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NIMBYS vs REM
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- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2022
- The NIMBYS awaken and try to take down the REM l’Est
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References & Sources
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[1] montreal.ctvnews.ca/here-s-ho...
[2] globalnews.ca/news/6920158/mo...
[3] www.cdpqinfra.com/en/rem-est
[4] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... 69km + 67km (P1) + 32km (P2) = 168km
[5] canada.constructconnect.com/d...
[6] www.cdpqinfra.com/en/rem-est
[7] 600 / 40 = 15
[8] www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...
[9] www.ledevoir.com/societe/tran...
[10] www.mtlblog.com/montreal/mayo...!
[11] montrealgazette.com/news/loca...
[12] www.stm.info/fr/a-propos/gran...
[13] www.lapresse.ca/actualites/gr...
[14] www.cdpqinfra.com/en/projects...
[15] www.ledevoir.com/opinion/idee...
[16] rem.info/en/news/6-maps-help-... cdpqinfra.com/en/news/article... 67km + 32km = 99km
This is so unbearably frustrating. Who's in charge of making the decision at the end of the day? How can we reach out to them?
It's in the mayors @Val_Plante hands so I'd email those guys. They got their revisions, it's time to greenlight it because the project is as good as it's going to get. It will be canceled this summer if they play politics and demand to be on the inside. They don't seem to understand that this susceptibility to NIMBYS is why they don't have a seat at the table, and that being on the inside is actually a curse. Being able to say "The CDPQ are just crazy capitalists" is their current advantage. They're just too stupid to realize it.
I don't think you can: they're that dense.
Whoever the NIMBYs are talking to are the people who need to hear from the project's supporters. If the decision makers only hear from one side they will assume that's the only side out there.
@@kb_100 Not to mention NIMBYs are a shrill, persistent bunch. You'll need to fight extra hard to be heard.
@@kb_100 a facebook group and discord server have been started to help politicians and journalists find people who support projects like the REM and densification:
discord.gg/vtayAdbM
facebook.com/groups/739943636995767
I don't even live there and I feel both bad and angry for the people who wont get this project.
Honestly the government should have a referendum in the neighbourhoods surrounding the REM to give a voice to the silent majority that supports the project.
When the protestors are louder and more disruptive than the rail line itself
People listen to car traffic all day.. but GOD FORBID they hear a train OHH THE HORROR! 😱
You went to Vancouver to film what it's actually like, you absolute legend. Everyone needs to see this video, brilliantly explained.
My sister and Uytae are there, was due for a trip.
When NIMBY's (mainly people who didn't live near it) were complaining about the Tramway in Quebec City people started a pro-tramway groups to counteract the noise, that is one way you fight against it. Let people know there is a pro-voice so always good to start a pro-voice group on something as simple as facebook and share it with your friends and viewers.
Agree ❤
thats why in Switzerland, for large projects like this, we have mandatory referendums. When the public says yes, we build it, when no, we don't. And if you don't like it, there's the door ;)
Sounds like the reactionaries could just hijack the campaigns and get good projects cancelled tho. Ah, democracy
There's nothing like Montreal in Switzerland though. Who would hold the referendum? Switzerland is a small country with a bunch of small cantons spread out in valleys. Montreal is a sprawling metropolitan area of 4 million in a sprawling province of 8 million people in an even more sprawling country of 40 million.
@@soulscanner66 u could still have city-wide refs tho. basically everyone eligible to vote in council/mayoral elections can also vote in a referendum.
@@thegreypenguin5097 Back in the day, I lived in Brossard and found my first summer job replacing people on vacation in retail in the east end of Montreal. 2h30m commute one way. So it makes sense to me that people all over the Montreal metro area should have a say here so they maximize employment opportunities. How do you work that? Pointe-aux-Trembles and Brossard aren't even in the sam administrative region, let along the same city.
@@soulscanner66 well for example people that commute to London from outside greater London don't vote in london's elections, so i think itd be like that
You mention cut and cover. Quite honestly, that is one of my big pet peeves when it comes to transit. It is a valid construction method in Europe and Asia, but for some reason, in North America, we consider it to be too disruptive. We give way too much importance to short term irritants. We prefer to use more costly deep bore tunnels and limit our ability to finance other projects.
"We give way too much importance to short term irritants." The pandemic has made that very obvious.
Which only means people only think of themselves. The "me above everyone else" mentality ruined just about everything.
@@ianhomerpura8937 A few weeks ago, the REM de l'est was pretty much cancelled for that reason. I absolutely hate NIMBYs. The project definitely had a lot of problems, but the alternative probably won't materialise for another decade or more. I've been predicting for the last 2 years that Taschereau would be built first and at this rate it definitely looks like history will prove me right. The southern shore can probably see the writing on the wall at this point and knows what their choices are.
@@jonathanlanglois2742 taschereau boulevard is so indefensible, any project is better.
It all goes back to giving top priority to automotive traffic. Automotive traffic cannot ever be disrupted or impeded.
One reason why there were few NIMBYs against the original REM route plan is that there's a frustrated history regarding the original train line that most commuters from Roxboro out to Deux Montagnes (DM) remember. The CN-run relatively frequent but slightly expensive train service out to DM eventually got services cut way back AND prices increased to the point where it lost the ridership it needed to be sustainable, never mind practical. Once the AMT/EXO took it over, service and rail stock improved, but the new REM was the answer to everything still wrong with the service. I mean, what's the point of having a train from DM to downtown Montreal if you can't even be sure you can catch the last train back home after a hockey game? The loudest complaints so far have only been the amount of time people have to wait for REM to finish, since in the meantime, there is no train at all and the replacement bus is, to put it mildly, a joke. No, we wait patiently for this modern service that will finally connect the outskirts on the north shore, and even the airport (OMG what!?) to downtown in a practical manner that really was overdue in the 2000s.
The CN does not carry any passenger, it is done by Via Rail
@@JaStargazer That is true today. In the 1960s and 1970s, the commuter line to Deux Montagnes was run by CN. Via Rail runs the intercity lines between Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto, for example.
@@JaStargazerVIA was founded in 1977, back then it was the Freight Railroads that did passenger
The STM never controlled the Deux-Montagnes line. That was under AMT and EXO's jurisdiction, as the rest of the commuter rail lines are.
@@mikeamber2528 Thanks. Corrected.
Complaints about potential noise of train lines these days is pretty absurd. I live in a 50k city with a tiny arterial road below my window on the first floor and I can barely hear my own thoughts at rush hour times or when some psycho wants to impress people with his stupid new car. Yet, nobody has ever complained about street noise, where are all of those NIMBYs all of a sudden?
It's a good point - the trains that go by are always the same type and volume of sound. The cars that go by my place sometimes have music blasting, or there's a Harley or a street bike with no muffler or some car with straight pipes peeling away from the light. You can't predict it.
You can complain if it's a rail bend or intersection, those can be loud if not maintained properly. But straight sections of track with sound barriers are fine even if it's HSR
When parts of the Dandenong line were elevated to remove level crossings, there was a hue and cry from the NIMBYs but when it was all finished, people agreed it wasn’t all that bad. One of the objections was the area under the railway would be a ghetto but it was all cleaned up with public amenities created and people said it was really nice.
Ahh yes, that reminded me of the Gold Coast Light Rail project, where all the local NIMBYs were complaining about how it "destroyed the local businesses" or "disrupted traffic" and once it get built, the NIMBYs simply just shut up and moved on to complain about the expansion in other parts of the city.
Likewise, based on what I have seen, the Australian NIMBYs are blunter about their stance than others, with many just straight up admitting that they don't want the project because "it will bring in the poor, undesirables and minorities" or "only people that use public transport are povvos and Asian exchange students" (yes, actual stuff I've heard from NIMBYs)
@@kantheasian836see, this is why I dislike NIMBYs when they are xenophobic or class warriors for being against Centrelink benefits users
I bet they are surprised that I can use the bus
Trains in Melbourne aren't the worst but you won't see me walking Melbourne at midnight
@@kantheasian836 Asian exchange students are the reason why Australian universities continue to rake in profits. Why hate something that makes you money?
Great point about the difference between consultation and capitulation. Transit agencies are (understandably) very reluctant to tell NIMBY's that "yes, we heard your points. We don't think that is worth xyz to mitigate, go pound sand".
just the airport section is going to be a lifesaver for every time I visit Montreal. The east needs it, heck NIMBYs
Every city has NIMBYs and they are almost all so narrowly focused on their little stretch of the city that they fail to see the benefits for the city as a whole. They should be ignored most of the time.
I live on a truck route in North Vancouver... People complain about the trucks, but it's the constant noise from regular vehicles driving by that bothers me the most!
I remember not long ago the citizens of the City of West Van complained to Translink that the R2 RAPIDBUS would bring large noisy articulated buses down their streets. It was due to that and the removal of a few on street parking spaces the entire proposal of the R2 almost fell apart. It was supposed to end up in Caulfeild but was truncated to Park Royal permanently. In my opinion I think the massive amounts of traffic backed up on the Upper Levels Hwy & Marine Drive are the large and noisy problems not these new Hybrid/Electric buses! A complete shame thanks to NIMBYism!
I could go on a rant about all that you did here, but I'd just be repeating everything you said in my own words. So I'll just say I _loved_ this video!
Seeing you stand in the middle of Rene-levesque and go all the way to Vancouver to get a sound sample was great!
You're getting so much more professional!
You’re so right when you say that people don’t actually mean consulted when they say consulted, they mean give me what I want and logic, science, or evidence be damned.
You can be consulted. But being consulted does not mean you will get what you want. You can be consulted and subsequently denied as more people will benefit from it.
That clip where you can't even hear the train go by because of the car noise... *chef's kiss*
It’s absolutely absurd how much say municipal and local governments give to NIMBY’s. This is true in Vancouver with NIMBY’s constantly arguing desperately needed housing developments are destroying the character of their neighbourhoods. Yet their current neighbourhoods are an absolute joke and these developments would actually make them livable and pleasing to the public! It’s really crazy how they fight tooth and nail to keep their measly stroad infested neighbourhoods the same cause to them it’s aesthetically pleasing.
There’s gotta be a change in the way these consultations work cause public transportation projects within Canada have been put on the back burner for decades due to NIMBY objection. People need to realize public transportation in the year 2022 as you stated is not old and outdated large metal viaducts but opportunities to create walkable boulevards full of shops and places to meet at. Public transportation isn’t just something to get from point A-B but can be a destination to meet friends after work or a quaint cup of coffee under the cover of the transit viaduct on a rainy day. This is also the case for the city of Hamilton in the 1980’s as they were supposed to get a Skytrain like system using the same UTDC ICTS Mark I trains from Scarborough and Vancouver but NIMBY’s fought hard stating people riding the trains would be able to see through their windows and a total destruction to the character of the city. Low and behold the project was scrapped indefinitely and the money went nowhere. It’s a shame we miss such fantastic opportunities due to a few oppressive individuals! I definitely think it will get to a point where the large majority begin voicing our opposition to NIMBYism especially as cities across Canada become massively expensive lacking adequate transportation and housing developments.
I didn’t know the NIMBY’s of Montreal have caused such a headache for Caisse, CDPQ and the REM as the project only benefits the city and residents! I just hope they don’t get their way and ruin the greatness of what could be REM l’est!
Where I live, public transport projects are always popular, but increasing housing density in established suburbs in often resisted by nimby's, yet there are no complaints when they destroy bushland and farmland with low density housing developments on the outskirts that is forever expanding my city outwards. It only has a population of 2 million, yet it is stretched over 150km long. Everyone wants good public transport, but they don't seem to understand how good public and forever expand the city low low density urban sprawl.
The government hasn’t discovered the power of the middle finger yet
Well it because government suck at developing housing and they put anyone in housing without doing proper background. Im all for housing as long as the private sector give money too or develop it
@@1978Prime Let me guess...Calgary? Or another overly sprawled city?
@@trevorthefoamer220 I've learned that sometimes people just need to be dragged into a better future kicking and screaming before they realize they like it
i live in Vancouver and used to ride the skytrain daily. the noise is something all Vancouverites just get used to if they live near a station and honestly, he's right, it's not that loud. Cars are much louder. I lived near a station for 10 years and i actually enjoyed the sound, it made me aware of what time it was when it started up at 0500 without having to look at the clock.
9:40 What a terrible shame. The first corridor was located centrally in the neighborhood and on a street with many destinations. If locals and politicians had just left the case to do its thing they'd receive an amazing state-of-the-art transit system with zero effort. 😱
I come from Boston where it just cost $7 billion to do a 5 miles. So I totally get what you're saying. And I'm truly looking forward to the REM opening in Montreal. That being said, we know the history of getting new public transport into poorer neighborhoods does. Millions of people will be displaced because now hipsters think it's the coolest place to be and the rents get quadrupled. It's happened here in Boston and it happens all over the world. We all know there's no answer to that equation but regardless us poor people have to live somewhere. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Great video. REM will increase all property values.
I live in Miami. I ride the metro everyday and I know just how limited yet useful it is. Despite how dirty and ineffective it can be, it exists and I'm thankful for that. For years expansion has been planned but recently a metro bus expansion was given instead since metro expansion was so expensive. I always wondered why that was the case, now I know why. Thanks
I lived in Vancouver. The train was great. I live in montreal now I can vouch and say when the rem is done people will love it
Montreal already looks like a public transportation haven compared to Memphis, Tennessee where I live. I do however completely understand your frustration. This project seems completely reasonable and needed especially for lower income parts of the metropolitan area.
I can't be the only one that kind of likes the clicky clack dark steel elevated train bridges, old stuff like that gives a city character
I think this was exactly the same person in the thumbnail that was against our bike park proposal! It was on an abandoned ski hill in the center of town, on already highly disturbed ground, full of invasive plants.
In Australia, new railway projects go through a series of painful feasibility studies which spin it out into another feasibility study. The great example is the Melbourne Airport line which was proposed in the 1960s and reviewed to death by a succession of governments. Pollies point to airport lines in Sydney and Brisbane claiming them to be white elephants. I know the new lines show a dip in initial usage and then pick up over the next few years. Perth just got one built in a relatively short time with apparently minimal effort.
Legendary NIMBY takedown
If NIMBYs can't pay for the added cost of their demands, you might as well not to listen to them. Why would the collective pay to accommodate their unfonded and irrational needs ? Their might become more pragmatic when they see the bill.
Sweden would greenlight this project. It looks like its gonna add a much needed vivification to the city that will help it get better in the long run. It's called growing pains people. Yeah it might hurt a little bit sometimes, but in the end you're gonna be happy for it.
I am honestly surprised citizens are more mad at trains passing by than any other possible subjects such as cost ect. I used to live a street across a train station and the loudest noise you would hear was the horn. It wasn't too loud even at night I think the didn't blow the horn that much. Plus, for that part of the video where citizens were mad it was going to be built next to a freight corridor is ridiculous. Honestly freight trains are way louder! At my current home I can hear a freight train horn around 1.5km away. Settle down!!!!
Had to pause this video twice due to the bitter sensation of this issue.
WoW. Looking back at it I didn’t even think the new project would be this bad.
I'm loving this series. Thanks Paige!
I'm so glad it's working for someone
@@PaigeMTL It is! Your videos are of a very high quality and are much more informative than any newspaper. And also entertaining.
In terms of the REM de l'Est, I believe that underground is preferable in high-density areas (not absolutely necessary) and elevated is reasonable in low-density areas.
I am happier with the architectural and urban design vision (especially the guideway) but it should be refined to have a greater focus on the human-scale, less dead spaces, more interesting & detailed station façades, and a refinement of streetscape materials (paving, lighting) which I think is too contemporary. I really don't like those spotlight poles.
I would rather have an NYC style elevated than an 8 lane super-stroad. The El might clackity but if you want to run over to the deli you do not have to risk 8 lanes of traffic probably going 20 over the 45mph posted limit.
I’m from Vancouver, and I always thought skytrain was super loud until I took the Montreal metro
Former resident of HoMa here: I was always in big distress when I came to my former home from Longueuil. I drove over the Jacque cartier bridge and then I had to get to the rue Notre Dame or St Catherine "eastbound". It would be nice to see the Notre Dame in a smaller scale.
In Frankfurt, they got rid of the trams against the will of the people. The biggest Ped zone the Zeil used to have a lot of tram lines which made the centre a centre. After the 60s, they tunneled the tram to a dual system as a quasi compromise. There are 4 lines going from the Suedbahnhof up with different termini. The system operates below surface until the Dornbusch area, when the U Bahn on the street level and behaves like a right of way tram. There are still trams in Frankfurt though. No idea if that works out for the REM.
A lot of people protest what might be good for them. In my area in Germany, the railway line got suspended and canceled. The tracks are still there but what are the mayors doing here? Building cycle paths along the train line, ripping half out the rails. The rail line is now an eye sore and does not serve any purpose anymore. When it ran, the rolling stock were not very well maintained and it lost a lot of ridership. A lot of branch lines got that demise in Germany early 2000s and reactivation is slow. If that rail line would run, I would not need to travel by car to the nearest ICE train stop. But there is no political interest and we are too rural here. Instead we are tearing down a working railway station "Stuttgart 21" and surfacing it with a lot of problems for the past 20 years or so.
First let me say thank you for making this video, it is very informative. It also made me sad to see that some people in Montreal would refuse to have a light rail near their house. I really thought quebecois were better than Americans, better jugements, better discernment, but no. It makes me sad because, good urban planning is so important for your happiness and the future of our children. I have been thinking and trying to find a way to inform people and influence to help built better cities. I am very glad that you are making those videos, at least you are doing something. I wish I soon find what I can do also to help.
And it cost very less compared to Toronto's subway project
In Toronto NIMBYS oppose all progress on the light rails and subways. So for the Yonge North subway extension and the Finch and Eglinton LRTs, much of the lines will be rather expensively built underground instead of at street level in suburban areas where it really isnt necessary
This gigachad clearly took advantage of Air Canada or Flair and flew to Vancouver simply for this video. Props to you man, I thought I was the only insane one.
I know, right? It just clicked for me the other day that if you didn't get any extras, no suitcase, no nothing, you can go almost anywhere on a whim for super cheap. One of my friends literally went across the country for A DAY with a backpack, he got a $35 round trip on Flair...probably just walked downtown, saw the sights, ate lunch and flew home 😂
Tellement toujours difficile de faire avancer des projets novateur au québec :(
Holy shit man is this relatable. I mean heck even in Copenhagen where I'm from we're dealing with so many stupid Nimbys upset at even the smallest things like closing a side street to car traffic. Heck we have a proposal in Copenhagen for an 8km long tramway to partially replace the city's busiest bus line, and though it really should be longer, its so sorely needed. But so many nimbys are against it and there are even right wing politicians comparing tram tracks to the Berlin wall! Just complete insanity. And the worst thing is that it could be dropped in favour of a slower, and much lower capacity BRT... For the northern section of a bus line that carries 17 million passengers annually already!
I've never been to Canada, but I can't get enough of this channel.
I was in tears over the NIMBYs-government-transit agency bit with the money bag getting bigger and bigger 😂 SO funny and SO frustrating
NIMBY groups come and go. Affected residents move away, die off, etc., and their replacements will be forewarned and therefore likely won't be bothered by nearby transit/traffic noise. No one forces anyone to move close to railway lines, highways, and airports.
Watching this video reminded me to check my county's transit authority meeting schedule. I need to fuel my fight for a right to an independent life as a disabled person off of the tears of old NIMBYs. "We don't want a city!" Tough shit, you are in the middle of a county that is basically 100% built up. You're getting a city.
My village in the 🇬🇧 my village is near a metro line. We benefit greatly being in between Newcastle and Sunderland. Yet nimbys went apoplectic when they wanted to build a car flyover to replace 2 level crossings.
Now the upgrades to the rest of the network, frequency is going from every 12 to 10 mins and the same people will be complaining about the extra wait at crossings. Cannot win.
Why would they complain about grade saperation?? It would be a win-win situation for everyone!
It has to be said, over and over. The correct choices for transit are: Automated Subway (Underground or Elevated), Automated (Light) Metro (Underground or Elevated), Automated Gondola (for steep grades), then Trolley-bus or Battery Bus (for inside catchement area of the automate transit.) You don't build non-automated transit systems anymore unless you are capitulating to driver/transit-police Unions or NIMBY's. If your city can not justify the ALM, then it certainly can't justify any other form of light rail.
Remember, before the invention of the personal car, a lot of big cities had interurban systems which were "light rail" in today's vernacular, in the same way a Trolley-bus used to be a streetcar on rails. Same infrastructure was in place (And in Vancouver, the Trolley Bus lines all run on the original Streetcar network, where the Skytrain replaced the original Interurban from Vancouver (Terminal Ave) to New Westminster.) Calgary and Edmonton capitulated and run their light rail systems at grade in places, and those are the places that keep snarling traffic and having vehicle collisions. People point to Portland and go "That's how you do it", Portland has so many very expensive accidents with it's light rail system.
Meanwhile, What's the worst that the Skytrain has done? Killed one dog, and several accidents that would have been avoidable with platform screen doors. Something the REM wisely has. Grade separation means no expensive vehicle collisions and the subsequent repairs. Automation means drivers don't over-apply brakes, so they last longer and are less noisy. We can engineer automated rail systems to last longer by just choosing better engineered rolling stock, and requiring the manufacturer to actually make them quiet.
BTW, I seem to recall the REM's rolling stock is the same width (2.95m) and twice the length(76m) as the ROTEM Canada Line (which are 3m x 40m) so that is a fairly accurate comparison.
Even old elevated Metro/commuter-Rail tracks aren't as bad as they are painted if they are well built, maintained and the used rolling-stock is - again - well built and maintained. In Hamburg, Germany there is a "viaduct" built in 1909-1912 for the local metro in one of the priciest and most popular neighborhoods in all of Hamburg. The local TV-Station made a program about it where they portraying people living and working along the tracks and even following a maintenance-crew. And the noise-level beneath the bridge is remarkable low: ruclips.net/video/6G4e8MnTse0/видео.html
225 passengers per car? They're definitely an improvement over the bus, but 100 passengers per car would already feel uncomfortable. It's going to show it's limitations during rush hour. They should've went with 3 car sets that paired up to 6 during rush hour.
Vidéo très intéréssant et qui fait réfléchir sur l'avenir de nos transport ! Great job !
This is a great video to show how quiet trains can be! Do these fools understand the increase in value to their property this would bring? If you don't like it let it be built first- sell your stupid house for a massive increase in value- and move further into suburban car infested waste land!
Man, this channel is so good. great pacing, easy to understand visuals and you are spot on with every topic. Im gonna be sending these to so many people.
the credit music gets louder as this series continues
is this a reflection of Paige's growing unhappiness of project opponents?
Wait, so did they cave in to the NIMBY's demands, or is it still going on the elevated tracks? I don't live there, so I only know about this from these transit channels.
Its elevated as soon as its out of downtown. But these bozos decided to live on a 8 line Boulevard and are now crying because 4lines of the street will be replaced by the train. Those NIMBYs are absolute fkg morons
The sad thing about democracy is that you have to convince out of their stupid inertia people about their own self-interest.
@@12bananaboy It's honestly so stupid. Replacing 4 lanes of traffic with 2 lanes of trains is objectively better for everyone involved. I think they're mad about it because they're bored old people who have nothing else going on in their lives.
@@qjtvaddict Autocracy has a worse track record, so what's your alternative?
@@12bananaboy That's forgetting the other part of the track which is going through a poor neighborhood, and not replacing a road, but a green zone.. And it's closer of the appartements than the road, when the zone is already noisy because of this road, AND the port.
"Oh but that's already noisy anyway, keep adding stuff, they're poor anyway, they can't do anything".
Top notch. Great video and explainations.
Colisse. J'habitais juste à côté de la station Montpellier, et je prenais tout le temps le train pour aller downtown. J'avais hâte en maudit que le REM soit ouvert. J'ai été à Vanvouver, et j'ai été immédiatement jaloux d'eux, avec le SkyTrain. Le boulevard où ils voulaient construire le REM Est est de la marde anyway. Il va vraiment falloir faire des contre-manifestations, aller aux assemblées de cartier.
Là, je suis rendu en France, à Strasbourg, une ville de trams, de vélo, de petites rues qui méandrent. C'est tellement plus joli qu'à Mtl. Même si un REM c'est pas un Tram, toute expansion du transport en commun se traduit par moins de voiture, ce qui signifie énormément plus d'espâce réclamé. Il est absolument impératif qu'on sorte de notre dépendance à la voiture.
Le problème du REM, c'est qu'il ne transformera pas les automobilistes en usagers du transport en commun. l'ARTM l'a déjà dit, il cannibalisera tout simplement les usagers des bus, de la ligne verte et du SRB Pie-IX, qui existent déjà à l'est.
La CDPQ a indiqué que la ligne DM serait hors service pendant seulement 2 semaines, mais ça fait deux années...
@@SonsOfSevenless L’ARTM croît encore que d’immenses stationnements incitatifs sont une mesure efficace pour favoriser le transfert modal. Elle a complètement errer dans sont analyses du REM. C’est absolument navrant.
@@SonsOfSevenless Non, la ligne verte n'as pas le service suffisant pour être "cannibalisée". Encore, on doit penser cette type de projets à futur, maintenant il peut être un peu redundant mais la capacité de la ligne verte es presque rempli déjà, le SRB n'est mais qu'une solution temporaire, la capacité d'un SRB n'est pas durable longtemps, une ville de la taille de Montréal doit penser en les besoins que la croissance de la population causerai dans les prochaines 30-40 ans, et le REM, je pense, ne suffise pas pour cette but.
I live in Rosemont and am still waiting for the ligne rose. The problem with our city is that it's old, too old. Montréal can't accommodate all the people here with its current transit and things like building codes (which prevent high-density development).
Honestly, I was against the idea of rem de l’est being elevated through downtown at first but you’ve slowly convinced to change my opinion with these videos (I’m just not fully convinced about the elevated part on René Lévesque through downtown).
But I HATE when people say why don’t you just put a bus instead? It’s clear they never ride a bus. The difference in comfort between literally any type of rail and a bus is night and day. I would take the rail over the bus even if it wasn’t faster lol
buses stink primarily because they are stuck in traffic. if you give em dedicated lanes, traffic light priority and control, bus shelters that rival rail stations, you'd get a much improved experience. you're comparing a rail project that got steamrolled through consultations and review with buses that are underfunded and hobbled by traffic they are expected to share with double parked delivery vehicles and passenger cars.
the answer is both, really. light rail for leaving and entering the city and ground level transit for commutes.
@@northamericanvanlines i disagree that bus sucks, there an essential layer of transit, and they can be great with the good planning and infrastructure. However, even with the best bus service, you still end up with higher operating cost, for a less reliable lower capacity service, albeit more performing than a regular bus service. And it’s still road infrastructure that’s could be used for pedestrians, active transportation and micro mobility.
@@northamericanvanlines watch rm transit videos on BRT systems. They are often more expensive long-term than rail. The REM will reduce maintenance and operating expenses very quickly and will be much more comfortable than a BRT.
@@northamericanvanlines Dedicated lanes aren’t exactly dedicated at street corners where they have to stop at lights so traffic going in another direction can get through the intersection. While they’re faster than buses that share lanes with traffic, dedicated bus lanes and street cars are slow and, as pointed out in the video, need drivers and so are more costly to run. I’ve spent most of my life taking public transit of all types and nothing beats the technology like the REM except maybe bullet trains which only make sense for interurban trips.
I was against the elevated part on René-Lévesques, until I remembered not having the REM will still keep it a 8 lane congested highway. It's already bad enough for non-drivers, the REM can just make it better.
all you have to do is put up concrete or glass sound buffers and the sound is gone
They’re all BANANAs Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone
I am from Montreal, and fuck is the backlash against this project stupid. Anyone who's every seen René-Lesvesque street knows its not exactly a welcoming haven right now. the CDPQ plans would almost certainly improve the connectivity between these two North/South parts of Montreal that are already split by the uncovered tunnel/highway. As for the impact for the the East of the island, it goes without saying; this is much more than a transit project, it is the catalyst for the whole redevelopment of a massive area of the island that has been historically left out, mostly to now decaying industrial developments. We have to keep the momentum going for transit development in Montreal.
> Anyone who's every seen René-Lesvesque street knows its not exactly a welcoming haven right now.
rene-levesque is 6 to 8 lanes of traffic. when that much space is dedicated to motorized transit, it impacts the the liveability or welcoming feeling. the cdpq's plan contributes to the problem by adding a raised transit corridor. if we're to actually improve the place we're bringing people to, we'd have to liven it up with green space, and walkable ground space. the cdpq has drawn up these lovely renders but is leaving the city, i.e. the general public to fund it, which is a bit unfair: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/new-designs-for-montreal-rem-de-lest-1.6377941
I am from Montréal too and your take on it is spot on. But I've had a small property in Toronto for 20 years now and there is no way in hell I am moving back to this outpost of Siberia.
Absolutely agree on the much lower noise footprint of those state of the art elevated tracks. Indeed the bs urban demolition of the last half of the the previous century needs to be healed. Another argument for that healing of those old scars is the fact that our cities need much more open soil space to cope with increased precipitation. The democratic decision process for these projects definitely needs some transformation itself, in which the ‘for or against attitude’ is changed into one where a more constructive and elaborate weighing of pros and cons is transparently certified into a decision, for all eyes to see. In my humble eyes, the lack of such weighing, or the ivory tower stance of so-called decision makers, has only become negative fertilizer for anybody who wants to object. The Swiss model of public consultation through referendums would certainly help. And yes, it will take some time for people to get used to such a change in decision making. It is exactly there where the Swiss show it works, because their consultation method has become a tool to communicate with the people and their role as constituents. Cheerio
One thing I felt the video didn’t address was tunelling through more of the downtown section. I’d love for you to expand more on whether there would be undesirable affects of having an above ground rail placed right through the downtown section of René Leveques
Was really confused by the Kiwi accent on a Montreal video 😅 Love the content!
This project has to pass.
The bus ride from pointe-aux-trembles to the nearest metro station takes an eternity.
Let's say you want to go from downtown (metro place-des-arts for example) to la plage de l'Est (a public beach) it takes an hour and 15 minutes to go the 24 kilometers ride. adding this line would shorten it by at least half.
Plus, i don't understand those protesters already living in front of an existing track! Not only this new train will be quieter than the existing one, it will raise greatly the value of their proptiety...
Being Honore-Beaugrand.
This is the greatest video on RUclips
just ignore them and build the thing.
The slowspensive deathspiral spiraling is the worst optical illusion
This reminds of the situation with Caltrain in the Bay Area. The corridor is being retrofitted for high speed rail as part of a larger state project but there are still many on-grade crossings along the corridor that there are no plans to separate. Rich assholes in Atherton and Palo Alto refuse to consider anything that doesn't bury the train for all of the normal reasons which resulted in some slightly cursed renders of 110 mph trains going through intersections at grade. It's absolutely infuriating that a project that could benefit millions in the Bay Area alone is being held up by a handful of jackasses who will refuse to ride trains all their lives.
That's not to say that the California High Speed Rail Authority or Caltrain have been perfect and obviously I'd rather have HSR with some sketchy sections than no HSR but still, I really feel your pain on this.
Not that subway tunnels are immune from this. It gets even more ridiculous in LA. People in Bel Air are suing the city, saying that a subway tunnel deep under their houses shouldn't be allowed.
@@danielkelly2210 Cities are so sick of dealing with NIMBY bullshit that they're just putting all of their rail transit way underground. San Jose is a sprawling city full of wide roads, but instead of elevating the BART extension to SJ Diridon (the city's main transit hub) they've decided to put it like 80 feet underground, stations included. It's going to be super expensive and it'll take fucking forever but according to BART and San Jose politicians it's worth the cost to avoid the inevitable whining and delays.
The worst part is that they're probably right about it being faster to bury it than build it the way it should be.
I am new here just subscribed, I was a bit angry with the fact that someone who's not speaking French was talking about my province... But I realized that I am watching nearly 100% English content on RUclips and I even speak to ChatGPT in English all the time because it's more convenient some how despite being a 100% French Canadian I am born and raised in Québec City 🇨🇦 I have been living 10 year in Montreal it's an amazing place... The other day I went to the restaurant in my city got an English menu and was so confused I have not been able to use it... But I guess I should be happy give that despite the language thing I have some conten that is culturally closer to me... But yeah I don't think anyone can juge me by what I said I am unlike anyone else 😅😅😅😅
Weird, most of the issues I hear and care about the REM are about the above the ground design downtown and, more importantly, the lack of connection about the green line
How about the suspension railway like in Wuppertal Germany? Would it work too in Montreal?
I'm glad to have seen your point of you, which is usually expressed in "discourse of progress" terms in the French media. In my case, the REM will literally be in my backyard and I want it. I wish it could come sooner than later. The thing is that the government was really opaque in its communication and how it evaluated the project. I tried to go to a consultation, but renounced when I saw that I couldn't ask questions on this particular one. Maybe there's a lesson to learn on how those projects are advertised to the population.
For myself, I was frustrated how the viaducts would just create further divisions of the city, but I'm not opposed to redevelopment of certain sectors, but it just looked like they were going to drop a big ugly viaduct on the green spaces on Notre-Dame out of nowhere to accommodate poite-aux-trembles while every other projects like the blue line were more important.
Blue line is important for sure, but this is equally as important for another reason: we desperately need more housing, and preferably transit-oriented development. L'est is underdeveloped.
@@toastsandwich2862 I agree with you, but funnily enough, we have transit oriented developments that are vestiges from the tramway era. Old point-aux-trembles, Notre-dame street after the 25 and Hochelaga street are all very walkable and waiting to be revitalized. Yet, the REM will circumvent all those destinations that wouldn't need a major redo. It's kind of what happened for many metro stations, they just built them where nobody was going. I get that it's less expensive to do that, but it leaves hostile environments for people who walk and encourages them to use their cars and stuff. Just look at the Sherbrooke/ Saint-Jean-Batiste station. This place is a car heaven, if you go on as streetview and look at that street corner, you'll see how you'll never want to be walking there in the summer. If you compare it to another better station like Pierre-Bernard/Hochelaga, you can see what I mean. Ok, Hochelaga is a stroad, but you can see how there are a lot of trees and shops you can walk to, and there are even nice bike paths. It's also very easy to see that if the rem goes there, more shop will be able to open closer to the station whereas in pointe-aux-trembles, it doesn't seem like the asphalt will go anywhere. The best spot in Pointe-aux-Trembles for quality of life would be around the old train tracks, where there are a lot of walkable areas already. You may think of pointe-aux-trembles as an asphalt jungle, but if you go follow De La Gauchetière Street, or Victoria/Prince Albert Streets, you'll see that there is potential. But Frankly, you want to see what's more urgent in terms of transport, go on Google maps, zoom out to the east of Montreal and just look at the colour of Montreal Nord and Rivière-des-Prairies compared to Pointe-aux-Trembles. Looks like some people are way more in need then others. Looks like the abundant treed don't really need a train....
Great video though you never mention the real deal breaker, the REM de l'Est would double the already existent Green Line subway from Honoré-Beaugrand to downtown and the Caisse wouldn't evaluate the project without that extension because it wouldn't be profitable for them.
the green line is overcrowded, it would have been a good thing for it.
@@louisst-amand9207 it was overcrowded 2h/day before 2020. Now it's not even that.
when's the last time you've taken it?@@girdphil
Ugh same shit here in Saskatoon. NIMBYs in my neighbourhood (arguably the most pedestrian friendly in the city) have way too much power and the city ALWAYS caves their demands. There's a really excellent bike route that's getting extended but the people living along the street got all riled up about losing their street parking (hello, you ALL have garages in the alley) and the city compromised which now gives them some of the most expensive free parking spaces in the city. And last I heard the BRT routes were going to be half assed because the business owners on Broadway were upset about losing like 15 parking spaces. Irrational babies.
That sounds like the worst half assing the BRT routes due to NIMBYism! If it’s one thing Canadian cities AREN’T doing right is BRT!
If BRT is proposed it should have its own right of way or que jumping systems to ensure BRT gets priority over ALL traffic. Shame Saskatoon Transit caved in on the business complaints. Same thing happened here in Vancouver but only to one of our BRT routes.
The R2 RAPIDBUS runs East-West through North Vancouver to the very rich and lavish city of West Vancouver. It was due to the fact our transit agency Translink proposed to run the R2 into the West Van city centre that NIMBY’s came out in droves opposing it insanely! Due to the NIMBY’s opposition Translink was forced to truncate the route at Park Royal which is only less than 1Km into West Vancouver. Long story short transit is fantastic along the entire city of North Van but is still insanely abysmal in the city of West Van.
Bruh I live in stoon too! I'm from Toronto originally tho and god damn the transit is horrible. I live in a "pedestrian friendly" part (upper part of Broadway) but ffs even there it sucks. And all the bus lines are half assed straight lines with horrendous connectivity. Like i either gotta transfer from fucking downtown terminal, hope to catch the 13, or transfer in the middle of nowhere at 8th and circle to get to the university campus which is literally a direct line north from where I live. And it's not like that alignment is not popular! The 13 is PACKED with people going to the campus! This city FML.
Fellow saskatonian ... yup, it's rough
Went through this rubbish in Melbourne Australia, where train stations were put underground or where not possible above ground. The NIMBYs exploded expecting billions to be spent to put a single train station underground that sat 100 metres from a river and 50 metres from the beach. Needless to say the engineering was too expensive and thats where the conspiracy theories started... see Carrum Station for the kerfuffle.
Everything you spoke about happened here in Melbourne, down to the exact fear mongering. Fortunately the government here was able to persevere.
Just put a limit on cars in town everyone will support it when the public transit comes to town
From what I've seen in Montréal-Est is that people want the REM to be underground, that's it that's all lol
What do you think about linking directly to Honoré-Beaugrand station ?
so, what are the measurable decibel levels?
What is the song this opens with? I’m trying to search the lyrics and I just can’t find it.
Anyways, thanks for the video Paige! Really good
Train Gone By by Kaleigh Barker
Paige, instead of doubling a service that exist already (2 metro lines are passing through downtown) why the REM de l’Est doesn’t go to places the metro isn’t? Why REM de l’Est doesn’t go from Pointe-aux-Trembles to Honoré-Beaugrand metro station and raise frequency of metro carts to every 4 or 5 minutes and this would be more cleaver than continue with a REM to downtown don’t you think? The North branch coming from Montreal North would go down to Pie-IX metro station in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve passing alongside the new metro station on the Blue line that will be on corner of Pie-IX and Jean-Talon. Everything has a logic somewhere and save $$$!
ruclips.net/video/-hI170HRQe0/видео.html
Just one important detail... Rem de l'Est is going to be half of the capacity of REM A.
The thing with automated light metros like the REM is, capacity can be upgraded relatively easily by adding frequency.
The technology can scale up to something like a train every 90 seconds, at which point it has *twice* the capacity it has when trains come every three minutes, which is already double the capacity of a train every 6 minutes, and so on.
And what's amazing is that the user experience gets better every time, because you wait less and less for your train!
What that means is it's worth it to wait until you get close to capacity frequency-wise before upgrading stations to accommodate longer trains.
The Caisse wants to build a lone almost *along* the green line in the east?
i feel like the l'est should just be a spur of a automated Ligne Verte because having a train line hug a waterfront halfs the land in the catchment area of the train stations
You guys shoud do a trip around the REM tracks to see how "QUITE" the trains are. There are a lot of noise related complains comming in from people living hundreds of meters from REM tracks, and this before it is fully operational. When they put the Montreal metro on tires, they knew what they did. Unfortunately the REM designers/engineers didn't buther much about the people living near the tracks...
But when it’s a highway it’s always a yes!
You should've asked people door-to-door, they will be more offended by you speaking English than the viaduct.
I agree on your point about Nimbys. They tend to block many good projects and also make housing so expensive across North America (that's another debate).
Regarding REM-B, it goes beyond Ninmbyism. ARTM experts brought serious concerns about the usefulness of this project. Most trips originating from the East End end up somewhere in the Eastern Greater Montreal. REM-B is not going to offer an alternative to these east-End motorists currently stuck on the Metropolitan and on Lafontaine tunnel-bridge. I feel like there's also the opposite problem in the East End. There are politicians pushing for projects (REM-B and Blue line extension) at any cost without looking at the real needs.
Next episode;)
It will be cool when the REM-B steals riders from the Green line and Pie-IX BRT, and doesn't create any new ridership at all. Good use of public funds.
@@SonsOfSevenless it’s kind of wild that *induced demand* comes up when talking about new roads, but not for transit and biking infrastructure. Imagine saying: don’t extend the blue line, it will “steal” passengers from the green line and the Train de l’Est. The REM de l’Est has its issues, but “canibalization” ain’t it.
ruclips.net/video/IWqpdKTfboA/видео.html
@@TD-gc5tq except the blue line extension would provide rapid transit for the 140 bus route which is one of the busiest in montreal.
It's kind of wild that we're talking about *potential* induced demand for transit lines when there are very busy routes right now that are being ignored and left to languish as subpar bus lines.
Growing up in Pointe-Aux-Trembles, I had to deal with extremely long commutes to go ANYWHERE outside of Pointe-Aux-Trembles. When I heard about this project I was jumping for joy. Now I'm devastated that they're almost talking about cancelling the whole thing. The east NEEDS this SO MUCH!
Great video! Where are you oringally from?
Ur video production is insane man. It's mainstream media level of quality.
U deserve more subs!!
It isn't noise or vibrations - it is connecting a nice area out to a poorer area and the people it will brings in.
Then push for better law enforcement! Why blame transit for problems caused by shitty law enforcement?
There should be a cutoff age for voting on long term infrastructure decisions.
It's not fair for people who will be dead once the service opens to determine its fate.
Yup. Reason we can't have nice things.....