Truckee CA Challenger Jet Crash 26 July 21
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2021
- Correction#1: N/A= Not Authorized
Correction #2: 1800 AGL (circling mins at TRK) UPDATE: 6 total fatalaties.
LINKS:
VasAviation : • Challenger 605 crashes...
Flightaware: flightaware.com/live/flight/N...
LiveATC:www.liveatc.net/listen.php
Aviation Safety Network: aviation-safety.net/wikibase/...
CBS Local eyewitness:sacramento.cbslocal.com/video...
Security Footage:www.abc10.com/video/news/raw-...
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=5295000 
Наука
Note: conflicting eyewitness reports at this time regarding left or right bank turn before impact.
Yes, green shirt golfer says left bank nose down.
If he was category C then circling for the left downwind for 29 per the notes on the plate that is not available for C category. Their option would be 11 correct? Wonder why tower would even advise it. They know what’s legal And the golfer said left turn nose down. So sad all the way around
@@fredschwarz9502 Saw that report also, left bank - then "nose DOWN".
m.ruclips.net/video/6v16Wk1t9UA/видео.html
Hard video to watch, but at about :22 you can see the reflection of the jet pass by in the Jeep’s windshield about 4 seconds before the crash. Slow it down and watch it a few times (especially the tail) and it appears to be in a left bank in the reflection. I’m sure the feds will be looking very carefully at that .2 seconds of video.
Sad. Sounded like the engines where increased in thrust toward the end. Prayers and thoughts to the Families.
Juan is a perfect example of how "the little guy" produces far superior reporting versus mainstream sources. Thanks for all you do blancolirio
Absolute professionalism from Juan 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Those clowns are not promoted nor recruited because of merit, and so we get what we get.
@@cheddar2648 He should watch too much hair dye...
Retired from Truckee CHP a few years ago, you have no idea how many plane crashes we went to in that area... it was unbelievable
Appreciate your service! ✌🏼
Is that you Brother?!
…..and the fact that it crashed into a residential area, not a wooded area, along with the one in Olympic Heights awhile back. Hope retirement is treating you well Danno!!!
@@shawnmann9491 It's me... up here in
Coeur d'Alene now, 15 min from James
@@nevadadan4113 Any names released? I have friends in your area and Truckee. I am hoping none were on the flight.
Condolences for those who were.
2 fatal crashes at KTRK in the last 6 weeks…mountian flying is no joke.
Exactly
A circling approach is not ideal anywhere, and is especially dangerous in the mountains. You have to duck under the clouds and stay above minimums. Air Force pilots practice them occasionally but I’ve never flown one as a civilian.
Air density altitude doesn't help...
Hell....mountain climbing is no joke let alone flying.....
you got that right.
I have flown and instructed the 605. Even though it is a category C airplane, circling is performed at flap 30 setting which adds 7kts to the Vref, an additional 10kts is added due to circling maneuvering; this put the aircraft in a cat D category. Should not have tried this approach. Very sad.
Very interesting how what seems to be minor adjustments to speed can end up changing the dynamics of the landing approach.
5-Stars! ★★★★★ Great insight into yet another tragedy. I'm sure JB will pick up and report on you expertise!
@@fyrman9092 Low and slow is hard to recover from
Possibly dumb question: what should be the approximate minimum approach speed at this altitude (or density altitude)? Based on the ABC10 video, my back-of-the-napkin math put the ground speed at about 150 mph.
Is there something about the RNAV 11 that made it unavailable or undesirable? I must have missed that.
Not a pilot myself but I enjoy the depth of reporting and advice given, my thoughts are with the families of those lost.
Excellent reporting and breakdown as always Juan! The pilot talking on the radio (most likely the copilot) sounded like he was in a good mood. Sucks to think that a few moments later he’d be dead. RIP guys.
Victor does a heck of a job on his videos!
I agree, he is always on the ball!
They work very well together!
I was at KTRK the morning of the accident. To the FAAs credit, I personally heard the morning AWOS and it included an additional warning to pilots that actual visibility can be far less than what is reported. We took notice because to hear something outside a standard AWOS IS very unusual. We were going to do some MVFR pattern work. But tower said no…..back to the hanger……..and we were fine with that.
hangar.
@@dehoedisc7247 hanger
I flew challengers for 10 years… And I can attest that that wing is really designed for cruise operation, with no leading edge devices maneuvering at or near Vref do you need to watch your speed particularly combined with bank angles!
As always, Clear, concise, professional and unbiased! No editorializing, no B.S.! Thank you Juan! Stay Safe and Blue Skies!
This is exactly why Juan is my favorite content creator on RUclips. His buddy over there on the Jump to Conclusions channel…not so much.
@@bittnerbs which channel is that?
I like how this channel sticks to factual data and doesn’t editorialize or worse, name-call.
That's why I'm here. I feel bad saying both I hope you're well and God bless those lost, in the same comment. But both are true.
The 605 is a category D due to minimum speed with flaps 30 is 150 - above category C requirements so they were legally not able to perform this approach. Once in a position to land, then flaps 45 where you slow to ref + 10, somewhere around 125.
I'm not a pilot, and I have flying phobia but I love aircraft! So what happens when an aircraft is not rated to land at an airport as in this case?
Challenger is CAT C straight in CAT D circle to land
@@mikejohnson5900 You are not legally able to accept or perform the procedure. According to all the approach charts for that airport, all cat D aircraft are NA. John Cobb is correct in that the 605 is cat C for straight in approaches.
@@mikejohnson5900 Hi. The simple answer is : Go elsewhere. The long answer can be complicated.
Better question - why chose an approach that requires circling even in VFR or MVFR conditions, especially if the CAT was not authorized and even more so because a published RNAV (GPS) approach was available for the very runway they were circling for which was more closely aligned with the runway???
The CL605 is Cat D for circling. The approach plate indicates NA for CAT D circling. He should not have been doing an IMC approach to this airport in a CL605. The Challenger 600 series does not have good slow speed characteristics. This airport has many risk factors and unfortunately this one got him. This aircraft is essentially unrecoverable in a full stall. Having flown all of the CL60 series variants, I would have diverted to Reno in these conditions.
"driving a truck with sloppy steering" is a term I have heard some drivers say about that airframe
Thank you very much for the information.
Wow. The investigation will be interesting.
Not only is the CL600 subject to deep stalls (horizontal and vertical stabs blanked out by the stalling main wings), the main wings have a nasty habit of going from flying to a complete stall in a heart beat. Unbelievably, three CL600s crashed during certification. All three were deep stalls. One was on takeoff. The test pilot rotated abruptly and overshot his desired pitch attitude. The jet stalled and snap rolled into the ground.
@@221340 As much as I like flying the Challenger, your statement is sad but true. It is an airplane that you have to pay attention to and fly within the design envelope....or else.
Juan; this former USAF IP and widebody captain learned a couple items today, thanks for the good brief & insight, much appreciated!
I flew the 601 ER which was the earlier version of the 605. Never liked it, but that is another story. Went to bigger and better jets. On circling approaches, I always reminded FO to monitor AS, ANGLE OF BANK, ALTITUDE including RA.If any one of those parameters gets exceeded even for a second things go down hill quickly if not called out by the FO. I'm retired now, but still feel some tension when I listen to some of those accident tapes. I feel as though I am there . Eerie feeling...... My condolences to the families of the people who died.
What is an "FP"?
@@Graham_Wideman A typo? Reversed Pilot Flying or fumbled First Officer? Oh, it's there twice. Probably needs to train his pinky to not overshoot the O.
@@Graham_Wideman FO is the correct use of the short for First Officer. The two letters are next to each other on the keyboard , so easy mistake to make . Hope I did not confuse many readers.
@@jmp.t28b99 Thanks for clarifying. Now your story makes sense -- you're the pilot, and you remind the pilot-not-flying (PNF) to stay on top of the AS, ANGLE OF BANK, ALTITUDE including RA.
Got to stay on top of your game,no sucker punchers. So many nos here!!
I've flown into Truckee dozens of times. It's no joke especially with reduced visibility & in the Summer. So many variables and factors, pilots must be 100% on game. Factors in play: Summer temps/Density altitude, Winds, Terrain, Accelerated descent requirements, limited bail out options, oh, did I say density altitude. And then smoke. Juan is so right -- pilots/reports often minimize smoke but these fires are worse than clouds in that the smoke never really ends it just slowly fades, at best.
Yeeeea il just leave flying to you pros
Yep, this. Been near 100° the last few days and limited vis due to smoke until 27 Jul. Guessing Alt Density will be major contributing issue.
I lived in truckee for 20 years and it was shocking how many aircraft accidents there are, annually. I feel a lot of that is due to not enough respect for the altitude, the surrounding mountains, and the wind patterns.
@@jobytapia6388 Not a pilot yet, but how does Density Altitude effect a Lear Jet with Turbine engines? I can see a small piston or piston twin but a turbine having density altitude issues? what am I missing here?
@@Mikinct Less to do with the engine type than wing lift. And jets typically have less wing chord (lower lift) for lower drag at higher speeds. So, doubly bad for jets than slower piston airframes.
The moment you said "circle to land", I had a feeling where this was going...
Thanks for sharing this tragic mishap report with us. There are lessons for all pilots to take away. As a former Virginia Wing CAP, CFII-SAR pilot based in Virginia, I recall most of our fatal aircraft searches were for light piston aircraft gone missing in the Appalachian mountains. Many of those accidents were caused by pilots flying VMC into IMC conditions ...as the pilot attempted to duck under a LOW overcast which frequently obscured mountain tops. Flying airplanes in the mountains with low clouds & reduced visibility can be very unforgiving. Many times I recall becoming angry at the deceased pilots for needlessly killing 3-4 friends or family members because someone on board had firm commitments at home the next day, and could not afford to delay the flight for bad weather.
Thoughts go to the respective families. This is always so sad.
Thanks Juan, I was waiting for your report.
Thanks Victor.
Must be so discouraging for Juan to report on crash after crash after crash.
it was definitely breathtaking at ACCA seeing Dan go down, once word got back to people that everyone was ok, i had to leave to get back home for work
It looks that way to me
Agree… Spend more time with Pete and rest of family…take a break Juan… enough on accidents for a few days…
There is something to be learned from ever tragic accident. By him getting the stories told and speculating on what went wrong he could be saving countless people's lives. But if the guy needs a break, He needs a break. I don't know him personally.
That’s what I was thinking. How does Juan keep doing these? I was imagining he might be to the point of, “Ok, I just can’t do these anymore. I’m burnt out.” I’m feeling that way myself. Seems almost everyday something crashes.
As a former Fire Patrol Pilot in the Sierra mountains, it doesn't help when the fire guys are calling the field VFR when it's really IFR due to the smoke. No VFR, no fly, no pay. More than once I called BS on them on the radio, telling tower viz was way less than they were "reporting."
I work on the Challenger line for Bombardier at YUL. My thoughts go out to family, friends and the aviation community.
Tough to see an accident occur on something you worked on.
I used to work on them as well, 1980 to 2000, first as a technician then as a Field Service Representative.
Challenger is a cat C straight in and a cat D for circling …..never should have been shooting this approach. Man bad place to be! A ring camera picked up the audio and no change of power until just before impact……sounds like a stall…..with this critical wing no room for slow at all…..perhaps they were swapping Bleeds to the APU and forgot to change the power settings for the auto throttles. Then got slow due to this……..add to this swapping the bleeds without resetting the per setting ( climb, t/o cruise, etc) will turn off the auto throttles, no set time to start the APU but typically as you slow down below 200 KTS you will open the APU air and start the APU to run the power when on the ground and power the Air Conditioner so you don’t get large power fluctuations. that can bug your ears. You may not notice the autothrottles kicking off as it’s just a light and not a horn. If your busy looking for a runway you may think everything is A ok……..sighhhh ( the ring audio makes me think this was the case)
Maybe wait and start the APU after you're on the ground instead of messing with it when you are super busy?
@@derheeheehee6941 You are correct sir! They were way to busy just trying to find the runway and keep speed up. I doubt they even thought about the APU! I sure would'nt also there were only 3 ppl on board you need ac for that? don't think so,,,
The manufacturer’s checklist has the APU started & A/C Press system on the APU Bleed Air before landing to allow the engines to give max power (no engine bleed used for A/C Press system) if a go around is needed, especially if it’s single engine go around in the mountains where max engine power could be critical. If the crew decides to not start the APU before landing, then the crew has decided not to follow the FAA approved manufacturer’s checklist. That is generally not accepted as a good idea.
@@toddrader1698 thank you for that information.
Listen to M above. That Challenger is an Approach Category C straight in, but it is an Approach Category D for circling. They were shooting an Approach that was NOT AUTHORISED at that airport for that plane. I have shot many approaches there. The terrain is the restrictive factor. Cat D speeds are too fast there. The plane is just going too fast to stay within the protective areas and maintain safe speeds.
That Approach should have never been attempted.
Thank you Juan. Very informative. RIP to the Crew and passengers.
From a pilot hungry to learn, thank you for another clear as day explanation of what could've occured and the wisdom you share with us.
This is the only place to get the “real deal”, “low down”, on these crashes...
I see and feel the passion in your reporting, and the fighting off of the emotion(s) that wash over you as you report...
As always thoughts and prayers to those whom perished, to those whom anguish over their losses... and those who report on these incidents.
Thank you Airman Browne.
Ditto.....;(
Juan, I appreciate your efforts to be very thorough and concise, it’s very helpful. Terrible tragedy, and my sympathies to all parties involved.
Hey Juan. Great Video. Man i love the fact that you take the time to make these videos no matter where you are in the world or what your doing. I so love it
Very sad. Commercial Pressure must be a horrendous monster. RIP to all concerned.
Excellent review Juan. Absolutely appreciate your sitrep.
Juan, you have a talent for explaining in concise language events as they actually occurred, or your understanding of how they occurred. I appreciate the good work you do. Keep it up.
Thank you. You have a gift for delivering news. The information you share is very interesting & you explain the details very well more like a news investigative journalist. Only better because you present facts, without all the filler unlike a reporter that has to fill a time slot.
Always chilling to hear the voice of someone in the last moments of their life. Tomorrow is promised to no one.
Especially when they sound so chipper like this guy. Going from radar to tower control he is all "See ya!!" Then with tower control he's all "looking forward to seeing you guys". It wasn't in the cards.
Juan. I hope this continued reporting of mistakes made by others does not start weighing on you emotionally. It is an ever continuing fact that flying is an exact science and ever increasing performance abilities of aircraft reduce the time a pilot has to ponder the situation he may find himself in. As you often mention "Stay ahead of the aircraft". Thank you for a very concise report with the information that is available now.
Flying is three exact sciences particularly: tlar, swags, and wags. I know this is a serious topic and I appreciate your thoughtful comment but if I ever go down I want there to be some humor mixed in!
Great observation !!!
I was thinking the same thing as,this can get very depressing
Really good commentary on the risks of circling approaches and also on the gross inaccuracy of ASOS visibility data when smoke is present.
Juan. You are better than any news feed. Thank you. Wings up, fly safe.
Great reporting Juan I learn so much from you you make it easy for anyone to understand
A close friend who is a pilot sent me your video analysis. I am close to one of the passengers that was on this plane. I won't mention names. Devastating to say the least. Family man with wife, kids and was semi-retired and loves life. Avid dirt bike rider, golfer, etc. Miss him dearly. Pilots - you have a tough job and a lot of times - thankless. I appreciate what you guys/girls are faced with. Stay safe and make wise decisions.
“Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.”
Pilot errors… major causes
@@TheMilwaukieDan true. Too many variables and some skills are perishable. Pulling over to stop is not an option, so diligent planning is probably the next best option.😕
Down c212
Is your comment original or is it a quote, written by someone else? It is a good one either way.
@@JasonMtx2 From a NASA website: "Captain A. G. Lamplugh, a British pilot from the early days of aviation once famously said 'Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.'”
@@lizj5740
I like the quote thank you for sharing it & thanks for answering my question.
Excellent review. I’ve flown the Challenger for over 20 years. Terrible wing which again helped to cause a horrific crash. RIP
Excellent job putting all this information together so quickly, and a great refresher course in the hazards of circling approaches. Thank you.
It sounds to me like this pilot didn’t see it coming. The way you put together the story had me compelled until the end… Great job.
Professional analysis as always. Thank you and ...
✝️ Blessings to all ✝️
Did not have an extra 15 minutes to spare today... yet I watched the whole video anyway. Thanks for your take on this tragic accident. Please keep making these very informative vids.
Excellent perspective on this tragic accident. Learning by studying the mistakes of other pilots plays a crucial role in our accident avoidance strategy and techniques. Your aviation accident evaluations provide invaluable information that will surely help all of us pilots to be safer pilots. As Private Pilot I'd feel extremely confident flying with you anytime!
Phew.... there you are... was holding my breath for a bit...glad you're OK!
Again, excellent objective accident analysis with many thoughtful discussions on the challenges of this type of fast aircraft in limited unintentional inaccurate visibility reports.
Best wishes to all the 👪 involved and to mr. Brown for bringing us this info. Its gotta sting a bit knowing there where fatalities involved it can't be easy to speak about these crashes but you do a great job. Thank you for what you do sir
Juan, we couldn't be there without you. Thank you!
I have been in this same scenario and shooting the Approach 11 is the only way to have a stabilized approach. So many factors on the circle. God be with the families and all the first responders.
I always wonder where God was while they were flying the approach....
@@apilotspersective he is in the same place he is when all the children in St Jude are dying from cancer and all the children around the world are starving to death. Don't forget all the people he killed in the Old Testament. There is no such thing as the god of the Bible but there is some kind of supreme creator that certainly does not watch everything we do or say. The God we were taught to worship as children does not exist just like The Santa Clause we thought existed when we were kids. Remember how you felt when you found out there was no Santa Claus? Well get ready again because there is no God of the Bible.
God exists. God doesn’t exist. One of those statements is true. I pick the first one. God seems indifferent to whether we persist in these bodies or perish early, to whether we find joy or suffer. Perhaps one can discern the hand of God in certain interventions we call coincidence or miracle. We have free will to make our decisions given by God or otherwise. Freedom to choose our path, to challenge ourselves and set upon the world our will and desires. But in the end I think God wants us to return to him upon our deaths and be comforted. And that leads to a whole other discussion ... May these souls rest with our creator.
@@richardhowe5583 I could not agree more.
@@damonhp agree completely. I prefer to believe God exists and be wrong when I pass, than to not believe and be wrong when I pass.
This is not our home, we are merely passing through. I also pray those folks are in the presence of our creator and for peace for their families in the mighty name of Christ Jesus amen.
Great analysis of what happened. Thanks for that. A huge tragedy. My thoughts and prayers to all the people touched by this.
Thanks Juan.
Heartbreaking to hear what sounds like such a routine landing end in disaster. Prayers to family and friends of those onboard this aircraft.
Thanks for the factual reporting Juan. Makes your heart ache when this happens.
Thanks for the report Juan. My condolences to the families involved. Fly safe people. Too many crashes this season already.
Great work Juan, appreciate the timely report.
Thanks for the update. Pete’s channel is doing great.
Juan and fans- I lived in Truckee (as an aviatrix) for years and it is a curious place....very narrow high gap w a large lake...high winds at times and strange changes in weather creating deep snow banks. I can't think of a good reason to land there when Reno is sooooo close w lower altitude and better runways.
Y
Because money. I have friends in Truckee who's kid loves to hang out at the airport. They regularly see kids getting out of private jets on a Saturday lunchtime still in their soccer uniforms. Think about that. There's no way clients want the "hassle" of a forty minute drive from Reno when the can land at the airport that's a ten minute drive from their Martis Camp mansion. I live by KOAK and like to check where the private jet traffic is flying, I often see flight from Oakland to Monterey. That's someone paying $$$ to save two hours of driving so that they can play a round of golf on a Sunday afternoon!
@@ChrisCanMakeStuff Well this time they paid the ultimate price.
@@ChrisCanMakeStuff density altitude strikes again. Y
@@ChrisCanMakeStuff Everything high tech in Airplanes if fine until it fails.
There's Tahoe too....
We have a friend the flies a two engine jet into Truckee and often diverts to Reno due to the winds there.
Flight path is right over my house. We watch them come in all day long.
Thanks for the info! Two of the passengers were clients/friends of mine. They hand the world at their fingers tips. They could've been home safe on the couch, but instead they were living life to the fullest. Really taken in their prime. My prayers go out to the rest of the victims. Thank you for the video, I was wondering what happened.
Heard the VAS yesterday - thanks for being so quick with your report!
Juan, thank you for a detailed and helpful analysis. Here at McCall Idaho ASOS was reporting 10 miles but we really only had 5 or less with forest fire smoke. The detectors need an upgrade.
Challenger 605 is a cat D on a circle…… 150Knots Gear Down Flaps 30
Thank you! Learning a lot from your videos. Came from the San Diego Lear 35A video.
Outstanding summary of KTRK accident. Thank you!
very sad ,condolences to the passengers and crew.
I've lived in Reno twice. Even the airport there is a tricky landing because of all the mountains and the only good place to land is in Stead, where I lived right by the airport. May those lost rest in peace
I lived near Reno in the early 80s.
The Washoe Zephyr wind was amazing. I saw a 2 story apartment building framed, but not sided. Overnight, it was blown down into a pile of lumber.
@@kevinmoore4887 I worked at the El Dorado doing security and yes, the winds in Stead were pretty hard. I also worked as a volunteer for the Lemon Valley FD.
Thanks, Juan. Always the best info. Victor too!👍
I really like your channel, I learn every post! thank you so much
An MDA of 7700 and field elevation of 5900 feet puts you about 1800 above field elevation, not 700 feet.
Well said, Juan. I'm a captain on a Falcon2000, and although we are trained and certified to do circling approaches, we as a flight department do not do them.
We returned home from ACCA into Reno on Southwest on Sunday at 2:30pm. The fire smoke was the worst I have ever seen here. Couldn't see anything out either side of the plane. Never even saw the Nugget to the left on the way in, and didn't see anything until we passed the Grand Sierra Resort on the right on short final for 16R.
Monday (Crash Day) was only marginally better here in Reno.
My house is 4.1miles from the approach end and 800 feet higher than runway 07 at Reno and we could not see the airport at all on Sunday or yesterday.
Thank you for another excellent explanation of the airport, approach, and issues.
You are so right - the show does not have to go on - no old bold pilots.
The customer isn't always right...
Except for my old man, apparently.
Taught himself to fly in a neighbor's Lake amphibian at 13-14 years old when they were living in Mexico... first-flight solo! Apparently, the neighbor had gotten afraid of it and had stopped flying it.
On a group flight headed to Tampa from Miami in the mid-60s, I had to ride with a friend of his. Thunderstorms got so bad, his friend chickened out; my father flew through and on to Tampa.
I think he took all of my uncles up, and made all of them puke : ) One of them said, after a dive over the ocean, that all he could see was "them picking the instrument panel out of my chest!".
Had his final checkride for multi-engine instrument with Mary Gaffney in late 60s; scared HER when landing in a storm with crosswind when he used the leading main gear to turn the aircraft at touchdown.
Did some crop-dusting in Arkansas and flew amphibians for Chalk's out of Miami in the late '60s.
Joined the Army at 32 in 1969 and flew Cobras in Vietnam; a lot of Super-8 footage shot by his front seat with terrain visible through the TOP of the canopy, AND, he was shot down... at NIGHT.
We built a Baby Great Lakes in the garage in '71-'72; he was flying it once and the carb iced up, engine shut down. He dove straight at the ground until the airspeed was sufficient to start turning the prop AND it DID re-start. Switched to an injector (Lake?) after that! I went to school the next week and ran into a friend that had witnessed the whole thing from his house : )
After retirement from the Army (he was head of Helicopter Gunnery Instruction for a time after Vietnam), flew for P.H.I. out of New Orleans long enough to go down in the Gulf THREE times. Finally had to stop due to vision. He's 84 now, unless he croaked since the last time I spoke to him : )
@@lordofthewoods - Wow! Amazing Dad!
@@nadogrl: Sad (or maybe not : ) part is, my parents divorced in '78 when I was 17... coincidentally JUST old enough to get a pilot's certificate, and I could've flown a 150 with some rudder-pedal extensions... and maybe a BOOSTER SEAT... probably by age 6! But I rarely saw him after that... and he is the ONLY instructor I would've trusted, so it never happened.
Not saying there are no equals out there, just that I didn't personally KNOW any! Who knows, though... maybe that's why I'm still alive : )
Oh, and I didn't even get to the part where the ridiculous ending of the Vietnam war cured me of my military aspirations, which were: fighter pilot > astronaut! Of course, we don't even GO into actual SPACE any more (in my highly-informed opinion : ), so I would have ended up a highly-frustrated Intergalactic Traveler anyway.
After man landed on the Moon in '69, I calculated that I could be on a one-way trip to the far reaches of the Universe by the time I was 35. After all, you can go TWICE AS FAR if you DON'T COME BACK! : )
A Learjet was lost a Truckee some years ago, also doing a circle to land approach.
2005. N781RS
On the 35's i flew. Vref for the 30 degree turn was 150 plus we used, illegal to do that circling due Cat D.
Thanks Mister Blanco, I really enjoy your videos
Always informative and a great deal of insightful reasoning! Thank you for sharing your opinions Juan. Very much appreciated.
Winds were stated to be three knots. I watched the press conference and it was claimed that visibility was not an issue.
Sad.
So sad my heart goes out all that has been effected by this Tragedy
Thanks again Juan for another thoughtful and well put together video.
Too many pilots are lost each year attempting circling approaches.
I'd be interested to know what the minima is on the RWY 11 RNAV(GPS)?
I am a spatial guy. Narrative is great in an audio only format. If I’m watching a video, Regardless of topic I want maps, imagery, to get oriented to the terrain. Too few content creators do this. This channel should be required watching for any creator with content referencing geography in any form. Bravo!
Juan said it best "circling approach needs both VFR and IFR procedures/techniques." Eyes are outside the cockpit (VFR technique) to maintain visual with runway. In difficult conditions, this requires additional focus. This can easily cause missed details inside the cockpit (IFR techniques) such as airspeed and attitude. A fast jet can get out of hand quickly. RIP
Pilot monitoring duties are ESSENTIAL to safety, and a circling approach in crap weather at night especially…Trust me, I did them in three different turboprops, plus the 604/605. It’s a frequently deficient maneuver in training and checking in the schoolhouse. Godspeed
Wife flys a 172 and will only do Truckee in clear weather and in the morning to avoid afternoon winds. We are at Donner Lake and were hearing the thunder that day so I was wondering if the plane got caught in a downdraft.
It probably did. We had crazy weather that day, wind picked up and then a quick flash flood less than an hour after the plane went down
Just watched this. Maybe late to the party but I’ve flown a 601 into TRK with gusty winds and ceilings lower than min vectoring altitudes so we had to do an approach with a circle. Would be happy to give you insights in a pvt conversation.
There’s debate about whether Challengers are C or D circle. Manufacturer authorized speeds at Flaps 45 up to 40 bank is REF. They teach REF + 20 at school though.
Also, there’s a note that’s easy to miss on the RNAV 20 chart…Cat C circle SE is N/A which means that left downwind to 29 the tower approved is wrong.
There was a Challenger that went into KTRK yesterday (Thursday) and flew a circle to land to 11 from the RNAV 20. Difference is that the approach was slower and more stabilized all the way in. The downwind was much wider and the base turn was 3 or so miles from the abeam point rather than 1 mile.
Thank you for some additional clarification of the communications and what the pilot was doing.
"NA" always means "Not Authorized" on NACO approach charts. It's close to "Not applicable", but, there is a slight difference
Correct, see correction above.
I’ve got lots of 605 time. Ref speeds are high on this plane and circling is typically 150 knots all day long……circling should not have been done at this airport. Sad day for the families dealing with this
@blancolirio - great update, as always sir.
Question - While AWOS is an automated service (if I understand you correctly), you also said Truckee is now a towered airport. Wouldn't the ATC communicate additional advisories for pilots regarding smoke?
Awesome briefing Juan, thanks!!
How many times has Juan Browne admonished pilots: "Don't let the client push you!" Condolences to families, loved ones, Tower & FAA personnel and responders. Have humans exceeded our technological boundaries?
"Have humans exceeded our technological boundaries?" Yes, Ever since Ikarus. Some always do. Juan is more like Daedalus, he got the job of reporting about it to others in the hope to prevent at least one of the unnecessary accidents.
Still, the message isn’t getting thru…..
Only the strong survive... Until they don't.
Adding my condolences, for what it's worth..... I can't imagine flying in this horrendous smoke. It must be very challenging to land at Truckee in the best of conditions. An aircraft like that would be pushing the envelope, for sure. Thanks for your analysis, lirico. Makes perfect sense to me.....
And agreed, your friend that maps out the flight and adds ATC audio does an incredible job. Cheers...
@@davidwebb4904 Humans are inherently illogical and stupid beings. As long as we do not have "The Matrix" to steer us free from our own follies - yes. You are correct.
So sad! They seemed happy and excited to arrive 1 minute prior. Hope to see you again out at the RAR Juan!
Thanks, Juan, I need to follow this so I can learn what happened.
Thanks for the review. I flew this S/N for around 2 years and Challenger since 14 years. This plane loves speed…
That very last part of this vid was the same thing my dad would do to me every time a plane flew over. He was an aviation mechanic in the Marines for 9 years. Good memories💙
Friend became a Challenger sim instructor, he came from airline world. He said it was shocking the difference in culture operating biz jets.
Please enlighten us 👍
@@keithhoss4990 He said the casual way, there was pretty much no planning for a journey.
@@flybobbie1449 Ahh. Unfortunately that’s the pilot / co-pilots job 😂
It depends on the account you are working on, what the safety culture is like, who you are flying with and what you are willing to accept as safe. If you accept a substandard and horrible safety culture, that is what you will have. If you fly with a professional that demands high standards and you do the same, you will be working in a very safe environment. The FAA just recently shut down a 121 cargo company last month due to an unsafe operation so there are unsafe operations in the 121 world as well.
Thanks for the update! Circling approach.....
Another excellent presentation, Juan...many factors to consider and learn from, to be sure.
I have noticed that your first impressions of an accident, tend to be the correct cause. That must be because of the years of experience in flying the various aircraft you have in in the past, from military to now the 777. The happy tone in the radio calls, makes this tragedy all that much more sad. I feel so very sorry for the family and friends of those who perished, and extend my deepest condolences.
It's NOT the 'happy tone', it is 'unprofessional tone'. Many pilots play 'cool' and use strange tone, inflection, cadence...whatever...and those the the folks who I have found lack knowledge and skill...and are always willing to bust the Regs...like these pilots with a 'happy tone'.
@@fahadfaisal7855 They did sound calm- no stress, no yelling over the radio or panic in their voices.
Heart breaking hearing their last words don’t want my son to start flying this year especially here locally in Nevada County
In flying as with many other activities there is danger lurking outside the lines. With proper training and the correct attitude, most of the danger can be mitigated. But make no mistake: Flying is fun, but it is not a game. The price paid for trying to make up one's own rules is very dear indeed. If your son has the right attitude, have no fear! He will be as safe flying as doing many of the other activities young people engage in.
The basin this jet flew into is tight for maneuvering even the slowest aircraft. The additional turn radius of a fast aircraft means steep bank angles and high g-loading. Their decision to fly a circling approach into such a challenging environment led to their demise. Let us all learn from their mistake and not make it ourselves. It is the best way to honor their memory.
Thank you Juan for another unbiased report everyone can learn from. GOD BLESS.
Thanks for posting, Juan.