It is refreshing to hear that this way of thinking is still out there. If you listen to modern media you would think critical thought was killed off 15 years ago.
What is the view from within the Classical Christian Ed community about Charlotte Mason? Any advice for a public school teacher wanting to lean in this direction? I realize the podcast is older, but perhaps still viewed sometimes...
My family and I use Charlotte Mason. Although my (Joel) predilections run closer to Classical, my wife finds that Charlotte Mason's method more fits her teaching style. I have a lot of good to say about Charlotte Mason's approach. Someday perhaps I'll create more content on it; there's a dearth of men talking about it.
Great interview! Only thing that made me uneasy was the comment about the cash register... I think that didn't need to be said. But other than that, very helpful interview. Thank you!
@TheThinkInstitute I believe a craftsman is an artist of sorts where a tradesman is more of a basic builder who knows the processes involved. On top of that, there are trades that lend themselves more to craftsmen than others, say a carpenter and a plumber. Now I'm not saying plumbers can't be craftsmen, but you don't see them very often.
It’s really deceiving to call it a ‘classical education’ when it’s just made up. It has nothing to do with the actual classical curriculum taught for 2,000-plus years.
@@TheThinkInstitute It’s a modern k-12 model with some classical terminology to dress it up differently. The actual curriculum used by different schools can be found online from the Middle Ages into the 1800s. The real classical education had a fairly strict set of texts. The schools associated with the ACCS use none of them. If they aren’t teaching kids using the classical curriculum, they necessarily aren’t giving kids a classical education.
@@jakelm4256 The ACCS model uses the method of learning used by the ancient/classical model. I don't know about the book list and how it compares, but I do know there's an emphasis on the Great Books of the Western Tradition. I'd be very hesitant to call the ACCS way "modern," as that has philosophical implications which wouldn't apply.
@@TheThinkInstitute it is modern though. It uses the k-12 model and uses a curriculum never used before modern times. It certainly doesn’t use the education model used by the ancients. And a Great Books program also is not a classical education.
@@jakelm4256 No, it's not modern in the sense of being reflective of modernism as an ideology. It is classical in the sense that it draws from the ancient, time-tested literature and canon of Western Civilization in order to access timeless truth about the world, and it is Christian in the sense that it seeks to place Christ at the center of all the studies (like the hub of a wheel). I get that you wish it used the same book list as the ancients, but (a) they weren't Christian, and (b) more books have been written since then. It's within the purview of CCE practitioners (I'm not one) to update their reading list, in order to better pursue their goal of classically educating Christian children.
Check out Al wolters book, creation regained. He talks about having a Biblical reformed worldview. The idea that Christians should flee the public sector is a platinous dualistic mindset. God created the concept of school, and the cultural institution of school. Christians should by all means work in the public school system to educate children to the best of their ability and to show them loving kindness in the process. This will bring glory to God and point other people to him. We do not need to paste God's name on to everything we do in order to be living a life for God.
Christian children should not be "educated" (truthfully - indoctrinated) by the government school system. My children are my responsibility, not the State's. Left to the State, my children would be taught SEL, which grooms them for sexual abuse, evolution - a truly racist world view... And all other forms of godlessness. Hard pass. I can't believe this comment is only 4 months old. Do you have any close dealings with the public school system? They are not equipping or teaching children - they're indoctrinating them!
Very helpful questions you asked Pastor Doug! Because of your questions I value this interview greatly and will share this youtube video with others!
I agree. He did a good job asking questions that drew more out of Doug to give the conversation more meat.
Thank you for this interview! I am reading Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning now. Wonderful book.
Thanks Liz! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Fantastic interview! Really appreciate the thoughtfulness of both of you regarding one of the most important issues the Church faces today.
Thanks for watching, and for the encouragement.
It is refreshing to hear that this way of thinking is still out there. If you listen to modern media you would think critical thought was killed off 15 years ago.
Yep-It's not dead yet!
thanks for setting up this interview, many questions answered, thanks
Very glad to hear it, Mr. Knox. BTW I'm a big fan of your Scottish Reformation. :)
What is the view from within the Classical Christian Ed community about Charlotte Mason?
Any advice for a public school teacher wanting to lean in this direction?
I realize the podcast is older, but perhaps still viewed sometimes...
My family and I use Charlotte Mason. Although my (Joel) predilections run closer to Classical, my wife finds that Charlotte Mason's method more fits her teaching style.
I have a lot of good to say about Charlotte Mason's approach. Someday perhaps I'll create more content on it; there's a dearth of men talking about it.
Great interview! Only thing that made me uneasy was the comment about the cash register... I think that didn't need to be said. But other than that, very helpful interview. Thank you!
what was the comment again?
And thanks!
Thanks for this conversation. Can you share that link to the website with the data on Christianity spreading throughout the world?
Sorry but I recorded this four years ago and I'm not sure what the reference is.
I can't find that book called the "turning point". Any help? Edit: I found it! It's called turning point by Marvin Olasky and Herbert Schlossberg
Glad you found it, Sam!
I believe a liberal arts education would create a craftsman over a tradesman.
Good point. How would you explain the difference?
@TheThinkInstitute I believe a craftsman is an artist of sorts where a tradesman is more of a basic builder who knows the processes involved. On top of that, there are trades that lend themselves more to craftsmen than others, say a carpenter and a plumber. Now I'm not saying plumbers can't be craftsmen, but you don't see them very often.
@TheThinkInstitute I think of a craftsman more like someone who does commission work, versus regular construction and the like.
excellent!
Many thanks! SDG!
It’s really deceiving to call it a ‘classical education’ when it’s just made up. It has nothing to do with the actual classical curriculum taught for 2,000-plus years.
Nothing?
@@TheThinkInstitute It’s a modern k-12 model with some classical terminology to dress it up differently. The actual curriculum used by different schools can be found online from the Middle Ages into the 1800s. The real classical education had a fairly strict set of texts. The schools associated with the ACCS use none of them. If they aren’t teaching kids using the classical curriculum, they necessarily aren’t giving kids a classical education.
@@jakelm4256 The ACCS model uses the method of learning used by the ancient/classical model. I don't know about the book list and how it compares, but I do know there's an emphasis on the Great Books of the Western Tradition. I'd be very hesitant to call the ACCS way "modern," as that has philosophical implications which wouldn't apply.
@@TheThinkInstitute it is modern though. It uses the k-12 model and uses a curriculum never used before modern times. It certainly doesn’t use the education model used by the ancients. And a Great Books program also is not a classical education.
@@jakelm4256 No, it's not modern in the sense of being reflective of modernism as an ideology.
It is classical in the sense that it draws from the ancient, time-tested literature and canon of Western Civilization in order to access timeless truth about the world, and it is Christian in the sense that it seeks to place Christ at the center of all the studies (like the hub of a wheel).
I get that you wish it used the same book list as the ancients, but (a) they weren't Christian, and (b) more books have been written since then.
It's within the purview of CCE practitioners (I'm not one) to update their reading list, in order to better pursue their goal of classically educating Christian children.
Check out Al wolters book, creation regained. He talks about having a Biblical reformed worldview. The idea that Christians should flee the public sector is a platinous dualistic mindset. God created the concept of school, and the cultural institution of school. Christians should by all means work in the public school system to educate children to the best of their ability and to show them loving kindness in the process. This will bring glory to God and point other people to him. We do not need to paste God's name on to everything we do in order to be living a life for God.
Christian children should not be "educated" (truthfully - indoctrinated) by the government school system. My children are my responsibility, not the State's. Left to the State, my children would be taught SEL, which grooms them for sexual abuse, evolution - a truly racist world view... And all other forms of godlessness. Hard pass. I can't believe this comment is only 4 months old. Do you have any close dealings with the public school system? They are not equipping or teaching children - they're indoctrinating them!
Christians can WORK in the government system but we should not send our children for 8 hours a day to be indoctrinated into their worldview.
That's some tortured logic there.