UPDATE: 6/10/22: Hey, everyone, thanks for getting this video to 20,000 views! Glad people are still watching this video 5 and a half years later, haha. If anyone's finding my channel for the first time through this video, just know that I'm still doing character/story analysis stuff like this for lots of my favorite TV shows/movies/video games (some of which is Pokemon-related), so if you wanna check out some of my more recent videos, that'd be greatly appreciated! Either way, hopefully you're all having a lovely June so far (Happy Pride Month!), and DRINK WATER.
@@TheLuckOfTheClaws It was an improvement gameplay wise, but it ruined Lillie and Lusamine’s story in favor for Necrozma. The ultra games should’ve been dlc for S/M.
I feel like it's only because she's a conventionally attractive woman. Sadly, there is an entire belief that women are inherently less evil (not true and also sexist) and people will make excuses for conventionally attractive villains regardless of gender (not okay).
i think that the key may be in what Plumeria says to Lillie: she is like her mother, but she uses those traits for good. being driven, determined, ambitious with no restraint at all can make you evil, that's what happens to Lusamine. on the other hand, all those things can be good qualities if filtered with strong ethics, and that's Lillie. Nihilego takes away the humanity, nothing more. so i think that Lusamine needs rehab, but can be forgiven lol
That does seem weird, if not a big coincidence. I'm sure someone's made a theory video claiming that the Totem Mimikyu from the Ghost Trial is the ghost of Lusamine's Pikachu who's actually dead or something, haha.
well, whatever the case, I'm interested in Lusamine's Pokemon in particular, why Picachu, Starmie, Slowpoke, and Pykumuku in particular, along with the team she uses, which are also intersting, because they resemble her personality Clefable: Previous loving personality Beware: Her strength as an individual Milotic/Lilligant: Beauty Mismagius: Her dark personality after the experience with Ultra Beasts.
Very well done video. I had assumed the side effects of Nihilego's toxins lead to the victim suffering some form of early dementia or some other form of rapid brain degeneration. It's scary to find that the motives of an antagonist are the result of their brain being broken as well as seeing them deteriorating over the course of a story. Lusamine's brain rotted to the point where her notion of love became an instinct of protect Nihilego, which would probably be the end result as Nihilego's nature is that of a parasite. Her pokemon are probably also effected as well due to the totem boost, or just Ultra Space in general. This sudden burst of power is also causing her pokemon to lose their minds as well.
To be fair, whether Lusamine's actions are forgiven or excused, something tells me she's not gonna live it down that easily. On a side not, I don't consider the UBs as Pokémon because of one crucial detail. Never, not once, has there been an instance where a Pokémon has literally merged with a human being. If Nihilego can do that, then just imagine what the other UBs could do. And there are probably more of them waiting to be revealed.
You forgot to mention that Gladion also mentioned that Lusamine dressed him, similar to what she did with Lillie. He even remarks that he was like an "ornament" and talks about how similar he and Null really are. (he says this in Aether labs in front of lab A) Also for Lillie forgiving her mother... No, there's no excuse for Lusamine's actions at all. She probably gaslit the shit out of her children, to elicit that kind of reaction from Lillie. Only real explanation for Lillie being able to forgive her so easily, right? And I wouldn't put that kind of mental manipulation past Lusamine. And I'm sure she would've been even more of an oppressive bitch after Gladion ran away, so there's that. Hmm, and we're not really sure if Gladion was able to forgive her, all we know is that he is now Aether's president in her stead. So, maybe? Or maybe he just wants to clean up her mistakes and make Aether great again. Heh. But yeah, I get salty when people act like Lusamine was just Nihilego's puppet. That she had absolutely no control, yadda yadda.
Lusamine wasn't Nihilego's puppet, but she was under her influence. Nihilego's neurotoxin removes inhibition. It was as if Lusamine was perpetually drunk for the last few years. According to Lillie, Lusamine was incredibly kind and caring before that. So what changed? She lost her husband, and was poisoned by Nihelego's neurotoxin. I would think that would allow for at least some leeway.
What I believe is that after the incident, Lusamine's thoughts started to turn dark, but it wasn't until Nihilego's neurotoxin came into the equation that those dark thoughts became action.
It still just seemed a little too easy for Lillie and even Gladion to be like, "Oh, you know, I understand why she did it, I mean, it was wrong, but she's still my mother!". Again, I don't know if I should dictate whether or not they SHOULD forgive Lusamine, because, if this were real, I'd just be someone on the outside observing it, but I just wouldn't be so quick to be like, "It's OK because she's still my mom" -- screw that. She was controlling, manipulative, and actively treated her children like shit, and if my interpretation of the data about Nihilego is sound (namely the part about it not manipulating the host's actions, but simply amplifying pre-existing traits and desires), she was already like that (albeit to a lesser extent) BEFORE everything went to shit, whether she did genuinely care for her kids once upon a time or not. I would think any sort of forgiveness or redemption from all of that would take much more time and much more effort than Lusamine simply acknowledging Lillie as beautiful for a single when she was on the verge of death after trying to KILL LILLIE IN ULTRA SPACE.
It's like your mom kills your best friend but, "Oh, it's alright, she's my mother." Or if she tries to kill you. No, if my parents did that, I would disown them.
Personally I don't forgive Lusamine and I feel like her "redemption" was super forced. If Lusamine showed genuine remorse and wasn't so horribly abusive in the first place, then yes I would forgive her.
I think the feelings that were amplified by the neurotoxin weren't abusive feelings that existed before all of that. I think what was amplified were the immediate anger, shock, and grief she felt when her husband vanished. The ultra beast's poison probably made her lose her self-control, causing her to remain in that state of rage for gosh knows how long, and also taking it out on her kids. She was basically using outrage over the span of all of those years. (See what I did there?)
i think the anime shows Lusamine's actions & Nihilego's neurotoxins effect the best Lusamine always had a intrest in Ultra Beasts (even if they took away her husband away (according to her)) but for her, family & her children where far more important but the neurotoxins, turned that around the Ultra Beasts became far more important (in the final battle, even willingly becoming food for one) and treat her own children horribly ...... i just can't call Lusamine evil because of that
I think I have my own similar experience. my parents were divorced and both abusive. my mom has BPD which does influence the ways in which she acts abusively, but isn't what causes the abuse. lkkewise my dad is autistic and has depression. same deal there. my dad, after finding out I struggle with suicidal feelings and the medications i first tried weren't the right ones, suicide baited me. he has contempt for suicide and anyone who thinks of it. he found out and told me to just do it already and I'd fail anyway like everything else. he yelled in my face about how he'd like to see me try instead of just bitching. it was when i decided to cut him out of my life for good. our therapist said he had good intentions and I should forgive him and listen to his concern for me because he's my father but doesn't know how. he tried to frame it as autism. spoiler alert, I have all the same disorders of my parents and then some. it isn't autism that leads to suicide baiting. my mom was more... she let my step dad abuse me. berate me. hit me. break my collar bone.she threatened to leave, but never did. and BPD does make leaving hard. she also would yell and threaten and be hypocritical. she sabotaged any attempt at independence. no drivers license, no job, frequently forced to drop out of school. she'd find the slightest complaint and blow up over it in ways that sabotaged me. if I was doing online classes, shed shut down my access to internet over literally anything. if I had pushball classes she'd drive me. until she gets offended and then forces me onto the highway in the rain 20 minutes before class starts with no money or alternate transportation. she did that shit. and I never really thought I'd forgive her either. and I still really haven't. but I still talk to her occasionally. she's helped me. and she's gotten some karmic justice (she had a stroke not too long ago and broke her knee...again. well different knee. both knees. but like 10 years apart) I know bpd isn't easy. but it also doesn't force you to act abusively. and that's kinda where I am with lusamine. she could either be my mom or my dad. And id say closer to my dad than my mom. he's very affectionate to kids. until they differ from him or his ideals. in which case he sees them as trash and lesser than. he promoted his literal red headed step children over me. counting them as family and me as well an unwanted "bitch", because I'm queer, mentally ill, leftist, and basically every thing else he hates. but the girls who don't get have a conflicting personality with him, he adores. and its a trend present in all 5 of his marriages. complained about in all wives and step kids.plus my aunt. and if lusamine behind the scenes *is* like him, I wouldn't talk to her. I'm creeped out any time my dad texts me. he shouldn't have my number. but he does stalk. and I'm very creeped out. there's honestly a lot if nuance depending on how badly, often, or how they hurt you in factoring in whether or not to dump a toxic parent or to what degree .
Bismuth the Anarchist Thanks for sharing that. It brought me some pretty good insight on the subject. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I'm glad you stayed strong long enough to tell us that story.
Bismuth the Anarchist, I cannot even begin to understand what you went through. You are a living, breathing, example for everyone on this earth: no matter how bad it gets, you gotta keep living. Keep living, okay?
I was hoping someone would bring all of this together in a video! Only fitting that it should be you. Well done, man. Also, I just have to say that this is one of my favorite stories in any Pokemon game. It's deeper and darker than we've seen before and plays almost like a sci-fi/fantasy novel (but yeah, battling the Lusamine-Nihilego fusion in addition to her 5 Pokemon would've been epic).
Leah Santone Right? I have no issue with the actual Pokemon battle we got with all of her 'Mons having stat boosts, I just wish we would've had a fight with Merged Lusamine herself after that.
I'm so glad you brought this up! This is the most interesting storyline we've gotten in a pokemon game. I hope there can be a sequel of some sort to clear things like this up...
although Nihilegos toxins bought out what was oriningally in lusamine, i dont think she had those traits to begin with, we can see she was a caring mother before her first encounter with Nihligego so i recon that it was combined trama from the toxins and watching her husband get yeeted that brought on the traits of abuse, and the toxins only helped to grow them, causing her to lash out at her children, i think if shes truly sorry and is ready to try re-connect with her children she should be given a 2nd chance, although if she continues as before its totally understandable if lille and gladion left
Hell we already know that the amplification is already really extreme anyway, since even if Lusamine only had 1% (which is extremely insignificant) of those darkness since its not like Lusamine is a supreme Saintess that has no sins whatsoever, the Toxin will still make that 1% become 100%, so Majority of her actions can be blamed to the Toxin since that amplification is extremely potent and ridiculously powerful for any normal human to even resist.
The neurotoxins can be read for a substance abuse metaphor. I like that Lillie is trying to patch things up with Lusamine, but it was important to show that Gladion cut all ties with Lusamine and that the story framed it as a valid choice.
Behold! A character who finally beat N as the most tragic character in Pokemon! Quick thing tho: I think we didn't battle her herself because we'd essentially be using our Pokemon to harm a human, and a human who is none other and Lillie's mother. If we battled her, then we'd be betraying Lillie - heck, she went to a different dimension to save her mother, and if we knocked her mum unconscious in the process, then she'd probably never forgive us. And I think they could be forgiven. I think her abusive traits might not have even been abusive - just simply slightly strict, maybe when one of her children misbehaved. When she got poisoned, those traits were amplified to such a length that she became abusive.
Person Person And yet, in the heat of the moment, Lillie had no problem calling to Nebby for help and Nebby pretty much did just that. And besides, in that state, merged with a monster and clearly out for blood, Lusamine was dangerous and out of control. We clearly would've only incapacitated her, which, again, is pretty much what Nebby did in the end. I know using Pokemon to hurt humans isn't really a thing in the games, but this was clearly a special case.
Super Nerd Daniel hmm, I'm not quite sure. I think that maybe Lillie called on Solgaleo to simply protect her and the player, rather than attack Lusamine. Also, none of the people in Ultra Space at the time knew that incapacitating her was the solution. If I was the player or Lillie actually there, I'd be careful to not attack Lusamine in case I accidentally murdered her. I guess it's just my personal interpretation though.
Probably her stability of her mental health broke right after Mohn disappeared, which made her into a psychopathic person, and Nihilego's toxins just enhanced it even more and brought it to the front. All she wanted to do was protect her children, which is why she repeatedly says that children ought to listen to their grown ups. She didn't want another incident where she would lose her children, but obviously, after Lillie and Gladion run away, because she was so controlling, she doesn't give a fuck and would hurt her two children even more. I think Lillie forgiving her mother is fine because she knows how she spiralled downwards and probably is willing to work with her, fixing their relationship.
Same my papa tried to kidnap me at age seven, then tried to kill me at age ten. Now he pops up out of no where and wants to have a relationship... I'm twenty-six now.
Honestly, I don't even think the remorse was genuine- just a last-minute attempt to manipulate Lillie even further. And I wouldn't be surprised if her "beloved" husband was actually the first victim of her controlling nature. But of course Lillie (sorta) forgives her- she's her mother, and it's not abnormal for people to still feel love for their abusers even after learning what terrible people they are.
That's actually something I wanted to bring up, too, but I wasn't sure how to get it in there -- something about losing Mohn and her children running away may have caused Lusamine to want to want to preserve the things that she "loved" forever, hence the cryogenic suspension of all of those Pokemon in her super-secret lab. It's sad, and also really disturbing.
For all she knew her husband is dead. That feeling of anger and upset was amplified. What might have been anger issues turned into abuse and abandonment. I think she would be an ok mother after the toxins wear out or they never happened in the first place. I personally would forgive her. But then again I'm one of the people that cried at the part where she basically died (but they had to say "nope she's alive" to make sure it's kid friendly)
Moggy Brady Yeah, when Hapu implied that she wasn't dead, I just breathed a sigh of relief and thought "Oh, good, we didn't kill her." But I agree with your point.
Given that my own mother acted similarly to pre-psycopath Lusamine, I can understand it. Maybe that's why I'm not sympathetic, she actually thought she was doing the right thing.. even when everyone abandoned her. and why are you pronouncing the 'e' at the end of her name? It's not a unique name and the e is silent. sorry, just triggered about that
It is never actually stated in game that Lusamine came in contact with UB-01 Symbiont BEFORE the events of Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon. Even though Lusamine was evil, Lillie remembers her as a nice and loving mother and, judging by the ending of the games, she has a chance of being that caring person. Besides, the woman lost her husband in an alternative dimension. Also, the Aether Foundation, even though they had alternative motives, they had a good goal: the helping of Pokémon. As for the QOTD, she deserves forgiveness.
Forgiveness, yes. Excused for her action, NEVER. She did this ALL on her own free will. Nihilego's neurotoxins didn't change her, it just amplified what was already there.
Mohn and lusamine meet again Lusamine: mohn? Is that you? Mohn: hey you seem familiar, Lusamine’s eyes light up she thinks he remembers her Mohn: yeah you’re that crazy lady from the papers! I’m gonna let you go now, you’ve probably got a date with a tentacrool! Ha! Mohn turns to lily and gladion Mohn: you two should stay back, ya might catch her crazy! Haha The children turn towards their mother Lusamine: why won’t the world let me move on? Why can’t the world give me a break? Why can’t I wake up one morning and have no sour glances from my boy? Or looks of terror from my girl? I already feel heavy with my sins? So why does the world keep piling on weights? She starts crying, her tears red with blood
Oh, cool! How did you like the game when you first played it? Do you think it was a good introduction to the Pokemon franchise? I mean, to be fair, the first whole island of Alola (and arguably a lot of the second) is pretty tutorial-heavy and railroad-y, though I'd imagine that was designed that way for new players who just happened to start on Sun/Moon, haha.
"Missed battle opportunity" You... you DO realize that the reason that Lusamine's Pokémon had those totem Pokémon auras because they too were messed up by Nihilego's neurotoxin as well, right? There's also the fact that the toxin's effect on people boosts their skills an removes inhibition. So with Lusamine's being the self-obsessed and infected sociopath she is; her first thought was to battle the Player character because she has her "precious beast" to help her and her team out. A battle between her and a Pokémon happened as well though. She did try to kill Lillie after the mother beast battle; but Nebby then saved the day.
All people have control desires of some sort, and specially OCD's like Lusamine, let's just say for a moment she just liked all to be clean and beautiful in her house, now amplify that by a million and you get this other Lusamine. She is just a human, could you control yourself, your own desires when you're under that potent neurotoxin?, no!, of course not!, she needs attention, care and love, she will remorse forever for what she had done, she tried to compensate letting his children to be and do whatever they wanted now. She is alone. She'll be tortured by her own mind. She is human. She must be forgiven.
Aaaannndddd I just happen to find this video after I've scheduled an upload of a similar thing. You'll probably heavily agree with my ideas because you and I ended up seeing the same exact connections. But I tell the story from Mohn's perspective instead! I hope you'll enjoy if you end up watching it; you're gonna think it's the next natural step from what you were talking about in your video. I guess great minds think alike?
Truthfully, I haven't watched the anime in years, haha. If I did do that, I'd have to put time aside to watch a lot of the anime (particularly the X/Y anime) so I would have material to work with, although to be honest, I mainly just focus on the video games anyway.
Is this negative toxic behavior why they made Lusamine so fluffy happy and silly even in ultra beast form in the anime? -because we own the dvd season that has her transform so im just curious about the differences-
@@SteveCrafts2k It's not toned down and people can absolutely still relate. Anime Lusamine is honestly way more complex and nuanced, they go much more in depth, fleshing out her character a lot more and making the whole situation so much more "real" and impactful.
Or, free her from the neurotoxins so she can be fully conscious when she's brought to trial and her reputation as a motherly, angelic figure is spectacularly DESTROYED. I'd love to see that.
I don't really think my pronunciation of Nihilego is too far off, considering the words it likely derives from -- particularly "nihil", which is Latin for "indefinite nothing" and is used in the word "nihilism" (which is pronounced "Ny-il-ism").
I'll just say it this way:Who you are is not what you did, I personally think Lusamine can be forgiven... It's Nihelgo's fault that Lusamine brought out her dark traits in the first place
UPDATE: 6/10/22: Hey, everyone, thanks for getting this video to 20,000 views! Glad people are still watching this video 5 and a half years later, haha. If anyone's finding my channel for the first time through this video, just know that I'm still doing character/story analysis stuff like this for lots of my favorite TV shows/movies/video games (some of which is Pokemon-related), so if you wanna check out some of my more recent videos, that'd be greatly appreciated!
Either way, hopefully you're all having a lovely June so far (Happy Pride Month!), and DRINK WATER.
I think Lusamine should not automatically get a complete free pass. Yes, she could be FORGIVEN, eventually, but not EXCUSED from her actions.
@Marav Reviews I really liked ultra sun/moon actually…
@@TheLuckOfTheClaws It was an improvement gameplay wise, but it ruined Lillie and Lusamine’s story in favor for Necrozma. The ultra games should’ve been dlc for S/M.
I feel like it's only because she's a conventionally attractive woman. Sadly, there is an entire belief that women are inherently less evil (not true and also sexist) and people will make excuses for conventionally attractive villains regardless of gender (not okay).
"Lusamine and The Ultra Beasts", that sounds like a pretty good movie!
Parcus I would watch it 😂
How about the "Sweet Beasts" instead? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
i think that the key may be in what Plumeria says to Lillie: she is like her mother, but she uses those traits for good. being driven, determined, ambitious with no restraint at all can make you evil, that's what happens to Lusamine. on the other hand, all those things can be good qualities if filtered with strong ethics, and that's Lillie. Nihilego takes away the humanity, nothing more. so i think that Lusamine needs rehab, but can be forgiven lol
I know this is completely random, but... doesn't it seem a little weird how Lusamine has a Picachu frozen in time in the same generation of Mimiku?
That does seem weird, if not a big coincidence. I'm sure someone's made a theory video claiming that the Totem Mimikyu from the Ghost Trial is the ghost of Lusamine's Pikachu who's actually dead or something, haha.
well, whatever the case, I'm interested in Lusamine's Pokemon in particular, why Picachu, Starmie, Slowpoke, and Pykumuku in particular, along with the team she uses, which are also intersting, because they resemble her personality
Clefable: Previous loving personality
Beware: Her strength as an individual
Milotic/Lilligant: Beauty
Mismagius: Her dark personality after the experience with Ultra Beasts.
Very well done video. I had assumed the side effects of Nihilego's toxins lead to the victim suffering some form of early dementia or some other form of rapid brain degeneration. It's scary to find that the motives of an antagonist are the result of their brain being broken as well as seeing them deteriorating over the course of a story. Lusamine's brain rotted to the point where her notion of love became an instinct of protect Nihilego, which would probably be the end result as Nihilego's nature is that of a parasite. Her pokemon are probably also effected as well due to the totem boost, or just Ultra Space in general. This sudden burst of power is also causing her pokemon to lose their minds as well.
To be fair, whether Lusamine's actions are forgiven or excused, something tells me she's not gonna live it down that easily. On a side not, I don't consider the UBs as Pokémon because of one crucial detail. Never, not once, has there been an instance where a Pokémon has literally merged with a human being. If Nihilego can do that, then just imagine what the other UBs could do. And there are probably more of them waiting to be revealed.
You forgot to mention that Gladion also mentioned that Lusamine dressed him, similar to what she did with Lillie. He even remarks that he was like an "ornament" and talks about how similar he and Null really are. (he says this in Aether labs in front of lab A) Also for Lillie forgiving her mother... No, there's no excuse for Lusamine's actions at all. She probably gaslit the shit out of her children, to elicit that kind of reaction from Lillie. Only real explanation for Lillie being able to forgive her so easily, right? And I wouldn't put that kind of mental manipulation past Lusamine. And I'm sure she would've been even more of an oppressive bitch after Gladion ran away, so there's that. Hmm, and we're not really sure if Gladion was able to forgive her, all we know is that he is now Aether's president in her stead. So, maybe? Or maybe he just wants to clean up her mistakes and make Aether great again. Heh. But yeah, I get salty when people act like Lusamine was just Nihilego's puppet. That she had absolutely no control, yadda yadda.
Lusamine wasn't Nihilego's puppet, but she was under her influence. Nihilego's neurotoxin removes inhibition. It was as if Lusamine was perpetually drunk for the last few years. According to Lillie, Lusamine was incredibly kind and caring before that. So what changed? She lost her husband, and was poisoned by Nihelego's neurotoxin. I would think that would allow for at least some leeway.
What I believe is that after the incident, Lusamine's thoughts started to turn dark, but it wasn't until Nihilego's neurotoxin came into the equation that those dark thoughts became action.
I actually like Guzma. I really wish there was more backstory to his character than just the snippets in the game.
Right? Guzma and Team Skull in general are pretty great. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but they're such likable goofs.
Super Nerd Daniel Yet with quite the dark backstory when you really think about it
It was sweet to have another gang sort of like Team Rocket for once, and even end up just being subservient to someone else.
I'm not sure if I could forgive Lusamine's actions since Nihelego is able to make desires stronger, she might have done it eventually, later on.
It still just seemed a little too easy for Lillie and even Gladion to be like, "Oh, you know, I understand why she did it, I mean, it was wrong, but she's still my mother!". Again, I don't know if I should dictate whether or not they SHOULD forgive Lusamine, because, if this were real, I'd just be someone on the outside observing it, but I just wouldn't be so quick to be like, "It's OK because she's still my mom" -- screw that. She was controlling, manipulative, and actively treated her children like shit, and if my interpretation of the data about Nihilego is sound (namely the part about it not manipulating the host's actions, but simply amplifying pre-existing traits and desires), she was already like that (albeit to a lesser extent) BEFORE everything went to shit, whether she did genuinely care for her kids once upon a time or not. I would think any sort of forgiveness or redemption from all of that would take much more time and much more effort than Lusamine simply acknowledging Lillie as beautiful for a single when she was on the verge of death after trying to KILL LILLIE IN ULTRA SPACE.
It's like your mom kills your best friend but, "Oh, it's alright, she's my mother." Or if she tries to kill you. No, if my parents did that, I would disown them.
Personally I don't forgive Lusamine and I feel like her "redemption" was super forced. If Lusamine showed genuine remorse and wasn't so horribly abusive in the first place, then yes I would forgive her.
I think the feelings that were amplified by the neurotoxin weren't abusive feelings that existed before all of that. I think what was amplified were the immediate anger, shock, and grief she felt when her husband vanished. The ultra beast's poison probably made her lose her self-control, causing her to remain in that state of rage for gosh knows how long, and also taking it out on her kids. She was basically using outrage over the span of all of those years. (See what I did there?)
i think the anime shows Lusamine's actions & Nihilego's neurotoxins effect the best
Lusamine always had a intrest in Ultra Beasts (even if they took away her husband away (according to her))
but for her, family & her children where far more important
but the neurotoxins, turned that around
the Ultra Beasts became far more important (in the final battle, even willingly becoming food for one)
and treat her own children horribly
......
i just can't call Lusamine evil because of that
To be honest, after you beat Motherbeast Lusamine, that cutscene made me tear up, HELL, it was the ONLY time a Pokemon cutscene made me tear up
I think I have my own similar experience. my parents were divorced and both abusive. my mom has BPD which does influence the ways in which she acts abusively, but isn't what causes the abuse.
lkkewise my dad is autistic and has depression. same deal there.
my dad, after finding out I struggle with suicidal feelings and the medications i first tried weren't the right ones, suicide baited me. he has contempt for suicide and anyone who thinks of it. he found out and told me to just do it already and I'd fail anyway like everything else. he yelled in my face about how he'd like to see me try instead of just bitching.
it was when i decided to cut him out of my life for good. our therapist said he had good intentions and I should forgive him and listen to his concern for me because he's my father but doesn't know how. he tried to frame it as autism. spoiler alert, I have all the same disorders of my parents and then some. it isn't autism that leads to suicide baiting.
my mom was more... she let my step dad abuse me. berate me. hit me. break my collar bone.she threatened to leave, but never did. and BPD does make leaving hard.
she also would yell and threaten and be hypocritical. she sabotaged any attempt at independence. no drivers license, no job, frequently forced to drop out of school.
she'd find the slightest complaint and blow up over it in ways that sabotaged me.
if I was doing online classes, shed shut down my access to internet over literally anything. if I had pushball classes she'd drive me. until she gets offended and then forces me onto the highway in the rain 20 minutes before class starts with no money or alternate transportation.
she did that shit. and I never really thought I'd forgive her either. and I still really haven't. but I still talk to her occasionally. she's helped me. and she's gotten some karmic justice (she had a stroke not too long ago and broke her knee...again. well different knee. both knees. but like 10 years apart)
I know bpd isn't easy. but it also doesn't force you to act abusively. and that's kinda where I am with lusamine.
she could either be my mom or my dad. And id say closer to my dad than my mom.
he's very affectionate to kids. until they differ from him or his ideals. in which case he sees them as trash and lesser than. he promoted his literal red headed step children over me. counting them as family and me as well an unwanted "bitch", because I'm queer, mentally ill, leftist, and basically every thing else he hates.
but the girls who don't get have a conflicting personality with him, he adores. and its a trend present in all 5 of his marriages. complained about in all wives and step kids.plus my aunt.
and if lusamine behind the scenes *is* like him, I wouldn't talk to her. I'm creeped out any time my dad texts me. he shouldn't have my number. but he does stalk. and I'm very creeped out.
there's honestly a lot if nuance depending on how badly, often, or how they hurt you in factoring in whether or not to dump a toxic parent or to what degree .
Bismuth the Anarchist Thanks for sharing that. It brought me some pretty good insight on the subject. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I'm glad you stayed strong long enough to tell us that story.
Bismuth the Anarchist, I cannot even begin to understand what you went through. You are a living, breathing, example for everyone on this earth: no matter how bad it gets, you gotta keep living. Keep living, okay?
I was hoping someone would bring all of this together in a video! Only fitting that it should be you. Well done, man. Also, I just have to say that this is one of my favorite stories in any Pokemon game. It's deeper and darker than we've seen before and plays almost like a sci-fi/fantasy novel (but yeah, battling the Lusamine-Nihilego fusion in addition to her 5 Pokemon would've been epic).
Leah Santone Right? I have no issue with the actual Pokemon battle we got with all of her 'Mons having stat boosts, I just wish we would've had a fight with Merged Lusamine herself after that.
I'm so glad you brought this up! This is the most interesting storyline we've gotten in a pokemon game. I hope there can be a sequel of some sort to clear things like this up...
although Nihilegos toxins bought out what was oriningally in lusamine, i dont think she had those traits to begin with, we can see she was a caring mother before her first encounter with Nihligego so i recon that it was combined trama from the toxins and watching her husband get yeeted that brought on the traits of abuse, and the toxins only helped to grow them, causing her to lash out at her children, i think if shes truly sorry and is ready to try re-connect with her children she should be given a 2nd chance, although if she continues as before its totally understandable if lille and gladion left
Hell we already know that the amplification is already really extreme anyway, since even if Lusamine only had 1% (which is extremely insignificant) of those darkness since its not like Lusamine is a supreme Saintess that has no sins whatsoever, the Toxin will still make that 1% become 100%, so Majority of her actions can be blamed to the Toxin since that amplification is extremely potent and ridiculously powerful for any normal human to even resist.
The neurotoxins can be read for a substance abuse metaphor.
I like that Lillie is trying to patch things up with Lusamine, but it was important to show that Gladion cut all ties with Lusamine and that the story framed it as a valid choice.
Behold! A character who finally beat N as the most tragic character in Pokemon!
Quick thing tho: I think we didn't battle her herself because we'd essentially be using our Pokemon to harm a human, and a human who is none other and Lillie's mother. If we battled her, then we'd be betraying Lillie - heck, she went to a different dimension to save her mother, and if we knocked her mum unconscious in the process, then she'd probably never forgive us.
And I think they could be forgiven. I think her abusive traits might not have even been abusive - just simply slightly strict, maybe when one of her children misbehaved. When she got poisoned, those traits were amplified to such a length that she became abusive.
Person Person And yet, in the heat of the moment, Lillie had no problem calling to Nebby for help and Nebby pretty much did just that. And besides, in that state, merged with a monster and clearly out for blood, Lusamine was dangerous and out of control. We clearly would've only incapacitated her, which, again, is pretty much what Nebby did in the end. I know using Pokemon to hurt humans isn't really a thing in the games, but this was clearly a special case.
Super Nerd Daniel hmm, I'm not quite sure. I think that maybe Lillie called on Solgaleo to simply protect her and the player, rather than attack Lusamine. Also, none of the people in Ultra Space at the time knew that incapacitating her was the solution. If I was the player or Lillie actually there, I'd be careful to not attack Lusamine in case I accidentally murdered her. I guess it's just my personal interpretation though.
Probably her stability of her mental health broke right after Mohn disappeared, which made her into a psychopathic person, and Nihilego's toxins just enhanced it even more and brought it to the front.
All she wanted to do was protect her children, which is why she repeatedly says that children ought to listen to their grown ups. She didn't want another incident where she would lose her children, but obviously, after Lillie and Gladion run away, because she was so controlling, she doesn't give a fuck and would hurt her two children even more. I think Lillie forgiving her mother is fine because she knows how she spiralled downwards and probably is willing to work with her, fixing their relationship.
Same my papa tried to kidnap me at age seven, then tried to kill me at age ten. Now he pops up out of no where and wants to have a relationship... I'm twenty-six now.
Honestly, I don't even think the remorse was genuine- just a last-minute attempt to manipulate Lillie even further. And I wouldn't be surprised if her "beloved" husband was actually the first victim of her controlling nature.
But of course Lillie (sorta) forgives her- she's her mother, and it's not abnormal for people to still feel love for their abusers even after learning what terrible people they are.
Master N how does it feel colress made it to gen7?
Master N and you didn't :3
Lusamine keeps a collection of frozen Pokemon trapped in ice for all eternity she doesn't deserve forgiveness.
That's actually something I wanted to bring up, too, but I wasn't sure how to get it in there -- something about losing Mohn and her children running away may have caused Lusamine to want to want to preserve the things that she "loved" forever, hence the cryogenic suspension of all of those Pokemon in her super-secret lab. It's sad, and also really disturbing.
Wicke says she'll take care of them. AND NOT THAW THEM!
For all she knew her husband is dead. That feeling of anger and upset was amplified. What might have been anger issues turned into abuse and abandonment. I think she would be an ok mother after the toxins wear out or they never happened in the first place. I personally would forgive her. But then again I'm one of the people that cried at the part where she basically died (but they had to say "nope she's alive" to make sure it's kid friendly)
Moggy Brady Yeah, when Hapu implied that she wasn't dead, I just breathed a sigh of relief and thought "Oh, good, we didn't kill her." But I agree with your point.
Given that my own mother acted similarly to pre-psycopath Lusamine, I can understand it. Maybe that's why I'm not sympathetic, she actually thought she was doing the right thing.. even when everyone abandoned her.
and why are you pronouncing the 'e' at the end of her name? It's not a unique name and the e is silent.
sorry, just triggered about that
After the latest anime episodes, I think we can safely say the theory that Lillie’s dress mimicked the UB is correct.
"Get in the bag nebby!"
Nebby: Pew
It is never actually stated in game that Lusamine came in contact with UB-01 Symbiont BEFORE the events of Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon. Even though Lusamine was evil, Lillie remembers her as a nice and loving mother and, judging by the ending of the games, she has a chance of being that caring person. Besides, the woman lost her husband in an alternative dimension. Also, the Aether Foundation, even though they had alternative motives, they had a good goal: the helping of Pokémon. As for the QOTD, she deserves forgiveness.
Forgiveness, yes. Excused for her action, NEVER.
She did this ALL on her own free will. Nihilego's neurotoxins didn't change her, it just amplified what was already there.
Mohn and lusamine meet again
Lusamine: mohn? Is that you?
Mohn: hey you seem familiar,
Lusamine’s eyes light up she thinks he remembers her
Mohn: yeah you’re that crazy lady from the papers! I’m gonna let you go now, you’ve probably got a date with a tentacrool! Ha!
Mohn turns to lily and gladion
Mohn: you two should stay back, ya might catch her crazy! Haha
The children turn towards their mother
Lusamine: why won’t the world let me move on? Why can’t the world give me a break? Why can’t I wake up one morning and have no sour glances from my boy? Or looks of terror from my girl? I already feel heavy with my sins? So why does the world keep piling on weights?
She starts crying, her tears red with blood
So what you're saying is that lusamine was a messd up lady even before the incident about her husband.
Yep
makes sense that Anabel's name sounded familiar
Pokémon Sun and Moon was my first Pokémon game I played.
Oh, cool! How did you like the game when you first played it? Do you think it was a good introduction to the Pokemon franchise? I mean, to be fair, the first whole island of Alola (and arguably a lot of the second) is pretty tutorial-heavy and railroad-y, though I'd imagine that was designed that way for new players who just happened to start on Sun/Moon, haha.
It was interesting. Luckily I knew about Pokémon cards before. I got so excited when I saw a TV show of it.
I walked in circles a lot, confused.
Oh wow, that's cool! I honestly haven't played the Pokemon TCG since I was a kid, I do still have a bunch of cards, though, haha.
Same, I should probably sell them since I have no idea what to do with them XD
so what your telling me she was already a witch
Lusamine is obsessed with the ultra beasts. Dont scroll without liking and commenting "amen".
amen
"Missed battle opportunity" You... you DO realize that the reason that Lusamine's Pokémon had those totem Pokémon auras because they too were messed up by Nihilego's neurotoxin as well, right? There's also the fact that the toxin's effect on people boosts their skills an removes inhibition. So with Lusamine's being the self-obsessed and infected sociopath she is; her first thought was to battle the Player character because she has her "precious beast" to help her and her team out. A battle between her and a Pokémon happened as well though. She did try to kill Lillie after the mother beast battle; but Nebby then saved the day.
All people have control desires of some sort, and specially OCD's like Lusamine, let's just say for a moment she just liked all to be clean and beautiful in her house, now amplify that by a million and you get this other Lusamine.
She is just a human, could you control yourself, your own desires when you're under that potent neurotoxin?, no!, of course not!, she needs attention, care and love, she will remorse forever for what she had done, she tried to compensate letting his children to be and do whatever they wanted now.
She is alone.
She'll be tortured by her own mind.
She is human.
She must be forgiven.
Forgiven, yes. Excused for almost killing her own daughter? Never.
Beauty and the ultra beast
Lusamine didn't always be a cold bad person. She used to be a good soul, and a loving mother and wife.
. I love watching your videos
Thanks for watching! ^.^
Np
I thought Guzma was Lily’s father and didn’t know until now
Nope, Guzma and Lillie have no familial connection whatsoever -- Guzma just happens to also live in Alola.
Aaaannndddd I just happen to find this video after I've scheduled an upload of a similar thing. You'll probably heavily agree with my ideas because you and I ended up seeing the same exact connections. But I tell the story from Mohn's perspective instead! I hope you'll enjoy if you end up watching it; you're gonna think it's the next natural step from what you were talking about in your video. I guess great minds think alike?
Soo...like Spiderman and venom?
Got killed by crazyness
Can you do a Theory on The Evil Malamar in the Anime?
Yeah! He should! I love those 2 episodes.
Isaac 10 Exactly and they Barely Gave him any Backstory or Motives for his Actions
Truthfully, I haven't watched the anime in years, haha. If I did do that, I'd have to put time aside to watch a lot of the anime (particularly the X/Y anime) so I would have material to work with, although to be honest, I mainly just focus on the video games anyway.
Not to really worry Malamar only appears in two episodes and They're Called "Consiracy to Conquer" And "Facing the Grand Design"
I have pokemon moon but i didn't go through the part where Lusamine got consumed by the jellyfish ultra beast
Nihilego?
0:47 THEY ALL HAD BOOSTED STATS!!
Is this negative toxic behavior why they made Lusamine so fluffy happy and silly even in ultra beast form in the anime? -because we own the dvd season that has her transform so im just curious about the differences-
Yep.
Can't have the victims relate. We have to tone it down for the kiddies.
*Coming from a franchise that made Team Plasma*
@@SteveCrafts2k It's not toned down and people can absolutely still relate. Anime Lusamine is honestly way more complex and nuanced, they go much more in depth, fleshing out her character a lot more and making the whole situation so much more "real" and impactful.
she's toxic in the anime too
No lusamine can't be forgiven
Skylander dude Amen Bro!!
Have her denied Bill's treatment. Keep her caged to the bottom of the sea. Let her suffer.
Or, free her from the neurotoxins so she can be fully conscious when she's brought to trial and her reputation as a motherly, angelic figure is spectacularly DESTROYED. I'd love to see that.
SkySlasher I can
Master N -.-
She is not as obsesed as me
Loo-sa-meen-ay...ny-il-ego...why do you trigger me like this daniel?
I don't really think my pronunciation of Nihilego is too far off, considering the words it likely derives from -- particularly "nihil", which is Latin for "indefinite nothing" and is used in the word "nihilism" (which is pronounced "Ny-il-ism").
Super Nerd Daniel Still triggers me tho. What about Lusamine.
I'll just say it this way:Who you are is not what you did, I personally think Lusamine can be forgiven... It's Nihelgo's fault that Lusamine brought out her dark traits in the first place
But Lusamine CHOSE to act upon them.
DO NOT excuse abuse.
I was disappointed about Lusamine ☹️
Until this video
loose-ah-mean
nih-hil-ego
It's actually Nai ah lay go.
@@SteveCrafts2k no it's not its ni-hil-ego
@@mysticmisc4585 have you even seen the anime?
They said it like "Ni ah lay go"
@@SteveCrafts2k and that's incorrect it's pronounced "nigh-hil-ego". do you even know anything about pokemon?
@@mysticmisc4585I saw the anime, and it's literally spelled Ni a lay go.
Lu-sa-mean! Not Lu-sa-mi-nay
Winn Schott No, Luz - mane
hello friend :D
xXsapphireXx Minecraft 'Sup?
Lusamine dressed Lillie like a nihilego so she could stand her. And yes I forgive we friends :3 😂😂😂
Pls respond and if you do HELLO!!!
'Sup?
Super Nerd Daniel GASP OMG HE REPLIED!!!!
Moonlight Human/skeleton xD
Isaac 10 *foams from mouth*
Let me make this theory solved quick.lusmaine husband is mohn