Some times facing your problems head on Makes worse then avoiding. Often avoiding does leave longer term survival then facing head on and getting destroyed
@@RebelRosers Well, no one said you have to go in blind, unprepared, or without consideration... Remember there is a difference in bravery and stupidity.
@@RebelRosersbeing destroyed? He died how he wanted to, honorably, a real king of Rohan. He wasn’t destroyed he succeeded. Did he live as long as he wanted? Maybe not, but he lived as long as he needed, and that’s more than enough. Don’t insult Theodon like that ever again.
Certainly the best scene in the lord of the rings films. The kind of scene that no matter how many times I watch it hits just as hard as the first time.
It’s my favorite part of the movie! Rewatched the extended editions in the theaters, I got goosebumps. Makes me tear up every time I saw it. I feel it hits differently now as an adult then when I first saw it as a child. It’s inspiring and beautiful in a bittersweet way! 🥲🩷
The big tough orcs aren't so tough once they see a few thousand Rohirrim galloping full pace at them while screaming "Death!" To be fair to the orcs, though, that would be a frightening sight for anyone to encounter.
At the end of shooting LOTR with Bernard Hill and Viggo Mortensen , the Māori extras and stunt doubles performed a dance that is only performed when honoring royalty. The Māori said they did it because Bernard Hill and Viggo Mortensen were true kings. So special.
@@thedragonwriter1073 Tolkien's one of the greatest writers of the 20th century, and Jackson and his people did a phenomenal job of adapting it. It's worth crying over.
Theoden’s reaction to Gandalf placing his hand on the throne like that is a direct call to how Wyrmtongue influenced him. A very subtle and beautiful representation of PTSD and the anxiety / trust issues which come from it.
Agreed. Wormtongue was right on his shoulder. Literally. So seeing Gandalf moving himself on the throne could be in his mind Gandalf trying to control him now.
Wormtongue, an untrustworthy and treasonous adviser, was in the habit of placing his hand on the arm of the throne in the exact same way. Therefore, when Gandalf does it, Theoden notices and rejects Gandalf's instructions ("you MUST fight") in order to avoid trading one manipulator for another. Also, while Theoden has regained his autonomy from Saruman, Wormtongue had already sown seeds of mistrust about Gandalf: He's a herald of woe, not welcome, a conjurer, lathspell (evil news), an ill guest. It's fair for Theoden to be wary of someone who frees you from one underminer only to insert themselves in their place.
I am blind now, but I saw this film countless times in my teenage and young adult age. So even though I can't see the spectacular scene, through my mind's eye and the accessibility of audio description, I still get goosebumps every single time the Rohirrim crest the fields of Pelennor. Thank you so much for this spectacular channel. I lost my sight at 24 and now at 34, I am effervescently doing what I want to do for the rest off my life. I am a mental health clinician treating others dealing with grief and trauma. Having knowledge in this field, this mental health approach to all these top tier films, is so absolutely fantastic! You have a sub for life from me!
You should listen to the audio of tolkien reading this scene with the music and sound from the movie in the background, I think it is somewhere on youtube. I get chills every time.
I read your comment and came here to say exactly what abigail said, I hope you're able to find that audio of tolkein reading the scene! It truly is incredible, he's already got a quavering old man voice when the recording was made, and it's like being read to by Homer; hits like a cavalry charge, just like its meant to.
i took my visually impaired boyfriend with me to see them, lol. He loves the movies, too, despite the fact that he couldn't really see even then & he rarely likes movies.
I think Eowyn would make for a great psychology of a hero episode. Something along the lines of reconciling cultural expectations vs personal goals/values.
And actually if there’s not enough footage of her (a crime, really), a combined episode of her and Feromir would work. How to handle when those around you don’t see your worth or aren’t supportive of your values.
"No parent should have to bury their child" - Bernard Hill ad-libbed this because it was said to him by a mother who'd lost her son too soon. Peter Jackson kept it in because it rang true to Tolkien's themes. Tolkien saw so many of his friends die young and watched their parents grieve for sons who would never come home and you see that with Theoden's storyline.
I'm not even a parent and that scene always destroys me. 😭 However, I have lost people close to me and know all too well that it will always hurt beyond words on some level.
I lost my brother to drug overdose nearly two years ago now and my whole family struggled of course but my mother most of all and sometimes the grief would creep up on her and we’d all be enjoying dinner together or something and she’d suddenly burst into tears and she’d always try to apologize for bringing down the mood and every time I would tell her it’s fine and quote this, because it really encompasses it all. No parent should have to bury their child.
It's similar too, because Gandalf is manipulating the situation just like Wormtongue. The difference is that Gandalf is doing it for good, and to help, whereas Wormtongue did it to aid Saruman in sabotaging Theoden and his kingdom.
God damn. The “where is the horse and the rider” scene makes me cry every time! That terrified kid’s look of “are you fking serious???” When he’s handed an axe that’s bigger than him is god damn heart wrenching!
Hwǽr cwóm mearg? Hwǽr cwóm mago? Hwǽr cwóm máþþumgyfa? Hwǽr cwóm symbla gesetu? Hwǽr sindon seledréamas? Éalá beorht bune! Éalá byrnwiga! Éalá þéodnes þrym! Hú séo þrág gewát, genáp under nihthelm, swá héo nó wǽre. Where is the horse? Where is the fighter? Where is the giver of gifts? Where are the festive seats? Where is the joy of the hall? Oh blinking cup! Oh mailed warrior! Oh folk lord's adornment! How the time is lost, in night's helmet darkness, as if never been. The part of the anglosaxon poem "The Wanderer" of which Tolkien took inspiration for "Where is the horse, where is the rider..."
"The lights comes from everywhere. It makes no sense, but it's beautiful" so true. But it also reminds me of a quote from Peter Jackson(?) when when asked why the scenes in the dark were bright and 'where does the light come from?' he replied "the same place the soundtrack does
Ha! Someone should ask him why he made the greatest triology of all time and then crapped out Bilbo on three rolls of tp, no sorry I mean "the hobbit".
@@elincarlsson6388 I think that's been pretty well documented. Jackson and his team spent literally years planning and doing pre-production for the LotR movies, and had a great deal of control over the whole process. He was brought onto the Hobbit movies to replace Guillermo del Toro when things were already in motion, and only had three months of pre-production. There were definitely directorial decisions which were flawed in the Hobbit trilogy (the barrel scene and the half-hour Loony Tunes chase with Smaug inside Erebor were just execrable), but he was also trying to direct a freight train that was already in motion. BTW, some of the fan edits of the Hobbit movie out there actually salvage something pretty decent from the footage. I recommend the Bilbo edition.
@@elincarlsson6388he was literally writing the script on set before shooting and in and out of hospital with stomach ulcers. He did the best he could with absolutely no preparation after getting lumped with a project intended for another creator
Theoden is honestly one of the most relatable characters in the whole trilogy. he is no Paradigm of virtue he makes mistakes, has doubts, but still rises to the occasion.
Theoden is super interesting, because he’s just a guy muddling through life, trying to make the best decisions in the moment for his people, but like the audience, can be inspired by the bastions of virtue around him, find his inner hero, and fight for something much larger than the survival of his people.
I also love that Théoden doesn’t come off as avoidant the way cinema characters often do, because he does make the difficult decision of a proud man to pull back and hide, he does fight the wargs, he’s on the ramparts of Helm’s Deep. He’s so multi-faceted and Bernard Hill plays him so well. The moment when the beacons are lit makes me think of a description I read about the Carpathia pushing its engines well past their limits to come to the aid of the Titanic. That is a man who is about to go to extents no one can ask of him, but he looks at it and decides he can’t live with himself if he does anything less.
This exactly. He's honestly one of the most human characters in the last three decades of film, and he is such a phenomenal example of someone doing their best in the worst possible situations, and even after mucking it up doing everything in his power to get up and make it right.
Part of the reason he seems 'avoidant' is because this is one of the few bits of the movies where the conversion from book to movie hurts the characters. It's also, unfortunately, unavoidable because movies have fun time restrictions. There are two problems; the first is that the movies don't really do a good job of establishing the military geography of Middle Earth, and Jackson wasn't a professor of Anglo-Saxon literate and history and therefore wasn't familiar with stuff like how far an army on foot can march in a day. The second is Eowyn. In the books, Eowyn's entire character arc happens in RotK, but there's not enough run time for that in the third movie, so a bunch of it has to happen in TTT. That means Eowyn has to have a reason to stick with the viewpoint characters. At the same time, there has to be a battle at Helm's Deep, because that's where the big right is in the book. The result of this is Theoden evacuating the civilian population of Edoras to Helm's Deep. It's a nonsense decision; it moves them *closer* to the attacking army, and it means the only body of troops under Theoden's control is tied down defending a column of civilians instead of being free to act like an army. It's portrayed as a mistake in the movie because it *is* a mistake, and it makes Theorem look afraid and a bit indecisive. In the books, he sends the civilian populace of Edoras in the opposite direction. Eomer is also already at Edoras with his army. The decision to ride to Helm's Deep is taken because that's the primary fortress in the Westfold, and it's where Erkenbrand is gathering levies and where the remnants of the Rohirrim field army defeated at the Battle of the Fords of the Isen are retreating to. It therefore represents the location Theoden can safely assume has the greatest concentration of fighting power in the Westfold (remember, he doesn't know much more than 'orcs are invading from Isengard') and it's also a fortified location with ample stores of food from which he can operate. It forces Saruman to send his army to lay siege out of military necessity, because he can't afford to leave a substantial enemy force in a strong position at his back, as opposed to our of moustache twirling evil like in the movie. In other words, in the books it's actually a fairly decisive *offensive* move, not a defensive and somewhat indecisive one like in the movies. RotK has similar adaptation issues for similar reasons. It's just much easier to convey the sort of technical military and geographic information that underpins Tolkien's written version of the War of the Ring in writing than it is in movie form. Jackson could have done it, but it would have meant a while extra movie that wouldn't really have added much. The sacrifice is that it makes Gondorian soldiers look like chumps because the orcs have to actually beat them in combat, as opposed to the Gondorians absolutely ruining the orcs any time they actually fight, only to be undone by Mordor's overwhelming strategic superiority making their position untenable and forcing a retreat.
Well, it’s also because we are shown that very avoidant pride in Denethor. Both Theoden and Denethor face death ready, but Denethor is terrified and crazy, while Theoden is stout and steadfast, daring death to take him, and relieved when it does.
When Aragorn says "Ride out with me," many things happen. Aragorn knows it is unlikely they will live, and in that moment he meets Theoden on the hallowed ground of his ancestors/culture. The shared knowledge of ultimate sacrifice dissolves Theoden's doubt concerning Aragorn. In that moment, their preconceptions meld together into the first hope either has felt in some time. At that moment the sun rises as a beautiful reminder of the wills that drive middle earth behind the scenes. I don't think there is reason to doubt that the message of mankind finding hope through complete self sacrifice towards a common good was far from Tolkein's mind so many years ago. Many things captured beautifully in that scene.
Had the honor of meeting Bernard Hill at the Cincinnati Comic Expo last year. While I didn't get a Théoden headshot like many of the other attendees, he was incredibly generous with his time, smiling reminiscently while adding the "Take 'er to sea, Mr. Murdock!" quote to my Captain Smith headshot. His face lit up when I mentioned my parents had visited Titanic Belfast recently ("how wonderful - it's a **fantastic** museum!") and - in massive British understatement - casually cited the Ride of the Rohirrim as his favorite scene to film. When I picked up my autographed print, he clasped my hand with a warm smile, saying "Thank you for coming!" like each of us were the only fan he'd meet that day, despite hundreds turning up for him. "Forth, and fear no darkness!" RIP, Bernard Hill, our Captain and King.
😭😭😭 Due to circumstances, I wasn't able to attend that particular Con and I am soooooooooooooo torn up about it! He was one of my favorite actors and Théoden one of my favorite characters. Thank you for showing us what an amazing person he truly was ❤
"I know your face" is the kind of line that truly exemplifies what's great about LOTR. It doesn't further the plot, it isn't a deep and philosophical reveal of character, and, for all intents and purposes, it should just be a basic, throwaway line. But when he reiterates it to Eowyn at Pelannor Fields, this mighty leader of men cradling the face of his niece who he should've treated like a daughter, he realizes his self worth was based on who he was to Aragorn and his soldiers, but when he sees Eowyn literally posing as a soldier as an attempt for valour, he realizes that they'd both glamourized war, when it was never about the feats of bravery in themselves, it was about who he was doing it for. His men know Theoden by his sword and armor, yet he knows Eowyn by her face.
He did love Eowyn as a daughter. And he loved Eomer as a son. They are the children of his sister that he loved and he has been a parent to them. The line "I know your face" being the first thing he says when he comes out of the possession of Saruman repeated here at his death after she's saved him from a much more unpleasant one, it makes your heart break for the loving bond between these two. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@creepybantha1665 isn’t it kinda deeper? I always thought when he used it in Two Towers it was a positive reveal that his mind had returned. Seeing her on the battlefield - in a scary and dangerous battle - he repeats it so as to speak very personally to her, kind of to console her that A) his mind is still there, B) acknowledges she’s gone rogue as a soldier and accepts that, and C) tells her things will be ok in a matter of speaking.
@@MiasmicBlightAdmittedly, I may not have illustrated my point properly. In my eyes, Theoden seldom actually plays the role of King. Rather, he is more of a general throughout most of the trilogy. Everything he does, and everyone he talks to, he treats like the warrior he is, except for with Eowyn. So, yes, "I know your face" has all the purposes and meanings you mentioned, but it also conveys a warmth that isn't present in ANY of Theoden's other lines. At Helms Deep, Theoden says they're charging "for death and glory", but Aragorn corrects him "for your people." Since Eowyn is the only person he has left, she can be viewed as a manifestation of "his people." Therefore, the humanity and love of this last exchange between Theoden and Eowyn, to me, shows that Theoden has taken what Aragorn was trying to tell him to heart.
Theoden's rise out of despair is one of the most beautiful character arcs in LOTR. Wormtongue told him that he was old and incapable and so should look after his own comfort while he could. Gandalf called him to action and to risk all in hope. It makes Theoden's final charge and death all the more powerful. He rose out of a living death and chose to live without fear of death. Even if you're beyond your best days, you've failed, or you can't see how things could possibly end, it's not too late to "do [something] with the time that is given to you".
I also give Theoden more credit toward the start, I think some of the things he does aren't wrong. Like when he pulls Aragorn in and says that his men's courage hangs by a thread, he knows he's making a show as he says the enemy will break like water on rock, and he privately tells Aragorn, "I'm trying to keep up morale here, don't undercut that." He's making some mistakes here, but we've gotta give him credit, too.
I also don't think he's wrong in believing Gondor wouldn't come, between their tool of a steward and the position they are in, losing ground to Mordor, I don't think they would have answered the call for aid, though he should have asked for aid from the elves, since they obviously would answer considering they showed up anyway.
I always felt Aragorn learned a lot about being a king of MEN from Theoden, because due to his upbringing he always seemed better communicating with elves or smaller groups, one-on-one, etc. I think he learned a thing or two about leading armies and connecting with human warriors on a large scale from watching Theoden, just as Theoden learned a thing or two from Aragorn.
@jjohansen86, I was about to make the same point about that moment, but you said it better than I would have. Aragorn may be older, but he's never been a king. He had a lot to learn from Theoden.
@@pyrothelostone Well in the books, both Rivendell and Gondor were in open war with Morder and its allies at this point so most of their forces were tied up in defending their own lands. Thus why neither of them could attempt to reinforce Rohan against Saruman. The dwarves were also greatly diminished and scattered all over the place. Plans had been underway for thousands of years by Sauron to divide and weaken the Free Peoples of Middle Earth and this battle was at the culmination of those plans. Rohan was supposed to fall friendless so that even if they somehow survived they wouldn't be able or willing to aid Gondor. This plan very nearly worked but Gandalf's intervention and the courage of Men turned things around.
Theodan is a flawed man, he makes mistakes, he knows despair. He leads despite this, does the best he can, and when things seem darkest, and he feels the weight of his mistakes bearing down on him, he shouts CHARGE. He feels betrayed that Gondor abandoned his kingdom, but when Gondor calls for help he answers without hesitation. He carries on despite his human failings, which makes him the best of men, and a true king.
3:18 just a reminder to everyone that Theodin was a boy when Aragorn was a war hero who served with his grandfather and he still had the balls to say this to him.
@andylastname566 it's both because of numenorian ancestry (before it sank, most numenorians would live up to 200 ish), and the fact that he has elf ancestors. Fun fact, elrond is his great * many uncle. Remember that during aragon's wedding scene at the end of the movie.
25:54 Also that's the same army that slaughtered Faramir's men. They were confident in their victory over Osgiliath, and to see that SAME army, those SAME orcs have actual fear in their eyes as the Rohirrim are coming down upon them (even strongly outnumbered) is deeply satisfying!
I mean Faramir's men were far fewer (as seen here ruclips.net/video/N3qrhhMCJlI/видео.htmlsi=wfU3U1NeUrPhPaqs&t=123 ) and far less enthused about their attack
So I am adding some points here. 1. A small detail that I love so much is when Theoden says “for death and glory” Aragorn subtly and caring kinda course corrects him with “for your people” telling Theoden that it’s not about dying and glory, it’s about saving your people. Such a small thing to help this not be a suicide charge but a charge to victory. 2. A fun detail from the books about killing orcs, gimli is exhausted from running and battle and says something like “give me a row of orc necks and all weariness will fade from my body” so you are right, killing orcs seems to be therapeutic lol
Regarding #1: This is quickly followed by Gimli saying “The sun is rising…”. Giving more hope, while the music builds. Brilliant adaptation for the cinema.
Theoden’s speech when Gamling puts his armor on, “where is the horse and the rider”, is based on the Anglo-Saxon poem “the wanderer” which was the inspiration for Theoden’s character: a proud warrior living in the shadow of glory days long passed and searching for new glory and honor.
For every second of every moment, each time, from the blowing of the horn when they first arrive, the the speech, to the cries of “DEATH!!!” My hair stands on end, goosebumps freckle my body, and there is nought in my mind but the ability to cry and scream death with them and gaze upon the beautiful greatness that is the charge of the Rohirrim at Pelennor fields, and so I wept, and will weep, that ne’er shall there ever be a greater charge in cinema… Rest In Peace, Bernard Hill.. Théoden, King, and Horsemaster…
And then Jono had me crying at the end with "... the way to face death without fear is if you've had en entire life of facing things head on." Needed to hear that today! Thank you so much for your work! Love every episode you make!
@@CinemaTherapyShow yes, can we please get an episode about denethor for those of us who couldn't make it to the convention? And one about Éowyn's depression?
I took the glance by Théoden at Gandalf's hand on his throne partly as a trigger / warning because of Wormtongue's (Saruman's) whispers and manipulating/overtaking of him, and he was especially sensitive to it - he had just reclaimed himself, and he wasn't going to let another slide in and take Wormtongue's place.
Yes, this is how I took it as well. If I'm remembering correctly, I think it was mentioned in an interview or in one of the extended cast commentaries by Bernard that that was his intention with the glance.
Aragorn is usually held up as the popular hero-figure of The Lord of the Rings, but Theoden’s story always struck me as a scandalously underrated, deeply profound arc of leadership and redemption. What I especially love is that his type of heroism isn’t defined by a divine bloodline or by the "chosen one" trope, and he doesn't even display a ton of (physical) strength; it’s all about shouldering responsibility, wrestling with self-doubt, and finding the bravery to act when the odds seem insurmountable. His deeply human journey is a powerful reminder to me of the impact that "everyday" heroes can have.
My thoughts exactly. Théoden is the human hero, like Faramir and Boromir, fallible but brave and courageous and standing for his believes but also able to change his mind when he finds he made a mistake.
@@frizzlethecat2084 I was gonna mention Faramir! Similar situation where he’s just a genuinely good guy who triumphs in his personal struggles in a way that saves the entire world quietly. If he hadn’t let Frodo go, that would have been the end right there!
@@twipardist9742 As someone who's grown up with the books, Arwen being some kind of heroine was a first to me when watching the movies anyway. She doesn't really have a big role in there, and so Eowyn will always be my personal hero. I find her a good example for young girls, too. Best "Disney Princess" I can think of! (And I love many of the modern Disney princesses ;-) )
Bernard Hills performance as King Theoden is utterly sublime From his line delivery, to his facial expressions, to the very way he carries himself in each scene. One of the greatest displays of acting skill in film history May it's legend ever be worthy of remembrance Hail Theoden King!
What makes the ride of the Rohirrim even more moving is that they knew they rode to their death; its why they chant it. They all know that they must die for the survival of man, even if not their own. Its the ultimate sacrifice for a better tomorrow.
To add to this, Sauron has used death as a way to make mortals afraid. When Men die, they've been told they simply cease to exist. There is no afterlife or final resting place for their souls, like Elves have. So Men have always feared death, and it's how Men got themselves to this point in the Third Age and all the trouble they're in. The Ghost King feared it, so greatly he stayed in the mountains and was cursed as a traitor. To have an army of Men chanting "DEATH" as they ride into an impossible situation, no longer fearing death but accepting it, as no other group of Men have yet to do, filled the Orc army with a genuine fear of their own. Men accepting death as their ultimate fate, and as the fate they would bring upon their enemies, made the army that represents true evil feel fear. Their greatest "gotcha" against the race of Men was rendered ineffectual.
@@DasWarVorbestimmt no, but now a soul of them knew if they woudl survive, each of them charged, believing it would be their end. they all faced a certain death and some just got lucky
The ride of Rohirrim is one of the greatest victories of Humans in Middle Earth because here they conquered the fear of death. Even great men of Numenor were corrupted by Sauron due to their fear of Death, but here Theoden and his people have conquered it. That's the biggest f*** you they could give to Sauron and his forces.
I mean, Théoden was also bereaved with his son's death, which he completely missed because he was under Saruman's spell... imagine burying your own child, living with the guilt that they didn't get to hear your voice in their last moments, and then you need to immediately tackle an existential threat to your people, which your inaction/compliance under a spell just made worse... Hell, maybe Théoden being under the spell directly led to his son's death... I'd mess up a lot harder than he did... In other news, Ride of the Rohirrim will always be the most epic cinema scene.
Agreed. I think it maybe got glossed over in this particular video due to trying to make it more broadly accessible, but dude basically woke up from a coma to find his son dead and his home in shambles and his people actively dying. It felt relatable that he would need time to gather himself and get his feet under him again. Unfortunately for him, it was time he didn't have. He always felt so relatable for that reason. He "woke up" in the throes of a crisis and then was expected to first defend his own lands and then be expected to go defend Gondor's. One can see why that would have been utterly overwhelming for anybody, let alone a guy who had been so horribly manipulated. It just makes his character arc so much more fascinating.
I completely agree. I also think that Theoden’s bringing his people to Helm’s Deep was one of the more logical ways to keep more of them alive. Saruman was hoping to overtake Rohan easily with Theoden under his spell and dispatching a 10,000 strong army of Uruk Hai upon the land, part of Sauron’s plan of weakening the World of Men to expand Mordor through all of Middle Earth. Gandalf coming back from his fight with the Balrog ruined that plan…
@@rachel_sj Bringing them to Helm's Deep in my opinion makes more sense even from a fortress standpoint. Edoras was protected by very flammable and dense wooden fence. Helms Deep at least had the caverns for the women and children to hold in while the few amount of men could hold them off.
@@summeromeyer yes! Helm's Deep also guarded their backs for them by virtue of being part of a mountain, which means that they had a better chance of holding out. Edoras is out in the open on top of being flammable - it would take a much larger fighting force than they had to hold Edoras the way they held Helm's Deep
I think that it did because under Wormtongue's influence, Théoden refused to believe that Saruman was behind the attacks. Théodred an Eomer were strong military leaders. In their roles as the Wardens of Rohan, they were much more proactive at defending the borders. Théoden's inaction left Théodred vulnerable to attack and cost Théodred his life.
Same Alan. The entire theatre that I was in on opening day was screaming during the charge. If you haven't seen this played by a live orchestra while the movie is playing it is highly recommended.
Honestly, all the PSAs they show now about "Please go to the theaters to support the people who make movies" fall a little flat, but if they were to make those same PSAs revolving around "Remember all those great moments when the ENTIRE THEATER shared a moment, don't you want more of those experiences?!??!" they would be waaaa~y more persuasive.
@@LittleHobbit13, Oh, absolutely. A lot of people would rather sit thru LOTR or Endgame or Return of the Jedi for the zillionth time than fork over money for some of the new stuff.
Agreed about the live Orchestra--the Cleveland Orchestra did all 3 LOTR movies in the last few years, with ROTK being performed this past summer. The Ride of the Rohirrim was *incredible* with the live musicians killing it (for anyone who doesn't know, the Cleveland Orchestra is one of the best ensembles in the entire world--the New York Times has called them the best US orchestra repeatedly for decades now, and they get similar acclaim from critics internationally), the crowd absolutely losing it, and the epicness of the filmmaking all combining for this breathtaking, hyper-emotional, overwhelming experience. I get amped up watching that scene alone at home (it may be my favorite of the whole trilogy)--throw the atmosphere of the live musicial performance with that crowd response in, and I didn't lose that high for a few days afterwards!
No movie has made me cry more than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, been watching it for almost 20 years ever since I was a kid sitting in my room with the VHS box set, having had no DVR or normal TV in my bedroom I only had my VHS tapes in a cardboard moving box since they were cheap and my parents could afford it since we were poor. The biggest favor they ever did for me was getting the original VHS box set trilogies for Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Those very formative years of my life were directly influenced by these movies and bestowed morals that nobody else taught me at such a young age, Tolkien's work has influenced me as a person and I'm forever grateful.
every single time I watch the Ride of the Rohirrim, even if just as a clip I start crying uncontrollably The amount of courage or despair necessary to do what these people are doing is just so breath-taking
Theoden is my favorite character. With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains. Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed.
And don't forget the conclusion of this epic passage: "For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City." The whole section beginning with the Rohirrim arriving at Pelennor Fields and ending here is probably the greatest single passage of prose I've ever read.
The one scene I miss from the book is when Eomer looks out and sees the corsair ships and is ready to go berserker; then, they unfurl the banner of the High King, and Eomer tosses his sword up in the air and catches it. Gives me chills every single time.
One of my favorite moments in cinematic history is right when the oliphonts show up, sending all the Rhohirrim into despair, and you see Theoden's face go from "oh sh!t" to "...oh, f*ck you, REFORM THE LINES." It's such a small moment but such great acting. (And you also get an echo of it when Eowyn goes against the Witch King: terrified but not backing down.)
I think Theoden rides to Gondor’s aid because he understands what it is like to be left alone to fend for himself. He has that moment of weakness where he questions why he should help, which comes from a place of hurt and betrayal. But when the call does come, his integrity takes over. He chooses to be the ally that he needed Gondor to be for him.
Got the tears coming even before the title screen. Theoden is just the best, and Bernard Hill plays him with such meticulous care. Incredible character.
11:00 It was also good for him not to ask Gondor for help. Because Gondor would deny that request due to the general lack of their own forces. This would come off as a betrayal to Theoden, making him less likely to help Gondor in time of need. Now he could basically say "well, I didnt ask them, so they didnt betray me, so I have no reason not to help them".
The pause right before Theoden says Rohan will answer...what a masterclass in acting. You can see the fear of what will happen if he rides as he knows what he wants to do and the likely reality... ...and yet when he speaks it is with command and decision. 😢 So real. Just because we know when to do and how to do...doesn't mean it's not horribly terrifying to do it.
I get so immersed in movies that I usually entirely forget that it’s actors, polystone and an orchestra… so thank you for pointing it out, I went back and really watched him - it’s remarkable!
Masterclass in acting, and in editing. Let the pauses happen and don’t edit them out! Some editors would have cut it for “pacing” and that would have been destruction of art…
4:13 I don't think it's ego making Theoden react like that. Rather, what Gandalf does looks (superficially) very much like what Grima/Wormtongue kept doing. Literally, Grima puts his hand in that exact spot on the throne earlier in the movie. Theoden has been badly betrayed and magically mind-addled by what he thought was a friend and trusted advisor, to the point where his kingdom was being overrun and he did nothing. He didn't even get to say goodbye to his son. And here is another guy, a wizard no less, whispering in his ear. Gandalf happens to have the best intentions, but it would be really hard to trust a friend and advisor again after being betrayed like that, even when this one is actually genuinely your friend and giving you good advice.
Came here to say this. Even states in the commentary that Theoden sees his hand there and is reminded of Grima and how he (Theoden) was so easily manipulated. It's not ego, it's worry.
"No parent should have to bury their own child." I had my nana watch lotr with me when it came out on DVD, and this scene is what she connected to. She lost my uncle a year before I was born. Bernard Hill's performance here is so real and powerful, it's still the most emotional part of the trilogy to me
Thank you for making this episode! I had goosebumps through the whole thing! :D I had the honour of meeting Bernard Hill and presented him his sword, Herugrim, at a convention a couple years ago. I'm so glad I got this opportunity to meet one of THE BEST actors who performed such a brilliant rendition of an incredible character in the best movies of all time! Hail the victorious dead!
Theoden’s speech at the battle of Minas Tirith makes me cry every time, and keep in mind I’ve been watching these movies 6-7 times a year since I was 7 years old. I’m now 30, and his fearlessness and power and faith just destroy me, over and over again. Rest in Peace Bernard Hill, and thank you to him and Peter Jackson for this character portrayal. Wow. Did Tolkien’s writing so much justice.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who cries at the charge of the Rohirrim. The reason that scene resonates with me is not just the points Jono and Alan so eloquently cover, but also because it’s a desperate last stand against evil. The Rohirrim know that they are too few. They know they cannot win. But they charge anyway. That is true courage.
Tolkien used every ounce of his intimate understanding of Anglo-Saxon poetry-the love of the lament and longing for the battle -and life to build Rohan and Theoden’s character, and it was so beautifully honored in the films.
All hail the victorious dead, is a phrase very important to me. I am suffering from c-ptsd and even tho I made it through the worst of it by now as it seems, I still often think about my life as a war or fight that I‘ll only win if I do not quit on my own but live inspite of all the bad days I went through and will go through in the future. Besides the line „my head is bloodied but unbowed“ out of Hanley‘s invictus, sam‘s speech in osgiliath and this little line by Theoden are some of the most powerful sentences I can relate and live by. My grandmother on my mother‘s side passed away 2 years ago. She suffered from ptsd caused by her fleeing the red army in ww2 at the age of 6. she was a true fighter and the kindest most positively minded person I knew. To her life had to go on under the circumstances at present moment and no matter what they were not matter if it was fair or not. She died never haven given up a single day. And to me, she and all the other people out there like her that suffered through so much in their life and still won‘t quit until their way ends on it‘s own, they are the victorious dead. And indeed, all hail the victorious dead. May many of us that still fight join them in their halls of honor and rest.
Wow. My grandma was actually a soldier in the age of 18. And she was there to fight the red army. I wish had a 10% of her life courage... She was basically Eowyn of her time.
I don't think I've clicked on a video so fast. One of my favorite characters of all time - I even have a painting of him as my desktop background. When I recently rewatched the trilogy in theaters a few months back, I yelled DEATH, along with the rest of the theater. A very special moment indeed. I'd follow him into battle any day. ❤👑
Part of Tolkien's mythology in Lord of the Rings, the Simarillion, The Hobbit, etc. is that death is a gift from the gods to humanity. Humans get an afterlife no other race gets in Middle Earth. So it's a popular fan interpretation that when Theoden is screaming Death and reclaiming it as a rallying cry, it's because he's embracing this gift. While before he was so fearful of it, both for himself and his people, it's his embracing of it that leads him to do great things and become the king who can go into the hall of his fathers, in whose mighty company, he shall not feel ashamed.
To make it even better, in the lore, Sauron had corrupted this gift making death something to be feared. The Rohirrim crying out death is a rejection of Sauron's interpretation and accepting the original gift as intended
Shout out to the editing team! The timing of the sneeze, Jonos punch, the cry for "more" Orc slaying was finominal!! One of y'alls best episode edits yet!
Shout out to the ads as well. Right after his sneezing - literally the same moment - I got an ad of some medicine for cold and running nose. Awesome timing.
"I know art is subjective, but these are objectively the best ones." Truer words have never been spoken (about entertainment, at least). My extended edition of The Fellowship of the Ring won't play anymore and I need a new one. I thought I could live without it and turns out I'm wrong.
I resonated with this episode quite a bit because my toxic trait is I don't like when people try to help me when I don't ask for it, then I never ask for it even if I need it.
Clicked without hesitation, liked before it finished the intro. I love LOTR, I and love Theoden. Like everyone else, goosebumps with the Rohirrim charge and Theoden's speech every time. It's so epic! Rest in Peace, King.
I graduated from Auburn University. One of the professors in engineering won an Academy Award for LOTR. He helped developed the technology for all the CGI in the movie. Very cutting edge. It was originally being developed to help train military without the risk of killing someone or dying on the process.
Being a huge Tolkienite, and a soldier, seeing, hearing or even thinking about Theoden's speech fills me with such pride, and strength, and the desire to meet such glorious prupose head on that I can't help but weep. Theoden is, in many ways, another phenomenal example of positive masculinity and an amazing role model for people seeking that kind of influence in their lives
I was 13 when RotK was released? I remember sitting in the theater with my dad and looking over at him at the Rohirrim charge and yeah he was just-white knuckled on the seat arm rests and wide-eyed. It was the best.
This is for the editors who gave Jono's sneeze the attention it deserved. I usually come to this channel for a good cry, but this time I teared up from laughing so hard. Thank you guys!
I have seen reactors, who have never seen these films before, hoist replica swords into the air and, with tears in their eyes, shriek "Death" into their microphones. That's filmmaking. That's why we tell stories.
I hope I can face life the way King Theoden faced battle and death. The way he inspires his kingdom and his healing arc is so inspiring. RIP Bernard Hill ❤ thank you so much for all the memories and moments you gave to us - from Titanic to LOTR.
Can we please agree that Eowyn is probably the most amazing female character written in all history of cinema? Like, Holy shit, just pay attention to her, her story is absolutely awesome! She is a major inspiration in my life: the strongest warrior of all time!
no matter how often I see these scenes, I'm still getting goosebumps all over my body and tears in my eyes. Alan, I can relate to you having to cry over this.
Theoden has another purpose while he's ginving the "we have seen it before, we can rebuild" speech - he's projecting confidence to the defenders. By strolling around the defences, essentially showing them off to the visitors, he's telling them that as long as they stay true to their purpose, it'll turn out OK. Because if he'd appeared nervous, been giving it "not normal Orcs? Stronger, better armed and directed by an immortal, sort-of-angelic-but now evil wizard? Well, we're pretty much fucked, aren't we?" kind of energy, rthey'd have lasted about as long as a Mars bar in a blast furnace.
You made me cry laugh with Jono's nuclear explosion. That and the sexy music over Legolas staring directly into camera. 😂 Don't ever change the way you edit your videos.
Fun fact, the scene where Aragorn says "War is upon you, whether you'd have it or not" - Aragorn is 84. He fought beside Theoden's grandad. That's not Theoden being dismissive of a young up & comer that he doesn't think knows anything, that's him being dismissive of an _elder_ (prolly out of pride).
I love Theoden. Theoden to me is the exemplar of how people need to do whatever they can that is right, even if you know full well your efforts will end unsuccessful. Theoden may do it by taking 6,000 spears to Gondor and fighting a hopeless battle, which is something we'll never do. We can still do what we can to support and defend what is right. Theoden is also a reminder that you might be doing more and better than you think of yourself. His dying words are to say that he finally thinks he's done something in his life that wasn't something to be ashamed of. Something tells me that Theoden's fathers will be honored to rest in his mighty company, rather than the other way around.
When he says "no parent should have to bury their child"........ I die. It kills me inside every time. I still hear my Grandmother saying almost the exact thing when my Mom died... and then my Pops died... and she still lived... and there at the end of the war for Gondor... when Theoden dies... it rips through my heart. And I think I cry through like 60% or more of the movies... best films ever.
I think you guys got this mostly correct. He was running to Helm’s Deep and it was out of fear but it was the correct decision. They could not have matched the Orcs in open combat. They needed the tactical advantage of a fort.
Honestly there is value in both, we all understand the value of a big wall, but his people are horse people and horses need open flat space. I could see a world where they used Mongolian tactics, and just harassed the orcs for days while they traveled to helms deep. When they made their last stand or rather charged out of the keep, just like the lights bit, it's cool but it doesn't make sense for the horses to push past that many orcs. I mean they would really have to jumping off the ledge to make way for them.
You're right but I think the point they were trying to make is that people who avoid often do so under the guise of some valid justification. Like yes it was necessary to retreat but he had a dual purpose in doing so. A selfless one and a selfish one, which made him insecure and defensive. This double-mindedness was overcome by theoden when he re-grounded himself in his identity and values. He was then able to pursue justice with a unified purpose of mind.
Heh in fact in the book it's Theoden who wants to ride out to death and ruin and revenge and it's Gandalf and co who convince him to go to Helm's Deep instead.
What is even better about Theoden's acceptance of his responsibility and the Death cry is that the concept of mortality is Eru Iluvatar's (God in the world of Lord of the Rings) gift to mankind. Elves don't age and even when they're killed they go to the Halls of Mandos in the Undying Lands (across the Western Seas) where they will eventually be resurrected. Only Eru knows where mankind goes after death, but they explicitly do not get resurrected*. This is a gift because they don't have to see the world change around them like the elves do and they appreciate the gift of life and can make the most if it. The fear of death and wish for immortality is what Sauron manipulated to get the men of Numenor to attempt to invade the Undying Lands, which leads to Numenor's destruction. Theoden and his riders don't make this same mistake, they embrace their mortality for what it is and make that all the clearer by shouting Death. This also ties in with Theoden's feeling of inferiority. He feels as if his forefathers were so much greater than him, with champions like Helm Hammerhand. His manipulation by Grima & Saruman only contributes to this and he frankly also feels like he's inferior to Aragorn who has so many friends and allies (the elves, Gandalf) whereas Theoden feels like he doesn't have any. Yet when he lies dying having accepted mortality for what it is and having come to the aid of Gondor he knows he has lived up to his forefathers. For anyone more interested in this, I recommend you read the books but also to listen to Tolkien's reading of the Ride of the Rohirrim as it is portrayed in the book. He makes it very clear that there is a real possibility of Theoden fleeing at the last moment before the charge, but when he does charge forward he is like nothing anyone in that age has ever seen before. RIP Bernard Hill. *The man Beren is resurrected in the Silmarillion but even then he is mortal and when he eventually dies again he is dead for good. This is the only exception to the rule as far as I know.
@25:00 It's worth knowing that in Tolkien's legendarium, death was the greatest gift ever given to Men, and Sauron (it might have been his master Morgoth, can't recall) who corrupted the gift by making Men afraid of death. The brilliance of Theoden's speech in the film during the charge of the Rohirrim (which is incidentally borrowed from Eomer in the books, who notably says it *after* he finds Theoden dead and Eowyn near dead on the battlefield and thinks the battle is lost) is that it's the moment he well and truly overcomes the sense of despair he's had since before the Battle of Helm's Deep. He doesn't know if any of the Gondorians in Minas Tirith are still alive, but chooses to hope Rohan arrived in time to aid them, and by chanting "death", they overcome their fear of it and turn that fear on the Orcs, who thought a few arrow volleys would be enough to break the Rohirrim's will like it did with Faramir's men when they tried to retake Osgiliath.
One of my favorite little tidbits about the Ride of the Rohirim is that I belive this is one of if not the first time the Orcs show fear of an enemy. And from a military standpoint, that fear broke their lines and made them unable to stand against the Rohirim. Theodin took his old fear and just gave it to the orcs lol
One of the few scenes I shall forever get so many goosebumbs from, that travel straight to my eyes. Even when I'm 90, I want to rewatch these movies yearly and marvel at all the beauty: Images, music, healthy role models, love, friendship, loyalty, and incredible bravery in the face of evil.
Over many years (I first read the Lord of the Rings as a young teenager in 1965) the arc of the story of Théoden, the King of Rohan, has come to have great meaning. Having been called back from personal despair by Gandalf, Théoden over the course of a few days led his folk beyond hope through indomitable courage. And, of course, Bernard Hill inhabited the role of Théoden perfectly. It may be due, in a large part, to Bernard Hill’s particular excellence in the creation of onscreen Théoden, that the Théoden of the films is so very like the Théoden of the book. Though the details of Théoden’s particular journey from Edoras to Helms Deep were somewhat altered for the film, the rapid arc of Théoden’s recovery from his ineffectual poisoned state to his late life burst of effective heroic leadership was masterfully translated from Professor Tolkien’s book to Sir Peter Jackson’s movies.
Alan, I really appreciate how you aren't afraid to show your emotions. As another male who is maybe more emotional than other men, it is empowering to see another Man who is confident in his feelings. That to me is true masculinity. Thank you for being a guiding light for me.
The best characters in any fiction are ones that have flaws that feel real, flaws we can relate to, that make us feel connected to that character. It makes watching them climb up, above their flaws, maybe not getting sucess but having the satisfaction that they sure as heck tried their best... Just feels so inspiring and just fills your heart with this desire to put all you've got into your life too. Man LotR is the GOAT of all trilogies. 10/10 would watch again... And again, and again, and again.
24:35 Basically "With great power comes great responsibility." Amazing how the messages in things like comic books can translate so well into real life.
Which is because that line isn't actually from comics, but rather, it's simply a rephrase of the concluding moral of the Parable of the Talents: "To whom much is given, much is required." And if you don't understand how influential that Parable is, the only reason we have the word "talent" in English meaning "an activity one is skilled at" is entirely due to that Parable, as prior to it being recorded and taught a "talent" was a term of silver coinage. It's literally like calling people's skills "dollars".
Is there a term for when you're so overwhelmed with emotion in awe-inspiring situations that you are brought to tears? The ride of the Rohirrim, for example, makes me tear up and choke up. My wife is always confused by how I cry at triumphant moments.
24:10 you cant help but holler with the army. When i saw this when it first came out at the midnight showing, everyone in the theatre was yelling with the army, we were so pumped. Pretty sure we were heard 3 blocks away 😆
"My body is broken. You have to let me go. I go to my fathers, in whose mighty company I shall not now feel ashamed." 😭😭😭
😭😭😭
That whole scene, including the Witch King fight, was one of the best parts of the movie.
Some times facing your problems head on Makes worse then avoiding. Often avoiding does leave longer term survival then facing head on and getting destroyed
@@RebelRosers Well, no one said you have to go in blind, unprepared, or without consideration...
Remember there is a difference in bravery and stupidity.
@@RebelRosersbeing destroyed? He died how he wanted to, honorably, a real king of Rohan. He wasn’t destroyed he succeeded. Did he live as long as he wanted? Maybe not, but he lived as long as he needed, and that’s more than enough. Don’t insult Theodon like that ever again.
The Ride of the Rohirrim scene is-and always will be-one of the true greatest moments in cinema. In my humble opinion. It always gives me goosebumps.
One of, if not the single best sequence ever put to film.
Certainly the best scene in the lord of the rings films. The kind of scene that no matter how many times I watch it hits just as hard as the first time.
It still gives me chills no matter how many times I watch it!
It’s my favorite part of the movie! Rewatched the extended editions in the theaters, I got goosebumps. Makes me tear up every time I saw it. I feel it hits differently now as an adult then when I first saw it as a child. It’s inspiring and beautiful in a bittersweet way! 🥲🩷
The big tough orcs aren't so tough once they see a few thousand Rohirrim galloping full pace at them while screaming "Death!"
To be fair to the orcs, though, that would be a frightening sight for anyone to encounter.
At the end of shooting LOTR with Bernard Hill and Viggo Mortensen , the Māori extras and stunt doubles performed a dance that is only performed when honoring royalty. The Māori said they did it because Bernard Hill and Viggo Mortensen were true kings. So special.
OK, where’s the tissue? That’s such a great moment.
Thanks for sharing this, that’s so beautiful 🥹
I am so glad they did. Certainly the right guys to receive such an honor🤴🤴⚔️
I just cried watching the video and now I'm crying because of this comment what is going on with me?
@@thedragonwriter1073 Tolkien's one of the greatest writers of the 20th century, and Jackson and his people did a phenomenal job of adapting it. It's worth crying over.
Theoden’s reaction to Gandalf placing his hand on the throne like that is a direct call to how Wyrmtongue influenced him. A very subtle and beautiful representation of PTSD and the anxiety / trust issues which come from it.
Seconding this.👀
Agreed. Wormtongue was right on his shoulder. Literally. So seeing Gandalf moving himself on the throne could be in his mind Gandalf trying to control him now.
Exactly. Came looking for this comment.
Never noticed before, and will never unsee
Wormtongue, an untrustworthy and treasonous adviser, was in the habit of placing his hand on the arm of the throne in the exact same way.
Therefore, when Gandalf does it, Theoden notices and rejects Gandalf's instructions ("you MUST fight") in order to avoid trading one manipulator for another.
Also, while Theoden has regained his autonomy from Saruman, Wormtongue had already sown seeds of mistrust about Gandalf: He's a herald of woe, not welcome, a conjurer, lathspell (evil news), an ill guest.
It's fair for Theoden to be wary of someone who frees you from one underminer only to insert themselves in their place.
I am blind now, but I saw this film countless times in my teenage and young adult age. So even though I can't see the spectacular scene, through my mind's eye and the accessibility of audio description, I still get goosebumps every single time the Rohirrim crest the fields of Pelennor. Thank you so much for this spectacular channel. I lost my sight at 24 and now at 34, I am effervescently doing what I want to do for the rest off my life. I am a mental health clinician treating others dealing with grief and trauma. Having knowledge in this field, this mental health approach to all these top tier films, is so absolutely fantastic! You have a sub for life from me!
Thank you. Such inspirational words.
You should listen to the audio of tolkien reading this scene with the music and sound from the movie in the background, I think it is somewhere on youtube. I get chills every time.
I read your comment and came here to say exactly what abigail said, I hope you're able to find that audio of tolkein reading the scene! It truly is incredible, he's already got a quavering old man voice when the recording was made, and it's like being read to by Homer; hits like a cavalry charge, just like its meant to.
i took my visually impaired boyfriend with me to see them, lol. He loves the movies, too, despite the fact that he couldn't really see even then & he rarely likes movies.
I think Eowyn would make for a great psychology of a hero episode. Something along the lines of reconciling cultural expectations vs personal goals/values.
YES!!!
1000%. Jono and Alan MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!
I love her. I 💯 endorse this idea 😊
And actually if there’s not enough footage of her (a crime, really), a combined episode of her and Feromir would work. How to handle when those around you don’t see your worth or aren’t supportive of your values.
YASSSSSSS
The editors didn't have to go that hard with Jono's sneeze, but I'm glad they did.
So good 😂
Internet Dad Sneeze!
I'm glad they did. I laughed waaay harder than was necessary
@@DanParker89same here.
I made the mistake of taking a sip of my lemonade right before it hit and I almost did a spit take all over my computer
"No parent should have to bury their child" - Bernard Hill ad-libbed this because it was said to him by a mother who'd lost her son too soon. Peter Jackson kept it in because it rang true to Tolkien's themes. Tolkien saw so many of his friends die young and watched their parents grieve for sons who would never come home and you see that with Theoden's storyline.
wow, I didn't know. It's a great line, I don't have children but it still makes me cry, and the delivery is perfect
That line hit my dad hard when I was a kid, he just hugged me tight. I'll always remember that.
Sincei heard this it's stuck with mrepeve sadly had to repeat it.
I'm not even a parent and that scene always destroys me. 😭 However, I have lost people close to me and know all too well that it will always hurt beyond words on some level.
I lost my brother to drug overdose nearly two years ago now and my whole family struggled of course but my mother most of all and sometimes the grief would creep up on her and we’d all be enjoying dinner together or something and she’d suddenly burst into tears and she’d always try to apologize for bringing down the mood and every time I would tell her it’s fine and quote this, because it really encompasses it all. No parent should have to bury their child.
The glance down at Gandalf's hand on the throne is EXACTLY a parallel to Wormtongue placing his hand on the throne in the same way. I love that.
It's similar too, because Gandalf is manipulating the situation just like Wormtongue. The difference is that Gandalf is doing it for good, and to help, whereas Wormtongue did it to aid Saruman in sabotaging Theoden and his kingdom.
God damn. The “where is the horse and the rider” scene makes me cry every time! That terrified kid’s look of “are you fking serious???” When he’s handed an axe that’s bigger than him is god damn heart wrenching!
Hwǽr cwóm mearg?
Hwǽr cwóm mago?
Hwǽr cwóm máþþumgyfa?
Hwǽr cwóm symbla gesetu?
Hwǽr sindon seledréamas?
Éalá beorht bune! Éalá byrnwiga!
Éalá þéodnes þrym! Hú séo þrág gewát,
genáp under nihthelm, swá héo nó wǽre.
Where is the horse?
Where is the fighter?
Where is the giver of gifts?
Where are the festive seats?
Where is the joy of the hall?
Oh blinking cup! Oh mailed warrior!
Oh folk lord's adornment! How the time is lost,
in night's helmet darkness, as if never been.
The part of the anglosaxon poem "The Wanderer" of which Tolkien took inspiration for "Where is the horse, where is the rider..."
@@jarlnils435 this!
@@jarlnils435 I did not know this! That’s so cool!
@@jarlnils435 The Wanderer must be one of the loneliest poems ever written. I think that's why I love Theodan's version so much.
Gondor calls for aid.
And Rohan will answer.
Chills every time. RIP Bernard Hill.
Bernard Hill? Surely you mean Théoden Eorling, King of Rohan?
Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan... oaths you have taken; now, fulfill them all- to lord, and land!
Such a great scene after watching the beacons being lit over the White Mountains
I get the chills already with the beacons.
(even though in the book, no elves did show up to honour the old alliance of elves and men. Legolas was the only elf there, Gimli the only dwarf...)
"The lights comes from everywhere. It makes no sense, but it's beautiful" so true. But it also reminds me of a quote from Peter Jackson(?) when when asked why the scenes in the dark were bright and 'where does the light come from?' he replied "the same place the soundtrack does
Ha! Someone should ask him why he made the greatest triology of all time and then crapped out Bilbo on three rolls of tp, no sorry I mean "the hobbit".
Someone should've told GOT season 8 this
@@elincarlsson6388 Cause while he did the trilogy out of love, he did the Hobbit for money.
@@elincarlsson6388 I think that's been pretty well documented. Jackson and his team spent literally years planning and doing pre-production for the LotR movies, and had a great deal of control over the whole process. He was brought onto the Hobbit movies to replace Guillermo del Toro when things were already in motion, and only had three months of pre-production. There were definitely directorial decisions which were flawed in the Hobbit trilogy (the barrel scene and the half-hour Loony Tunes chase with Smaug inside Erebor were just execrable), but he was also trying to direct a freight train that was already in motion.
BTW, some of the fan edits of the Hobbit movie out there actually salvage something pretty decent from the footage. I recommend the Bilbo edition.
@@elincarlsson6388he was literally writing the script on set before shooting and in and out of hospital with stomach ulcers. He did the best he could with absolutely no preparation after getting lumped with a project intended for another creator
Theoden is honestly one of the most relatable characters in the whole trilogy. he is no Paradigm of virtue he makes mistakes, has doubts, but still rises to the occasion.
And I think that is far more beautiful, admirable, and inspiring than a perfect paragon of goodness.
Theoden is super interesting, because he’s just a guy muddling through life, trying to make the best decisions in the moment for his people, but like the audience, can be inspired by the bastions of virtue around him, find his inner hero, and fight for something much larger than the survival of his people.
The reason your dad is because of integrity
Not only that but between the movies and the book we get to see his story twice and learn from him even more
I'll be that person. The phrase is "Paragon of virtue" not Paradigm. I will now accept your hate
I also love that Théoden doesn’t come off as avoidant the way cinema characters often do, because he does make the difficult decision of a proud man to pull back and hide, he does fight the wargs, he’s on the ramparts of Helm’s Deep. He’s so multi-faceted and Bernard Hill plays him so well. The moment when the beacons are lit makes me think of a description I read about the Carpathia pushing its engines well past their limits to come to the aid of the Titanic. That is a man who is about to go to extents no one can ask of him, but he looks at it and decides he can’t live with himself if he does anything less.
This exactly. He's honestly one of the most human characters in the last three decades of film, and he is such a phenomenal example of someone doing their best in the worst possible situations, and even after mucking it up doing everything in his power to get up and make it right.
Theodan has always been a favorite character, book or movie. Bernard Hill did such an incredible job playing him.
Part of the reason he seems 'avoidant' is because this is one of the few bits of the movies where the conversion from book to movie hurts the characters. It's also, unfortunately, unavoidable because movies have fun time restrictions.
There are two problems; the first is that the movies don't really do a good job of establishing the military geography of Middle Earth, and Jackson wasn't a professor of Anglo-Saxon literate and history and therefore wasn't familiar with stuff like how far an army on foot can march in a day. The second is Eowyn.
In the books, Eowyn's entire character arc happens in RotK, but there's not enough run time for that in the third movie, so a bunch of it has to happen in TTT. That means Eowyn has to have a reason to stick with the viewpoint characters.
At the same time, there has to be a battle at Helm's Deep, because that's where the big right is in the book.
The result of this is Theoden evacuating the civilian population of Edoras to Helm's Deep. It's a nonsense decision; it moves them *closer* to the attacking army, and it means the only body of troops under Theoden's control is tied down defending a column of civilians instead of being free to act like an army. It's portrayed as a mistake in the movie because it *is* a mistake, and it makes Theorem look afraid and a bit indecisive.
In the books, he sends the civilian populace of Edoras in the opposite direction. Eomer is also already at Edoras with his army. The decision to ride to Helm's Deep is taken because that's the primary fortress in the Westfold, and it's where Erkenbrand is gathering levies and where the remnants of the Rohirrim field army defeated at the Battle of the Fords of the Isen are retreating to. It therefore represents the location Theoden can safely assume has the greatest concentration of fighting power in the Westfold (remember, he doesn't know much more than 'orcs are invading from Isengard') and it's also a fortified location with ample stores of food from which he can operate. It forces Saruman to send his army to lay siege out of military necessity, because he can't afford to leave a substantial enemy force in a strong position at his back, as opposed to our of moustache twirling evil like in the movie.
In other words, in the books it's actually a fairly decisive *offensive* move, not a defensive and somewhat indecisive one like in the movies.
RotK has similar adaptation issues for similar reasons. It's just much easier to convey the sort of technical military and geographic information that underpins Tolkien's written version of the War of the Ring in writing than it is in movie form. Jackson could have done it, but it would have meant a while extra movie that wouldn't really have added much. The sacrifice is that it makes Gondorian soldiers look like chumps because the orcs have to actually beat them in combat, as opposed to the Gondorians absolutely ruining the orcs any time they actually fight, only to be undone by Mordor's overwhelming strategic superiority making their position untenable and forcing a retreat.
...And Bernard Hill played the Captain of the Titanic in the James Cameron flik.
Well, it’s also because we are shown that very avoidant pride in Denethor. Both Theoden and Denethor face death ready, but Denethor is terrified and crazy, while Theoden is stout and steadfast, daring death to take him, and relieved when it does.
When Aragorn says "Ride out with me," many things happen. Aragorn knows it is unlikely they will live, and in that moment he meets Theoden on the hallowed ground of his ancestors/culture. The shared knowledge of ultimate sacrifice dissolves Theoden's doubt concerning Aragorn. In that moment, their preconceptions meld together into the first hope either has felt in some time. At that moment the sun rises as a beautiful reminder of the wills that drive middle earth behind the scenes. I don't think there is reason to doubt that the message of mankind finding hope through complete self sacrifice towards a common good was far from Tolkein's mind so many years ago. Many things captured beautifully in that scene.
I couldn’t even make it through intro without crying.
Trevor (the editor) made a killer intro! 😭
Lord of rings content guarantees tears
Came here exactly to state this... why on earth is this intro so damn epic!
Same!
The classic with a twist (damn youuu cinema therapy!!!)
Had the honor of meeting Bernard Hill at the Cincinnati Comic Expo last year. While I didn't get a Théoden headshot like many of the other attendees, he was incredibly generous with his time, smiling reminiscently while adding the "Take 'er to sea, Mr. Murdock!" quote to my Captain Smith headshot. His face lit up when I mentioned my parents had visited Titanic Belfast recently ("how wonderful - it's a **fantastic** museum!") and - in massive British understatement - casually cited the Ride of the Rohirrim as his favorite scene to film. When I picked up my autographed print, he clasped my hand with a warm smile, saying "Thank you for coming!" like each of us were the only fan he'd meet that day, despite hundreds turning up for him.
"Forth, and fear no darkness!"
RIP, Bernard Hill, our Captain and King.
Oh god! I wasn’t expecting to tear up reading this comment, but it got me. Clearly a true gentleman 😢❤
Frankly, I imagine it might have also been refreshing to have a fan for something other then LOTR.
That's awesome
Thanks for sharing this story
😭😭😭 Due to circumstances, I wasn't able to attend that particular Con and I am soooooooooooooo torn up about it! He was one of my favorite actors and Théoden one of my favorite characters.
Thank you for showing us what an amazing person he truly was ❤
"I know your face" is the kind of line that truly exemplifies what's great about LOTR. It doesn't further the plot, it isn't a deep and philosophical reveal of character, and, for all intents and purposes, it should just be a basic, throwaway line.
But when he reiterates it to Eowyn at Pelannor Fields, this mighty leader of men cradling the face of his niece who he should've treated like a daughter, he realizes his self worth was based on who he was to Aragorn and his soldiers, but when he sees Eowyn literally posing as a soldier as an attempt for valour, he realizes that they'd both glamourized war, when it was never about the feats of bravery in themselves, it was about who he was doing it for.
His men know Theoden by his sword and armor, yet he knows Eowyn by her face.
He did love Eowyn as a daughter. And he loved Eomer as a son. They are the children of his sister that he loved and he has been a parent to them. The line "I know your face" being the first thing he says when he comes out of the possession of Saruman repeated here at his death after she's saved him from a much more unpleasant one, it makes your heart break for the loving bond between these two. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@creepybantha1665 isn’t it kinda deeper? I always thought when he used it in Two Towers it was a positive reveal that his mind had returned. Seeing her on the battlefield - in a scary and dangerous battle - he repeats it so as to speak very personally to her, kind of to console her that A) his mind is still there, B) acknowledges she’s gone rogue as a soldier and accepts that, and C) tells her things will be ok in a matter of speaking.
@@MiasmicBlightAdmittedly, I may not have illustrated my point properly. In my eyes, Theoden seldom actually plays the role of King. Rather, he is more of a general throughout most of the trilogy. Everything he does, and everyone he talks to, he treats like the warrior he is, except for with Eowyn.
So, yes, "I know your face" has all the purposes and meanings you mentioned, but it also conveys a warmth that isn't present in ANY of Theoden's other lines. At Helms Deep, Theoden says they're charging "for death and glory", but Aragorn corrects him "for your people." Since Eowyn is the only person he has left, she can be viewed as a manifestation of "his people." Therefore, the humanity and love of this last exchange between Theoden and Eowyn, to me, shows that Theoden has taken what Aragorn was trying to tell him to heart.
I am a hardcore Tolkien book fan. But this was one of the scene changes that I did not mind so much due to Bernard Hill's performance.
The Patrons are the true MVPs this day
Theoden's rise out of despair is one of the most beautiful character arcs in LOTR. Wormtongue told him that he was old and incapable and so should look after his own comfort while he could. Gandalf called him to action and to risk all in hope. It makes Theoden's final charge and death all the more powerful. He rose out of a living death and chose to live without fear of death. Even if you're beyond your best days, you've failed, or you can't see how things could possibly end, it's not too late to "do [something] with the time that is given to you".
I also give Theoden more credit toward the start, I think some of the things he does aren't wrong. Like when he pulls Aragorn in and says that his men's courage hangs by a thread, he knows he's making a show as he says the enemy will break like water on rock, and he privately tells Aragorn, "I'm trying to keep up morale here, don't undercut that." He's making some mistakes here, but we've gotta give him credit, too.
I also don't think he's wrong in believing Gondor wouldn't come, between their tool of a steward and the position they are in, losing ground to Mordor, I don't think they would have answered the call for aid, though he should have asked for aid from the elves, since they obviously would answer considering they showed up anyway.
I always felt Aragorn learned a lot about being a king of MEN from Theoden, because due to his upbringing he always seemed better communicating with elves or smaller groups, one-on-one, etc. I think he learned a thing or two about leading armies and connecting with human warriors on a large scale from watching Theoden, just as Theoden learned a thing or two from Aragorn.
@jjohansen86, I was about to make the same point about that moment, but you said it better than I would have. Aragorn may be older, but he's never been a king. He had a lot to learn from Theoden.
@@pyrothelostone Well in the books, both Rivendell and Gondor were in open war with Morder and its allies at this point so most of their forces were tied up in defending their own lands. Thus why neither of them could attempt to reinforce Rohan against Saruman. The dwarves were also greatly diminished and scattered all over the place. Plans had been underway for thousands of years by Sauron to divide and weaken the Free Peoples of Middle Earth and this battle was at the culmination of those plans. Rohan was supposed to fall friendless so that even if they somehow survived they wouldn't be able or willing to aid Gondor. This plan very nearly worked but Gandalf's intervention and the courage of Men turned things around.
Theodan is a flawed man, he makes mistakes, he knows despair. He leads despite this, does the best he can, and when things seem darkest, and he feels the weight of his mistakes bearing down on him, he shouts CHARGE. He feels betrayed that Gondor abandoned his kingdom, but when Gondor calls for help he answers without hesitation. He carries on despite his human failings, which makes him the best of men, and a true king.
May Bernard Hill rest in peace. Gone, but not forgotten! Long live the king!!
Forth Eorlingas!
DEEEEEEEEEAAAAATH!!!! 💪🏻⚔️
HAIL THE VICTORIOUS DEAD!!
@@alihijazi4451 DEEEEAAAAATTTTHHH!!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️
He has gone to his fathers, in whose mighty company he feels no shame.
3:18 just a reminder to everyone that Theodin was a boy when Aragorn was a war hero who served with his grandfather and he still had the balls to say this to him.
Not super into LotR lore...does Aragorn have some elf magic affecting his aging then?
@@andylastname566Numenorian blood lineage
I forgot about that! Aragon is 87 for a numenorian and has longevity that is ballsy thinking about it
@@andylastname566 aragorn's ancestry has elven blood in it
@andylastname566 it's both because of numenorian ancestry (before it sank, most numenorians would live up to 200 ish), and the fact that he has elf ancestors.
Fun fact, elrond is his great * many uncle. Remember that during aragon's wedding scene at the end of the movie.
25:54 Also that's the same army that slaughtered Faramir's men. They were confident in their victory over Osgiliath, and to see that SAME army, those SAME orcs have actual fear in their eyes as the Rohirrim are coming down upon them (even strongly outnumbered) is deeply satisfying!
I mean Faramir's men were far fewer (as seen here ruclips.net/video/N3qrhhMCJlI/видео.htmlsi=wfU3U1NeUrPhPaqs&t=123 ) and far less enthused about their attack
I started crying at 0:40 and just kept going. These films never fail to move me. Just about time for my annual rewatch.
So I am adding some points here.
1. A small detail that I love so much is when Theoden says “for death and glory” Aragorn subtly and caring kinda course corrects him with “for your people” telling Theoden that it’s not about dying and glory, it’s about saving your people. Such a small thing to help this not be a suicide charge but a charge to victory.
2. A fun detail from the books about killing orcs, gimli is exhausted from running and battle and says something like “give me a row of orc necks and all weariness will fade from my body” so you are right, killing orcs seems to be therapeutic lol
Regarding #1: This is quickly followed by Gimli saying “The sun is rising…”. Giving more hope, while the music builds.
Brilliant adaptation for the cinema.
Theoden’s speech when Gamling puts his armor on, “where is the horse and the rider”, is based on the Anglo-Saxon poem “the wanderer” which was the inspiration for Theoden’s character: a proud warrior living in the shadow of glory days long passed and searching for new glory and honor.
I love that part ❤
One of my most favorite scenes in all three films.
Theoden is legit on my super specific lists of "characters that have somehow gotten me through a lot of hardship in life"
I love that and definitely understand why.
same honestly
Agreed, 100%. He's one of the best people to model ourselves on, I think.
For every second of every moment, each time, from the blowing of the horn when they first arrive, the the speech, to the cries of “DEATH!!!” My hair stands on end, goosebumps freckle my body, and there is nought in my mind but the ability to cry and scream death with them and gaze upon the beautiful greatness that is the charge of the Rohirrim at Pelennor fields, and so I wept, and will weep, that ne’er shall there ever be a greater charge in cinema… Rest In Peace, Bernard Hill.. Théoden, King, and Horsemaster…
And then Jono had me crying at the end with "... the way to face death without fear is if you've had en entire life of facing things head on."
Needed to hear that today!
Thank you so much for your work! Love every episode you make!
My AUDIBLE gasp. Thank you for this. More LOTR content, forever and always for eternity.
You're very welcome!
So many of LOTR's characters deserve their psychology episode.
Shoot, I’d like to see you guys tackle Rings of Power, but only Season 2.
@@CinemaTherapyShow yes, can we please get an episode about denethor for those of us who couldn't make it to the convention? And one about Éowyn's depression?
Same! I saw this and RAN lol
I took the glance by Théoden at Gandalf's hand on his throne partly as a trigger / warning because of Wormtongue's (Saruman's) whispers and manipulating/overtaking of him, and he was especially sensitive to it - he had just reclaimed himself, and he wasn't going to let another slide in and take Wormtongue's place.
Yes, this is how I took it as well. If I'm remembering correctly, I think it was mentioned in an interview or in one of the extended cast commentaries by Bernard that that was his intention with the glance.
I know it’s written that way in the book. Gandalf is great at reading people, but he goofed on that one.
You can even see in the clip they use, Wormtongue places his hand on the same spot on the chair.
That was definitely how I read it
Came here to say that, thank you
Aragorn is usually held up as the popular hero-figure of The Lord of the Rings, but Theoden’s story always struck me as a scandalously underrated, deeply profound arc of leadership and redemption. What I especially love is that his type of heroism isn’t defined by a divine bloodline or by the "chosen one" trope, and he doesn't even display a ton of (physical) strength; it’s all about shouldering responsibility, wrestling with self-doubt, and finding the bravery to act when the odds seem insurmountable. His deeply human journey is a powerful reminder to me of the impact that "everyday" heroes can have.
My thoughts exactly. Théoden is the human hero, like Faramir and Boromir, fallible but brave and courageous and standing for his believes but also able to change his mind when he finds he made a mistake.
Theoden, even with all his faults, is an excellent example of what a good king-and a good man-should be.
@@frizzlethecat2084 I was gonna mention Faramir! Similar situation where he’s just a genuinely good guy who triumphs in his personal struggles in a way that saves the entire world quietly. If he hadn’t let Frodo go, that would have been the end right there!
Yes, and I always related to Eowyn more than Arwen as a heroine.
@@twipardist9742 As someone who's grown up with the books, Arwen being some kind of heroine was a first to me when watching the movies anyway. She doesn't really have a big role in there, and so Eowyn will always be my personal hero. I find her a good example for young girls, too. Best "Disney Princess" I can think of! (And I love many of the modern Disney princesses ;-) )
Bernard Hills performance as King Theoden is utterly sublime
From his line delivery, to his facial expressions, to the very way he carries himself in each scene. One of the greatest displays of acting skill in film history
May it's legend ever be worthy of remembrance
Hail Theoden King!
What makes the ride of the Rohirrim even more moving is that they knew they rode to their death; its why they chant it. They all know that they must die for the survival of man, even if not their own. Its the ultimate sacrifice for a better tomorrow.
To add to this, Sauron has used death as a way to make mortals afraid. When Men die, they've been told they simply cease to exist. There is no afterlife or final resting place for their souls, like Elves have. So Men have always feared death, and it's how Men got themselves to this point in the Third Age and all the trouble they're in. The Ghost King feared it, so greatly he stayed in the mountains and was cursed as a traitor.
To have an army of Men chanting "DEATH" as they ride into an impossible situation, no longer fearing death but accepting it, as no other group of Men have yet to do, filled the Orc army with a genuine fear of their own. Men accepting death as their ultimate fate, and as the fate they would bring upon their enemies, made the army that represents true evil feel fear. Their greatest "gotcha" against the race of Men was rendered ineffectual.
"It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them."
But they didn't all die 😅
@@DasWarVorbestimmt no, but now a soul of them knew if they woudl survive, each of them charged, believing it would be their end. they all faced a certain death and some just got lucky
The ride of Rohirrim is one of the greatest victories of Humans in Middle Earth because here they conquered the fear of death. Even great men of Numenor were corrupted by Sauron due to their fear of Death, but here Theoden and his people have conquered it. That's the biggest f*** you they could give to Sauron and his forces.
I mean, Théoden was also bereaved with his son's death, which he completely missed because he was under Saruman's spell... imagine burying your own child, living with the guilt that they didn't get to hear your voice in their last moments, and then you need to immediately tackle an existential threat to your people, which your inaction/compliance under a spell just made worse... Hell, maybe Théoden being under the spell directly led to his son's death... I'd mess up a lot harder than he did...
In other news, Ride of the Rohirrim will always be the most epic cinema scene.
Agreed. I think it maybe got glossed over in this particular video due to trying to make it more broadly accessible, but dude basically woke up from a coma to find his son dead and his home in shambles and his people actively dying. It felt relatable that he would need time to gather himself and get his feet under him again. Unfortunately for him, it was time he didn't have. He always felt so relatable for that reason. He "woke up" in the throes of a crisis and then was expected to first defend his own lands and then be expected to go defend Gondor's. One can see why that would have been utterly overwhelming for anybody, let alone a guy who had been so horribly manipulated. It just makes his character arc so much more fascinating.
I completely agree.
I also think that Theoden’s bringing his people to Helm’s Deep was one of the more logical ways to keep more of them alive.
Saruman was hoping to overtake Rohan easily with Theoden under his spell and dispatching a 10,000 strong army of Uruk Hai upon the land, part of Sauron’s plan of weakening the World of Men to expand Mordor through all of Middle Earth.
Gandalf coming back from his fight with the Balrog ruined that plan…
@@rachel_sj Bringing them to Helm's Deep in my opinion makes more sense even from a fortress standpoint. Edoras was protected by very flammable and dense wooden fence. Helms Deep at least had the caverns for the women and children to hold in while the few amount of men could hold them off.
@@summeromeyer yes! Helm's Deep also guarded their backs for them by virtue of being part of a mountain, which means that they had a better chance of holding out. Edoras is out in the open on top of being flammable -
it would take a much larger fighting force than they had to hold Edoras the way they held Helm's Deep
I think that it did because under Wormtongue's influence, Théoden refused to believe that Saruman was behind the attacks. Théodred an Eomer were strong military leaders. In their roles as the Wardens of Rohan, they were much more proactive at defending the borders. Théoden's inaction left Théodred vulnerable to attack and cost Théodred his life.
Same Alan. The entire theatre that I was in on opening day was screaming during the charge. If you haven't seen this played by a live orchestra while the movie is playing it is highly recommended.
Honestly, all the PSAs they show now about "Please go to the theaters to support the people who make movies" fall a little flat, but if they were to make those same PSAs revolving around "Remember all those great moments when the ENTIRE THEATER shared a moment, don't you want more of those experiences?!??!" they would be waaaa~y more persuasive.
@@LittleHobbit13, Oh, absolutely. A lot of people would rather sit thru LOTR or Endgame or Return of the Jedi for the zillionth time than fork over money for some of the new stuff.
Agreed about the live Orchestra--the Cleveland Orchestra did all 3 LOTR movies in the last few years, with ROTK being performed this past summer. The Ride of the Rohirrim was *incredible* with the live musicians killing it (for anyone who doesn't know, the Cleveland Orchestra is one of the best ensembles in the entire world--the New York Times has called them the best US orchestra repeatedly for decades now, and they get similar acclaim from critics internationally), the crowd absolutely losing it, and the epicness of the filmmaking all combining for this breathtaking, hyper-emotional, overwhelming experience. I get amped up watching that scene alone at home (it may be my favorite of the whole trilogy)--throw the atmosphere of the live musicial performance with that crowd response in, and I didn't lose that high for a few days afterwards!
@@lindabrashear57 Yes I considered it a Life changing experience.
I didn't know that was a thing, I would love to see that!
No movie has made me cry more than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, been watching it for almost 20 years ever since I was a kid sitting in my room with the VHS box set, having had no DVR or normal TV in my bedroom I only had my VHS tapes in a cardboard moving box since they were cheap and my parents could afford it since we were poor. The biggest favor they ever did for me was getting the original VHS box set trilogies for Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Those very formative years of my life were directly influenced by these movies and bestowed morals that nobody else taught me at such a young age, Tolkien's work has influenced me as a person and I'm forever grateful.
every single time I watch the Ride of the Rohirrim, even if just as a clip I start crying uncontrollably
The amount of courage or despair necessary to do what these people are doing is just so breath-taking
Theoden is my favorite character.
With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains. Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed.
In a beautifully written book, that is one of the passages that is set apart and above, and never fails to move me.
This has all the cadence and power of the epic poetry Professor Tolkien devoted his life to studying. Incredible.
And don't forget the conclusion of this epic passage:
"For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City."
The whole section beginning with the Rohirrim arriving at Pelennor Fields and ending here is probably the greatest single passage of prose I've ever read.
The one scene I miss from the book is when Eomer looks out and sees the corsair ships and is ready to go berserker; then, they unfurl the banner of the High King, and Eomer tosses his sword up in the air and catches it. Gives me chills every single time.
Faithful servant yet master's bane
Lightfoot's foal, swift Snowmane.
I have a terrible memory but that epitaph always stayed with me.
One of my favorite moments in cinematic history is right when the oliphonts show up, sending all the Rhohirrim into despair, and you see Theoden's face go from "oh sh!t" to "...oh, f*ck you, REFORM THE LINES."
It's such a small moment but such great acting. (And you also get an echo of it when Eowyn goes against the Witch King: terrified but not backing down.)
I think Theoden rides to Gondor’s aid because he understands what it is like to be left alone to fend for himself. He has that moment of weakness where he questions why he should help, which comes from a place of hurt and betrayal. But when the call does come, his integrity takes over. He chooses to be the ally that he needed Gondor to be for him.
Got the tears coming even before the title screen. Theoden is just the best, and Bernard Hill plays him with such meticulous care. Incredible character.
11:00 It was also good for him not to ask Gondor for help. Because Gondor would deny that request due to the general lack of their own forces. This would come off as a betrayal to Theoden, making him less likely to help Gondor in time of need. Now he could basically say "well, I didnt ask them, so they didnt betray me, so I have no reason not to help them".
The pause right before Theoden says Rohan will answer...what a masterclass in acting.
You can see the fear of what will happen if he rides as he knows what he wants to do and the likely reality...
...and yet when he speaks it is with command and decision.
😢
So real. Just because we know when to do and how to do...doesn't mean it's not horribly terrifying to do it.
I get so immersed in movies that I usually entirely forget that it’s actors, polystone and an orchestra… so thank you for pointing it out, I went back and really watched him - it’s remarkable!
Chills. Every. Time.
Masterclass in acting, and in editing. Let the pauses happen and don’t edit them out! Some editors would have cut it for “pacing” and that would have been destruction of art…
4:13 I don't think it's ego making Theoden react like that. Rather, what Gandalf does looks (superficially) very much like what Grima/Wormtongue kept doing. Literally, Grima puts his hand in that exact spot on the throne earlier in the movie. Theoden has been badly betrayed and magically mind-addled by what he thought was a friend and trusted advisor, to the point where his kingdom was being overrun and he did nothing. He didn't even get to say goodbye to his son. And here is another guy, a wizard no less, whispering in his ear. Gandalf happens to have the best intentions, but it would be really hard to trust a friend and advisor again after being betrayed like that, even when this one is actually genuinely your friend and giving you good advice.
Came here to say this. Even states in the commentary that Theoden sees his hand there and is reminded of Grima and how he (Theoden) was so easily manipulated. It's not ego, it's worry.
Exactly! Theoden was in his "Caution" stage of things.
"No parent should have to bury their own child."
I had my nana watch lotr with me when it came out on DVD, and this scene is what she connected to. She lost my uncle a year before I was born. Bernard Hill's performance here is so real and powerful, it's still the most emotional part of the trilogy to me
I absolutely bawl at that line every time, because it is something close to a universal truth I think I had never had heard so succinctly put.
The Ride of the Rohirrim is a cinematic sequence that has *Never* failed to bring me to tears *every* time I watch it.
Thank you for making this episode! I had goosebumps through the whole thing! :D I had the honour of meeting Bernard Hill and presented him his sword, Herugrim, at a convention a couple years ago. I'm so glad I got this opportunity to meet one of THE BEST actors who performed such a brilliant rendition of an incredible character in the best movies of all time! Hail the victorious dead!
Theoden’s speech at the battle of Minas Tirith makes me cry every time, and keep in mind I’ve been watching these movies 6-7 times a year since I was 7 years old. I’m now 30, and his fearlessness and power and faith just destroy me, over and over again. Rest in Peace Bernard Hill, and thank you to him and Peter Jackson for this character portrayal. Wow. Did Tolkien’s writing so much justice.
King Theoden has always been the PEAK of an honorable man that has faced extreme pain and still maintained his integrity and courage.
Didn’t really maintain it though, and that’s part of what made him great.
He lost it and, even as the world collapsed around him, reclaimed it.
RIP Bernard Hill, a king who knows how to rally his countrymen 💪🏽
Forth Eorlingas!!
In Middle Earth and on the Titanic
Hail the victorious dead! One of the best characters from the best movies of all time. That intro... incredible.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who cries at the charge of the Rohirrim. The reason that scene resonates with me is not just the points Jono and Alan so eloquently cover, but also because it’s a desperate last stand against evil. The Rohirrim know that they are too few. They know they cannot win. But they charge anyway. That is true courage.
Tolkien used every ounce of his intimate understanding of Anglo-Saxon poetry-the love of the lament and longing for the battle -and life to build Rohan and Theoden’s character, and it was so beautifully honored in the films.
My father is a veteran and has always had a special connection with Theoden. Thank you so much for doing an episode on this wonderful character!
Tolkien was a veteran: he was in the trenches in the Somme in World War I. He knew what war and pointless death was all about.
Indeed he was. All of this Theoden love has really got me teary eyed. 🥹
All hail the victorious dead, is a phrase very important to me.
I am suffering from c-ptsd and even tho I made it through the worst of it by now as it seems, I still often think about my life as a war or fight that I‘ll only win if I do not quit on my own but live inspite of all the bad days I went through and will go through in the future. Besides the line „my head is bloodied but unbowed“ out of Hanley‘s invictus, sam‘s speech in osgiliath and this little line by Theoden are some of the most powerful sentences I can relate and live by.
My grandmother on my mother‘s side passed away 2 years ago. She suffered from ptsd caused by her fleeing the red army in ww2 at the age of 6. she was a true fighter and the kindest most positively minded person I knew. To her life had to go on under the circumstances at present moment and no matter what they were not matter if it was fair or not. She died never haven given up a single day. And to me, she and all the other people out there like her that suffered through so much in their life and still won‘t quit until their way ends on it‘s own, they are the victorious dead.
And indeed, all hail the victorious dead. May many of us that still fight join them in their halls of honor and rest.
Wow. My grandma was actually a soldier in the age of 18. And she was there to fight the red army. I wish had a 10% of her life courage... She was basically Eowyn of her time.
Jono's explosive dad sneeze gave me a well-needed cackle. This episode was perfect in every way
So glad you enjoyed it!
_"I know art is subjective but these are objectively the best."_
Truer words were never spoken.
I don't think I've clicked on a video so fast. One of my favorite characters of all time - I even have a painting of him as my desktop background. When I recently rewatched the trilogy in theaters a few months back, I yelled DEATH, along with the rest of the theater. A very special moment indeed. I'd follow him into battle any day. ❤👑
Does this advise work in real life
@@RebelRosers It's probably extremely ill-advised to yell "death" with dozens of others in any situation that _isn't_ watching ROTK.
Lol.... Me too .... Not disappointed
❤❤
I went and saw ROTK in the theater for an anniversary showing, and I think at least half the audience was shouting, “Death.” I was. RIP, Theoden King.
Part of Tolkien's mythology in Lord of the Rings, the Simarillion, The Hobbit, etc. is that death is a gift from the gods to humanity. Humans get an afterlife no other race gets in Middle Earth. So it's a popular fan interpretation that when Theoden is screaming Death and reclaiming it as a rallying cry, it's because he's embracing this gift. While before he was so fearful of it, both for himself and his people, it's his embracing of it that leads him to do great things and become the king who can go into the hall of his fathers, in whose mighty company, he shall not feel ashamed.
I never knew that…that’s beautiful actuallly
To make it even better, in the lore, Sauron had corrupted this gift making death something to be feared. The Rohirrim crying out death is a rejection of Sauron's interpretation and accepting the original gift as intended
There is a death that leads to life, rebirth into a better life
Shout out to the editing team! The timing of the sneeze, Jonos punch, the cry for "more" Orc slaying was finominal!! One of y'alls best episode edits yet!
Shout out to the ads as well. Right after his sneezing - literally the same moment - I got an ad of some medicine for cold and running nose. Awesome timing.
"I go to my fathers in whose mighty company, I know no shame." 😢 ❤ Every time !!!!
The charge of the ROHIRRIM still makes me cry. It's such a beautiful sequence.
Man, one of the most underrated characters in LOTR
"I know art is subjective, but these are objectively the best ones." Truer words have never been spoken (about entertainment, at least). My extended edition of The Fellowship of the Ring won't play anymore and I need a new one. I thought I could live without it and turns out I'm wrong.
Same, I need me a new extended Return of the King, because the old one got a bit scratched and stalls in some moments!
I resonated with this episode quite a bit because my toxic trait is I don't like when people try to help me when I don't ask for it, then I never ask for it even if I need it.
Clicked without hesitation, liked before it finished the intro. I love LOTR, I and love Theoden. Like everyone else, goosebumps with the Rohirrim charge and Theoden's speech every time. It's so epic! Rest in Peace, King.
I'm so glad to see a analysis of Théoden. He's one of my favorite characters of The Lord of The Rings!
I graduated from Auburn University. One of the professors in engineering won an Academy Award for LOTR. He helped developed the technology for all the CGI in the movie. Very cutting edge. It was originally being developed to help train military without the risk of killing someone or dying on the process.
WAR EAGLE!!! I got my masters in family therapy from Auburn.
jesus that's certainly an accomplishment
War Eagle!!! That's awesome! Is he still teaching there now?? Sure is great to be an Auburn Tiger!
Being a huge Tolkienite, and a soldier, seeing, hearing or even thinking about Theoden's speech fills me with such pride, and strength, and the desire to meet such glorious prupose head on that I can't help but weep. Theoden is, in many ways, another phenomenal example of positive masculinity and an amazing role model for people seeking that kind of influence in their lives
Seeing the ride of the Rohirrim at the theater at the limited screening back in June was truly an experience unlike any other.
I was 13 when RotK was released? I remember sitting in the theater with my dad and looking over at him at the Rohirrim charge and yeah he was just-white knuckled on the seat arm rests and wide-eyed. It was the best.
I watched that preview, like, five times before starting the actual episode. This has to be some of your best work - and what a powerful message 😲
This is for the editors who gave Jono's sneeze the attention it deserved. I usually come to this channel for a good cry, but this time I teared up from laughing so hard. Thank you guys!
Our editors are truly the best! 😊
4:57 Bless you, Jono, but also bless your editors. That was BRILLIANT.
I have seen reactors, who have never seen these films before, hoist replica swords into the air and, with tears in their eyes, shriek "Death" into their microphones.
That's filmmaking. That's why we tell stories.
I hope I can face life the way King Theoden faced battle and death. The way he inspires his kingdom and his healing arc is so inspiring.
RIP Bernard Hill ❤ thank you so much for all the memories and moments you gave to us - from Titanic to LOTR.
Can we please agree that Eowyn is probably the most amazing female character written in all history of cinema?
Like, Holy shit, just pay attention to her, her story is absolutely awesome! She is a major inspiration in my life: the strongest warrior of all time!
no matter how often I see these scenes, I'm still getting goosebumps all over my body and tears in my eyes. Alan, I can relate to you having to cry over this.
Theoden has another purpose while he's ginving the "we have seen it before, we can rebuild" speech - he's projecting confidence to the defenders. By strolling around the defences, essentially showing them off to the visitors, he's telling them that as long as they stay true to their purpose, it'll turn out OK.
Because if he'd appeared nervous, been giving it "not normal Orcs? Stronger, better armed and directed by an immortal, sort-of-angelic-but now evil wizard? Well, we're pretty much fucked, aren't we?" kind of energy, rthey'd have lasted about as long as a Mars bar in a blast furnace.
Yes ! the speech is not for him but for the other, to remember that there is hope for after
This!!!
You made me cry laugh with Jono's nuclear explosion. That and the sexy music over Legolas staring directly into camera. 😂 Don't ever change the way you edit your videos.
Fun fact, the scene where Aragorn says "War is upon you, whether you'd have it or not" - Aragorn is 84. He fought beside Theoden's grandad. That's not Theoden being dismissive of a young up & comer that he doesn't think knows anything, that's him being dismissive of an _elder_ (prolly out of pride).
hahaha ahh yes the young age of 84. it's hard to remember that when he looks that good, and men's lives and memory are so short.
I love Theoden. Theoden to me is the exemplar of how people need to do whatever they can that is right, even if you know full well your efforts will end unsuccessful. Theoden may do it by taking 6,000 spears to Gondor and fighting a hopeless battle, which is something we'll never do. We can still do what we can to support and defend what is right. Theoden is also a reminder that you might be doing more and better than you think of yourself. His dying words are to say that he finally thinks he's done something in his life that wasn't something to be ashamed of. Something tells me that Theoden's fathers will be honored to rest in his mighty company, rather than the other way around.
When he says "no parent should have to bury their child"........ I die. It kills me inside every time. I still hear my Grandmother saying almost the exact thing when my Mom died... and then my Pops died... and she still lived... and there at the end of the war for Gondor... when Theoden dies... it rips through my heart. And I think I cry through like 60% or more of the movies... best films ever.
I loved this character and actor. RIP. Some reviewer said that he was a great example of king for Aragon. I agree.❤
I think you guys got this mostly correct. He was running to Helm’s Deep and it was out of fear but it was the correct decision. They could not have matched the Orcs in open combat. They needed the tactical advantage of a fort.
Honestly there is value in both, we all understand the value of a big wall, but his people are horse people and horses need open flat space. I could see a world where they used Mongolian tactics, and just harassed the orcs for days while they traveled to helms deep.
When they made their last stand or rather charged out of the keep, just like the lights bit, it's cool but it doesn't make sense for the horses to push past that many orcs. I mean they would really have to jumping off the ledge to make way for them.
You're right but I think the point they were trying to make is that people who avoid often do so under the guise of some valid justification. Like yes it was necessary to retreat but he had a dual purpose in doing so. A selfless one and a selfish one, which made him insecure and defensive. This double-mindedness was overcome by theoden when he re-grounded himself in his identity and values. He was then able to pursue justice with a unified purpose of mind.
Heh in fact in the book it's Theoden who wants to ride out to death and ruin and revenge and it's Gandalf and co who convince him to go to Helm's Deep instead.
What is even better about Theoden's acceptance of his responsibility and the Death cry is that the concept of mortality is Eru Iluvatar's (God in the world of Lord of the Rings) gift to mankind. Elves don't age and even when they're killed they go to the Halls of Mandos in the Undying Lands (across the Western Seas) where they will eventually be resurrected. Only Eru knows where mankind goes after death, but they explicitly do not get resurrected*. This is a gift because they don't have to see the world change around them like the elves do and they appreciate the gift of life and can make the most if it. The fear of death and wish for immortality is what Sauron manipulated to get the men of Numenor to attempt to invade the Undying Lands, which leads to Numenor's destruction. Theoden and his riders don't make this same mistake, they embrace their mortality for what it is and make that all the clearer by shouting Death.
This also ties in with Theoden's feeling of inferiority. He feels as if his forefathers were so much greater than him, with champions like Helm Hammerhand. His manipulation by Grima & Saruman only contributes to this and he frankly also feels like he's inferior to Aragorn who has so many friends and allies (the elves, Gandalf) whereas Theoden feels like he doesn't have any. Yet when he lies dying having accepted mortality for what it is and having come to the aid of Gondor he knows he has lived up to his forefathers.
For anyone more interested in this, I recommend you read the books but also to listen to Tolkien's reading of the Ride of the Rohirrim as it is portrayed in the book. He makes it very clear that there is a real possibility of Theoden fleeing at the last moment before the charge, but when he does charge forward he is like nothing anyone in that age has ever seen before.
RIP Bernard Hill.
*The man Beren is resurrected in the Silmarillion but even then he is mortal and when he eventually dies again he is dead for good. This is the only exception to the rule as far as I know.
This is the most fire intros you have done. Also, one of the best intro edits for Theoden that I have seen. 👏👏👏
Thanks, our editor did an amazing job on the intro, and the whole episode!
@CinemaTherapyShow well they did a fantastic job. Love your channel! You guys have given me better insight on being a better father and husband.
@25:00 It's worth knowing that in Tolkien's legendarium, death was the greatest gift ever given to Men, and Sauron (it might have been his master Morgoth, can't recall) who corrupted the gift by making Men afraid of death.
The brilliance of Theoden's speech in the film during the charge of the Rohirrim (which is incidentally borrowed from Eomer in the books, who notably says it *after* he finds Theoden dead and Eowyn near dead on the battlefield and thinks the battle is lost) is that it's the moment he well and truly overcomes the sense of despair he's had since before the Battle of Helm's Deep. He doesn't know if any of the Gondorians in Minas Tirith are still alive, but chooses to hope Rohan arrived in time to aid them, and by chanting "death", they overcome their fear of it and turn that fear on the Orcs, who thought a few arrow volleys would be enough to break the Rohirrim's will like it did with Faramir's men when they tried to retake Osgiliath.
One of my favorite little tidbits about the Ride of the Rohirim is that I belive this is one of if not the first time the Orcs show fear of an enemy. And from a military standpoint, that fear broke their lines and made them unable to stand against the Rohirim. Theodin took his old fear and just gave it to the orcs lol
One of the few scenes I shall forever get so many goosebumbs from, that travel straight to my eyes. Even when I'm 90, I want to rewatch these movies yearly and marvel at all the beauty: Images, music, healthy role models, love, friendship, loyalty, and incredible bravery in the face of evil.
Facts! True masterpieces. And the music is Star Wars level good. Or nearly. I should rewatch the trilogy.
These movies are amazing even after 20 years, and they’ll be amazing 20 years from now.
Over many years (I first read the Lord of the Rings as a young teenager in 1965) the arc of the story of Théoden, the King of Rohan, has come to have great meaning. Having been called back from personal despair by Gandalf, Théoden over the course of a few days led his folk beyond hope through indomitable courage. And, of course, Bernard Hill inhabited the role of Théoden perfectly. It may be due, in a large part, to Bernard Hill’s particular excellence in the creation of onscreen Théoden, that the Théoden of the films is so very like the Théoden of the book. Though the details of Théoden’s particular journey from Edoras to Helms Deep were somewhat altered for the film, the rapid arc of Théoden’s recovery from his ineffectual poisoned state to his late life burst of effective heroic leadership was masterfully translated from Professor Tolkien’s book to Sir Peter Jackson’s movies.
Alan, I really appreciate how you aren't afraid to show your emotions. As another male who is maybe more emotional than other men, it is empowering to see another Man who is confident in his feelings. That to me is true masculinity. Thank you for being a guiding light for me.
The best characters in any fiction are ones that have flaws that feel real, flaws we can relate to, that make us feel connected to that character. It makes watching them climb up, above their flaws, maybe not getting sucess but having the satisfaction that they sure as heck tried their best... Just feels so inspiring and just fills your heart with this desire to put all you've got into your life too. Man LotR is the GOAT of all trilogies. 10/10 would watch again... And again, and again, and again.
This may be one of the best episodes of Cinema Therapy yet. That sneeze edit was hysterical.
24:35 Basically "With great power comes great responsibility." Amazing how the messages in things like comic books can translate so well into real life.
Which is because that line isn't actually from comics, but rather, it's simply a rephrase of the concluding moral of the Parable of the Talents: "To whom much is given, much is required." And if you don't understand how influential that Parable is, the only reason we have the word "talent" in English meaning "an activity one is skilled at" is entirely due to that Parable, as prior to it being recorded and taught a "talent" was a term of silver coinage. It's literally like calling people's skills "dollars".
So many CHILLS I absolutely adore all his scenes. Rest in peace Bernard Hill
26:38 Dear editor, I love you
I love you more! POW!
Is there a term for when you're so overwhelmed with emotion in awe-inspiring situations that you are brought to tears? The ride of the Rohirrim, for example, makes me tear up and choke up. My wife is always confused by how I cry at triumphant moments.
As a woman I also cry in such moments. Thanks for sharing, because I felt I was too awkward. Nice to meet someone who can react like me.
24:10 you cant help but holler with the army. When i saw this when it first came out at the midnight showing, everyone in the theatre was yelling with the army, we were so pumped. Pretty sure we were heard 3 blocks away 😆