Machining and Threading a Faceplate...Mistakes Were Made!
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Making a faceplate for my wood lathe...on my metal lathe. Cutting corners and machining don't mix. I know that, I've learned that lesson before, but this project decided to teach me yet again!
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Flip your tool, run it in reverse and thread from the inside out…no more crashing.
The Florida pool pump motor bearing repair guy When Service Calls Longwood approved ! that was good info
When cutting blind threads like that it's much easier to reverse your tool (or mount it upside down if you must) and turn the part backwards. That way you can start on the inside, advance your tool gently (which cuts its relief as it's going), and pull it outwards when you engage the half-nut. The chief advantage here is that you don't need to be as quick in disengaging the half-nut as there's nothing to crash into once your tool is out of the part.
damn, nice idea! I'm always impressed with threading on such machines and I love such live hacks like yours!
@@prostonaukulele4570 It's not even a hack, it's just one of those things you get good at when you start actually thinking about what you're about to do
@@233kosta but for someone who isn't working with lathe it is totally a hack. I used lathe last time in school and they were worn out up to the very end of their life ;). Few years ago I was addicted to watching abom79, this guy opened my eyes on one of the most important thing - centering the object in lathe. Holy moly, so many strange variables when you don't have anything centered on the item you are working on
@@prostonaukulele4570 Yeh, I get what you mean. Back in the bad old days, you used to have to buy the right books and hope that the diagrams would make sense. Nowadays the likes of abom79 are an absolute treasure!
only one thing comes to mind ... cast iron is not a springy material which is why it is used for machine tools where as steel is bouncy ... steel rings like a bell but cast iron is duller sounding ... the vibration in machine parts contributes to chatter while cutting ... other than that the home made one is defiantly stronger as you said ... this issue is probably not as critical for cutting wood
It is always the last cut when things fail.
Isn't that the truth.
stop before the last cut!
Great video 😊
Excellent explanation thank you. Seems more like tool malfunction than a mistake
It prob wouldn't disengage because you were just a lil bit late and the half nut was already in a bind on the leadscrew. Don't ask me how I know this..... Just another reason to use Joe Pie's reverse threading method.
Hahaha! Yeah, how many machinists out there have never crashed a lathe?? (zero!) That was my first time, and for doing tight internal threading like that, I will probably do the reverse method in the future. I had heard of that before, never done it, and then forgot about it. Somebody else mentioned it in a comment.
@@FarmCraft101 Threading out is less exciting for sure but threading in can be a bit less stressful if you get yourself a positive carriage stop, while it will not "stop" the feed itself the visual aid of the stop is actually much more repeatable than a dial indicator for threading.
FWIW this guy made this ingenious simple device for a lathe threading auto stop.
ruclips.net/video/-Riiep0c64o/видео.html
@@Peter-V_00 That is a cool stop he made. Thanks for sharing.
That was impressive but I think I am going to spend the 30 bucks for another plate. Thanks for sharing your craftsmanship.
Shouldn't you cut the threads, then attach to the lathe, then surface. Otherwise, you may have the face not planar to the axis.
looks like you can use a harmonic balance.
Hey you forgot the most important face to face off. the site that fits against de spindlenose gives you the correct balance and minimal runout. you relay on the threat now. It is still blue from welding. goodluck
"everything gets hotter when your tool gets dull." That's not what she said!
very good video cheers!
I was a bit surprised that you weren't using the Blondihacks approach of cutting threads on the far side with the lathe running in reverse. That way, the carriage is moving away from the work and focus is less critical.
Yeah, that was my first time to crash a lathe. I knew it was tight but thought I could manage. In the future, I think my internal threading will be done in reverse as you suggest.
@@FarmCraft101 on the selfish side, I've often wondered what crashing it would look like, so thanks for taking that one for the team.
@@earlye Hahaha! Glad I could help!
Given that the majority of the surface area of the original plate is as cast, your new one has to be better balanced. I have a couple of chucks for my lathe that I've never used because I'm too chicken to try to thread backing plates for them. I would LOVE to mount a threading tool upside down and run it in reverse, but my spindle isn't a locking design and trying to thread in reverse would just unscrew the chuck 😞
Great point. I think I've heard of threading that way in the past, but had forgotten. It makes a crash essentially impossible, but that was the first time I ever crashed a lathe. In the future, I may do my internal threading that way.
Hi uncle john!
Why don't you get a thread gauge? It will tell you if the thread is correct for what you want to cut.
Why don't you reverse the Chuck jaws and turn the piece around THEN cut the threads in the one inch.
Ahhh yeah the joy of making something you COULD buy, but you rather spend 200$ of material (of course only old offcuts you had since 2005 so it does not count) and two days of work doing it yourself because the shipping is 14$... still nice video man, keep em comeing!
It’s more fun to build it yourself. And decent steel is not always expensive. I got enough mild steel to make a steel pallet for a project for only $140. Mistakes aside, he mostly just lost money on his time. $60/h for his experience, 3-4h of his time, $180-$240 of his own time got spent on a $30 piece.
no offense intended but why is your threading dial so twitchy? on mine and other grizzlys its always so smooth?
also on my grizzly the halfnut tends to stick under heavy cuts. made me crash a couple times. i think its the brass halfnuts dig into the steel threads.
Not sure why it looks jumpy in the footage. It's smooth in person. I was definitely doing a heavy cut at the end, as the thread was quite deep with a large area of contact. Maybe that's why it was difficult to disengage.
👍👍👍
Amateur question/observation: the first several threading passes showed that the cut wasn't consistent all the way around. Does that indicate that your center has shifted from when you first bored and trued the outer circumference?
I think it appears that way because of the cutting oil being inconsistent and fooling you eyes. You can see that those cuts all peel a consistent chip through the entire length of the cut, so I think they were right on. But if it was indeed cutting inconsistently, assuming the bore is consistent and round, then you would be correct, it would be off center. (I never removed the part from the lathe until the end, so no reason it's center would have shifted.)
Probably meant that the boring bar wobbled a little.
I think it's an illusion because of the thread start only being at one part of the circle. It makes it look out of round.
@@FarmCraft101 Thank you. I appreciate your approach to educating your viewers.
Turn something with both, if yours is better, then save it.
Great when ya show what goes right and what is a learning curve too lol..
The way he explains things makes me feel like I'm standing there with him and he's teaching me how to change gears and cut threads
Great overview of making a face place. Your description and camera positions were spot on. You are a master teacher giving easily understood information.Thanks.
Wow. Thanks, but I don't feel like a master teacher. I crashed the lathe! DOH!
I believe you are running the lathe way too fast most of the time. 600 rpm at that diameter is quite a fair piece out of the surface speed range even for carbide on mild steel. Next time try slowing down and see if I'm right.....Dave
Yes, way too fast. I would stick around 500 sfpm.
6" dia x 3.14(pi) = aprox 18" circumference.
18" = 1.5 feet.
600rpm x 1.5 feet = 900 (sfpm) surface feet per minute. (too fast)
300 rpm x 1.5 feet = 450 (much better)
When you use a lathe to build another lathe and still when a time traveling cyborg from the future arrives to tell about self replicating robots and you don't believe him.
I always wondered about setting the gears on a lathe to do threading. This was very informative, thanks!
You're exactly how a skilled engineer should be
You have answered so many lathe questions that I have had for years! Thanks you. I also love this channel because the comments are an education in itself. Keep up the good work!!
I think you need to rust treat that now or you'll regret that later. ;)
Seconding this!
Good idea.
The reason you crashed the lathe is because your compound was advancing closer to the backplate with each successive cut while your zero on the carriage remained the same. Its the same threading up to a shoulder on a external thread. Your stopping point gets closer with each cut so you have to dial back your stop with each cut. I thread large diameter course threads everyday and the point I made above becomes clear with courser threads. Try it on a test piece with no thread relief so you can see how the threading tool advances.
So if you do this job regularly, why not do this process in reverse to avoid crashing into the chuck?
@@jeremykemp3782 because with some setups, particularly with specific start locations due to clocking of the mating part, its not possible. Take for instance diving helmets. They typically have a very coarse thread and they only rotate 90°.
@@brandontscheschlog Ah, I see 😊
When you change gears on the lathe put a piece of paper between them and set them tight. The paper will come out when the gears turn and you're left with adequate clearance.
Or just do it your way, I find it a bit faster and less frustrating.
When I used to have a lathe without a quick change gearbox,that is the way I set my gears.Works great but,changing gears is like getting a wisdom tooth pulled. I will never go back to that again
40+ years as a machinist. It's always a little tricky threading into a blind hole.
There have been plenty of replies below in that regard so I won't yammer on with tips.
But I must say, a lathe with a foot brake is awesome for this.
As a wannabe DIY/home machinist I liked your cross slide dial indicator trick to determine when you you reached thread depth. Thanks for the well narrated videos I know they take more time to do and edit.
Thank you for the explanation on the lathe. Although I can't think in imperial measurements, I do get the gist of what's going on. Most makers only talk about the gearbox settings, but this was the first time I learned that the gears can be changed.
For the question you asked: If you're going to fix the plate permanently I'd say affix the (bought) cast iron plate, so that if for any reason your steel plate doesn't work you can always buy or make a new one.
thanks for explaining the gearing , very helpful !
no More out of balance than the log or wold to be trend. if that , i Like it ,well bon son .
A couple is things. First, thank you. I always enjoy what you share with us. Next, I love the Google closed captions while machining :music, applause! Next, as much as I love all of this, I really miss the canon! Thank you again.
I sharpened chainsaw chains by hand for years with terrible results as a whole... eventually the saw would start cutting an arc as you mentioned... the reason was my sharpening ! obviously I would get done with one side and then do the other side but by then my hands were tired and I never took the teeth down as far as I should.... at this I was very consistent !
to my chagrin ! I knew what the problem was but with a 36" bar that is alot of teeth to file !
finally I bought a Harbor freight chain saw sharpener.... I started with my oldest chains I had about 8 old chains ! and after figuring out the sharpener I finally got it wo work flawlessly
even my worn out chains cut like a dream . we had a ranch fire and so I lost my chainsaw sharpener years past and I finally got another one.... this was plastic and I didn't hold much hope for it.... but with care you can make them work too... the problem with hand filing is your consistency and keeping the file straight flat and at the angle needed even in your demonstration you can see the inconsistency in doing it by hand. will it work ? of course!
but a chainsaw chain sharpener is far better....at least for me ! I still have several saws
but rarely use them as I now live on 1 acre in the city there's not much wood to cut here !
I would recommend a chainsaw chain sharpener any day...even a cheap one is better than doing it by hand ....for me at least.... however they do ware down the chains much faster
but in recent years I have learned to be less aggressive in sharpening the chains as I can take the tiniest bit off each tooth if I want .....it's all in the setup ! and my saws now all cut super good.... the chain is the key to good saw working... even on old antique saws !
Just a question, are you boring then dragging the tool back out, its real easy to move your tool off the part, via using your dial, just saying….. then dialing back to where it was then moving in .010, or .020, before measuring take a free pass to remove any tool deflection, then measure, that way no surprises…..
I know this was a while ago and the project is done. BUT After many many years in the machine tool trades, I can tell you two things. One, you didn't need to support it with the tailstock. Two, carbide is often not your friend. when cutting against a surface with a high potential for deflection High speed steel is usually the better choice. You can sharpen it much better to a finer edge which will produce substantially less deflection.
Carbide cuts subsequent to enormous pressures, which lead to deflection.
THIS is why one uses the backwards downcut way of single point thread cutting!!!!!
Hi my name is Kevin from Aus I been watching you make a face plate and having a big stress attack as a mechanical engineer of 55 years I could not believe wat you were doing my computer was coping it , you made every thing backwoods hold your face plate in chuck screw cut from back your thread will be true with the face of the plate I will go be other my computer have a melt down Kevin Schlipalius Deakin Engineering.
I did learn something. Something signicicant. I was thinking of getting myself a metal lathe but realised that there is not a great deal that I really want. So . . it would be far easier not to get one and farm out the job/s. It would have been mainly for masturbatory value only. Thanks for an interesting and informative vid.
That angle will make it wrong by shifting your start point and causing a crash of your single point it small but I was surprised you didn’t snap off the cutting tool but not surprised that you could not disengage the half nut it was pulling on the garage
is the new face plate out of round? it looked like it was wobbling on your last video. it also looked like it went out of round when the carriage hit the face plate. it looked like the face plate was no longer perpendicular to the axis
You actually can test the threads on a part like that by just taking the chuck off the lathe with the part still in the chuck as long as it goes back on the spindle in the same orientation and of course as long as you don't crash the machine 😜
When welding the wand is suppose to go back and forth. Not in a circle.
yes. O no
The larger one you made is what I’d choose.Good work
I’d pay $35 to avoid doing that. 🙂
If I didn't enjoy doing it, I would too.
And that's why you'll never have the joy of answering "I made it" when someone asks "where'd you get that?"
@@Steve_Just_Steve oh, but I do! I lust after his shop, though.
Great video thank you for posting, really good explanation.
"I don't feel like waiting, so I'm just gonna make my own." ---Not Enough People
It is better to make a deep cut on rusty faces to lesson the impact on tooling. Cut behind the rust not through it.
Can you work the opposite way when thread cutting, so there is no chance of crashing into the chuck?
Tldr you got reduciulously lucky after getting reduciulously unlucky
Dial indicate the new plate it is out of wack when you hit it ... true it up!
Cast iron is used for face plates to avoid thread galling. Nice work, though!
That's a good point. If the male thread is heat treated, that will help a lot. A bit of oil or anti seize will stop it too.
are you related to dozer dave on gold rush ?you look and talk just like him
Always clean your leadscrew first.
19:15 A very healthy reaction.
Im now a thread master, bow to me! now just need to learn everything else
And people think they'll never use high school trigonometry in their daily lives.
Much easer in my. Metric. Pour you Americans.
Dude, you seriously need a better threading bar!
When dealing with rust, don't take light cuts - take a heavy cut and get below the rust. The inserts you're using have a positive rake, the cutting edge is up and into the material, light cuts on oxide essentially grinds it off.
Agree. I wanted to take heavier cuts but didn’t have it supported well enough. Don’t. Cut. Corners. When. Machining!
You make interesting videos.
Woah. Pretty trippy @ ~7:25. 🤣🤣🤣
Good sir, would you happen to have any opinion on the Grizzly model G0769 Lathe? I’m getting my first big boy tool and don’t want buyer’s remorse.
I've never used that lathe, or a combination machine like that. It would definitely be useful at times to be able to do some milling on a part without having to remove it from the lathe. Obviously saves on space as well. I own several tools made by grizzly so I can give you an opinion there. My metal lathe, metal mill, jointer, wood lathe, and wide belt sander are all Grizzly. I've not regretted purchasing any of them. Expect some fit and finish quirks, and expect to take a little extra time setting things up to make them perfect. I had to shim my mill and jointer. I made some custom knobs and a large chuck key for the metal lathe. I did a small modification on my sander. Didn't have to do anything to my wood lathe. Overall, I think Grizzly makes decent tools that will do the job they are intended for at the best possible price. It's the best bang for your buck, but you have to accept some minor inconveniences. The tools aren't the best, but nor are they disposable junk like so many things are today. They are solid tools that will get the job done. Good luck.
@@FarmCraft101 thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!
Just as good as yur John son
the crashed one is better :D
Yup, you were playing with fire by running the tool post so close to the work. Zero room for error, as you found out. Couple things. Most lathes- For even threads start the thread dial on any line. Odd threads engage on any numbered line.
When turning on a rusty part you have to take a heavy cut to get past the iron oxide, or grind it off first.
The crossfeed angle for threadcutting involves triginometry- yuk. In general- Compound feed = .75 / thread pitch . So in your 8TPI the crossfeed would be fed a total of ~ .09375 That's with the compound set at 29.5. Thanks for the video.
"Yeah, I could do it better, but I'm too lazy." ---Not Enough People
"Perfection is the enemy of the good enough." ---A Lot of Smart People
great video! you explained it very well!!! thanks John!
Very interesting
😆 no beuno!
you're a good teacher, and a jack of many trades, wow how fulfilling that must be, I'm really enjoying your videos, thanks and keep it going!
Being that I have no experience with laths, since my family has never owned one, I wasn't aware that they could be used to cut a thread. I've re-cut threads, using a tap and die set with a vise, on about two dozen carriage bolts for four wheelbarrow restorations. Well 3 completed ones, still working on getting rid of the rust and patching one hole the barrow the fourth one. Thanks to my dad leaving me the tap and die set, I was able to salvage all the original carriage bolts except the ones that broke, or had to be cut off, or were missing.
Fantastic information on the workings of laths. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you.
heavier a machine part is, better it is, weight is a good way to absorb the vibrations by hysterisis.
weight for weight, cast iron has better damping characteristics than steel, it is the main reason why machine tool castings are almost exclusively made from cast iron.
I need to make a backing plate for my new to me Cushman 8' chuck for my Atlas 12' so this was helpful, Thanks.
👍
Make two!
What a great ride-a-long…… Thanks for taking us along. 👍👍😎👍👍. Amazing how even ‘disappointing’ DIY results turn out much better than the commercial offering. 😜
The mass will almost certainly overcome any torque caused by wobble. At least from what I can see this video. Awesome. 👍👍👍
It Was Clear As Mud, But it Covered the Ground,
Confusion Made Me Head Go ‘Round
Given some of the huge projects you’ve tried to destroy your wood lathe with, it should make it all the more entertaining when it finally tries to kill you if it has the heavier faceplate on it!
PS. Love the content👍
If you machine up an exact duplicate of the spindle nose on your wood lathe,
you can use it to test fit your part while still in the lathe, and fully synchronized for thread cutting.
This saves a lot of time, and frustration in making spindle adapters in the future.
The easier it is to make a spindle adapter, the more times you will want to use it,
and make more specialized faceplates
I'll admit I was going to leave some kind of comment like "Oh my God, so glad that you didn't get hurt when that happened." for the people who scroll comments before watching the video. I couldn't brig myself to do that. I will say that turned out to be a really cool plate in the end. Also a good explanation of the working parts of a lathe.
Thanks for sharing this video. Take it easy man. 😎
Very enlightening. Thanks for sharing what went wrong as well as what went right! I napped through all the threading math. Is that bad? At least it explains why I do electricity and not machining. ;)
Which one will be better? I think that larger pieces will work better on the new one, but smaller pieces may actually benefit from the original.
How much does a metal lathe like that cost i wonder? I can think of so many projects id love to do with something like that
@16:40 you're actually going 32 RPI
Very methodical, very clear - thank you - UK
I always wondered how the second cut matched the first and so on.
22:50 lol 😂
No bueno!
OMG! So glad you didnt get hurt too badly when that happened!
Thanks for the lesson, I needed that because I have the same lathe.
7:40 how do you start boring when you already are? Hehe 😋