I just hit level 11 doing a combination of solo/group and yes - once you find a good place with appropriate mobs, solo grinding is far faster than group xp. it makes no sense.
Wow i noticed this too, i was telling my bud i feel like i can kill blue mobs and gain the same xp as in groups. He didn't agree, but he was a warrior. Also, i dont like grouping mainly because loot is so scarce. So not only is it a slow grind, but i dont make any money for my trouble. Wish the gear made a noticeable difference in damage or defense like a level does. You have to equip at least 4 new upgrades to notice a change. Im still low level, but gear should make things easier, but it doesn't feel that way.
First class i rolled was a Monk. Had some issues at first but I've got all of my level soloing. They need to make grouping a big draw. More xp, and better drops just for being in a group might help.
This is an massively multiplayer online RPG. The developers should do everything that is possible to ENCOURAGE social gameplay. Groups should always give more efficient exp.
Need to just adjust the amount of xp for elites to be a lot higher and nerf some of the dps classes that can chain pull yellow con mobs. DPS should be damage dealers and depend on a meat shield to survive.
They just need to rebuff the group XP like prior to the goblin nerfs in the beginning of the December. I have a 20 monk that I mostly soloed from 12 to 18 and didn't want to do HC groups, but now after they implemented AVP orcs, I am loving grouping again
yeah outside of tanks, getting levels is more important than getting gear. You can always just get better gear later and still get it before anyone else. Group xp just shouldnt be divided at all at any count.
"Everquest" just made soloing non viable for most classes and forced grouping. I feel like this is something so difficult to balance you have to either make grouping attractive for some other risk/reward system or make soloing impossibly slow. But I really don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. And as long as group drops are tradeable, you can't even solve it with loot.
Wish that the loss of xp didn't drop you a level when you die. / dont mind loosing xp but constantly being kicked down a level is just a mechanic to piss off players.
The damage and AC formulas don’t make sense either. If you do more damage to a rat, it will mitigate more. You would think after 10 years of development or even brain storming the formulas would of been ironed out. I’m really suspicious that the game was honestly only started for real a few years ago: DL getting a parry enhancing ability at level 1 but can’t parry until 10. Trading as an example; not knowing if they’re doing an AH or bazaar or keeping it how it is, wouldn’t this decision of been made years ago? There are a lot of things that I’m really suspicious that things were never truly decided and everything lived in Brad’s head. Really like the game so far though and I do have hope but i do feel some sort of way about these things
IMO each additional group member should give you a flat 20% xp bonus up to double the xp from a mob in a full group. this encourages groups of all sizes and brings the leveling speed more in line with EQ. The gap between solo and group mobs also needs serious tweaking.
Why more xp for each additional member? should be at least +200% xp for elites because they are at least twice as hard as normal mobs. More group members just means faster clear = faster xp.
There isn't "Zero positives" The positives is awesome gear and loot that they wouldn't get if they were just soloing mobs. They are gonna get phat lewts without a group
However this video makes grouping sound completely pointless which is wrong, best loot in the game comes from deep within dungeons which require groups to deal with pulling and CC, also chain soloing chevrons is way way more gold than soloing, soloing is only good for xp for some classes and that is temporary since everyone will be 40 eventually
In Eq I mained a warrior and a druid at different times. As a warrior I could not solo pretty any after level 3. I had to group all the time. I am not for this game turning into a solo game. there are plenty of online games out there that cater to this. I think solo is fine but it should be slow. Making this more solo friendly just makes it more difficult to get people to group. obviously, as you said, there should be better exp and rewards for grouping. not sure why it is not like that in this game. that is what this game is meant to be. this is still EA so I am sure things will be balanced better.
i died by far on my twinked as hell monk more then any other classes i played " shaman " Paladin " cleric " Direlord by far i got so frustrated with my monk,s only " heal " being long CD i simply gave up on him for now at level 11. Could be i am either playing the class wrong , or need other gear then i got, but right now its a race against time to kill something before it kills me, and my shaman and paladin do yellow con mobs no prob my monk sure as hell dont
I think this is how it should be. It might need some balancing. Warrior should have low dps but take low damage. Necros and pet class will always solo better from just the way the class is. Most classes should need to group for exp. Buff the group exp a bit to make it almost no reason to want to solo.
Rates of XP between groups vs solo lower than level 20 is quite irrelevant. There's no reason to discuss XP rates at that low of a level. Above 20, there's virtually no solo content available. Which voids that discussion. Let the game progress to a point where a valid argument can be presented.
There is a LOT of solo content at 20+. I know because I've leveled almost exclusively solo/duo killing solo mobs and I'm level 28. Most group content I do is for gear.
enough content to log in solo and make far more progression in bits and bites than the high risk group content for sure.... Just because they stopped the dup gold doesn't mean those that did dont still have it... literally got 5gp per rabbit foot yesterday from (i suspect a due'pr, ) get gold get gear , bla bla bla its EA, biggest problem is crafting level is tied to adventurer level imo, this will alleviate the pressure to "group" for that elite +20% gear
Maybe they should have exp bonuses while in a group based on class. Take the rogue for example. They can't solo very well, so they should get a really good bonus while soloing. While a summoner needs no one, he should get a bigger bonus while grouping.
More the pet classes should lose a huge chunk of XP if their pet does more damage than they do, same with the groups they are in. If you have 3 Summoners and the pets do 51% of the damage, XP penalty.
it is one month into at least 2 years of early access (will be likely much longer than that), xp issues will be settled in time, there is so much more important stuff to build and fix right now
@kearseymorton2078 I disagree. Xp is a fundamental part of the game and needs to be addressed to keep players playing. Also, you're correct there are other issues that need to be fixed but we can't ignore everything else. Some things can be ignore while others need to at least be discussed.
@kearseymorton False. Exp gains are one of the most important things in game, its what most players focus on in character progression. If its messed up, as it is now, it only causes frustration. And frustration cause players to not want to play. This is why many players left Embers Adrift because of the painfully slow leveling.
Make "group" mobs have a buff that makes them 50% resistant to solo player damage and buff loot for bosses to 2 drops. Buff group xp. Add more solo mobs that focus on crafting materials. That way they can separate playstyles without hurting group or solo play.
You have left out the biggest BENEFIT of group, the content and the community. Us old school gamers from the days of UO, EQ and DAoC, it wasnt all about who could get to 50+ the fastest or the best drop, it was about the people you were with. Problem now is you got everyone in a mad rush to finish something that isnt finishable (That even word?!). Those people are the people whining about the XP ""issue"". The people that will disagree are the pre-50 year old's, that are used to their Xbox run and gun games and try to complete it as fast as they can then buy another and move to that. Those same people will then whine about no content post 40 while they have skipped the whole experience of exploring those lower level areas with a sense of danger, instead of just being able to go in and clear the whole thing by themselves.
there is No benefit in grouping tbh.... other than risking dying to ding dong group members, I am all for community but NEWS FLASH!!!! you and your 12 buddies does not a community create..... your POV is bias i suspect...
Pretty much the only reason I want to group is for gear. For exp, there’s no reason to for my class. And that’s fine for my class, but other classes don’t really have that option. My main is a summoner, mainly because I have a busy life and needed a solo class and corpse summon really helps with that
Honestly, if all you want to do is solo why are you playing this mmo? Go play RPGs. Serioulsy i mean this without malice. This mmo is group focused to complete objectives while classes compliment each other. Learn what your class role is, contribute to a goal of a dungeon crawl, an xp grind, questing or open exploration. Its like playing basketball by yourself and dunking all day but youve missed the point of playing basketball. Look getting groups can be a challenge, i get that but at some point youre going to group, not know wtf youre doing and give everyone a nice long corpse run or worse. Then youll get a bad reputation and reputation is big in a game like this. While your killing boars mindlessly for hours because the xp is a bit better youll be the first ones crying about how boring the game is because you completely missed the core of the game. If you dont know what the core of the game is its because youre to focused on soloing and havent actually played the game yet. But what do i know.
First off great video. In my opinion xp should be the opposite of what it is now, 3 people or less should get an XP reduction, greater than should get a boost. Brad's vision for this game was to bring people together instead of the solo slop the MMORPG genre has evolved to, largely impart to corp greed cash shops, society's shift to 30 sec attention spans, and the rejection of a nuclear family unit. Sure there's the argument that casuals won't play, but if the rules are more is better, and less than 3 is pointless, then grps will start operating as such. I personally have been in grps where almost every other party member was swapped for someone else due to time constraints 5 times in 3 hours, and that continued when I had to log and found a sub. So the argument that casuals will suffer is moot, the only obvious scenario which technically they can't do (and don't have time for) is deep dungeon dives, where it takes a couple hours to get through. But , again that can be solved by summoning (forgot the correct term) others to the group.
This was posted in VIP last night. Experience situation recap -Soloing Yellow NPC's was always the fastest experience per hour if your class was good at soloing even before we made any changes to exp rates -We gave solo NPC's an experience modifier (Band-Aid fix until we could get programming involved). On prod blue NPC's are giving up to +80% experience compared to before any adjustments. This also makes solo/duo yellow solo NPC's insanely fast. -Group exp is now slower in some cases because of all these changes compounding. Group exp is also significantly riskier with a much higher death rate (exp loss involved). Upcoming changes -Solo and group experience was really rough bc blue NPC exp reward dropped off a cliff (-60%, now down to -10%) so anyone who couldn't kill yellows (group or solo) was crawling through exp (already in game) -Experience will continue to improve for solo + group as we change our con system to the % based formula -Classes are getting needed improvements to their solo/duo/trio viability -Player level/con bonuses will further help struggling players -We will be removing the band-aid modifier on solo NPC exp because of all of these proper fixes To me it sounds like they flipped 180 and now don't want the game to be very group focused.
Sounds to me like they are just trying to get a decent balance between the two because if they make grouping the only viable option to level anywhere close to efficiently then the game will die
I know rouge is in a bad spot, but I’m sure that with added content and gear, that late game they will be extremely important for high level groups. And I like that. But I have zero desire to roll a rouge as is.
Though you are spot on with most of your points, there is positives to grouping as the required classes...namely loot. There is no solo camp that can come anywhere near to matching the gold you get from HC ghosts for example. Having said that, as an overgeared dire lord I have only been in one group which was more exp than soloing. (Which I do often in the AM hours when groups are harder to find) I think something as simple as a +20% exp for grouping, and a -20% exp for soloing would bring this in line with the majority preference.
I just hit level 11 doing a combination of solo/group and yes - once you find a good place with appropriate mobs, solo grinding is far faster than group xp. it makes no sense.
I thought I was imagining things - being in a group and having such incredibly slow XP gain! Glad to see this video.
Wow i noticed this too, i was telling my bud i feel like i can kill blue mobs and gain the same xp as in groups. He didn't agree, but he was a warrior. Also, i dont like grouping mainly because loot is so scarce. So not only is it a slow grind, but i dont make any money for my trouble. Wish the gear made a noticeable difference in damage or defense like a level does. You have to equip at least 4 new upgrades to notice a change. Im still low level, but gear should make things easier, but it doesn't feel that way.
First class i rolled was a Monk. Had some issues at first but I've got all of my level soloing. They need to make grouping a big draw. More xp, and better drops just for being in a group might help.
Group that monk and learn to pull. Because if you wait till 25 to start grouping you'll be kicked outta groups for getting then wiped for not pulling
Group exp is only good if the players in the group are good, group exp needs to account for atleast a couple bad players
This is an massively multiplayer online RPG. The developers should do everything that is possible to ENCOURAGE social gameplay. Groups should always give more efficient exp.
XP loss on death is pure time sink that makes the player less likely to group on top of that you lose a lvl and cant use certain abilitys.
meh, dont die... i love the dark dark and the penalty of not "winning", literally 100 other mmorpgs you can go play that are muggle mode.
TLDR lemme have this 1 game where no effort = hard mode..Pa-lease....
This game is PERFECT for the unemployed!
Also take into account the players that do not play an mmo to solo. Some people just enjoy grouping
Ive got friends giving up due to group XP and classes they like not being solo friendly.
cause group is high risk for sure
Then this game is not for them. This is a group game. If you don’t like grouping, go play wow
Need to just adjust the amount of xp for elites to be a lot higher and nerf some of the dps classes that can chain pull yellow con mobs. DPS should be damage dealers and depend on a meat shield to survive.
They just need to rebuff the group XP like prior to the goblin nerfs in the beginning of the December.
I have a 20 monk that I mostly soloed from 12 to 18 and didn't want to do HC groups, but now after they implemented AVP orcs, I am loving grouping again
yeah outside of tanks, getting levels is more important than getting gear. You can always just get better gear later and still get it before anyone else. Group xp just shouldnt be divided at all at any count.
"Everquest" just made soloing non viable for most classes and forced grouping. I feel like this is something so difficult to balance you have to either make grouping attractive for some other risk/reward system or make soloing impossibly slow. But I really don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. And as long as group drops are tradeable, you can't even solve it with loot.
Wish that the loss of xp didn't drop you a level when you die. / dont mind loosing xp but constantly being kicked down a level is just a mechanic to piss off players.
imo ignore ding and grab that extra 12%... i do.
The damage and AC formulas don’t make sense either. If you do more damage to a rat, it will mitigate more. You would think after 10 years of development or even brain storming the formulas would of been ironed out. I’m really suspicious that the game was honestly only started for real a few years ago: DL getting a parry enhancing ability at level 1 but can’t parry until 10. Trading as an example; not knowing if they’re doing an AH or bazaar or keeping it how it is, wouldn’t this decision of been made years ago? There are a lot of things that I’m really suspicious that things were never truly decided and everything lived in Brad’s head.
Really like the game so far though and I do have hope but i do feel some sort of way about these things
IMO each additional group member should give you a flat 20% xp bonus up to double the xp from a mob in a full group. this encourages groups of all sizes and brings the leveling speed more in line with EQ. The gap between solo and group mobs also needs serious tweaking.
Why more xp for each additional member? should be at least +200% xp for elites because they are at least twice as hard as normal mobs. More group members just means faster clear = faster xp.
I was thinking something like an extra 10 percent xp per member. So 2 ppl would get 10 percent more xp while 6 ppl would get 50 percent more xp.
There isn't "Zero positives" The positives is awesome gear and loot that they wouldn't get if they were just soloing mobs. They are gonna get phat lewts without a group
However this video makes grouping sound completely pointless which is wrong, best loot in the game comes from deep within dungeons which require groups to deal with pulling and CC, also chain soloing chevrons is way way more gold than soloing, soloing is only good for xp for some classes and that is temporary since everyone will be 40 eventually
In Eq I mained a warrior and a druid at different times. As a warrior I could not solo pretty any after level 3. I had to group all the time. I am not for this game turning into a solo game. there are plenty of online games out there that cater to this. I think solo is fine but it should be slow. Making this more solo friendly just makes it more difficult to get people to group. obviously, as you said, there should be better exp and rewards for grouping. not sure why it is not like that in this game. that is what this game is meant to be. this is still EA so I am sure things will be balanced better.
i died by far on my twinked as hell monk more then any other classes i played " shaman " Paladin " cleric " Direlord by far i got so frustrated with my monk,s only " heal " being long CD i simply gave up on him for now at level 11. Could be i am either playing the class wrong , or need other gear then i got, but right now its a race against time to kill something before it kills me, and my shaman and paladin do yellow con mobs no prob my monk sure as hell dont
EXP farming should be solo oriented. Dungeons and gear farming group oriented.
I dont want to group instantly every single time i login.
This is not a solo oriented game. If you wanna solo, go play wow. This is for groups and as such, group play should be more rewarded then solo play
Absolutely not. If you want a solo MMORPG you got 100 to choose from. Let games be unique and niche please.
I think this is how it should be. It might need some balancing. Warrior should have low dps but take low damage. Necros and pet class will always solo better from just the way the class is. Most classes should need to group for exp. Buff the group exp a bit to make it almost no reason to want to solo.
Rates of XP between groups vs solo lower than level 20 is quite irrelevant. There's no reason to discuss XP rates at that low of a level. Above 20, there's virtually no solo content available. Which voids that discussion. Let the game progress to a point where a valid argument can be presented.
There is a LOT of solo content at 20+. I know because I've leveled almost exclusively solo/duo killing solo mobs and I'm level 28. Most group content I do is for gear.
Duo exp is actually bis for 30+
enough content to log in solo and make far more progression in bits and bites than the high risk group content for sure....
Just because they stopped the dup gold doesn't mean those that did dont still have it... literally got 5gp per rabbit foot yesterday from (i suspect a due'pr, ) get gold get gear , bla bla bla its EA, biggest problem is crafting level is tied to adventurer level imo, this will alleviate the pressure to "group" for that elite +20% gear
Maybe they should have exp bonuses while in a group based on class. Take the rogue for example. They can't solo very well, so they should get a really good bonus while soloing. While a summoner needs no one, he should get a bigger bonus while grouping.
More the pet classes should lose a huge chunk of XP if their pet does more damage than they do, same with the groups they are in. If you have 3 Summoners and the pets do 51% of the damage, XP penalty.
it is one month into at least 2 years of early access (will be likely much longer than that), xp issues will be settled in time, there is so much more important stuff to build and fix right now
@kearseymorton2078 I disagree. Xp is a fundamental part of the game and needs to be addressed to keep players playing. Also, you're correct there are other issues that need to be fixed but we can't ignore everything else. Some things can be ignore while others need to at least be discussed.
@kearseymorton False. Exp gains are one of the most important things in game, its what most players focus on in character progression. If its messed up, as it is now, it only causes frustration. And frustration cause players to not want to play. This is why many players left Embers Adrift because of the painfully slow leveling.
@@KriddleKraddle 💯🎯
@@KriddleKraddle I say they do a wipe and then everyone will be back to getting good xp 1-16 solo again and problem solved...
@@KriddleKraddle I disagree, it'll get sorted, given time this bea U tiful game will get ruined by hand holding and easy mode.... Great video btw!
Make "group" mobs have a buff that makes them 50% resistant to solo player damage and buff loot for bosses to 2 drops. Buff group xp. Add more solo mobs that focus on crafting materials. That way they can separate playstyles without hurting group or solo play.
@steveblack2429 So basically ruin soloing, F that.
You have left out the biggest BENEFIT of group, the content and the community. Us old school gamers from the days of UO, EQ and DAoC, it wasnt all about who could get to 50+ the fastest or the best drop, it was about the people you were with. Problem now is you got everyone in a mad rush to finish something that isnt finishable (That even word?!). Those people are the people whining about the XP ""issue"".
The people that will disagree are the pre-50 year old's, that are used to their Xbox run and gun games and try to complete it as fast as they can then buy another and move to that. Those same people will then whine about no content post 40 while they have skipped the whole experience of exploring those lower level areas with a sense of danger, instead of just being able to go in and clear the whole thing by themselves.
there is No benefit in grouping tbh.... other than risking dying to ding dong group members, I am all for community but NEWS FLASH!!!! you and your 12 buddies does not a community create..... your POV is bias i suspect...
Groups have the advantage of access to better gear and schematic drops, through Dungeon runs and Group mobs.
@@YowserUK we are talking about xp.
Pretty much the only reason I want to group is for gear. For exp, there’s no reason to for my class. And that’s fine for my class, but other classes don’t really have that option. My main is a summoner, mainly because I have a busy life and needed a solo class and corpse summon really helps with that
Who cares when I'm 40 a month before everyone else
@@Zerker77745 who cares when everyone will be 40 eventually and then groups win
Honestly, if all you want to do is solo why are you playing this mmo? Go play RPGs. Serioulsy i mean this without malice. This mmo is group focused to complete objectives while classes compliment each other. Learn what your class role is, contribute to a goal of a dungeon crawl, an xp grind, questing or open exploration. Its like playing basketball by yourself and dunking all day but youve missed the point of playing basketball. Look getting groups can be a challenge, i get that but at some point youre going to group, not know wtf youre doing and give everyone a nice long corpse run or worse. Then youll get a bad reputation and reputation is big in a game like this. While your killing boars mindlessly for hours because the xp is a bit better youll be the first ones crying about how boring the game is because you completely missed the core of the game. If you dont know what the core of the game is its because youre to focused on soloing and havent actually played the game yet. But what do i know.
ya.. solo dark blue-yellow far better xp than group zerging yellow... END of story!!
random thought.. maybe certain classes should be flagged as "Group" classes?
As a Direlord, i can solo (at lv 15) xp at 2-3 times the rate of group xp ( solo yellow vs grouping yellow)
Ya itemization is a thing, IMO its the linked crafting class to adventurer class, separate them and itemization will be better imo (EQ2) FOR example
As a "geared" direlord i can solo a GREEN heroic and pull another after 30s-1minute, that said i can chain pull solo yellows...
Ya, of my 16 deaths 15 have been in group... group is high risk
First off great video. In my opinion xp should be the opposite of what it is now, 3 people or less should get an XP reduction, greater than should get a boost. Brad's vision for this game was to bring people together instead of the solo slop the MMORPG genre has evolved to, largely impart to corp greed cash shops, society's shift to 30 sec attention spans, and the rejection of a nuclear family unit. Sure there's the argument that casuals won't play, but if the rules are more is better, and less than 3 is pointless, then grps will start operating as such. I personally have been in grps where almost every other party member was swapped for someone else due to time constraints 5 times in 3 hours, and that continued when I had to log and found a sub. So the argument that casuals will suffer is moot, the only obvious scenario which technically they can't do (and don't have time for) is deep dungeon dives, where it takes a couple hours to get through. But , again that can be solved by summoning (forgot the correct term) others to the group.
This was posted in VIP last night.
Experience situation recap
-Soloing Yellow NPC's was always the fastest experience per hour if your class was good at soloing even before we made any changes to exp rates
-We gave solo NPC's an experience modifier (Band-Aid fix until we could get programming involved). On prod blue NPC's are giving up to +80% experience compared to before any adjustments. This also makes solo/duo yellow solo NPC's insanely fast.
-Group exp is now slower in some cases because of all these changes compounding. Group exp is also significantly riskier with a much higher death rate (exp loss involved).
Upcoming changes
-Solo and group experience was really rough bc blue NPC exp reward dropped off a cliff (-60%, now down to -10%) so anyone who couldn't kill yellows (group or solo) was crawling through exp (already in game)
-Experience will continue to improve for solo + group as we change our con system to the % based formula
-Classes are getting needed improvements to their solo/duo/trio viability
-Player level/con bonuses will further help struggling players
-We will be removing the band-aid modifier on solo NPC exp because of all of these proper fixes
To me it sounds like they flipped 180 and now don't want the game to be very group focused.
Sounds to me like they are just trying to get a decent balance between the two because if they make grouping the only viable option to level anywhere close to efficiently then the game will die
I know rouge is in a bad spot, but I’m sure that with added content and gear, that late game they will be extremely important for high level groups. And I like that. But I have zero desire to roll a rouge as is.
Though you are spot on with most of your points, there is positives to grouping as the required classes...namely loot. There is no solo camp that can come anywhere near to matching the gold you get from HC ghosts for example. Having said that, as an overgeared dire lord I have only been in one group which was more exp than soloing. (Which I do often in the AM hours when groups are harder to find) I think something as simple as a +20% exp for grouping, and a -20% exp for soloing would bring this in line with the majority preference.