I'm not gonna mince words here. I love music as much as the next guy but when I'm working, especially with power tools, I listen with both ears wide open to what those tools are saying to me. And besides that haven't we thrashed our ears enough? Some silence is golden 😂
Ken, you're the man. Seeing this sort of innovation in the guitar world is really neat. Seems like a lot of the innovation in guitar building is going into modern archtops, you've got me goin down the rabbit hole!
Re: background music: Not necessary. I’d rather hear every squeak, every crack, and every labored breath as you crank clamps down. Your videos are perfect. Please-do not change a thing. Your narrations are dripping with wisdom and insights. Every notification of a Parker video means I’m dropping everything to watch it all, start to finish.
Thanks Ken. I think the fresher (less) cured epoxy goes along way in allowing a more pliable piece. Your video series are the best, thorough, honest with calm delivery. Of course wonderful craftsmanship and a beautiful end product. So appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.
this stuff is really great, your potentional sacrifice of materials we ourselves wouldn't want to destroy, in the name of science and improving your product. I learn a great deal like this without the financial risks. Thanks
As I could not get this magic veneer softener here, I use hot steam and until now 🤞🏻 without failure. I haven’t bend Italian chestnut, though. After heating I am prebending the veneer in a heated (with heat gun) form by pushing it with a wooden plug. Then I put the form with veneer and a breathable cloth into vacuum bag. I know, I know, Ken. Vacuum sucks!
As I mentioned, each species and cut of wood presents its own challenges. If you were always using something friendly, you wouldn't need all the tricks!
Have you tried making your own softener? I found this recipe online This is another one • 4 parts water • 1 part alcohol • 2 part glycerine • 2 parts resin glue I use borden UL39 resin. I made some without any glue and with IPA to help flatten some veneer.
I found some instructions for the wood softener, it seems to want one to wet it, and then "Allow the veneers to stand until the surface is free of shiny, wet areas." - It seems they don't really know how long either. 😆 During shaping, it calls for absorbent material against the wood, but your results seem to prove that unnecessary. Honestly tooling and shop noises are better than music during lulls in dialog (to me). Love the series!
Thanks, Alan, the softener really works quite well, although as I've mentioned, some veneers can be reliably bent without it, and also without the linen trick.
Thanks for the video, great pleasure to watch as always! Have you thought of making rabbets in that caul block? As long as you're using the same template for every piece of veneer, it could make it a bit easier to align. Not a remedy, of course, but it may save a couple of nerve cells
I hope I didn't make it look too fussy, but it's really not a big deal to get it to align properly, it's the work of a moment, and the part width is generously oversized, so that's pretty forgiving of a little misalignment. One issue with your suggestion, if I understand it, might be problems with distortion or cracking by applying cross-grain forces to wet, thin material, as there's not much to push on. As an aside, isn't the fact that this works at all kind of wonderful? All I can do is show what's currently working for me, and of course there are an infinite number of ways to do any of these things, a few of which I may have tried and discarded, learned from and forgotten. It's all about getting it done with minimal agony, waste of time and material, and part failure. When I get a recipe that works, I try to give it a gold star and move on. There's always a squeaky wheel or two in any complex series of processes, and those are what I'll be trying to lubricate.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 in America they look like giant sand spurs to me. In Italy they looked more like the heads fell off maces. 30 years and I can still picture them clearly.
inspirational video.....have you tried bending with a male mold?....vac bag ?....i love all this and i wont be able to sleep tonight!.....thanks Ken....appreciate you giving us all this information!.....breaking out the west system tomorrow!
I suspect that the female mold will be less likely to crack things in most cases, but of course you can try a male mold! Maybe it seems easier to make? As far a vacuum goes, I reach for it only occasionally, usually when making a one time tool. The puny pressure of the atmosphere is often not enough unless things are pretty compliant to start with. I know that lots of folks use vacuum for every other thing, and I have no quarrel with them, It just seems like the last choice for most things. Part of the problem with vacuum is that you can't really inspect things until it's all over. For bonding cloth, it can be great, but it's expensive and bad for the environment if you use the normal disposable materials that we did at Parker Guitars. Really fills up a dumpster.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 i agree ...vac is not really gonna cut it....ill try rubber bands and PC storm water pipe for the outside mold....thanks for the comeback.
Hi Ken, thanks, as always for sharing. Have you considered adding locator pins to your neck veneer bending jig? They would potentially make the centering/ alignment process easier. Centering was less of an issue with this round, compared to the non heated version, but pins may be a good addition. Thanks again, I enjoy each and every episode.
Locating pins have not always served well, and here, I wouldn't consider it for several reasons. Pins won't work well in thin, moist soft wood like this, and will elongate or crack in response to big side loads instead of holding the position as you might expect. Also, part of being a good woodworker is learning how to clamp things that are trying to slip out of position. It's an art, as it turns out, and who am I to turn down an opportunity to practice my art?
hey probably you might know. I once saw this machine, which cuts exactly like a handplane does, I have no idea what it is called though. From what I remember it was an asian woodworker, but that's basically all I know now. It might become relevant for my job in the future, could be a good suggestion for the company to invest in one. Yeah so by now I've found a very big device which wasn't what I was looking for: "Lengthwise Slicer for Veneer by Ligna" It's more of a thicknesser format right, like the dewalt planer devices, something like that. But it basically you put in a beam or whatever, and the machine just slices of a reasonable thin shaving like 0,3mm for instance. If you have some module like that at the end of wood moulders that I work with, the finish quality would sky rocket, is my angle basically
I think there might be three other manufacturers of these, Marunaka, Ryobi, and Hitachi. These can be designed in two ways. One design, to which you may be reffering is made to surface solid wood with a fixed knife, like an upside-down hand plane, in which case the shaving is (absolutely beautiful!!) scrap, and the other is made to slice the wood into a stack of veneer, in which case the sliced part is the desired product, not a scrap. My brilliant local friend and co-conspirator, JohnCameronCabinetmaker.com has a Hitachi "SuperSurfacer FA700" that he keeps sharpened to a fare-thee-well, and this thing works like magic. I think it's 10 1/4" or 26cm wide, and features a a stationary blade holder that can be rotated to any skew angle you want, and so of course the width of the cut is then reduced. You can contract with a company that runs a Marunaka slicer to slice veneer from wood that you supply. Check out RUclips for demos.
The other month someone in ear shot at a guitar show said something about the "secrets" of instrument building at the highest level of the craft. I chuckled and proposed a synonym for the word "secrets" in this context, see if you might agree,.... "decades". Making stringed instruments as a solo act from wooden materials that are worth talking about requires an extremely extensive and deep set of skills that takes even the most gifted builders forever to hone and perfect. Happily, my worklife continues to be an endless series of interesting problems to solve, and opportunities to tune in and notice the importance of "familiar" things long overlooked. Big, Big Fun!
Great series of videos! One thing I wondered: it looks as though you’re experimenting to find the right process yet you have built many guitars. Didn’t you find the right way to do it already?
This is a great question! In my world, it seems true that there is always something new to learn and apply to the process. Some things, even complex aspects of building, now seem under control and fully understood, but I'm always ready to be surprised by the sudden appearance of a new wrinkle, or "trick". Like math, we don't invent, really, we discover! This is why instrument making is so captivating for me, I never get bored, and I consciously try to inhabit what we call "beginner's mind". I can't tell you how many times I've been surprised to stumble across a key understanding in what I believed I had down pat! There's always something new to learn.
This is some killer material, I promise you. A delight to work with, and so reflective. For a light colored wood, it really has a lush, rich luster. The only difficulty I had with it is shown here with the cross grain bending trouble. Bending across the grain demonstrates the extreme difference between the "early" and "late" material. The early wood is so porous that it bends much more easily than the summer growth, hence the long facets I got in the first part. Having employed "every trick in the book", all is now forgiven, and the second part came out perfect. I think I mentioned that I'd heard it also grows in the British Isles, but I can't be sure of this.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 wikipedia says it is cultivated throughout the temperate world. Apparently, the nuts are widely consumed. In Britain it's coppiced, which increases the tannin and makes it weather-resistant for use as posts and fences, Also used to make furniture, barrels, and roof beams (Spain). For bending, have you tried ammonia? I hear it can bend almost any species. Haven't tried it myself...
I have been bending and laminating guitar wood for 20 years. Although it is hard to argue with success I have some suggestions and comments if this is appropriate here.
Now you have my full attention! There's always more to know, even when you've decided that you're satisfied, and think you've got it down. Please share with us!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thanks, that is an attitude I wish I had more. I am sure there are many more experts here but here is the way I would approach it. And by the way, I am immensely impressed by your guitars! Please feel free to totally disagree with anything I write. Maybe we could start a discussion because I don’t think I can be thorough in one post. I don’t think supersoft veneer softener is superior to water in bending with heat. I think it is intended to make veneer flexible in longitudinal and across after the water in the product has left the wood. This allows water based glue work without delaminating. That is the first point, but I don’t think there is any harm in using it. This is how I would approach making the neck shaft. Mill the shaft to the radius ready to accept the veneer. Then I would laminate the veneer, linen and carbon fiber all at once on the shaft. In order to avoid wrinkling or cracking of veneer I would prepare it with supersoft and let it dry. I would then place it in a vacuum bag after applying adhesive and see if it wants to crack. If it does my second attempt would be to use “bending strap” of some sort, maybe a thin strip of aluminum on the outside.
And to clarify my post, I obviously would make a different neck yet make it look and function the same. I would not need to use the linen. It might be different in weight though and the heel is something I would need to work out. I noticed your epoxy layer is variable in thickness. Is that to increase stiffness? Is there an advantage to it over a single thin layer?
It trips me out that you haven't milled a precision aluminum mold for the neck veneer, and then throw the whole thing in a press, as opposed to using the bladder press and wrestling with clamps.
This is so funny, as I just got the tool you described last week, and have been pressing neck veneers in it. I have to say that each method has its strengths and drawbacks, but the 250*F aluminum matched tool sure does cook up a mean part in the press. The bladder press is kinda fun to use, and makes a good part if you learn how to use it well. Also, you only need one veneer per guitar, and how many of these things can one guy make, anyway? Are you a spy?
It’s the veneer softening fluid that I showed you a view of in part 12 / 1, you know, commercial bending juice.. Used to be known as “Joe’s Veneer Softener”
Of course, you and I weren't there, but I'm pretty sure you're right about this. The veneering of necks, often using multiple stripes with contrasting decorative strips was common practice for a very long time. The multiple pieces save the difficulty of getting the veneer to bend properly in one piece at the expense of complexity.
personally I prefer the sounds of the shop and no music... it's relaxing to be in your company without extra distractions
That's how I roll, I wanna hear the material and the cuts!
I'm not gonna mince words here. I love music as much as the next guy but when I'm working, especially with power tools, I listen with both ears wide open to what those tools are saying to me. And besides that haven't we thrashed our ears enough? Some silence is golden 😂
I am blown away with your innovative thinking and level of details in your work.
obsession, just another useful tool
Ken, you're the man. Seeing this sort of innovation in the guitar world is really neat. Seems like a lot of the innovation in guitar building is going into modern archtops, you've got me goin down the rabbit hole!
Thanks! More to come!
Re: background music:
Not necessary. I’d rather hear every squeak, every crack, and every labored breath as you crank clamps down.
Your videos are perfect. Please-do not change a thing. Your narrations are dripping with wisdom and insights.
Every notification of a Parker video means I’m dropping everything to watch it all, start to finish.
Yes, this.
Goodonya, thanks!
Agreed 💯 %
Your wonderful videos are rare for not having music all over them...
I hate it when a great sailboat racing video is ruined by the local out of time rock band. Did their ears get shot off in the war?
It's Our Pleasure.
Thanks Ken. I think the fresher (less) cured epoxy goes along way in allowing a more pliable piece.
Your video series are the best, thorough, honest with calm delivery. Of course wonderful craftsmanship and a beautiful end product. So appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.
Thanks for this nice review! I love doing this.
this stuff is really great, your potentional sacrifice of materials we ourselves wouldn't want to destroy, in the name of science and improving your product. I learn a great deal like this without the financial risks. Thanks
My Pleasure!
How come not more people watch these great workshop lectures?
You're Hired!
This is a regular occurrence. Pearls before swine I'd say
I really enjoy you giving us these insights. Thanks!
My pleasure!
As I could not get this magic veneer softener here, I use hot steam and until now 🤞🏻 without failure. I haven’t bend Italian chestnut, though. After heating I am prebending the veneer in a heated (with heat gun) form by pushing it with a wooden plug. Then I put the form with veneer and a breathable cloth into vacuum bag. I know, I know, Ken. Vacuum sucks!
As I mentioned, each species and cut of wood presents its own challenges. If you were always using something friendly, you wouldn't need all the tricks!
Have you tried making your own softener? I found this recipe online
This is another one
• 4 parts water
• 1 part alcohol
• 2 part glycerine
• 2 parts resin glue
I use borden UL39 resin.
I made some without any glue and with IPA to help flatten some veneer.
Excellent
Thank you! Cheers!
Mastermind… simply inspiring
I'll mention this to my wife, thanks!
I found some instructions for the wood softener, it seems to want one to wet it, and then "Allow the veneers to stand until the surface is free of shiny, wet areas." - It seems they don't really know how long either. 😆
During shaping, it calls for absorbent material against the wood, but your results seem to prove that unnecessary.
Honestly tooling and shop noises are better than music during lulls in dialog (to me).
Love the series!
Thanks, Alan, the softener really works quite well, although as I've mentioned, some veneers can be reliably bent without it, and also without the linen trick.
Thanks for the video, great pleasure to watch as always!
Have you thought of making rabbets in that caul block? As long as you're using the same template for every piece of veneer, it could make it a bit easier to align. Not a remedy, of course, but it may save a couple of nerve cells
I hope I didn't make it look too fussy, but it's really not a big deal to get it to align properly, it's the work of a moment, and the part width is generously oversized, so that's pretty forgiving of a little misalignment.
One issue with your suggestion, if I understand it, might be problems with distortion or cracking by applying cross-grain forces to wet, thin material, as there's not much to push on.
As an aside, isn't the fact that this works at all kind of wonderful?
All I can do is show what's currently working for me, and of course there are an infinite number of ways to do any of these things, a few of which I may have tried and discarded, learned from and forgotten. It's all about getting it done with minimal agony, waste of time and material, and part failure. When I get a recipe that works, I try to give it a gold star and move on. There's always a squeaky wheel or two in any complex series of processes, and those are what I'll be trying to lubricate.
Man those Italian Chestnuts look like medieval weapons.
Let's hope they aren't a danger to anyone.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 in America they look like giant sand spurs to me. In Italy they looked more like the heads fell off maces. 30 years and I can still picture them clearly.
inspirational video.....have you tried bending with a male mold?....vac bag ?....i love all this and i wont be able to sleep tonight!.....thanks Ken....appreciate you giving us all this information!.....breaking out the west system tomorrow!
I suspect that the female mold will be less likely to crack things in most cases, but of course you can try a male mold! Maybe it seems easier to make?
As far a vacuum goes, I reach for it only occasionally, usually when making a one time tool.
The puny pressure of the atmosphere is often not enough unless things are pretty compliant to start with.
I know that lots of folks use vacuum for every other thing, and I have no quarrel with them, It just seems like the last choice for most things. Part of the problem with vacuum is that you can't really inspect things until it's all over.
For bonding cloth, it can be great, but it's expensive and bad for the environment if you use the normal disposable materials that we did at Parker Guitars. Really fills up a dumpster.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 i agree ...vac is not really gonna cut it....ill try rubber bands and PC storm water pipe for the outside mold....thanks for the comeback.
Hi Ken, thanks, as always for sharing. Have you considered adding locator pins to your neck veneer bending jig? They would potentially make the centering/ alignment process easier. Centering was less of an issue with this round, compared to the non heated version, but pins may be a good addition. Thanks again, I enjoy each and every episode.
Locating pins have not always served well, and here, I wouldn't consider it for several reasons.
Pins won't work well in thin, moist soft wood like this, and will elongate or crack in response to big side loads instead of holding the position as you might expect. Also, part of being a good woodworker is learning how to clamp things that are trying to slip out of position. It's an art, as it turns out, and who am I to turn down an opportunity to practice my art?
hey probably you might know. I once saw this machine, which cuts exactly like a handplane does, I have no idea what it is called though. From what I remember it was an asian woodworker, but that's basically all I know now. It might become relevant for my job in the future, could be a good suggestion for the company to invest in one.
Yeah so by now I've found a very big device which wasn't what I was looking for: "Lengthwise Slicer for Veneer by Ligna"
It's more of a thicknesser format right, like the dewalt planer devices, something like that. But it basically you put in a beam or whatever, and the machine just slices of a reasonable thin shaving like 0,3mm for instance. If you have some module like that at the end of wood moulders that I work with, the finish quality would sky rocket, is my angle basically
I think there might be three other manufacturers of these, Marunaka, Ryobi, and Hitachi.
These can be designed in two ways. One design, to which you may be reffering is made to surface solid wood with a fixed knife, like an upside-down hand plane, in which case the shaving is (absolutely beautiful!!) scrap, and the other is made to slice the wood into a stack of veneer, in which case the sliced part is the desired product, not a scrap.
My brilliant local friend and co-conspirator, JohnCameronCabinetmaker.com has a Hitachi "SuperSurfacer FA700" that he keeps sharpened to a fare-thee-well, and this thing works like magic. I think it's 10 1/4" or 26cm wide, and features a a stationary blade holder that can be rotated to any skew angle you want, and so of course the width of the cut is then reduced.
You can contract with a company that runs a Marunaka slicer to slice veneer from wood that you supply. Check out RUclips for demos.
yeah play some of your guitar demos in back, always good
Everyone else said don't, so I'll be hoping that you find and play them for your own amusement!
please no background music, it's great how it is now, just talking and tool noise, you make it look easy, the jigs you use amaze me.
The other month someone in ear shot at a guitar show said something about the "secrets" of instrument building at the highest level of the craft. I chuckled and proposed a synonym for the word "secrets" in this context, see if you might agree,.... "decades". Making stringed instruments as a solo act from wooden materials that are worth talking about requires an extremely extensive and deep set of skills that takes even the most gifted builders forever to hone and perfect. Happily, my worklife continues to be an endless series of interesting problems to solve, and opportunities to tune in and notice the importance of "familiar" things long overlooked. Big, Big Fun!
Music is unnecessary. You provide plenty to keep us engaged as is.
Got it, this seems close to unanimous.
Great series of videos!
One thing I wondered: it looks as though you’re experimenting to find the right process yet you have built many guitars. Didn’t you find the right way to do it already?
This is a great question! In my world, it seems true that there is always something new to learn and apply to the process. Some things, even complex aspects of building, now seem under control and fully understood, but I'm always ready to be surprised by the sudden appearance of a new wrinkle, or "trick". Like math, we don't invent, really, we discover! This is why instrument making is so captivating for me, I never get bored, and I consciously try to inhabit what we call "beginner's mind". I can't tell you how many times I've been surprised to stumble across a key understanding in what I believed I had down pat! There's always something new to learn.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thanks for the insight. Seems to be the right way to do it!
♥
Thanks!
I guess that's what is called Sweet Chestnut, Castanea sativa. Native to southern Europe. Also called Spanish Chestnut, European Chestnut.
This is some killer material, I promise you. A delight to work with, and so reflective. For a light colored wood, it really has a lush, rich luster. The only difficulty I had with it is shown here with the cross grain bending trouble. Bending across the grain demonstrates the extreme difference between the "early" and "late" material. The early wood is so porous that it bends much more easily than the summer growth, hence the long facets I got in the first part. Having employed "every trick in the book", all is now forgiven, and the second part came out perfect. I think I mentioned that I'd heard it also grows in the British Isles, but I can't be sure of this.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 wikipedia says it is cultivated throughout the temperate world. Apparently, the nuts are widely consumed. In Britain it's coppiced, which increases the tannin and makes it weather-resistant for use as posts and fences, Also used to make furniture, barrels, and roof beams (Spain).
For bending, have you tried ammonia? I hear it can bend almost any species. Haven't tried it myself...
Yes, classical on one of your masterpiece guitars! P.S. or Tommy Emanuel if he promises not to use it as a drum 😮
Check out Michael Chapdelaine's tunes on YT, amazing. He cares about every note in a way that is out of this world.
I have been bending and laminating guitar wood for 20 years. Although it is hard to argue with success I have some suggestions and comments if this is appropriate here.
Now you have my full attention!
There's always more to know, even when you've decided that you're satisfied, and think you've got it down.
Please share with us!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thanks, that is an attitude I wish I had more. I am sure there are many more experts here but here is the way I would approach it. And by the way, I am immensely impressed by your guitars! Please feel free to totally disagree with anything I write. Maybe we could start a discussion because I don’t think I can be thorough in one post.
I don’t think supersoft veneer softener is superior to water in bending with heat. I think it is intended to make veneer flexible in longitudinal and across after the water in the product has left the wood. This allows water based glue work without delaminating. That is the first point, but I don’t think there is any harm in using it.
This is how I would approach making the neck shaft. Mill the shaft to the radius ready to accept the veneer. Then I would laminate the veneer, linen and carbon fiber all at once on the shaft. In order to avoid wrinkling or cracking of veneer I would prepare it with supersoft and let it dry. I would then place it in a vacuum bag after applying adhesive and see if it wants to crack. If it does my second attempt would be to use “bending strap” of some sort, maybe a thin strip of aluminum on the outside.
And to clarify my post, I obviously would make a different neck yet make it look and function the same. I would not need to use the linen. It might be different in weight though and the heel is something I would need to work out. I noticed your epoxy layer is variable in thickness. Is that to increase stiffness? Is there an advantage to it over a single thin layer?
It trips me out that you haven't milled a precision aluminum mold for the neck veneer, and then throw the whole thing in a press, as opposed to using the bladder press and wrestling with clamps.
This is so funny, as I just got the tool you described last week, and have been pressing neck veneers in it. I have to say that each method has its strengths and drawbacks, but the 250*F aluminum matched tool sure does cook up a mean part in the press. The bladder press is kinda fun to use, and makes a good part if you learn how to use it well. Also, you only need one veneer per guitar, and how many of these things can one guy make, anyway? Are you a spy?
What is "bending juice," exactly? 🤔
It’s the veneer softening fluid that I showed you a view of in part 12 / 1, you know, commercial bending juice..
Used to be known as “Joe’s Veneer Softener”
I'm sure that is not how the renesance lute makers used to do it
Of course, you and I weren't there, but I'm pretty sure you're right about this. The veneering of necks, often using multiple stripes with contrasting decorative strips was common practice for a very long time. The multiple pieces save the difficulty of getting the veneer to bend properly in one piece at the expense of complexity.
It was done in a bed of a hot sandbag. Done it several times, works perfectly.
No music please! Your skills are more important. I only listen to music when I feel to.
Got it, me too. It's respectful to give the music makers the same amount of attention that they were using when they made it, 110%