Not only was Jordan a facilitator, he was a facilitator when it mattered the most Averaged 11.4 assists per game in the 1991 Finals 2 years later, averaged 41 ppg in the 1993 Finals Jordan is untouchable
This should settle it... go watch all the Bulls vs Detroit games posted. If you don't gain a new respect for Jordan with this rivalry, nothing will ever convince you otherwise.
Mj is the greatest basketball player ever, LeBron doesn’t compare to Mj . LeBrons a great player , who’s played for a long time , and has accumulated stats , but it doesn’t make him a greater player than Jordan . I don’t have LeBron in my top 5 .
Blue, what are you talking about? LeBron had more years and he Ain’t there yet. He needs 35 more games of 30 points. The hate is smoking a cigar at the finishline. The tortoise is dead. Lmao
Does LeBron have more 40 and 50 points games than Jordan also I'm just askin? What's better all them 30pnt games in less seasons or more seasons. MJ didn't set out to break records he set out to win. I used to hate watching my team lose every year he was never my favorite player but I know the greatest it's easy seeing them in their prime. My favorite player is Vince Carter but I still know Jordan is the GOAT it doesn't make any other player less great just to admit MJ is the GOAT it's just giving credit to the all time greatest psycho to ever step foot on the court. It's easy to worry about racking up stats for your legacy but how many can rack up stats for their team like wins or games won. It's harder to will your team to greatness even with a super team it's not easy to win championships. It takes something more than just the best to win a championship it takes determination competitive drive.
@@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast yep. but in my mind the last dance really solidified his goat status. If a far from relevant Mike can just drop a doc (which he didn’t want dropped), and suddenly the world wants to be like Mike again… cmon only legends move like this.
the fact that all lebron's team mates are choosing MJ over him is crazy, but the top coaches as well? that is crazier!!!! when pat and phil said it, that should be the end of the conversation. and please stop involving lebron on stats. his stats are all accumulated over the years he played, any mediocre player can do that. but to be the best for each season, that is harder to achieve
I've said this before. LeBron is a great, great player who gets the longetivity award. But, those that can't win championships play for stats. And LeBron plays for stats.
Most people that say that don’t know that when Jordan filled in at PG, he had 10 triple doubles in 11 games. He could pass very well but the bulls needed him to score more than pass
Jordan is, without question, the best player that's ever walked the earth. I think Barkley is actually a little taller than MJ. I've seen Barkley several times in Vegas. He's about two inches taller than me and I've been measured (by the measure Nazi, my father) at 6'4.25." I saw MJ at a significant distance at a Hornets' game. He looks about 6'5" even. It doesn't really matter but imagine MJ, with his skillset, at 6'8."
Its crazy to me how some players have to tiptoe around LeBron not taking bad shots. Like who tf are warching? LeBron has an entire highlight reel of taking nothing BUT bad shots.
You can just tell who’s better by comparing the stories players have about Jordan and LeBron. Everyone has a story about how Jordan was feared. Most players strategy was to be nice to him. Lebron stories are mortal like every other great player.
Blue ain’t too bright. Totoise and hare???? Has nothing to do with the way basketball works. It’s not a 20 year marathon. You win or lose ever year of your career. MJ spent 11 full years with Bulls and got 6 chips, 2 3 peats, 10 scoring titles, DPOY, 6 FMVP’s, 5 MVP’s, steals titles etc. LeBron spent 11 years in Cleveland and won one, league manipulated chip for them in 2016. ZERO comparison. ZERO 3 peats, ZERO dynasties etc. MJ did FAR MORE in much less time than LeBron ever did. MJ had a 3k point season, LeBron ZERO. MJ had 7 2500+ points a season. Lebron ZERO. MJ got to 30k points, with only 2 pointers, in 140 less games than LeBron. Only player in history that did that faster is Wilt. He got to 30k only 20 games sooner than MJ. If MJ didn’t break his foot, he would have easily got to 30k points way before Wilt. Nothing about LeBron is that impressive. He is a stat player. He puts his personal stats ahead of team success, hence his abysmal winning record. He cannot play off ball, horrible ball handling and shooting yet he is goat? This generation is all feelings, thanks to LeMedia. They hate facts and reality.
LeBron better, you fault his longevity but praise Jordan volume... Talk about a hypocrite... Then downplay the '16 ring which with dirks is the most valuable in NBA history... Jordan 6 against expansion league nba is laughable with his stacked team compared to every finals team he played lol not to mention the league babied Jordan more than anyone in the history of the league
@@codyeble0713 I see you are versed in LeThink. Another graduate from the I Promise schools. One day you read your post sndvrealize how utterly stupid it sounds. All feelings, zero facts.
@@codyeble0713in no way is LeBron better. You trying to down play Jordan’s 6 and talk about stacking teams? Bulls drafted pippen and developed him the. Got a Rodman no one wanted. Lebron had to run away to join top 5 players in the league only to under perform. Then leave them high and dry to join who was arguably the best PG in the league at the time and bring in another top big to win, leave the high and dry again to join a top 5 big in the league again play Gm and get a bunch of washed all stars on his team. Jordan worked to win, LeBron does what I do ok 2k trying to go 82-0
My problem with the goat talk is, basketball is a 2 way sport. You can’t talk goat status without talking about defense, everyone only want to talk about offensive stats
Thats crazy work to sit there, having never stepped foot on an nba court. And to tell your pops, a former star and a hall of famer, barkley. Nah im know more about ball then the both of you.
@@dwightcurrie8316 The poster said that WHOEVER said that Jordan isn't the GOAT don't play the game of basketball. My point is that some NBA legends do not consider Jordan to be the GOAT so the poster's statement is false. You pointing out that some people who do play basketball consider Jordan to be the GOAT does not negate my statement.
"took a lil bit longer" 7 years is a damn whole career 😂 this kid is annoying asl. U can call anyone the goat..but at least have better reasons/a case...
But there is none that can say they had to sit up because of their injuries, you never heard of another player being injured once and from there took everything by storm there is not one … that’s the post
What about MJ he took a split and went to he retired and came back and won three more who in the world in heaven in this earth can ever do something like that you too you win three you take a break for a year and a half and then you come back and win three more
I don’t get the discussion. Kobe (himself), LeBron (himself), LeBron’s teammates, and 99% of the players that played against MJ and LeBron all say that MJ is the Goat
@ You’re literally on the internet. It’s an easy search. LeBron said many of times that he wanted to be like MJ. Almost every ball player did. He wore MJ‘s number. Even Kobe (RIP) changed his number to 24 because of MJ. LeBron made jokes calling himself the Goat, but admitted to wanting to be like MJ. I actually don’t hear anybody saying that they want to be like LeBron. You’re in denial, and it’s ok
what baffles me is that noone speaks about the skill that he had. MJ was on another level than most of players, and they do not want to admit it. I am not even sure why people bring leflop in discussion, because it is literally embarrassing. Leflop, cannot handle the ball, literally. All he does is dunks and that is it. The scope of the game is to shoot the ball. Leflop has no handles, cannot shoot, cannot perform under pressure, cannot defend, cannot dribble, cannot rebound... I mean, you can find a dozen players in the 80s and 90s that are better than leflop in all these aspects? What, he stayed 21 years and probably gets testosterone buffs and roids up every 6 months? What are we even comparing here? You have to be blind and stupid to put Leflop in the same solar system with MJ.
LeBron shooting percentage is gruesome. They hated Russ for his triple doubles. LeBron they praise for stats. He has cumulative stats. Nothing to be ashamed of, LeBron has been better than they hype. A feat, in and of itself.
Biggest what ifs D Rose, T Mac, and Kawhi Leonard because they all had big hype yet struggled with injury fairly early. LaBronze was one of a handful left, D Rose had the top spot until injuries, LaJuice was available most of the time.
@@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast I'm not talking about them they know for sure I'm talking about many others, especially people working behind the scenes. The people u named, plus a few others that's about let's say 10 people in alll those rooms, don't forget every US state alone has their own teams and tables where people sit and talk as well, plus the people working behind the scenes there. Not even 10% of the people actually know Jordan, the names u mentioned are always the ones who have to keep reminding people, and there are still people coming with those questions every single time.
@@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast And I'm not even talking about players just yet, imagine so many players always talking about stuff and RARELY do they talk about MJ his stories, and of course why should they when there are other things going on. Plus not everyone watches at the exact time when an MJ story is told either so over a 10 to 20 year period you end up with, full on grown ups who never even seen Jordan play or heard a single story about him, other than having some uncle at the BBQ mention his name and some players mention something, and seen memes of him or whatever. They don't know nothing else but the games they've seen. And that's the same for the new players too, there are NBA players who have been playing for almost 10 years who have never watched Jordan before. Imagine that. They're never gonna talk about him they never knew him, which influences and increases the odds even more of people thinking the GOAT is somebody else.
MJ, Bird, and Magic are 1,2,3, LeBron ain't even top 15 in Greatest of all time debate. Yall need to stop the nonsense! Anybody, who quits on his team the playoffs and in the finals is not worthy to be on the goat list. Especially when that player played in the weakest defensive era in NBA history! He doesn't play on the defensive end, and his shooting average is low outside 3 feet, and he can't shoot free throws. Lequit is way down on that list of greats.
@TheMeefive It wasn't just Dr J, that sixers team was stacked with talent, more than the Celtics were at the time. Don't downplay that sixers team to try n smear Bird. Bird also beat Dr. J, as I recall. They are both all-time greats, and they had great teams, but it was Bird and Magic who saved the NBA. Not Dr. J, not Kareem, or the other greats who were playing at the time. Bird also won rookie of the year, league MVP 3 times in a row, and won the 3 point contest 3 years in a row. It was Bird who kept Magic awake at night. Put some respect on Larry Legends name, he would destroy 99% of today's players because he was a basketball savant, he didn't need the athleticism to torch great players, he was simply smarter than them at the game, and he was good at the game!
@@Patriot2332 Stats don't lie. Bird had stacked teams against DR. J. In Bird's rookie season he went 1-4 in the ECF vs Dr J and Dr. J outplayed him Bird 22.2 ppg 13.8 rebounds 3.6 assts 1.6 steals 1.4 blks Dr. J 25 ppg 8.4 rebs 4.2 assts 2.6 stls 1.4 blks The Celtics were defending champions in 1982 and HEAVY favorites to beat the Sixers in the ECF. They lost in game 7 at the Garden. 'm not saying Larry wasn't great, I'm saying DR.J beat him 2-1 in Eastern Conference Finals.
@@Patriot2332 Again stats don't lie. The NBA NEEDED Dr. J. He was a global superstar playing in the ABA. He literally saved the NBA for Magic and Bird. NBA Finals ratings 1976 Boston vs Phoenix 11.5 1977 DrJ vs Portland 12.7 1978 Washington vs Seatt;e 9.8 1979 Washington vs Seatlle 7.2 (Tape delay) 1980 DrJ vs Magic and Kareem 8.0 (tape Delay( 1981 Bird vs Moses and the Rockets 6.7 (Tape delay) 1982 DrJ vs Magic and Kareem 13.0 1983 Dr.J vas Magic and Kareem 12.3 1984 Magic vs Bird 12.1 If Bird and .Magic saved the NBA how come the ratings went up when Dr. J was in the finals and went down when he wasn't. Dr. J was the superstar, not Magic, Kareem or Bird. That's when the NBA got smart and started promoting Magic and Bird to male them the superstars that Dr.J already was, because DrJ was getting old and was on his way out.
It's like this... There's MJ then Kobe then LeBron.... How can you put Kobe second when it was like watching MJ all over again... He was the remix... LeBron will have the greatest basketball career of all time but MJ is the greatest
This soft ass generation is uncanny. 77-99 Was Basketball. Breath and its a foul today. Real Basketball had bloody noses, broke fingers, come in the paint and get Spanked type shit. Nobody over 6'9 Shot 3 pointers, 7'ft hung out by the paint, Stephen couldn't do 60% of the shit he does. Gerber league today. Infimil players, Similac rules.
I call MJ the GOAT myself, but this is BS in my book. MJ had Hall of Famers on his side, too. Pippen and Rodman are fundamental to most of MJ Rings. And he knows that, too. I dont know how many Larry and Magic had, because I didnt watch them play, but MJ had a lot of help in Pip and D-Rod! I would even mention Horace Grant... Who I think is on Magics list as well, isnt he?
Charles Barkley capping Kobe didn’t struggle his coach didn’t want to play a 17 year old kid that was the second best on the team. Soon as Phil put him in the starting lineup it was over from the time he became a starter name one player better than Kobe at that time on both sides of the ball
U have to take stats out of the conversation. It's all about skill and how u perform when it counts. Jordan could rise to any occasion and Kobe was the same. Jordan edges out Kobe a little. Nobody could hold Jordan and on turn he's gonna stop u on def
Charles Barkley capping Kobe didn’t struggle his coach didn’t want to play a 17 year old kid that was the second best on the team. Soon as Phil put him in the starting lineup it was over from the time he became a starter name one player better than Kobe at that time on both sides of the ball there wasn’t one from 20 years old til he was 32/34 years old. The nba just hated on him that’s why u dont hear his name in the goat debate. People act like just because you have the numbers mean you’re the best not the case it’s context to everything for instance the greatest shooter in the nba sorry to tell y’all but it’s not Curry it’s Deandre Jordan. We don’t call John Stockington the greatest pg of all time he got an assist record that’ll never be broken. Wilt Chamberlain scored a 100points in a real nba game we don’t call him the greatest scorer of all time. So all that numbers don’t lie that’s 🧢 because it’s always context to those numbers like I just explained
50% of his assist would have been considered a pass back in Jordan's day. Lebron passes the ball, the receiver moves half court and dribbles the ball a dozen times, and they still call it assist for Lebron
It's NOT DEBATABLE 😂 JORDAN GOAT, LeBron GOATish. And that's okay. Same pple talking about the LeBron is the GOAT wearing Jordans 😂😂😂😂 STOP 😂😂😂😂😂 Rings 😂😂😂 number based on time in league 😂😂😂 just stop 😂😂😂
But why single that out or make that such a big point as if hadn’t passed Jordan in other things before playing that many more years than Jordan ? As if he dint pass Jordan in scoring with less fga while having thousands of more assists..like he haven’t double Jordan so called unbreakable record with the 10+ streak . As if LeBron is not he only player in history to have a career triple double 41,11k,11k and it’s not even a player with 20k,7k,and 7k ?
People always say that Mj was the greatest. But, Bball is a team game. Jordan never won a ring without Scotty. And, he never beat Bird and the Celtics. He also lost to Detroit. Stats matter! Jordan has the wow factor…but, Wilt, Kareem are my picks. Why didn’t Charles mention who has the most 70, 60, 50, and 40 point games…not Jordan.
You just said it’s a team sport and Wilt wasn’t making the team better. And LeBron fanboys love bringing up Pippen, but ignore the fact that LeBron never wom anything until he joined 2 other top 10 players in their prime, plus other hall of famers. Then left and joined 2 other top players, then left and joined another top 5 player. MJ only needed one player, LeBron needed multiple players to win.
you fruity weirdo. did you just say jordan didn’t win nothing without pippen. by that logic lebron never won anything without wade bosh love irving davis westbrook shaq rose. 1 hall of famer to about 8-9. gtfoh you diddy fanboy
lets not forget Lebron idolized Mj too. I'll always say this. Lebron is a cheat, he systematically put himself in the position to reek the rewards and syphon stats from his teammates. its like playing a video game on easy and then talk sh*t to the one who played it on hard just because your close on stats.
Extra extra le d licks as two raw said those who play the game on the highest level telling u the truth no narratives scripted political debate hypethical stats.no one respect your king what he did done continue to do😅
i was wit barkley until the 30 point shit ….one micheal jordan has neva had a season he avg almost 10 assist a game or alot of triple doubles so to have that as a point is silly cuz we all know who the number one scoring machine was Micheal Jeffrey Jordan also the level of talent is betta now then when mike played mike and roy jones was abov😂 they era nobody skill set was even close
There's more elite three shooters, but to say the talent is better today is just nonsense. If you dropped any number of players from the early 80's to late 90's-early 00's, sans the shorts, they'd wipe the floor with any of the greatest players today. And it would be more fun to watch.
@@lordofgonzo: Three-point shooting is emphasized today, and nobody plays defense! This era is incredibly weak and boring on top of it. Half the guys playing today wouldn’t have made the league in the 1990s.
I get sick of people saying the talent level is better. What players do you have like Magic, Jordan, Mugsy, GP, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Pippen, Clyde, Penny, Shaq, Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, or even Kevin Johnson? You don’t! Okay, Steph is like Abdul Rauf, but Abdul Rauf was playing in an era when guys got knocked out…wound up with their heads split open. You don’t have anybody like the guys I mentioned. You certainly don’t have a Dennis Rodman! There’s no Dominique playing today. Karl Malone would have killed Joker.
Jordan had the best 8 seasons NBA split. LeBron is the ALL TIME GREATEST NBA PLAYER! Jordan era all of those old school dudes would be fouled out playing today
Nope. You’re wrong. The new dudes wouldn’t score, because guys actually played defense in the 1980s and 1990s. And there are at least 15 players I’d rather have on my squad over LeBron!
All you've got are career stat totals and assumptions about the "old school dudes" for your argument. You have to make up excuses to get around everything Jordan has accomplished more than LeBron. LeBron is the goat of longevity and that's it.
I don’t agree with Charles. The bottom line is just because it took LeBron more time to have more thirty point games doesn’t mean LeBron is not a better player. Jordan was about trying to score as many points as he could in the beginning LeBron was trying to make the team better so it make it easier to win. We don’t respect what Lebron is doing, and we probably won’t respect him until he retires the things he is doing is incredible. Lebron isnt a shooting guard LeBron is not the best defensive player in the league. He’s not the best scorer. He’s not the best shooter either. He’s the all-time leading scorer. He’s he’s not a true point guard and he is coming up on number three on the assist list and LeBron is in the top five or six in steals when we consider Scottie Pippen as one of the best defensive small forwards ever.
Actually, Jordan would wait until the second half to heat up. He was about getting guys involved, and he played the PH role for 1/3 of every game. You clearly didn’t watch him. Furthermore, Jordan was an elite defender his whole career. Was LeBron? No! To the contrary, he has been repeatedly lambasted for playing sh!tty D.
Anytime the GOAT conversation is limited to Jordan and Lebron it has no credibility. Jordan was better than Lebron, but he couldn't beat Bird. He didn't beat Magic until Kareem was on life support. "But Bird had players blah blah blah" Dr.J beat Bird twice in the playoffs with no more help than Jordan had, and DrJ was old when he did it.
Larry was a beast. But don't ignore the roster for both teams. If Bird and MJ swapped teams I think the outcome would've been the same - Celtics win. That being said, Bird and Kobe are my 2 favorite players.
@@joshuanuzzo5672 It was easy for Bird to call MJ Jesus because he could then brag that he swept Jesus twice . 6-0 in playoff wins over Jordan. 1-2 against Dr. J's Sixers in Eastern Conference Finals.
Larry bird is definitely on the list higher than LeBron. But it's a lot of players higher than LeBron. You got Karl Malone, Hakeem Olajuan, magic, Dr. J, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, John Stockton, Scottie pippen etc... LeBron is waaaay low on that list
Easier to play today ? Bru it’s a flurry of players from the 90’s mostly bigs and mugsy who make an nba team today or have a career over 5 years ..mugsy at that height and couldn’t jump wouldn’t have a healthy 10+ year career today ..y’all say they took the hand check away today but in the same breath brag about Jordan defense in the 90’s . Well you know Jordan was hand checking 6’4 150lbs shooting guards who had nowhere near the handles guard have today . Can you imagine guarding a Kobe,dwade,t Mac,curry, kyrje and many more without hand checking. And you talking about it’s easier today ? Yea right … foh Charles, not even your style woulda been star caliber eom
Pat MaHomes doesn’t HAVE A CHANCE IN PASSING TOM BECAUSE ITS ONLY ABOUT SUPER BOWLS! Stats don’t matter! LeBron was 6,8-6,9 265 built at 18 Kobe was like Durant he was skinny as F and it’s harder than any of you could imagine to put on muscle and weight when you’re burning 15k calories a day if not more
You saw how a 2nd year player had LaBronze shaking his head and cursing when sed player was checked into the game, cause the Klaw actually played defense..
@Jimmy-fu3lq NAH ISN'T EVIDENCE HE'S NOT. NOW PROVE SOMETHING OTHER THAN RINGS. BELL RUSSELL IS THE GOAT OF RINGS ,NOW TRY AND USE SOMETHING ELSE. YOUR TURN.
@Jimmy-fu3lq YOUR EXCUSE IS LIKE ANY HUMAN AZZ HOLE. IT STINKS! STATS IS LOGIC IN THE NBA SENSE ITS FOUNDATION YET YOU HAVE NO LOGIC! JUST BIGOTED STUPIDITY! AGAIN, LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT BASED ON TRADITIONAL STATS AND METRICS! ✅MATE
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
🥊Clarissa Shields Threatens Remy Ma Again!
ruclips.net/video/qNjpyC1SRAE/видео.html
Jordan signature move Fade Away,
Lebron signature move Flopin with Cry
Yup
Not only was Jordan a facilitator, he was a facilitator when it mattered the most
Averaged 11.4 assists per game in the 1991 Finals
2 years later, averaged 41 ppg in the 1993 Finals
Jordan is untouchable
Give mj 7 more years and no one ever touching his stats period
This should settle it... go watch all the Bulls vs Detroit games posted. If you don't gain a new respect for Jordan with this rivalry, nothing will ever convince you otherwise.
Mj is the greatest basketball player ever, LeBron doesn’t compare to Mj . LeBrons a great player , who’s played for a long time , and has accumulated stats , but it doesn’t make him a greater player than Jordan . I don’t have LeBron in my top 5 .
Couldn't have said it better. Bron is in my top 5 as well but I can't put him above MJ nor Kobe..
Blue, what are you talking about? LeBron had more years and he Ain’t there yet. He needs 35 more games of 30 points. The hate is smoking a cigar at the finishline. The tortoise is dead. Lmao
Does LeBron have more 40 and 50 points games than Jordan also I'm just askin? What's better all them 30pnt games in less seasons or more seasons. MJ didn't set out to break records he set out to win. I used to hate watching my team lose every year he was never my favorite player but I know the greatest it's easy seeing them in their prime. My favorite player is Vince Carter but I still know Jordan is the GOAT it doesn't make any other player less great just to admit MJ is the GOAT it's just giving credit to the all time greatest psycho to ever step foot on the court. It's easy to worry about racking up stats for your legacy but how many can rack up stats for their team like wins or games won. It's harder to will your team to greatness even with a super team it's not easy to win championships. It takes something more than just the best to win a championship it takes determination competitive drive.
Put it this way. Mike did the last dance, then everyone else wanted to do a basketball doc. If that’s not a leader idk what is.
Yup...dont forget starting the shoe craze
MJ is the GOAT without any question, full stop.
@@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast yep. but in my mind the last dance really solidified his goat status. If a far from relevant Mike can just drop a doc (which he didn’t want dropped), and suddenly the world wants to be like Mike again… cmon only legends move like this.
6-0 is just crazy. It’ll never happen again
the fact that all lebron's team mates are choosing MJ over him is crazy, but the top coaches as well? that is crazier!!!! when pat and phil said it, that should be the end of the conversation. and please stop involving lebron on stats. his stats are all accumulated over the years he played, any mediocre player can do that. but to be the best for each season, that is harder to achieve
I've said this before. LeBron is a great, great player who gets the longetivity award. But, those that can't win championships play for stats. And LeBron plays for stats.
There is No Debate Michael Jordan The Greatest The Goat 🐐 Of Basketball Period....!!!!!!
The dumbest shit that people think is fact is this idea Jordan was not a facilitator…..its absurd.
Forrreal...jordan was everything and did all he needed to win
FACTS!
Well he was a "SHOOTING GUARD" his first job was to shoot but he definitely knew when to delegate the role
Most people that say that don’t know that when Jordan filled in at PG, he had 10 triple doubles in 11 games. He could pass very well but the bulls needed him to score more than pass
Jordan is, without question, the best player that's ever walked the earth. I think Barkley is actually a little taller than MJ. I've seen Barkley several times in Vegas. He's about two inches taller than me and I've been measured (by the measure Nazi, my father) at 6'4.25." I saw MJ at a significant distance at a Hornets' game. He looks about 6'5" even. It doesn't really matter but imagine MJ, with his skillset, at 6'8."
Thanks for sharing. All this time i thought Chuck was 6 foot 7.
But yeah MJ's leaping ability makes that little height difference insignificant lol
And don't forget my GOAT Mr 23, set out damn near his whole second season with a broken foot. So take that for wat it is
Its crazy to me how some players have to tiptoe around LeBron not taking bad shots. Like who tf are warching? LeBron has an entire highlight reel of taking nothing BUT bad shots.
1:05 Charles stomach started growling loud af
Facts. Thought it was my stomach at first 😂😂😂
@ 😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Chuck got those lil Darrell glasses 🥂
That's funny. Both acting RT.
You can just tell who’s better by comparing the stories players have about Jordan and LeBron. Everyone has a story about how Jordan was feared. Most players strategy was to be nice to him. Lebron stories are mortal like every other great player.
Blue ain’t too bright. Totoise and hare???? Has nothing to do with the way basketball works. It’s not a 20 year marathon. You win or lose ever year of your career.
MJ spent 11 full years with Bulls and got 6 chips, 2 3 peats, 10 scoring titles, DPOY, 6 FMVP’s, 5 MVP’s, steals titles etc.
LeBron spent 11 years in Cleveland and won one, league manipulated chip for them in 2016. ZERO comparison. ZERO 3 peats, ZERO dynasties etc.
MJ did FAR MORE in much less time than LeBron ever did.
MJ had a 3k point season, LeBron ZERO. MJ had 7 2500+ points a season. Lebron ZERO.
MJ got to 30k points, with only 2 pointers, in 140 less games than LeBron. Only player in history that did that faster is Wilt. He got to 30k only 20 games sooner than MJ. If MJ didn’t break his foot, he would have easily got to 30k points way before Wilt.
Nothing about LeBron is that impressive. He is a stat player. He puts his personal stats ahead of team success, hence his abysmal winning record. He cannot play off ball, horrible ball handling and shooting yet he is goat?
This generation is all feelings, thanks to LeMedia. They hate facts and reality.
MJ got 3 chips in 3 1/2 years. LePills got 4 chips in 22. Only in this generation is the latter better. 🤷♂
LeBron better, you fault his longevity but praise Jordan volume... Talk about a hypocrite... Then downplay the '16 ring which with dirks is the most valuable in NBA history... Jordan 6 against expansion league nba is laughable with his stacked team compared to every finals team he played lol not to mention the league babied Jordan more than anyone in the history of the league
@@codyeble0713 I see you are versed in LeThink. Another graduate from the I Promise schools. One day you read your post sndvrealize how utterly stupid it sounds. All feelings, zero facts.
@@codyeble0713in no way is LeBron better. You trying to down play Jordan’s 6 and talk about stacking teams? Bulls drafted pippen and developed him the. Got a Rodman no one wanted. Lebron had to run away to join top 5 players in the league only to under perform. Then leave them high and dry to join who was arguably the best PG in the league at the time and bring in another top big to win, leave the high and dry again to join a top 5 big in the league again play Gm and get a bunch of washed all stars on his team. Jordan worked to win, LeBron does what I do ok 2k trying to go 82-0
Great video
Mj > LeBron forever 💯
Oh fosho!
not to mention Jordan USA Team beat the crap of the NBA Stars, 8 freaking times!!!!
My problem with the goat talk is, basketball is a 2 way sport. You can’t talk goat status without talking about defense, everyone only want to talk about offensive stats
Thats crazy work to sit there, having never stepped foot on an nba court. And to tell your pops, a former star and a hall of famer, barkley. Nah im know more about ball then the both of you.
The fact that his dad and the guests are all hall of fame, makes it even worse lol
LeBron is not better than Kobe end of story
Agreed
Lebron is not even close to MJ...MJ and Kobe stayed on the same team and dominated. Lebron hopped around looking for a 🏆
Whoever said MJ not the goat dont play the game of basketball
Wilt Chamberlain said Jordan isn't the Goat. He played basketball
@@TheMeefive he's just jealous 😅😅😅
@@TheMeefive My Sister played Basketball, and she says MJ is The Goat.......What's your Point?
@@dwightcurrie8316 The poster said that WHOEVER said that Jordan isn't the GOAT don't play the game of basketball. My point is that some NBA legends do not consider Jordan to be the GOAT so the poster's statement is false. You pointing out that some people who do play basketball consider Jordan to be the GOAT does not negate my statement.
LeBron is the Robert Parrish of the NBA
Barkley glasses on his nose thoe😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
"took a lil bit longer" 7 years is a damn whole career 😂 this kid is annoying asl. U can call anyone the goat..but at least have better reasons/a case...
Yea as if 7 years is a short period of time 😂😂😂
But there is none that can say they had to sit up because of their injuries, you never heard of another player being injured once and from there took everything by storm there is not one … that’s the post
Bird and Magic didn’t struggle. Shaq didn’t struggle. Duncan didn’t struggle. Grant Hill and Penny didn’t struggle. Dr. J didn’t struggle. Hakeem didn’t struggle. DWade didn’t struggle.
Everyone he mentioned came straight from high-school, no college. Mcgrady, kg, kobe
16:00 Facts. Its why I can't give Koby props on his game. Because it was Micheals Game.
What about MJ he took a split and went to he retired and came back and won three more who in the world in heaven in this earth can ever do something like that you too you win three you take a break for a year and a half and then you come back and win three more
Damn shame we never got to witness 8 in a row!
Michael Jordan Had to beat better players before he became the greatest
I don’t get the discussion. Kobe (himself), LeBron (himself), LeBron’s teammates, and 99% of the players that played against MJ and LeBron all say that MJ is the Goat
LeBron called himself the GOAT.
@ You’re literally on the internet. It’s an easy search. LeBron said many of times that he wanted to be like MJ. Almost every ball player did. He wore MJ‘s number. Even Kobe (RIP) changed his number to 24 because of MJ. LeBron made jokes calling himself the Goat, but admitted to wanting to be like MJ. I actually don’t hear anybody saying that they want to be like LeBron. You’re in denial, and it’s ok
what baffles me is that noone speaks about the skill that he had. MJ was on another level than most of players, and they do not want to admit it. I am not even sure why people bring leflop in discussion, because it is literally embarrassing. Leflop, cannot handle the ball, literally. All he does is dunks and that is it. The scope of the game is to shoot the ball. Leflop has no handles, cannot shoot, cannot perform under pressure, cannot defend, cannot dribble, cannot rebound... I mean, you can find a dozen players in the 80s and 90s that are better than leflop in all these aspects? What, he stayed 21 years and probably gets testosterone buffs and roids up every 6 months? What are we even comparing here? You have to be blind and stupid to put Leflop in the same solar system with MJ.
LeBron shooting percentage is gruesome. They hated Russ for his triple doubles. LeBron they praise for stats. He has cumulative stats. Nothing to be ashamed of, LeBron has been better than they hype. A feat, in and of itself.
Penny was in my top 5 favorite players to watch
Biggest what ifs D Rose, T Mac, and Kawhi Leonard because they all had big hype yet struggled with injury fairly early. LaBronze was one of a handful left, D Rose had the top spot until injuries, LaJuice was available most of the time.
What fo you mean "finally" ? It was never a real debate, young geberation just needed to be reminded there was a God.
The media doesnt do it
@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast Yea because it was one of those times where even the people working media are becoming people who never knew the God.
@ thats cap bro...richard jefferson...shannon , nick wright , perkins...they all know.
@@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast I'm not talking about them they know for sure I'm talking about many others, especially people working behind the scenes. The people u named, plus a few others that's about let's say 10 people in alll those rooms, don't forget every US state alone has their own teams and tables where people sit and talk as well, plus the people working behind the scenes there. Not even 10% of the people actually know Jordan, the names u mentioned are always the ones who have to keep reminding people, and there are still people coming with those questions every single time.
@@Mostvaluableplayerpodcast And I'm not even talking about players just yet, imagine so many players always talking about stuff and RARELY do they talk about MJ his stories, and of course why should they when there are other things going on. Plus not everyone watches at the exact time when an MJ story is told either so over a 10 to 20 year period you end up with, full on grown ups who never even seen Jordan play or heard a single story about him, other than having some uncle at the BBQ mention his name and some players mention something, and seen memes of him or whatever. They don't know nothing else but the games they've seen. And that's the same for the new players too, there are NBA players who have been playing for almost 10 years who have never watched Jordan before. Imagine that. They're never gonna talk about him they never knew him, which influences and increases the odds even more of people thinking the GOAT is somebody else.
To say Kobe struggled when he didn’t play is crazy
There’s such thing as a scrimmage match genius
Good video!🤩
Lebron isn’t better then Kobe
Can we at the very least put Dr. J and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the goat conversation
MJ, Bird, and Magic are 1,2,3, LeBron ain't even top 15 in Greatest of all time debate. Yall need to stop the nonsense!
Anybody, who quits on his team the playoffs and in the finals is not worthy to be on the goat list. Especially when that player played in the weakest defensive era in NBA history! He doesn't play on the defensive end, and his shooting average is low outside 3 feet, and he can't shoot free throws. Lequit is way down on that list of greats.
DrJ beat Bird twice in the playoffs and outplayed each time. And he was old when he did it.
@TheMeefive It wasn't just Dr J, that sixers team was stacked with talent, more than the Celtics were at the time. Don't downplay that sixers team to try n smear Bird.
Bird also beat Dr. J, as I recall. They are both all-time greats, and they had great teams, but it was Bird and Magic who saved the NBA. Not Dr. J, not Kareem, or the other greats who were playing at the time.
Bird also won rookie of the year, league MVP 3 times in a row, and won the 3 point contest 3 years in a row. It was Bird who kept Magic awake at night.
Put some respect on Larry Legends name, he would destroy 99% of today's players because he was a basketball savant, he didn't need the athleticism to torch great players, he was simply smarter than them at the game, and he was good at the game!
@@Patriot2332 Stats don't lie. Bird had stacked teams against DR. J. In Bird's rookie season he went 1-4 in the ECF vs Dr J and Dr. J outplayed him
Bird 22.2 ppg 13.8 rebounds 3.6 assts 1.6 steals 1.4 blks
Dr. J 25 ppg 8.4 rebs 4.2 assts 2.6 stls 1.4 blks
The Celtics were defending champions in 1982 and HEAVY favorites to beat the Sixers in the ECF. They lost in game 7 at the Garden. 'm not saying Larry wasn't great, I'm saying DR.J beat him 2-1 in Eastern Conference Finals.
@@Patriot2332 Again stats don't lie. The NBA NEEDED Dr. J. He was a global superstar playing in the ABA. He literally saved the NBA for Magic and Bird.
NBA Finals ratings
1976 Boston vs Phoenix 11.5
1977 DrJ vs Portland 12.7
1978 Washington vs Seatt;e 9.8
1979 Washington vs Seatlle 7.2 (Tape delay)
1980 DrJ vs Magic and Kareem 8.0 (tape Delay(
1981 Bird vs Moses and the Rockets 6.7 (Tape delay)
1982 DrJ vs Magic and Kareem 13.0
1983 Dr.J vas Magic and Kareem 12.3
1984 Magic vs Bird 12.1
If Bird and .Magic saved the NBA how come the ratings went up when Dr. J was in the finals and went down when he wasn't. Dr. J was the superstar, not Magic, Kareem or Bird. That's when the NBA got smart and started promoting Magic and Bird to male them the superstars that Dr.J already was, because DrJ was getting old and was on his way out.
@TheMeefive the 76ers were a talented team
It's like this... There's MJ then Kobe then LeBron.... How can you put Kobe second when it was like watching MJ all over again... He was the remix... LeBron will have the greatest basketball career of all time but MJ is the greatest
This soft ass generation is uncanny. 77-99 Was Basketball. Breath and its a foul today. Real Basketball had bloody noses, broke fingers, come in the paint and get Spanked type shit. Nobody over 6'9 Shot 3 pointers, 7'ft hung out by the paint, Stephen couldn't do 60% of the shit he does. Gerber league today. Infimil players, Similac rules.
Sabonis shot 3’s stfu
the tortoise & the hare/ that made no sense/if the king thought the race was ever, he would retire/ he ain't gettn that goat status, ever/
Y'all need to stop proping le' bum James up to MJ. Mike, Kobe, Dr. J among others are better players and athletes.
Kobe wasn't close to a better athlete. Dr J wasn't a better player, and was a very different kind of athlete.
And I am _not_ a Lebron fan.
I hate to break it to some of you but Bird had All-Stars surrounding him and so did Magic Johnson.
Hall of famers!
I call MJ the GOAT myself, but this is BS in my book.
MJ had Hall of Famers on his side, too.
Pippen and Rodman are fundamental to most of MJ Rings. And he knows that, too.
I dont know how many Larry and Magic had, because I didnt watch them play, but MJ had a lot of help in Pip and D-Rod!
I would even mention Horace Grant... Who I think is on Magics list as well, isnt he?
@@chrisbee9643a young Jordan couldn’t beat birds Celtics…bird played with 5 hall of fame players tho…
@@inFAIMous2.0 well thats 3 more, than MJ had...
Charles Barkley capping Kobe didn’t struggle his coach didn’t want to play a 17 year old kid that was the second best on the team. Soon as Phil put him in the starting lineup it was over from the time he became a starter name one player better than Kobe at that time on both sides of the ball
Bro Charles Barkley was having stomach problems in the video lol you can clearly hear it
Haha
I thought that was my stomach at first 😆
@@zacharcianthurman2187me too i had to rewind like i know i ate today
@@zacharcianthurman2187same 😂😂😂
Charles Kobe played behind two starters no playing time kobe really played 18 years
U have to take stats out of the conversation. It's all about skill and how u perform when it counts. Jordan could rise to any occasion and Kobe was the same. Jordan edges out Kobe a little. Nobody could hold Jordan and on turn he's gonna stop u on def
LeBron has said himself Jordan is the goat so what are we talking bout 😂
Charles Barkley capping Kobe didn’t struggle his coach didn’t want to play a 17 year old kid that was the second best on the team. Soon as Phil put him in the starting lineup it was over from the time he became a starter name one player better than Kobe at that time on both sides of the ball there wasn’t one from 20 years old til he was 32/34 years old. The nba just hated on him that’s why u dont hear his name in the goat debate. People act like just because you have the numbers mean you’re the best not the case it’s context to everything for instance the greatest shooter in the nba sorry to tell y’all but it’s not Curry it’s Deandre Jordan. We don’t call John Stockington the greatest pg of all time he got an assist record that’ll never be broken. Wilt Chamberlain scored a 100points in a real nba game we don’t call him the greatest scorer of all time. So all that numbers don’t lie that’s 🧢 because it’s always context to those numbers like I just explained
G.O.A.T 🐐
Yes DrJ is the GOAT
Combine Kobe (with more athleticism) with Harden (with less flopping) and then multiply it by a hundred. That's Michael Jordan.
Hell naw... Harden handles were other worldly
01:04 Did someone pass gas?
Most points, most assists and most turnovers
And Most cry
Most flops , and most traded teammates . And most fired coaches .
Most missed shots and most turnovers in league history
50% of his assist would have been considered a pass back in Jordan's day.
Lebron passes the ball, the receiver moves half court and dribbles the ball a dozen times, and they still call it assist for Lebron
It's NOT DEBATABLE 😂 JORDAN GOAT, LeBron GOATish. And that's okay. Same pple talking about the LeBron is the GOAT wearing Jordans 😂😂😂😂 STOP 😂😂😂😂😂 Rings 😂😂😂 number based on time in league 😂😂😂 just stop 😂😂😂
D Blade needs to be excluded.....
Why?
But why single that out or make that such a big point as if hadn’t passed Jordan in other things before playing that many more years than Jordan ? As if he dint pass Jordan in scoring with less fga while having thousands of more assists..like he haven’t double Jordan so called unbreakable record with the 10+ streak . As if LeBron is not he only player in history to have a career triple double 41,11k,11k and it’s not even a player with 20k,7k,and 7k ?
Hey blue😅
Are you educated yet😅
People always say that Mj was the greatest. But, Bball is a team game. Jordan never won a ring without Scotty. And, he never beat Bird and the Celtics. He also lost to Detroit. Stats matter! Jordan has the wow factor…but, Wilt, Kareem are my picks. Why didn’t Charles mention who has the most 70, 60, 50, and 40 point games…not Jordan.
You just said it’s a team sport and Wilt wasn’t making the team better. And LeBron fanboys love bringing up Pippen, but ignore the fact that LeBron never wom anything until he joined 2 other top 10 players in their prime, plus other hall of famers. Then left and joined 2 other top players, then left and joined another top 5 player. MJ only needed one player, LeBron needed multiple players to win.
you fruity weirdo. did you just say jordan didn’t win nothing without pippen. by that logic lebron never won anything without wade bosh love irving davis westbrook shaq rose. 1 hall of famer to about 8-9. gtfoh you diddy fanboy
I’m hate this type of argument. No player in any team sport ever wins a ring without the proper coaching and support, plus a little bit of luck!
lets not forget Lebron idolized Mj too. I'll always say this. Lebron is a cheat, he systematically put himself in the position to reek the rewards and syphon stats from his teammates. its like playing a video game on easy and then talk sh*t to the one who played it on hard just because your close on stats.
Stop the draining talk!!! There's only one player thats have the crown. BE LIKE MIKE no need to say more
I hear all of that
Extra extra le d licks as two raw said those who play the game on the highest level telling u the truth no narratives scripted political debate hypethical stats.no one respect your king what he did done continue to do😅
i was wit barkley until the 30 point shit ….one micheal jordan has neva had a season he avg almost 10 assist a game or alot of triple doubles so to have that as a point is silly cuz we all know who the number one scoring machine was Micheal Jeffrey Jordan
also the level of talent is betta now then when mike played
mike and roy jones was abov😂 they era nobody skill set was even close
There's more elite three shooters, but to say the talent is better today is just nonsense. If you dropped any number of players from the early 80's to late 90's-early 00's, sans the shorts, they'd wipe the floor with any of the greatest players today. And it would be more fun to watch.
the talent isn't better, stop it.
Barkley is jealous of MJ, just like Isiah was.
@@lordofgonzo: Three-point shooting is emphasized today, and nobody plays defense! This era is incredibly weak and boring on top of it. Half the guys playing today wouldn’t have made the league in the 1990s.
I get sick of people saying the talent level is better. What players do you have like Magic, Jordan, Mugsy, GP, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Pippen, Clyde, Penny, Shaq, Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, or even Kevin Johnson? You don’t!
Okay, Steph is like Abdul Rauf, but Abdul Rauf was playing in an era when guys got knocked out…wound up with their heads split open.
You don’t have anybody like the guys I mentioned. You certainly don’t have a Dennis Rodman!
There’s no Dominique playing today. Karl Malone would have killed Joker.
Jordan had the best 8 seasons NBA split.
LeBron is the ALL TIME GREATEST NBA PLAYER!
Jordan era all of those old school dudes would be fouled out playing today
Nope. You’re wrong. The new dudes wouldn’t score, because guys actually played defense in the 1980s and 1990s.
And there are at least 15 players I’d rather have on my squad over LeBron!
All you've got are career stat totals and assumptions about the "old school dudes" for your argument. You have to make up excuses to get around everything Jordan has accomplished more than LeBron. LeBron is the goat of longevity and that's it.
I don’t agree with Charles. The bottom line is just because it took LeBron more time to have more thirty point games doesn’t mean LeBron is not a better player. Jordan was about trying to score as many points as he could in the beginning LeBron was trying to make the team better so it make it easier to win. We don’t respect what Lebron is doing, and we probably won’t respect him until he retires the things he is doing is incredible. Lebron isnt a shooting guard LeBron is not the best defensive player in the league. He’s not the best scorer. He’s not the best shooter either. He’s the all-time leading scorer. He’s he’s not a true point guard and he is coming up on number three on the assist list and LeBron is in the top five or six in steals when we consider Scottie Pippen as one of the best defensive small forwards ever.
Actually, Jordan would wait until the second half to heat up. He was about getting guys involved, and he played the PH role for 1/3 of every game. You clearly didn’t watch him.
Furthermore, Jordan was an elite defender his whole career. Was LeBron? No! To the contrary, he has been repeatedly lambasted for playing sh!tty D.
Anytime the GOAT conversation is limited to Jordan and Lebron it has no credibility. Jordan was better than Lebron, but he couldn't beat Bird. He didn't beat Magic until Kareem was on life support.
"But Bird had players blah blah blah" Dr.J beat Bird twice in the playoffs with no more help than Jordan had, and DrJ was old when he did it.
Larry was a beast. But don't ignore the roster for both teams. If Bird and MJ swapped teams I think the outcome would've been the same - Celtics win. That being said, Bird and Kobe are my 2 favorite players.
Bird called MJ Jesus in baseball shows . I see you are just a hater
@@joshuanuzzo5672 It was easy for Bird to call MJ Jesus because he could then brag that he swept Jesus twice . 6-0 in playoff wins over Jordan. 1-2 against Dr. J's Sixers in Eastern Conference Finals.
He is leaps and bounds above all those great players
Larry bird is definitely on the list higher than LeBron. But it's a lot of players higher than LeBron. You got Karl Malone, Hakeem Olajuan, magic, Dr. J, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, John Stockton, Scottie pippen etc... LeBron is waaaay low on that list
Easier to play today ? Bru it’s a flurry of players from the 90’s mostly bigs and mugsy who make an nba team today or have a career over 5 years ..mugsy at that height and couldn’t jump wouldn’t have a healthy 10+ year career today ..y’all say they took the hand check away today but in the same breath brag about Jordan defense in the 90’s . Well you know Jordan was hand checking 6’4 150lbs shooting guards who had nowhere near the handles guard have today . Can you imagine guarding a Kobe,dwade,t Mac,curry, kyrje and many more without hand checking. And you talking about it’s easier today ? Yea right … foh Charles, not even your style woulda been star caliber eom
The real goat list... no.3 MJ no.2 The Worm. No.1 Larry Bird
MJ, Kareem, magic, bird, Kobe, Shaw, Duncan
Dennis Rodman over MJ is blasphemous 😂😂😂
@@inFAIMous2.0: Shaq!
Pat MaHomes doesn’t HAVE A CHANCE IN PASSING TOM BECAUSE ITS ONLY ABOUT SUPER BOWLS! Stats don’t matter!
LeBron was 6,8-6,9 265 built at 18 Kobe was like Durant he was skinny as F and it’s harder than any of you could imagine to put on muscle and weight when you’re burning 15k calories a day if not more
How’s Wade gonna tell his grandkids ? 🥲
Who has ever guarded LeBron wouldnt be guarding MJ! MJ never got a free bucket unless it was a pure breakaway
You saw how a 2nd year player had LaBronze shaking his head and cursing when sed player was checked into the game, cause the Klaw actually played defense..
Yeah, but it makes a difference whether or not you pass them up in a certain amount of time. Who’s the Liegh on the right hand side again.?
LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT BASED ON ( INDIVIDUAL ) STARS ALONE! BILL RUSSELL NAIL THAT RING SHITZ TO THE CROSS SO STOP USING THAT ARGUMENT!
Nah
@Jimmy-fu3lq NAH ISN'T EVIDENCE HE'S NOT. NOW PROVE SOMETHING OTHER THAN RINGS. BELL RUSSELL IS THE GOAT OF RINGS ,NOW TRY AND USE SOMETHING ELSE. YOUR TURN.
@ the context of the nba during Russell’s era is completely different from Jordan or LeBrons
It’s not a relevant metric when comparing championships
@Jimmy-fu3lq YOUR EXCUSE IS LIKE ANY HUMAN AZZ HOLE. IT STINKS! STATS IS LOGIC IN THE NBA SENSE ITS FOUNDATION YET YOU HAVE NO LOGIC! JUST BIGOTED STUPIDITY! AGAIN, LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT BASED ON TRADITIONAL STATS AND METRICS! ✅MATE
LeBron isn’t the GOAT. It has taken him years longer to achieve what Jordan did in 13 years.