Looking at Pierre Dorion's Track Record After Being Fired by the Senators
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Well, there will be a new GM in Ottawa, so let's look at Dorion's trades and the team's performance while he was GM.
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The fact that the NHL described the Dadonov situation as a "nonissue" to a guy who invested close to a billion dollars into an NHL team is just wild. Andlauer has every right to be fuming. Also, looking back on it, I don't know how the Hawks got away with pretty much no penalty after the Kyle Beach situation.
NHL just spins a wheel on those things and whatever it lands on they get.
Because they’re the Hawks
Not to mention the NHL itself screwed up by allowing this trade to be finalized, they're shifting all the blame to the senators when they deserve an equal amount
Because this is the real world, not Fantasy Land. Shit happens. The bad guys win sometimes..
Or because the the hawks didn’t break league rules hence the league can’t punish them
This situation is such a mess that it prompted Shannon to bring back the iconic “boy, howdy!”😂
The number of not just bad, but obviously bad trades is amazing.
@@closethockeyfan5284I think it gives Jim Benning’s reign of terror in Vancouver a run for his money, to be honest.
@@LSA30 Ha ha, I was thinking about Benning as he was going thru all the trades of draft picks
OMG... I never even thought about the impact Pierre had on the last 3 Cup champs... Why are you doing this to me THG?!
Andlauer is pissed at the NHL and is calling them out on not informing him of these situations before spending all that money
Fire the GM and then appeal the suspension. That's my prediction.
Those situations would’ve made no difference in the sale.
@@joshciviletti3032 oh 100% they would've brought the value down a bit
Oh no rich guy is pissed. Oh well, hes still a multi millionaire, he'll be fine
@@tyrous1743 Millionaires and billionaires have the same right to be treated fairly as anyone else.
Shannon is so damn good at this that Fridge is calling him for insider info at this point! Shannon is one of those RUclipsrs that deserves to have some legit professional backing at this point.
a genuinely intelligent man with truck loads of integrity. sports networks should be foaming at the mouth for him
@eggsbruhnadict4298 those features are exactly what the big networks don't want 😅😅
Crazy how he managed to put all this information together so fast after the news broke
Prepped the board weeks ago, just in case.
THG is secretly on the NHL payroll😆
@@sst6601He should be!
Shannon's a machine.
Yeah really impressive
If they are considering Chiralli,go the extra step and hire Millbury. He built the early 2000s Senators.
As a Bruins' fan, I support this proposal.
As a Wings fan, I also support this proposal.
As a hockey fan who's riding high on Buffalo's potential, I support this proposal too.
@@danieldosso2455 It has the added benefit of adding some much needed spice to the trade deadline. Because anyone could be on the move, for almost anything.
As an Oilers fan, I also support this proposal
This video changed my opinion on Dorion. I didn't realize he did so many questionable moves. Good job Shannon as always.
Shannon, I think this might be the greatest video you’ve ever made. If I had to show a new hockey fan one video to sum up the last 5 years of hockey, I probably would choose this one. Dorion’s effect on the league is kind of unbelievable, both for good and for bad, and this video really illustrates you’re incredible knowledge of all the moving parts of this league.
For some reason this video hits differently. Well done.
So why is this worth a 1st round pick but the Kyle Beach situation is a slap on the wrist? The NHL has some really weird priorities for some things, and the fact that Andlauer apparently wasn't informed of any of this before buying the team is a huge problem. The dude has every right to be pissed.
Probably cause sens are canadian😂
Spin the NHL's the wheel of justice lol
@MisterCautionwell if the logic we’re using is that there’s no precedent, then nothing would get done ever. If there was ever a time to set a new precedent and an expectation for how to carry out off-ice discipline, it was with the Kyle Beach incident
Vegas absolutely FLEECED the Sens with that Stone trade.
Stone fleeced the senators! Got to get your facts straight. He forced their hand and they basically got what they could. Wasn't like Vegas with some mastermind.
Dorion being fired before smith was not on my bingo card this year lol
Omg please hire Charelli so I can laugh about how he destroys everything Dorion built up 😂😂😂😂
@@trevoravery9270 as an oilers fan that was a low blow 😭😭😭😭😭
If you have time, I'd love a quick summary of the Andlauer press conference. Some of the comments I've seen from him regarding the league have been wild. Appreciate all your hard work as always Shannon, have a great day!
As a Sens fan, I have been wanting Dorion to be replaced for a long time. That being said, I didn't want Chiarelli to replace him.
I'm going to miss Pierre Dorion. The Canucks made three trades with him and they won all three.
Besides the Stone trade, Dorion trading Gustavsson was one of his worse trades IMO. the potential was there Dorion gave up on him too fast after just one bad year.
Today my proudest day as a suffering sens fan.
He had a great season... but Pierre wanted an experienced Starter... and the team willing to trade was the Wild who wanted a Goalie. It was a bad trade. I knew it when it was made, but I saw his reasoning... just doesn't look good now as Talbot didn't do well and Gustavsson is doing great. *Shrug*
You still have DJ Smith behind the bench! They were going nowhere with him… Fast
@@neilsunstrum933 he should of been fired two years ago but here we are. Brady prime years being wasted.
@@YoungZackary96 yup! Players have a best buddy behind the bench not a coach. I hope they bring in Sutter and get this team playing like men instead of boys.
seriously Andlauer should take NHL to court if NHL concealed all this Pinto and Dadonov crap from him
Great video! Couple of notes, I don't think the sens soured on Turris, they were having trouble signing him (probably due to their internal cap). Also, I never really got the sense Stone was interested in resigning.
Good God what a start to the season for Sens fans.
I cannot wait for Pierre's "tell all" book to be released, should be JUICY!
I would purchase a signed hardcover copy of a Pierre Dorion book just to read about how it was to have to deal with Eugene every day.
Pretty sure that he wants another job in the NHL at some time, so the book will have to wait for some time.
How much of this was because of Melnyk is one thing, but this year’s cap botch and a couple of trades (the goalie swap with the Wild and the 2022 Debrincat trade) blowing up in his face are what really doomed him to me.
Another great THG video, thanks for always making interesting content.
I really don't think he was too bad. His biggest mistake was keeping Smith for so long, but he drafted great and built a nice team which is still shaping up. Definitely thankful for him as a Sens fan
About the gus trade. That still haunts me. Talbot was terrible all year for us too. We all knew gus was gonna be good eventually but Pierre gave up on him too early. He considered him our goalie of the future from the brassard trade and he ended up giving him away with nothing to show for it
Well said.
Yeah I remember even at the time wondering what they were thinking? He was still pretty young with loads of potential and Forsberg seemed to be playing well enough. We all found out quickly how awful it really was.
You mentioned Demelo incoming, but not outgoing for only a 3rd at the 2019 deadline I believe it was.... A "rental" deal for Winnipeg, but he ended up resigning for 4 years here at 3.00mil AAV... (Ron Hainsey put in a good word for Winnipeg when he was dealt, and told Demelo it was a great place to raise a family, and with Demelos wife/gf pregnant at the time, it helped convince him to resign here with us...) He's ended up being a very decent partner for Morrissey... Just another defender OTT could have kept or had the pick to acquire...
I've always liked DeMelo. A low-key solid player.
@@RRaquello me too, won't win awards, doesn't score very much or anything, but every team needs Demelos around 3 mil AAV... Not everyone can be McDavid...
As a Ranger Fan. Thanks 🙏🏽 Mr. Dorion.
If he stayed around, he would have also traded Vladdy back to us for a 4th Rounder.
would like to see some 'trade tree' videos from the hockey guy... although its not an original idea, i think THG has great hockey knowledge to make the videos super deep and interesting
There's a trend that goes through most of these trades: not wanting to sign your original drafted player (who wants to stay) and trading him for a replacement, and then the replacement doesn't want to stay, or having to trade an important piece of the team because they don't want to stay whether they were drafted by the team or acquired. Cheapness from the owner combined with mismanagement of the pieces left over is always a recipe for disaster. Doesn't inspire confidence in the organization from a player's perspective. Hopefully Andlauer can change the culture around the club.
As a Sens fan, this feels appropriate. My opinion on Dorion is that under him the front office was good at drafting, generally good at identifying their future core, mostly terrible at pro scouting, poor at trades, and not as professional as you'd like them to be. Typical iffy boss working for a bad owner. Bad owners don't hire the best bosses since they'll want too much money, and they'll leave when the owner does something shitty. To me, Dorion seemed two-faced. But if the Sens end up winning the cup in the next 5 or 6 years then his fingerprints are all over this team.
Given that I don't think he's good at any of the parts of the GM job that are especially important for a contending team, about all I can say is thanks, and good riddance.
I'm impressed with the team he put together. On paper it's going to be something special... as a man... he always rubbed me a bit of the wrong way. Though, with this means DJ is hanging by a thread, which does suck because he has done a great job with the kids and seems to be really loved in the room. But, we'll see tomorrow if he can get a good record for November maybe he'll stick around a bit longer.
That November record will be crucial.
I think looking through the trade returns, it's probably a net loss, but it's not by a wide margin. Contracts on the other hand look pretty good. And the Sens drafting has been decent. They have a really talented young core, the question is are they mentally strong enough? Overall I don't think that's enough to justify firing Dorion, but I'm not a Sens fan so what do I know. Several of the trades are brutal though. The DeBRincat ones stand out (thanks Sens haha) because it looks terrible now but what are you gonna do with a player who just doesn't fit in the team? You have to cut your losses and actually I think it's good management that he made the decision after only 1 season. The Nick Paul, Stone, Gustafsson and obviously Dadonov trades are obviously bad ones though for me, and there's no arguing in favour of any of them. I still on balance don't think that's enough to fire him though....I think more rests on the coaching in terms of making sure players fit a system and want to stay, and of course failing to make the playoffs again
Well DJ Smith was Dorions guy, and he kept him through all of this. So if coaching is really one of the main issues, then that is still on Dorion for not making a change.
16:10 I think you meant But is seen as a 'forward' of the future. Not trying to be rude, you're a content machine and I have tremendous praise for the videos you make.
Long overdue firing. Didn't expect him to last long with a new owner. He was the perfect Robin to Melnyk lol.
Correct me if im wrong but while the talk of Byram playing for Ottawa is valid, that was the result of a conditional pick. They lost Byram but the alternative would've meant losing Tkachuk
Die hard Sens fanatic here ... this move is about 2 years too late. Great video man as always!!
The nhl just put the last nail into that dudes job
Soon as I saw the news 20 mins ago, I was waiting for this video.
I hated the Zibanjad trade too. Brassard was a worse player AND sens also gave up a 2nd pick? so stupid.
110% agreed. The Gustavsson for Talbot trade was the digested kernel on the shit sundae. Kid had one bad year because no defensive structure in front of him, after we had poured vast and rare resources into developing him and he gets shipped for a middling, undrafted 30-something with no upside and no big game experience.
Edit: Worst yet: Cam Talbot didn't even want to be in Ottawa -- which then brought us the DeBrincat situation!
This whole situation destroyed any logic I used to talk myself out of anger at Chicago.
looking at some of players they have had even as far back as chara, it's crazy how much talent just slips through ottawas fingers. zibanejad?
I am starting wonder if it was Melynk's "penny pinching" in the case of Zibanejad.
I didn’t realize how bad Ottawa is at trades… yikes especially Zibanejad and Stone being traded but as a bolts fan I definitely appreciate their help over the years!
NY Islanders had offered Pageau to Ottawa for Pinto (from Long Island) this off season
Sometimes your best trades are the ones you don’t make.
Your whiteboard cramming skills are impressive 👏
Basically he was a great GM for every other team then the team that paid him! 👍 hope DJ goes next! Another mistake in my mind
Jesus H. Christ, I need a stiff drink and it's only 4pm on a Wednesday in November.
Wow, I had no idea that the Sens originally had the pick that became Berggren. During the entire lead up to DeBrincat being traded, we Wings fans were sure that a young player like Berggren would be the price, and it wasn't ideal. So when Yzerman pulled it off without giving up Berggren...
Do a video reviewing Andlauer's presser, it was pretty spicy and he made some good points.
A couple bad trades aside, Pierre honestly did as great of a job as anyone could expect under the extreme handicap that is Eugene Melnyk. Despite Melnyk not being willing to pay jack shit, Pierre still put together a solid young core and set the team up for the future, and now another GM gets to reap the rewards
Some of his worst moves were after Melnyk was dead.
I personally like how he turned around and made up for two of his three big bets (Duchene and DeBrincat) and salvaged first-rounders for each, losing ten spots apiece. DeBrincat had lowered his value by going public that he would not re-sign after failing to score what the Sens had been hoping for, and that the Duchene trade happened at all without it being just for future considerations and a sweetener attached was a minor miracle. We're talking about a guy who was caught on tape disrespecting his coaches on this team after having been called out by the veteran crew of his former team (Inginla and Giguère, guys with padded resumes) for making summer travel plans instead of paying attention in video sessions while the team spiralled out of playoff contention.
For these salvation moves, I say "Bravo Pierre". That said, the writing was on all of the walls and etched in many urinals.
Hoping Ottawa hires Chiarelli just for the memes.
I LOOOVE CHIARELLI
I think THG might have something to say about that. He GM'ed in Boston.
no plz
No, I'm crying too much already.
No thank you
I can almost always count on Shannon's Canadian humour in these videos.
Plenty of Dorion's trades have aged terribly, but I still defend the Brassard trade. Mika was not far enough along in his development for the work load that the 2017 eastern conference final run called for. Brass was a big part of that run, and he was one of the linchpins in the top 6 for it. It's also awesome that Brass returned on a PTO last year and played his 1000th game with the Sens before that horrible injury. Yes the Sens sacrificed a young player who was close to breaking out, but Dorion made the right call for what the team needed at that time.
I still can’t believe Doug Wilson traded an unprotected first to Ottawa. The beginning of many years of pain for sharks fans
Well, it was for Erik Karlsson so it was seen at the time that San Jose would be Stanley Cup contenders for years.
At first if the Sharks went to the finals, Ottawa would get a first round. That year my roommate and I cheered for the sharks to make it.
As I recall, Dorion had the option of letting Colorado have the 2018 or 2019 pick. Dorion chose to draft Tkachuk in 2018. I think that was a smart move, because players like that are hard to find. It could very well be that Dorion didn't think the Sens would be drafting as high in 2019 (he was wrong), so he didn't want to give-up the 4th overall pick in 2018. Should he have traded a 1st round pick at all? Of course not, but I'd take Tkachuk over Byram any day of the weak.
The thing that bothers me about looking back on who got drafted with traded picks is that it makes an assumption that two GMs would draft the exact same player in the exact same spot. This ignores what different groups of scouts think about certain players, what needs the team might be trying to fill, or what preferences/prejudices a GM has for certain types of players (remember when Cole Caufield dropped to 15th because he was "too small"?). It's possible that had Dorion kept the 4th overall pick in 2019, he still would have drafted Thomson (unlikely, but possible).
Wasn't Karlsson trade having to do with the whole Hoffman situation?
Melnyk wouldn't even negotiate with Karlsson, he had no interest in paying him 10m+ per year.
@@petrograd4068 And that's bad? $11.5 million for a defenseman who doesn't play defense all that well is absurd. Karlsson only has two seasons where he was a point-per-game or better.
Dorion’s biggest mistakes is the $5M in dead cap this year. That is 4 self inflicted wounds that has crippled this team.
One also needs to remember that the GM works for the owner not the fans. A lot of Dorion’s trades were cap dump situations to keep payroll at or below the floor. That includes Zbad being shipped out before his contract year.
Pierre McGuire must be happy after being fired by Dorion when Eugene Melnyk died.
Honestly no point in firing Pierre at this point he’s already got everybody locked up, maybe 1-2 years ago but cmon he’s already built the team
It’s surprising DJ Smith wasn’t also fired!
The 2020 2nd for hirvonen was flipped to Toronto and for ottawa the true return was Tyler Kleven at 44th in the JG trade
Dj Smith is next...honestly it should have been him first, that much depth with so little results makes no sense !
DJ Smith can’t be far behind
They'll want their new GM (whoever that is) to be able to assess DJ and his staff and then possibly fire him and bring in their own coaching choice. That said, if the Sens suck in November again then it wouldn't surprise me to see DJ gone and an interim coach put in place.
THAT IS UNLIKELY UNLESS THE INJURIES CONTINUE@@PeterDrake
@@alpearson9158 Why are you shouting?
Dj better win all if November 😂
I am surprised he managed to stick around as long as he did. Guy was on borrowed time as soon as he traded Stone away in my opinion.
Oh boy did andlaur have stuff to say he ripped the nhl a new one
I hope we hire someone like Darche as GM
If Peter Chiarelli becomes the gm expect New Jersey to get Brady T for their fourth line defender
Dorian + Flames = a match made in heaven
he'd trade our 1st and 2nd for John Taveras and lock him up for another 7 years at $10M annually lol.
@@hanslamontagne yup, well said, he is a GM that loves to overpay and this is the end result
Trades good and bad but what I'm the most mad about is how off the board he went for picks sometimes when they thought they had a kind ransom of picks. That Tyler Boucher one could have been a good defensive defensemen for us since like a lot of our young prospects are already not panning out
Pinto suspended 41 games ✅
Lose a 1st, Dorion fired✅
Batherson Implicated in HC 2018 Report....
The position of senator being abolished federally …
The now named Ottawa Politicians or Ottawa Ministers ?
What about Ottawa Governor-general Buttlers ?
Pretty sure that Eugene was pressuring the guy. He probably wanted to cut expenses before selling.
Dorion wasn't a great GM, but he also had to deal with a Harold Ballard type owner in Mr Melnyk. I agree that the new owner might be upset, but why wouldn't he have known that there was an ongoing complaint involving the Golden Knights and Ottawa over the Dadonov trade? If you are spending a billion dollars on something, I would think that your lawyers would ensure due diligence concerning any potential liabilities. A bigger problem for Ottawa is the location of the arena and their smallish fan base. As well, I thought all contracts were filed with the League? Why wouldn't Las Vegas have reviewed Dadonov's contract before making the deal? I also think the penalty is too steep, although I suspect over the next year or so, the Senators and the League will probably compromise on something and lessen the penalty. The Matt Murray deal was really bad.
Good God. He should've been fired 5 years ago, what a mess of trades.
Boy oh boy I 'didn't see that coming at all'!
Ottawa has a bright future. This is when there finding there prime. Prime means, Batten down the hatches!. They are currently 6-7-0. This is a major improvement from the past 3 seasons. Too bad about the Dorion situation however this team is looking better everyday.
I have been a decent Dorion defender for the most part, but looking back on all of this now, if San Jose never actually flamed out and became irrelevant overnight (which let them get Stuzle), the Sens might be down there with the Sharks right now. I think it was definitely time to move on and bring in a new GM.
I think his hands were pretty tied with the DeBrincat trade to Detroit. They could have lost him for nothing, because he didn't seem to have any desire to stay. I'd be curious to see what he had to say when they were exploring bringing him into the org.
Ottawa punishment for gambling and misinformation: 41 game suspension, First round pick, GM Fired
Chicago’s reward for sexual assault cover up and ruining a man’s life: Pocket Change and Connor Bedard
Bettman hates Canadian teams
People need to stop repeating this as if true. If Chicago has a pick taken it would've been year before Bedard. If you want to argue 2 should have been taken fine. However emotions really making people stupid on this point.
That's simply not true considering the hefty fines towards Arizona and New Jersey b4. Don't cherry pick.
Bettman hates all hockey. Except Blackhawks.
CHILDREN IT IS NOT BETTMAN HE IS A LEGAL MOUTHPIECE ONLY THE LEAGUE'S BOARD MAKES ALL THE DECISIONS AND THOSE OWNERS HAVE NO USE FOR CANADIAN TEAMS JUST WANT THE PLAYERS
@@BigHatMattHow is this not reality? Explain
Not the news the Sens fanbase wanted to hear ahead of tonight's game. If Chiarelli does become the new GM, I can expect a lot of Oilers fans and a few Bruins fans talking about Chiarelli's track record of bad trades, bad signings, and whatever else as a warning sign.
Edit: my bad, tomorrow night's game.
I honestly would be stunned if the Sens hire Chiarelli, he would destroy what they have built..the Sens are still in great shape if they get a solid hockey man in there now
As a Rangers Fan, I do love Dorian for giving me my Mika.
and Miller haha
Oh man, Looking at Dorian's Awful Trades in combination with The Drama that has occurred under his Tutelage as GM, makes you wonder how he lasted so long. DJ is Next? Go Sens Go!!!
Thanks THG......for putting it In Perspective.
You RULE!!!
The pic of Dorian you have makes him look like a used car salesman lol
Staios is interim GM and doesn't sound like any hiring of a new GM is imminent
Wow 😅😅😅 can’t believe this happen
Grand slams and strikeouts. He was the Adam Dunn of GMs.
I can’t figure out why Vegas didn’t get any compensation out of this. They were sold an asset that was not as claimed. Would VGK have made the trade if they knew his NTC was fully intact? Doubt it.
They won the cup a year later. I don't think there are very many people lamenting the very little impact keeping Dadonov for a year had on them.
@@Franlef1 I do. The. HL isn’t a charity. When one team is drowning, you hand them an anvil. Look at how VGK have conducted business over their short existence. Do they seem like the nice guy type? They are the epitome of a cutthroat, “it’s just business, nothing personal” organization.
@Bum_Hip At the same time, people around the league and certainly a large portion on NHL fans can view Vegas' whole existence as charity considering how easy they got it compared to prior expansions. The real reason I would think they aren't getting compensated is that it takes 2 to tango. I'm not an expert in how trades work in the NHL, but I highly doubt that there was absolutely nothing Vegas could do to find out that Dadonov didn't want to be traded to Anaheim. They likely showed negligence on their end as well. However, since all they did was mismanage a trade and not withold information like the former sens GM/owner, they aren't getting penalized.
@@Franlef1 none of what you just said has anything to do with my question, or point in general. Watch this video again, and the one by Steve Dangle as well. Learn more about this subject you admit to not being an expert on. Willful ignorance is the worst kind. Good day sir.
@Bum_Hip I watched Steve Dangle's take and I see where he's getting at with the no movement clause being waived according to them so your persepctive makes a bit more sense. I feel like there's something else we don't know if Vegas isn't looking for compensation, since, as you say, they have been very cutthroat since their inception. As a sidenote, next time you discuss with someone, leave the abrasivness at home. I know discussions online can be pretty degenerate, but not everyone is out to get you. Some people like me just like engaging into discussions in order to challenge their own perspective and knowledge, especially when the take is very different to the more general discourse.
wasn't Gerard from Nashville and not Ottawa in that 3 way trade? i could be wrong. i didnt bother to look it up
Yes, and he has been excellent for the Avs.
@TheHockeyGuy oh 100%. Not denying that. Kids a stud. Just felt weird to me for him being brought up a few times. I'm no sens fan. I just kind of felt Dorion was trending up. Lost some trades for sure. But his extensions on the youth look real good. Sure without Ottawa being apart of that 3 way perhaps the avs don't have another stud in Gerard. I get that. Love the content. Look forward to all of it daily.
I'd bet that no other GM in NHL history has helped four other teams win Stanley Cups.
I would've removed him along with Guy Boucher. I thought he botched that coaching change by keeping Guy around way too long. The similar thing happened in Vancouver with Benning keeping Travis Green along for way too long but then at least he was fired right along with him, which makes sense.
What a bombshell
Andleauer is a beast
I look forward to him and Dubas rebuilding the Penguins. Heard it hear first 😉
“……….we’re a team”
Gotta congratulate Ottawa for nearly icing Pittsburgh in the 2017 CF, always gotta remember how Pittsburgh got lucky scathing by a Washington team that outplayed Pittsburgh in every facet of the game during that series.
Another thing to mention is Dorion passed on Chychrun in the draft for Logan Brown
That might be more on Ottawa's scouting department.
I said Dorion should have been fired after acquiring Matt Duchene. He overevaluated his team by saying " This move puts us over the top". What a wild statement to make (and a few other wild statements since then)
Anyone who watched Mika play knew it was a dumb trade.
People love to dunk on PD for the Zibby trade, but if we beat Pens in that game 7 we would have had a great chance at the Cup and no one would have cared about the trade that much. I agree it looks bad now though.
As always, hindsight is 20-20. The right day to fire Dorion was July 18, 2016
Always a legend in my mind for the way he handed debrincat to the wings
Zibenad trade was horrible. That trade changed my favourite team from them to the jets. Just couldn’t stomach all the trades.