on and painted over? With a powerful particle accelerator, of course! Ancient books curator William Noel tells the fascinating story behind the Archimedes palimpsest, a Byzantine prayer book containing previously-unknown original writings from ancient Greek mathematician Archimedes and others.
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This is one of the most significant archaeologic finds ever. Absolutely wonderful work.
I'm so glad that there are people out there who care enough about this stuff to spend so long saving it. We really are in the debt of those who work to preserve such precious treasures from our past
Thanks to dudes like this we have medieval fencing manuals and I have a sport I practice daily
Wish all TED's were this good. Great presentation of science.
The last few minutes of this presentation are the most important.
Amazing find and correctly dealt with.
Outstanding presentation! I had the pleasure of visiting the museum and seeing the exhibits in 2011. A memorable event. Excellent Museum besides Archimedes, highly recommended.
This is amazing! I remain speechless! BRAVO & THANK you for ALL!.
This is the kind of awesome talk I like from TED, not stupid personal stories.
This is absolutely mind blowing! What a jewel of a manuscript that is. It is almost as mind blowing as a group of people coming together and working hard for years to provide this invaluable information to the whole world for free. I tip my hat to you and to your foundation!
Sadly we've lost a dear friend, collaborator and pioneer with the death of Will Noel on Monday, 29 April, after he was struck by a van while walking on a sidewalk in Edinburgh on 10 April. His advocacy for free and open cultural heritage data cited in this presentation lives on....
His former fellow sailors are gathering to remember him Friday in Annapolis. We’ll miss him dearly, as I know you will.
My heart is overloaded with gratitude .
Thank you for explaining how you and your colleagues undertook such a complex an important endeavor. Education and data is the Cadillac for Humanity, and what you and your colleagues accomplished is the ultimate restoration.
RIP to this tremendous man. You will be missed dearly by so many.
Prayer books are a dime a dozen, but Archimedes is priceless.
i know there are a lot of people here that, as soon as he said that it was erased and and use to write prayers on it, your blood started to boil.
a combination of words that have lots of meaning, wonderful!
Best TED speech ever.
Wow, that's just so incredible indeed. Awesome work, ingenuity, and excellent use of modern technology. You win, we all win, great job!
this guy deserves a medal
Ο ΑΡΧΙΜΗΔΗΣ ΣΕ ΕΥΧΑΡΙΣΤΕΙ Κε NOEL!
2:00: Leading to Johan Ludwig Heiberg's discovery (1906): Constantin von Tischendorf had noticed the manuscript without understanding what was about (1846), whereas Athanasios Papadopoulos-Kerameus understood there was a mathematical work there (1899).
One thing he forgot to mention, the Archimedes text shows that Archimedes was already developing the Calculus, 1700 years before Newton.
In some parallel world, the Library at Alexandria was not burned, and humans are already reaching the stars.
6:29 "If you process the same two images in a different way you can actually get rid of the prayer book text, and this is terribly important..."
I agree. Civilization will not attain perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest.
Really, we know the Shroud of Jesus pre-existed the C-14 date because of liturgical writings and artwork. Very valuable for many reasons.
As a student studying to become a textual critic of the New Testament, I was completely jaw-dropped by the ingenuity of these people.
This was fantastic.
Erasing parchment manuscripts was common in early monasteries. Parchment, made from animal skin, was expensive & so was often reused. In those days ancient manuscripts were not considered that important & it's a wonder the monk's bothered to recopy them at all (though they did). A good book on the subject is The Swerve How the World became Modern by Stephen Greenblatt. It recounts the rediscovery of Lucretius work Nature of Things in the 15th C and gives a bit of background on this phenomenon.
Writing on palimpsests (previously used parchment) was a common practice. Parchment was (and still is) expensive, and could be scraped almost perfectly clean. The writer would have to have been a reader of Greek (not common in western Europe until the 15th century, even among the educated class) and a mathematician familiar with Arab and Greek math (again, almost unheard of at the time) to recognise the value of the existing text.
so, could we have a link to these data so we can read them by any chanse? thx in advance and thx for the fantastic podcasts of TEDTalks
Personally I don't blame that guy, after all his actions did preserve the text of Archimedes, even if he deliberately wanted to destroy it.
He probably didn't knew any better.
My original comment was referring to the value a math text holds over some prayer text: it is infinitely greater.
In fact it is as great as between
firmly knowing that building will not collapse (because you can calculate the loads and measure it with the equipment) and
just merely hoping it will not collapse.
The "A", "B" and "C" are labels given to individual copies of a book. It's common for ancient books to be labelled that way, or given names based on where they were found, since manuscripts are almost all different to begin with (different layout, different abbreviations, different errors in copying) and eventually wind up with different kinds of damage.
Marvelous.
A true humanitarian...
Really in those very old days around 250 BC, when there was no exposure to science and technology , thinking in such a genius way is great. If he had been there in 19 th or 18th century would have contributed a lot
This guy has a magnificent voice!
Thank you
This is amazing!
It's true that the ancient Athenians introduced many important things, but not all of them. For instance the concept of zero as a number is an Indian invention. And binary arithmetic (which computers are based on) was introduced to Europe by Arabs, who in turn had imported the basic idea from Africa. By the way, is your caps lock key broken?
Promotion of Archimedes, physics, and open source in one video. Win.
Which is one of the thing that sparks hope in humanity in all of us. Even if civilization would fall tomorrow and everything is lost, we would eventually figure out everything again, unlike religion which will be lost forever, and religion zealots would have to invent new religions all over again. Science is eternity and religion is temporary.
It's that institutions should give their information out for free no matter how hard it is to find that information and unrestricted sharing of information.
He just gave a lengthy, single example of what that team did for that one prayer book that contained 3 works from important historical figures. He talked about it's rarity to emphasis his final point.
I hope that clears it up for you :)
but you have to consider that maybe the main reason we at all found them, specially now, when we are capable of 'reading between the lines', is because they where reused by those monks . most of the ancient valuable writings are lost because no one cared to keep them
Loving how they are being so open and sharing this information! Great! Really Great! I just hope there not doctored.
Amazing speech!
The reminds of the short story 'Hellbound Heart' that the movie 'Hellraiser' was based on. In the story there were serveral ways of opening the dimensional door to Hell and summoning Pinhead. One was the puzzlebox in the movie and...
"One such chart was in the vaults of the Vatican, hidden in code in a theological
work unread since the Reformation."
I hope this guy knows what he is doing.
A.The monk was being resourceful. He needed paper, and paper wasn't easy to come by.
B.The text the monk had was itself a copy and not the original, nor was it the only one!! So why not use it. Heck I have an old Excel Textbook I'd cut up in heartbeat, if need be.
C.What better way to preserve a text, than by turning into a holy book!
D.Archimedes is best known for his inventions. The math was less important.
We ought to thank the monk and Mr Noel. No other copy survived. But this one did!
RIP -Bill :(
Absolutely awesome!
Well the prayer book was done over top enlightenment parchments which were found once those books images were processed.
So you have the right point, just the other way around :)
I would agree. Imagine if early cell manufacturers had been sued for violating the patents on the telephone - or cutting into their profits, which would be highly ridiculous and not at all surprising in modern times.
Someone please point to the ENGLISH text of what he says here at 10:04, "Best of all is to win. But if you can't win," etc. IF there are transcriptions online at this guy's site, they are buried in blitheringly confusing jargon.
Notice how the prayers in the book are completely irrelevant to ANYTHING.
Except to the grand architect of all existence. ie God Almighty
How about "the Vatican library should be encouraged to put all it's books online", and we leave the force out of it.
I'm glad they were able to dig through the history of the paper and pull out the original material, I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that ancient scribes used the texts as a way to hide knowledge. Ancients had zero knowledge of the techniques used to pull the old text out.
Brilliant!
Loved the conclusion. RELEASE THE DATA FOR EVERYONE.
Amazing !
It seems really hard to properly convey the significance of things like archimedes' written mathematics to the general public
oshiet kudafrickinsai not the point
涙なしには見れませんでした、じつに素晴らしい。
Three significant scientific manuscripts in one prayer book. My theory is the monk was a time traveler and was trying to save them from being burned as hericy by the church. He came from a parallel world where the Library at Alexandria was not burned... in a TARDIS.
You missed the first and very subtle point. 0:16. There were many copies of Archimedes work (Codex C) at the time the monk in question turned one into a prayer book. No way, this was the only one!
My point is, where are the other copies of codex C? All gone! Why? 2 reasons:
1. Archimedes' math was less important than his inventions
2. The copies were abundant, and treated carelessly.
The glass is half full here. The actions of the monk gave us access to this treasure. Where all others failed.
@ 12.21 what were the two sites he mentioned?
let's raid the vatican
This is a meme now lol
there are miles of catacombs under the vatican that hold some of the worlds greatest relics and lost history
@@Teeveepicksures lets keep it that way
Just amazing
It is ridiculous to say that people need to understand art to like it. Someone may not understand the complexity that goes through it, but it can still be appealing. A good example is in the art of dance. You may not understand how to do a fouetté juté, but you can still have an appeal for it.
Of course, math may be the same, but having an appeal for something doesn't mean that it is needed.
BRAVO!!!! I couldn't agree more
Ouvir o palestrante é muito aflitivo, pois ele está visivelmente ansioso, falando freneticamente. Apesar do conteúdo de sua palestra ser interessantíssimo e muito importante, não é muito saudável ouvi-lo. A plateia se mostra constrangida e oprimida com esse condição emocional do palestrante. Ele certamente não estava preparado psicologicamente para isso.
Fantastic Indeed!
Until another copy of Codex C turns up, no one should be mad at the monk. Whoever had a copy of Codex C in the middle ages let it go to ruin. We only have access to this one copy, because of the actions of the monk.
They should force the Vantican library to put all their books online.
yes/no, it depends on where the funding for the work comes from. I people are producing the work as means of making a living, then the ability to protect their intellectual property - to them - is a neccessity. However, if the people producing the work are e.g. government funded/ a pet project, then they arent depending on the work being payed for to cover costs of time/resources.
He was doing similar mathematical work to Newton's but 1700 years before hand. In what way is that less important? It is revolutionary.
The glass is half full, but not because of the monk, it's because of Dr Noel.
Archimedes hadn't even tackled differential calculus and his method was not a generalized function.
What held calculus back was metaphysics.
dam it i love this channel!
I'm talking about philosophy, which is generally renowned as a higher order of thinking (and I personally hold it above all science). Philosophy can pretty much prove through reason alone that you can't entirely trust science and if we go even further into postmodernism, you can find that there is even a problem with our one track mind which narrows us down to one thing. People who aren't open to "different" ideas are never the ones who make great achievements
Sorry that was kinda a messy reply
Bravo!!! Sharing is an act of love. Thanks god there aren't any laws to control love. Or maybe I'm wrong?
I agree. The monks helped to preserve immensely Greco-Roman literature and civilization.
you comment has bummed me out more than any comment i've ever seen. thanks, pal.
If a math text applies to the physical world, which is temporal, limited, and possessing death, then how is a prayer text, which re-opens communion with God, and a subsequent transcendence of the physical infinitely less valuable?
You might be looking at the talk through a lens. I think he wrapped up the whole idea in the last paragraph of his talk before he walked off stage. Yes that was the content of the talk but the overarching narrative was far deeper and about sharing that information openly... I think.
The one who's wrong about a given enigma still retains some respect for the truth -his own truth made by his own judgment. But the one who does not take a firm position, the agnotic, will never hold FULL respect for the truth. He'll always end up saying that it's not possible to know the full truth of an enigma, no matter how much facts and evidences you give him, he will never take the real responsability of judgment. Never willing to make a Firm Choice. That is why being an agnostic is worse.
"why?"
How could one not be blown away? Learning about how scholars figure out their conclusions prove infinitely more convincing than the simplistic idea of a "received text" that conveys the "original" meaning of an ancient author (= i.e. the bible did not fall from the sky).
Amen brother.
Awesome
and i did. this was brilliant
And best of all, the link isn't in the description.
Why would you put a fresh, new metal clasp on it? 11m.30s
Very truly a good idea..amazing stuff..well, I'll just make a beline for Walters and check it out myself..:)
TedtalksDirector, please lower the soundlevels of the intro and outro to "normal" soundlevels. There is no need at all to have a several decibel louder intro then the rest of the video..
In the 13th century monks caught reading Greek were given the death sentence.
Possession of Greek texts was dangerous, also many stored works were considered blasphemous and were marked for burning or erasure.
False. Monks weren't killed for being caught reading Greek texts. You had to do more than read to get execute...like be a murderer or lead a peasant revolt. The crackdown was only from 1210 to 1255, only in the West, not all Greek texts(Aristotle's Prior Analytics and some of his other works had been available in Western europe from 500AD and were not banned). The vatican had copies of archimedes codex A by 1269 and commissioned copies of archimedes codex B in the 1450s.
The Eastern Churches never banned Aristotle.
RIP Dr. Noel. He was struck by a vehicle and killed earlier this year.
Did he find Archimedes' codex in Heavy's ribcage?
Made me wonder if we would ever see the Vatican‘s library digitized. 😂
Probably not and that’s not about how large their collection is it’s about what texts they Vatican does and doesn’t want public.
Man, my books never come with secret historical texts bound with Elmers Glue!
There is a Documentary about the investigation of Archimedes texts, anybody knows the name of it?
Infinite Secretes (NOVA) PBS
Thanks!!
Im gona learn now the koran, medevil text, archimedes text and have huge debates and interesting conversations with people i meet. im gona dig and find as much as i can. wohooo
the electron just flys away from the page as beta radiation, or it hits another atom inside the page. Anyway that doesnt matter, the important thing is that it got knocked out.
finding a centuries old text is progress? honestly I personally feel like we have progressed beyond Archimedes. Of course if you find string theory in a new Codex D I'll happily eat my shirt.
رجاءا ترجمة للعربية 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Just like hundreds of works of J.S.Bach that were lost, sold merely for their value as paper, after his death, to places like cheese shops who used his manuscripts merely for their value as paper to wrap cheese, the same way newspapers in the UK are used to wrap fish and chips.
But there were no copies, no backups, and those works are gone.
Tremendous
Why?