How Coffee Brewing Makes Better Vegetable Stock
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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Развлечения
James swinging carrots around & getting mad at Gordon Ramsey made my day
Yes! I love the angry gesturing with carrots!
I'm with James, I want everything in grams, these non-units are useless.
H O W B I G I S A C A R R O T G O R D O N
@@JohannesSchr I want this on a t shirt 🤣
@@Caspian1234 “give me the grams Ramsey” would be a great slogan or tshirt
I just imagine james grinding carrots into a paste and putting them in a v60
I'm kinda disappointed he didn't
I don't have a juicer, but make stock every couple of weeks from leftover veg that we freeze. I do have a blender, so I might try blend the veg and run it through a coffee filter to get the pulp out. I foresee a long, slow drawdown...
Now I want him to make carrot espresso.
@@j2a9c8k7 Use a large cloth filter, and if it gets too slow, just press with your hands and you should get something.
@@gabrielhidasy I think you're right. Like how you'd make DIY oat milk.
In my French home-cook culture, you either make stock out of leftovers or trimmings then discard the solid part at the end, or you make stock from normal ingredients that you eat afterwards (together or separately). It's either a zero-waste solution, or a "one stone two hits" solution. And we definitely vary the veggies cut size depending on what we are aiming for. And very often, we don't just want a tasty liquid, we also want the solid parts to still be flavorfull (and you might also not want the texture to be too soft). For example, in a meat stew, you usually want a balance between the stock and the meat/veg bits. If you cut them small, the tastier the stock but bland the cuts. If you really go too far in the cut size, the solid parts will not even remain whole and you will end up with a messy mushy washy liquid that isn't really pleasant. Keeping the cuts fairly sized allows to have a nice tasty stock but still some tasty bits of meat and veggies with a bit of firmness and texture.
All good points, except if my goal is stock, I’m going to use up the flavor in the meat, bones, veg, etc. I always toss them and put fresh ones in the stock after it’s made if I actually want to eat them.
@@jvallas this^
The materials used to make stock should be devoid of almost all nutritional value
This ^
Italian here, if my nonna saw me throw away the solid part of the stock she would disown me
@@XDinky I get that. I have trouble tossing food. But when it’s lost all taste, it’s more like throwing away old cardboard.
W-what... It's not like cardboard, you csn just mince your meat and vegs and make some meatballs with some spices, eggs, tomato sauce, whatever!
And then there's me who freezes their veggie scraps from cooking and makes a big batch of stock whenever the bag gets full. You never get the same flavour twice but it makes great use of stuff that would either get thrown out or composted right away.
THIS. My vegetable stocks are always from leftover vegetable parts. I've never bought ingredients for a stock because they are the result of when I hit maximum storage capacity of leftover bits + I remember to get this stuff in a pot in the morning. I could not tell you what the ratio of anything is much less their weight in grams. It's all just to add flavor to a soup that will end up having other ingredients in it.
Same! Also bags of meat offcuts and bones. 👍
This! My wife and I have done this for years. We have turkey, chicken, and beef bones as well as whatever else we peel and chop leftover in bags in our freezer to make stock all the time. We then freeze the stock by the half gallon for big winter stews and such. I always wash my vegetables well so that I can keep the peels to use as well. Way less waist and they often contain the most nutrients.
i thought this was the only way people made stock
okay but, what about blending/food processing the scraps!? actually this would be a bit more akin to coffee, since we dont juice out only the liquids/oils from roasted coffee beans, we grind them. next level is somehow finding a way to do an espresso style hot water+pressure extraction on scraps
5:43 "Give me the grams, give me the grams, Gordon" would make a perfect meme/GIF
The highlight
With the Always Sunny music and text saying "James orders drugs from Gordon Ramsay"
Jimmy "Gimme the grams" Hoffman is a 40's gangster name
I was about to say, that would fit well on a t-shirt.
Throwing shade at Gordon is my kinda video, and I'm here for all of it.
"That happens, I'm a normal person, I don't think that's weird," James said to himself, reassuringly.
He's not weird, he's just briping
@@davidmarshall2399 Thank you
😅😅😅
As we all watch a coffee brewer make stock.
Hey James, I don't know if you will see my comment here, but I'll try : here are 3 techniques I love to make better vegetable stock, inspired by brewing coffee ! A first common technique is to roast your vegetables (like coffee beans) after you've cut them, in order to dry them and concentrate the flavors (try to compare a slice of fresh banana and a slice of dried one), and in order to activate the Maillard reaction (to produce different and rich flavor compound) : they will infuse much faster, with a stronger, fuller and more complex flavor profile. A second technique is what you are pointing out in the video : to cut them fine enough (try with a mandoline) and to saturate the liquid with vegetables (try 2 parts vegetables to 3 parts water) to ensure a maximum surface of infusion. And third technique is to use fermented ingredients for a richer flavor profile (and sometimes for a touch of umami) : some are using miso paste for instance to achieve that (try 1 to 2 tablespoons for a kilo of vegetables), but what if we used a coffee brew to add a bit of punch (never tried it, just had the idea) ?
- sorry for my english (I'm a french speaker), like my comment for visibility, and I hope James will see it... I'm a french aspiring chef, I love to experiment, iterate and explore new ideas -
🙄🙄
Your English is perfect :)
Bothered me greatly that James does not even mention roasting the vegetables once in the video! Splendid comment!
Watching this video, I also immediately thought of using a mandolin then using a juicer. Following along the keeping the cells intact to not have the enzymes get activated argument, while mandolin achieves this it also increases the surface area that we were looking for.
I think the list of the directions you mentioned is very complete and I would like to see more people working on its improvements.
@@muffinberg7960 spanish speaker here. To me a mandolin is a guitar like string musical instrument. What is a mandolin in the kitchen? :P
If you don’t want to waste the left over ground veggies, you can roast them enough so there’s just a little bit of burnt material mixed in there, then blend it to create a veggie gravy. I like to make sure there’s mushrooms in there too for extra umami flavor. The Maillard reaction really fills the gravy with more flavor than you’d expect.
I’m so glad that I read your comment! I’m going to try this soon. I think it’s opened up a whole world of flavorful recipes I never knew existed.
Now if only I can force myself to be patient enough to do it!
I started doing this a few years ago. It makes a notable difference.
@@janegravelle5223 I just love that ideal I never thought about that cuz I hate throwing away pretty good decent veggies I will do this on the next round
Lol, You write "umami" and "maillard" in the same paragraph... I like you already; I'd do the same thing... 😉
BUT...impo, "peels/fiber/cellulose" is not a good thing to put into a gravy, caramelized or not ... I've tried it, and it just tastes like burnt baby food to me, and gives the sauce a bitter unpleasant taste and texture. Better off throwing those things into the compost heap, to grow more veggies. 👍😁
This Aeropress technique is a bit weird but I guess I'll give it a go.
"I gave you your Aeropress video so shut up and let me grind carrots."
This is some Peter Rabbit shit right here...
actually made me laugh
At least he didn't use his coffee grinder!
@@stuyg86 same. Legit laughed out loud.
When doing this it is VITAL that you keep your style of juicer in mind. In yours, it's a slow grinding movement, so it's perfectly fine. BUT if you're using a high velocity spin juicer, the onions are going to make your kitchen feel like someone dropped a tear gas grenade. I found out the hard way.
I find the concept of using whole vegetables for stock interesting. Typically, and the way I was taught by some pretty decent chefs (admittedly Italian ones), that veg stock is typically a way of using the offcuts (ends and skins of onions, tops of celery, ends of carrots, etc i.e. anything you'd usually compost, you can make stock from).
This is what stocks have been for hundreds of years, the remainder of food products like chicken carcasses & wing tips, beef bones, vegetable scraps and creating an additional menu product (soup consomme or aspic) to sell to make money, or an additional ingredient (demiglaze). There are exceptions like noodle shops where the stock is mostly unrelated to the rest of the ingredients though.
basically, and you would absolutely waste your effort and your knife's edge bothering to chop any more than twice on any given vegetable that you're using in stock
unless you're making a batch of fresh ramen or pho where the flavor of the stock is the meaning of the whole dish (or you're just drinking it lol) your effort would be much better spent chopping and freezing your vegetables for actual meals and then use the leftover bits after you finish cooking for your stock
I keep a frozen bag of vegetable and meat leftovers that I take like once a month and turn into stock lol
I think they are two different ideas of stock for two different purposes. The stock made from scraps is a way to economize food by getting some flavor and nutrition where ordinarily you'd get none since the components would go to waste. Whereas stock made from prime ingredients like whole chickens or full vegetables is a way to maximize flavor. I can see using the "full stock" like this for applications where cost is secondary compared to maximizing flavor, like for holidays or fine dining, while the "scrap stock" is sufficient for most applications and also more economical.
@@ReaperStarcraft The other aspect is that years of cooking with stock have yielded tons of delicious recipes that depend on the stock rather than the vegetables themselves. Occasional home cooks don't have tons of vegetable offcuts because they don't cook often enough to generate them, so stocks made with whole ingredients come in to fill a gap left in a modern world where people are time poor and cook infrequently rather than being short on ingredients.
Yrs. I think since we cook less in modern life people have forgotten why stock exists
Me waking up at 6:00 a.m.: Ugh. This day is gonna suck.
Me at 6:03 a.m. seeing James brewing vegetable stock: This is a pretty good day.
California?
@@AyAy008 yep 😁
You’ve got to get Alex French Guy Cooking on that. I cannot imagine a better collab here on the cookery highlands of RUclips.
Bingo!
This!!!
Duuude I was thinking the exact same!!!
Yeeees
@@tomedwick516 I have another option to nominate as an additional collab! Josh of Mythical Kitchen. He already has beef with Gordon Ramsey about grilled cheese recipes so I'm sure he would like to be a part of this and might also have some great ideas of things to apply coffee technique to. Ideally in a few months we could be watching a video where Rhet and Link give the final verdict on stock tried both ways. I would also say that adding some of that ground veggies will add back the color to make them indistinguishable and would be like the difference between orange juice with and without pulp. I would argue that without that you are missing out on much of the added benefits such as the fiber within the pulp.
As a side note: who are the few Gordon Ramsey fanboys that disliked the video? That is a crazy ratio about 100 times the likes!
In Romania we use dehydrated small chunks of vegetables to make stock and we typically chop every vegetable small when making soup so that we don't throw away any vegetables. It's not technically stock though, but I always noticed how our soups have more strong flavour than ones found in other cuisines.
This sounds much closer to brewing coffee than what James did
I recall from my childhood in Poland soups were served with veggies, so nothing was discarded unless it was a recipe for a clear chicken soup. Everyone would get a little bit of veggies, otherwise. I tend to blend my soups these days or use veggies in some other way and never discard anything. There are a few ideas in the other comment what to do with a dried pulp from the video.
There's one more way stock is a lot like coffee! Browning your bones or meat (and, I presume, vegetables, if they're the kind of vegetable that takes well to browning) before adding them to the stock really increases the flavor goodness! (Thanks to Helen Renee for this tip.) You can bake bones and fry everything else, or bake everything else in fat. This makes me think of the importance of the roasting process in coffee.
In classical French cuisine you brush the bones with tomato paste before you bake them when making beef stock for brown sauce. 🤓🍻
As a chef currently learning to roast coffee, these are my thoughts:
-My first impression is that juicing the raw ingredients is sort of analogous to grinding the green beans before roasting them, (which is certainly an interesting premise!)
-Vegetables have a lot more water content locked up inside them at the start of the cooking process than a coffee bean, roasted or otherwise, which affects the flavour extraction process. Water prevents both the Maillard reaction (proteins) and caramelization (sugar) from taking place, you can't brown juice, whereas you can roast a root vegetable before making stock with it and get a lovely enhanced richness of flavour in your final product.
- IT IS very very wasteful to use big chunks of meat to make a stock, which is why meaty stocks are typically made with bones, for example a chicken carcass where the remaining bits of meat thereon are too hard to separate, or remnant scraps or gnarly bits you wouldn't want to just eat as is, they break down into a lovely flavourful stock.
-As others have pointed out, part of the rationale for leaving the pieces fairly large has to do with the ease of getting them out again at the end. You could of course just make a nice potage as an alternative, where you puree everything together and nothing gets wasted, but trying to strain a puree would be like a paper filter gummed up with finely ground espresso, but on a multi-litre scale. I'm now imagining a truly enormous aeropress, but that's neither here nor there.
you'd use a centrifuge to seperate it, and/or a filter press to extract even more water before disposing of the waste. Same way we process things like milk or human waste on an industrial scale.
RUclips commenters: Where’s our Aeropress carrot recipe James???
I know about the Maillard reaction! In designing evaporation plant for organic waste streams from distillation, yeast etc you have to limit the maximum operating temperature to below ~105 deg C to prevent excessive scaling/fouling. These types of plant process up to 70 tonnes per hour of waste, so cleaning them is a real chore. I am also an amateur cook & make my own chicken stock from a cooked carcass regularly, but I don't want bits of bone in my stock. I'll definitely try chopping up the bits more though, & perhaps adding grated onion instead of chunks.
You could sear the vegetables before juicing them, get some caramel notes in the mix.
a really interesting experiment, to grind before roasting - have you tried?
I have never cooked a stock for less than 4 hours. A 20 minute cook sounds insane to me.
20 minutes is barely enough to make the vegetables soft smh
Ya, of course then the carrots were delicious.
Totally agree, my understanding of stocks has always been that they need long slow simmers to extract maximum flavour. What James ended up with is basically cooked vegetables and the leftover flavoured water - more like a tea infusion than a stock. If you make it properly the vegetables should become shrivelled and faded, with no potential for further use.
Yeah, what the heck. I don't like Gordon Ramsey as a personality, but that really made me doubt his cooking as well.
Totally agree. No wonder the vegetables were still full of flavor.
Did you steep the pulp with the juice, or juice only? I imagine the pulp too could contribute some efficiency
I’d say that James would appreciate the technique where the veggies are finely shaved with a mandoline cutter, then roasted in the oven, then finally made into a stock?
Also, love your work Mr Shaquille!
NetShaq! Love your channel.
The pulp may reabsorb some of the extracted flavor
tests would have to be done
I did not. I talked to Chris about it and he was concerned they might add some bitterness. One to test though!
I appreciate the integrity with which you brewed with whole beans for a 7 second B roll clip. Sparing no expense for us!
Next on James Hoffmann: how to dial in a shot of stock. After taking the scraps from juicing the veggies, James will dehydrate them, grind them, then separate 18g portions for use in his portafilter as he tests different pressure/temperature combinations...
He will poach and then freeze-dry the veg, then grind it to make a stock espresso. I'd actually love to see that
“For lighter roasted vegetables, I recommend the unimodal burr set. If you’re roasting your carrot past second crack multi modal burrs can reveal more delicious flavours.”
Here’s what’s missing in this experiment - you need to try grating all of the vegetables using a cheese grater. This extracts the right amount of flavor from the vegetables and also extracts flavors from the fiber sections missing in your juicer experiment. Also ironically, this is closer to the idea of “brewing” stock from vegetables and allows for accurate measuring of material.
You can also roast the grated vegetables in the oven first, and make a richer stock this way.
Good idea. Grate then a light to medium roast like hashbrowns.
I was thinking, I don’t have a juicer, but I do have a meat grinder attachment for a stand mixer. If I ground the vegetables, capturing both juices AND surface-area-maximized solids into the pot for simmering, and then strained out the pulp afterwards, I should get something pretty special.
It's funny to me that he missed the roasting step, given how well it applies to coffee. Granted, Ramsay's recipe did too. To quote Mr. May, 'You disappoint me, Ramsay.'
I'd actually dry/roast the leavings from the juicing and then brew that in parallel with the main stock base, then strain and blend to taste.
But it's not efficient to grate
I don't have a juicer, but I have been grinding vegetables up in a blender before making stock for years. You can sieve, strain, or filter the solids when you're done. I usually freeze the cooked vegetable solids in ice cube trays and mix them into future mashed potatoes. The cooked vegetables aren't as intensely flavored, but they still add deliciousness and fiber. So nothing is lost!
What i learned from ramen making is that it's best to let it simmer over night. The big chunks make it possible to get a clear stock, tiny chunks would make it cloudy or even desintegrate completely. Quite comparable to cold brew! I dont have a juicer but was astonished to see that your juice based soup was clearer!
Weighing carrots doesnt make sense because they are tremendously different in flavour density. 1 big carrot from the farmers market packs more than 1kg from the supermarket.
Idk if I'm alone in this, but the "I hope you have a great day" at the end of the video feels so genuine, it's nice
Same here, brings a smile to my face every time
It has a very satisfying sound to it - I think James would make for a good informative narrator on TV.
It genuinely put me at ease, very nice to hear
Turns out James' favourite Aeropress recipe is just a standard roast dinner.
I make it the traditional way, but I absolutely eat the veggies I strain out!! Either I incorporate them into another element of the dinner, or I save them for lunch tomorrow 🥳
I think that Sofrito and Mirepoix are more analogous to coffee brewing. Like coffee, the ingredients are very finely minced before flavor is extracted from them. Sofrito and Mirepoix are usually fried until soft, before water is added to extract the flavor. Coffee is roasted, before grinding, but the analogy holds, the "grinding" is just in a different order. Sofrito and Mirepoix extract can hardly be called a "broth", because they are usually quite thick with solids, but if you just boil coffee grounds, that would be thick with solids. Maybe Sofrito or Mirepoix prepped in the usual way, and then filtered, would be the ultimate analogy to coffee. Can't wait to see that experiment.
"Give me the grams, Gordon" is the greatest sentence out of context.
I think imma put that on a shirt
This general idea is discussed in Kenji Lopez-Alt's book the Food Lab - he discusses for example running chicken parts through a food processor before making stock out of them to speed up the process
The same technique has been used with lobster shells for centuries. That’s how you make lobster bisque.
I tried this. It was excellent. I also boiled the pulp in water separately and found a good amount of flavor still came out. I combined the two into a concentrated stock that I froze. My chickens enjoyed the pulp when all was done. Zero waste. Thank you so much for the idea!
Hey, as someone who makes a lot of stock, theres just some things that i think are missing from the discussion. Vegetable stock recipies are the way they are because when cooking stock you normally simmer it for a very very long period of time, while with coffee the brewing is quite quick. While they’re similar there is a major difference in technique as the cooking time is so wholy different. Flavors are extracted and developed differently and so i don’t think it would be as simple as its made out to be.
How I learned to make stock via RUclips is to not use perfectly good vegetables but instead scraps and skins that would get thrown away anyways. Then the waste isn’t really waste
Same
I always eat the carrots carrots after making chicken stock. And of course, we shred the chicken and stretch that out for a few meals too
That's how I learned to make stock as well. When you make whatever dish involving vegetables, collect the skin and parts you cut off and throw it into a pot of water before throwing it away.
Gives you stock for the next week or so and it's always a bit different, depending on what dishes you make.
Same. Plus you can add a serving of used coffee grinds to add a deeper flavor. Honestly where I thought he was going with this lol
@@nicholasjohnson9666 Same.
Someone needs to share this with Alex ("FrenchGuyCooking"). My body is ready for a 24 part series about burr-ground carrots and juiced leeks.
Flat burrs or conical burrs? Do SSP make unimodal carrot burrs?
@@IainChalmers Of course it depends. Carrots are vaguely conical, so you could go with the old saying "Conical burrs for conical foods". However if you slice them first it would without a doubt yield more uniform carrot-grounds, wich would then in turn lead to a more repeatable stock flavor-profile.
So in my mind I'd say. If you want your veggie-stock perfectly dialed in to your preferences, cut your carrots and go eith flat burrs. For your lazy everyday breakfast stock just use conical burrs and just throw the MFers in whole with peel, stalk and greens. Even though it makes for a more rustic cup, I'm not quite sure if its worth the effort everytime. Besides some people might prefer the more robust, earthy flavors of the whole-ground carrot you can achieve with a conical burr-setup.
Thanks for coming to my TED-talk.
Watching James Hoffman do chef-y stuff (some of which is being done at the expense of Gordon Ramsey-which is a bonus) surrounded by coffee stuff is a mashup I never knew I wanted (or needed). ☕️🥕
This is a really interesting concept. Usually, when I make stock, I use refuse---onion skins and ends, carrot tops and peelings, celery ends, leek bottoms and leaves, etc; I also usually roast them before steeping. I wonder how well this would work with these, usually dryer, portions of vegetables.
I am a home chef who regularly makes complex food from scratch and loves trying new ways to be more efficient and reduce food waste. I really appreciate this and all your video.
James:
"I don't want to say this version is better..."
also James:
"How Coffee Brewing Makes Better Vegetable Stock
"
Haha, you thought it was Aeropress #2 but it was me, vegetable stock!
1 of the biggest problems in this was a 20 minute boil for the stock without a multi hour simmer, by not having a prolonged simmer you failed to draw out all the flavor and nutrition from the veggies used in it, a good stock takes at least 2.5 hours of simmering
Seems like a waste of time
@@kl6336 only if you don't care about making quality stock is it a waste of time, up to a point the longer you simmer it the better the stock is, added benefits if you roast the veggies first and add fresh herbs to the pot
I'm pretty sure vegetable stocks have always used a (much) shorter cooking time than those used for bones.
@@davidmckean955 never had a good vegetable stock that didn't got for at least 2 hours, especially while working in a scratch kitchen for 5 years
I cook my veg for a short time, then blend them to a texture I like with the stock and often keep the pulp in whatever I’m making, unless for some reason I want a clear stock, in which case I strain it. This enables me to be far more frugal, and include additional texture. This blending technique works great for things like Chile or thick soups.
I do the same. You can add lemon juice, creme, Greek yogurt, spring onions, olive oil or other ingredients to improve the flavor. Ramen decoration and finishing techniques work great on such blended soups.
Did James just tell us to juice meat to make stock?
mince~
i guess, he said, we should grind it
no juice bones to make stock
But a lot of the flavor comes from browning when you're making a meat based stock. Perhaps we need to brown ground meat?
@@tylerbrady286 yhymmmm
In Poland almost every household is doing "vegetable salad" which is basically finely cubed vegetables from the stock with cubed eggs, apples, corn and mayo. It's on most tables during every possible occasion: birthdays, weddings, eastern etc.
Who the hell puts corn in there? It should be peas
Sounds like a recipe Mexicans stole from Poland, except we use boiled potatoes instead of apples and we do it around those same celebrations.
@@ceciliacorson1804 oh, we use potatoes in there too. To be exact it's carrots, potatoes, parsley root, eggs, apples, onion, pickles and peas( I stand by that) . Mix with salt, pepper, mayo and a bit of mustard.
Oh and the onion and apples are in my experience very finely diced.
@@nemi-ru5318 Corn is sweet and crunchy, so I don't see why not
Can you tell more about this recipe ?
Okay, this is the video that sold me. My friend showed me your channel since we were both starting to get more interested in coffee and now I see why he thought I'd like it here. I feel like I could learn a lot from you so thanks for the helpful backlog of videos.
One of the biggest differences between the coffee method and the traditional stock method is time. You can simmer a stock for hours, sometimes even days. You need the exposed parts of the bean when you're introducing it to water over the span of possibly minutes, you dont need to worry about that in a stock. 99% of the time you're not going to use raw veg or meats in a stock either, so juicing an almost burnt onion wouldn't be ideal. Also, try not to use meat in stocks to begin with. You use bones. If there's meat on the bones, it's fine, but you'll get more flavor from the meatless bones if one chicken in a stock that three chickens worth of meat and no bones.
If James ever does a cooking collab with Gordon, I'll be very happy.
James: YES BUT HOW MANY GRAMS, GORDON? HOW MANY GRAMS?
Meanwhile Gordon: A splash of olive oil.
(dumps the whole bottle)
that’s Marco Pierre White with the olive oil 😂
@@michael.d. My mistake lol
Just a touch
Also Gordon: And a touch of butter (adds pretty much the entire stick of butter)
Ramsey seems pretty anti-intellectual and gut-driven. And as an already successful chef, I don't sense the spirit of inquiry in him. So no, I'm not seeing collab chemistry there, 'cept as dueling youtube silverbacks ;~)
Now I'm going to be running carrots through my grinder and dialing in shots of stock with my espresso machine.
I would like to have seen a third stock where you included the fibrous material from the juicer put into the stock while it was cooking for comparison purposes.
I've studied gongfu tea brewing and Japanese tea ceremony. Those traditions have informed my coffee brewing. Certainly little things like pre-warming cups, but even down to gathering my own fresh spring water from a forest and testing the material of the kettle used to boil water for tea/coffee. Lots to share between these traditions! Shojin Ryori (Zen temple cooking) also has much to offer.
"Gordon, how big is a carrot?" Thank u for singlehandedly curing my depressive episode
that was my favorite part of video... just hilarious
This is why I hate cooking
...someone once commented, that there is a big overlap between coffee-lovers and OCD-Patients...I kind of agree with him :-)
How long is a piece of string?
GIVE ME THE GRAMS GORDON
I like to freeze all of my veggie scraps from cooking and then when I have a good amount I make veggie broth with the frozen scraps to reduce cost & waste. Its always a different mix of flavor but always good✨
Agreed, freezing veggie scraps decreases waste and increases taste 👨🍳
Which is what I feel James has missed, he’s approached making a stock as if it’s a scientific experiment when really it’s something you do with leftover bones and vegetables, it’s not made to be exact and I feel as if that approach to making a stock would just take away from what in my opinion is one of the more enjoyable things to to on the kitchen
I do the same thing! Sometimes I throw all my scraps in the oven at its lowest setting over night to dry them out and brown em a bit first and its delicious
@@justgame5508 I don't think it's an issue to approach making a stock that way (sometimes people just make a stock, and so want the 'optimal' way of doing it when working without scraps). And it's interesting to see the various ways to make it.
But I think the bigger issue in making the comparison is time - the 20 minutes of simmering is shockingly low, and it doesn't surprise me that the flavor isn't fully extracted. Typically when a stock calls for the big chunks, I see it being simmered for 3+ hours.
@@mattgopack7395 Agreed it’s not inherently wrong to approach a stock like that, however critiquing Gordon’s nonchalant approach to measuring is, in my opinion, a bit unfair. Also I agree 20 mins is ridiculously low I’ve never heard of anyone making a stock in less than 1:30hr
Adding on to what @BaptisteMarie stated, add the skins from the onions while roasting. Caramalizing the onions in stages with small batches in the pan. Reducing the broth then adding your juice and cooking for another 20 minutes would make for an amazing vegetable broth
Hmmm.U actually gave me a new idea on making stock.
Been watching too much Heston and Vincenzo last time.
using ur idea and James' why don't I try this? :P
Take the measure amount of Sofito (carrots, celery and Onion.) Use a immersion blender and blend them into a fine paste. Saute over low heat until U can see signs of caramelisation.
Put them into a vaccum bag. Throw in ice cubes. Volume is the same as what u will put in for making stock.
vacuum seal it. And sou vide it for 12 hours at 183°F (83.9°C),
Time up. Just filter the mixture.
Base on ur description and Jame's findings. I have a feeling that this could make a stock that taste very close to the traditional way. and yet have a way more intensity.
This could well initiate a paradigm shift and I love it! The points about waste and frugality are well made and timely. Thanks James!
Really hoping Marco Pierre White jumps out with a knorr stock pot... (“it’s your choice”)
Oh how I wanted to find this comment
Just one? Have the courage to add five
🤣 (no offence to Marco but this will always be funny)
Hahahahahahahahahah.... Comment of the day mate!
The perfect comment
I bought a coffee scale a year ago based on this channel, which led to consistently good coffee (thank you James) then led to consistently good oatmeal, which then led to me losing 30lbs from simply weighing my food out for a week so I understood what how much I was (over) eating. Long story short... count your grams, it may change your life!
Whenever people ask me about my weight loss I tell them that a scale was the biggest game changer. It’s insane how many servings you really eat when eyeballing it
On a long term diet (at least for me) I average 60 g/day sustainable weight loss, so you do need scales that weigh to +/- 0.05 kg. Body weight day by day varies tremendously due to water balance, digestion etc, but you can definitely see a trend over time...
Im using it for more regular cooking too. Mostly coffee and making deserts, where every gram counts.
Wait, you lost THIRTY POUNDS in A WEEK ? How ? Why ? How ? And most importantly, HOW ?
@@mrpepin It took me 6 months to lose 30 lbs, but only one week of meticulously weighing food to understand how many calories I was eating a day.
This is incredible. I'm a massive fan of Chris, and Chefsteps was a huge resource for me when I was an apprentice, so I think it's awesome that you reached out to him for his input on this.
This genuinely might've been the most interesting video that I've ever seen on RUclips. Kudos & thank you!
Expectation: Aeropress #2
Reality: Coffee Brewing Makes Better Vegetable Stock
I'm dying for that video and I don't even have an Aeropress
same
Reality owns, expectation is boring
Aeropress makes better vegetable stock.
you know james dropped the first aeropress video before this only because if he released a video about vegetables before the aeropress video, people would riot
With the logic that coffe grind size is variable, what you just made was essentially “espresso” stock. i think a much more finely, but not juiced, vegetable base would potentially make a stock that does the job of a “filter coffee.” less intense, smoother, etc. would love to see a comparison of that.
So if he adds water to his juiced stock, he'd get Americano stock?
Hugh F. W. has a veg stock recipe in “River Cottage Veg Everyday” where he grates all the veg before cooking for 20 minutes. Sort of a halfway house between juicing and rough chop. I’ve used it a few times and it does produce a tasty result.
As a German, I have to agree: Give me the grams, goddammit!
This is super interesting by the way, I really like this idea! :D
Hearing James say 'and I hope you have a great day' is like a warm blanket at the end of each of his vids that I legitimately look forward to.
Was really hoping there would finally be a Kenji/James crossover, but still pleasantly entertaining
I second that crossover!
I'm not ready. But my body is ready.
I wondered the very same thing so I’m pleased that you tested the idea. I will definitely try it and report my results.
This is why I follow this channel. Wonderful!
I love how the studio is becoming its own 'character' in the Hoffman-verse with teases for future videos lurking in the background!
Agreed! Especially as James has what looks like a Rocket Espresso Appartamento and a Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder there - that's my set up, so a bit nervous now about what he will have to say when he passes judgement.
Looks like there is a video "best espresso machine for under £1500" coming. I need to see that, James!
Wait just a darn minute: didn't you forget about the whole roast your coffee beans -- I meant vegetables -- step?
Good catch. If your veggies are roasted, a masticating juicer might not work as well as a centrifugal type.
And, further, maybe I misunderstood but it seems like he discarded the juiced veg solids described as not very flavorful, which... speaking of unnecessary waste!
Nah, you roast the pulp after you juice it and cook it with the rest of the juice.
@@warrenokuma7264 i would second this, or maybe tossing them in a dehydrator to extract anything left.
@@accelerator1666 Ooo. Good one.
James at his inquisitive best 👍
Three comments:
1) It would have been good to have done an intermediate (more finely chopped) stock - to test the increased surface area hypothesis.
2) I use an InstantPot to produce bone broth and various stocks etc. all primarily from what would otherwise just be discarded bones and vegetable leftovers (which I keep frozen until used). The pressure massively reduces the required cooking time, and improves the flavour.
3) Industrial stock production similarly utilises pressure (and pulping) to maximise extraction yield (of flavour?) Why not speak to Knorr ? 😂
Very much looking forward to the follow up on this video! Excellent example of applying curiosity to great results.
I'm not sure why I thought James was going to put those leftover carrot and veggie bits from the juicer into a portafilter and pull a shot. 😂
That will be in aero press part 2 lol
Or cook the pulp as well to make stock. Note the color difference.
Regarding efficiency: that is why I love the veg stock made out of vegetable "scraps" you would usually throw away whilst cooking like carrot peel, onion peel and so on. It is reducing waste and is full of flavor.
This is the big insight for cutting your wastefulness. Just have a few ziplock bags in your freezer for vegetable scraps and animal bones and any other food waste you can use for something else once you have enough of it.
This is exactly how I make stocks
Wonderful video James. I love how your passionate nature transferred to stock and arguably sustainability in regards to the "food is not limitless..." great stuff.
James, just love what you bring to coffee. I've been in c coffee for 18 years, own my own roasting biz in the States and just so appreciate what you do and enjoy it so much, cheers!
P.S. Own a juicer and will start playing
Shandong stock, or Chinese "Consommé" is made using a similar method. After simmering bones and carcasses for 5 hours, pork and chicken is made into a paste (yes, paste; not mince) and added to the stock. The result is that not only is the stock infused with a ridiculous amount of flavor, but the paste also sucks away all the impurities, resulting in the most perfectly clear stock you can make.
I came to the comments to see if anyone was going to mention consomme.
Yup consume especially how the Austrians do them are made with ground beef
You can also clarify a stock that way with an eggwhite btw
I've wondered this myself and just assumed that chefs use huge chunks to save time and to make it easier to strain out.
Also, you should've cooked out the solids from the juiced version as well; you left a lot of flavor on the table by just cooking the juice.
If you don't own a juicer, I'd imagine blending vegetables to a pulp and allowing them to sit in their juices for 30min to a hour before cooking down the pulp and straining might produce an interesting hybrid of the techniques shown here.
Was going to say the same thing: add the pulp and your stock might be a bit darker James.
Straining that pulp will be an ordeal. It clogs every sieve, or you have to use a cheesecloth which is pretty messy too. I’ve done it before and regretted it. It only adds 10% more flavor, so not worth it in my opinion.
@@LidiaChurakova Also, I feel like that pulp is gonna compost better. You want some of the veggie chemical compounds still in there so you're not just enriching the soil with moist fiber.
@@LidiaChurakova What if you had a handy centrifuge lying around?
Yeah, I think maybe purée-ing might be a better middle ground. Tiny bits for extracting, but not losing the contributions of skins and fibers.
So happy about this video. I once had a hissy fit in my grocery shop because none of the carrots were within 9grams of each other and I was making stock.
This really is such a great idea, I tried it and now I am never going back. I also take the leftover veggie fibers and add it to my pressure cooker when I make beans so there is no waste. 10/10 vid. Cheers!
"Give me the grams, Gordon" "Doing Gordon's job for him" - thank you for speaking for the rest of us
I would love to see a further comparison between a 3-4 hour stock and the juiced. Great video
Yes, I taste the solids after making a stock (generally several hours cooking) normally fairly tasteless. But maybe juicing uses less energy overall and offers new flavour experiences
Excellent, practical training. This changed my entire perspective on stock making. Thank you!
VERY interesting concept! looking forward to the results and more info!
This makes a lot of sense when you think about how Japanese dashi is made with katsuobushi, very finely shaved dried tuna flakes. The flavor is extracted from those very quickly, and considering how little you have to use, it's very efficient compared to other kinds of fish stock
It's bonito, not tuna, and thicker cut shavings are used too. I don't know another fish stock for comparison though, I'm only familiar with making chicken stock.
@@spacebiggles isn’t bonito dried tuna
Katsuobushi is made from katsuowonus pelamis, the skipjack tuna.
Skipjack tuna is commonly also known as “bonito”, but bonito are a different tribe of fish in the same family as tuna, and while they closely resemble skipjack tuna, they are not actually the skipjack tuna.
Bonito flesh is sometimes used in the production of cheaper versions of katsuobushi sold as “bonito flakes”, but “proper” katsuobushi is made from skipjack tuna. Confusing huh?
This reminds me of the traditional method of making consomme, meat/vegetable "raft" is all ground up which clarifies it by trapping all the particulates within the raft while simmering as well as maximizing surface area for maximum flavor extraction from the raft ingredients
When making stock you usually simmer for much longer, you can make a veggie Soup or just compost or feed the leftover vegetables to your animals if you have them. The reason the size of cuts don’t matter as much as coffee is because the water is at a boil compared to coffee which isn’t. When the veggies/me/bones come to a boil temperature inside they push out the flavors and compounds because of steam pressure buildup inside them.
The length of time of cooking is an important difference too.
@@MalTramp yea that’s very important too, he chose the worst stock recipe to test this with lol.
Love it 🙂
One thing not mentioned in stock making is of course the malliard reaction. Ie the roasting.
Different vegetables react different to roasting. But for sure you get a lot more interesting stock if you roast some of the vegetables first. Like the carrots for example. If you make a shellfish stock, the roasting is critical!
Another aspect is quality and freshness of the vegetables. Makes a huge difference!
Some vegetables really benefit from being organic and more slow growing for example.
In some older cook books, there was a reference table converting units into grams ised for the recipes.
But overall, cook books in general could be improved A LOT, by better explanations, what’s important to be accurate about, what is not, flavor profiles etc etc.
Alternative title: British Coffee Guru gets angry at British Chef Guru
I'd replace angry with cross to be the perfect title.
Love your lateral thinking, James! How about "Roasted Vegetable Broth" for a deeper flavor? We roast coffee beans for a better brew, so why not roasting the veggies for a better broth?
I like the way you think,
With mince meat if you brown it first, in small batches then make your tomatoe chutney ,then add it again in , greatly improve s the flavour
THANK YOU! It's about time someone explains extraction from increasing surface area!!
I always thought the same thing. Glad you made the video on it.
For one moment, I thought we were going to see a TDS reading of the two stocks.
Omg yes
I feel I finally understand the people who commented things like ‘I don’t even drink coffee, but if I see James I click’
Not the video i was expecting, but dang if it wasn’t interesting
Glad you understand. I still don’t know why I watch a coffee channel when I hate coffee.
Great video, great methodology, very interesting outcome. I agree with you that we should make the most of our ingredients.
I'd be curious to see what roasting the pulp and adding it to the stock would bring to the end result.
"This recipe will make me angry." - Well of course, that's the Gordan Ramsay effect
I’m not sure if someone has mentioned it yet but essentially you’ve made a variation of Consommé, more than a stock. A more efficient way to make Consommé. The lack of clarity in a standard stock is due to cellulose and protein breakdown from the physical cell structures. Juicing eliminates a large quantity of the 'hard matter' allowing more clarity. This in turn I believe allows for more flavor visibility on top of more concentration from mechanical extraction. In a traditional Consommé, all the constituents of the base are chopped up intentionally for more surface area as well as a means to create a mesh network that is bonded with egg in order to produce more clarity. Similar to Swedish egg coffee I think. ^^v but Juicing could be a more efficient way to achieve something similar. I'd be curious to taste compare Stock, Consommé, and 'Juice soup?' ^^v
I await your results with the next comment
Thanks for this! Really interesting stuff. Going to need to look up Swedish egg coffee now haha
Thank you for making this video. I love cooking, but I shy away from others' recipes because they can be very wasteful. I absolutely understand using bones and scrapes that would otherwise go straight to the trash (and yeah, let's find a way to use them), but to your point, there has to be a better way of getting the same result with much less waste. I don't have a juicer, but this has definitely made me think about how to use the methods I do have at my disposal to get more flavor out of my ingredients.
"The world is full of opportunities for cross-pollination of thinking" That is a beautiful and accurate quote
as a chef il give you some tips :) Usualy we use stock for many diffrent dishes as a medium for flavor. Soups, sauces etc. Let say - 2kg of vegies, and 2l of water.Best thing you will get is 1,3-1,5l of stock after removing vegies. Second type-you have juice from vegies 2kg/2l and 2l of water. End product is 3,5kg stock,hence you have more watered stock. Your thought process is very nice for any cream soup or vegetable souce. But you can do it better and quicker. Boil water with vegies,once they get soft, blend it all together :) have a nice day James
THIS makes the most sense to me, yes. Blanch then blend. Then simmer more?
@@hotwhiskey exactly. but only if you are preparing souce or cream soup. remember that blended vegies change structure of your stock. and add green herbs at end ;) dont boil them
@@jasosik I see, ok. So for stock it's still rough chop, dump and boil? R U buying this finer chop, more surface area theory?
@@hotwhiskey i never use pre cuted veggies. I cut them myself and I don't peel them. Just wash it and scrub
"Coffee might finally have broken my brain"
Yes, James. We know this day will eventually come :)
he probably shouldn't drink too much of that 1970 coffee
I don’t drink coffee but for some reason I still like your channel. Thanks!
What a Magnanimous gesture that was thank you