People can learn to speak Japanese, they will earlier of they werent deceived by existence of lolcowlizers which is actually worse than complete absence of localizing at all
Yeah that what confused me, I’m like why are you telling people to learn another language that would take years to master when you yourself don’t know it.
If you want to understand the woke mindset, you need to watch Bill Burr's 'No Reason to Hit a Woman' skit. Pay particular attention to the segment where he talks about how women argue and you get it. And yes, this applies to their soyboy simps too. Manchildren that have been feminized their whole lives.
What's fascinating to you? Do you have any clue how a dub script is produced? Not a single dub script in existence is written based on Japanese or required the person knowing Japanese.
If these won’t cause Japanese studio to not trust EN Localizers due to how unprofessional and unskilled these localizer companies are, I don’t know what will
This don't reach them because they are not reading twitter in other language. Only if it reach to a group of japanese influencers it can blow up in their domestic social media platforms.
Then i have yo tell you, nothing will. Have you forgotten about vic situation? It was 100X worst than this. Considering what it did to dragon ball and it went to news in japan as well, i dont think this interaction will do anything. Because vic situation did nothing Now i hope i am proven wrong But jp absolutely dont care about any of this.
“Doesnt speak japanese” gets hired as a translator meanwhile more passionate people who deserved the job more without any high ego in their head gets rejected, what kind of parrarel world do we live in
Not siding with her, but she is a voice actor so people give her script and she voice acting with whatever "improv" she feels like shitting that day. Basically she just got hired to voice, not to translate.
@@ha-itsme I agree. She is just a VA feminist, trying to save the world by ad-libbing feminism into her voice lines where her friends tell her how funny and great she is in mocking the men.
I learned Japanese, Im a fully fledged N3, I can read these things natively, took me years and a lot of kanji practice... can I complain now? because its a f*k embarrassment for interpreters and translators everywhere, imagine if medical or engineering translators did these sort of things, people would die, like, actually die because of it, and these people feel its justified because they just dont care about these things the way the fans do? disgusting.
If they didn't brag about how they messed with a lot of the projects, they got most of us, wouldn't know exactly who to blame but their love for attention makes them expose how they cannot do their job properly
Your post reminds me of, I think it was the Swedish "translation" of Dracula, where it took DECADES to be fpund out that it was just an original story sold as a translation. It took so long because, you know, the "translator" DID NOT brag about it! ...And more, if the book was still appreciated then the author actually has some talent, unlike these guys.
Loss of power, presumably. They can't insert woke ideology. Also, the fact Anime now has to use AI instead, show everyone how bad they were at their jobs
@@keungwan5901 fansubs have been doing the best job in that regard since the beginning of time. The fact that AI can do their job better is because those localizer quality is worse than a bull manure.
Like @keungwan5901 said, it's the balance of power. Once the AI is used for every translation, these people will lose the little power they had over the industry and the viewers.
Rather than lucky, she is just dumb. She knows what she did to Vic is criminal, and when her own hypocrisy got exposed, she laid low and got away with it. Here though, she is fully proud and stands behind her misdeeds, and just keeps exposing herself.
Everybody gets caught in the end… when Capone couldn’t be caught on larger charges they got him for tax evasion. Well, this is Marchie’s version of tax evasion.
By the way: for people who are unaware of Marchi, "magic death threats" has always been a part of her playbook, ever since the kickvic days. She'll bring up death threats, but never post them, never show them, and uses "trust me, bro" logic whenever she's asked about them. It's an attention grab she uses to make herself look like a victim on Twitter. I'm fairly certain Jamie uses blockchain, so how are all her detractors sending death threats?
Someone replied to Marchi saying the line changes the context of Lucoa's whole character. Lucoa is supposed to be a sun god dragon who's out of touch with modern society, because back in the time of the Aztecs, when Lucoa was worshipped as a sun god, Aztec society was open to nudity. Lucoa barely understands why she has to cover up and doesn't get why seducing a kid is wrong, she wouldn't comprehend terms like "the patriarchy"
Thats the joke and i think its funny. An ancient dragon knowing and caring about the patriarchy doesnt make sense but its a comedy anime and the comedy aspect is good.
@hmmphd5840 I'd buy that if it was actually set up and paid off with a punchline, like Elma getting way too invested in her office lady job even though by all accounts that work should be beneath her, or like in Devil's a Part-Timer where literal Satan is striving to manage the best damn WcDonald's in town, losing sight of his goals of returning home to continue his conquests of war. In Lucoa's case, the localization comes out of nowhere and is never mentioned again. It'd be as jarring as if she mentioned being mad at K-pop stans literally once ever, no precedent, no follow-up.
If this isn't the definition of "digging your own grave" I don't know what it is Why are they so desperate to convince us that robots would do a better job?
@@JohnDoe-pt7ru Well, Crunchyroll Germany is also making problems, they don't even go to conventions anymore, as they don't want to talk with us fans anymore (better said, their employees have been forbidden to talk with us fans by the higher ups from Sony USA/Crunchyroll USA). Gladly the rest of our anime labels is run by otaku-weebs, who already die in their heart when they have to change something for legal reasons, they would never change it for political reasons.
Americans have this absolute hatred for source material. Look at how they butchered things like Lord of the Rings, or Little Mermaid, or The Witcher, or any other media produced in America that is sourced from someone else's work.
not cultural appropriators, thats taking someone elses culture and making their own, theyre cultural imperialists, supplanting other cultures with theirs because it is "superior", know the difference
If the source material has rape / incest / swearing / bigotry / violence / murder / etc then I still want to read it, because it is a part of it. Even if the author themselves have terrible personality traits, as even horrible people can write good or make a point. What I don't want is for it to be censored because someone thinks it is not appropriate or doesn't fit a 'tone' for whatever audience. The audience themselves should decide this, not the person translating or localizing it. Lastly, there are things that just don't translate well. In-jokes or things specifically cultural that you would need to have lived there to understand. For those I either want a best effort basis, the closest approximation, or at worst I want a footnote telling me to read X to understand it, even if that breaks immersion, but that will allow me to understand the context. What I don't want is your own in-jokes, memes, politics, or other BS that you add to try and fill the gap. How hard is it to understand that when I am consuming foreign media, of any kind, that I specifically imported go out of my way to find as it is not local, that I want the original meanings and context and not someone else's rewrites. It could be any language and any culture, and I would feel exactly the same. This is why the subs / translations / and fan communities have been popular for years, and for far far more than just Japanese language content, but many many others. What value does their rewrites give me? Even if the author is a bigot or worse, I still want to know that. A localizer takes that choice away from me and instead gives me what they think I should want. Who wanted their opinions. Why would I want their rewrites over the original? Answer that.
You say that in jest, but honestly it seems to be the future we are headed towards. Not just in anime localizations either, but across the board.@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116
God, can you imagine if the sorts of people who currently work for Funimation ever played BG3? We'd have to send them an awful lot of pearls to clutch.
One Piece gave them a straight up Buster Call. They were profitable before then. They spent *a lot* of the money dubbing toys and card games to secure those rights... And then the very next year, interest in that whole genre got sunk. _Absolutely murdered them!_ So no, it wasn't exactly the unfaithful translation by itself. Little bit of a shame, because they grabbed stuff *no one else would* and those translations may likely be the only ones ever done. Not much sense subbing/dubbing/airing these shows if the card games are no longer produced, right? The rights will probably be in limbo for years!
Toei forced 4Kids to take OP in a bundle of other stuff they actually WANTED. 4Kids KNEW they wouldn't be able to do OP well considering the content and how 4Kids did things. Buuut they had no choice in the matter if they wanted to save money on the other stuff. Big oof.
So according to them, we have to be able to speak fluent Japanese for our criticisms to hold any validity, yet... turns out some of the people making these changes don't actually speak Japanese themselves. You seriously couldn't make this shit up.
And some of the criticisms are coming from native Japanese speakers, who have English as a second language. Even funnier is that those ESL people know English better than the localizers do.
yes, translators do come out and talk about this every now and then. the seven seas translators say their translations were butchered by seven seas after they had submitted it (and that was confirmed by seven seas, actually, they hired shitty YA novelists to edit the translations), for instance.
Yup, that's basically it. A good localizer would just voice the line that is there, maybe minimally touch it up if the English is a little rusty after being translated
What's amazing about Jamie Marchi is that after writing that Dragon Maid line, at an anime convention panel she had the nerve to say that "I'm a funny person." That script change was only funny to someone inside her political bubble.
To this day I had no idea "localizers" existed. I thought these translations were done by translators - people who understand both languages perfectly + are superbly aware of the context of what they are translating.
Sad thing is that their circle is so tight knit and nepotistic that it doesn't even matter. Until Japanese developers and artists actually learn about this and take action, she will keep doing this while calling herself a victim.
By her and her fellow localizer's logic I'M qualified to do her 'job' and I just translate certain Japanese words, phrases, and attacks from video games and anime as a freaking HOBBY using google translate and other free online translation aid...and the base amount of knowledge I have from doing this for over 5 years...as a HOBBY. She is really shooting herself in the foot and moving up the leg by admitting that her and others like her don't know any Japanese.
@@GinraiPrime666 That's gonna take a freaking miracle to happen, but I do somewhat agree that if those two big names were taken away from the dubbers and localizers at Funimation then yeah...they would start to fold real hard to get that shit back. The two BIGGEST names in anime that even normies know about with little thought needed when asked "What is anime?" being swept away from them would be a big blow indeed.
Before people accuse you of milking this topic, they really gotta understand: If localizers would just shut up and take the L, instead of quadrupling down on their corruption, people like Rev would be talking about other things. It's their hubris and egos that are driving them to unintentionally provide more content for people to cover and mock them with.
@@bottlethrower1544 It's so damaging that it made Budweiser forget how to sell beer, and who it was selling to. Who would have seen that coming 10 years ago?
The model of “patriarchy” doesn’t preclude the involvement of women, to the extent that their actions advance men’s interests. As in, if women “slut shame” other women, and somehow that’s good for men, then it can be part of the patriarchy even if it’s being done by women. Now what’s funny with that specific situation is that slut shaming is very much in the interest of women moreso than men, at least if we’re talking about slut shaming unmarried women, since it allows them to have a good excuse to reduce competition from beautiful women. I say “at least if we’re talking about unmarried women” because for married women, men have an interest in slut shaming those because they presumably don’t want their wife to signal availability to other men, but even there other women still would rather not have to compete with as or more beautiful women for access to or retention of mates. TL;DR : in principle nothing wrong with the idea of women doing something that benefits patriarchy, but hilariously backward in the specific situation of women gossiping about too revealing clothing.
@@nathanjora7627reminds me of that instance in (Florida?) where two young women were reported to the police for wearing a skimpy swimsuit, for sure by a jealous married woman. The whole thing was captured on youtube, pretty funny. The not-so-funny part was that one of them later suffered a near fatal accident while doing acrobatics :/
So does Jamie know that women also often disapprove of what other women are wearing. It's not just men who will disapprove of what someone is wearing in public. Jamie you're telling me you have never been disapproving of someone's looks? I'm calling bs. We all do it in some form. Like you'll see that one man or woman wearing practically nothing and think to yourself "WTF are they wearing?"
@higgsbonbon Yep it breaks the entire jokes punchline about how Tohru remarks that she should just shapeshift into a different body instead which is obviously funny because we know they can shapeshift. But as you said Lucoa is oblivious as hell which is why the relationship between her and the kid work. If she wasn't as oblivious she would pick up more on how the kid feels at times.
oh don't worry, if women disapprove of what other women are wearing, that's just "internalized misogyny" and thus also just part of the patriarchy. how convenient, huh?
I think she's the type of person to see a woman dressed conservatively and attack her for having internalized misogyny rather than slam somebody for wearing too little.
I remember watching something like that happen and the answer was that that woman was also a victim that was brainwashed by the patriarchy and stuff like that so... It always end up in the same men "are bad" thing.
I know that will sound absurd,but Brazil had a similar problem...with South Park of all things(the case didn't get big,since 98% of people in Brazil never watched dub in the first place). Apparently since cartman voice actress holds so much power,she DELIBERATELY changed lines in the panderverse special. People noticed that Cartman didn't say diverse woman but instead non-conforming women,and in the:"put a chick in it and make her lame/gay" sequences it was something along the lines of put a woman and make her empowered. Without even going on how much the others changed. Outside of the US the "lolcowlizers" don't usually ever get called out,because people here don't usually care about cartoons and anime dubs being shit,if they'll just watch it with subs anyway.
She literally just admitted she doesn't speak Japanese, a skill required for her job, meaning she admitted she's unfit to do it. Screenshot it and send it to her employers.
Understanding Japanese isn't localizer's job, they're middlemen. They get the job usually from being a VA (many such cases) and because of nepotism or whatever they'll advance to localizer or even ADR script director for sub or dub in other projects where they don't have a VA role but they'll get their friends in those VA roles. Reminder that large portion of this industry is in Texas (probably Austin if I had to guess).
@@PaulieMcCoy I've studied translation, understanding Japanese is very much a localizer's job. Difference between translator and localizer is that Localizer has to make the text more relatable to the target audience. For example if I was localizing a text from english and it was using some well known cartoon character's name as a nickname for a character, I would likely use our version of winnie the pooh as an 'equivalent' for that name since that's probably the most known cartoon character in my country,
@@The_Yukki From what i understand localization is like this: Tokyo --> Paris Makoto --> Manolo Satou --> John Bento --> Sandwich Gundam --> robot Tsundere --> bitch
@@PaulieMcCoy All that's left of the industry is Funimation at this point, and that is run by Sabat and he basically just gives work to his friends and ass kissers.
You gotta love that their deflection into "learn Japanese" isn't even something that applies to localizers so it's really just a form of poll tax for accurate anime/manga to enjoy.
The funny thing is, her critics didn't even need to be able to speak and understand JP to fully grasp that the "pesky patriarchy" line was all BS. All we needed to do is simply just watch the show, considering Luqoa's character has constantly being portrayed as a shameless airhead, and she also forgot or ignored the fact that she can easily shapeshift just like the other dragons in the series.
That gaslighting, manipulative, liar will never learn. Jamie has an impressive ability to select which reality she experiences; one where she's always morally superior and justified in treating everyone else badly. She and so many others don't deserve the good things they have.
Additionally, Jamie's adaptation changes Tohru's intent. In the original, Tohru dissaproves of Lucoa's body as she tells her to try changing her body next time. Jamie changed it to an affirmation tone as she now approves of Lucoa's body and says that people will beg her to show skin again.
True, the pesky patriarch line didn't just mess Luqoa's character, they pretty much just made Tooru the kind of person who agrees with whatever Luqoa was rambling about, while JP Tooru actually sounds reasonable by reminding Luqoa that she can just shapeshifts herself.
I thought it was feminist jargon on how the patriarchy objectifies women while simultaneously slut-shames them, because apparently men just want to manipulate women into doing whatever we want and not giving them freedom with their bodies, etc. Which reinforces the point that she was obviously changing the dialog wanting to insert some ideological talking points that just sound too unnatural for an anime that was created by Japanese people and not blue haired western women.
You know what, to add some positivity out there, I want to thank every translator, from official to fan, who take pride in their job and give us what we want; reasonable accuracy. You guys are the ones who deserve a raise, primarily from pay of the localisers that should lose their jobs.
I respect good hearted localisers too, changing stuff to make it actually make sense is what a translation team should do. A lot of japanese cannot be directly translated as words may not exist or concepts may not either. Therefore, in order to not confuse readers/watchers then localisation is a good thing. I get hating on certain localisers for just adding shit and changing the meaning for no reason, but theyre needed for a story to get put across properly. I watch dub, always have unless it is god awful or the sub is the oonly thi g out and i want to watch it, and ive never had any issues in the probably 500+ anime ive watched. Localisation can really add to anime, so can direct translation. You need a mix for it to be really great Take this from part 2 of Jojo: Joseph says in the sub "Thank you, Caesar-chan" (or something along those lines) and the dub changed it to "Thank you, Caeserino" which is an absolutely amazing localisation and makes the scene more comedic than it originally was
@@kuyagab4444 Corruptions can affect them as well. IIRC there was this group who translated that Digimon Tamers drama, put huge disclaimers on their subtitles and were very vocal about hating the creator. Not to mention that in Chinese fan translation scene at least, it's (or at least was at some time) pretty common to force memes and shits into the translation, and nobody can say anything about it because they "did it for free".
"Localizers know the language better then you!" "You can't be mad at their work, most localizers don't know Japanese!" Jamie Marchi just proved these people shouldn't even have their jobs and the saddest part is; nothing will be done about it. Again; Imagine you're going in for surgery and you discover your surgeon has never done any surgery. Any form of entertainment is the only industry will the people in charge can spit on the consumer and face zero consequences.
Yep. It got normalized to just shit on the people who make their jobs even possible because they demonized their audience of thinking the wrong things.
I remember when that Dragon Maid clip first came out, and Marchi was bragging about it to everyone who would listen. "I messed up the script on purpose and got away with it teehee." Couldn't wait for karma to hit. Shame it took so long.
6:50 So.. by that logic theese two lines are EXACTLY the same? "Well I dissaprove the holocaust, it was very ineeficient method they used, they should have just stacked people like jenga tower inside those chambers, to save up on gas" and "Well i dissaprove of holocaust, since it was a brutal violation of human rights and morals". Tottaly the same line and logic, since, you know, they both dissaprove of it. Now i get it. Those people on twitter are a different breed alltogether.
something I realized, the whole 'everything NEEDS to be political' crowd tried real hard to take over anime and manga and couldn't because the industry was across the globe and had an entirely different culture as it's basis, so they just took over the method with which it was translated and Localized and totally expected no one to get upset, but they ended up pissing off even people who are normally in their camp because doing this is a deliberate abuse of power and lead to them abusing said power in other ways like all the dumb jokes, and it's hard to argue for something that's blatant corruption and intentional deception unless you have NO integrity what so ever.
Yup. Fans from America, Argentina, Iraq, Italy, Russia... They're trying to do to anime, manga, and LN what they've done to comics, movies, to some extent games... those who "everything NEEDS to be political" If they simply did their job (localizer is a sinecure, given that many don't know Japanese - they're just liberal art people or VAs who didn't get a roll in that particular production or the series isn't being dubbed) they could have cruised on... but nope, couldn't STFU and enjoy the easy life.
@@PaulieMcCoy It seems to be just the US causing all the issues, from voice actors to localisers, to the "fans" constantly complaining about fan service, lolis and literally anything that isn't PG. They won't be happy until anime is the same as US animated content, when the reason it is popular in the west in the first place is because of its differences.
@@noire1001 its because unironically, america is the cultural center of the world, the only thing we export now is culture, its just because of english being a really easy language to translate into, and hollywood pushing everyone else down. also the reason why anime, and manga, is popular in the west is not because its different, well, relatively, it is, but, its not shit, see anime knows what its crowd likes, remember when companies in the west used "pander" to their audience, turns out people like things they like, and they dont like what they dont like, even more so when its forced on them. the fact that i have to say that should give you an idea of out of touch marketing teams with their supposed consumers.
@@nuhrii3449you also export a lot of weapons, from what I recall. And also i think cheese, although you also import a ton of that despite seemingly only eating the fucking horrible plastic cheese singles, but i digress.
I will say, you don’t need to be fluent in Japanese to edit stuff to make it more readable, but you do absolutely need to understand what the original line was, what it meant, and how to interpret it. People like her are not suited to be editors.
This is why piracy is a need in this industry. Fan translations are better than those done by "professionals". After the Seven Seas controversy with Classroom of the Elite I tried to hold some hope for this industry, but it's only going worse and worse.
Speaking of Seven Seas, they're the ones who publish Dragon Maid's manga as well. From what I've heard, it took them several volumes to finally realize that Jigokumeguri, the company Kobayashi works for, shouldn't be localized into something like "Hell Tours" or whatever. Jigokumeguri is the family name of a protagonist of another manga (Ojojojo) by the same mangaka and the company is set up at the end of that series _by that protagonist._
@@BloodrealmX Yes. And if you know that from the beginning, both stories become MUCH more interesting, because it ties two seemingly unrelated stories together. This really got completely lost in the translation, but also shows how shitty a job they do. The translator(s) had obviously not bothered to make themselves familiar with the author's other works.
I was in a spanish team of translators and they picked me for being the corrector because I am from Spain and they were from Chile and Mexico. The spanish differs a lot in the coloquial part so they wanted a totally different kind of spanish to dodge bad localizations. We also had insiders in Japan to help us with the expresions that need to be localizated because they are not in spanish and we wanted to not listen to any english localization/translation because they were too transformative back them. The Crunchyroll era killed a lot of fansubs and it was for the worst... they work fast because they have the script and even them they transform the subtittles too... learning japanese is a multiyear experience so be brave ^^.
As someone who studied japanese for 4 years. These localizers infuriate me. The biggest reason is because they make the argument that somehow translators make the changes that people dont like. Which is FALSE. When you translate something you literally just break the sentence down into its most basic and objective parts, then rearrange it into the format of the language you want and see if it makes sense. If it doesnt, then you either are translating incorrectly, it cannot be translated or you need to change the grammar or noun tense in order to make it make sense. Thats it. Its localizers whom make the big changes that have no objective grounding.
I honestly feel bad for the ones that are doing their jobs as intended. I can see where they might be important, like comedy anime where some jokes may fall flat due to difference in culture, but localizers Jamie is making everyone look bad. The point is to adjust a line while keeping the original context and not doing whatever they feel like.
While I'm not defending this dipstick, localization is a very important thing. Some context is lost to the people that would be the target audience in this(and I've studied/been speaking japanese for over 13 years now mind you). However, an example of good localization would make the joke hit the same way/have the same spirit if that makes sense. A line or two, here and there, isn't going to bother anybody. It's things like this that make people complain about dub and sub.
@@geniusbob sure. Jokes are some things that cant always be translated over to other languages. But at the same time, with how internet culture works. Localization just becomes less and less important. Most people who buy niche japanese media or buy media that is from japan that has heavy japanese culture refrenceses, usually already understand the jokes and stuff, which is why they seek it out.
@@theredknight9314 Localization will always be the most important of translating anything. I have to do it when doing fan stuff for people, but at the very least I attach a little "literally" thing, lest you end up like those terrible old tv-nihon subs. Most of the target audience here does not get japanese culture. They get little bits and assume they do, but they don't. Localization exists for your audience, and the worst part here isn't localization. Most of the people here need that, even if they wont admit it. It's who the intended audience happens to be, and this woman's audience surely isn't anybody here. There's smacking THE single most important part of the process and then there's smacking somebody for being blind to their audience. If you cut out localization dubbing becomes pointless in general, as "anybody that cares can just read subs" which is not too far off, since most of the people making a stink here actually do. Though, being fair, we both know that subs aren't really all that accurate these days either, and are what a "proper" localization should be with no liberties.
@@geniusbob i kinda agree, but also dont. I think we keep everything primarily the same, translate it to english, fix anything that does make linguistic sense and be done. Whats the point of the localization of a foreign product? Thats like taking the Bollywood out of Bollywood films. And if people dont understand it then all that means is that they should just delve even deeper into their hobby and passion to learn more.
@happyphiri4237 Vic Mignoga was the voice actor for Edward Elric, that one bald shinigami from bleach, Qrow Brawnwen, and, around the times the allegations started, Broly the Dragon Ball Super Broly movie. After the movie came out the voice actor for Bulma made r**e allegations towards Vic and certain coworkers of hers joined in one of them being Jamie who was the biggest contributor of false allegations
@@happyphiri4237 basically yeah. He lost his court case about defamation but the courts also ruled that Monica Rial couldn't charge him with SA since that was part of her counter suit. It sucks but that's the way it goes.
The real issue is that a lot of these Twitter people never leave their echo chambers so they actually have no clue that the things they equate to reality are actually just scitzobabble.
I miss when the localizers actually tried to make a fitting or better line that still retain the intent instead of going with very woke and dated topics(especially ones that are leagues outside the intended tone of the scene) that'll aged worst than spoiled milk cooking on a stove top.
Here is my stance on localization. Yes, because of language differences there aren’t direct translations all the time. But, as a localizer your job is to give as close a translation as possible without changing the context.
and generally speaking, i'd prefer the untranslated word or even phrase if it cannot be properly translated. i am not 80, i can acknowledged things exist outside of my immediate understanding and i can learn from context.
Localizer also responsible to "translate" the joke because sometimes a joke in one country isn't same in other country. My fav is SpongeBob mermaid man path of evil joke, it's changed to "devil path" since devil is associated with evil. That one is where localizer do their job
A Localizer is suppose to adapt something that a different culture would find difficult to grasp the concept because of cultural differences and present it in a way that would make sense to a local population. An example of this would be something like proverbs. The Japanese proverb of "The water flows" wouldn't make much sense in context to most English speakers. But if you instead put "Water under the bridge." then the context of what they're saying makes sense. That's the job of a localizer. It's definitely not to insert political or pop culture references into it when there weren't any.
Putting Lucoa's mistranslation aside and "admitting" their message is a reflection of her being pissed off at being told to cover up, Tohru's line is COMPLETELY different. In the manga/sub she kinda agrees with her covering up and doubles down with it telling her to nerf the boobs. In the dub she "jokes" about how all those perverted men will ask her to go back to showing her stuff. Disgusting agenda.
Learning this had me shift from annoyed to FURIOUS! Missing out on an ACTUALLY FUNNY JOKE then what we got in the dub! In the past, we dub watchers have gotten some scenes that the localizers made funnier, many Pokemon examples come to mind, but those times have become few and far between...
It is indeed insulting and demeaning. Not only for the 'fans', but most importantly for the medium itself. It's a prove that they don't really care about the medium. What they care is inserting their ideological agenda and that's it nothing else.
Yep. And the reality is that in Japanese culture showing your cleavage is slutty and trashy regardless of size and is seen as edgy when it's done in fashion subcultures. They can wear a skirt so short that they flash their panties at the slightest breeze and that's only mildly risque and pretty normal, but the same girl will where a shirt with a high neckline and never sleeveless. It's just a different way of looking at sex signaling and aesthetic norms than the West where short skirts are more risque than a sleeveless v neck. She projects so heavily it's insane, as she clearly localizes without doing ANY research into the cultural contexts behind the original work.
this also proves alot of the people in the indstury are all connectinos, nepotism, friends, d suckers.. not people that were passionate.. it all makes sense
And that nepotism network is terrible because its hinders for decades any industry that it manages to consume. AI and other shaking thing need at least so that entitled assholes crumble so on their place something good can arrive
It's been pretty much an open secret, the whole thing with the conspiracy against Vic and the tactics used against him... I'm not sure how many 'favors' Marchi can use to get out of this.
What i like about subtitles is when they translate a line, they have Translator's Notes (short-handed to "T/N:") on screen to explain the context behind certain references and idioms, which I appreciate a lot. Teaches me a lot without watering down the actual line.
That's why you hire trusted professional translators and editors instead of the Twitter monkeys whose expertise is limited by a bunch of fandubs at best.
these all are translators with years of experience , this is what the industry is made up off, actual genuine translators tend to be unable to find work because this is what the industry is run by
Lucoa wasn't even upset that people were telling her to cover up, she just noted that people were constantly telling her that she looks inappropriate and so she tried covering up. They can't even get the context right. Lucoa doesn't care about people looking at her or being inappropriate in general, she just wanted to appease those around her. For gods sake she's constantly getting naked around Shota and her old outfit before the story began was borderline a birthday suit, she does not care, she's just trying to fit in with society.
This. And in Japan, it does not matter how big or small you boobs are, showing your chest at all is seen as very lewd. You can show as much leg as you want, and a skirt so short people just might glimpse your underwear in a light breeze, and that's not seen as inappropriate or slutty... but a v-neck, crop top or sleeveless shirt? That's seen as extremely risque. But Marchi of course didn't care to do even the smallest bit of research into cultural context, despite being the one accusing all her critics of only getting their info about Japan from an anime. Her level of self awareness is so lacking that I'm not sure she counts as truly sentient.
I miss the days of Ted Woolsey and "Woolseyisms." As bad as they could be at least they weren't injecting politics. Just dated cultural references and bad humor.
Jappan didnt They dont give a crap about any of this They only used AI because it was cheaper Thats it There is nothing else involve in this situation, other than karma doing his thing
No wonder Chinese manga and animation have grown so much, though i think korean ones have grown way more, japan is getting behind on anime and manga with each year
@@Solizeus not going to undermine chinese and korean manga and anime but Japan has been killing it for years. I don't really hear about Chinese anime much. Korean anime I hear about them a little. Manwa is killing for sure. Don't get me wrong Chinese animators are beasts, some boruto episode was done by Chinese creators and its absolutely slapping but you don't really hear about them much.
Final Fantasy 7 was translated by one guy with I think a several week deadline. It had mistakes "This guy are sick", understandable with the short deadline but these localizers not even knowing Japanese is sad. They're essentially given a sinecure because a work isn't being dubbed and their main shtick is being a VA but they're friends with other industry people and so they get an easy job / sinecure. Which they use to insert their own petty political or ideological views into works because they don't care / respect the author of the OG work nor the fans.
16:32 Translation: I have no arguments against people who are right so I’m locking this and running away like a coward. And you’re right, if all the actual fans learned the language they’d be out of a job, which I’d be all for.
The whole "learn Japanese" response is peak comedy. Basically says make my job inconsequential by cutting the middle man out, me, and you doing a better and more honest translation.
Just please for the love of god, anime/manga fans, do NOT make the same mistakes that gamers keep making with their hobby turning to crap due to their refusal to gatekeep tourists and blindly consooming from companies who've made it clear that they hate them personally.
@@heywoodjablome2767 I think the majority of anime and manga watchers just watch fansubs anyway. English anime, while certainly not unpopular, isn't the most popular either.
@@heywoodjablome2767 well i don't know about you but some Anime community have gatekeep tourist pretty hard. You know the kind of people that would comment "what the hell is this? Its gross delete it!!". I have seen the community destroyed them
"Just learn Japanese" Well, I mean, I am trying. So thanks for pushing me harder into that so I don't need to wait till it gets (wrongly) "dubbed." If everyone learned the source material then we wouldn't need Funi and their foul employees.
Also love how she passive-voice called that guy asking her questions with exclamation points a death threat. It really lets you know what she means when she says Vic supporters were sending her death threats or the like.
"i DON'T know what a Balance Sheet is, get over it" -accountant "I DONT TOUCH GROSS STUFF, get over it" -plumber "I have no clue how to drive, get over it" -Nascar driver
Nailed it with the hobby thing... No one messes with our hobbies. Our path to escape our everyday dreary or sucky lives. I wonder if she voices Malty in Shield Hero? The we can also call her B in real life.
Naw, that's Faye Mata, amusingly also Aqua. _She's out to corner the useless female market!_ She's played a few other nasty bitches like Rias, Junko, Hex from Jormungand, and the psychic brat from Future Diary, however!
I've said this before but it's absolutely wild how every time localizers attempt to explain themselves they always, and I mean, ALWAYS end up making things so much worse.
Because they're not trying to explain themselves, if they were we'd be like "oh okay well don't do it again" Instead they're actively and openly insulting everyone
It's not really surprising. Generally they have chosen to respond in one of three ways: 1. Strawman the opposition and claim that they are demanding 1:1 translations. To be fair, 1:1 translating would be bad, that's basically MTL. But people are asking for faithful translations. They bring this up literally every time though, as if there's some sort of bizarre ritual we need to perform before we can get into the actual discussion. 2. Admit that they are providing inaccurate translations, but try to deflect from their political motivations by claiming that the original language was written by someone who is either misguided or an active ismphobe, and therefore misrepresenting their works is a good thing. They usually get trashed for this, so the most successful way to deal with it has been: 3. Ignore the topic completely, attempt to shame people into silence on the topic by calling them incels or bigots for expressing a desire for accurate translations, or simply appeal to triviality and argue that they shouldn't care so much about the topic and should just go touch grass or something. Historically 3. has been rather successful, people have just given up, and you can see this happening outside of the localization sphere as well when people get upset about political messaging in western games. But when the topic gets coverage - when the base of fans becomes aware of what is happening - we see things like this. On that note, don't buy anything NISA gets their hands on. Their offices are full of people like Jamie.
@@Claudekrits mesmerisingly twisted how people who really need help and touch grass in every other conversation yell to people that they must get help and touch grass. As morally paniked purist-prostitute. Seems like in their little isolated world complaining about patriarchy IS completely normal, common and neutral way to say "some people dont liked my clothes", and any information from outside world sounds for them as insane ramblings so i guess there is some twitter-grass (nft one?) and when twitter freak demands you to touch grass he actually meant the opposite - become terminally twittered so insane things would seem normal to you
It's because they don't care. They know that they can get away with this, because the average Japanese developers and artists don't know about this, and likely won't for a long time.
@@joshuajefferson3504 He falsely acused a small creator of being a pdfile and sent his fanbase after them and people exposed him on Twitter were he followed loli artists
I never understood hate that tectone keep getting I never played genshin either Until i watched a video from him about people wanting him game end I thought he is loud but i het what he says I watched another vid reacting to asmon failing to pull in hsr, i thought its so funny Then after 5 video later, i asked youtube to never recomend me any of his videos ever again I was losing 99% of my brain function because how stupid all of those 5 videos were
Jamie also was the one who made the infamous out of context line of add GamerGate to Prison School. The original context was Anzu calling out Shingo for staring at her breast. To which Shingo replies that she needs to wear a smaller bra. Jamie put the GamerGate incel line in and she also voiced Anzu, which it makes it worse, just for the hell of it. By the way, she is sleeping with the top execs at Sony so she had COMPLETE control of the translations.
Not like Sony would ever care what a translator does. If it is as good as machine translation and no customer complains it is fine. But if customers complain, it will depend on if the customer has the right politics because they frankly doesn't care about complaints either.
I have never heard of this Jamie and whatever she is done so it is a wtf moment that I never noticed. Probably due to only watching subs. I want to know for the Prison School scene I watched in dub once and don't remember this scene. I looked it up and it is real but do you know of a different dub or did I just missed that part
@@simong2229 It's the episode the the student council let Shingo out but with a curfew on good behavior after selling out the Kiyoshi on his escape plan to meet Chiyo. Shingo met Anzu and they were going on a date to the arcade. Anzu leaned over and Shingo could see her breasy as plain as day because she has a habit lf wear bras bigger than her actual cup size. Anzu called him out for staring while Shingo called her out for wearing bras bigger than her size. The line in the dub was at that point. Little did Shingo know, Anzu was a diversion to make him miss the deadline on his curfew and get him and the other boys expelled. I hope that helps
@@simong2229 It's the episode the the student council let Shingo out but with a curfew on good behavior after selling out the Kiyoshi on his escape plan to meet Chiyo. Shingo met Anzu and they were going on a date to the arcade. Anzu leaned over and Shingo could see her breasy as plain as day because she has a habit lf wear bras bigger than her actual cup size. Anzu called him out for staring while Shingo called her out for wearing bras bigger than her size. The line in the dub was at that point. Little did Shingo know, Anzu was a diversion to make him miss the deadline on his curfew and get him and the other boys expelled. I hope that helps clear things up
She's telling me their script adapters don't know Japanese while in the same breath mocking customers to learn Japanese themselves when they're not satisfied with localizers' work. Make it make sense.
If she hadn't attacked fans, she would come off like some developers that got that told fans to priate their game 'cause their publisher ripped them off anyway
That is disgusting if you don't need to understand the language that you are localizing. Like...how? You would think a company would want reliable translators for bringing something from one culture to another like anime/manga.
Fun thing is, AI technically can't translate Ichigo (Kurosaki)'s name as "Strawberry" since it's written with the kanji for 1 and protect. The gag is that it sounds like Ichigo (Strawberry) but it's not written as a such
@@yotvvan2472 sorry, not my point: AI can be useful, what matter is to not overrely on it. For example, while I think that an accurate ai for translation can be made, I personally prefer translating stuff in person, also because, by personal experience, it can be really fun
@@yotvvan2472 AI/machine translation is the bare minimum bar of quality for any translated work. Due to the nature of language, trained humans will be generally better at it than computers ever could be for the foreseeable future. If the people doing it do it better than a computer can, then swapping over means a loss in quality. In completely practical terms, this quality is the only redeeming factor for a human performing this job. If said humans begin producing work that is of equivalent or worse quality to what a computer could produce, then, in completely practical terms, there is quite literally no reason to keep the humans around. They cost more, work slower, are less reliable, and produce an inferior product.
Im a big fan of Japanese culture so the only localizations i want is just making it so i can understand what is being said, i dont need it sugar coated with western lingo and western culture, if i wanted that i would watch Hollywood
Chainsaw Man was a recent example done right. I watched it both sub and dub as well as reading the manga. I personally don't need an autistically dissected exact word for word translation from the manga or sub, just something that fits and is faithful and good voice acting. Dragon Maid dub just didn't vibe with me personally.
@@qrowthebird7496 Yep I agree, localization definitely includes changing original cultural references to things more relatable to the target LOCAL audience, hence why they've been hired to LOCALIZE the content. But there are definite GREAT localizers and then there's Jamie and her ilk. 😲 What @JakeisSick56 wants is a transcription from Japanese into English with no localization.
In Mexico they used to have to wait for the English translation so we could make our own localization, back in the 90s it was the 4kids version or nothing Thank God for the internet and the massive growth of the animanga industry, now they translate directly from Japanese, and yeah sometimes there are misteps, videogames like final fantasy or fire emblem we're still stuck with the localizer curse, but overall mangas and anime are almost perfectly translated. Like did you know Power from chainsaw man is actually a dude? The demon from ancient era is possessing the girl's body, the person who translated the manga here in Spanish took to Twitter to explain his take, turns out he took his time to research the kanjis in her dialogues and her words didn't match up to the other characters, (she uses a lot the word Knave, among other key words) because her words were more archaic, from another era, usually attached to male soldiers.. that's what a localizer is supposed to do, to love their job and to always try to improve the readers experience, to enrich what the author wrote, not to "fix it for a target audience"
That only applied to series that were handled by 4kids (Pókemon, Yugioh, One Piece) and it wasn't even just the translation, they also aired the episodes with the edits they made, which included the western openings and the censorhip (removing firearms, covering cleavages, etc). But series that weren't under them in the west like Dragonball, Digimon, Sailor Moon and Seiya were not censored and the localization was based the original script.
1:28 turns out because of Jamie, we dub watchers missed out on an EVEN BETTER JOKE!!! I was annoyed at localizers before this, but now Im FURIOUS because who knows what other jokes I've missed out on!!! Back in the day, there were examples of localizers actually succeeding in making what would become iconic scenes or lines that might not have heen thete before. A few Pokemon examples come to mind like frying/drying pan and jelly-filled donuts being my fav 2. Yeah, some jokes from even Pokemon may not translate over, like Team Rocket's Wobbufett saying its name when they bast off. Some light digging resulted in finding the joke that was lost and those scenes becoming quite a bit funnier!
These are the people who destroyed Vic Mignogna's career. I don't even really like his voice acting, but the way he was treated by Funimation and the rest of these feminist trogs was absolutely atrocious.
Ok that note about caring about hobbies, whenever someone says “why do you care so much” it means that they have no argument other than to try to make you feel bad for caring. I want thank all the people who ACTUALLY put their best efforts in providing a good translation (fan or official). Hopefully any vandalizing localizers will be removed from their positions.
I have noticed on some games or anime when characters call someone oniichan, the subs just say the character's name or completely ignore it outright. Obviously the localizers/sub writers hate having a character call someone Big Brother.
This is why I don't support the dub industry or subscribe to any of these outlets; you're not getting the story you want to experience, you're getting what they want you to experience. Glad the machine is coming to give us salvation.
The mistake with anime/manga coming west started with the "Localizer" term that should never have been used. There should have, and always should ONLY be translators.
This is where I will fundamentally disagree, because there is a marked difference in the job for both things. Translation as a skill set can be VERY different from localization. While you can create an accurate translation of a line that appropriately reflects its direct meaning, that doesn't help if a target audience doesn't have the same cultural context for what's being said. Oftentimes localization is finding ways to adapt slang or conveyed information in the original language that isn't carried the same way in another language, as well as to adapt lines to feel natural and match how things are conveyed in the translated language. This is why translation and localization work together because translators will generally have a deeper knowledge of the original language and localization will have a deeper knowledge of the target language. When it comes to information conveyance, this is like why subtitles and closed captions are different things. Closed captions include additional audio-related information for the hearing impaired, whereas subtitles just contain spoken or occasionally written text. Like with closed captions, localization requires a lot of context-specific knowledge about the details of the narrative and the target audience it's being made for, whereas translation doesn't necessarily need to know either of those things in order to perform their job. Be careful about vastly oversimplifying a deeply complex process because you don't understand enough about why _the entire industry operates this way, and this isn't even remotely a facet of anime dub/sub practices or even something exclusive to the West._
I can see where localizers could be important in making lines fit better. We do see situations where a dub is praised for having amazing lines that also don't lose their meaning. However, the issue here are localizers doing whatever the hell they want without regard for the show.
@@PierceArner that's what supplemental translator's notes are for. Besides everyone has 24/7 access to the sum total knowledge of humanity on the internet in a handy-dandy piece of tech they carry in their pocket and if they still can't grok it with the notes there's this little activity called "research".
Imagine fansubbing, knowing the language, translating trying to keep and reflect cultural cues and customs, then video-editing the lines in, and doing it on a shoestring budget, for free, out of passion, and that's called "piracy". Now imagine professional voice-acted localization, not having a clue about the language, not giving a damn about culture, not having to deal with the audio editing, getting paid on a studio's budget, butchering it, and keep being called "professional".
@@aethix1986 well, I'm glad there are still places like YenPress who still love accurate work. We're not trapped in a corner; we just have to stay out of some bad rooms, if you know what I mean.
I never thought I'd see the day where I missed the original localizers whose worst crimes were just hideously butchering japanese names or renaming them from Aoki to Ted.
That burger meme guy really nailed it. Seems their only defense is strawmanning the opposition with garbage like 'u dont like womanz' 'u dont like gai' 'u dum weeb' or just saying 'if u dont like it then learn another language'. It's getting old.
In terms of localizers digging themselves into an even deeper hole, what layer are they in until we reach the core when this controversy reaches its peak?
Honestly, I feel bad for the localizers that are actually doing their job as it was itnended, which is to make stiff lines fit better while keeping the meaning.
Localizers: “If you don’t like it, learn Japanese!”
Also Localizers: “We do not speak Japanese.”
Hmmmm. Rules for thee, not for me, I guess.
People can learn to speak Japanese, they will earlier of they werent deceived by existence of lolcowlizers which is actually worse than complete absence of localizing at all
Then I'll learn Japanese so I can easily insult them with no regrets.
Oy Vey!
THE JEWS FEAR THE SAMURAI!
The very backbone of a hypocrite.
This is why you should learn japanese you can now see just how messed up the Localizers are
“Lmao, criticize us localizers when you don’t know Japanese”
“Most script adapters don’t know Japanese.”
Fascinating.
Yeah that what confused me, I’m like why are you telling people to learn another language that would take years to master when you yourself don’t know it.
If you want to understand the woke mindset, you need to watch Bill Burr's 'No Reason to Hit a Woman' skit. Pay particular attention to the segment where he talks about how women argue and you get it. And yes, this applies to their soyboy simps too. Manchildren that have been feminized their whole lives.
They would rather make up every bullshit excuse imaginable than admit they're wrong, the narcissism is crazy.
What's fascinating to you? Do you have any clue how a dub script is produced? Not a single dub script in existence is written based on Japanese or required the person knowing Japanese.
@@Frozenkex I know. What’s fascinating is the localizers who used the “y’all don’t know Japanese” argument despite this.
If these won’t cause Japanese studio to not trust EN Localizers due to how unprofessional and unskilled these localizer companies are, I don’t know what will
This don't reach them because they are not reading twitter in other language. Only if it reach to a group of japanese influencers it can blow up in their domestic social media platforms.
@@Niper777domestic social media platforms? You mean instagram, tiktok, and RUclips?
Language barrier and contract is probably come to mind on why they won't change a thing until probably a semester or a year
Then i have yo tell you, nothing will.
Have you forgotten about vic situation?
It was 100X worst than this.
Considering what it did to dragon ball and it went to news in japan as well, i dont think this interaction will do anything.
Because vic situation did nothing
Now i hope i am proven wrong
But jp absolutely dont care about any of this.
The Japanese studio probably doesn’t care because the job is already done, and they’re making money either way.
“Doesnt speak japanese” gets hired as a translator meanwhile more passionate people who deserved the job more without any high ego in their head gets rejected, what kind of parrarel world do we live in
Not siding with her, but she is a voice actor so people give her script and she voice acting with whatever "improv" she feels like shitting that day.
Basically she just got hired to voice, not to translate.
@@ha-itsme I agree. She is just a VA feminist, trying to save the world by ad-libbing feminism into her voice lines where her friends tell her how funny and great she is in mocking the men.
@@linusgustafsson2629 yes, don't bring in politics into entertainment that doesn't involve politics.
@@ha-itsme Didn't she admit she wrote at least that Dragon Maid line tho?
Progressive ones. Hire their own diseased ideologues.
I learned Japanese, Im a fully fledged N3, I can read these things natively, took me years and a lot of kanji practice... can I complain now? because its a f*k embarrassment for interpreters and translators everywhere, imagine if medical or engineering translators did these sort of things, people would die, like, actually die because of it, and these people feel its justified because they just dont care about these things the way the fans do? disgusting.
Yes,provided you show reciepts
They are cultural vandals. Why would they care?
N3 lmao
only thing you can read natively is yotsuba lil bro
If they didn't brag about how they messed with a lot of the projects, they got most of us, wouldn't know exactly who to blame but their love for attention makes them expose how they cannot do their job properly
"...but their love for attention makes them expose how they cannot do their job properly"
^exactly this
Yup, all that was left out was the maniacal laughter, "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!" These woke-alizers are mad, I tell ya, mad! (And I don't mean "angry")
These people are narcissists, that's why. They're addicted to attention and social media, they can't help it.
Unnecessary commas are unnecessary.
Your post reminds me of, I think it was the Swedish "translation" of Dracula, where it took DECADES to be fpund out that it was just an original story sold as a translation.
It took so long because, you know, the "translator" DID NOT brag about it!
...And more, if the book was still appreciated then the author actually has some talent, unlike these guys.
I am now confused. if they don't speak Japanese, why are they upset that the AI is doing a job they don't do?
They want money
If they learnt japanese they would get paid more, or fired because the company didn't want to pay that much.
Loss of power, presumably. They can't insert woke ideology.
Also, the fact Anime now has to use AI instead,
show everyone how bad they were at their jobs
@@keungwan5901 fansubs have been doing the best job in that regard since the beginning of time. The fact that AI can do their job better is because those localizer quality is worse than a bull manure.
Like @keungwan5901 said, it's the balance of power. Once the AI is used for every translation, these people will lose the little power they had over the industry and the viewers.
She got lucky when she escaped retribution for the backlash for what she did to Vic, but not so lucky this time.
There's only so much they can get away with before the skeletons from her closet emerge.
Rather than lucky, she is just dumb. She knows what she did to Vic is criminal, and when her own hypocrisy got exposed, she laid low and got away with it. Here though, she is fully proud and stands behind her misdeeds, and just keeps exposing herself.
I hope no one on their side remains in a position where they can alter the works of other authors.
@@davidtimmer596 Jason and the Argonauts style.
Everybody gets caught in the end… when Capone couldn’t be caught on larger charges they got him for tax evasion. Well, this is Marchie’s version of tax evasion.
By the way: for people who are unaware of Marchi, "magic death threats" has always been a part of her playbook, ever since the kickvic days. She'll bring up death threats, but never post them, never show them, and uses "trust me, bro" logic whenever she's asked about them. It's an attention grab she uses to make herself look like a victim on Twitter.
I'm fairly certain Jamie uses blockchain, so how are all her detractors sending death threats?
Jamie Marchi at least hits the 'pathological' level on the old Narcissism scale, with all of the vicious crybully maniplulation that entails
She is. I've been blocked without ever interacting with her.
These are the kind of lunatics who think having a different opinion is equatable to a physical assault, so why wouldn't they call these death threats?
Yep. She uses a block chain.
@@One_Man_Banned
These "people" use blacklists and share them
You follow anyone not approved and you're blocked
Someone replied to Marchi saying the line changes the context of Lucoa's whole character. Lucoa is supposed to be a sun god dragon who's out of touch with modern society, because back in the time of the Aztecs, when Lucoa was worshipped as a sun god, Aztec society was open to nudity. Lucoa barely understands why she has to cover up and doesn't get why seducing a kid is wrong, she wouldn't comprehend terms like "the patriarchy"
Patriarchy for divine god beings would be a joke anyway. Like any men ever were in charge when there were dragons in charge.
Thats the joke and i think its funny. An ancient dragon knowing and caring about the patriarchy doesnt make sense but its a comedy anime and the comedy aspect is good.
@hmmphd5840 I'd buy that if it was actually set up and paid off with a punchline, like Elma getting way too invested in her office lady job even though by all accounts that work should be beneath her, or like in Devil's a Part-Timer where literal Satan is striving to manage the best damn WcDonald's in town, losing sight of his goals of returning home to continue his conquests of war. In Lucoa's case, the localization comes out of nowhere and is never mentioned again. It'd be as jarring as if she mentioned being mad at K-pop stans literally once ever, no precedent, no follow-up.
@@CappuccinoSquid yes, proper setup would have made the joke better like seeing her learn the word patriarchy
@@Debate_Botso you like when people change things? If it’s justified to you, we can change the original language to suit our needs.
If this isn't the definition of "digging your own grave" I don't know what it is
Why are they so desperate to convince us that robots would do a better job?
And as pointed out, it's exclusively an issue with English (American) translators. Spanish, French, German, etc. I never hear problems with.
Its because they're all based in Californian metropolises, which are ground zero for the mind rot.@@JohnDoe-pt7ru
@@JohnDoe-pt7ru ye, i am a brazilian and we never got problems like that in our dub
@@JohnDoe-pt7ru Well, Crunchyroll Germany is also making problems, they don't even go to conventions anymore, as they don't want to talk with us fans anymore (better said, their employees have been forbidden to talk with us fans by the higher ups from Sony USA/Crunchyroll USA). Gladly the rest of our anime labels is run by otaku-weebs, who already die in their heart when they have to change something for legal reasons, they would never change it for political reasons.
you got to learn Japanese
If these localizers respected the source material they wouldn't be having these problems.
and their salaries too
Americans have this absolute hatred for source material. Look at how they butchered things like Lord of the Rings, or Little Mermaid, or The Witcher, or any other media produced in America that is sourced from someone else's work.
@@crosszealkruezfahrerwolfra8787 Politics above all else is their way of thinking.
These arent localizers, theyre cultural appropriators and ideological colonizers
Call them what they hate and show their hypocrisy
*Anti-Nippon Cultural imperialists, the lot of them!* 😡
not cultural appropriators, thats taking someone elses culture and making their own, theyre cultural imperialists, supplanting other cultures with theirs because it is "superior", know the difference
So U.S. people?
Normal US citizens would shrug it off, leftist would burn and scream as if they're vampires under the sun.
Indeed
If the source material has rape / incest / swearing / bigotry / violence / murder / etc then I still want to read it, because it is a part of it. Even if the author themselves have terrible personality traits, as even horrible people can write good or make a point.
What I don't want is for it to be censored because someone thinks it is not appropriate or doesn't fit a 'tone' for whatever audience. The audience themselves should decide this, not the person translating or localizing it.
Lastly, there are things that just don't translate well. In-jokes or things specifically cultural that you would need to have lived there to understand. For those I either want a best effort basis, the closest approximation, or at worst I want a footnote telling me to read X to understand it, even if that breaks immersion, but that will allow me to understand the context.
What I don't want is your own in-jokes, memes, politics, or other BS that you add to try and fill the gap.
How hard is it to understand that when I am consuming foreign media, of any kind, that I specifically imported go out of my way to find as it is not local, that I want the original meanings and context and not someone else's rewrites. It could be any language and any culture, and I would feel exactly the same.
This is why the subs / translations / and fan communities have been popular for years, and for far far more than just Japanese language content, but many many others.
What value does their rewrites give me? Even if the author is a bigot or worse, I still want to know that. A localizer takes that choice away from me and instead gives me what they think I should want. Who wanted their opinions.
Why would I want their rewrites over the original? Answer that.
These people would rewrite mein kampf for a modern audience
You say that in jest, but honestly it seems to be the future we are headed towards. Not just in anime localizations either, but across the board.@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116
God, can you imagine if the sorts of people who currently work for Funimation ever played BG3? We'd have to send them an awful lot of pearls to clutch.
Thank fuck my country is not too heavily influenced by the BurgerAnglosphere
Send them the way of bud light, the tactic worked and did so in a week. We should stop consuming anime until she resigns and this stuff stops.
Anybody remember 4kids? Remember how everyone REALLY hated how completely unfaithful they were? And how they've faded away with time?
Yup
One Piece gave them a straight up Buster Call. They were profitable before then.
They spent *a lot* of the money dubbing toys and card games to secure those rights... And then the very next year, interest in that whole genre got sunk. _Absolutely murdered them!_
So no, it wasn't exactly the unfaithful translation by itself.
Little bit of a shame, because they grabbed stuff *no one else would* and those translations may likely be the only ones ever done.
Not much sense subbing/dubbing/airing these shows if the card games are no longer produced, right? The rights will probably be in limbo for years!
Yep, it's make one piece 4kids better than this.
@@cuterblueloveuwulilathepig3556 Are you having a stroke?
4kids faded because of embezzlement lawsuits. It had nothing to do with localization
Toei forced 4Kids to take OP in a bundle of other stuff they actually WANTED.
4Kids KNEW they wouldn't be able to do OP well considering the content and how 4Kids did things.
Buuut they had no choice in the matter if they wanted to save money on the other stuff. Big oof.
So according to them, we have to be able to speak fluent Japanese for our criticisms to hold any validity, yet... turns out some of the people making these changes don't actually speak Japanese themselves. You seriously couldn't make this shit up.
And some of the criticisms are coming from native Japanese speakers, who have English as a second language. Even funnier is that those ESL people know English better than the localizers do.
So based off Jamies implication. The translators likely made an accurate translation, and she decided to change the line while localizing it?
If I were her, I would’ve just used the accurate translation instead of localizing the whole thing.
Yes, she did
yes, translators do come out and talk about this every now and then. the seven seas translators say their translations were butchered by seven seas after they had submitted it (and that was confirmed by seven seas, actually, they hired shitty YA novelists to edit the translations), for instance.
@@comyuse9103 man, that's disgusting
Yup, that's basically it.
A good localizer would just voice the line that is there, maybe minimally touch it up if the English is a little rusty after being translated
What's amazing about Jamie Marchi is that after writing that Dragon Maid line, at an anime convention panel she had the nerve to say that "I'm a funny person." That script change was only funny to someone inside her political bubble.
She lied twice in 3 words.
"funny person" was her localisation for "clown"
This is Working Designs all over again. Just saying.
Women are funny
@@shen5533biggest lie in history
They want to be victims so bad. I'm getting second hand embarrassment
To this day I had no idea "localizers" existed. I thought these translations were done by translators - people who understand both languages perfectly + are superbly aware of the context of what they are translating.
this woman just cant stop. Every time she tweets she just comes off as unhinged and delusional. She makes it worse every time she opens her mouth.
Sad thing is that their circle is so tight knit and nepotistic that it doesn't even matter. Until Japanese developers and artists actually learn about this and take action, she will keep doing this while calling herself a victim.
By her and her fellow localizer's logic I'M qualified to do her 'job' and I just translate certain Japanese words, phrases, and attacks from video games and anime as a freaking HOBBY using google translate and other free online translation aid...and the base amount of knowledge I have from doing this for over 5 years...as a HOBBY. She is really shooting herself in the foot and moving up the leg by admitting that her and others like her don't know any Japanese.
They keep a digging that hole deeper and deeper.
All it will take is for Toei to take away Dragonball and One Piece from Funimation. That happens and they will fold like paper.
@@GinraiPrime666 That's gonna take a freaking miracle to happen, but I do somewhat agree that if those two big names were taken away from the dubbers and localizers at Funimation then yeah...they would start to fold real hard to get that shit back. The two BIGGEST names in anime that even normies know about with little thought needed when asked "What is anime?" being swept away from them would be a big blow indeed.
Before people accuse you of milking this topic, they really gotta understand:
If localizers would just shut up and take the L, instead of quadrupling down on their corruption, people like Rev would be talking about other things.
It's their hubris and egos that are driving them to unintentionally provide more content for people to cover and mock them with.
No, not milking it enough imho.
I am not into manga. But I find this topic very instructive to how deep and damaging the woke mind virus is
Last video I thought he was milking it, then I saw a reddit post complaining about him. Now I'm ok with it, make them cry.
@@bottlethrower1544 It's so damaging that it made Budweiser forget how to sell beer, and who it was selling to. Who would have seen that coming 10 years ago?
@@crowe6961 it's so bad that they forgot the basics of business: Knowing your customer base
@@HachuneMiku01 Death cult
She’s going scorched earth now. She’s trying hard to keep her job, but she’s only making AI the better option.
Funny she thinks only men will dissaprove of what women are wearing when THE ORIGINAL JOKE IS WOMEN GOSSIPING ABOUT LUCOA'S CLOTHES
The model of “patriarchy” doesn’t preclude the involvement of women, to the extent that their actions advance men’s interests.
As in, if women “slut shame” other women, and somehow that’s good for men, then it can be part of the patriarchy even if it’s being done by women.
Now what’s funny with that specific situation is that slut shaming is very much in the interest of women moreso than men, at least if we’re talking about slut shaming unmarried women, since it allows them to have a good excuse to reduce competition from beautiful women.
I say “at least if we’re talking about unmarried women” because for married women, men have an interest in slut shaming those because they presumably don’t want their wife to signal availability to other men, but even there other women still would rather not have to compete with as or more beautiful women for access to or retention of mates.
TL;DR : in principle nothing wrong with the idea of women doing something that benefits patriarchy, but hilariously backward in the specific situation of women gossiping about too revealing clothing.
@@nathanjora7627reminds me of that instance in (Florida?) where two young women were reported to the police for wearing a skimpy swimsuit, for sure by a jealous married woman. The whole thing was captured on youtube, pretty funny. The not-so-funny part was that one of them later suffered a near fatal accident while doing acrobatics :/
Literally just admitted to being unqualified for her job
So does Jamie know that women also often disapprove of what other women are wearing. It's not just men who will disapprove of what someone is wearing in public. Jamie you're telling me you have never been disapproving of someone's looks? I'm calling bs. We all do it in some form. Like you'll see that one man or woman wearing practically nothing and think to yourself "WTF are they wearing?"
@higgsbonbon Yep it breaks the entire jokes punchline about how Tohru remarks that she should just shapeshift into a different body instead which is obviously funny because we know they can shapeshift. But as you said Lucoa is oblivious as hell which is why the relationship between her and the kid work. If she wasn't as oblivious she would pick up more on how the kid feels at times.
oh don't worry, if women disapprove of what other women are wearing, that's just "internalized misogyny" and thus also just part of the patriarchy. how convenient, huh?
I think she's the type of person to see a woman dressed conservatively and attack her for having internalized misogyny rather than slam somebody for wearing too little.
I remember watching something like that happen and the answer was that that woman was also a victim that was brainwashed by the patriarchy and stuff like that so... It always end up in the same men "are bad" thing.
I know that will sound absurd,but Brazil had a similar problem...with South Park of all things(the case didn't get big,since 98% of people in Brazil never watched dub in the first place). Apparently since cartman voice actress holds so much power,she DELIBERATELY changed lines in the panderverse special. People noticed that Cartman didn't say diverse woman but instead non-conforming women,and in the:"put a chick in it and make her lame/gay" sequences it was something along the lines of put a woman and make her empowered. Without even going on how much the others changed. Outside of the US the "lolcowlizers" don't usually ever get called out,because people here don't usually care about cartoons and anime dubs being shit,if they'll just watch it with subs anyway.
She literally just admitted she doesn't speak Japanese, a skill required for her job, meaning she admitted she's unfit to do it. Screenshot it and send it to her employers.
Understanding Japanese isn't localizer's job, they're middlemen. They get the job usually from being a VA (many such cases) and because of nepotism or whatever they'll advance to localizer or even ADR script director for sub or dub in other projects where they don't have a VA role but they'll get their friends in those VA roles. Reminder that large portion of this industry is in Texas (probably Austin if I had to guess).
@@PaulieMcCoy I've studied translation, understanding Japanese is very much a localizer's job. Difference between translator and localizer is that Localizer has to make the text more relatable to the target audience. For example if I was localizing a text from english and it was using some well known cartoon character's name as a nickname for a character, I would likely use our version of winnie the pooh as an 'equivalent' for that name since that's probably the most known cartoon character in my country,
@@The_Yukki From what i understand localization is like this:
Tokyo --> Paris
Makoto --> Manolo
Satou --> John
Bento --> Sandwich
Gundam --> robot
Tsundere --> bitch
It's not a skill required for her job. She isn't a translator.
@@PaulieMcCoy All that's left of the industry is Funimation at this point, and that is run by Sabat and he basically just gives work to his friends and ass kissers.
You gotta love that their deflection into "learn Japanese" isn't even something that applies to localizers so it's really just a form of poll tax for accurate anime/manga to enjoy.
The funny thing is, her critics didn't even need to be able to speak and understand JP to fully grasp that the "pesky patriarchy" line was all BS. All we needed to do is simply just watch the show, considering Luqoa's character has constantly being portrayed as a shameless airhead, and she also forgot or ignored the fact that she can easily shapeshift just like the other dragons in the series.
That gaslighting, manipulative, liar will never learn. Jamie has an impressive ability to select which reality she experiences; one where she's always morally superior and justified in treating everyone else badly.
She and so many others don't deserve the good things they have.
So the FREAKING ADMIT the whole "ooh learn Japanese" shtick was a projected cope from they themselves who can't speak it.
From victim to blame shifting to zero accountability Got to love when you catch the villain😂
They are so loathesome
Or they are villains by themselves
...women
@@NowioFel men does the samething too
@@dreameva1400yes but not as much as women do it.
Additionally, Jamie's adaptation changes Tohru's intent. In the original, Tohru dissaproves of Lucoa's body as she tells her to try changing her body next time. Jamie changed it to an affirmation tone as she now approves of Lucoa's body and says that people will beg her to show skin again.
True, the pesky patriarch line didn't just mess Luqoa's character, they pretty much just made Tooru the kind of person who agrees with whatever Luqoa was rambling about, while JP Tooru actually sounds reasonable by reminding Luqoa that she can just shapeshifts herself.
I thought it was feminist jargon on how the patriarchy objectifies women while simultaneously slut-shames them, because apparently men just want to manipulate women into doing whatever we want and not giving them freedom with their bodies, etc.
Which reinforces the point that she was obviously changing the dialog wanting to insert some ideological talking points that just sound too unnatural for an anime that was created by Japanese people and not blue haired western women.
You know what, to add some positivity out there, I want to thank every translator, from official to fan, who take pride in their job and give us what we want; reasonable accuracy. You guys are the ones who deserve a raise, primarily from pay of the localisers that should lose their jobs.
Nah. Those doing fansubs for hobby or passion are the ones who should be having the localizers job.
I respect good hearted localisers too, changing stuff to make it actually make sense is what a translation team should do. A lot of japanese cannot be directly translated as words may not exist or concepts may not either. Therefore, in order to not confuse readers/watchers then localisation is a good thing. I get hating on certain localisers for just adding shit and changing the meaning for no reason, but theyre needed for a story to get put across properly.
I watch dub, always have unless it is god awful or the sub is the oonly thi g out and i want to watch it, and ive never had any issues in the probably 500+ anime ive watched. Localisation can really add to anime, so can direct translation. You need a mix for it to be really great
Take this from part 2 of Jojo: Joseph says in the sub "Thank you, Caesar-chan" (or something along those lines) and the dub changed it to "Thank you, Caeserino" which is an absolutely amazing localisation and makes the scene more comedic than it originally was
@@kuyagab4444 Corruptions can affect them as well. IIRC there was this group who translated that Digimon Tamers drama, put huge disclaimers on their subtitles and were very vocal about hating the creator.
Not to mention that in Chinese fan translation scene at least, it's (or at least was at some time) pretty common to force memes and shits into the translation, and nobody can say anything about it because they "did it for free".
@@kuyagab4444 Though good thing is it's still a free market so if people don't like something one group does other groups can fix it.
@@kuyagab4444 that's what they meant as well
It’s wild how they can be so openly and proudly unqualified for their job
"Localizers know the language better then you!"
"You can't be mad at their work, most localizers don't know Japanese!"
Jamie Marchi just proved these people shouldn't even have their jobs and the saddest part is; nothing will be done about it.
Again; Imagine you're going in for surgery and you discover your surgeon has never done any surgery. Any form of entertainment is the only industry will the people in charge can spit on the consumer and face zero consequences.
Ironically there have been causes of fraud with surgery
Those people did better jobs
Yep. It got normalized to just shit on the people who make their jobs even possible because they demonized their audience of thinking the wrong things.
"Nothing will be done about it"? Something IS being done about it since AI will replace these hacks who don't deserve their job soon.
@@wargamesmaster and...that's an improvement to you?
@@nekromorg Of course, since awful people (some of which don't even understand the language they are supposed to work with) will lose their job.
I remember when that Dragon Maid clip first came out, and Marchi was bragging about it to everyone who would listen. "I messed up the script on purpose and got away with it teehee." Couldn't wait for karma to hit. Shame it took so long.
It took so long but it hit basicaly alot of these people.
I am 90% convinced that Jamie is a South Park character who somehow came to life
Finally found someone worse than Eric Cartman 🤣
@@TheGreatSalsaMan I was about to say the same thing, worse than Eric Cartman or even worse than PC Principal.
I will never forgive jamie and Monica for what they did to Vic
Agree.
What the continue to do to this day
6:50 So.. by that logic theese two lines are EXACTLY the same?
"Well I dissaprove the holocaust, it was very ineeficient method they used, they should have just stacked people like jenga tower inside those chambers, to save up on gas" and "Well i dissaprove of holocaust, since it was a brutal violation of human rights and morals".
Tottaly the same line and logic, since, you know, they both dissaprove of it. Now i get it.
Those people on twitter are a different breed alltogether.
something I realized, the whole 'everything NEEDS to be political' crowd tried real hard to take over anime and manga and couldn't because the industry was across the globe and had an entirely different culture as it's basis, so they just took over the method with which it was translated and Localized and totally expected no one to get upset, but they ended up pissing off even people who are normally in their camp because doing this is a deliberate abuse of power and lead to them abusing said power in other ways like all the dumb jokes, and it's hard to argue for something that's blatant corruption and intentional deception unless you have NO integrity what so ever.
Yup. Fans from America, Argentina, Iraq, Italy, Russia... They're trying to do to anime, manga, and LN what they've done to comics, movies, to some extent games... those who "everything NEEDS to be political" If they simply did their job (localizer is a sinecure, given that many don't know Japanese - they're just liberal art people or VAs who didn't get a roll in that particular production or the series isn't being dubbed) they could have cruised on... but nope, couldn't STFU and enjoy the easy life.
Something straight out of a communist playbook.
@@PaulieMcCoy It seems to be just the US causing all the issues, from voice actors to localisers, to the "fans" constantly complaining about fan service, lolis and literally anything that isn't PG. They won't be happy until anime is the same as US animated content, when the reason it is popular in the west in the first place is because of its differences.
@@noire1001 its because unironically, america is the cultural center of the world, the only thing we export now is culture, its just because of english being a really easy language to translate into, and hollywood pushing everyone else down.
also the reason why anime, and manga, is popular in the west is not because its different, well, relatively, it is, but, its not shit, see anime knows what its crowd likes, remember when companies in the west used "pander" to their audience, turns out people like things they like, and they dont like what they dont like, even more so when its forced on them. the fact that i have to say that should give you an idea of out of touch marketing teams with their supposed consumers.
@@nuhrii3449you also export a lot of weapons, from what I recall. And also i think cheese, although you also import a ton of that despite seemingly only eating the fucking horrible plastic cheese singles, but i digress.
I will say, you don’t need to be fluent in Japanese to edit stuff to make it more readable, but you do absolutely need to understand what the original line was, what it meant, and how to interpret it.
People like her are not suited to be editors.
May Jamie and all these crap localizers have a very unemployed 2024
Don't feel sad about them since like Jamie said, her next "career" will be reading hate comments on TikTok... and nothing else.
This is why piracy is a need in this industry. Fan translations are better than those done by "professionals". After the Seven Seas controversy with Classroom of the Elite I tried to hold some hope for this industry, but it's only going worse and worse.
Speaking of Seven Seas, they're the ones who publish Dragon Maid's manga as well. From what I've heard, it took them several volumes to finally realize that Jigokumeguri, the company Kobayashi works for, shouldn't be localized into something like "Hell Tours" or whatever. Jigokumeguri is the family name of a protagonist of another manga (Ojojojo) by the same mangaka and the company is set up at the end of that series _by that protagonist._
@@BloodrealmX Yes. And if you know that from the beginning, both stories become MUCH more interesting, because it ties two seemingly unrelated stories together. This really got completely lost in the translation, but also shows how shitty a job they do. The translator(s) had obviously not bothered to make themselves familiar with the author's other works.
Yeah so true, l just download anime on dezember of 2023.
I was in a spanish team of translators and they picked me for being the corrector because I am from Spain and they were from Chile and Mexico. The spanish differs a lot in the coloquial part so they wanted a totally different kind of spanish to dodge bad localizations. We also had insiders in Japan to help us with the expresions that need to be localizated because they are not in spanish and we wanted to not listen to any english localization/translation because they were too transformative back them.
The Crunchyroll era killed a lot of fansubs and it was for the worst... they work fast because they have the script and even them they transform the subtittles too... learning japanese is a multiyear experience so be brave ^^.
As someone who studied japanese for 4 years. These localizers infuriate me.
The biggest reason is because they make the argument that somehow translators make the changes that people dont like. Which is FALSE.
When you translate something you literally just break the sentence down into its most basic and objective parts, then rearrange it into the format of the language you want and see if it makes sense.
If it doesnt, then you either are translating incorrectly, it cannot be translated or you need to change the grammar or noun tense in order to make it make sense.
Thats it.
Its localizers whom make the big changes that have no objective grounding.
I honestly feel bad for the ones that are doing their jobs as intended. I can see where they might be important, like comedy anime where some jokes may fall flat due to difference in culture, but localizers Jamie is making everyone look bad. The point is to adjust a line while keeping the original context and not doing whatever they feel like.
While I'm not defending this dipstick, localization is a very important thing. Some context is lost to the people that would be the target audience in this(and I've studied/been speaking japanese for over 13 years now mind you). However, an example of good localization would make the joke hit the same way/have the same spirit if that makes sense. A line or two, here and there, isn't going to bother anybody.
It's things like this that make people complain about dub and sub.
@@geniusbob sure. Jokes are some things that cant always be translated over to other languages.
But at the same time, with how internet culture works. Localization just becomes less and less important.
Most people who buy niche japanese media or buy media that is from japan that has heavy japanese culture refrenceses, usually already understand the jokes and stuff, which is why they seek it out.
@@theredknight9314 Localization will always be the most important of translating anything. I have to do it when doing fan stuff for people, but at the very least I attach a little "literally" thing, lest you end up like those terrible old tv-nihon subs.
Most of the target audience here does not get japanese culture. They get little bits and assume they do, but they don't. Localization exists for your audience, and the worst part here isn't localization. Most of the people here need that, even if they wont admit it.
It's who the intended audience happens to be, and this woman's audience surely isn't anybody here. There's smacking THE single most important part of the process and then there's smacking somebody for being blind to their audience.
If you cut out localization dubbing becomes pointless in general, as "anybody that cares can just read subs" which is not too far off, since most of the people making a stink here actually do.
Though, being fair, we both know that subs aren't really all that accurate these days either, and are what a "proper" localization should be with no liberties.
@@geniusbob i kinda agree, but also dont.
I think we keep everything primarily the same, translate it to english, fix anything that does make linguistic sense and be done.
Whats the point of the localization of a foreign product? Thats like taking the Bollywood out of Bollywood films.
And if people dont understand it then all that means is that they should just delve even deeper into their hobby and passion to learn more.
I already have carried over grudges from the vic drama so jamie having a melt down is gratifying to say the least.
Can you please explain what she did to this vic person
@happyphiri4237 Vic Mignoga was the voice actor for Edward Elric, that one bald shinigami from bleach, Qrow Brawnwen, and, around the times the allegations started, Broly the Dragon Ball Super Broly movie. After the movie came out the voice actor for Bulma made r**e allegations towards Vic and certain coworkers of hers joined in one of them being Jamie who was the biggest contributor of false allegations
@@bman296 holy shit so she lied
Practically ruining his career and his life since those allegations were proven false???
@@happyphiri4237 basically yeah. He lost his court case about defamation but the courts also ruled that Monica Rial couldn't charge him with SA since that was part of her counter suit. It sucks but that's the way it goes.
@@bman296 wait Monica rial
Does she voice Bulma??
Man why are ppl like this though
No wonder this jamie woman responded with I have a vagina
The real issue is that a lot of these Twitter people never leave their echo chambers so they actually have no clue that the things they equate to reality are actually just scitzobabble.
I miss when the localizers actually tried to make a fitting or better line that still retain the intent instead of going with very woke and dated topics(especially ones that are leagues outside the intended tone of the scene) that'll aged worst than spoiled milk cooking on a stove top.
Exactly. That's how localizing is SUPPOSED TO WORK.
The woke mind virus is infecting anime !
@@jack1235ify among various other places of media but still we need a vaccine to this or at least a really healing surgical cut of this woke cancer
Here is my stance on localization. Yes, because of language differences there aren’t direct translations all the time. But, as a localizer your job is to give as close a translation as possible without changing the context.
and generally speaking, i'd prefer the untranslated word or even phrase if it cannot be properly translated. i am not 80, i can acknowledged things exist outside of my immediate understanding and i can learn from context.
Localizer also responsible to "translate" the joke because sometimes a joke in one country isn't same in other country.
My fav is SpongeBob mermaid man path of evil joke, it's changed to "devil path" since devil is associated with evil.
That one is where localizer do their job
A Localizer is suppose to adapt something that a different culture would find difficult to grasp the concept because of cultural differences and present it in a way that would make sense to a local population.
An example of this would be something like proverbs. The Japanese proverb of "The water flows" wouldn't make much sense in context to most English speakers. But if you instead put "Water under the bridge." then the context of what they're saying makes sense.
That's the job of a localizer.
It's definitely not to insert political or pop culture references into it when there weren't any.
@@Takerial sure, but they are absolutely not to change the context for political leanings outside the artists intent.
@@ReigoVassal sure, but they are not to insert their own political beliefs outside the original artist
Putting Lucoa's mistranslation aside and "admitting" their message is a reflection of her being pissed off at being told to cover up, Tohru's line is COMPLETELY different. In the manga/sub she kinda agrees with her covering up and doubles down with it telling her to nerf the boobs. In the dub she "jokes" about how all those perverted men will ask her to go back to showing her stuff. Disgusting agenda.
Learning this had me shift from annoyed to FURIOUS! Missing out on an ACTUALLY FUNNY JOKE then what we got in the dub!
In the past, we dub watchers have gotten some scenes that the localizers made funnier, many Pokemon examples come to mind, but those times have become few and far between...
Yeah they killed a funny joke in the dub version on top of inserting radical feminist ideology.
It is indeed insulting and demeaning.
Not only for the 'fans', but most importantly for the medium itself.
It's a prove that they don't really care about the medium. What they care is inserting their ideological agenda and that's it nothing else.
Yep. And the reality is that in Japanese culture showing your cleavage is slutty and trashy regardless of size and is seen as edgy when it's done in fashion subcultures. They can wear a skirt so short that they flash their panties at the slightest breeze and that's only mildly risque and pretty normal, but the same girl will where a shirt with a high neckline and never sleeveless. It's just a different way of looking at sex signaling and aesthetic norms than the West where short skirts are more risque than a sleeveless v neck. She projects so heavily it's insane, as she clearly localizes without doing ANY research into the cultural contexts behind the original work.
this also proves alot of the people in the indstury are all connectinos, nepotism, friends, d suckers..
not people that were passionate.. it all makes sense
And that nepotism network is terrible because its hinders for decades any industry that it manages to consume. AI and other shaking thing need at least so that entitled assholes crumble so on their place something good can arrive
It's been pretty much an open secret, the whole thing with the conspiracy against Vic and the tactics used against him... I'm not sure how many 'favors' Marchi can use to get out of this.
To the surprise of absolutely no one Mother's basement sides with localizers.
What i like about subtitles is when they translate a line, they have Translator's Notes (short-handed to "T/N:") on screen to explain the context behind certain references and idioms, which I appreciate a lot. Teaches me a lot without watering down the actual line.
That's why you hire trusted professional translators and editors instead of the Twitter monkeys whose expertise is limited by a bunch of fandubs at best.
Hey, now! That's insulting to fandubs (many of which are done with great respect for the original language)! 😆
these all are translators with years of experience , this is what the industry is made up off, actual genuine translators tend to be unable to find work because this is what the industry is run by
Thank god Monolithsoft put Xenoblade games in British voices with respected translations to English
The fan translators are starting to look like the better option, ironically. We might just be going back to the old ways.
Youre literally watching channel of someone who doesnt do research outside of twitter. BTW Jamie Marchi wrote the script of Panty and Stocking
Lucoa wasn't even upset that people were telling her to cover up, she just noted that people were constantly telling her that she looks inappropriate and so she tried covering up. They can't even get the context right. Lucoa doesn't care about people looking at her or being inappropriate in general, she just wanted to appease those around her. For gods sake she's constantly getting naked around Shota and her old outfit before the story began was borderline a birthday suit, she does not care, she's just trying to fit in with society.
She is not lucoa she just gives her a voice lucoa can have any voice so long it fits her
This. And in Japan, it does not matter how big or small you boobs are, showing your chest at all is seen as very lewd. You can show as much leg as you want, and a skirt so short people just might glimpse your underwear in a light breeze, and that's not seen as inappropriate or slutty... but a v-neck, crop top or sleeveless shirt? That's seen as extremely risque. But Marchi of course didn't care to do even the smallest bit of research into cultural context, despite being the one accusing all her critics of only getting their info about Japan from an anime. Her level of self awareness is so lacking that I'm not sure she counts as truly sentient.
Western locanlizers have been sabotaging rhe Anime industry for years, glad to see Japan finally take notice and do something about it.
I miss the days of Ted Woolsey and "Woolseyisms." As bad as they could be at least they weren't injecting politics. Just dated cultural references and bad humor.
Jappan didnt
They dont give a crap about any of this
They only used AI because it was cheaper
Thats it
There is nothing else involve in this situation, other than karma doing his thing
No wonder Chinese manga and animation have grown so much, though i think korean ones have grown way more, japan is getting behind on anime and manga with each year
@@Solizeus not going to undermine chinese and korean manga and anime but Japan has been killing it for years. I don't really hear about Chinese anime much. Korean anime I hear about them a little. Manwa is killing for sure. Don't get me wrong Chinese animators are beasts, some boruto episode was done by Chinese creators and its absolutely slapping but you don't really hear about them much.
they have ruined it for decades pretty much since the start
Send localizers to a restaurant with chefs who don't know how to cook. If they complain just stare at them and say y'all have same issue.
Its crazy that doing your job well is so controversial for these people.
Final Fantasy 7 was translated by one guy with I think a several week deadline. It had mistakes "This guy are sick", understandable with the short deadline but these localizers not even knowing Japanese is sad. They're essentially given a sinecure because a work isn't being dubbed and their main shtick is being a VA but they're friends with other industry people and so they get an easy job / sinecure. Which they use to insert their own petty political or ideological views into works because they don't care / respect the author of the OG work nor the fans.
16:32 Translation: I have no arguments against people who are right so I’m locking this and running away like a coward.
And you’re right, if all the actual fans learned the language they’d be out of a job, which I’d be all for.
The whole "learn Japanese" response is peak comedy. Basically says make my job inconsequential by cutting the middle man out, me, and you doing a better and more honest translation.
"If you don't like my politics don't buy my books!" "Why is no-one buying my books?"
"Learn Japanese"
You first , Jamie.
If Jamie wants money, she should get a refund from her plastic surgeon. They seriously fucked up.
It seems every woman who gets plastic surgery ends up looking like Palpatine.
She looks exactly the way you expect her to look
shots were fired
@@bottlethrower1544 makes me think that's exactly what she was going for
@@AOT_HxH95😂😂😂
This is the reason anime and manga piracy will never die. The pirated versions have more accurate translations than licensed works.
14:41 "if these guys spent even a fraction of the time learning japanese"
actually that is exactly what fansubers do
Asmongold discovering this just recently is how we as anime fans are the actual minorities, race and sex disregarded.
Just please for the love of god, anime/manga fans, do NOT make the same mistakes that gamers keep making with their hobby turning to crap due to their refusal to gatekeep tourists and blindly consooming from companies who've made it clear that they hate them personally.
@@heywoodjablome2767 I think the majority of anime and manga watchers just watch fansubs anyway. English anime, while certainly not unpopular, isn't the most popular either.
@@heywoodjablome2767 Have you already forgotten 2013? We tried. We didn't get any support. They've infiltrated fucking everywhere, including media.
@@heywoodjablome2767 well i don't know about you but some Anime community have gatekeep tourist pretty hard. You know the kind of people that would comment "what the hell is this? Its gross delete it!!". I have seen the community destroyed them
@@theunknowman12 Good
"Just learn Japanese" Well, I mean, I am trying. So thanks for pushing me harder into that so I don't need to wait till it gets (wrongly) "dubbed." If everyone learned the source material then we wouldn't need Funi and their foul employees.
Apparently, you don't even need to speak the language to be a localizer. You're already overqualified for the job just for actually trying. 😅
Also love how she passive-voice called that guy asking her questions with exclamation points a death threat.
It really lets you know what she means when she says Vic supporters were sending her death threats or the like.
"i DON'T know what a Balance Sheet is, get over it" -accountant
"I DONT TOUCH GROSS STUFF, get over it" -plumber
"I have no clue how to drive, get over it" -Nascar driver
Nailed it with the hobby thing... No one messes with our hobbies. Our path to escape our everyday dreary or sucky lives. I wonder if she voices Malty in Shield Hero? The we can also call her B in real life.
Naw, that's Faye Mata, amusingly also Aqua. _She's out to corner the useless female market!_
She's played a few other nasty bitches like Rias, Junko, Hex from Jormungand, and the psychic brat from Future Diary, however!
I've said this before but it's absolutely wild how every time localizers attempt to explain themselves they always, and I mean, ALWAYS end up making things so much worse.
Because they're not trying to explain themselves, if they were we'd be like "oh okay well don't do it again"
Instead they're actively and openly insulting everyone
It's not really surprising. Generally they have chosen to respond in one of three ways:
1. Strawman the opposition and claim that they are demanding 1:1 translations. To be fair, 1:1 translating would be bad, that's basically MTL. But people are asking for faithful translations. They bring this up literally every time though, as if there's some sort of bizarre ritual we need to perform before we can get into the actual discussion.
2. Admit that they are providing inaccurate translations, but try to deflect from their political motivations by claiming that the original language was written by someone who is either misguided or an active ismphobe, and therefore misrepresenting their works is a good thing. They usually get trashed for this, so the most successful way to deal with it has been:
3. Ignore the topic completely, attempt to shame people into silence on the topic by calling them incels or bigots for expressing a desire for accurate translations, or simply appeal to triviality and argue that they shouldn't care so much about the topic and should just go touch grass or something.
Historically 3. has been rather successful, people have just given up, and you can see this happening outside of the localization sphere as well when people get upset about political messaging in western games. But when the topic gets coverage - when the base of fans becomes aware of what is happening - we see things like this.
On that note, don't buy anything NISA gets their hands on. Their offices are full of people like Jamie.
@@Claudekrits mesmerisingly twisted how people who really need help and touch grass in every other conversation yell to people that they must get help and touch grass. As morally paniked purist-prostitute.
Seems like in their little isolated world complaining about patriarchy IS completely normal, common and neutral way to say "some people dont liked my clothes", and any information from outside world sounds for them as insane ramblings
so i guess there is some twitter-grass (nft one?) and when twitter freak demands you to touch grass he actually meant the opposite - become terminally twittered so insane things would seem normal to you
It's because they don't care. They know that they can get away with this, because the average Japanese developers and artists don't know about this, and likely won't for a long time.
Once again requesting Rev to look into Tectone's Loli meltdown
Is he getting triggered over fictional characters again ? 😂😂😂
@@joshuajefferson3504 He falsely acused a small creator of being a pdfile and sent his fanbase after them and people exposed him on Twitter were he followed loli artists
@@joshuajefferson3504the funny thing is that he immediately unfollowed bunch of artists the moment people point it out lmao
Oh now what has he done???
I never understood hate that tectone keep getting
I never played genshin either
Until i watched a video from him about people wanting him game end
I thought he is loud but i het what he says
I watched another vid reacting to asmon failing to pull in hsr, i thought its so funny
Then after 5 video later, i asked youtube to never recomend me any of his videos ever again
I was losing 99% of my brain function because how stupid all of those 5 videos were
I dare say she makes the most infamous of internet lolcows look sane.
Im sorry but no
@@clawsthewolf89Sorry but yes.
Jamie really is the gift that keeps on giving the more she talks the more she exposes herself. What a day to start the new year.
"Knuckle dragging crybabies" Uh-huh, go ahead, keep projecting
Localizers are just wow.
The woke rot is so deep here. But I think this mind disease is widespread throughout the popular culture.
@@bottlethrower1544it’s quite sad tbh.
"This is a cult and I'm tired of pretending it's not"
In my country the voice over team in movie has some additional voice but still fun and in the contents.
But these localizers have doomed themselves.
Remove God and something else takes His place. It really is a religion.@higgsbonbon
Jamie also was the one who made the infamous out of context line of add GamerGate to Prison School. The original context was Anzu calling out Shingo for staring at her breast. To which Shingo replies that she needs to wear a smaller bra. Jamie put the GamerGate incel line in and she also voiced Anzu, which it makes it worse, just for the hell of it. By the way, she is sleeping with the top execs at Sony so she had COMPLETE control of the translations.
She and many others have done "favors", it's a staple of the industry. They railroaded Vic for sadistic pleasure & profit.
Not like Sony would ever care what a translator does. If it is as good as machine translation and no customer complains it is fine.
But if customers complain, it will depend on if the customer has the right politics because they frankly doesn't care about complaints either.
I have never heard of this Jamie and whatever she is done so it is a wtf moment that I never noticed. Probably due to only watching subs. I want to know for the Prison School scene I watched in dub once and don't remember this scene. I looked it up and it is real but do you know of a different dub or did I just missed that part
@@simong2229 It's the episode the the student council let Shingo out but with a curfew on good behavior after selling out the Kiyoshi on his escape plan to meet Chiyo. Shingo met Anzu and they were going on a date to the arcade. Anzu leaned over and Shingo could see her breasy as plain as day because she has a habit lf wear bras bigger than her actual cup size. Anzu called him out for staring while Shingo called her out for wearing bras bigger than her size. The line in the dub was at that point. Little did Shingo know, Anzu was a diversion to make him miss the deadline on his curfew and get him and the other boys expelled. I hope that helps
@@simong2229 It's the episode the the student council let Shingo out but with a curfew on good behavior after selling out the Kiyoshi on his escape plan to meet Chiyo. Shingo met Anzu and they were going on a date to the arcade. Anzu leaned over and Shingo could see her breasy as plain as day because she has a habit lf wear bras bigger than her actual cup size. Anzu called him out for staring while Shingo called her out for wearing bras bigger than her size. The line in the dub was at that point. Little did Shingo know, Anzu was a diversion to make him miss the deadline on his curfew and get him and the other boys expelled. I hope that helps clear things up
She's telling me their script adapters don't know Japanese while in the same breath mocking customers to learn Japanese themselves when they're not satisfied with localizers' work.
Make it make sense.
If she hadn't attacked fans, she would come off like some developers that got that told fans to priate their game 'cause their publisher ripped them off anyway
That is disgusting if you don't need to understand the language that you are localizing. Like...how? You would think a company would want reliable translators for bringing something from one culture to another like anime/manga.
Fun thing is, AI technically can't translate Ichigo (Kurosaki)'s name as "Strawberry" since it's written with the kanji for 1 and protect. The gag is that it sounds like Ichigo (Strawberry) but it's not written as a such
Nice to see the Japanese also like names like Shryke and Victor Fries.
yea ai wont help us.
@@yotvvan2472 sorry, not my point: AI can be useful, what matter is to not overrely on it. For example, while I think that an accurate ai for translation can be made, I personally prefer translating stuff in person, also because, by personal experience, it can be really fun
@@yotvvan2472 AI/machine translation is the bare minimum bar of quality for any translated work. Due to the nature of language, trained humans will be generally better at it than computers ever could be for the foreseeable future. If the people doing it do it better than a computer can, then swapping over means a loss in quality. In completely practical terms, this quality is the only redeeming factor for a human performing this job.
If said humans begin producing work that is of equivalent or worse quality to what a computer could produce, then, in completely practical terms, there is quite literally no reason to keep the humans around. They cost more, work slower, are less reliable, and produce an inferior product.
Im a big fan of Japanese culture so the only localizations i want is just making it so i can understand what is being said, i dont need it sugar coated with western lingo and western culture, if i wanted that i would watch Hollywood
So you want a translation?
Watch 4kids one piece, it's a mind changer
Chainsaw Man was a recent example done right. I watched it both sub and dub as well as reading the manga. I personally don't need an autistically dissected exact word for word translation from the manga or sub, just something that fits and is faithful and good voice acting. Dragon Maid dub just didn't vibe with me personally.
@@qrowthebird7496 pretty much
@@qrowthebird7496 Yep I agree, localization definitely includes changing original cultural references to things more relatable to the target LOCAL audience, hence why they've been hired to LOCALIZE the content. But there are definite GREAT localizers and then there's Jamie and her ilk. 😲
What @JakeisSick56 wants is a transcription from Japanese into English with no localization.
I played that Fire Emblem game and I thought the four blank pages were funny but now that I know that I miss so much dialogue I'm a little pissed
In Mexico they used to have to wait for the English translation so we could make our own localization, back in the 90s it was the 4kids version or nothing
Thank God for the internet and the massive growth of the animanga industry, now they translate directly from Japanese, and yeah sometimes there are misteps, videogames like final fantasy or fire emblem we're still stuck with the localizer curse, but overall mangas and anime are almost perfectly translated.
Like did you know Power from chainsaw man is actually a dude? The demon from ancient era is possessing the girl's body, the person who translated the manga here in Spanish took to Twitter to explain his take, turns out he took his time to research the kanjis in her dialogues and her words didn't match up to the other characters, (she uses a lot the word Knave, among other key words) because her words were more archaic, from another era, usually attached to male soldiers.. that's what a localizer is supposed to do, to love their job and to always try to improve the readers experience, to enrich what the author wrote, not to "fix it for a target audience"
That only applied to series that were handled by 4kids (Pókemon, Yugioh, One Piece) and it wasn't even just the translation, they also aired the episodes with the edits they made, which included the western openings and the censorhip (removing firearms, covering cleavages, etc).
But series that weren't under them in the west like Dragonball, Digimon, Sailor Moon and Seiya were not censored and the localization was based the original script.
1:28 turns out because of Jamie, we dub watchers missed out on an EVEN BETTER JOKE!!! I was annoyed at localizers before this, but now Im FURIOUS because who knows what other jokes I've missed out on!!!
Back in the day, there were examples of localizers actually succeeding in making what would become iconic scenes or lines that might not have heen thete before. A few Pokemon examples come to mind like frying/drying pan and jelly-filled donuts being my fav 2. Yeah, some jokes from even Pokemon may not translate over, like Team Rocket's Wobbufett saying its name when they bast off. Some light digging resulted in finding the joke that was lost and those scenes becoming quite a bit funnier!
the entirety of what is so iconic of the yu yu hakusho anime comes down to the dub. the japanese is dry and humorless
These localizers should make us apologize to the dubbers from 4Kids
4kids dub was at least entertaining in a guilty pleasure way.
@@1beatcher true
@@1beatcher4kids is still bad for vandalizing the source material, though.
@@LIGHTANGEL_EX ture, but I still find funny how much they had to water down anime for kids.
people realizing localization is basically the same as a modern day adaptation....
please keep a spotlight on these localization issues
These are the people who destroyed Vic Mignogna's career. I don't even really like his voice acting, but the way he was treated by Funimation and the rest of these feminist trogs was absolutely atrocious.
Ok that note about caring about hobbies, whenever someone says “why do you care so much” it means that they have no argument other than to try to make you feel bad for caring.
I want thank all the people who ACTUALLY put their best efforts in providing a good translation (fan or official). Hopefully any vandalizing localizers will be removed from their positions.
I have noticed on some games or anime when characters call someone oniichan, the subs just say the character's name or completely ignore it outright. Obviously the localizers/sub writers hate having a character call someone Big Brother.
The only reason they got away with it this long is that the anime studio heads barely speak English.
This is why I don't support the dub industry or subscribe to any of these outlets; you're not getting the story you want to experience, you're getting what they want you to experience. Glad the machine is coming to give us salvation.
Adeptus Mechanicus come to give us salvation...
to be fair sometimes it works well. yu yu hakusho was drastically improved in the dub
The mistake with anime/manga coming west started with the "Localizer" term that should never have been used. There should have, and always should ONLY be translators.
Absolutely correct.
This is where I will fundamentally disagree, because there is a marked difference in the job for both things.
Translation as a skill set can be VERY different from localization. While you can create an accurate translation of a line that appropriately reflects its direct meaning, that doesn't help if a target audience doesn't have the same cultural context for what's being said.
Oftentimes localization is finding ways to adapt slang or conveyed information in the original language that isn't carried the same way in another language, as well as to adapt lines to feel natural and match how things are conveyed in the translated language.
This is why translation and localization work together because translators will generally have a deeper knowledge of the original language and localization will have a deeper knowledge of the target language.
When it comes to information conveyance, this is like why subtitles and closed captions are different things. Closed captions include additional audio-related information for the hearing impaired, whereas subtitles just contain spoken or occasionally written text.
Like with closed captions, localization requires a lot of context-specific knowledge about the details of the narrative and the target audience it's being made for, whereas translation doesn't necessarily need to know either of those things in order to perform their job.
Be careful about vastly oversimplifying a deeply complex process because you don't understand enough about why _the entire industry operates this way, and this isn't even remotely a facet of anime dub/sub practices or even something exclusive to the West._
I can see where localizers could be important in making lines fit better. We do see situations where a dub is praised for having amazing lines that also don't lose their meaning. However, the issue here are localizers doing whatever the hell they want without regard for the show.
@@PierceArner that's what supplemental translator's notes are for. Besides everyone has 24/7 access to the sum total knowledge of humanity on the internet in a handy-dandy piece of tech they carry in their pocket and if they still can't grok it with the notes there's this little activity called "research".
Why i felt like your explanation can be oversimplified as "western audiences are dumb so they need localizer" XD
We are not done with you, Jamie. We remember the KickVic movement.
Imagine fansubbing, knowing the language, translating trying to keep and reflect cultural cues and customs, then video-editing the lines in, and doing it on a shoestring budget, for free, out of passion, and that's called "piracy". Now imagine professional voice-acted localization, not having a clue about the language, not giving a damn about culture, not having to deal with the audio editing, getting paid on a studio's budget, butchering it, and keep being called "professional".
HOW. ARE THEY NOT. *FIRED?!?*
I HAVE A VAGINA!
Because the issue is systemic. People like Marchi aren't the exception, they're the norm at places like Funimation.
@@aethix1986 well, I'm glad there are still places like YenPress who still love accurate work.
We're not trapped in a corner; we just have to stay out of some bad rooms, if you know what I mean.
I never thought I'd see the day where I missed the original localizers whose worst crimes were just hideously butchering japanese names or renaming them from Aoki to Ted.
She seriously needs a long break from Twitter. I won't feel sorry if Jamie and her 32k followers were to get replaced or fired.
No no no. Rev can spin her tin cans into gold
14:16 fujomoder/meryl is completely batshit btw. his entire argument is "erm learn japanese" like that stops the terrible job that localisers do.
That burger meme guy really nailed it. Seems their only defense is strawmanning the opposition with garbage like 'u dont like womanz' 'u dont like gai' 'u dum weeb' or just saying 'if u dont like it then learn another language'. It's getting old.
In terms of localizers digging themselves into an even deeper hole, what layer are they in until we reach the core when this controversy reaches its peak?
Honestly, I feel bad for the localizers that are actually doing their job as it was itnended, which is to make stiff lines fit better while keeping the meaning.