@@Geniusinventor Elephants or tigers are wild animals, while the Elefant was a German casemate tank destroyer from the Second World War, and the Tiger H1 was a German heavy tank from the same time period. He's saying that if an animal as big as an elephant or tiger can sneak up on you, it's a fairly good bet that their tank namesakes can too.
Even though the camo couldn't make you invisible. The most optimal use of camo is making it longer for the enemy to spot you. If it can't make you hard to spot then the camo has a problem.
@@snoopydog8831 decent military camo is also effective with thermal sights. It's not like normal tarps and clothing that shines bright and white under infrared
Even if you're only facing infantry with artillery and CAS over open ground, camouflage can make it harder for the enemy to estimate distance and so harder for them to direct fire onto you. Long range heavy weapons have always been a weakness for tanks, so anything you can do to offset their effectiveness is worth it
during ww2 britain was using on some ships zebra pattern camo, while it was making ship itself slightly more visible, it was giving other advantage: it was harder to estimate speed, so aiming was difficult
I can see camouflage being really useful outside of combat for simple visual concealment purposes. When the engine is not running and the tank is essentially just sitting empty, camo certainly could have a huge benefit in concealing the vehicle from detection. Even modern spotting is done with the naked eye or visual light cameras much of the time, but even more advanced sighting equipment might miss a vehicle which is well concealed visually, and which is not producing a significant heat signature. So if you are a tanker and you want to have a sleep, I see being camouflaged as a huge bonus just for that. There are probably tons of other subtle, but useful elements to using camouflage as well, which is probably why we keep seeing it applied even to the most cutting edge machines.
"Some companies even tried to develop active thermal camouflage" tried implies that the British haven't been using Active Thermal Camouflage on their vehicles for over a decade. (Which according to anecdotes from Afghanistan, was primarily used because it kept the tank cool during the summer heat)
@@justarandomtechpriest1578 It has, as far back as the 1970’s. The Germans and French developed Leo 1s and AMX-30s tech demonstrators respectively which used thermal camouflage as part of larger heat mitigation features. it’s just never been practical because the A) the appliqué has (until recently) been very bulky, heavy, and finicky to maintain, and B) too costly to adopt as the technology isn’t mature enough to mass produce and isn’t worth the money sink when you can adopt it in a few years, when it’s not only ready but also cost-effective to adopt
Even battleships get camouflage. Also, not all camo is even about preventing you from being seen. Even if the only thing it does is make it take slightly longer to judge the range to the target it is being effective. There's a military term for a tank crew that takes just a single second longer than their adversaries to go from looking in the direction of an enemy tank to identifying it and how far away it is. That term is "KIA"
ETO, MTO, PTO were specified theatres of operations, with Italy being commonly referred to as the "Mediterranean Theatre" separate from the "European Theatre," so yes, for all practical purposes of armored camouflage in history, Italy was considered a separate region to 'Europe.' It is not a geographical distinction, but a theatre distinction.
Not really tank related, but one of my favorite stories about how effective camouflage can be, even in open terrain, is the dazzle paint scheme they used for a bit on warships. Look it up if you don't know it yet, it's a pretty cool story.
Another thing where you can ask "Why camouflage?!" is planes. I found some plane camouflages to be pleasingly intricate, while also being a perfect match for th environment they were made for.
@@justit1074 weren't some also the dazzle camo meant to basically hurt your eyes enough to miss in a dogfight? seeing dazzle camo ships in black and white makes my eyes really hurt.
@@nitesy381 it might confuse an unfamiliar onlooker, but i doubt it was very effective in the skies, since they usually werent even designed to be viewed from a level plane
People get sometimes a wrong idea that Camo is blend in to the environment. Camos also makes an object looks different than it suppose to messing with enemies sights or tricking them to see that object differently. This applies to Warships commonly in WWII where Germans and Britains use camos to deformed the shape of the ship so it looks smaller target or makes enemies harder to aim.
One factor often ignored is unit moral. Not too fancy somewhat distinctive Camo patterns or clean base colors help with unit identification in a scrum like 73 Easting. Full unit participation in a painting session with a good picnic style meal afterwards also adds value to the unit involved. I have painted a fair number of M113 under varying conditions with varying resulting qualities due tools and paints used. It did have a moral effect on the recruits who participated in the fun.
From the mid sixties until the mid nineties the british green and black pattern was a mix of infrared reflecting and absorbing paints which made the vehicle difficult to spot throughout sights, with the greater use of thermal sights this became obsolete.
On the question of Camouflage i recommend the Monty Python sketch; "How Not To Be Seen ". not only is it a good spoof of old Government PSA's but it also shows the value of not being seen.
I actually participated in a similar test when I was in the army. We flew to a base and they were testing to see the minimum amount of resolution needed to identify a target using thermals. Literally met the dudes designing the nods we used. Really cool experience. Sorry had to be a vague as possible.
So basically, classified info that we the public can't even get from? I still wonder why some classified documents of ww2 plans are still hidden from the public. Its a piece of history that should've been uncovered. But if a historian finds that secret, its like he never saw it after finding it. To only keep the truth to himself and only himself. But really, we the people kinda understand, but if it's history, then its history
I did 6months in mandatory service time in my countrys army. They made our group 35ish ppl try to find something alarming in our location. It was flat field with a deeper forest past it. Nobody didnt spot anything for 2mins. Well then we hear this weird noise coming from the left side of the forest. It was a Leopard 2A5 starting up and then it exposed itself from the forest by coming forward. It had camonets , branches and like grey tarp made to look like mossy rocks. It was very eye opening how effective it is just sitting still in full camo and waiting for perfect time to strike.
In WW1 camouflage, the french were running with it as their tanks hadn't the same issue as the british tanks, the mud throwing. One certain style did they even favour, the "japanese" style, it breaks the silhouette of the tank pretty good, making it harder to spot that way.
big things in camouflage has always been a big interest for me in sci fi settings. Space Marines and Brotherhood Of Steel especially would be terrifying if you would only see them at a rocks throw away
In Berlin back in the 1980s the British had an interesting camouflage 3 color, IIRC, and 2 of those were a gray and a reddish brown and the pattern was a set of rectangular blocks. I asked about it and was told it was intended to blend into the rubble if war did break out
That is true especially in tank to tank engagement where the first one spotted will get hit and destroyed first. The more increase on artillery rounds that fire ( like 155 mm rounds and bombs ) are the most important
I feel like people expect things to have exact benefit, rather than some smaller benefits just adding up and thus bering used. It help sometimes, so we use it. Also: morale
Speaking of hiding a tank. It would be cool to see the Fort Bliss training area, and National Training Center location added to the game. The MOST difficult terrain for a tank. Nothing but Chia pets and waddis. A tank is huge, but they can easily hide behind a Chia pet.
Another important part of camouflage is trying to hide what you are. If you can’t hide where you are, hiding what you are is important. Make yourself look like less of a priority target.
The thing is people think camouflage is to simply not be seen when in reality it's to break the silhouette so that the shooter can't get a precise shot in.
Because when in garrison soldiers have nothing else to do other than maintenance (which there is only so much of), exercises (which only happen every so often), or random shit like painting and camouflaging a tank
The biggest problem with tank armour, especially steel armour, is that it has to be spread out across the entire area of the tank, or at least the areas most likely to take hits, or else it would weigh the vehicle down so much that it can't move. Anything that's going to be trying to kill the tank, say, a rocket launcher or another tank's main gun, can deliver an enormous amount of energy onto one single point of the armour. With that in mind it's kind of surprising the heavy steel armour on the old school heavy tanks was ever a viable strategy in the first place.
What is your favorite Camo's? Mine is the FORAD camo for the AMX-40 & Leclerc's. turn the camo 90 degrees max strength and make the lines a small as possible. helps break up the silhouette of the tank at distance.
Camo is not about making you invisible but breaking up shapes such as straight likes and right angles which the human brain automatically interprets as something out of place.
Even with thermal optics everywhere, no one is gonna have their optics working non stop with some dude looking 360 at all time, so good ol' paint will always be useful
I graduated as an art major and I couldn't find a job. I talked to recruiters and they chuckled at my degree so I looked to speak with other recruiters. I thought about what I could do with my degree. The next recruiter I talked to I told him I could paint vehicles. After training I remember being laughed at for telling everyone I was an arts major. Later on in my career those same guys came back thanking me because the camouflage saved their life's. Source: Trust me bro
Camoes are a Military Thing, Military wants Military things, Military has Camoes.... thats how simple it is But Jokes by Side, Camoes always help you, and even if its just
If you can not be seen, you can not be found. If you can not be found, you can not be targeted. If you can not be targeted, you can not be attacked. If you can not be attacked, you can not be shot.
"Tanks are these monstrous things designed to soak up enemy fire." What? No. They're designed to be able to take a hit and not instantly become combat ineffective. They're not World of Tanks "damage sponges", and if the commander of an armored vehicular element's idea of combat tactics is to "let my tanks get shot at" then the one hope of victory is that the gunner remembers they have a sidearm for a reason which occasionally may involve a radical restructuring of the immediate command network.
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
The most important thing you forgot to mention is that it makes the tank look cooler and more tactical
TACTICOOL RULES!!
If an elephant or tiger can sneak up on you, an Elefant or Tiger H1 can sneak up on you
Explain more I am interested in these words
@@Geniusinventor Elephants or tigers are wild animals, while the Elefant was a German casemate tank destroyer from the Second World War, and the Tiger H1 was a German heavy tank from the same time period.
He's saying that if an animal as big as an elephant or tiger can sneak up on you, it's a fairly good bet that their tank namesakes can too.
Not sure a TIGER is the best example for that bud
@@abercrombieblovs2042 ah I see wildlife vs Machine
@@Gary_The_Metro they're camouflaged only if you're their prey and and not human tho
he didnt mention the survivability onion, only talking around it. i am shocked
what did they do to my spooky?
All hail the mighty survivability onion, its wisdom is unmatched.
Damn censorship forcing my favorite RUclipsr not to talk about the survivability onion 1984 all over again 😔
@@lucasmoreno2154 what did they do to our boy
Even though the camo couldn't make you invisible.
The most optimal use of camo is making it longer for the enemy to spot you.
If it can't make you hard to spot then the camo has a problem.
what about thermals though?
@@snoopydog8831 Infared camouflage?
@@snoopydog8831
Read my comment again.
You might get what I mean.
@@snoopydog8831 decent military camo is also effective with thermal sights. It's not like normal tarps and clothing that shines bright and white under infrared
Some camouflages are made for attention like the one that they showed on the KF 51 panther at the EXPO.
Even if you're only facing infantry with artillery and CAS over open ground, camouflage can make it harder for the enemy to estimate distance and so harder for them to direct fire onto you. Long range heavy weapons have always been a weakness for tanks, so anything you can do to offset their effectiveness is worth it
during ww2 britain was using on some ships zebra pattern camo, while it was making ship itself slightly more visible, it was giving other advantage: it was harder to estimate speed, so aiming was difficult
@@countsudoku6305 it also made it harder to estimate the direction a ship was moving at a distance because of the jagged edges
@@countsudoku6305 it's dazzle camo not zebra.
"With theaters existing in Europe, Italy, ..."
Yes.
the region south of the Alps is a fairly wacky place tbh
Fianlly we've menage to escape the kraut's continent
@@arthur_mcjonhson1608 now the italians can freely switch sides anytime they want without getting half of their nation occupied
I can see camouflage being really useful outside of combat for simple visual concealment purposes. When the engine is not running and the tank is essentially just sitting empty, camo certainly could have a huge benefit in concealing the vehicle from detection. Even modern spotting is done with the naked eye or visual light cameras much of the time, but even more advanced sighting equipment might miss a vehicle which is well concealed visually, and which is not producing a significant heat signature. So if you are a tanker and you want to have a sleep, I see being camouflaged as a huge bonus just for that. There are probably tons of other subtle, but useful elements to using camouflage as well, which is probably why we keep seeing it applied even to the most cutting edge machines.
As a tanker this is uncoprehensible, since putting the camo on it if you stop is like breathing. Its obvious.
2:04
"These methods were generally more effective and cheaper."
Me: spent 2k on bushes to have an entire tree to be on my tank.
"Some companies even tried to develop active thermal camouflage" tried implies that the British haven't been using Active Thermal Camouflage on their vehicles for over a decade. (Which according to anecdotes from Afghanistan, was primarily used because it kept the tank cool during the summer heat)
It's acting like all of NATO hasn't had it for decades
@@justarandomtechpriest1578 It has, as far back as the 1970’s. The Germans and French developed Leo 1s and AMX-30s tech demonstrators respectively which used thermal camouflage as part of larger heat mitigation features. it’s just never been practical because the A) the appliqué has (until recently) been very bulky, heavy, and finicky to maintain, and B) too costly to adopt as the technology isn’t mature enough to mass produce and isn’t worth the money sink when you can adopt it in a few years, when it’s not only ready but also cost-effective to adopt
Camouflage is one of the onion layers of protection for any vehicle or soldier. If they can't see you they can't hit you.
Got here so early the HD hasn't rendered yet, afew minutes of 360p fun.
Surprised no mention of the Berlin Brigade camo, which, while strange looking, was incredibly effective for a specific environment
Even battleships get camouflage.
Also, not all camo is even about preventing you from being seen. Even if the only thing it does is make it take slightly longer to judge the range to the target it is being effective.
There's a military term for a tank crew that takes just a single second longer than their adversaries to go from looking in the direction of an enemy tank to identifying it and how far away it is.
That term is "KIA"
1:47 I like how Spookston list out those regions as if Italy is not in Europe
ETO, MTO, PTO were specified theatres of operations, with Italy being commonly referred to as the "Mediterranean Theatre" separate from the "European Theatre," so yes, for all practical purposes of armored camouflage in history, Italy was considered a separate region to 'Europe.' It is not a geographical distinction, but a theatre distinction.
One, defense against the good old Mk.1 Eyeball and Mk.2 Binoculars.
Two, looking good is half the battle.
Not really tank related, but one of my favorite stories about how effective camouflage can be, even in open terrain, is the dazzle paint scheme they used for a bit on warships. Look it up if you don't know it yet, it's a pretty cool story.
and the british experimented with pink in ww2 in north africa and on planes
Another thing where you can ask "Why camouflage?!" is planes.
I found some plane camouflages to be pleasingly intricate, while also being a perfect match for th environment they were made for.
so they dont get spotted on the ground, or at least confuse reconnaissance on number, orientation, and type of aircraft
@@justit1074 weren't some also the dazzle camo meant to basically hurt your eyes enough to miss in a dogfight? seeing dazzle camo ships in black and white makes my eyes really hurt.
@@nitesy381 it might confuse an unfamiliar onlooker, but i doubt it was very effective in the skies, since they usually werent even designed to be viewed from a level plane
Practicality be damned,
We can all agree camo on tanks look cool.
Remember the tank survivability onion, if you can't be seen, then you can't be shot at
People get sometimes a wrong idea that Camo is blend in to the environment. Camos also makes an object looks different than it suppose to messing with enemies sights or tricking them to see that object differently.
This applies to Warships commonly in WWII where Germans and Britains use camos to deformed the shape of the ship so it looks smaller target or makes enemies harder to aim.
sweet sweet 360p
also, who the hell asks "why use camo" when sight has a longer range than hearing
Debatable for tanks, if you count in terrain obscuration
You'd be surprised how effective camo is. I've been with cadets and if you're camoed up to the eyeballs, camos are extremely helpful
One factor often ignored is unit moral. Not too fancy somewhat distinctive Camo patterns or clean base colors help with unit identification in a scrum like 73 Easting. Full unit participation in a painting session with a good picnic style meal afterwards also adds value to the unit involved. I have painted a fair number of M113 under varying conditions with varying resulting qualities due tools and paints used. It did have a moral effect on the recruits who participated in the fun.
From the mid sixties until the mid nineties the british green and black pattern was a mix of infrared reflecting and absorbing paints which made the vehicle difficult to spot throughout sights, with the greater use of thermal sights this became obsolete.
On the question of Camouflage i recommend the Monty Python sketch; "How Not To Be Seen ".
not only is it a good spoof of old Government PSA's but it also shows the value of not being seen.
I actually participated in a similar test when I was in the army. We flew to a base and they were testing to see the minimum amount of resolution needed to identify a target using thermals. Literally met the dudes designing the nods we used. Really cool experience. Sorry had to be a vague as possible.
So basically, classified info that we the public can't even get from? I still wonder why some classified documents of ww2 plans are still hidden from the public.
Its a piece of history that should've been uncovered. But if a historian finds that secret, its like he never saw it after finding it. To only keep the truth to himself and only himself.
But really, we the people kinda understand, but if it's history, then its history
I did 6months in mandatory service time in my countrys army. They made our group 35ish ppl try to find something alarming in our location. It was flat field with a deeper forest past it. Nobody didnt spot anything for 2mins. Well then we hear this weird noise coming from the left side of the forest. It was a Leopard 2A5 starting up and then it exposed itself from the forest by coming forward. It had camonets , branches and like grey tarp made to look like mossy rocks. It was very eye opening how effective it is just sitting still in full camo and waiting for perfect time to strike.
In WW1 camouflage, the french were running with it as their tanks hadn't the same issue as the british tanks, the mud throwing. One certain style did they even favour, the "japanese" style, it breaks the silhouette of the tank pretty good, making it harder to spot that way.
I feel like asking "Why Do Tanks Use Camouflage?" is like asking "Why do hikers wear shoes?"
"Why do people wear clothes?"
big things in camouflage has always been a big interest for me in sci fi settings. Space Marines and Brotherhood Of Steel especially would be terrifying if you would only see them at a rocks throw away
I'm still hoping dazzle camo will make a comeback, it won't work but damn is it styling.
In Berlin back in the 1980s the British had an interesting camouflage 3 color, IIRC, and 2 of those were a gray and a reddish brown and the pattern was a set of rectangular blocks. I asked about it and was told it was intended to blend into the rubble if war did break out
Damn, the Subnautica Melodie gives me some Nostalgia :3
That is true especially in tank to tank engagement where the first one spotted will get hit and destroyed first. The more increase on artillery rounds that fire ( like 155 mm rounds and bombs ) are the most important
I feel like people expect things to have exact benefit, rather than some smaller benefits just adding up and thus bering used. It help sometimes, so we use it.
Also: morale
That was much more interesting a nuanced than I thought it would be.
Good points but you left put a major one of avoiding detection by enemy CAS and enemy Recon UAVs
Speaking of hiding a tank. It would be cool to see the Fort Bliss training area, and National Training Center location added to the game. The MOST difficult terrain for a tank. Nothing but Chia pets and waddis. A tank is huge, but they can easily hide behind a Chia pet.
Another important part of camouflage is trying to hide what you are. If you can’t hide where you are, hiding what you are is important. Make yourself look like less of a priority target.
While sometimes its obvious for an infantryman to spot a camouflaged tank in the open, I think the effect on CAS is much greater
The thing is people think camouflage is to simply not be seen when in reality it's to break the silhouette so that the shooter can't get a precise shot in.
This was awesome. Thanks for the research!
small funfact abt a tank tested with a weird camo is the b1bis number 251 also known as fantasque the pathern look like a water paint of a forest
Because when in garrison soldiers have nothing else to do other than maintenance (which there is only so much of), exercises (which only happen every so often), or random shit like painting and camouflaging a tank
Because it looks cool. I'd rather a T-72 or Abrams in camouflage than neon pink. End of discussion
The biggest problem with tank armour, especially steel armour, is that it has to be spread out across the entire area of the tank, or at least the areas most likely to take hits, or else it would weigh the vehicle down so much that it can't move. Anything that's going to be trying to kill the tank, say, a rocket launcher or another tank's main gun, can deliver an enormous amount of energy onto one single point of the armour. With that in mind it's kind of surprising the heavy steel armour on the old school heavy tanks was ever a viable strategy in the first place.
I love this channel you mix gameplay with history its great !
What is your favorite Camo's?
Mine is the FORAD camo for the AMX-40 & Leclerc's. turn the camo 90 degrees max strength and make the lines a small as possible. helps break up the silhouette of the tank at distance.
All they have to do is replicate what they did with the T-95, they didn't find that thing for 27 years!
Camo is not about making you invisible but breaking up shapes such as straight likes and right angles which the human brain automatically interprets as something out of place.
war thunder should add camo nets
Idk why but your ending music gives me anxiety, love your content tho
If you ask this question Just look at the 8 bushes on the enemy tank in war thunder.
Hey love the videos spook!!! Keep them up
You make my day when ever you upload
Your a cute little furrie
If we can camouflage a battleship, we can camouflage a tank
Also, when not in combat and stationary you want to hide your positions from enemy recon.
The protection onion layer: "Don't get spotted"
I am quite surprised that you didn’t bring up the survivability union
wow i've never been this early to a spookston vid
Once again we point to the survivability onion
Look at the lag of the killing blow at 1:59 wow lol
1:47 Theres europe, and then theres italy.
Can we make a tank out of the electric motors so there will be no Smoke or Heat being produced and it will be way quite.
Blessed by another video
Really enjoyable video
Cause tanks look swag
Also to support paint companies
And cause invisibility (imagine no thermal sights)
surprised you didn't throw up the survivability onion
The main reason why I always didn't understand the reason for camo, is because of thermal optics.
All part of the Survivability Onion. Can we get a video on that?
1:59 that delayed kill tho
When you put bush on your tank in WT, you almost became invisible in simulation battle
My logic is not everyone has thermal cameras strapped to there face, especially infantry so if you can hid from that your doing your job
As an Abrams it's hard to sneak up on people
Another use is against aerial imagery done by satellite or strategic assets.
I guess people who ask this question didn't see the photo of a beautiful city while browsing reddit (photo that surely doesn't contain fighter jets)
Even with thermal optics everywhere, no one is gonna have their optics working non stop with some dude looking 360 at all time, so good ol' paint will always be useful
Cv90120 t Ghost: did i here infra red? Hold my beer.
To put it simple: You don't want to know how hard your enemy can hit
I graduated as an art major and I couldn't find a job. I talked to recruiters and they chuckled at my degree so I looked to speak with other recruiters. I thought about what I could do with my degree. The next recruiter I talked to I told him I could paint vehicles. After training I remember being laughed at for telling everyone I was an arts major. Later on in my career those same guys came back thanking me because the camouflage saved their life's.
Source: Trust me bro
FINALLY, I've been saying this whole time, Italy is not a part of europe, thank you for finally pointing that out.
"Tanks are like onions"
- Shrek
I wish warthunder had an April fools that's ww1 that mainly focuses on Germany, America and possibly France
Cuz it looks cool bro, definitely
Camoes are a Military Thing, Military wants Military things, Military has Camoes.... thats how simple it is
But Jokes by Side, Camoes always help you, and even if its just
If you can not be seen, you can not be found.
If you can not be found, you can not be targeted.
If you can not be targeted, you can not be attacked.
If you can not be attacked, you can not be shot.
"Tanks are these monstrous things designed to soak up enemy fire."
What?
No. They're designed to be able to take a hit and not instantly become combat ineffective. They're not World of Tanks "damage sponges", and if the commander of an armored vehicular element's idea of combat tactics is to "let my tanks get shot at" then the one hope of victory is that the gunner remembers they have a sidearm for a reason which occasionally may involve a radical restructuring of the immediate command network.
Respect to you all for wearing your Camouflage, it will help you go undetected.
because it looks cool
I'm somewhat scared that Spook didn't mention the survivability onion in a video like this. R U OK?
We need the eagle
Ah yes my favourite continent, Italy
So they look really cool thats why
Yea Pretty much the Onion effect
Any chance of a video on the CV90 family?
Because it makes them so pretty. Tank do spinny.
Why do priority targets need camouflage from the enemy? 🤔
Because it makes it harder to see. Why is this even a question?
Because you would technically have a harder time finding a tank with camouflage as opposed to finding a bright red painted tank.
The entire point of camo is to break up the silhouette of whatever it's on.
Hey Spooky was that you on the Army subreddit?