What is Pandiatonicism in Music? - Music Theory
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- What does pandiatonicism mean in music? How did pandiatonicism come about and which composers used it? This music theory lesson explains pandiatonicism, ‘pan’ meaning ‘all’ and ‘diatonic’ meaning inside a key. Examples are explored which illustrate how the style is diatonic rather than chromatic and how chords are built through extension or note addition within the diatonic scale. The non-functional aspect of the pandiatonic style is unpacked and composers such as Stravinsky, Copland, Hindemith, Milhaud, as well as jazz composers working in the style are compared with other approaches such as Serialism. This video will be useful to performers, composers and students of twentieth century music.
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🕘 Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction to pandiatonicism
0:35 - What does pandiatonic mean?
3:52 - Where does the term pandiatonicism come from?
6:20 - Chord building
8:15 - How did pandiatonicism come about?
9:29 - Stravinsky example
11:49 - Jazz example
15:02 - Major and minor keys and chord hierarchy
16:08 - Pandiatonic composers
16:51 - Copland example
18:43 - Serialism vs pandiatonicism
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So helpful and generous of you to share your lessons. Always so good and enjoyable. Great job Gareth!
That’s most kind of you
What a fascinating concept. Thanks so much for introducing me to yet another style to explore. I've got to admit, I find Pandiatonicism more palatable than serialism.
Many would agree with that!
So exciting to see you making videos on Post-Tonality as well as functional harmony!! Love this channel
Glad it’s helpful
Thank you for the video content ! I saw a similar concept in Bill Evans playstyle wich is Voicings ( drop Voicings - close Voicing - open Voicing ) but I've never known it was from the Master Nicholay slimonsky , thank you again
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Clear and really useful. Thank you so much, maestro. It's always a big pleasure to follow your lessons.
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A long-awaited topic! Thanks!
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absolutely fascinating and yet another musical rabbit hole you've inspired me to go down...
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Thanks, Gareth! Another very helpful and insightful video. It might be worth adding that a lot of pop composers and songwriters use this approach, too. It is a way of adding harmonic richness to otherwise boring triads, without generating a great deal of dissonance. The chord names often end up with quite awkward looking extensions, yet sound somewhat diatonically rooted. It reminds me of Wonderwall, by Oasis. The chord progression is F#m7, A, Esus4, B7sus4. These chords are named this way because of the inclusion of a high pitch E and A on top of fairly average triads.
It’s great that this approach is taken in so many contrasting musical styles
Amazing explanation again as always, Gareth!
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Great video, very well explained, thank you!
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Excellent presentation of a complicated subject. Thank you!
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I once composed a student piece in which I treated some permutation of the C major scale as a seven-tone row.
Great idea
Thank you Gareth for highlighting another nugget of music "theory". It seems to me that the history of music and the innovation of different styles / genres is, at its simplest, an exploration of the question: "what is music and what is harmony? " In (probably nearly) every age, people have challenged the status quo - think of the transition our of medieval church modes to the early renaissance , or how our sense of key centre evolved in the 1600s to create the major and minor keys as we understand them today, or the journey from early jazz to "free jazz", or the change from seeing the tritone as a devil to embracing it in music and it being the heart of tritone chord substitution.. As for me, some may class me as a dinosaur as I'm still trying to compose good tunes with a discernible harmony!
Absolutely
Looks like a McCoy Tyner transcription :-).....very interesting, for me as a Jazzer it really explains a lot.Thank you, you do great videos!!
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Thank you so much for this interesting video. It opens my mind to a style that difficult to understand alone.
A pleasure. Glad it’s helpful
Excellent lessons by a master!!! Thank you so much!
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This reminded me of an interview with Jimmy Webb (Wichita Lineman) in which he said that it was a revelation to him many years earlier when a teacher told him that the left hand could play something tonally quite different to the right hand. Webb picked up that idea and ran with it and the rest is history. Maybe the root of that teacher's comment came from Pandiatonicism? I'll revisit 12 tone next but I remember an old music teacher of mine telling me that either Berg or Webern had been shot at by an American soldier in the war. He went on to say that it was a pity he missed! Many thanks as ever.
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Very interesting. Thank you very much.
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Thank you! That was very very enlightening!
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Great lesson. Your explanations are always so clear and very well organized and carefully researched. I would suggest to play an example or two of the music first? Doing so will provide a reference for the explanation that follows.
Always, first comes the music!
Often, teachers use this style in piano improvisation classes-no actual parameters, a lot of emoting, and going nowhere, but it is essential to know it. Thank you very much.
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Never heard this term before but I see how it relates to Jazz definitely in extensions and some nonfunctional harmony. I can see maybe how “Chance music” might apply to this methodology too. Interesting concepts regardless, thanks for sharing!
Absolutely
Thank you Gareth, I'm going to get myself organised and get through this course bundle I purchased from you, it was a bargain if anyone reading this is interested 😊 I hope you are well Gareth 💝
That’s great. I’m very well thanks. Enjoy the course and thanks for the endorsement.
Very informative. Thank you
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
That Bb with an F major on top (Bbmaj7sus2) is so unbelievably beautiful.
Great chord.
Very well explained. Thanks
A pleasure
Interesting concept, and nice to see an unexpected shout out to jazz
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Great explanation Gareth. Not my taste in music, but interesting to understand where it's coming from, thanks
It’s always good to know about techniques even if they don’t appeal.
Great topic
Glad it’s helpful
Very interesting! My thoughts go to the melodic aspect of the compositions. The melody could for example be modal in a way that is natural to the voice, or maybe be closer to speach, in any style, even serial. In your third example I hear mostly a melodic idea, with harmony as a secondary effect. In the second example I come to think of when you take a bunch of coloured pens an write with them, like a fat multi coloured line.
Yes it’s interesting how you can organise things with more of an emphasis on the melodic or the harmonic to create different impacts.
@8:20 What would some good examples of Stravinsky showcasing this be?
Symphony of Psalms would be a good access point.
I am wondering about Jazz Improvisation. When the soloist moves away from the tonal center of the rhythm section, and then returns to the tonal center, we call this playing "Outside". How does this compare to Pandiatonicism? Thank you, Gareth!
That might be pandiatonic but you might well be using notes that relate to the chord scheme or to the prevailing mode
Reminds me a lot of early modal jazz and modern modal music
It’s interesting how this issue crosses different genres.
Hi Gareth.can you talk about writing harmony more than 4 part voicing ??? We learn write harmony just for soprano ,alto, tenor,bass .but how we should write 5 part voice or more...??
Okay we can do that
@@MusicMattersGB thanks alot 🌹🌹
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Hint: Pandiatonicism does not involve Peter Pan
Plot Twist: or does it ? ...
seriously though, is writing pandiatonic style considered equivalent to 'modern composition' ? Or what is meant by 'this composer writes in a modern way' ?
18:46 There is also an esoteric set of incomplete teachings & papers on 'dissonant counterpoint' from the 1930s by composer Henry Cowell which maybe was an attempt to resolve the "it sounds like Hell" problems in serialism and pandiatonicism? According to a musicology dissertation: "Cowell was associated with Johanna Beyer (1888-1944), a less well- known avant-garde composer in New York, who not only used the technique (of Dissonant Counterpoint) but also advocated on its behalf. According to her résumé, Beyer also studied composition with Dane Rudhyar, Henry Cowell, Ruth Crawford, and Charles Seeger. She likely learned about dissonant counterpoint from the latter three individuals."
Peter Pan? What?
I believe this is a form of modern composition as is serialism that emerged in the early to mid 20th century.
You have several offshoots and branches that derive from these concepts too that emerges in the later 20th century. Modern composition depending upon the styles used can borrow from classical concepts and foundations to the concepts introduced here and beyond
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I´d like to know if are there a difference between polytonality and bitonality?
Bitonality indicates two keys being used simultaneously. Polytonality indicates two or more keys being used simultaneously.
@@MusicMattersGB thanks for answer and video
A pleasure
Awesome video once again! I really enjoyed this. C major that sounds like hell, haha, that made me laugh out loud.
Glad you enjoyed it.
🌼🌺🌷🌱 Thank you so much
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Could you do a video on Ravel? His harmony is so interesting - so dissonant yet melodic and impressionist. I think he is one of the most unique yet underrated composers.
Wonderful composer. Yes that should be possible.
I don't think anyone would call Ravel "underrated". He is up there among the greatest.
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What piece is the Copland example from?
Appalachian Spring.
Hi Gareth, do I tend to associate these composers with modern dance and the serialists with modern opera? I hadn't heard the term Pandiatonicism before, so it's good to have it identified and explained (like impressionism and expressionism in art,etc.)Thanks again. Slán, Austin.
Dance and Opera & much else besides. Glad it’s all helpful.
@@MusicMattersGB sorry to be engaging you on a weekend, Gareth, but where then would you place Benjamin Britten and Michael Tippett, (if anywhere other than later?)Slán, Austin.
They sit slightly independently in the British tradition but there are elements of Neoclassicism and even touches of Serialism.
@@MusicMattersGB thanks again, Gareth. Slán, Austin.
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"C major that sounds like hell." LOL! Thank you for this lesson. I had never heard of the term pandiatonic, but it turns out I've been writing music that way for much of my life. Two of the composers I admired the most were Stravinsky and Prokofiev, so I can see why.
It’s great to make that connection
@@MusicMattersGB Prokofiev is my favorite, though I like Stravinsky too. but he tends to be dry in comparison.
It becomes a matter of personal preference
@@MusicMattersGB Of course. Love your channel.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Amazing lesson. Very well done!
I think this concept is most useful to those who might feel limited or obligated to conventional harmony, as opposed to uplifted by the thought of mastering it. Or to those that feel they have exhausted conventional harmony and wish to make something more expansive or progressive, interesting.
In my personal opinion, I believe that is an issue with one's view of conventional harmony- if you find that you feel conventional harmony is not capable of making anything original then you are looking at conventional harmony the wrong way. But there is another angle that says within art there lies no true right or wrong because it is a matter of taste.
I think that more often people struggle to find inspiration within conventional harmony and they run to pandiatonicism for freedom, when instead I believe they should use pandiatonicism as an inspirational framework to expand their use of conventional harmony. A piece with no logical resolutions is enjoyable to some, but in my opinion, truly great composers that are widely viewed as authors of "beautiful" music specifically, know when to use a diatonic passage to it's full effect, instead of being obsessed with the idea of originality, avoiding diatonic passages and seem to head up an endless search for the "great new harmony" that of course DOES NOT exist...
I cite Bach and Mozart as my two references. Afraid to change keys? Absolutely not. Incredibly original, or a for a better term, since originality is unachievable yet simultaneously nothing to do with music quality, masterful? Definitely.
Still beautiful to the average ear? Yes.
Bach and Mozart were not CONSTRAINED by conventional harmony, but they were not AFRAID of it, either. I think this is such a critical lesson, especially for modern classical composers, who all seem to be either so obsessed with originality that they ignore the fundamentals of what makes a song sound GOOD or afraid to be compared to past composers and berated as inferior or rehashing that they avoid diatonic beauty like the Bubonic Plague.
I say master the basics before you jump overboard into a sea of musical variants. People LOVE functional harmony. It doesn't have to be hard to be good. It is a lot like drumming. Most people will just fall all over themselves for you to play the same beat back to them 45 times in 80 different ways. But that doesn't change the fact that musical inspiration is important. Parts need to fit and though it is unquantifiable, some melodies are amazing and others are merely alright. We've all heard a pop piece or two that clearly sounded like a slapped on functional chord progression with a passable melody.
In less Classical circles, you see a lot of musical freedom that makes the concept of Pandiatonicism a near mute point- after all, if that's what you want to do, then do it! It's not like anyone is going to berate you for it, much less have any idea that that is what you are doing. Well, not anyone who had status enough to get an entire group on their side. Unless you are popular enough amongst the music critics, in which case perhaps, but it would not be because you did not follow some set parameters or rules, it would be based in how the music sounded and other social factors. Every music type has it's snobs, after all.
I find the usefulness of this concept of Pandiatonicism within Rock or perhaps even popular symphonic music is more as an inspirational framework of an idea of what is possible. Having more than one key going at the same time or deliberately leaving dissonances unresolved might have never occurred to some, but this lesson could break them free from the restraints of traditional functional harmony.
However, I personally find that my music tastes lies almost exclusively within functional harmony. If there is a dissonance, the example of the F/Bb resolving to F/A was a very pleasing one to me. If the next chord completely ignored the Bb, it would not seem logical to me. It wouldn't have to resolve to A but if it did not have a reasonable resolution of some kind, then it would leave me frustrated. However, a few of these in every piece is to be expected, sometimes resolutions are tense or related but continuing in tension increase. It is only if the composer makes it their point to NOT resolve where you are wishing it to that I become truly frustrated by it.
Using an add 9 chord as a base that does not require resolution is one thing, but continually making every chord an add something and considering all of them unnecessary of resolution becomes tedious. In some cases, it can be very interesting and tasteful. In my early days, I think my musical brain was not as developed and I did more of this without realizing that was what I was doing- however I would also find myself wanting to resolve chords on autopilot to something more stable. One song I wrote used Fadd9, Gmadd9, Bbadd9, and Cadd9, all chords no 3. I found myself resolving the Gm add 9 to the 10 and not even realizing what I was doing. Sometimes I did it with my voice but not my instrument, or vice versa, in varying degrees of tuning accuracy.... Hahaha Later I realized that I was resolving the chord to a stable interval.
Anyway, I think that this concept is very useful as thought provoking and inspiration to a rock music artist like myself, even though I recognize there was basically nothing stopping me from doing it in the first place, besides the limits of my own knowledge.
And I think that much of the beauty of music comes from harmonies that have bee done countless times through the ages for a reason.
I think that figuring out how to make rote harmony new, interesting and beautiful in a powerful way is challenge enough without having to worry about if your harmony has been done before or not. After all, of course it has! It all has.
Music is made one way by God for a reason. Trying to deny it and find a new harmony is not going to make one appear for you. It will only serve to create dissonance and cacophany. It is like denying nature and trying to change reality.
A very clearly stated viewpoint
Hey, Nicholas Slonimsky of Thesaurus of Scales fame. That book is almost legendary.
Indeed
My simplified impression is that it is a chromatic approach to diatonic notes. I will certainly look more into this and see how I can utilize it and expand on that.
Sort of. Certainly worth investigating further.
@@MusicMattersGB I can't explain how I understand it any further than that, but I most definitely will. Thank you for the content and also for being present. I have even spoken to you on Reddit a few times without realizing it.
Great to be in touch
That's a big name for Jazz :)
And other styles too.
Can one say that Arvo Pärt´s tinntinnabuli works are, at least in some sense, pandiatonic?
Yes
@@MusicMattersGB Thank you for your answer. Greetings from Sweden. :)
Greetings
What is the last lesson in music theory ?
There isn’t a last lesson. The journey is infinite
To compose as dissonant as possible in a complete diatonic scale - that's exactly what I tried to do in most of my own compositions. Until today I didn't know there's a name for this sort of music. How funny's that!
It’s always helpful to discover what your approach belongs to.
@@MusicMattersGB Absolutely!
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it makes sense if you play the guitar. Aside from basic cowboy or barr chords.
example in the Key of D MAJOR/Bmin....you can still play all the notes at the NUT
OPEN. Im going to restrict myself to playing only notes within D MAJOR.
Im going to make a D dyad at the 5th fret with my PINKY on the ROOT
INDEX on the D note on B strings..
Open G and E string...the 4 and 9th of D MAJOR
D Maj add 4/9...the 5th is suspended..It is what it is. It's still a pretty chord.
I might play Open A..Alter pick it simply by lifting my PINKY
Or wrap my THUMB over the top to play the G note.
While keeping my middle finger on the F# note ( D string)
Play different bass notes with my INDEX..against the open G , B, E
or simply make a C# min dayd..which will create C# dim.
Play different bass notes...it sounds PRETTY
Then simple/EASY G sus 4 ....F# sus 4....E sus4 ( ALL BARR chords)
Then A sus4..at the NUT into D sus9
Then simply hook a finger on the F# note ( D string)
Play different BASS notes....starting from the note with my PINKY ( A string 7th fret)
Against open G, B, E strings ...
If you finger pick it...it'll sound like you're playing scales really fast..
But you're NOT...and it's EASY to play.
It's actually good for practice/exercise to help you get more familar with the fretboard
and various FINGER positions and be able to play other NOTES with your FREE fingers.
INCLUDING WRAPPING my THUMB over the TOP to play the F# or G ..bass notes.
Most classical guitar teachers will tell you NOT to do that.lol
You'll get a lot of pretty sounding chords..They'll just have weird names.
The guitar sounds pretty in the KEY of E MAJOR/C#min..if you play it Panidatonic.
You can only play the 4 outside strings open. You can keep it EASY...play bar chords
LESS the BAR , DYADS on the D and G strings...or Triads on the A, D, G strings.
Mix it up...to whatever sounds good..aside strumming/finger pick cowboy chords.
Go for it!
please make a video on diatonicism vs chromaticism
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In principle there is no reason why music that only uses the white notes should have a feel of C major any more than a mode starting from any other note, however, I think the reason that one might feel drawn to a root of C or of F is because these are the only notes that have a semitone leading note. This has a consequence of making V - I progressions ineffective for a minor key, however, this somewhat contradicts the concept of pandiatomicism.
Much depends on the chord construction and chord function in relation to the underlying tonality
@@MusicMattersGB Do you mean doing without the (minor) thirds in the relative dominant chords for the possible minor modes (A, D and E on the white notes)?
That’s one possibility but in pandiatonic world you can use whatever suits. That’s one of the rewards
I think the concepts of Serialism and Pandiatonicism depend on your defintition of chromatic scales. In the Western/European traditions this is laid out on 12 semitones but for other systems this is not the case. Perhaps globally speaking Serialism and Pandiatonicism are simply subsets of higher "scale" treatments.
I think the two terms have a specific reference point in the Western scale but of course one could take a similar approach in relation to other scales
So this has a name! I called this sound diatonic lettersoup 😅
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"sounds like hell" - I got that one covered from way back
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yes
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can you make a video on how to change moods in a piece,so a piece sounds sad,but later it sounds happy
We could probably do that.
@@MusicMattersGB I would appreciate that,I'm trying to compose a piece but its hard for me to change moods
@@igballehasani9910 😀
What it means is accepting equal temperament and in my opinion it is a result of written music.
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most deep
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I’m studying grade 7 theory and I found this really helpful. Thank you!
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Wow
Hey Gareth! Are you alright health-wise? I've noticed you have got a bit slimmer. (No offense intended and no need to answer this if you don't want to.)
I’m fine. Thanks for asking. I’m fine. It’s been intentional weight loss.
@@MusicMattersGB Alright, that's good to hear! God bless and good night!
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A church organist who is not willing to work on classical harmony might have an excuse that he uses pandiatonicism and how could his rector argue against that?
That’s certainly one approach!
i wonder if the instructors quote might have been yours, lol
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You can have my negative harmony when you pry my cold dead fingers from around it.
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Sounds like Stravinsky to me. Certainly not Jazz. Maybe Hindesmith...
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seems like almost every video you play a C major scale at least once😂
Keep it accessible!
So basically it’s the Carpenters?
The Carpenters are pretty solidly diatonic
@@MusicMattersGB but what about Pans people?
😀😀
@@MusicMattersGB there is a half serious point which is that the added note on triads thing makes me think of Burt Bacharach - who of course studied with Milhaud didn’t he?
@@JazzGuitarScrapbook Added notes to diatonic chords certainly sit within the realms of conventional harmonic function. In a Pandiatonic style harmonic function and conventions relating to voice leading may not have to be followed.
0:02 but you look purple bro 😎🟣
It must be royal blood!
No, thanks. I prefer music to theory. See: Brahms, Ravel, and the boys.
Sure. Always start with music and discover the theory behind it afterwards.
@@MusicMattersGB I hated theory classes. Just "tuned" out.. so to speak.