I GOOFED! Yes, at one point I asserted that York Minster isn't a cathedral... and it actually is. There are so many minsters to choose from, and I went for the most famous.
It may be a cathedral, but it's also a minster, and many cathedrals were minsters too. I suppose it's just a question of which name stuck for which building.
Yorkshire seems to specialise in confusing minsters -- Leeds Minster (as the Leeds parish church has been designated since 2012) appears not to be a collegiate church.
I - a German native speaker from Austria - used to think a "Dom" is just a particularly large church, whether it is the seat of a bishop or not. I was not aware of the second meaning you mentioned (a "dome"), because I'm not aware of any such buildings in Austria being called a "Dom". However, it explains the German name of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem ("Felsendom"), which I thought was a weird name for a non-Christian structure, but makes perfect sense given the secondary meaning.
Doms are used a lot in American architecture, especially for capital buildings for the country as a whole and for 45 of the state capitals. The reform Jewish congregation in Portland has a dome that covers almost a whole city block
To make the confusion a little bit more confused, there are dioceses that have two cathedrals (or a cathedral and a co-cathedral), for example Gurk-Klagenfurt, Dresden-Meißen, Graz-Seckau or most famous München-Freising. In these dioceses the bishop has two bishop churches ...
i love that in the "previously" bit, your speech was in italics. i just love when people put time and effort into subtitles - especially in 2 languages instead of the usual one - so it made my day even though i am personally not deaf
I’m sure someone’s already pointed this out but a small correction: In Swedish it’s actually ”domkyrka” (with an a, not an e at the end). We also have the word ”katedral” but I’m a bit unsure about the distinction between them. Love your videos by the way! They’re my new go to on youtube.
This channel is somewhat magical: Whenever I think of a topic and start investigating on it, I can almost be sure to find a video about just said topic released on this channel a few days later. And it is, as always, brilliant!
Lieber Andrew, herzlichen Dank! Wunderbar erklärt! Eine kleine Ergänzung dazu, und ich schreibe sie auf deutsch, da ich im Folgenden mit meinem Englisch schnell am Ende wäre. Ein Freund von mir ist Sprachwissenschaftler und hat sich mit der Etymologie von dt. "Dom" befasst. Er kommt zu dem Ergebnis, dass es tatsächlich nicht von lat. "domus" abzuleiten ist, wie allgemein angenommen wird, sondern sprachlich verwandt ist mit dt. "-tum" und engl. "-dom" in Worten wie "Reichtum" und "kingdom". Die Grundbedeutung dieses in germanischen Sprachen verbreiteten Wortstammes ist "Recht, Urteil, Beschluss" und entspricht inhaltlich dem lateinischen "canon", dt. "Regel". Daraus ergibt sich, warum im Deutschen der Begriff "Dom" für Kanoniker- bzw. Kollegiatskirchen üblich wurde. Bei Interesse kann ich Dir gerne ein PDF des Beitrags schicken. Cheers!
@@vHindenburg Wenn man es wirklich genau wissen will, kann ich das Buch von Aloys Butzkamm, "Kirchen in den Blick nehmen", empfehlen. Kenne kein anderes Buch, das einen so gut geschrieben in alles Wissenswerte einführt.
I remember first learning that a cathedral was, in fact, not a large church but the seat of a bishop from a passing comment you made in one of your videos many years ago. Seeing this video was a bit of a throwback for me because of that. In fact, I at first did a bit of a double-take when I saw the upload date of this video!
A little add-on: The Mainzer Dom or Dom zu Mainz has been the seat of the arch bishop of Mainz for over a millennium yet it has still been called a Dom since it’s initial construction in the late 900s (it also burned to the ground at it’s opening and the arch bishop Willigis (who had overseen the first build from start to finish) started the rebuild the next day knowing he’d never see it finished
Brilliant educational piece. If ever you are ever anywhere near Münster, check out the Münster Dom, which is a cathedral usually surrounded by (literally) thousands of bicycles. Greetings from sunny Australia. 😇
Well, Hamburger Dom got it's name from Hamburg Cathedral. In the Middle Ages merchants were alowed to sell their goods inside the cathedral when the weather was bad.
But the Archbishop of Hamburg, Ansgar, fled from the viking's raid in the year 845 (eighthundred-something). The (most likely wooden) church/cathedral was destroyed. His successors resided in Bremen. So the hamburger dom was never a cathedral, because (after Ansgar) never any (catholic) bishop resided in Hamburg. Then reformation happened and then Napoleon and then the dome was torn down and the annual fair was relocated to holy-spirit-square and only recently (1995) a (catholic) bishop was re-established in Hamburg.
The exact definitions of church titles can be rather complicated, as it often mixes colloquial language, former uses keeping the title and the appropriate clerical definition considering the status today. In my region, there are some confusing things (and I‘m only talking about the surface of some of the Catholic Churches). Also, I used to be active in the church choir as a youth and young adult, but have since abandoned ties to any kind of organised religion, so I might be a bit rusty. My region in the archdiocese Munich and Freising. That alone is confusing, but hear me out. Freising is older than Munich, and the archdiocese was once located in Freising. Then, Munich was founded, became more and more important, and the archdiocese moved over. Freising, however, remains the seat of the diocese Freising. So, the Dom zu Freising is technically a cathedral (but not for an archbishop) while the cathedral of the archdiocese is the Frauenkirche in Munich, which basically no one calls cathedral. Then there can be loads of strange things. My hometown has a Münster, it was once run by monks, but the monastery is now a convent and the Münster is technically a normal Pfarrkirche (parish church). History has changes a lot here, however. As at some points some relics of the saint the church is consecrated to were brought there, the church became a minor place of pilgrimage. Keep in mind, I‘m talking of the Münster here. The locals, however, didn‘t like all those strangers to wander around in their parish church, so they built a new smaller parish church right next to it (but not connected to the monastery, therefore no Münster), that became the new parish church while the Münster was used for the few pilgrims. Ironically, the tower of the new church was (at least co-)financed by the town, so while it houses bells it was also dedicated for the official fire lookout (with its own bell, btw) - and the tower is (measured from ground to tip) higher (but less wide) than the minster tower due to some sort of arrogance (the minster tower stands on a bit higher ground, so they seem equal). Later, as the town grew, the church wanted to establish a second parish and built a third church in another part of town (not to mention the small church at the graveyard, which is a proper church and not just a chapel). But the plan didn‘t exactly pan out, and today the Münster is once again the official parish church, the smaller one next door is rarely used at all, some services are done in the never established new parish and from time to time smaller funeral services are held in the graveyard church (but most still take place in the Münster). The parish contains (I think) at least two other small churches in little villages nearby that also have services at some point. All that chaos for a town of (today) around 20‘000 people (with 77% being catholic on paper). Those stories are just meant to show how difficult it can be to deduce the actual status of a church today just by its title, as that might be a historical one that no one (especially not the Catholic Church) want to change, as it often would be considered some sort of downgrade. German can be a chaotic language, especially when history and formerly important and sovereign entities like the Catholic Church are involved (another anecdote in that regard is that in some cities there are house numbers in parts formerly owned and operated by the church that seem strange - while usually a larger complex might get letters to the numbers to n the different houses, like 31a, 31b, etc., one can find fraction numbers like 31 1/3, 40 1/2 and such, which can be awfully confusing and downright impossible to correctly enter into some software).
I grew up near England's smallest city, Wells. Its cathedral is the cathedral church of the Diocese of Bath and Wells. The diocese was originally founded in the 10th century as the Diocese of Wells, but this annoyed the monks at the monasteries in Bath and Glastonbury (my home town). In 1090 the seat of the diocese was moved to Bath Abbey; in 1136 this was changed so that both Bath and Wells were considered the joint seats of the diocese and their chapters jointly elected the bishop, but it was still called the Diocese of Bath. Then in 1197 the Bishop of Bath annexed Glastonbury Abbey, and the seat of the diocese moved there to become the Diocese of Glastonbury. But the monks at Glastonbury rejected the bishop's authority. In 1219 the new bishop renounced his claim to Glastonbury and the diocese reverted to the Diocese of Bath. In 1242 he died, and the monks at Bath elected a bishop and ignored the votes from Wells. The Pope eventually ruled that the bishop should stay in office and be known as the Bishop of Bath and Wells. Then in the 16th century Henry VIII dissolved all the abbeys and Wells became the seat of the Diocese of Bath and Wells.
Very satisfying content. My only complaint would be that Berlin Cathedral (Hedwigskathedrale) used to be quite nice and unusual on the inside, not boring at all. (It was or is being renovated so I don't know about now).
Cool video! One smaller correction: "Dom" is also used for a very big, closed room. For example a big cave can also be called "Dom", although this meaning it is a bit old fashioned.
Wonderful subject! For me is a little bit easier: Kathedral= ka tetra= quadrangular and DOM (uo)= like an egg, like a man/biologic, while the first refers to a way of thinking much more mathematical, precise, measurable, scientific.
A cathedral church contains the cathedra or seat of a bishop. It is normally larger than other churches but doesn’t need to be. A minster church has several priests living within its precincts which it sends to neighbouring churches as required. In York there is a big church which is both a minster and a cathedral.
...und was war jetzt mit dem Kölner Dom, die Kathedrale ohne Kuppel, aber Türmen, einem Domprobst und irgendwo schwirrt da noch ein Bischof rum, der nur Gast im Dom sein darf? So oder so ähnlich.
Eigentümerin des Kölner Doms ist tatsächlich das Domkapitel = das Kollegium der dort tätigen Priester (wörtlich: "Kapitel des Hohen Doms zu Köln"). Entsprechend übt auch das Domkapitel das Hausrecht im Dom aus, nicht der Erzbischof. Dieser hat zwar seinen Thron im Hohen Dom (so der offizielle Name) und insofern ist der Hohe Dom zugleich eine Kathedrale, aber er ist eben zugleich auch ein Dom, da er dem Priesterkollegium gehört, das an ihm tätig ist. Insofern ist die Bezeichnung präzise und korrekt. Das spielte zu Zeiten von Kardinal Meisner übrigens mehrfach eine praktische Rolle, der mit seinem Domkapitel mehrfach in Konflikt geriet, z.B. was die Ausgestaltung durch Glasfenster anbelangte.
I don't know if there is a video in this, but I've recently thought about how the single expression 'Haare wachsen lassen' means both 'growing one's hair out' and 'having your hair removed by waxing' which are complete opposites. Then there's 'Untiefe', meaning both 'very shallow waters' and 'very deep waters'. I'm confused, or in the words of Dr. Nick: 'Inflammable means flammable?!?'
I learned about it because I wondered why we have so many different words and then started using that knowledge to annoy US Americans who call every bigger church a cathedral by correcting them :D Yeah I know, I should find better hobbies
*big smile*: The "Hamburger Dom" in Germany's 2nd biggest City Hamburg - it is an amusement fair held over a month three times each year ! Originally the "Hamburger Dom" fair took place around the old minster-cathedral. As this was broken down in the 19th century it has now a new place close to the famous Reeperbahn-Street at the "Millerntor" - the city's old gate-house to the west.
For me it's kind of interesting how organic language and human culture itself is. The changing of meanings during time and the connection to things in the real world making a mix of colorful shades they are not necessarly clear but giving a direction, that you now in the context still what it have to mean (or sometimes not). Sorry, if there are some linguistic failures, I'm not a native english speaker but I hope I've given the "right direction" for that what I've meant. 😅
To emphasise your point i will say that we (geneticists) use mathematical formulas for calculating genetic distances based on mutation rates. The funny part about these formulas is that they were developed for linguistics (glottochronology to be more precise) to calculate the distances between languages, but they work nicely for genetic mutations because there is no significant differences between mutations of languages and DNA.
Hello, Andrew! At 4:05/4:06 you showed the scandinavian languages - wonderful! - however: the Swedish for "cathedral" (or what we now know as cathedrals with bishoprics) are called domkyrk_a_!
I'm an architect of a 67,000square-foot, $42 Million traditional church building, including a cupola, in St. Marys, Kansas. I often have to teach people the difference between a church building and a cathedral, where a Bishop would sit. I do wish there was a better word in American-English which was a better translation for the Italian "duomo." Minster is a term in America that very few would even know.
It's not "a" Dom, it's THE Dom - it's got a ferris wheel, that's better than any belltower, innit?And people are praying left and right when visiting it: "Holy [excrement], these [insert hot snack or beverage here] cost how much again?!? Sweet Lord Gheesiz!!!" Insofar, the location is named very fittingly: "Heiligengeistfeld" or "Camp Of The Sacred Spirit".
Interestingly, in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, we exclusively use Münster for our big non-cathedral churches, and the word Dom is perceived as a word exclusively used in Germany and a synonym to the “Swiss” Münster. And I have also seen the misnaming on English tourist sites, where the Berner Münster, is sometime called Bern Cathedral, instead of Minster, even though it’s the reformed church of Bern and was a collegial church back in catholic times. And as a historian I have to say, that the established use of the term Domkapitel instead of Kathedralkapitel for a cathedral chapter, doesn’t help the confusion in German.
Andrew, that was interesting, but would you mind me keeping on differentiating just between chapel, small church, medium-sized church, large church, and huge church? However, I think I'll have to re-watch your Berlin video (the full length version).
As an Italian speaker I find quite amusing the fact I never heard "duomi" as a plural of "duomo", while it's technically correct. 😄 Btw, that's also a word entrenched in Lombard culture thanks to many cities - notably Milan - having their own Dom.
I grew up in Hamburg in the 50's, and the very first meaning of the word "Dom" that I learned was for the "Jahrmarkt" (with booths, and rides, etc) that happened on a large field (probably near a church, but hat never entered my consciousness)
Thanks for the etymology! I always knew that cathedrals were any church that was the seat of a bishop. But I never knew that in German (1) the word, „Kathedrale“ existed; and (2) a „Dom“ was not necessarily the seat of a bishop. And I studied German[istik] in college [so, "uni" for all you native English-speakers not in the US]. Also, we don't have things like "minsters" here in the US. So I guess there's no good translation of, „Dom“ into English that an American would understand. And, honestly, even if we did have "minsters" here in the US, Americans would still call them, "cathedrals," because the word sounds more important. And we in the US _love_ misusing words based solely on if they sound important, actual meaning be damned.
Last hollyday we bought Münsterkäse near the Martinsmünster in Clomar, which is.. a collegeal church (Stirftskirche). Very confusing. 🙂Lesson learnd: Don't trust a cathedral that wants to be a minster, it could just be a collegiate church or simply a museum with a lot of old stuff inside.
In Italy a church does not even have to look like a cathedral to be called "duomo". Crespano del Grappa is just a big village, probably not even a town. It contains probably only one parish church, but it is called "duomo".
To add more confusion, the cathedral also exists as a term in architecture. If the central nave of a church with at least three naves is higher than the side aisles, it is called a cathedral. If the roofs are the same height everywhere, one speaks of a hall church.
No, a church (or any building) with a central nave higher than the aisles is a basilica. The confusion there is with the Catholic designations of "major basilica" and "minor basilica", which need not be basilicas in the architectural sense.
@@rewboss Sie haben völlig recht ! Habe Kathedrale und Basilika durcheinandergebracht. Eine Basilika ist ursprünglich einfach ein königlicher Bau, wenn ich das richtig erinnere.
In Polish DOM means a house (one family building) but we also say ‚w moim domu’ (in my house/dom) describing what are the habits of this family. We also use it describing places like nursing home (Dom Spokojnej Starości) or Child Care Home (Dom Dziecka)
What about Münster, the city, and the "Münster Cathedral" or St.-Paulus-Dom? The Catholic Diocese of Münster has its seat there, so I think it's a cathedral, though it might not have been originally. But how did the City acquire the name Münster, and what does the city name mean?
Yes, St Paul's is a cathedral; but as far as I can tell, the city's name "Münster" -- like the word for a minster -- comes from the word for "monastery", as there was a monastery there. By coincidence, though, the first cathedral on the site also served as a collegiate church for the monastery, giving it the function of a minster.
@@rewboss In the late Sixties, I attended the University of Maryland Munich Campus (located in McGraw Kaserne, in South Munich), which was basically a two-year junior college for military and US Govt dependents. I took an art history class and really got entranced by Church architecture. I saw a fair number of German Churches, beginning with the Münchner Dom, the Wieskirche in Steingaden, and the "cathedrals" (maybe yes, maybe no) in Speyer, Regensburg, Cologne and Mainz, among others. All quite unforgettable. So your posts about this subject is a nostalgic reminder of things past for me.
Aber auch wenn Köln und Aachen eine Kathedrale haben. Jeder spricht nur vom Kölner Dom und von Aachener Dom. Kathedrale hab ich da noch nie verwendet gehört. . .
The reason for this name is that the Hamburger Dom is located at the Place were until 1805 the Dome of Hamburg stood until he was demolished. Until 1645 it was the second Cathedral of the Archbishop of Bremen (in the Middle Ages: of the Archbishop of Bremen and Hamburg), then simply the Dome of Hamburg. Greetings from nearby Hamburg.
@rewboss Great video! Now to confuse people further bring in the title "Basilika". Maybe even mention my little charming hometown Ellwangen (Jagst) which has a Basilika that has a direct connection door to a evangelist church. That, I was told, is probably the only such thing in the World. [Also mentioning the river is important cause there's a city at the river Rot named identically :-)]
I would argue that it only really matters to believers of the respective persuasion whether or not a given church is a "true" Cathedral or something else - visitors will look at the architecture and maybe be told a bit of history. The best course for the rest of us is to check out what the people who run the place call their building and try not to read too much into it. The distinctions are blurred now, and will become more so in generations to come. Just one more point, we sometimes use Ger. "Dom" facetiously/colloquially for some church or similar building which stands out for its location, size or architecture, even though it does not officially bear this title and may not be particularly old.
Dear Andrew! I like your channel very much, and hope that you will continue making it many years! But this time you got the spelling of the swedish word at 4:04 a bit wrong. The church of a bishop is called "domkyrka" with an 'a' at the end, not an 'e'!
if you want confusion, look for Paris and its _Hôtel des Invalides_ part of the area is Dôme des Invalides AND Cathédrale Saint-Louis-des-Invalides. the latter is the seat of the diocese of french armed forces
I once heard that the Scandinavian "dom"s were also places of justice, using the word for judgment (modern English doom, Dutch doem). But that might be folk etymology.
No it's true, the common word "dom" means Judgement or verdict. A courthouse is a "Domstol", stol meaning chair, the chair of the "Dommer" the Judge. But a Courthouse is more often called by the more modern, Retsbygning da, or Tinghus no/se, or Byret/Landsret/Højesteret da, from Town court to High court.
"Westminster Abbey" ist die gängige Bezeichnung für die Stiftskirche St. Petrus in Westminster ("Collegiate Church of Saint Peter at Westminster"). Sie wurde ursprünglich als Münster für eine Abtei gebaut, die aber 1539 aufgelöst wurde -- aber daher "West-Minster", und so heißt der Londoner Stadtteil heute noch. Dann diente sie als katholische Kathedrale, bis sie 1559 zu einer Kirche der Anglikanischen Kirche wurde -- und zwar als "Royal Peculiar", d.h. dem Staatsoberhaupt direkt unterstellt, also ohne Bischof und in keiner Diözese.
The Sankt Hedwigskathedrale behind the opera house may look boring at first glance, but in my opinion its crypt is rather fascinating. Plus, if you're there on a sunny day at the right time, you can see the sun reflected of the Fernsehturm (the television tower) in the form of a cross from a vantage point in front of the Sankt Hedwigskathedrale. This phenomenon was called 'Die Rache des Papstes' (The revenge of the pope) because the television tower was built by East-Germany to showcase the feats of communism, but the sun's reflection accidently ended up looking like a christian symbol.
@@rewboss True. Named after Walter Ulbricht, the chairman of the state council of East Germany, who played a key role in the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961.
4:20 - Italian party-pooper here ^^; As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, in Italian there are only a few "levels" the church as a building can be: - Chiesa (church) : Basically any church that has a priest officiating in it. - Parrocchia (parrish) : The church in which the Parroco sits, which is a group of "chiese" in a certain proximity. - Duomo: Simply put, the most important (for any reason, mostly theological or historical ones) church in the city. - Cattedrale: The church where the Vescovo (Bishop) or Arcivescovo (Archbishop) has its seat and officiates the Mass. Can or not be the same as the Duomo: for example, the Duomo in Milan is also the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Milan, while the Duomo in Colorno (near Parma) isn't a Cathedral.
Way more confusing are other instances for churches called "Dom" in German: St Peter's Basilica in Rome for example is called Petersdom but -dome just because of its importance and size ( and ofc because it has a real dome on top). Most people probably wouldn't know it but the official German name is "Basilika St. Peter im Vatikan".
and the main church of Rome is Lateran basilica, not St. Peter. Lateran basilica is even the main church for everything catholic as "mother and head of all churches on earth" de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateranbasilika#/media/Datei:Inschrift_lateranbasilika.jpg _OMNIVM VRBIS ET ORBIS ECCLESIARVM MATER ET CAPVT_ is a posh claim indeed :D
@@rivenoak Indeed, and the Lateran Basilica is even an extraterritorial piece of the Vatican, same as a huge number of other churches and palaces in and around Rome.
Well I have no clue where the Swedish term "domkyrke" comes from. But the Finnish one is (propably) translated from the assumption that it comes from the word for "judgement" which in Swedish is "dom". So the Finnish word "tuomiokirkko" means "judgement church". Similar words completely different origins.
Yes, the Finnish word is the official and common term, but it's a mistranslation. The churches in question have nothing to do with judging or judgment, but it's too late to change it now. 😄 I sort of like the lofty implication of Heavenly judgment, though.
In English "cathedral" is also used for churches which technically are not cathedrals, e.g. in Scotland St Giles Cathedral (Edinburgh), Glasgow Cathedral, Dunblane Cathedral - although the Church of Scotland has no bishops at all.
That's because those churches were at one time cathedrals. For example, St. Giles' (officially the High Kirk of Edinburgh) was made the cathedral church of the Diocese of Edinburgh in 1633. That only lasted about five years, when St Giles' became a presbyterian church again, and the resulting split in the Church of Scotland created the Episcopal Church of Scotland which today has St Mary's as its cathedral church of the Episcopal Diocese of Edinburgh. But the designation "cathedral" remained, at least colloquially, and so Scotland today has several "cathedrals" that are called that because they were at one time cathedrals, even if only for a very brief period of time.
@@rewboss We have the same in Belgium and France. Some churches have been cathedral in the past, and although they are no longer seats of a bishop, they keep their title of cathedral (e.g. Laon, Ieper).
Then what exactly is the Westminster Cathedral and how to correctly translate it into German? Dom, Münster, or Kathedrale? And especially when Westminster is not in the West of London, but rather the exact center...
Westminster Abbey isn't a cathedral (at least, not these days: it was a cathedral once, for a short time) and isn't called that: its full title is the Collegiate Church of Saint Peter at Westminster, and nobody ever calls it "Westminster Cathedral". It is a collegiate church, and a "Royal Peculiar" -- meaning that it doesn't come under the authority of a bishop, but is operated directly by the monarch. As the name "Westminster Abbey" suggests, it was built as a minster for a monastery which was dissolved under Henry VIII. And Westminster actually is to the west of the City of London. In fact, it is a city in its own right, which is governed by the Greater London Authority -- as opposed to the City of London itself, which is a separate entity in its own right and governed by its own Corporation. When Westminster Abbey was built, it was in open countryside outside of the city walls. In Germany, it would definitely be called a "Dom". In fact, nearly all cathedrals in Germany are "Dome", it's just that not all "Dome" are cathedrals.
As far a I know. Westminster Abbey is a Royal peculiar of the established Protestant Church of England i.e. part of the state. Presumably the name Westminster City is derived from the Abbey Minster West of London. The Bishpps seat being St Paul’s Cathedral in the City of London to the East. Westminster Catherdral is the seat of the Roman Catholic Bishop who is also a Cardinal.
I can as a swede confirm that yes, we basically don't have any cathedrals and they are instead known as "domkyrkor" which is a direct translation of "dom". Though we still have bishops.
The largest Church in the City of Berne, Switzerland, is the 'Berner Münster', also called 'Berne Cathedral'. Bern is not catholic, the 'cathedral' is not the seat of a 'reformed' Bishop (as far as I know, I grew up in a methodist congregation) and there never was a monastery there either.... very confusing!
It's interesting that the Munich Cathedral is called the Frauenkirche in English. And the Münchner Dom on its website, apparently. And Wikipedia does the translation you love so much: "Although called "Münchner Dom" (Munich Cathedral) on its website and URL, the church is referred to as "Frauenkirche" by locals." The fascinating part to me about the whole thing is that Freising was supposed to be the big deal and the little monks of München were supposed to stay little. But power politics intervened. So Freising has a lovely cathedral on the hill still, but München has the archbishop. As an engineer, my cathedral equivalent in Munichis the Deutsches Museum.
Stupid question, but based on the knowledge you acquired for this video, how would you translate the term "Bürgerdom" into English? (Bürgerdom = large church [often the size of a cathedral] that is financed, built and maintained by the inhabitants of a city and is based on or in competition with a cathedral to show the prosperity and power of the citizens [examples: St.Lorenz and St.Sebaldus in Nuremberg based on Bamberg Cathedral, St. Lamberti in Münster in competition with the cathedral])
@@KaiHenningsen What do you mean worth? The rank of the church in the hierarchy of the church institution or your answer to my questions? In terms of rank, the parish church is the lowest and most general type of church. Regarding your answer: I already know that Lamberti and the other two are parish churches and what that means, BUT the answer shows that users are also willing to help each other and I'm still grateful to you. Unfortunately, the answer to the question of what is a suitable translation for the principle "Bürgerdom" remains open.
Don't confuse the Hamburger Dom either. Most people mention ist, are speaking of the fair at the Heiligengeistfeld, not of the actual St. Marien-Dom. Although, the fair had first started at the old Dom in the 11th century. So, the name kind of makes sense.
There was indeed a cathedral college in the 15th century - but since the Reformation, the respective sovereign was then the supreme bishop of the church. Most recently, the German Emperor was the supreme Protestant bishop, so that the designation Berlin Cathedral was correct at least until 1918
No, the prussian king (not in his role as german emperor) was head of the protestant church in Prussia. But he was not a bishop. It is similar like the situation in the UK: King Charles is (like his predecessors) "supreme head" of the Church of England, but of course he is not a bishop.
9:08 But according to you, that cathedral actually is a „Dom“. 😉 Listening to your explanation makes me wonder what the Wetzlarer Dom actually is? Is it a minster or collegiate church? It‘s sitting in the diocese of Limburg, which has it‘s own Dom. So the bishop of Limburg is supervising two domes. But why are we calling the Cologne cathedral Dom when it‘s obviously a cathedral that looks like a minster. And is anybody in Germany using Kathedrale for any Dom? 🤔 I honestly can say, thank you for the clarification. I‘m now more confused than before. 😉
As I explained in the video, most cathedrals are also called "Dom", and I gave the example of the Kölner Dom as a "Dom" which is also a "Kathedrale". So the Limburger Dom is the cathedral church of the diocese of Limburg; that diocese includes the Wetzlarer Dom wand the Kaiserdom St. Bartholomäus in Frankfurt, which are both (or used to be) "Stiftskirchen", i.e. collegiate churches.
Now even as a native German speaker, that's been very interesting and I've learned quite a lot. But now I'm interested in another thing: is there any difference between a Basilika and a Kathedrale/Dom?
Well, there can be: a basilica is a special architectual type of building, originating in the latter Roman Empire. A higher nave (in case of a church mostly stretching from west to east) is flanked by two (or more) lower aisles and rounded up by at least one apsis. So, for example: the Freiburger Münster or the Chester Cathedral are Basilicas whilst the Berliner Dom or the Liverpool Cathedral aren´t. There is however the title of a "Basilica Minor" which is given to some important catholic churches, but they don´t nesseccarily have to be basilicas in technical terms. Und jetzt nochmal auf dem auch mir etwas nativeren Deutsch: Die Basilika ist eine spezielle Bauform von Gebäude. Es müssen nicht umbedingt Kirchen sein, wurde diese Bauform ursprünglich für öffentliche Gebäude im Römischen Reich verwendet, welche allerdings zum Teil noch zu Römerzeiten in Kirchen umgewandelt wurden. Charakteristisch für eine Basilika ist, dass diese über ein höheres Mittelschiff verfügt (im Falle einer Kirche in der Regel von West nach Ost ausgerichtet), welches von mindestens einem niedrigeren Seitenschiff pro Längsseite flankiert wird. An mindestens einer Stirnseite befindet sich eine Apsis, diese kann kreisrund (typisch für romanische Bauten) oder auch eckig (typisch für die Gotik) ausgeführt sein. Im Falle einer Kirche beherbergt diese meist den Chorraum.
@@42exabyte17 Bei den Katholiken ist (päpstliche) Basilika (minor) ein Titel, der bedeutenden Kirchen, Kathedralen, Domen und/oder Münstern verliehen wird. In Deutschland gibts davon laut Wikipedia 78 „zertifizierte“ Basiliken.
So since we‘re being pedantic here: around 2:38 you call the church where the protestant bishop of Berlin sits “St. Mary’s Church”, but surely protestants don’t believe in saints and so translating Marienkirche with St. Mary is wrong. Isn’t it?
Ok, but what then is a basilica? I'm German and I live in a medium sized city (Rheine/80k population). We have many churches, but only one Basilika which is massive, the St.-Antonius-Basilika (102.5 metre)
Im Falle der St.-Antonius-Basilika bezieht sich die Bezeichnung auf die Bauform und damit auf die ursprüngliche Bedeutung der "Basilika" in der Kirchbauarchitktur: eine dreischiffige Kirche mit zwei Querschiffen, zwei Vierungstürmen und zwei Apsiden - ein geradezu klassischer Grundriss für eine romanische (bzw. - im Falle von St. Antonius: neoromanische) Basilika.
A lot of misconceptions in that 'explenation' of colegiates but lets let it slide Funfuct, in poland main church in the city is caled Fara (Kościół Farny -Pfarrekirche) - from german Pfarre meaning parish i think
Interesting video. Makes me question why the „Würzburger Dom“ is officially called Dom even though it has a bishop. And since it’s one of the largest churches of its kind one could assume it would therefore be called cathedral. 🤔
The Pro-Cathedral in Dublin is extra fun. It is the seat of a bishop, but the Catholic Church nonetheless refuse to call it a cathedral because they still claim Christchurch Cathedral as theirs. (It was taken from them and given to Anglican Church of Ireland in the wake of Henry VIII.)
As far as I can tell, the Bremer Dom - I'm from Bremen - doesn't have a dome. Aaah, I love the sillyness that is German. Questions I've never asked myself. I just accepted any "Dom" as "Dom" because of the name. But that was very interesting.
In modern German, "Münster" and "Dom" are nearly synonymous, with "Münster" more common in the north and "Dom" more common in the south. But as I explain in the video, cathedrals can also be described as "Dome". Almost every cathedral is a "Dom" or a "Münster", but not every "Dom" or "Münster" is a cathedral. I'm not sure why it's not generally called a "Kathedrale" in German when it most definitely is a cathedral, but there was a period in its history when Strasbourg broke away from the bishop and the church became Protestant for a short time, so maybe it stems from that.
I GOOFED!
Yes, at one point I asserted that York Minster isn't a cathedral... and it actually is. There are so many minsters to choose from, and I went for the most famous.
It may be a cathedral, but it's also a minster, and many cathedrals were minsters too. I suppose it's just a question of which name stuck for which building.
Yorkshire seems to specialise in confusing minsters -- Leeds Minster (as the Leeds parish church has been designated since 2012) appears not to be a collegiate church.
Da wollen wir einmal die Kirche im Dorf lassen!
@@get-the-joke Yeah well, I live in Münster and we have a Dom. Even a Domplatz next to it. And that Dom ... is the local cathedral. Confused yet?
The Freiburger Münster is a Cathedral = the Münster was built in the late Middle Ages and became the Seat of an Roman-Catholic Archbishop in 1821.
I - a German native speaker from Austria - used to think a "Dom" is just a particularly large church, whether it is the seat of a bishop or not. I was not aware of the second meaning you mentioned (a "dome"), because I'm not aware of any such buildings in Austria being called a "Dom". However, it explains the German name of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem ("Felsendom"), which I thought was a weird name for a non-Christian structure, but makes perfect sense given the secondary meaning.
Doms are used a lot in American architecture, especially for capital buildings for the country as a whole and for 45 of the state capitals. The reform Jewish congregation in Portland has a dome that covers almost a whole city block
Indeed.
To make the confusion a little bit more confused, there are dioceses that have two cathedrals (or a cathedral and a co-cathedral), for example Gurk-Klagenfurt, Dresden-Meißen, Graz-Seckau or most famous München-Freising. In these dioceses the bishop has two bishop churches ...
The Felsendom was built as a eastern church. Hence the octagonal shape.
@@1116leon The Dome of the Rock has never been an orthodox church.
i love that in the "previously" bit, your speech was in italics. i just love when people put time and effort into subtitles - especially in 2 languages instead of the usual one - so it made my day even though i am personally not deaf
I’m sure someone’s already pointed this out but a small correction:
In Swedish it’s actually ”domkyrka” (with an a, not an e at the end). We also have the word ”katedral” but I’m a bit unsure about the distinction between them.
Love your videos by the way! They’re my new go to on youtube.
This channel is somewhat magical:
Whenever I think of a topic and start investigating on it, I can almost be sure to find a video about just said topic released on this channel a few days later.
And it is, as always, brilliant!
Lieber Andrew, herzlichen Dank! Wunderbar erklärt! Eine kleine Ergänzung dazu, und ich schreibe sie auf deutsch, da ich im Folgenden mit meinem Englisch schnell am Ende wäre. Ein Freund von mir ist Sprachwissenschaftler und hat sich mit der Etymologie von dt. "Dom" befasst. Er kommt zu dem Ergebnis, dass es tatsächlich nicht von lat. "domus" abzuleiten ist, wie allgemein angenommen wird, sondern sprachlich verwandt ist mit dt. "-tum" und engl. "-dom" in Worten wie "Reichtum" und "kingdom". Die Grundbedeutung dieses in germanischen Sprachen verbreiteten Wortstammes ist "Recht, Urteil, Beschluss" und entspricht inhaltlich dem lateinischen "canon", dt. "Regel". Daraus ergibt sich, warum im Deutschen der Begriff "Dom" für Kanoniker- bzw. Kollegiatskirchen üblich wurde. Bei Interesse kann ich Dir gerne ein PDF des Beitrags schicken. Cheers!
That's cool! And makes sense.
Jetzt darf man sich dann noch durchwühlen , was ein Münster, Kapelle , Sakristei, Kloster, Abtei oder Basilica ist.
@@vHindenburg Wenn man es wirklich genau wissen will, kann ich das Buch von Aloys Butzkamm, "Kirchen in den Blick nehmen", empfehlen. Kenne kein anderes Buch, das einen so gut geschrieben in alles Wissenswerte einführt.
I remember first learning that a cathedral was, in fact, not a large church but the seat of a bishop from a passing comment you made in one of your videos many years ago. Seeing this video was a bit of a throwback for me because of that. In fact, I at first did a bit of a double-take when I saw the upload date of this video!
I can't believe you have put so much time into this.
I can't believe I appreciated it.
A little add-on:
The Mainzer Dom or Dom zu Mainz has been the seat of the arch bishop of Mainz for over a millennium yet it has still been called a Dom since it’s initial construction in the late 900s (it also burned to the ground at it’s opening and the arch bishop Willigis (who had overseen the first build from start to finish) started the rebuild the next day knowing he’d never see it finished
Same with the Dom zu Magdeburg.
Fascinating. Great video, as usual.
Brilliant educational piece. If ever you are ever anywhere near Münster, check out the Münster Dom, which is a cathedral usually surrounded by (literally) thousands of bicycles. Greetings from sunny Australia. 😇
I really like the tone of the lighting in this video. Very pleasing to the eye!
I learn so much not only from the video, but also the comments, thanks everyone!
Very informative. Looking forward to the sequel on the Hamburger Dom.
Well, Hamburger Dom got it's name from Hamburg Cathedral. In the Middle Ages merchants were alowed to sell their goods inside the cathedral when the weather was bad.
But the Archbishop of Hamburg, Ansgar, fled from the viking's raid in the year 845 (eighthundred-something). The (most likely wooden) church/cathedral was destroyed. His successors resided in Bremen. So the hamburger dom was never a cathedral, because (after Ansgar) never any (catholic) bishop resided in Hamburg.
Then reformation happened and then Napoleon and then the dome was torn down and the annual fair was relocated to holy-spirit-square and only recently (1995) a (catholic) bishop was re-established in Hamburg.
The exact definitions of church titles can be rather complicated, as it often mixes colloquial language, former uses keeping the title and the appropriate clerical definition considering the status today. In my region, there are some confusing things (and I‘m only talking about the surface of some of the Catholic Churches). Also, I used to be active in the church choir as a youth and young adult, but have since abandoned ties to any kind of organised religion, so I might be a bit rusty.
My region in the archdiocese Munich and Freising. That alone is confusing, but hear me out. Freising is older than Munich, and the archdiocese was once located in Freising. Then, Munich was founded, became more and more important, and the archdiocese moved over. Freising, however, remains the seat of the diocese Freising. So, the Dom zu Freising is technically a cathedral (but not for an archbishop) while the cathedral of the archdiocese is the Frauenkirche in Munich, which basically no one calls cathedral. Then there can be loads of strange things. My hometown has a Münster, it was once run by monks, but the monastery is now a convent and the Münster is technically a normal Pfarrkirche (parish church). History has changes a lot here, however. As at some points some relics of the saint the church is consecrated to were brought there, the church became a minor place of pilgrimage. Keep in mind, I‘m talking of the Münster here. The locals, however, didn‘t like all those strangers to wander around in their parish church, so they built a new smaller parish church right next to it (but not connected to the monastery, therefore no Münster), that became the new parish church while the Münster was used for the few pilgrims. Ironically, the tower of the new church was (at least co-)financed by the town, so while it houses bells it was also dedicated for the official fire lookout (with its own bell, btw) - and the tower is (measured from ground to tip) higher (but less wide) than the minster tower due to some sort of arrogance (the minster tower stands on a bit higher ground, so they seem equal). Later, as the town grew, the church wanted to establish a second parish and built a third church in another part of town (not to mention the small church at the graveyard, which is a proper church and not just a chapel). But the plan didn‘t exactly pan out, and today the Münster is once again the official parish church, the smaller one next door is rarely used at all, some services are done in the never established new parish and from time to time smaller funeral services are held in the graveyard church (but most still take place in the Münster). The parish contains (I think) at least two other small churches in little villages nearby that also have services at some point. All that chaos for a town of (today) around 20‘000 people (with 77% being catholic on paper).
Those stories are just meant to show how difficult it can be to deduce the actual status of a church today just by its title, as that might be a historical one that no one (especially not the Catholic Church) want to change, as it often would be considered some sort of downgrade.
German can be a chaotic language, especially when history and formerly important and sovereign entities like the Catholic Church are involved (another anecdote in that regard is that in some cities there are house numbers in parts formerly owned and operated by the church that seem strange - while usually a larger complex might get letters to the numbers to n the different houses, like 31a, 31b, etc., one can find fraction numbers like 31 1/3, 40 1/2 and such, which can be awfully confusing and downright impossible to correctly enter into some software).
I grew up near England's smallest city, Wells. Its cathedral is the cathedral church of the Diocese of Bath and Wells.
The diocese was originally founded in the 10th century as the Diocese of Wells, but this annoyed the monks at the monasteries in Bath and Glastonbury (my home town). In 1090 the seat of the diocese was moved to Bath Abbey; in 1136 this was changed so that both Bath and Wells were considered the joint seats of the diocese and their chapters jointly elected the bishop, but it was still called the Diocese of Bath. Then in 1197 the Bishop of Bath annexed Glastonbury Abbey, and the seat of the diocese moved there to become the Diocese of Glastonbury. But the monks at Glastonbury rejected the bishop's authority. In 1219 the new bishop renounced his claim to Glastonbury and the diocese reverted to the Diocese of Bath. In 1242 he died, and the monks at Bath elected a bishop and ignored the votes from Wells. The Pope eventually ruled that the bishop should stay in office and be known as the Bishop of Bath and Wells. Then in the 16th century Henry VIII dissolved all the abbeys and Wells became the seat of the Diocese of Bath and Wells.
I love a good dose of well-versed-pedantry in the morning. Thank you very much!
Very satisfying content. My only complaint would be that Berlin Cathedral (Hedwigskathedrale) used to be quite nice and unusual on the inside, not boring at all. (It was or is being renovated so I don't know about now).
Cool video!
One smaller correction: "Dom" is also used for a very big, closed room. For example a big cave can also be called "Dom", although this meaning it is a bit old fashioned.
Wonderful subject! For me is a little bit easier: Kathedral= ka tetra= quadrangular and DOM (uo)= like an egg, like a man/biologic, while the first refers to a way of thinking much more mathematical, precise, measurable, scientific.
A cathedral church contains the cathedra or seat of a bishop. It is normally larger than other churches but doesn’t need to be.
A minster church has several priests living within its precincts which it sends to neighbouring churches as required.
In York there is a big church which is both a minster and a cathedral.
I really like this new camera angle with this faint RGB light in the background. I can't say why exactly, but for me, it's a quality improvement.
Well done Rewboss!
...und was war jetzt mit dem Kölner Dom, die Kathedrale ohne Kuppel, aber Türmen, einem Domprobst und irgendwo schwirrt da noch ein Bischof rum, der nur Gast im Dom sein darf? So oder so ähnlich.
Eigentümerin des Kölner Doms ist tatsächlich das Domkapitel = das Kollegium der dort tätigen Priester (wörtlich: "Kapitel des Hohen Doms zu Köln"). Entsprechend übt auch das Domkapitel das Hausrecht im Dom aus, nicht der Erzbischof. Dieser hat zwar seinen Thron im Hohen Dom (so der offizielle Name) und insofern ist der Hohe Dom zugleich eine Kathedrale, aber er ist eben zugleich auch ein Dom, da er dem Priesterkollegium gehört, das an ihm tätig ist. Insofern ist die Bezeichnung präzise und korrekt. Das spielte zu Zeiten von Kardinal Meisner übrigens mehrfach eine praktische Rolle, der mit seinem Domkapitel mehrfach in Konflikt geriet, z.B. was die Ausgestaltung durch Glasfenster anbelangte.
I don't know if there is a video in this, but I've recently thought about how the single expression 'Haare wachsen lassen' means both 'growing one's hair out' and 'having your hair removed by waxing' which are complete opposites. Then there's 'Untiefe', meaning both 'very shallow waters' and 'very deep waters'. I'm confused, or in the words of Dr. Nick: 'Inflammable means flammable?!?'
Entertaining and informative. Thank you!
Totally fascinating, your explanation was amazing.
Well done! Very informative & as a Church historian, I detected no errors. LOL!
Thank you for explaining! I'm German and have to admit that I never knew the difference between Dom and Kathedrale.
I learned about it because I wondered why we have so many different words and then started using that knowledge to annoy US Americans who call every bigger church a cathedral by correcting them :D
Yeah I know, I should find better hobbies
@@fusssel7178 😆😆😆
Very impressive. Never knew any of this.🙄 That is why RUclips is so educational! 👍
*big smile*: The "Hamburger Dom" in Germany's 2nd biggest City Hamburg
- it is an amusement fair held over a month three times each year !
Originally the "Hamburger Dom" fair took place around the old minster-cathedral.
As this was broken down in the 19th century it has now a new place close to the famous Reeperbahn-Street at the "Millerntor" - the city's old gate-house to the west.
For me it's kind of interesting how organic language and human culture itself is. The changing of meanings during time and the connection to things in the real world making a mix of colorful shades they are not necessarly clear but giving a direction, that you now in the context still what it have to mean (or sometimes not).
Sorry, if there are some linguistic failures, I'm not a native english speaker but I hope I've given the "right direction" for that what I've meant. 😅
To emphasise your point i will say that we (geneticists) use mathematical formulas for calculating genetic distances based on mutation rates. The funny part about these formulas is that they were developed for linguistics (glottochronology to be more precise) to calculate the distances between languages, but they work nicely for genetic mutations because there is no significant differences between mutations of languages and DNA.
Hello, Andrew!
At 4:05/4:06 you showed the scandinavian languages - wonderful! - however: the Swedish for "cathedral" (or what we now know as cathedrals with bishoprics) are called domkyrk_a_!
I'm an architect of a 67,000square-foot, $42 Million traditional church building, including a cupola, in St. Marys, Kansas. I often have to teach people the difference between a church building and a cathedral, where a Bishop would sit. I do wish there was a better word in American-English which was a better translation for the Italian "duomo." Minster is a term in America that very few would even know.
If you want to enter a new rabbit hole, the freiburg minster is interesting and confusing.
Das ist das beste Video, was du je gemacht hast!
This clarifies a few things....now could you explain why the fair in Hamburg is called a Dom?
Because it began with a market that, when the weather was bad, was held inside the church of that name until it was demolished in 1804.
"That would be an ecumenical matter..."
It's not "a" Dom, it's THE Dom - it's got a ferris wheel, that's better than any belltower, innit?And people are praying left and right when visiting it: "Holy [excrement], these [insert hot snack or beverage here] cost how much again?!? Sweet Lord Gheesiz!!!" Insofar, the location is named very fittingly: "Heiligengeistfeld" or "Camp Of The Sacred Spirit".
As a German, I am now less confused than I was before. Danke schön! 🙂
Interestingly, in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, we exclusively use Münster for our big non-cathedral churches, and the word Dom is perceived as a word exclusively used in Germany and a synonym to the “Swiss” Münster. And I have also seen the misnaming on English tourist sites, where the Berner Münster, is sometime called Bern Cathedral, instead of Minster, even though it’s the reformed church of Bern and was a collegial church back in catholic times.
And as a historian I have to say, that the established use of the term Domkapitel instead of Kathedralkapitel for a cathedral chapter, doesn’t help the confusion in German.
Andrew, that was interesting, but would you mind me keeping on differentiating just between chapel, small church, medium-sized church, large church, and huge church? However, I think I'll have to re-watch your Berlin video (the full length version).
I like the Italian attitude best :-). But your research work is appreciated, and I have learned something.
As an Italian speaker I find quite amusing the fact I never heard "duomi" as a plural of "duomo", while it's technically correct. 😄
Btw, that's also a word entrenched in Lombard culture thanks to many cities - notably Milan - having their own Dom.
If I'm not mistaken, the name "Duomo" in Italy is traditionally reserved for the largest church in a city.
@@tic-tacdrin-drinn1505 Yes, also in Austria as far as I know
I grew up in Hamburg in the 50's, and the very first meaning of the word "Dom" that I learned was for the "Jahrmarkt" (with booths, and rides, etc) that happened on a large field (probably near a church, but hat never entered my consciousness)
In Danish, a domkirke IS the seat of a bishop.
Thanks for the etymology!
I always knew that cathedrals were any church that was the seat of a bishop. But I never knew that in German (1) the word, „Kathedrale“ existed; and (2) a „Dom“ was not necessarily the seat of a bishop. And I studied German[istik] in college [so, "uni" for all you native English-speakers not in the US].
Also, we don't have things like "minsters" here in the US. So I guess there's no good translation of, „Dom“ into English that an American would understand. And, honestly, even if we did have "minsters" here in the US, Americans would still call them, "cathedrals," because the word sounds more important. And we in the US _love_ misusing words based solely on if they sound important, actual meaning be damned.
Actual meaning be dom-ed!
@@dlevi67 *slow clapping noises*
It's told with such refreshing enthusiasm that I've completely forgotten that I don't want anything to do with churches and church buildings
Last hollyday we bought Münsterkäse near the Martinsmünster in Clomar, which is.. a collegeal church (Stirftskirche). Very confusing. 🙂Lesson learnd: Don't trust a cathedral that wants to be a minster, it could just be a collegiate church or simply a museum with a lot of old stuff inside.
*Collegiate church (Stiftskirche)
What's inside the domes next to the German and French church-thedrals?
Im deutschen Dom ein Geschichtsmuseum der deutschen Geschichte und im französischen Dom das Hugenotten-Museum
In Italy a church does not even have to look like a cathedral to be called "duomo". Crespano del Grappa is just a big village, probably not even a town. It contains probably only one parish church, but it is called "duomo".
Superb. Thanks for explaining. Seems like this could be the basis of several questions for QI. (British "quiz" show).
Könntest du das bitte noch einmal wiederholen?
To add more confusion, the cathedral also exists as a term in architecture. If the central nave of a church with at least three naves is higher than the side aisles, it is called a cathedral. If the roofs are the same height everywhere, one speaks of a hall church.
No, a church (or any building) with a central nave higher than the aisles is a basilica. The confusion there is with the Catholic designations of "major basilica" and "minor basilica", which need not be basilicas in the architectural sense.
@@rewboss Sie haben völlig recht ! Habe Kathedrale und Basilika durcheinandergebracht. Eine Basilika ist ursprünglich einfach ein königlicher Bau, wenn ich das richtig erinnere.
Now the question would be why is this distinction important to use despite the fact that it is interesting what different words mean?
I'm sure York Minster is also a cathedral? Isn't it the seat of the Archbishop of York?
Yes, I've just this minute pinned a comment to that effect. I'm going to blame New Year Brain Fog.
"Domus" goes back even further, because in Polish, Russian and a lot of other Slavic languages "dom" is the normal word for "house"
Not really, in croatian at least, dom means home, not a house, a place for the family be it a house, flat or something else.
That is correct, it goes back to proto indo European *dṓm, which means home or house, from root *dem- (to build). So it's more than 6000 years old
In Polish DOM means a house (one family building) but we also say ‚w moim domu’ (in my house/dom) describing what are the habits of this family. We also use it describing places like nursing home (Dom Spokojnej Starości) or Child Care Home (Dom Dziecka)
0:30 rewboss warning me of a good time
What about Münster, the city, and the "Münster Cathedral" or St.-Paulus-Dom? The Catholic Diocese of Münster has its seat there, so I think it's a cathedral, though it might not have been originally. But how did the City acquire the name Münster, and what does the city name mean?
Yes, St Paul's is a cathedral; but as far as I can tell, the city's name "Münster" -- like the word for a minster -- comes from the word for "monastery", as there was a monastery there. By coincidence, though, the first cathedral on the site also served as a collegiate church for the monastery, giving it the function of a minster.
@@rewboss In the late Sixties, I attended the University of Maryland Munich Campus (located in McGraw Kaserne, in South Munich), which was basically a two-year junior college for military and US Govt dependents. I took an art history class and really got entranced by Church architecture. I saw a fair number of German Churches, beginning with the Münchner Dom, the Wieskirche in Steingaden, and the "cathedrals" (maybe yes, maybe no) in Speyer, Regensburg, Cologne and Mainz, among others. All quite unforgettable. So your posts about this subject is a nostalgic reminder of things past for me.
Doesn't Dom also refer to certain architectural features? The classic shape with a tall tower?
No!
Aber auch wenn Köln und Aachen eine Kathedrale haben. Jeder spricht nur vom Kölner Dom und von Aachener Dom. Kathedrale hab ich da noch nie verwendet gehört. . .
You forgot to mention the "Hamburger Dom". 😉
The only one that's actually fun.
But which one? The one that is not always or the one that isn't at all (anymore)? 😃
The reason for this name is that the Hamburger Dom is located at the Place were until 1805 the Dome of Hamburg stood until he was demolished. Until 1645 it was the second Cathedral of the Archbishop of Bremen (in the Middle Ages: of the Archbishop of Bremen and Hamburg), then simply the Dome of Hamburg.
Greetings from nearby Hamburg.
@rewboss Great video! Now to confuse people further bring in the title "Basilika". Maybe even mention my little charming hometown Ellwangen (Jagst) which has a Basilika that has a direct connection door to a evangelist church. That, I was told, is probably the only such thing in the World.
[Also mentioning the river is important cause there's a city at the river Rot named identically :-)]
I would argue that it only really matters to believers of the respective persuasion whether or not a given church is a "true" Cathedral or something else - visitors will look at the architecture and maybe be told a bit of history. The best course for the rest of us is to check out what the people who run the place call their building and try not to read too much into it.
The distinctions are blurred now, and will become more so in generations to come.
Just one more point, we sometimes use Ger. "Dom" facetiously/colloquially for some church or similar building which stands out for its location, size or architecture, even though it does not officially bear this title and may not be particularly old.
And now the same please video for the "Dom" in Hamburg, please
Dear Andrew! I like your channel very much, and hope that you will continue making it many years! But this time you got the spelling of the swedish word at 4:04 a bit wrong. The church of a bishop is called "domkyrka" with an 'a' at the end, not an 'e'!
Ah yes, nothing gets past my eagle-eyed viewers.
if you want confusion, look for Paris and its _Hôtel des Invalides_
part of the area is Dôme des Invalides AND Cathédrale Saint-Louis-des-Invalides. the latter is the seat of the diocese of french armed forces
I once heard that the Scandinavian "dom"s were also places of justice, using the word for judgment (modern English doom, Dutch doem). But that might be folk etymology.
No it's true, the common word "dom" means Judgement or verdict. A courthouse is a "Domstol", stol meaning chair, the chair of the "Dommer" the Judge.
But a Courthouse is more often called by the more modern, Retsbygning da, or Tinghus no/se, or Byret/Landsret/Højesteret da, from Town court to High court.
The Finnish tuomio means judgement.
And the Finnish tuomiokirkko is officially an old mistake in translation according to the state church :D
We do not have a minster or a cathedral in my home town but a Basilika. ;)
Was ist das/die West Münster Abtei? Ist es nun ein Münster oder eine Abtei???? 🤔
"Westminster Abbey" ist die gängige Bezeichnung für die Stiftskirche St. Petrus in Westminster ("Collegiate Church of Saint Peter at Westminster"). Sie wurde ursprünglich als Münster für eine Abtei gebaut, die aber 1539 aufgelöst wurde -- aber daher "West-Minster", und so heißt der Londoner Stadtteil heute noch. Dann diente sie als katholische Kathedrale, bis sie 1559 zu einer Kirche der Anglikanischen Kirche wurde -- und zwar als "Royal Peculiar", d.h. dem Staatsoberhaupt direkt unterstellt, also ohne Bischof und in keiner Diözese.
"Korinthenkackerei" at it's best! 🥰
The Sankt Hedwigskathedrale behind the opera house may look boring at first glance, but in my opinion its crypt is rather fascinating. Plus, if you're there on a sunny day at the right time, you can see the sun reflected of the Fernsehturm (the television tower) in the form of a cross from a vantage point in front of the Sankt Hedwigskathedrale. This phenomenon was called 'Die Rache des Papstes' (The revenge of the pope) because the television tower was built by East-Germany to showcase the feats of communism, but the sun's reflection accidently ended up looking like a christian symbol.
To be fair, you can see the cross from any direction. The TV Tower was sometimes also called "Sankt Walter".
@@rewboss True. Named after Walter Ulbricht, the chairman of the state council of East Germany, who played a key role in the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961.
Unfortunately, the wreckovation currently being done is removing the underchapel. Glad to have seen it while it was there.
4:20 - Italian party-pooper here ^^;
As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, in Italian there are only a few "levels" the church as a building can be:
- Chiesa (church) : Basically any church that has a priest officiating in it.
- Parrocchia (parrish) : The church in which the Parroco sits, which is a group of "chiese" in a certain proximity.
- Duomo: Simply put, the most important (for any reason, mostly theological or historical ones) church in the city.
- Cattedrale: The church where the Vescovo (Bishop) or Arcivescovo (Archbishop) has its seat and officiates the Mass. Can or not be the same as the Duomo: for example, the Duomo in Milan is also the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Milan, while the Duomo in Colorno (near Parma) isn't a Cathedral.
Way more confusing are other instances for churches called "Dom" in German: St Peter's Basilica in Rome for example is called Petersdom but -dome just because of its importance and size ( and ofc because it has a real dome on top). Most people probably wouldn't know it but the official German name is "Basilika St. Peter im Vatikan".
and the main church of Rome is Lateran basilica, not St. Peter. Lateran basilica is even the main church for everything catholic as "mother and head of all churches on earth"
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateranbasilika#/media/Datei:Inschrift_lateranbasilika.jpg _OMNIVM VRBIS ET ORBIS ECCLESIARVM MATER ET CAPVT_ is a posh claim indeed :D
@@rivenoak Indeed, and the Lateran Basilica is even an extraterritorial piece of the Vatican, same as a huge number of other churches and palaces in and around Rome.
The outtakes make me wonder if you could try an impression of Charly Chaplin's Anton Hynkel.
Well I have no clue where the Swedish term "domkyrke" comes from. But the Finnish one is (propably) translated from the assumption that it comes from the word for "judgement" which in Swedish is "dom". So the Finnish word "tuomiokirkko" means "judgement church".
Similar words completely different origins.
Yes, the Finnish word is the official and common term, but it's a mistranslation. The churches in question have nothing to do with judging or judgment, but it's too late to change it now. 😄 I sort of like the lofty implication of Heavenly judgment, though.
This time I was right to think I'd seen the beginning before!
In English "cathedral" is also used for churches which technically are not cathedrals, e.g. in Scotland St Giles Cathedral (Edinburgh), Glasgow Cathedral, Dunblane Cathedral - although the Church of Scotland has no bishops at all.
That's because those churches were at one time cathedrals. For example, St. Giles' (officially the High Kirk of Edinburgh) was made the cathedral church of the Diocese of Edinburgh in 1633. That only lasted about five years, when St Giles' became a presbyterian church again, and the resulting split in the Church of Scotland created the Episcopal Church of Scotland which today has St Mary's as its cathedral church of the Episcopal Diocese of Edinburgh. But the designation "cathedral" remained, at least colloquially, and so Scotland today has several "cathedrals" that are called that because they were at one time cathedrals, even if only for a very brief period of time.
@@rewboss We have the same in Belgium and France. Some churches have been cathedral in the past, and although they are no longer seats of a bishop, they keep their title of cathedral (e.g. Laon, Ieper).
Then what exactly is the Westminster Cathedral and how to correctly translate it into German? Dom, Münster, or Kathedrale? And especially when Westminster is not in the West of London, but rather the exact center...
Westminster Abbey isn't a cathedral (at least, not these days: it was a cathedral once, for a short time) and isn't called that: its full title is the Collegiate Church of Saint Peter at Westminster, and nobody ever calls it "Westminster Cathedral". It is a collegiate church, and a "Royal Peculiar" -- meaning that it doesn't come under the authority of a bishop, but is operated directly by the monarch. As the name "Westminster Abbey" suggests, it was built as a minster for a monastery which was dissolved under Henry VIII.
And Westminster actually is to the west of the City of London. In fact, it is a city in its own right, which is governed by the Greater London Authority -- as opposed to the City of London itself, which is a separate entity in its own right and governed by its own Corporation. When Westminster Abbey was built, it was in open countryside outside of the city walls.
In Germany, it would definitely be called a "Dom". In fact, nearly all cathedrals in Germany are "Dome", it's just that not all "Dome" are cathedrals.
As far a I know. Westminster Abbey is a Royal peculiar of the established Protestant Church of England i.e. part of the state. Presumably the name Westminster City is derived from the Abbey Minster West of London. The Bishpps seat being St Paul’s Cathedral in the City of London to the East.
Westminster Catherdral is the seat of the Roman Catholic Bishop who is also a Cardinal.
I can as a swede confirm that yes, we basically don't have any cathedrals and they are instead known as "domkyrkor" which is a direct translation of "dom". Though we still have bishops.
The largest Church in the City of Berne, Switzerland, is the 'Berner Münster', also called 'Berne Cathedral'.
Bern is not catholic, the 'cathedral' is not the seat of a 'reformed' Bishop (as far as I know, I grew up in a methodist congregation) and there never was a monastery there either....
very confusing!
Wow thanks for confusing me, I have multiple cathedrals in Berlin yet I haven't seen the actual cathedral ad it appears now.
Yes, you missed
the St. Hedwig cathedral, which has a interesting history
It's interesting that the Munich Cathedral is called the Frauenkirche in English. And the Münchner Dom on its website, apparently. And Wikipedia does the translation you love so much: "Although called "Münchner Dom" (Munich Cathedral) on its website and URL, the church is referred to as "Frauenkirche" by locals." The fascinating part to me about the whole thing is that Freising was supposed to be the big deal and the little monks of München were supposed to stay little. But power politics intervened. So Freising has a lovely cathedral on the hill still, but München has the archbishop. As an engineer, my cathedral equivalent in Munichis the Deutsches Museum.
Okay, I'm totally confused. But I can't help but think you had a lot of fun with this...as well you should have. LOL!
Stupid question, but based on the knowledge you acquired for this video, how would you translate the term "Bürgerdom" into English? (Bürgerdom = large church [often the size of a cathedral] that is financed, built and maintained by the inhabitants of a city and is based on or in competition with a cathedral to show the prosperity and power of the citizens [examples: St.Lorenz and St.Sebaldus in Nuremberg based on Bamberg Cathedral, St. Lamberti in Münster in competition with the cathedral])
As for St. Lamberti, Wikipedia calls it a "parish church". Whatever that is worth.
@@KaiHenningsen What do you mean worth? The rank of the church in the hierarchy of the church institution or your answer to my questions?
In terms of rank, the parish church is the lowest and most general type of church.
Regarding your answer: I already know that Lamberti and the other two are parish churches and what that means, BUT the answer shows that users are also willing to help each other and I'm still grateful to you.
Unfortunately, the answer to the question of what is a suitable translation for the principle "Bürgerdom" remains open.
@@maxmuller7647 Both the type described as an answer, and the fact that it is from Wikipedia.
Actually, when I was a kid, I went to a Basilika (in Ellwangen). That was something with the blessing of the pope.
Don't confuse the Hamburger Dom either. Most people mention ist, are speaking of the fair at the Heiligengeistfeld, not of the actual St. Marien-Dom. Although, the fair had first started at the old Dom in the 11th century. So, the name kind of makes sense.
There was indeed a cathedral college in the 15th century - but since the Reformation, the respective sovereign was then the supreme bishop of the church. Most recently, the German Emperor was the supreme Protestant bishop, so that the designation Berlin Cathedral was correct at least until 1918
No, the prussian king (not in his role as german emperor) was head of the protestant church in Prussia. But he was not a bishop. It is similar like the situation in the UK: King Charles is (like his predecessors) "supreme head" of the Church of England, but of course he is not a bishop.
1:04 Yeah I just wanted to complain that the Mainzer Dom IS a cathedral just to realize this isn't Mainz you're showing!
9:08 But according to you, that cathedral actually is a „Dom“. 😉
Listening to your explanation makes me wonder what the Wetzlarer Dom actually is? Is it a minster or collegiate church? It‘s sitting in the diocese of Limburg, which has it‘s own Dom. So the bishop of Limburg is supervising two domes. But why are we calling the Cologne cathedral Dom when it‘s obviously a cathedral that looks like a minster. And is anybody in Germany using Kathedrale for any Dom? 🤔
I honestly can say, thank you for the clarification. I‘m now more confused than before. 😉
As I explained in the video, most cathedrals are also called "Dom", and I gave the example of the Kölner Dom as a "Dom" which is also a "Kathedrale".
So the Limburger Dom is the cathedral church of the diocese of Limburg; that diocese includes the Wetzlarer Dom wand the Kaiserdom St. Bartholomäus in Frankfurt, which are both (or used to be) "Stiftskirchen", i.e. collegiate churches.
The Limburger Dom was build as a collegiate church as well. It became seat of a bishop in the 19th century.
Now even as a native German speaker, that's been very interesting and I've learned quite a lot. But now I'm interested in another thing: is there any difference between a Basilika and a Kathedrale/Dom?
Well, there can be: a basilica is a special architectual type of building, originating in the latter Roman Empire. A higher nave (in case of a church mostly stretching from west to east) is flanked by two (or more) lower aisles and rounded up by at least one apsis.
So, for example: the Freiburger Münster or the Chester Cathedral are Basilicas whilst the Berliner Dom or the Liverpool Cathedral aren´t.
There is however the title of a "Basilica Minor" which is given to some important catholic churches, but they don´t nesseccarily have to be basilicas in technical terms.
Und jetzt nochmal auf dem auch mir etwas nativeren Deutsch: Die Basilika ist eine spezielle Bauform von Gebäude. Es müssen nicht umbedingt Kirchen sein, wurde diese Bauform ursprünglich für öffentliche Gebäude im Römischen Reich verwendet, welche allerdings zum Teil noch zu Römerzeiten in Kirchen umgewandelt wurden.
Charakteristisch für eine Basilika ist, dass diese über ein höheres Mittelschiff verfügt (im Falle einer Kirche in der Regel von West nach Ost ausgerichtet), welches von mindestens einem niedrigeren Seitenschiff pro Längsseite flankiert wird. An mindestens einer Stirnseite befindet sich eine Apsis, diese kann kreisrund (typisch für romanische Bauten) oder auch eckig (typisch für die Gotik) ausgeführt sein. Im Falle einer Kirche beherbergt diese meist den Chorraum.
@@42exabyte17 Bei den Katholiken ist (päpstliche) Basilika (minor) ein Titel, der bedeutenden Kirchen, Kathedralen, Domen und/oder Münstern verliehen wird. In Deutschland gibts davon laut Wikipedia 78 „zertifizierte“ Basiliken.
York Minster is not just a cathedral, it is the cathedral of the Archbishop of York
Ich bin noch verwirrt. Das muss ich wieder angucken 😅
Let's have a look at Tallinn in Estonia. There ist the Domberg / Toompea and the Domkirche / Toomkirik
So since we‘re being pedantic here: around 2:38 you call the church where the protestant bishop of Berlin sits “St. Mary’s Church”, but surely protestants don’t believe in saints and so translating Marienkirche with St. Mary is wrong. Isn’t it?
Ok, but what then is a basilica? I'm German and I live in a medium sized city (Rheine/80k population). We have many churches, but only one Basilika which is massive, the St.-Antonius-Basilika (102.5 metre)
Im Falle der St.-Antonius-Basilika bezieht sich die Bezeichnung auf die Bauform und damit auf die ursprüngliche Bedeutung der "Basilika" in der Kirchbauarchitktur: eine dreischiffige Kirche mit zwei Querschiffen, zwei Vierungstürmen und zwei Apsiden - ein geradezu klassischer Grundriss für eine romanische (bzw. - im Falle von St. Antonius: neoromanische) Basilika.
A lot of misconceptions in that 'explenation' of colegiates but lets let it slide
Funfuct, in poland main church in the city is caled Fara (Kościół Farny -Pfarrekirche) - from german Pfarre meaning parish i think
Cathedral behind the thunderdome?
Interesting video. Makes me question why the „Würzburger Dom“ is officially called Dom even though it has a bishop. And since it’s one of the largest churches of its kind one could assume it would therefore be called cathedral. 🤔
As I explain in the video, a church can be both a cathedral and a "Dom" at the same time. I showed the example of "Kölner Dom" which is a cathedral.
I‘m sorry but I re-watched it and could find anything about the Kölner Dom.
Would you mind saying me at what point that is. 😊
@@Raindrop2424 At timestamp 01:09 rewboss says: "And this is ..." where *this* is the Kölner Dom.
The Pro-Cathedral in Dublin is extra fun. It is the seat of a bishop, but the Catholic Church nonetheless refuse to call it a cathedral because they still claim Christchurch Cathedral as theirs. (It was taken from them and given to Anglican Church of Ireland in the wake of Henry VIII.)
Ah, century old grudges, the best kind 😄
You should become a tourist guide in Berlin.
That's a bit far to commute for him. He hasn't been living there for many years now.
As far as I can tell, the Bremer Dom - I'm from Bremen - doesn't have a dome. Aaah, I love the sillyness that is German.
Questions I've never asked myself. I just accepted any "Dom" as "Dom" because of the name. But that was very interesting.
When a „Münster“ is a dome, but not a cathedral, why ist the „Straßburger Münster“ called „Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Strasbourg“ in french then?
In modern German, "Münster" and "Dom" are nearly synonymous, with "Münster" more common in the north and "Dom" more common in the south. But as I explain in the video, cathedrals can also be described as "Dome". Almost every cathedral is a "Dom" or a "Münster", but not every "Dom" or "Münster" is a cathedral.
I'm not sure why it's not generally called a "Kathedrale" in German when it most definitely is a cathedral, but there was a period in its history when Strasbourg broke away from the bishop and the church became Protestant for a short time, so maybe it stems from that.