White City International Station: What, Where and Why Not?
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- From Shepherd’s Bush to Paris.
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Love the diagram, it looks like a New Order album cover.
Moving from a concept, to concrete plan and straight to an abandoned dream should be done as rapidly as possible. It's cheaper that way.😁
As long as you get all the necessary consultation fees first of course!
Giant Toblerones... reminds me of the one time I came across a genuinely gigantic Toblerone in a duty-free shop. The thing weighed 4.5 kg and was almost a metre long. Yes, you read that right. Every one of its 11 segments weighed more than a standard duty-free-sized Toblerone bar. That was a lot of chocolate. Did I buy it? Of course I did. I contributed it to the coffee table at my then place of work, and it took more than two weeks for it to disappear.
I won a giant Toblerone at the Hyde Park Christmas fair one year and spent the rest of the day giving directions to the stall I won it at.....
I got one of those for a birthday when I was a child, it took me until after the next birthday to finish it.
I received one for my birthday and 20 years later I've still not finished it!
10 pounds of chocolate. I love it. I want one for myself. But no way am I sharing it with my coworkers.
Triloligy!
Hoping for a four-part trilogy, Douglas Adams style, with the suggested video about St Pancreas. (Yes yes, blame autocorrect!)
Jago Hazzard, putting the 'lol' in 'trilogy' since 2024.
Watching this while chatting to my mates at Bloodstock festival has given me an idea for a band name: Jago and the Toblerones.
Funny you mention Bloodstock as I’m off there today and also a Jago subscriber!
I’m not sure my group would share the same interest in these videos, haha
First EP would be called [You Are The] Yerkes To My Network.
A good deal of metalheads love steam and railway history so could be a railway themed black metal band 😂
Sounds like it could have plenty of bite
yes you should do the Waterloo one at least to explain how we got from this video to the final version
I agree too😊
Wasn't this due to not having a plan and only starting to build a high speed line after the Channel Tunnel had already been built? I did however always like the thought of the French arriving by Eurostar at Waterloo, it seemed very apt, maybe poetic.
Yes I agree
@mattpotter8725 it's meant to remind them of 1815
Hiya Jago! Just a quick note, i’m glad you uploaded this today. I know you’re quite a fan of the Didcot Railway Centre, and I just went for my first (and a half, long story) induction day as a volunteer! Don’t know why i’m telling you this, but it just crossed my mind that you like coming here, so what I guess I’m trying to say is - i look forward to probably indirectly welcoming you in future!
Ps; love your content, yadda yadda yadda
Didcot? Watch your ar@e!
@@andrewemery4272arse
As you were being inducted, I was travelling past on my awful and tedious CrossCountry train from Southampton to Birmingham (then on to Tamworth) in an awful 4 car Voyager with 3 times the amount of passengers due to the next two trains being cancelled. The Pullman coaches looked almost idyllic.
Didn't have to punch anyone for my reserved seats so that's an upside.
Hello! I was watching Jago to get his views about the channel tunnel, but your post reminded me that I was a platelayer at Quainton Road in the 1970s (yes I am that old) and I congratulate you for helping out at Didcot. I pass through there regularly and have often wondered how they manage to keep it going. Fancy a hand?
I love these stories about hypothetical plans. Somehow, they sound more and more exciting to me.
Tales of futures past. Quality video as Jago!
This was not a hypothetical plan, it was a real plan, just not taken up, unless I missed the point of the video.
“Dystopian Shopping Centre…” 💀
Hmmm.. An interesting adjective to apply to a shopping centre since it does actually exist and is not, as far as I am aware in any state of collapse? I think I get the point but disagree about using words of which you don't know the full meaning. Sorry Jago, or did I just misunderstand?
Having lived next to it for a year there is definitely something subtle off about westfield and i cannot figure out precisely what it is.
As an Australian I'm very proud of seeing Westfield everywhere. Have been to both London Stratford and San Fran which is on Powell BART station
@@WilliamDavidKirbyUKoh, I completely understood what he meant.
Westfield specialises in dystopian shopping centres - they have built dozens of them.
Yes please do go into the further history of HS1 termini as in Waterloo and St Pancras. If only to show what a magnificent cock-up we are able to achieve with relatively major infrastructure projects in this country.
JAGO: Your station diagram could easily be mistaken for an intriguing piece of abstract modern art….especially line paintings of the 1970’s. How serendipitous!
Yes to a historical look at Waterloo & St Pancras stations & how the Eurotunnel ended up there. I still feel nostalgic when i recall the spanking new platforms at Waterloo and checking in for the Eurotunnel train. Ahhh those were the days
Another +1 on the waterloo st pancress video!
Interesting how the Oil Shock of the early 70s is almost lost to folk memory. It was a huge deal at the time and for years after and changed geo-politics permanently.
Did you know there was a pub on top of White City tube station? I spent most of many a day and night in there with my dad?
Is the building still there?
@@DavidShepheard Long gone, probably mid 90s. The entrance is the door right of the main entrance to the station.
The White City exhibition & its buildings might be an interesting video
I always associated White City with the White City Stadium which was built on part of the site of the 1908 exhibition pictured in the video and used for the Olympics in the same year. The difference was most of the White City exhibition buildings were not kept, but the stadium stayed and was used for greyhound racing and occasional sports up until 1984.
It feels like the stadium has been largely forgotten.
ITV World of Sport (good old Dickie Davis) used to regularly broadcast speedway from there in the 70s.
My first thought:
@3:21 Why does Jago show us a strange drawing of a jet engine on a tracked vehicle??? 🤔🤔🤣🤣
(I didn't see the thumbnail.)
Lol! I thought it was a cannon mounted on a paperclip
Triloligy - YOU KNOW YOU WNAT TO.
0:59 It would never. You’re awesome
Everything that you post is of interest.
A video with so much of its footage from an area so close to where i live means that now i'm wondering if I saw jago and didn't realise while i was walking about there. It's kind of surreal
A very interesting video, Jago. I happened to get chatting about 6 weeks ago to someone very knowledgeable about the civil engineering economics and politics of: why can't we connect what we now have with the Channel Tunnel HS1 line emerging from under Highbury & Islington into St Pancras International, by a new "chord" that could pass under Regents Park - but don't frighten the bears at the zoo while you're tunnelling - then St John's Wood and the edge of Maida Vale, to re-emerge into the sunlight at... Old Oak Common and into our 'domestic' HS2 about a mile and a half or 2,4Km north of the subject of this presentation (why White City International didn't happen). Oh, and while doing that HS2 link why not add another Y-prong fork at the west of that "chord" down to the GWR main line for Acton, Ealing, Reading and Bristol/ Cardiff. Us railway enthusiasts would look at a map like this and say, "well, the French would build that before you could say 'voilà monsieur, madame - vos croissants et vos cafés' so, why can't we Brits?" The answer is: international security; it trumps ANYTHING sensible from the integrated engineering point of view. They just don't want to disperse and duplicate international check-in, international security scanning machines and to add the oncoming nightmare of being fingerprinted and photographed to enter the Schengen agreement countries of the EU, in a sort-of sheep pen at domestic UK large stations. Cost, cost, cost - border staff, border staff, border staff. The risks outweigh the long-term benefits which would take YEARS to write off the billions of £ for such "pens". Someone somewhere says (or has said) for the numbers of passengers we'd need to (or expect to) process and then need to 'seal in' on relatively few trains along that Acton/ Old Oak Common "chord" to go... whoosh through Stratford International and on Channel-bound, the building of remote international check-ins at Bristol Temple Meads, Birmingham Curzon Street, Crewe, Manchester etc. just ain't economic, just ain't worth it. Such a crying shame. We definitely live on an island.
Giant Toblerones 😂🤣🤣 love your sense of humour just like mine (sarcasm)
Mine too!
Just a silly Norwegian transport nerd here - but also a musician who spent formative studio time around central London. We used to “borrow” an apartment in Shepherds Bush in the late 80’s, and… That shepherd obviously has money (debts?) to herd now. No room for shee… eh, hopeful band mates nowadays…
I visited the area just some years back, bought way too expensive Marmite right by Westfield (stupid, eh?). ‘Nuff said, eloquence sorely lacking on my part… 🤓
Lacking? Not at all. You’re a muso’, dude! It’s how we roll.😉✌️
Yes, you must keep going, I can see at least four more sequels/parts. Thanks by the way, I always enjoy your videos.
Yes please do Waterloo and separately St Pancreas international.
Also Woking station has a special place in my heart!
St Pancreas - the forgotten twin of Liver Pool Street?
Woking Interplanetary Station? (HG Wells The War of the Worlds reference.)
I was a nipper in the 1970s and if I recall correctly the Irish Republican Army were a bit busy round 'old' London Town. I reckon the proposals for White City were published and not long afterwards Harold Wilson probably got a phone call from a chap with a pronounced Irish accent who said, "Harold, don't bother!"
I don't live in the UK, and rarely visit London, but I absolutely love your videos! Interesting, informative and dryly funny! Thank you, and keep up the good work!
Your presence could only *raise* their property values. You *are* Jago Hazzard, after all.
There were also plans at the time of the London Motorway box to run a motorway alongside the railway in Balham, from where the M23 was supposed to finish in Streatham,up to around Clapham Common where the flyover would start that would land at (I think) Earls Court. With six train lines and six lanes of Motorway, either Balham would have ceased to be, or it would have turned into some sort of dystopian Morlock civilisation. I’ll leave the obvious punchline to you.
Waterloo & St Pancras? Do your magic Jago, do it! 😂
I've always wondered why Waterloo got such a fancy overhaul for such a short term plan. Did they always plan to move from Waterloo?
Apparently yes. But I guess they didn't know how long it would take to happen. I agree though, they did go all out for what was to only be temporary. They being said, it's working out pretty well for SWR now.
This was what I was wondering too. Video, please, Mr Hazzard!
Putting my vote in for a video about Waterloo and st Pancras in relation to the channel tunnel
@4:23 the old power station buildings were used as the ACME factory in Who Framed Roger Rabbit
I've said this before (quite possibly in response to one of Jago's videos (quite possibly more than once)) but the terminus so should have been Kensington Olympia from where it could link up with Motorail, the Underground, what would become the Overground, main-line services, it would just be BRILLIANT! And if we had bothered joining Schengen there'd be nothing to stop Nightstar services...
Motorail in central London is a big no no no!
@@f.g.9466 it was there before…
Admittedly it would be difficult to put it there now, but if it had stayed then traffic management would have taken account of that…
@@garethaethwy Just because it was there before it doesn't mean that it was ok or that it should've stayed or brought back again. Daily traffic jams were also there before in Amsterdam and all major Dutch cities.
@@f.g.9466 There were big plans to make Amsterdam more car friendly in the fifties and sixties.
@@rick11960 I'm quite happy that the Netherlands has made a 360° turn on their policies and urban planning.
Your opinion of Westfield is nearly as low as mine. One of the places that disappeared under that ghastly monstrosity was the LT Railway Training Centre, where I and countless others started their railway careers.
Yes please make the St pancreas station story! Would love to hear what happened with the HS1
Nice story about what ALMOST came about. I wouldn’t mind going into detail about Waterloo and St. Pancras
Think ypu missed that imperial college has been setting up a new complex on wood lane. Iirc this was where QPR were sniffing around for a new ground too?
Transport wise, there's the remains of a few rail spurs that used to go to the scrapyards further up scrubs lane (same road as wood lane) too which you can see a lot of when on the north western mainlane
The home of TV's 'Steptoe & Son'. Kept the location travel down for the BBC, studio footage and location could be shot on the same day.
Commuting into the area for years this was both a trip down memory lane and a fascinating glimpse into what did not happen - thank you!
As for that devil of a project - yes please!
Waterloo was the perfect terminus for the tunnel trains, I loved arriving there…
Some sensitive French people might have been annoyed at being reminded of that Irishman Field Marshal Wellesley and what happened at Waterloo.
You could pass that plan off as a limited edition Bauhaus print.
Truely, Bal-ham would have become Gateway to the South! Well, nearly.
Beldam In Balham if that occured, it could probably only take 1-2 more rail lines even without todays urbanization..
And the railway signals would go from green to double yellow to yellow to red and back to green again.
On my forge… .
I am glad I am not the only one who remembers Culture.
@@telhudson863 Nice update. 🤣
@@telhudson863 Peter Sellers......
Yes Jago, of course we want to see a video about that !
Waterloo and St. Pancras please. You want more!
Freight trains! I mean ... Goods Trains!
Very interesting and slick production, a high point was your reference to the potential for a Jago effect on property prices; I hope it proves so!
Ooh old railway station proposals, i love these things Jago
2:14 ah but Jago you filmmed the West Cross Route not Westway, sorry with my road nerd knowledge i couldn't leave it
Rather striking graphics. Congratulations to whoever designed them.
Brilliant. Thank you.
What an iconic video! lol. P.S. Yes, go on, I dare you to make a video about the history of Waterloo.
Jago starts "looking at the history of Waterloo" and gives up at 40,000 words, buys giant Toblerone and departs on Eurostar from STP.
As an aside, my grandfathers engineering company had an office nearby to White City and he recalls discussions in the mid-70's for a major new station. I think they were hoping for contracts.
If only they put it at Bank, since it’s not been getting really any crowds since the 70s.
Waterloo & St Pancras - go for it Jago! 😀
Not to scale, scale is extra - brilliant
The West London line is a lot busier than it was back in the early 90's too!
Overlooking it from my Aunts maisonette in Badrick Court, Battersea, I rarely saw any passenger services, it was mainly freight trains every hour or so.
Guest appearance by the old BBC Television Centre there - and for a whole generation of Brits, the postcode W12 8QT suddenly popped into their minds.
Jago, I enjoyed Jason Bourne's trip through Waterloo Station more than Harry Potter's visits to Kings Cross...
Victoria has the distinction of the Orient Express.
I was wondering what other London Terminus Stations have a proud movie history that might be worth exploring.
Of course, if somebody's already done that history somewhere else, thanks for posting about it and where to find it.
And now I have the sort of craving that only a giant Toblerone can assuage. Thank you, Mr Hazzard!
Also a 'concept' album 'White City' , Pete Townshend. Brilliant, if you like that kind of thing.(I do)
'White city, it's a joke of a name'
Could you do a video on transit-oriented-development around existing stations? Especially Kidbrooke. But you could look at Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Croydon, Sutton, Nine Elms, Elephant & Castle, Lewisham, Deptford Bridge, Woolwich, Plumsted, Beckton Riverside, Barking Riverside, Rainham (Beam Park), Barking, llford, Stratford, Wembley Park, Walthamstow Central, Tottenham Hale, Meridian Water, Brent Cross Town, All the Actons, Cheshunt, Luton Airport Parkway, Welwyn Garden City, Carpenders Park, Chelmsford, Queens Park/Kilburn High Road, Canada Water, Tolworth, Wandsworth (Gasworks), Neasden, and more.
To be honest I don't think he has the time
When I think about it an international station there would've been oh so convenient but it's a bit of a kerfuffle trying to go to the shepherds bush market. There's always something in the white city area causing traffic, I can't imagine what it'd be like if there were a whole super duper international train station.
Having cycled through Shepherds Bush/White city for the past 30 years, not sure about the urban development they claim. That was until they knocked down the over-road bridge in about 2000? Interestingly that bridge is featured in The Sweeney, the closing credits, from 40 seconds through to 53 seconds ruclips.net/video/XYPSH4Q40y4/видео.html
White City to White Elephant is peak Jago. ❤
Spent 1968 and part 1969 posted to the RMR centre at White City which at the time had a big parade ground and housed the stables for the Horse of the Year Show at the Arena. Heady days
Two transport-related videos with white elephant references on the same day :)
Also, the redevelopment of the area and the increased traffic and noise associated with the shopping centre was one of the primary reasons that most of the BBC moved out of Television Centre. I wonder if that would have happened much sooner had this plan gone through... Maybe the centre would have been demolished as conservation attitudes weren't the same back then...
I'm a huge fan of the revitalization of St Pancras (London terminus of my youth), but I too look forward to your attempt (well, anyone's really) to explain how it makes even a mote of sense to terminate a hugely expensive and strategically important piece of infrastructure like HS1 with a long tunnel that ends up on the far side of the city and facing back in the direction it came from, thus aborting any future stimulus (& revenue!) from possible future onward HS connections to other densely populated parts of the kingdom whose existence the planners surely had heard rumours about.
Go on, do that one Jago.
I’m not saying that architecture is that much better now - but imagine a 1970s terminus built on the cheap that would have appeared had this been built!
Surely, your presence would ADD to the value! :D
Yes you should cover Waterloo-St Pancras for a future video
Yes please re Waterloo & St Pancras vid - esp as neither were even options initially - going from plan to platforms faster than a white elephant 🤔
A Big Yes on the Waterloo & St Pancras (however that is spelled) videos, please.
Yes, Waterloo and St Pancras are surely worth a good look. Where and when can I get a couple of copies of your book? Keep up the great work!
If I may be so crass and greedy, I would very much love videos on Waterloo and Saint Pancreas. They could even be series, with individual episodes for the international bits. Other episodes for the individual international sites would also be appreciated.
PS-you wouldn't happen to be able to link your source for this, would you?
Brilliant video sir, have you ever thought of doing a video on North woolwich remaining as a rail station.
I think he’s already done one.
Indeed what would make an interesting story is why was Waterloo abandoned in favour of St. Pancras.
Yes, please do it.
Triloligy is worth a like all on its own. 👍
Let us remember Westfeild got built because it wasn't Government money and the site had been empty since the 1948 Olympics!
As a local, we got 2 new train stations, a bus station and a new library. I also no longer need to go into oxford st so Im happy!😂
There is a certain "rightness" about it being at White City and being able to connect to the West Coast Mainline for complete travel throughout the UK. Makes you wonder if things may have been very different for HS2..... Or HS1.5 as it may have been.
I'd like a video on Waterloo, if only because it's impossible to repeat too often, that Britain's first international trains (from France) terminated at _Waterloo_ International. 😂
You should do that Waterloo and St Pancras video!!!
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Waterloo's history is a multi-part thing. Not least the line through the middle whose last passenger was Queen Victoria
Love that Jago, my take on that is they bulldozed the greyhound track let the BBC( theee buildings)in and that was that. So really it would have just been barking mad with a license.
Another spectacular video Jago :D
Anyone else glad it wasn't built, and we got Waterloo and eventually St Pancras instead? Both Zone 1, central stations, just what a high speed railway should aim for.
I think there is hint there that White City would have been a major station but would have had potential connections and possibly through running to other parts of the UK. Something that neither Waterloo and St Pancras have. (although its pretty obvious from google maps that if you skipped St Pancras itself, a through connection could be made relatively easily). Is there some thinking that says "everything must terminate in London" ?
On a related thing, is there a way that Waterloo could have been made to work or would tunneling under south London to put in a high speed line just have been completely impractical from the outset.?
If you want the money, then YES, everything must "terminate in..."
An idea for another trilogy
Waterloo, St. Pancras International and giant Toblerones 😅
@1:00-don't be ridiculous. Everybody knows that the presence of Jago is enough to boost values by about 30%. Being the subject of a video? Well, that's another 25% on its own.
They should be considering themselves very fortunate to have been blessed so.
St Pancras and the size of beer barrells makes that one a dead cert for you!
How about the Watkin Plan for a Channel Tunnel? It will make up for the absence of Mr. C. Tyson-Yerkes
was there any plans to have a rail ferry across the straights of Dover, similar to the ferries on the great lakes, would actually make sense in those days, though, I do not know if the weather was considered too off-kilter for that
Yes please histories of bison pancreas and Waterloo would be very interesting
"Scale is extra" 😂😂😂☠️
Perhaps White City International station would have be ideal for Eurostar and Shepards Bush close by to White City and Westfield London. As a replacement for London Waterloo International station.
Yes please to Waterloo and St Pancras
Jago: you are the giant Toblerone to my sweet tooth.
Video suggestion: Something about Waterloo and St. Pancras and the Eurostar would be cool, but I'm interested in the route the Eurostar took to Waterloo. I've searched for a map of the route, and it's damn near impossible to find (mostly just find maps of the current route to St. Pancras). I think I found one once that was very simplified. I did also once see a video someone took from the Eurostar leaving Waterloo as it headed through the suburbs to the tunnel, but it mostly just showed trees and houses. A video where you look at some details of the route (location shots, similar to what you usually show, such as in this video), and if you can find a detailed map, would be terrific.
There was a plan for a new line in tunnel to Waterloo, but the actual Channel Tunnel route before HS1 was built was essentially the old boat train route to Victoria, but diverted in inner London to Waterloo using a new spour nbear Stewrats Lane - from Folkestone on existing track via Ashford and Tonbridge to the flying junctions at Chiselhurst, then via Bromley South and either Catford or Herne Hill (depending on available paths) to the Stewarts Lane area, where the new flyover carried trains down to the South Western line just east of Queenstown Road, and thus to Waterloo.
@@norbitonflyer5625 And that's the sort of video I'd enjoy from Jago!
I'm American, I have visited London, I even took the Eurostar from Paris to St. Pancras, but I visited mostly north of the river, and I definitely am not familiar with most of the places you mentioned.
The former boat trains would be another idea for a video that he could do. I know absolutely nothing about them except that they existed. And it seems odd to me that they would go to Victoria, instead of say, London Bridge.
"For you non-Londoners (...) the line would've gone thus: *shows a squiggly line on a blank canvas*"
Absolutely brilliant dig at us non-beaneaters!