I find it ok in small amount and it can be great for correcting timing etc. There’s definitely a lot of variation between the different algos and their uses too. And I know I’m going slightly extreme here. But non-stretching i.e. looping wins every time!
Obvs for super god mode tails on the break: You reach for Renoise or Redux. That allows you non destructively copy a piece of 'air' etc from one part of the break and paste on to the end of any slice and then you can copy reverse copy fade till your hearts content. Also the samplers have a backwards only loop, which can be useful along with the envelopes.
straight to the point video! feeling those ping pong tails as best sauce in breakz, reminds me old breakage / equinox / nebula sound but now we know the precise controls! blessings Fanu! 🙌 my favourite is still fanusamurai - Daylightless > album is a channeling from above 💫✨ most caliber drumfunk that I like to meditate /dance / drive with
Yeah! I was avoiding the choppery on BWS too until my friend Andrew told me about that loop start/end option! If only there was a way to have a custom slicing preset option that'd handle all that for each hit post-chopping (maybe it can be done but I dunno how).
@@fanusamurainot that I'm aware of. While not the same, there is the "slice" stretch algorithm that slices at onsets and allows you to choose ping pong for the tail. To stretch. I've never really used it but after watching your video here it makes me wonder if that could be a very similar method. As long as you set your onsets correctly beforehand. Just instead of slicing to drum machine use that stretching algo without slicing to midi.
Cool Fanu, i remember one of your intense Ableton tutorials like its yesterday. Concerning Bitwig: I wish the "slice to multi sample" option of Bitwig could be used to feed an already existing sampler instance. For live performance this would change the world, because if newly created material can be chopped up into a pre-set-up sampler with diverse Fx on it, this would be huuuge. Sadly, not even live audio material can be recorded into the sampler. And the start and end timing of the sampler cant be midi assigned, only the offset value... Please Bitwig, gimmi that improved sampler and dont forget live artists :)
You've talked about this ping-pong loop technique in other videos and I wondered if you ever used the feature in Recycle that extended the tails of the chops. I imagine it would sound better for some chops and worse for others, but it's definitely a lot less work. Not that I'd want to go back to using Recycle in 2024.
Ah good old Recycle! Man it was so many moons ago I used that. Back in the day I think I even used SCSI connection to send some sounds to my old-ass hardware samplers. TBH I didn’t even know it still exists! The reason I didn’t want to use rx2 files in DAWs like Ableton is IIRC you can’t do editing to them there and they’re not very flexible. So, sorry I can’t comment on this one. I have a faint memory of it sounding slightly artificial (like all timestretching).
I tested the Slice mode with Ping-Pong with the drumloop on that video: it works pretty dang well BUT somehow how the last hit, the crash kick in that drumloop, comes out mega weird, like it sounds like it just loops in the wrong spot OR maybe the looping starts from the beginning. Everything else with that works pretty nice TBH. So maybe a bug or maybe it's very case-specific. But other than that, very promising!
@@fanusamurai Yeah, Slice mode is awesome for drum loops but it could use more parameters and tweaking to avoid situations like the one you described. Anyways, I hope Bitwig devs are paying attention to these details haha.
Ah so you've finally joined the dark side I see! Yes bitwig standard tools are great for the breaks science, and another method you can use that has similar results is to import the break as audio, choose 'slice' mode for the warping algorithm, and then turn the Tail setting to 'ping pong'. At that point you can slow the project BPM right down and re sample , and now you'll have stretched out hits with their transients in tact but lovely long natural releases ready to be reprogrammed. Even quicker than setting correct loops on the Drum Machine.
I tested the Slice mode with Ping-Pong with the drumloop on that video: it works pretty dang well BUT somehow how the last hit, the crash kick in that drumloop, comes out mega weird, like it sounds like it just loops in the wrong spot OR maybe the looping starts from the beginning. Everything else with that works pretty nice TBH. So maybe a bug or maybe it's very case-specific.
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good tip. tbh i NEVER liked timestretching anywhere on any sound for some reason :D
I find it ok in small amount and it can be great for correcting timing etc.
There’s definitely a lot of variation between the different algos and their uses too.
And I know I’m going slightly extreme here.
But non-stretching i.e. looping wins every time!
Obvs for super god mode tails on the break: You reach for Renoise or Redux. That allows you non destructively copy a piece of 'air' etc from one part of the break and paste on to the end of any slice and then you can copy reverse copy fade till your hearts content. Also the samplers have a backwards only loop, which can be useful along with the envelopes.
straight to the point video! feeling those ping pong tails as best sauce in breakz, reminds me old breakage / equinox / nebula sound but now we know the precise controls! blessings Fanu! 🙌
my favourite is still fanusamurai - Daylightless > album is a channeling from above 💫✨ most caliber drumfunk that I like to meditate /dance / drive with
Thank you 😇🙏🏻
I'm Your fan from Japan!! Thank you for your musics and this video!
Looooool that intro is fucking amazing. Hahhaa
I mean I was having a great day!
Wait woa, set loop end option? Game changer. I thought i hated the way bitwig handled setting loop points in the sampler. Awesome
Yeah! I was avoiding the choppery on BWS too until my friend Andrew told me about that loop start/end option! If only there was a way to have a custom slicing preset option that'd handle all that for each hit post-chopping (maybe it can be done but I dunno how).
@@fanusamurainot that I'm aware of.
While not the same, there is the "slice" stretch algorithm that slices at onsets and allows you to choose ping pong for the tail. To stretch. I've never really used it but after watching your video here it makes me wonder if that could be a very similar method. As long as you set your onsets correctly beforehand. Just instead of slicing to drum machine use that stretching algo without slicing to midi.
@@atetraxx yeah I’ve played around with the stretching types and there’s a lot of variation between them…gotta experiment more!
Cool Fanu, i remember one of your intense Ableton tutorials like its yesterday. Concerning Bitwig:
I wish the "slice to multi sample" option of Bitwig could be used to feed an already existing sampler instance. For live performance this would change the world, because if newly created material can be chopped up into a pre-set-up sampler with diverse Fx on it, this would be huuuge.
Sadly, not even live audio material can be recorded into the sampler. And the start and end timing of the sampler cant be midi assigned, only the offset value... Please Bitwig, gimmi that improved sampler and dont forget live artists :)
You've talked about this ping-pong loop technique in other videos and I wondered if you ever used the feature in Recycle that extended the tails of the chops. I imagine it would sound better for some chops and worse for others, but it's definitely a lot less work. Not that I'd want to go back to using Recycle in 2024.
Ah good old Recycle!
Man it was so many moons ago I used that. Back in the day I think I even used SCSI connection to send some sounds to my old-ass hardware samplers.
TBH I didn’t even know it still exists!
The reason I didn’t want to use rx2 files in DAWs like Ableton is IIRC you can’t do editing to them there and they’re not very flexible.
So, sorry I can’t comment on this one.
I have a faint memory of it sounding slightly artificial (like all timestretching).
Nice technique! Have you looked into the "Slice" stretching mode? It automatically does a similar thing with the audio.
I tested the Slice mode with Ping-Pong with the drumloop on that video: it works pretty dang well BUT somehow how the last hit, the crash kick in that drumloop, comes out mega weird, like it sounds like it just loops in the wrong spot OR maybe the looping starts from the beginning.
Everything else with that works pretty nice TBH.
So maybe a bug or maybe it's very case-specific.
But other than that, very promising!
@@fanusamurai Yeah, Slice mode is awesome for drum loops but it could use more parameters and tweaking to avoid situations like the one you described. Anyways, I hope Bitwig devs are paying attention to these details haha.
Fanu, you use SENNHEISER HD 25 for mixing?
I use Audeze LCD-X for mixing and have done that for years. Before that, LCD-2.
Sennheiser for whatever basic stuff that doesnt need good audio.
Ah so you've finally joined the dark side I see! Yes bitwig standard tools are great for the breaks science, and another method you can use that has similar results is to import the break as audio, choose 'slice' mode for the warping algorithm, and then turn the Tail setting to 'ping pong'. At that point you can slow the project BPM right down and re sample , and now you'll have stretched out hits with their transients in tact but lovely long natural releases ready to be reprogrammed. Even quicker than setting correct loops on the Drum Machine.
You’re supposed to just write your loop at a lower BPM, usually 70% of your target.
Then export it to wav and stretch it in a sampler.
Ooh I need to experiment with this…thank you sir!
I tested the Slice mode with Ping-Pong with the drumloop on that video: it works pretty dang well BUT somehow how the last hit, the crash kick in that drumloop, comes out mega weird, like it sounds like it just loops in the wrong spot OR maybe the looping starts from the beginning.
Everything else with that works pretty nice TBH.
So maybe a bug or maybe it's very case-specific.