I wasn’t nearly as big of a fan of LoL2, but man that title was magic when I found it. I’m playing Breath of Fire 4 right and have been enjoying myself as well.
Shadow Hearts still has one of my favorite battle systems. It's a perfect compromise between old school menu based and a battle system that requires paying attention. Some say it's too QTE-like but I never felt that way. As for length, I wouldn't say there's a length for me. Be it 20 or 100 hours, what matters to me is staying engaged and immersed into the story, the world, characters, etc. There's definitely "too long" though. I'm a massive DQ fan but DQVII was veeery close to that.
Length can definitely be a thing imo, especially the final dungeon. I feel like so many JRPGs make out the last dungeon in the game a huge slog. They're usually massive, have too many puzzles or other mechanic making it drag even more, they only have 1 music track that gets old because they take too long to go through... I always feel my hype die down for the story's ending or the final boss battle, because of these last minute slogs. I know most have boss rush gallery to spice things up which I do like, but I'd still rather have smaller dungeons or some straighforward level with a hype music track
@@Walamonga1313 For sure, or when a specific dungeon just becomes harder than the rest of the game and is more of a test of endurance than skill. Case in point: Cave to Rhone in Dragon Quest II.
A lot of people don’t count it until the most recent entry, but I’ll say the Yakuza series is a JRPG if the Bouncer is a one :P. I think it does side content pretty well. You can do it at your own pace, and most side content is clearly defined so you know what you gotta do and if you hate the bowling mini game or something you can just ignore it. But if you wanna do the side content, it easily can double the length of the game if you don’t wanna leave Kamurocho just yet.
Grandia's art style is the style that made me want to buy a PlayStation and want to play RPG's. I used to see images of it on gaming magazines and I hated that I couldn't afford the game as a kid.
@@moisescorral8297 I haven't played FFXI, bit it was released before XII and it's an mmojrpg on top on that. My point was that I haven't seen no other game (that's not a mmorpg) has done was FFXII did with the combat.
@@emmychansuper GW is not an MMORPG. It has instance area's and dungeon. Not a cohesive world. Only you and your party which could be with AI instead of players visit a region. Its not a connected world with 100s of players you can meet in the field.
Awesome topics discussed in this video Derek! The battle system in the Atelier Ryza games has some great real time elements that keeps the player engaged throughout the encounters. You can add normal attacks and also block to increase a special meter that is so satisfying. Hope you get a chance to play the Ryza series eventually!
Man, the physical thing is tough now. I also just feel wrong buying digital. I love having a shelf of boxes. But the PS4/Xbox One generation basically ended what we knew as a physical copy. Discs are glorified codes. There’s no manual. It’s just a snap case w/ box art. But I still buy them.
I still love Legend of Dragoon's addition system. Keeps you engaged even during random battles. Never played any of them, but I guess Shadow hearts' approach is somewhat similar. Though, with LoD you could eventually close your eyes and listen for the timing cues. Definitely prefer physical. Scariest part isn't just digital. I'd still take a steam library over the push for cloud-based where you don't even own the data and can't access anything w/o a strong internet connection. It's why I won't be touching the Kingdom Hearts games on switch.
1:06 SuperDerek: "Every once in a while you've got to shift gears, so to speak." SuperDerek: *Shows Xenogears footage of Gears gameplay * Me: "I see what you did there"
One of my personal gripes with ff7r , i played the original and it feels like 60% filler , stretched out dungeons , busywork so 35 feels like 70 h. My all time favourite valkyrie profile , 35 with postgame , perfekt battlesystem. Next to it witcher 3 or xenoblade 1+2 are around 100h wouldnt want it any other way . Best battlesystem imo is from super robot taisen og saga: endless frontier , just piure fun. Really like your content greetings from germany
Teehee he said shift gears and Xenogears was on the screen, that made me chuckle harder than it should. Combat system I'd like to see come back was the Shadowhearts games or Legend of Dragoon. Also talking about cancelling enemy attacks in the line...I just recently started playing Blue Reflection: Second Light and it does that combat similar to that. Also I wouldn't mind seeing more of the old school turn base games. I feel like one of the most under rated games I've played recently that isn't AAA is probably a game called Caligula Effect 2 (it is persona lite imho), but I dunno that game is good imho, decent length and alright sidequests, but the music is fantastic for the type of game. The other game on my list and I do PC game is Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous it just a good dnd type game. Too much filler is when it becomes not fun and more of a job. XBC2 is kinda in that for me, to get some of the Blades I have to grind and grind and it does get tedious. But other than that.. that game was still good imho.
Two things that come to mind for filler are menus within menus within menus where they all mostly do the same, but don't really add anything. Also, sidequests that give you really nothing to help or minimal exp points for where you are in the game
Hey Derek. I always enjoy you measured and thoughtful takes on JRPG's. I don't know how you do these question sessions, but I'd like to ask you a question, if I may. Incidentally, it's something Erik Landon has already done a video on. The question is: What would your dream JRPG be like? Which elements of which games would you sandwich together to create something that appeals to you directly? Perhaps you'd like your dream JRPG to include something you haven't even seen in JRPG's before? I mean, the answer would be fascinating. I'll extend that question and ask: Which JRPG you've played so far in your gaming life has been the closest thing to your dream JRPG? Something that felt like it was made just for you? That game for me was Persona 4. I mean, a bunch of kids in a sleepy rural Japanese town who have to create their own excitement, and then become investigators in bizarre series of seemingly supernatural murder cases? On top of it it was a relationship simulator with a bunch of colorful main and side characters in which you really had to take time to get to know everyone. That game felt so tailor-made for my tastes it was almost scary. Anyways, I look forward to your video on the subject if you consider my question worthy of a response.
It's interesting that you talked about classic battle systems you'd love to bring back, because I played about the first hour of Grandia III last night, and even just doing the tutorials and a few random battles the combat in that game feels *so* good. And I think the reason filler became prevalent in the PSone and especially PS2 eras is because game length was considered the most important aspect in a lot of reviews at the time, and from many regular players as well, so that's why we'd get things like Tales of Symphonia making you go back to older dungeons to progress the story.
Yeah my fave battle systems have always been the Grandia games as well. Man I miss that series so much. I love how even though it’s turned based, you can’t just sit back and not pay attention, you have to strategize and be ready to counter enemies. I have the Switch collection but I’m hoping there’s a new game released 😩 I know it’s probably not gonna happen tho
On battle systems, Ikenfell has an interesting mix of timed attacks and character placement. For such small combat arenas I felt like there was a decent amount of combat variety. Surprisingly good story too!
Hey Derek, I am totally with you with the whole physical copy thing. I’ll just go pick a game off the shelf and read the back cover. I loved when games used to come with the little guidebooks inside. I have printed off some cover art for games that I got used from gamestop. My collection is not near as extensive as yours, but it's growing. I just got Trails of Cold Steel IV for Christmas. Thanks for the great video.
Shout out for the Xenogears battle system. Fun combos to unlock with experimentation flashy ending moves and storing up turn points to activate a chain of all your cool moves.
Bro, I feel that wanting something physical sentiment in my soul. It's not something you can describe, but when I hold a copy of my favorite games from my childhood in my hand and relive all the great memories it's incredible. These feeling have only gotten stonger as I've got older to the point where I make it a point to buy physical copies of great games I already own digitally whenever I see them at my local game store.
I really enjoy the thing in Trails where critical hits, status effects and other things occur on certain turns, and you have to try and interrupt turns.
Thanks for another great video Derek. Since I follow your channel quite a while I think your video content became a lot better "recently". (maybe since a year? god i lost every sense of time in this pandemy :D ). really good stuff.
Ah, that Saturn haul! I recently saw that video again. The algorithm said I should watch it lol. I bought a Japanese Saturn because of that video just the other day with Panzer Dragoon Zwei. Love your channel, Derek.
Great to see The Bouncer getting some love. It’s obviously flawed, but so much fun. The last time I was in England, I got a copy from CEX for like £1.99 and played the hell out of it
I think filler is also really important for the passage of time. It would be weird if the villian ran off with a magical item and then 1 or 2 hours later you're being introduced to their demon generals or whatever they've summoned to help them without out them feeling like bad filler before the final boss by putting some world building filler or a b plot in there for some time to pass, it allows your mind to fill in some blanks of "oh these demon generals were summoned and have built up their own dynamic and character relationships with the main villian" and it'll be easier to believe than if they showed up sooner rather than later not a brillient example since i just made up as vague of an idea as possilbe but yeah hope I got what i mean across
Filler isn’t really a positive term though- it suggests grinding or empty duplicated content. I would much prefer LESS and each be hand crafted and offer something that adds to the game- highlights mechanics/character development/art design we might’ve missed otherwise. When it’s just half a dozen quest templates copied & pasted, it feels cheap and uninspired- but then marketing will be sure to promote the game as a 120 hour epic (even though 80 hours are unoriginal trophy chasing).
@@residentevilclone filler has become a dirty word these days due to so much bad filler, Witcher 3 has an absolute shit ton of side quests that are just helping village people out but due to the general quality of them being so high and feeling like their own little short tv show length adventures they work really well theres definately alot of bad out there but I think good filler benefits a game alot be it with pacing or world building, problem is getting that balence right is hard and everyone has different tolerence levels you could also just not care about trophies (the first plat i got was ass creed 2 and ever since getting those feathers I've stopped caring with only gravity rush and spiderman ps4 being the other plats I got which were 100% accidental)
For me the latter Megaman Battle Network and StarForce games have the best battle systems. Golden Sun TLA is pretty close too. Other honorable mentions I would give... maybe Panzer Dragoon Saga, Radiant Historia and SRW Endless Frontier: EXCEED Treasure of the Rudras prefix and sufix system was awesome to experiment with also.
I remember seeing videos of the Bouncer and it honestly made me so hype for the PS2 regrettably never got to play it and it kind of faded into extinction by the time I bought a PS2.
Great topic. Super relevant for me. My lady bought me FF7 Remake and as a die hard ff7 fan, I am left DRAINED by the repetitive filler and find it hard to return to. Literally playing it 3 hrs a month because of this. There's side- filler but then there's forced filler. Ugh. Hurts my soul lol
I was going to get that, then no steam so waiting for steam. Also heard the pc version was a horrible edition. I pray FF16 & DQ12 are better(and on steam) I got other games to play while I wait so not a big deal
I can relate. But in defense of the remake, I can say the middle of the game is definitely side-story driven, but you might like the end portion. It's not our perfect realization of a remake, but play it through. If it's any consolation, if you expected a 1-1 remake, you are not gonna get it. No damn way. Still, try to stick through it until the end.
@@SwagimirPutin Thanks for that, ima push through then. Ironically...I dont think I would have liked a 1:1 remake unless they really overhauled the random battles/combat system. If the side stories flesh out the world so that i can see the world from angles never before seen THEN I'll enjoy that. I just hate climbing up floors and floors of enemies and would prefer random encounters with the swirly fight transitions lol.
Totally agree. I loved the game in general, but almost all sidequest were super boring, and some of the main story as well. Sadly, there's some people who just want to spend a lot of time playing a game, regardless if it's fun or not. This can be done with post-game content and that's fine I guess, I normally don't spend that much time post-game anyways with so many new games and so little time. The same happened with Assassin's Creed Origins, I couldn't play it more than some hours because you get filler content from the beginning, and from what I've read, Odyssey and Valhalla are even worse.
@@drowningin Yea, im not doing this exclusive platform thing. Im sticking with steam. Hopefully by the time that happens they have the bugs fixed and quality of life mods. And maybe a mod that replaces Cloud, Barret, and Tifa with Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo lol
I don't mind the way Trails handles side quests because most of the filler content is optional. What I don't like is when games require you to repeat content for the main story. DQXI is jumping to mind for me right now. I still enjoy that game but as it goes on the repeating dungeons and bosses get very very repetitive. SMT Nocturne is still my favorite battle system. The newer SMT games don't quite nail what I enjoyed about Nocturne.
Replaying Legend of Dragoon for the first time since I've beaten it probably 12 years ago. Still, it has one of my favorite battle systems. That game is pretty deserving of a modern remake.
I agree on the physical. I feel like part of the gameplay experience is going to Walmart/Target/GameStop to buy the game, or excitedly checking my package in the mail, then putting it in my PS4 and hearing it read the disc. Idk that's just me.
Filler isn't always a choice to play it. Some games have interesting main missions with cool characters and story. But in order to do the next sidequest you have to do boring filler. Example: You meet a resistance group that wants to overthrow a local mayor that is a Tyrantto progress the story. In order to do this storymission they require you to do a certain number of tasks for the resistance members. These tasks all come to gathering ingredient drops and materials from random drops. When you've done these boring tasks you play a cool story mission. For the next mission however you need to do another 5 mandatory fetchquests. Another way of boring filler is to make enemies way to powerful unless you do fetch quests and collection flags, eggs.or whatever in order to get.materials.to upgrade equipment. If you don't do the boring filler your attacks will do 1hp damage to monsters in the new story area because your equipment doesn't meet the threshold. The worst offenders are game that are aware of this and although you spent 60 dollars on the game, you need to do filler for a couple of hours or buy the materials as DLC in order to progress the "real game", the "fun game".
Really loved Tales of Destiny for that reason when I first played, decades ago. Personaly I love Grandia's system, being able to move out attacks or cancel the enemies.
I will say this about ff7 remake- while it took me around 10 hours in 1997 to finish the midgar part ... NOW it took me 40+ (+5 or so hours with yuffie dlc) in the ff7 remake on the ps5. I wouldnt consider that "fillers" I would consider that making the world come a live, making Midgar feel like a real town, in fact when you roam around on the ground (in 4k especially) you realize how big the city is and realistically detailed that magically it feels REAL and full of people it must be. I´m gonna assume the developers felt overwhelmed with the project and decided to stick with Midgar for episode 1 and felt like people had waited too long to just make it a 20 hour playthrough (which it could have been) and while FF7 back on the ps1 was 1/4 in lenght and it was an emotional roller coaster of BAM BAM BAM BAM events non stop - and I get why some people prefer this adventure of non stop moments - this ff7 remake felt slower paced and more fan service for the people who already know X,Y and Z and wanna re-live the moments of being in the ff7 world again. My only complaint is... my first playthrough I used RED XIII (part of the main cast and has his own story & town) the whole game after I got him and in ff7 remake he just push levers and cant join the party as playable ... they could have made something about how he was brought & captued to shina, or a mini game with him OR SOMETHING. Instead we get an optional character in the original FF7 - Yuffie- as a playable hero with her own story in the ps5 version- very confusing. Does this mean Vincent is gonna be a DLC character as well in a memory ? Zack? how far will they go with these paid DLC stuff?! I mean, when I put in my ps4 ff7 remake disc in my ps5 I got a free graphical upgrade BUT the yuffie part wasnt included, had to pay 15 dollar for it (120 kr). That doesnt taste right with me. They announce the remake, they delay it multiple times, they announce its coming in episodes, they charge for unique summons as pre-orders, they release the game (finally), they then release paid DLC for it that include extra story even an en extra ending that shows the main cast finally arrive at Kalm! Im a bit worried about episode 2, not about fillers, but how they will charge for summons, extra story, extra characters etc!
I actually really liked the Mario RPG combat system(/Luigi, paper, etc.) I think the series hit a good balance of keeping combat engaging while not overdoing the frequency of fights so as to not make them boring.
On the action command system, have you played the first two Paper Mario games? I feel those two games do the interactive button thing well since each attack has a different set of buttons and inputs to keep things interesting.
I've been pro-digital since 2018. Yes, it's a hard life to live but it makes carrying those invisible objects easier. Though I do miss artbooks. That I do still collect! Great video as always and here's to 75k subs!
Oh geeze, the Bouncer... I don't think I ever played it myself, but I had a friend who kept complaining about the escort missions, so I've kinda had a bad impression of it. But then again, he did keep playing it, so I guess it couldn't have been that bad. I do like having the real banana, too. But as the years go by and my shelves fill up and my backlog keeps growing I've grown more interested in owning the games I have a real emotional connection to. Other stuff I'm happy to grab digital if I can find a good sale.
Bravely Default & Octopath Traveler are my favorite battle systems. I've been playing Radiant Historia, and not only is the story & time travel gameplay amazing, the grid turn based battle system has quickly become a favorite. You can easily avoid battle as you see monsters & can stun them. But the battles are so fun I've fought every enemy I've seen so far in the 25hrs I've been playing
@@SuperDerek with how expensive 3DS have become I'd be too scared to modify mine. The easiest/cheapest way is the emulator on PC which is legal if you own the game I believe, at the least ethical
That opening! The answer for me is: pacing. FF6/7 for example does pacing so well further DQ5, 8 and 11 and trails as Derek says are GREAT FILLER i love good world building.
While it’s not my fave entry in the series, I think the amount of optional side content that FFX had was just about perfect. I don’t remember how many hours it would be just to play through at a high enough level to beat the game, but I know that all the additional sphere grid stuff, celestial weapons, monster arena, blitzball, etc aren’t necessary. It’s prob what, a 50 hour game? But I’ve put 150 hours in a file and enjoyed it (for the most part, some of those weapons’ mini games are despicable) because I knew it was side content that didn’t really matter other than for completion. I also enjoyed blitzball and built teams into the level 70s.
I loved The Bouncer but that might be because I spent my own hard earned $60 on it back in the day, loved the graphics and story just wish there was better gameplay!
FILLER: The Witcher 3' has some of the best done "filler" in gaming. And that's because the "filler" is not filler. Everything in that game, side quests and all, are interictal to the story and the world at large. COMBAT: Two of the better traditional RPG combat systems that I've come across in my time (IMO) playing have been the button based system utilized in the original PSX Valkyrie Profile and (as you mentioned) the damage extending/technique stacking system used in The Legend of Dragoon. UNDERRATED GAME: 13 Sentinels: Ageis Rim... If you've played it, then no further comment is really needed. You already know.
Even though I strongly prefer physical, having a halfway decent PC has come in clutch for a lot of things for me as a Switch/Xbox player, like catching up with the whole Trails series, Persona 4 Golden, and emulating retro games that are insanely expensive.
@@SuperDerek right!?!? The thing I’m most excited for is the open world map that you traverse around. That’s something I miss the most from older rpgs.
Grandia 2 had some of the most fun turn-based combat. Having the chance to flat-out cancel an enemy's attack was a lot more engaging to me than timed button presses.
Economizing encounters! Make random encounters more of an exception and not a rule, and utilize tedium-saving ideas like in Earthbound (like an option to automatically win an encounter with a much weaker opponent).
Great video, Derek! Excellent answers, no wonder you're "super" 😅... It's really hard for me to decide on a perfect battle system, but I think of one and I'd like to name a few that I've met and loved! The FF XIII - XIII2 battle system for me is the best in the franchise, because I saw in these systems the ideal balance between action and turn-based combat that Square seeks to apply in final fantasy... but the system only reaches its peak after dozens of hours playing (both XIII and XIII 2). But when you understand the mechanics and have a party with several different techniques, combat becomes frantic, strategic, pleasurable and requires a lot of attention. I also really liked the combat of Valkyrie Profile 2 that inserted arenas with a tactical bias and the quick switch to the traditional combat of the franchise. I also really liked the combat of The Last Remenant, especially the assembly of small squads (which reminded me of the ogre battle) where you don't have direct control of your secondary soldiers, giving a random aspect of the attacks as if it were a roll of dice in a section of Dungeos and Dragons. And I love so much that you can group all the enemies on the map and do a single colossal and epic battle! But I think the system I love the most in an RPG is the Grandia franchise system indeed! It's so dynamic and fun to cancel your opponent's attacks, keep hoping your character's icon overcomes the enemy's and you gain more turns... it's also great to separate the state of evasion (which influences your dodge I believe) agility (which influences the speed with which your icon moves to reach your turn) and movement (which influences how much the character runs in the battlefield without getting tired)... in short, it's a fight that I consider perfect! because it combines action with turn-based battle very well and have a greater sense of control than in FFXIII. But the only thing I wanted was for there to be an active battle option in Grandia's combat, that is, when a teammate's turn came, the battle didn't freeze, but rather entered a kind of "bullet time" which would keep even more the sense of urgency, tension and would make us always think about the turns ahead especially in a boss fight. I think for me this would be the perfect combat system in an RPG.
I’m a “things” person as well Owning digital feels like a long distance relationship. You know it’s there but you can never truly feel, touch, and enjoy a game like one could physically. But that’s just me
Its a Tonel Shift also where in the narative, you have specific scenerio's that are heavy in dramatics and tension, and then certain area's in the game have to sort of give you that down time from those hype moments. I do actually welcome alot of the filler in PS1 rpgs beacuse it gives you a chance to reflect upon a major development in the story, well also shifting gears with a new theme and even some times an entirely new location in the world. It is always most like following book, when your done with Chapter 5 and there is a turning point, Chapter 6 introduces many new elements and asthetics from the game from a narative and design perspective that kind of draws you into a new aspect of the game. In the case of FF VII remake, I think alot of the filler was just basic use of padding with extra long dungeons and humerious banter between characters and it can get quite repetitive over time. Ps1 games on the other hand in my opinion are paced much more consistency, adding new dimensions to the game but also incorporating tonel shift in narative more effectivly. But its kind of unfair comparison because what can you do with a game only based on Midgar when most PS1 rpgs you have the entire world to scope out.
Totally agree with you on the steam library thing derek I'd much rather have a physical video game library than a digital one, I wouldn't trade my physical library for any digital one.
I get it the connection with something physical . That attachment u feel it in real life then u transition easier into the virtual world . For you get people all we know is apps and clicking on it to download, and getting it ASAP. However u can't send it to a friend u can't share and that sort of kinda kills the value of it that u can't even let your buddy play or even sell it . However u can always redownload your game on any PC u can't lose it and ur cloud saves are synced though sometimes there are glitches with those I wish there was a way to backup saves
Hot take, but I like FF1's combat mechanic where if you target an enemy and they die before your action comes up, you miss. It really forces you to pay attention and economize who will attack who.
Love your channel! Have you played Shadowverse Champions Battle on Switch? Its a card battle RPG and i feel its very underrated. But i do know card battle is not for everyone but ive been loving the game so far, theres alot to learn though.
btw speaking of video game hunting, I know plenty of "collectors" (...and friends) who started trade and sell/buy from each other instead. the best place to find great games isnt always that "retro store".
As much as I agree with you and enjoyed my playthrough, there were a few very frustrating fights in there to me, so much more so than in the original (to avoid spoilers, I don't think I need to name them anyway). I did find myself grinding a little simply for the combat though. That's a rare fear in modern RPGs.
For me it ranges from one JRPG to the next. Really depends how much story they add into it. One JRPG can make 100 hours feel short while the next can make 100 hours feel treacherous long. So personally I want more story. Side quests can start to feel like filler too much unless they incorporate side quests into the story.
I still have a bit of the old "I like to physically have the game" mentality left over. What finally broke me was the day 1 patches. Once it became apparent that if in 20 years I plugged in an old PS3 and inserted a disc, I still wouldn't be able to just play the game, I figured what was the point. The Switch is the last bastion for physical games now. While I would rather get an indie game on steam for $3, there are a few games I want to keep forever or allow friends to play by lending them the cart. A few Switch games are now shipping with day 1 patches, so I avoid those. But yea, if I can't use the physical game to play the game, there's no longer a point in physically owning it in the first place. You're still at the whims of the companies just as if you bought it digital.
Interesting mention of the Trails series with regards to filler. I was playing through cold steel throughout the past year, and I finally had to stop halfway through 3. Story was progressing too slowly for me. If I’d written the story of the first two, I could have condensed everything into a single game slightly shorter than the first. When 3 took a similar pace and never really picked up after 20 hours, I wasn’t enjoying anything about it. I see why everyone praises the characters and world building, but that’s not what invests me in the game. Literally half the story felt like filler to me - ignoring the side quests even- and by that point I felt like I already knew the characters and how they would develop.
Theres so many interesting battle systems out there, is very hard nail a system that is both fun/intuitive, but somewhat deep/and manage to be interesting from beginning to end(so it dont became busy work which can turn into boring). From more recents releases that I played the Cold Steel games manage to hit mostly all the 3 points I made, the game can be a little too easy even on Nightmare though. As underrated I would say Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, if you look past the fact that is way different from the previous games, not to mention that the battle system is great, setting traps and managing how much AP you have, plus the free moviment during battle. Is not perfect though the way combos work could be better and the overall balancing too, in the end game theres almost no reason to use traps with such overpower magics. Strange enough I'm seeying more positive responses from the game in the last few years, maybe the rise of difficult games and roguelikes have a influence on that
Im having a hard time leaving a town without completing all the side quests. I mean games like final fantasy ix or grandia had only a few and they were all interesting. The problem is that I took the same mindset when I played xenoblade chronicles 2 for example. It soon started to feel like work and I had no fun anymore. Then I ignored everything and just rushed through which also wasn't fun. The golden middle is hard to find.
The filler is actually the reason I stopped playing Trails in the Sky. Talking to a billion NPCs, skipping infinite dialog, etc. Which is a shame because I absolutely loved the battle system.
Honestly if you play a lot of games you can kinda get a feel on what is too long or a filler from long games or short games. Though there are rare times where i 100% the game and go like "What that's it?" as i was expecting more from the game since it felt so short to me
As you get older you also change, games like Legend of Heroes FC and Trails of Cold Steel would've been amazing to my 20s younger me, but now ? With a kid and limited time I can't play JRPGs that are that long, I'm not blaming the game of course, but I go for JRPGs that are 40h or less. I know people complained about fillers in FF7 Remake, I honestly did not mind it I completed all side quests, they felt fun and did not had too many unlike some games where there are just too much. It all depends on the person IMO so you are 100% right on this Derek we should not apply our logic to others, we are all different after all.
It's hard for me to consider some part of a game filler content. It kind of depends on the game. For example, there is a heckton of filler battles in XC2 because sometimes the game makes you win over 30-40 battles to gain a level. Neverthless, games like those in the SaGa series, have near to no filler when it comes to grinding because you usually get something out of each battle in the form of stat upgrades, that system makes every battle worthwhile.
@@airdrighmor1439 yeah a lot of people were saying it was great because it added a lot of late game content extra strong post game bosses like ultermica and sephiroth and the Dev made some of the character who are weak a little bit more balanced so was like sure if I am going to play ff6 why not try the version with extra bells and whistles.....probably a not the best idea but I have just reached the world's of ruin and I am enjoying myself.
I don't have a hard cut off on when something needs to end as much as a personal burn out. For whatever reason, around 60 hours, no matter what it is, I find myself just done with it. Even in games that absolutely need it, like persona 5 which would never work with 60.
All good topics. As for the physical/digital thing, I believe it's subjective, as well, but another of my main reasons for being a physical collector (aside from looking at & cherishing them), is I may want to play the game again in 15, 20 years, like I do now. But with digital games, the problem is, some of the games I want to play are NOT available digitally, and other digital releases can disappear forever once no longer supported online (P.T.). Not me. I'd rather pop it in & play it (Shadow Hearts, Summoner, etc).
Absolutely this too. I know that some people think you might be able to just turn on a Nintendo Switch in 30 years and your digital games will still be there-- and they might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch or other modern consoles need to phone home every few years to validate the software licenses or whatever. By then maybe things will be hacked to the point where it doesn't matter, but for now physical media feels "safer" for the long haul.
@@SuperDerek - indeed. And yes, as for Switch digital games still being available in 15, 20 years, I think that is questionable, seeing as the Wii store closed for good some time back. After they closed it, all digital games on Wii are gone, so when the ones I got are gone from my hard drive, that's it. Done. They did that because of new internet infrastructure, and we all know technology keeps plowing forward (too fast, if you ask me).
I have a video idea for you. Can you do a video on RPGs that have character creation? Like Phantasy Star Online had character creation. What other RPGs games have that?
I wish they kept evolving FFXII combat system, I've not enjoyed FF combat systems after that (Aside from XIV which is great!) It was a good idea for something real time but not full on action mashing or messy crossbreed combat like VII Remake. I wish a main FF does that someday. It's got sooo much potential.
My opinion that game length is no issue if the time spent with the game is quality or at least interresting. It doesn't matter if its 1 hour or 100 hours, if its a good time. Also game's price does not matter, I can pay 50 euros for a 4 hour game as I've said before, quality over quantity.
Just finished Blue Dragon on the series x and it has some of that after attack input thing you said you want more of Derek, at least of the spell casting
My personal favorite battle system would have to be a tie between persona 5 and kingdomhearts 2. Persona 5’s turn based is so snappy, flashy and fast that I feel it negates the need for a button prompt to keep me engaged. Kingdomhearts 2 to this day I still think is the closest thing to perfect action rpg combat. I’ve yet to play another action rpg that feels as smooth and fluid as it. As for game length anywhere between 30-50 hours I think is perfect but if the games story is exceptional and has me hooked big time, I’m okay with it being 100 hrs.
I'd love to see Legend of Legaia's combat make a return. I still have my hand written notes of all the combos from when I was younger
Dude yasss! i played Legaia 2 through so many times beacuse of that combo building system loved it
I wasn’t nearly as big of a fan of LoL2, but man that title was magic when I found it. I’m playing Breath of Fire 4 right and have been enjoying myself as well.
Yas. 🔥🔥
Shadow Hearts still has one of my favorite battle systems. It's a perfect compromise between old school menu based and a battle system that requires paying attention. Some say it's too QTE-like but I never felt that way. As for length, I wouldn't say there's a length for me. Be it 20 or 100 hours, what matters to me is staying engaged and immersed into the story, the world, characters, etc. There's definitely "too long" though. I'm a massive DQ fan but DQVII was veeery close to that.
Length can definitely be a thing imo, especially the final dungeon. I feel like so many JRPGs make out the last dungeon in the game a huge slog. They're usually massive, have too many puzzles or other mechanic making it drag even more, they only have 1 music track that gets old because they take too long to go through... I always feel my hype die down for the story's ending or the final boss battle, because of these last minute slogs. I know most have boss rush gallery to spice things up which I do like, but I'd still rather have smaller dungeons or some straighforward level with a hype music track
@@Walamonga1313 For sure, or when a specific dungeon just becomes harder than the rest of the game and is more of a test of endurance than skill. Case in point: Cave to Rhone in Dragon Quest II.
40 hours is my threshold. By then I'm already getting desperate for things to wrap up.
Yeah, I know I'm playing an outstanding game when I reach the 60h let alone the 90h mark. SMT V was the last game that lasted me that long.
A lot of people don’t count it until the most recent entry, but I’ll say the Yakuza series is a JRPG if the Bouncer is a one :P. I think it does side content pretty well. You can do it at your own pace, and most side content is clearly defined so you know what you gotta do and if you hate the bowling mini game or something you can just ignore it. But if you wanna do the side content, it easily can double the length of the game if you don’t wanna leave Kamurocho just yet.
One of these days I'm gonna figure out how to play mahjong...
A RPG style I would like to see....
GRANDIA's style was sooooooooooo perfect!
Grandia is a series that I think deserved to have a dozen entries. It's a shame the series hasn't had any new entries lately.
I feel the same about Lunar.
Grandia's art style is the style that made me want to buy a PlayStation and want to play RPG's. I used to see images of it on gaming magazines and I hated that I couldn't afford the game as a kid.
I love Final Fantasy XII's combat system and I haven't seen any other games utilizing that sort of combat
XI
@@moisescorral8297 I haven't played FFXI, bit it was released before XII and it's an mmojrpg on top on that.
My point was that I haven't seen no other game (that's not a mmorpg) has done was FFXII did with the combat.
Guild Wars
@@Edwinschuur Also a mmorpg, I'm talking about JRPGs utilizing it and Guild Wars is not a JRPG.
@@emmychansuper GW is not an MMORPG. It has instance area's and dungeon. Not a cohesive world. Only you and your party which could be with AI instead of players visit a region. Its not a connected world with 100s of players you can meet in the field.
Awesome topics discussed in this video Derek! The battle system in the Atelier Ryza games has some great real time elements that keeps the player engaged throughout the encounters. You can add normal attacks and also block to increase a special meter that is so satisfying. Hope you get a chance to play the Ryza series eventually!
Man, the physical thing is tough now. I also just feel wrong buying digital. I love having a shelf of boxes. But the PS4/Xbox One generation basically ended what we knew as a physical copy. Discs are glorified codes. There’s no manual. It’s just a snap case w/ box art. But I still buy them.
I only buy digital if I don't care about the game enough to collect it. Usually indie games
I still love Legend of Dragoon's addition system. Keeps you engaged even during random battles. Never played any of them, but I guess Shadow hearts' approach is somewhat similar. Though, with LoD you could eventually close your eyes and listen for the timing cues.
Definitely prefer physical. Scariest part isn't just digital. I'd still take a steam library over the push for cloud-based where you don't even own the data and can't access anything w/o a strong internet connection. It's why I won't be touching the Kingdom Hearts games on switch.
1:06 SuperDerek: "Every once in a while you've got to shift gears, so to speak."
SuperDerek: *Shows Xenogears footage of Gears gameplay *
Me: "I see what you did there"
One of my personal gripes with ff7r , i played the original and it feels like 60% filler , stretched out dungeons , busywork so 35 feels like 70 h. My all time favourite valkyrie profile , 35 with postgame , perfekt battlesystem. Next to it witcher 3 or xenoblade 1+2 are around 100h wouldnt want it any other way . Best battlesystem imo is from super robot taisen og saga: endless frontier , just piure fun. Really like your content greetings from germany
Shadow Hearts: Covenant, Front Mission 5, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Trails to Azure have my favorite JRPG battle systems.
Teehee he said shift gears and Xenogears was on the screen, that made me chuckle harder than it should. Combat system I'd like to see come back was the Shadowhearts games or Legend of Dragoon. Also talking about cancelling enemy attacks in the line...I just recently started playing Blue Reflection: Second Light and it does that combat similar to that. Also I wouldn't mind seeing more of the old school turn base games.
I feel like one of the most under rated games I've played recently that isn't AAA is probably a game called Caligula Effect 2 (it is persona lite imho), but I dunno that game is good imho, decent length and alright sidequests, but the music is fantastic for the type of game. The other game on my list and I do PC game is Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous it just a good dnd type game.
Too much filler is when it becomes not fun and more of a job. XBC2 is kinda in that for me, to get some of the Blades I have to grind and grind and it does get tedious. But other than that.. that game was still good imho.
Shadow Hearts / Lost Odyssey combat system was so satisfying
Two things that come to mind for filler are menus within menus within menus where they all mostly do the same, but don't really add anything. Also, sidequests that give you really nothing to help or minimal exp points for where you are in the game
Hey Derek. I always enjoy you measured and thoughtful takes on JRPG's. I don't know how you do these question sessions, but I'd like to ask you a question, if I may. Incidentally, it's something Erik Landon has already done a video on.
The question is: What would your dream JRPG be like? Which elements of which games would you sandwich together to create something that appeals to you directly? Perhaps you'd like your dream JRPG to include something you haven't even seen in JRPG's before? I mean, the answer would be fascinating.
I'll extend that question and ask: Which JRPG you've played so far in your gaming life has been the closest thing to your dream JRPG? Something that felt like it was made just for you? That game for me was Persona 4. I mean, a bunch of kids in a sleepy rural Japanese town who have to create their own excitement, and then become investigators in bizarre series of seemingly supernatural murder cases? On top of it it was a relationship simulator with a bunch of colorful main and side characters in which you really had to take time to get to know everyone. That game felt so tailor-made for my tastes it was almost scary.
Anyways, I look forward to your video on the subject if you consider my question worthy of a response.
It's interesting that you talked about classic battle systems you'd love to bring back, because I played about the first hour of Grandia III last night, and even just doing the tutorials and a few random battles the combat in that game feels *so* good.
And I think the reason filler became prevalent in the PSone and especially PS2 eras is because game length was considered the most important aspect in a lot of reviews at the time, and from many regular players as well, so that's why we'd get things like Tales of Symphonia making you go back to older dungeons to progress the story.
Yeah my fave battle systems have always been the Grandia games as well. Man I miss that series so much. I love how even though it’s turned based, you can’t just sit back and not pay attention, you have to strategize and be ready to counter enemies. I have the Switch collection but I’m hoping there’s a new game released 😩 I know it’s probably not gonna happen tho
On battle systems, Ikenfell has an interesting mix of timed attacks and character placement. For such small combat arenas I felt like there was a decent amount of combat variety. Surprisingly good story too!
Hey Derek, I am totally with you with the whole physical copy thing. I’ll just go pick a game off the shelf and read the back cover. I loved when games used to come with the little guidebooks inside. I have printed off some cover art for games that I got used from gamestop. My collection is not near as extensive as yours, but it's growing. I just got Trails of Cold Steel IV for Christmas. Thanks for the great video.
Shout out for the Xenogears battle system. Fun combos to unlock with experimentation flashy ending moves and storing up turn points to activate a chain of all your cool moves.
Bro, I feel that wanting something physical sentiment in my soul.
It's not something you can describe, but when I hold a copy of my favorite games from my childhood in my hand and relive all the great memories it's incredible.
These feeling have only gotten stonger as I've got older to the point where I make it a point to buy physical copies of great games I already own digitally whenever I see them at my local game store.
I recommend checking out the amazing battle system in SaGa Scarlet Grace.
Yesss ! One of the best JRPG combat systems I've ever had the pleasure to experience.
I really enjoy the thing in Trails where critical hits, status effects and other things occur on certain turns, and you have to try and interrupt turns.
Thanks for another great video Derek. Since I follow your channel quite a while I think your video content became a lot better "recently". (maybe since a year? god i lost every sense of time in this pandemy :D ). really good stuff.
Ah, that Saturn haul! I recently saw that video again. The algorithm said I should watch it lol. I bought a Japanese Saturn because of that video just the other day with Panzer Dragoon Zwei. Love your channel, Derek.
Great to see The Bouncer getting some love. It’s obviously flawed, but so much fun. The last time I was in England, I got a copy from CEX for like £1.99 and played the hell out of it
I want another game with the combat systemof Radiant Historia.
I think filler is also really important for the passage of time. It would be weird if the villian ran off with a magical item and then 1 or 2 hours later you're being introduced to their demon generals or whatever they've summoned to help them without out them feeling like bad filler before the final boss
by putting some world building filler or a b plot in there for some time to pass, it allows your mind to fill in some blanks of "oh these demon generals were summoned and have built up their own dynamic and character relationships with the main villian" and it'll be easier to believe than if they showed up sooner rather than later
not a brillient example since i just made up as vague of an idea as possilbe but yeah hope I got what i mean across
Filler isn’t really a positive term though- it suggests grinding or empty duplicated content. I would much prefer LESS and each be hand crafted and offer something that adds to the game- highlights mechanics/character development/art design we might’ve missed otherwise. When it’s just half a dozen quest templates copied & pasted, it feels cheap and uninspired- but then marketing will be sure to promote the game as a 120 hour epic (even though 80 hours are unoriginal trophy chasing).
@@residentevilclone filler has become a dirty word these days due to so much bad filler,
Witcher 3 has an absolute shit ton of side quests that are just helping village people out but due to the general quality of them being so high and feeling like their own little short tv show length adventures they work really well
theres definately alot of bad out there but I think good filler benefits a game alot be it with pacing or world building, problem is getting that balence right is hard and everyone has different tolerence levels
you could also just not care about trophies (the first plat i got was ass creed 2 and ever since getting those feathers I've stopped caring with only gravity rush and spiderman ps4 being the other plats I got which were 100% accidental)
For me the latter Megaman Battle Network and StarForce games have the best battle systems. Golden Sun TLA is pretty close too. Other honorable mentions I would give... maybe Panzer Dragoon Saga, Radiant Historia and SRW Endless Frontier: EXCEED
Treasure of the Rudras prefix and sufix system was awesome to experiment with also.
I remember seeing videos of the Bouncer and it honestly made me so hype for the PS2 regrettably never got to play it and it kind of faded into extinction by the time I bought a PS2.
Golden sun had such a awesome battle system. Turn based and smooth and fast. Too rad.
Amen bro
That 8-bitdo controller is superb! I have that same controller but the all blacked out version. It’s what I use when I game on PC mostly!
Notion is rad, glad to see other folks getting a lot of use out of it!
Great topic. Super relevant for me. My lady bought me FF7 Remake and as a die hard ff7 fan, I am left DRAINED by the repetitive filler and find it hard to return to. Literally playing it 3 hrs a month because of this. There's side- filler but then there's forced filler. Ugh. Hurts my soul lol
I was going to get that, then no steam so waiting for steam. Also heard the pc version was a horrible edition. I pray FF16 & DQ12 are better(and on steam)
I got other games to play while I wait so not a big deal
I can relate. But in defense of the remake, I can say the middle of the game is definitely side-story driven, but you might like the end portion.
It's not our perfect realization of a remake, but play it through.
If it's any consolation, if you expected a 1-1 remake, you are not gonna get it.
No damn way.
Still, try to stick through it until the end.
@@SwagimirPutin Thanks for that, ima push through then. Ironically...I dont think I would have liked a 1:1 remake unless they really overhauled the random battles/combat system. If the side stories flesh out the world so that i can see the world from angles never before seen THEN I'll enjoy that. I just hate climbing up floors and floors of enemies and would prefer random encounters with the swirly fight transitions lol.
Totally agree. I loved the game in general, but almost all sidequest were super boring, and some of the main story as well. Sadly, there's some people who just want to spend a lot of time playing a game, regardless if it's fun or not. This can be done with post-game content and that's fine I guess, I normally don't spend that much time post-game anyways with so many new games and so little time.
The same happened with Assassin's Creed Origins, I couldn't play it more than some hours because you get filler content from the beginning, and from what I've read, Odyssey and Valhalla are even worse.
@@drowningin Yea, im not doing this exclusive platform thing. Im sticking with steam. Hopefully by the time that happens they have the bugs fixed and quality of life mods. And maybe a mod that replaces Cloud, Barret, and Tifa with Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo lol
I don't mind the way Trails handles side quests because most of the filler content is optional. What I don't like is when games require you to repeat content for the main story. DQXI is jumping to mind for me right now. I still enjoy that game but as it goes on the repeating dungeons and bosses get very very repetitive. SMT Nocturne is still my favorite battle system. The newer SMT games don't quite nail what I enjoyed about Nocturne.
and what is that?
Replaying Legend of Dragoon for the first time since I've beaten it probably 12 years ago. Still, it has one of my favorite battle systems. That game is pretty deserving of a modern remake.
I agree on the physical. I feel like part of the gameplay experience is going to Walmart/Target/GameStop to buy the game, or excitedly checking my package in the mail, then putting it in my PS4 and hearing it read the disc. Idk that's just me.
Have enjoyed the battle system in Tokyo Mirage Sessions the most actually. Bravely Second right behind.
Filler isn't always a choice to play it. Some games have interesting main missions with cool characters and story. But in order to do the next sidequest you have to do boring filler.
Example: You meet a resistance group that wants to overthrow a local mayor that is a Tyrantto progress the story.
In order to do this storymission they require you to do a certain number of tasks for the resistance members. These tasks all come to gathering ingredient drops and materials from random drops.
When you've done these boring tasks you play a cool story mission. For the next mission however you need to do another 5 mandatory fetchquests.
Another way of boring filler is to make enemies way to powerful unless you do fetch quests and collection flags, eggs.or whatever in order to get.materials.to upgrade equipment. If you don't do the boring filler your attacks will do 1hp damage to monsters in the new story area because your equipment doesn't meet the threshold.
The worst offenders are game that are aware of this and although you spent 60 dollars on the game, you need to do filler for a couple of hours or buy the materials as DLC in order to progress the "real game", the "fun game".
Really loved Tales of Destiny for that reason when I first played, decades ago. Personaly I love Grandia's system, being able to move out attacks or cancel the enemies.
FFXs CTB system is my favorite. Its a perfect distillation of the classic turn based system.
Hey SuperDerek! If there was a franchise you would like to play and maybe review what would it be? Have a great one!
I will say this about ff7 remake- while it took me around 10 hours in 1997 to finish the midgar part ... NOW it took me 40+ (+5 or so hours with yuffie dlc) in the ff7 remake on the ps5. I wouldnt consider that "fillers" I would consider that making the world come a live, making Midgar feel like a real town, in fact when you roam around on the ground (in 4k especially) you realize how big the city is and realistically detailed that magically it feels REAL and full of people it must be. I´m gonna assume the developers felt overwhelmed with the project and decided to stick with Midgar for episode 1 and felt like people had waited too long to just make it a 20 hour playthrough (which it could have been) and while FF7 back on the ps1 was 1/4 in lenght and it was an emotional roller coaster of BAM BAM BAM BAM events non stop - and I get why some people prefer this adventure of non stop moments - this ff7 remake felt slower paced and more fan service for the people who already know X,Y and Z and wanna re-live the moments of being in the ff7 world again.
My only complaint is... my first playthrough I used RED XIII (part of the main cast and has his own story & town) the whole game after I got him and in ff7 remake he just push levers and cant join the party as playable ... they could have made something about how he was brought & captued to shina, or a mini game with him OR SOMETHING. Instead we get an optional character in the original FF7 - Yuffie- as a playable hero with her own story in the ps5 version- very confusing. Does this mean Vincent is gonna be a DLC character as well in a memory ? Zack? how far will they go with these paid DLC stuff?! I mean, when I put in my ps4 ff7 remake disc in my ps5 I got a free graphical upgrade BUT the yuffie part wasnt included, had to pay 15 dollar for it (120 kr). That doesnt taste right with me. They announce the remake, they delay it multiple times, they announce its coming in episodes, they charge for unique summons as pre-orders, they release the game (finally), they then release paid DLC for it that include extra story even an en extra ending that shows the main cast finally arrive at Kalm! Im a bit worried about episode 2, not about fillers, but how they will charge for summons, extra story, extra characters etc!
I actually really liked the Mario RPG combat system(/Luigi, paper, etc.) I think the series hit a good balance of keeping combat engaging while not overdoing the frequency of fights so as to not make them boring.
On the action command system, have you played the first two Paper Mario games? I feel those two games do the interactive button thing well since each attack has a different set of buttons and inputs to keep things interesting.
I have and I love them. I need to give them a proper review some day!
I think Derek would do a very good "The Bouncer" announcer voice.
I've been pro-digital since 2018. Yes, it's a hard life to live but it makes carrying those invisible objects easier. Though I do miss artbooks. That I do still collect! Great video as always and here's to 75k subs!
Mana Khemia has hands down one of the best battle systems. It grows and grows as the game goes on
Oh geeze, the Bouncer... I don't think I ever played it myself, but I had a friend who kept complaining about the escort missions, so I've kinda had a bad impression of it. But then again, he did keep playing it, so I guess it couldn't have been that bad.
I do like having the real banana, too. But as the years go by and my shelves fill up and my backlog keeps growing I've grown more interested in owning the games I have a real emotional connection to. Other stuff I'm happy to grab digital if I can find a good sale.
Bravely Default & Octopath Traveler are my favorite battle systems.
I've been playing Radiant Historia, and not only is the story & time travel gameplay amazing, the grid turn based battle system has quickly become a favorite. You can easily avoid battle as you see monsters & can stun them. But the battles are so fun I've fought every enemy I've seen so far in the 25hrs I've been playing
Some day I'll be able to capture 3DS footage and when that happens this is going to be at the top of my list of games to play through and review. :)
@@SuperDerek with how expensive 3DS have become I'd be too scared to modify mine. The easiest/cheapest way is the emulator on PC which is legal if you own the game I believe, at the least ethical
That opening! The answer for me is: pacing. FF6/7 for example does pacing so well further DQ5, 8 and 11 and trails as Derek says are GREAT FILLER i love good world building.
While it’s not my fave entry in the series, I think the amount of optional side content that FFX had was just about perfect. I don’t remember how many hours it would be just to play through at a high enough level to beat the game, but I know that all the additional sphere grid stuff, celestial weapons, monster arena, blitzball, etc aren’t necessary. It’s prob what, a 50 hour game? But I’ve put 150 hours in a file and enjoyed it (for the most part, some of those weapons’ mini games are despicable) because I knew it was side content that didn’t really matter other than for completion. I also enjoyed blitzball and built teams into the level 70s.
In addition to the ones you mentioned, I think Legend of Legaia's battle system is one that should be used more.
I loved The Bouncer but that might be because I spent my own hard earned $60 on it back in the day, loved the graphics and story just wish there was better gameplay!
The last time I had a good find for an old game was a near mint copy of The Legend of Dragoon at a pawn shop for $4 back in, like, 2008
FILLER: The Witcher 3' has some of the best done "filler" in gaming. And that's because the "filler" is not filler. Everything in that game, side quests and all, are interictal to the story and the world at large.
COMBAT: Two of the better traditional RPG combat systems that I've come across in my time (IMO) playing have been the button based system utilized in the original PSX Valkyrie Profile and (as you mentioned) the damage extending/technique stacking system used in The Legend of Dragoon.
UNDERRATED GAME: 13 Sentinels: Ageis Rim... If you've played it, then no further comment is really needed. You already know.
I am a new subscriber. Your videos are great. Thank you for the awesome content.
I've always wanted a JRPG with a rhythm battle system like Parappa the Rapper or Friday Night Funkin. That would be sweet.
Even though I strongly prefer physical, having a halfway decent PC has come in clutch for a lot of things for me as a Switch/Xbox player, like catching up with the whole Trails series, Persona 4 Golden, and emulating retro games that are insanely expensive.
I think Breath of Fire 4 is mega underrated and because if it's art style, it aged very well. The Bouncer .....wow. Nostalgia high right there.
Sea of stars is bringing Back the hit time attack ! Check it out if you haven’t yet, it looks gorgeous.
The more I hear about Sea of Stars the more excited I get about it!
@@SuperDerek right!?!? The thing I’m most excited for is the open world map that you traverse around. That’s something I miss the most from older rpgs.
I also liked the Bouncer!! I kinda wish it got a sequel and they could have polished the gameplay and added co op story mode.
Grandia 2 had some of the most fun turn-based combat. Having the chance to flat-out cancel an enemy's attack was a lot more engaging to me than timed button presses.
Those edits in the beginning were funny. : )
Economizing encounters! Make random encounters more of an exception and not a rule, and utilize tedium-saving ideas like in Earthbound (like an option to automatically win an encounter with a much weaker opponent).
Great video, Derek! Excellent answers, no wonder you're "super" 😅...
It's really hard for me to decide on a perfect battle system, but I think of one and I'd like to name a few that I've met and loved!
The FF XIII - XIII2 battle system for me is the best in the franchise, because I saw in these systems the ideal balance between action and turn-based combat that Square seeks to apply in final fantasy... but the system only reaches its peak after dozens of hours playing (both XIII and XIII 2). But when you understand the mechanics and have a party with several different techniques, combat becomes frantic, strategic, pleasurable and requires a lot of attention.
I also really liked the combat of Valkyrie Profile 2 that inserted arenas with a tactical bias and the quick switch to the traditional combat of the franchise.
I also really liked the combat of The Last Remenant, especially the assembly of small squads (which reminded me of the ogre battle) where you don't have direct control of your secondary soldiers, giving a random aspect of the attacks as if it were a roll of dice in a section of Dungeos and Dragons. And I love so much that you can group all the enemies on the map and do a single colossal and epic battle!
But I think the system I love the most in an RPG is the Grandia franchise system indeed! It's so dynamic and fun to cancel your opponent's attacks, keep hoping your character's icon overcomes the enemy's and you gain more turns... it's also great to separate the state of evasion (which influences your dodge I believe) agility (which influences the speed with which your icon moves to reach your turn) and movement (which influences how much the character runs in the battlefield without getting tired)... in short, it's a fight that I consider perfect! because it combines action with turn-based battle very well and have a greater sense of control than in FFXIII. But the only thing I wanted was for there to be an active battle option in Grandia's combat, that is, when a teammate's turn came, the battle didn't freeze, but rather entered a kind of "bullet time" which would keep even more the sense of urgency, tension and would make us always think about the turns ahead especially in a boss fight. I think for me this would be the perfect combat system in an RPG.
I love turn-based RPGs (they better not be dead) and I like the idea of a hybrid where you can score more damage if you time things right.
My favorite JRPG battle system is the one from Brightis.
I’m a “things” person as well
Owning digital feels like a long distance relationship. You know it’s there but you can never truly feel, touch, and enjoy a game like one could physically. But that’s just me
Its a Tonel Shift also where in the narative, you have specific scenerio's that are heavy in dramatics and tension, and then certain area's in the game have to sort of give you that down time from those hype moments. I do actually welcome alot of the filler in PS1 rpgs beacuse it gives you a chance to reflect upon a major development in the story, well also shifting gears with a new theme and even some times an entirely new location in the world. It is always most like following book, when your done with Chapter 5 and there is a turning point, Chapter 6 introduces many new elements and asthetics from the game from a narative and design perspective that kind of draws you into a new aspect of the game. In the case of FF VII remake, I think alot of the filler was just basic use of padding with extra long dungeons and humerious banter between characters and it can get quite repetitive over time.
Ps1 games on the other hand in my opinion are paced much more consistency, adding new dimensions to the game but also incorporating tonel shift in narative more effectivly. But its kind of unfair comparison because what can you do with a game only based on Midgar when most PS1 rpgs you have the entire world to scope out.
Totally agree with you on the steam library thing derek I'd much rather have a physical video game library than a digital one, I wouldn't trade my physical library for any digital one.
I get it the connection with something physical . That attachment u feel it in real life then u transition easier into the virtual world . For you get people all we know is apps and clicking on it to download, and getting it ASAP. However u can't send it to a friend u can't share and that sort of kinda kills the value of it that u can't even let your buddy play or even sell it . However u can always redownload your game on any PC u can't lose it and ur cloud saves are synced though sometimes there are glitches with those I wish there was a way to backup saves
Hot take, but I like FF1's combat mechanic where if you target an enemy and they die before your action comes up, you miss. It really forces you to pay attention and economize who will attack who.
Love your channel! Have you played Shadowverse Champions Battle on Switch? Its a card battle RPG and i feel its very underrated. But i do know card battle is not for everyone but ive been loving the game so far, theres alot to learn though.
btw speaking of video game hunting, I know plenty of "collectors" (...and friends) who started trade and sell/buy from each other instead.
the best place to find great games isnt always that "retro store".
FF7R had the perfect battle system for me. Perfect compromise between action and turn based.
As much as I agree with you and enjoyed my playthrough, there were a few very frustrating fights in there to me, so much more so than in the original (to avoid spoilers, I don't think I need to name them anyway). I did find myself grinding a little simply for the combat though. That's a rare fear in modern RPGs.
FF7R's changed from the original is why I won't ever play it and odds are its sequels will be PS5 only and I can't afford one anyways.
I don't since its not turned based at all.
Not most FF games are the first 11 are ALL turned based though FF10 is a MMO one I'll never play and FF13 to 13 part 3 don't really use turns as all.
I still consider ATB to be turned based the only ones that don't have a turn are FF12 FF13 and FF13's sequels.
For me it ranges from one JRPG to the next. Really depends how much story they add into it. One JRPG can make 100 hours feel short while the next can make 100 hours feel treacherous long. So personally I want more story. Side quests can start to feel like filler too much unless they incorporate side quests into the story.
I still have a bit of the old "I like to physically have the game" mentality left over. What finally broke me was the day 1 patches. Once it became apparent that if in 20 years I plugged in an old PS3 and inserted a disc, I still wouldn't be able to just play the game, I figured what was the point. The Switch is the last bastion for physical games now. While I would rather get an indie game on steam for $3, there are a few games I want to keep forever or allow friends to play by lending them the cart. A few Switch games are now shipping with day 1 patches, so I avoid those. But yea, if I can't use the physical game to play the game, there's no longer a point in physically owning it in the first place. You're still at the whims of the companies just as if you bought it digital.
I didn’t want Tales of Arise to end!!!
Interesting mention of the Trails series with regards to filler. I was playing through cold steel throughout the past year, and I finally had to stop halfway through 3. Story was progressing too slowly for me. If I’d written the story of the first two, I could have condensed everything into a single game slightly shorter than the first. When 3 took a similar pace and never really picked up after 20 hours, I wasn’t enjoying anything about it.
I see why everyone praises the characters and world building, but that’s not what invests me in the game. Literally half the story felt like filler to me - ignoring the side quests even- and by that point I felt like I already knew the characters and how they would develop.
Theres so many interesting battle systems out there, is very hard nail a system that is both fun/intuitive, but somewhat deep/and manage to be interesting from beginning to end(so it dont became busy work which can turn into boring). From more recents releases that I played the Cold Steel games manage to hit mostly all the 3 points I made, the game can be a little too easy even on Nightmare though.
As underrated I would say Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, if you look past the fact that is way different from the previous games, not to mention that the battle system is great, setting traps and managing how much AP you have, plus the free moviment during battle. Is not perfect though the way combos work could be better and the overall balancing too, in the end game theres almost no reason to use traps with such overpower magics.
Strange enough I'm seeying more positive responses from the game in the last few years, maybe the rise of difficult games and roguelikes have a influence on that
Im having a hard time leaving a town without completing all the side quests. I mean games like final fantasy ix or grandia had only a few and they were all interesting. The problem is that I took the same mindset when I played xenoblade chronicles 2 for example. It soon started to feel like work and I had no fun anymore.
Then I ignored everything and just rushed through which also wasn't fun. The golden middle is hard to find.
The filler is actually the reason I stopped playing Trails in the Sky. Talking to a billion NPCs, skipping infinite dialog, etc. Which is a shame because I absolutely loved the battle system.
Yes 100% physical, 100% of the time!
Honestly if you play a lot of games you can kinda get a feel on what is too long or a filler from long games or short games. Though there are rare times where i 100% the game and go like "What that's it?" as i was expecting more from the game since it felt so short to me
Man I played Suikoden 3 last year.. great game but it's so long. I didn't even do 108 stars and my file was 70 hrs
Legend of dragoon was a good way to do the hybrid turn based attacks in my opinion
As you get older you also change, games like Legend of Heroes FC and Trails of Cold Steel would've been amazing to my 20s younger me, but now ? With a kid and limited time I can't play JRPGs that are that long, I'm not blaming the game of course, but I go for JRPGs that are 40h or less.
I know people complained about fillers in FF7 Remake, I honestly did not mind it I completed all side quests, they felt fun and did not had too many unlike some games where there are just too much.
It all depends on the person IMO so you are 100% right on this Derek we should not apply our logic to others, we are all different after all.
If I truly love a game then I will always try to own the physical copy. I only own digital if it is the only way I can get it.
It's hard for me to consider some part of a game filler content. It kind of depends on the game. For example, there is a heckton of filler battles in XC2 because sometimes the game makes you win over 30-40 battles to gain a level. Neverthless, games like those in the SaGa series, have near to no filler when it comes to grinding because you usually get something out of each battle in the form of stat upgrades, that system makes every battle worthwhile.
I am playing through final fantasy 6 and I got to say holy moly you need to do so much grinding
@@airdrighmor1439 I am playing T edition it's a rom hack I assumed it just added new bosses and stuff I guess it also made it a bit grindyier
@@airdrighmor1439 yeah a lot of people were saying it was great because it added a lot of late game content extra strong post game bosses like ultermica and sephiroth and the Dev made some of the character who are weak a little bit more balanced so was like sure if I am going to play ff6 why not try the version with extra bells and whistles.....probably a not the best idea but I have just reached the world's of ruin and I am enjoying myself.
I don't have a hard cut off on when something needs to end as much as a personal burn out. For whatever reason, around 60 hours, no matter what it is, I find myself just done with it. Even in games that absolutely need it, like persona 5 which would never work with 60.
All good topics. As for the physical/digital thing, I believe it's subjective, as well, but another of my main reasons for being a physical collector (aside from looking at & cherishing them), is I may want to play the game again in 15, 20 years, like I do now. But with digital games, the problem is, some of the games I want to play are NOT available digitally, and other digital releases can disappear forever once no longer supported online (P.T.). Not me. I'd rather pop it in & play it (Shadow Hearts, Summoner, etc).
Absolutely this too. I know that some people think you might be able to just turn on a Nintendo Switch in 30 years and your digital games will still be there-- and they might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch or other modern consoles need to phone home every few years to validate the software licenses or whatever. By then maybe things will be hacked to the point where it doesn't matter, but for now physical media feels "safer" for the long haul.
Summoner and Summoner 2 are some of my guilty pleasures. Love the story, lore and music! Sad we never got a part 3..
@@SuperDerek - indeed. And yes, as for Switch digital games still being available in 15, 20 years, I think that is questionable, seeing as the Wii store closed for good some time back. After they closed it, all digital games on Wii are gone, so when the ones I got are gone from my hard drive, that's it. Done. They did that because of new internet infrastructure, and we all know technology keeps plowing forward (too fast, if you ask me).
I have a video idea for you. Can you do a video on RPGs that have character creation? Like Phantasy Star Online had character creation. What other RPGs games have that?
I wish they kept evolving FFXII combat system, I've not enjoyed FF combat systems after that (Aside from XIV which is great!) It was a good idea for something real time but not full on action mashing or messy crossbreed combat like VII Remake. I wish a main FF does that someday. It's got sooo much potential.
My opinion that game length is no issue if the time spent with the game is quality or at least interresting. It doesn't matter if its 1 hour or 100 hours, if its a good time. Also game's price does not matter, I can pay 50 euros for a 4 hour game as I've said before, quality over quantity.
The Bouncer! My first PS2 game. I loved it! It wasn’t THAT bad…
Agreed! Completely underrated. :)
Just finished Blue Dragon on the series x and it has some of that after attack input thing you said you want more of Derek, at least of the spell casting
Lost Odyssey had that too.
My personal favorite battle system would have to be a tie between persona 5 and kingdomhearts 2. Persona 5’s turn based is so snappy, flashy and fast that I feel it negates the need for a button prompt to keep me engaged. Kingdomhearts 2 to this day I still think is the closest thing to perfect action rpg combat. I’ve yet to play another action rpg that feels as smooth and fluid as it.
As for game length anywhere between 30-50 hours I think is perfect but if the games story is exceptional and has me hooked big time, I’m okay with it being 100 hrs.